Now that people are extra pissed at GW, can we finally push the superior game?
It will never be 2008 again.
>>92509848That's not Saga
>>92509848I mean, if you're some sort of time traveller, I guess.
>>92509854Who is to say that now is not the time for Privateer Press to potentially get back on track to being the potential number 2 Wargaming IP behind GW again? Assuming they can get their shit together.
>>92509848I'm not a necromance
I'm serious, people need to understand that as a tabletop 40k is one of the worst and most stagnant beer and pretzel games there is. If we could get just a handful of people to try out a mechanically compelling game like WMH I think a lot of people would realize they've only been attached to the setting, and with that being mishandled there's nothing keeping them trapped anymoreSeriously I really need a reason to finish painting these dudes
>>92509917>Who is to say that now is not the timeEveryone. Everyone is to say that now is not the time, 'cuz it will *never* be the time again for Privateer Press. They had their chance, they made a good attempt for a while and then they shat the bad so badly it killed their franchise twice over and dragged a bunch of other things along with it into the abyss.They used to have like a 100+ people, now it's around ten doing nothing but running endless Kickstarter grifts with horrible prints of miniatures that haven't evolved in a decade.
>>92509848bring back MKII rules and we talk
>>92510025I'm gonna be honest I've been on deployments since Grymkin came out and playing Mk III with the same group of people for the last 5 years. Did something happen to Warmahordes...
>>92510073jfc anon
>>92509950You can have the best mechanics in the world (which WMH certainly didn't, being interesting but kinda tedious) if your playerbase is known exclusively for being tryhards playing greytide on completely flat terrain with pieces of paper saying 'wood' or 'lake' strewn about. People don't want to get into that, especially given the reputation of the last couple of years.
>>92510073You basically got out just before things started to turn bad, anon. Are you sure you want to destroy your memories of a good game?
>>92510107I'm sorry dude life's weird>>92510118Ok I seem severely out of the loop, I feel like I'm going to regret making this thread
>>92510178Yeah, Privateer Press apparently really shat the bed for third edition, and they're still trying to regain their footing for fourth edition
>>92510268>>92510129Damn that's a bummer, if anyone has time mind giving me the highlights?
>>92509848We could if PP gave absolutely any indication they could make a superior game. The glory days are long gone. The game can't even maintain somewhat regular threads here anymore.>>92510281Well sorry to be the bearer of bad news. If ya were around for the opening of MkIII, you may recall parts of it, but here's the rough n' dirty of it all.>MkII going solid, MkIII announced, hype train starts rolling and good feelings all around>first previews of MkIII revealed during spring of that year>some of it looks good, but some is 'wtf that's a shitty change, but these are playtest previews, right?'>right?>lolno>one big one I personally remember floating in threads from from MkII into III was 'theme forces need to be changed or removed', as there was a tendency for them to either be nearly very strong or very weak, and while certain armies could play without 'em some kinda needed 'em to be on the table (or had to ignore their themes because bad)>as summer hits and MkIII drops, base game is useable but jank. Skorne players killed on impact, their faction is quite literally unplayable out the gate due to rule changes>theme forces are only reinforced further, you more or less need to play theme to do anything>which means you have to buy more minis>oh yeah, we're increasing kit prices, models are gonna stay the same quality (starters actually got worse), and 3rd-party vendors can't offer strong discounts anymore, capped at like 10% or 15%>devs get pissy about people complaining on the forums, just decide to nuke the whole thing>Press Ganger program shut down. I forget exactly, I think it was another company at the time lost a lawsuit, but it'd require PP to pay Press Gangers like employees if they wanted to keep working them and giving direct orders instead of as volunteers>probably forgetting a few other things from that summer>the general here dies off soon after, despite once being incredibly active
>>92509848Yeah, where is it? Behind that piece of shit you posted?
>>92510281Short and simplified version>Warmahordes rides high during 2nd edition>game is decently well-balanced and the rules work>add a bunch of new mini-factions>people go 'ehhh...' over Grymkin, but generally roll with it>people go 'ehhh...' over Riotquest in WMH, but generally roll with it>people go 'ehhh...' over the new plastic, but mostly roll with it>people go 'ehhh...' over the new distribution, but generally roll with it>people go 'ehhh...' over a bunch of other things, gradually turning a bit sour>PP casually torpedoes beloved Monsterpocalypse again>GW releases 40k 8th edition to *ENORMOUS* success>PP panics because they've mostly sat on their asses banking on goodwill and people hating GW>announce 3rd edition Warmahordes hastily>no-one has actually done anything in preparation; there is no plan>new books are gutted, leaving out like half of each army, crucial rules and lore to push the app>playtesting is community-based, ensuring a perpetual civil war in the forums>leadership gets into huge public shit-flinging contests on social media and the forums at the slightest provocation>people discover that balance is fucked to a basically unrecoverable degree by the underlying mechanics>start selling miniatures in blind bags and random lotteries >torpedo Monsterpocalypse *again*>Chinese partner fucks off with print moulds, leaving entire ranges without miniatures>start killing lore-relevant characters just because>fire the entire PressGanger team>one of the bosses takes the company money to roof his house or some shit, I don't quite rememberAnd so on, and so forth. It's really a whole saga.
>>92510755>one of the bosses takes the company money to roof his house or some shit, I don't quite rememberYou sure you aren't thinking of Loren L. Coleman, the CGL boss who embezzled the pay of his employees to fund a deck for his house, then had Herb or one of those other Mormon twats go 'yeah we know we shouldn't have done that, but nothing is going to be done about it' on the OF, then banned anyone who reacted negatively?
>>92510755> Chinese partner fucks off with print moulds, leaving entire ranges without miniaturesRAUGHS
>>92509848First PP needs to get their pair back and go full crazy with the setting and themselves first.
>wanting your hobby destroyed by 40k rejects lol
>>92510281>>92510708>cont>oh yeah, did forget>on other social media they couldn't just nuke, rather than anything positive or productive, PP more or less keeps telling fans that they're fucking retarded and that they need to shut up because they know what they're doing>an astronomic amount of brand loyalty and goodwill died that summer>at some point in the late summer PP finally realized that players were leaving in droves and that they'd burnt their bridges>MkIII largely 'fixed' 6-8 months later but at that point the damage had already been done>shortly after in Britbong land, GW unfucks itself by replacing their CEO, adopting their community program, and launching 40k 8e to massive appeal after years of poor results>balance still an issue>hrm you know what the game needs? a new faction?>Grymkin launched 2017, clearly a dev's passion project, doesn't understand why the rest of the playerbase doesn't love them that much either>never personally saw a Grymkin player during MkIII>game functioning but very much in 'keep applying bandages to problems' mode>financial woes also begin, start offering gacha boxes from the warehouse. Pay X, get 3-4 times X in random minis (sometimes in a theme).>lets also move the operation too>oh boy>No Quarter cancelled after many years>yet another new faction launched in 2018, Crucible Guard, to reasonable popularity>and ya know why we introduced the edgy Grymkin in the first place? they're actually good guys, because they're helping fuck with APOCALYPSE LEVEL EVIIIIL>Infernals introduced as an army in 2019>plenty of characters die during this campaign. Skorne are kicked out of Immoren, Menoth is more or less killed off and/or consumed by itself in a civil war. Convergence teleports most of itself and a bunch of 'refugees' into the distant future with no way back>oh yeah guys thats how our new game, Warcaster: Neo Mekanika starts>meanwhile PP is bleeding money and now bleeding employees>le covid hits
>>92510281>>92511012>cont, last one, I promise>covid hits, lmao>at this point PP is desperate for any kind of money they can scrape up>Warcaster funded more or less entirely via Kickstarter>Warmachine/Hordes players burnt on how the campaign went, many fave charas dead or missing, plot felt hamfisted>eventually gave up on gacha boxes and moved to straight storewide discounts>modern day> PP is about a dozen people in a refrigerator box somewhere in Washington state, down from 100+>hail mary move, we do MkIV>players skeptical but optimistic>move setting forward 20 years or something>Orgoth are introduced as a full faction>ok this might be cool>oh yeah we can't really afford to make minis the old fashioned way anymore so we're gonna 3D print everything going forward>dis gun b gud>we're 'also' gonna charge full price for them all>MkIV has it's initial release>launch minis printed on toasters>that'll be $200 for your starter plskthxFrom what I understand, they've gotten better with their prints, but it really is same shit different day with them. Time and time again, PP shits the bed and then wonders why people keep leaving. Now, admittedly, it seems like with MkIV getting properly off the ground by now they're starting to get some fresh blood back into the game, but for people like me they burnt their bridges and I can't go back. >>92510755>china incidentFffffff, I'd scabbed that one over. It's hardly the first time the Chinese have fucked over a mini game, but those were some really cool+good units, and that more or less sent 'em all into the void.>pic rel, oh how the mighty have fallen
>>92509917I just checked their prices.>1 warjak is 40 bucksI remember way back in 2008 it was a whole thing that PP had a competitive edge over 40k in pricing, but now it's just>expensive plastic>expensive plastic (20% off)And in the era of 3d printing, scalpers dumping unsold stock on ebay, chinese people etc. it feels like hordes is at a disadvantage.
>>92510073>militaryI'm sorry for your lost.
>>92510708>>92510755>>92511012>>92511235Thanks for the rundown anon I appreciate you catching me up to speed. That being said, that's a bummer. I'm gonna try to finish a couple MK III lists and not repeat any of that to people while I invite them to play and pretend it never happened so I can keep living in the past.
>>92510836One would imagine that folks would know that under communism, everything belongs to the working proletariate and nothing to the absent owner.
>>92509917Bitch, these fuckers can't even beat Battletech and half of CGL's playerbase actively fucking hate them
Fuckers killed their game with MKIII. Best Core Rules worst faction balance. They should had released the rules + index with a limited selection of caster/jack/unit. Then releasing the rest a bit a time to have a better balance. I think comunity would had understand if they just explained that a total rebalance was impossible in one go.With 3d printed model they shitted themself. They can't go big. Clearly they are in survival mode and can't grow. The only way I can think PP could return is with a return to the original scope of the game. Skirmish Battle box game + 1 unit and support.
I can acknowledge the unit bloat bloat problem and that something had to be done about it, but at the same time I'm really not interested in starting over from scratch in what is essentially an entirely new game and paying those prices for 3D prints. Also no Cryx.
>>92511401WMH was never model for model cheaper than GW games, it just had a lower initial buy in due to being a smaller model count game.
>>92509848nah
>>92511881Well, that and the chinese have a culture that WILL fuck you over if they think they can get away with it and feel no remorse since its YOUR fault if you get scammed.
>>92509917Because it 2008 they had goodwill and were in an upsing, now they come from having nearly all of the goodwill pissed off and they are surviving thanks to kickstarters.
People keep claiming they're only surviving on kickstarters, but they've only been doing those for the RPG, and haven't done any for their mainline games in years.And they seem to be making regular and consistent sales while also pumping out a lot of mk4 product.They've also been far more responsible and have settled into a far better distribution scheme for Warmachine.Will they ever be as big as they were? Who knows, maybe, maybe not. Not holding my breath. But I'm pretty sure they're going to carve out a pretty comfortable niche. And while Mk4 is the most drastic edition change, it's ultimately the best ruleset they've crafted.
>>92521036>Also no Cryx.Cryx is the next major faction.Followed after that by Trenchers, who are now airborne infantry.
Worth noting that mk4 also got a lot smaller in terms of model count. Most mk4 armies are like 60% smaller than mk3 armies were, and some can get even smaller.Like my old bag that I used to carry two lists can now carry almost 6 lists.
>>92510755>>92511012Don't forget:>Turbo-WAAC players using flat cutouts for terrain and chess-clocks so that the games last no more than 30 mins edge out the casual players, gutting the player base.
>>92510708>I forget exactly, I think it was another company at the time lost a lawsuit, but it'd require PP to pay Press Gangers like employees if they wanted to keep working them and giving direct orders instead of as volunteersIt was a case about WotC and magic judges basically getting paid in booster packs that spooked PP.
>>92509848Can't wait to pay $200 for the worst 3D printed minis you will ever see. Have I mentioned they charge about $10 per mini?
>>92509848All rules systems supported by a company will always eventually suck. Good rulesets don't sell books. They sell A book. Once. That's not enough. Good rulesets don't sell miniatures either. You aren't picking up a new FotM every few weeks. In short, you can't have a good ruleset attached to a profitable company. Find a good fan made system, and be happy with that. It will be higher quality than you'd expect.
>>92509848I wish anon. Kind of biased as a Cryxfag but I loved Warmahordes.Everyone I know quit years ago though
>>92521847>Monopoly>Risk>Clue>UnoYou are wrong. You can't create good rules and balance for autists, not in general, and those are two big differences.
>>92521946Ok, but we are the target audience, and by and large we are rules autists.And those games don't survive by being particularly good, but by being cheap to make, and having gone viral in the population.
>>92521847In a game with longevity that's not necessarily a problem. If rules can change from good to bad in an update, they can change to good again in the next update, if you're willing to wait. If you like the models or fluff of your army enough you can suffer through bad rules for an edition, or hope that a new model release helps improve your exisitng models too with synergy.The game MIGHT have recovered from Mk.III's problems, if they hadn't released Mk.IV and End Times'd the entire range to start again from scratch.
>>92522161The problem with rules autists is that no two autists can agree on anything. Out from the frying pan, into the fire.
>>92522314But part of the End Times was that it didn't get rid of the old range, they kept half of it just to cut costs and rememberries.
>>92510178Bro, as a fellow thagrosh lover, I hate to inform you your army is dead and the game lore so thoroughly raped you'd think GW bought the ip. Honestly, if you love the older editions and have bros playing it, stick in that bubble. The game is functionally dead. You'd have an easier time finding a pick up and play of infinity or malifaux than WMH. Sorry returning to civ life starts with this.
>>92521631Tryhards ruin everythingBattletech has its issues but at least the community HEAVILY frowns on WAACingIt helps that the game is fundamentally unbalanced but produces hilarious emergent stories if you play it casually>>92511881Look, Anon, I'm not gonna bullshit you that real communism hasn't been tried, but you'd have to be functionally braindead to think that China is actually communist.
>>92509848>2000s digislop art>woman warriors>WoW weapons and armor>sneedpunk>implying people will buy into something with good gameplay if the aesthetics are badSee, i cant tell you if the GAME is good or not because i never played it. I could have played it, but the look turned me off.Nothing personal kids
>>92523739The alternative interpretation is that they're running a free, libertarian market economy of liberty where no state can tell anybody what to do, which naturally extends to enforcing contracts.
>>92509848I tried it, the models I got were of poor quality and covered in print lines, I returned them and moved on with my life.
>>92523809To be honest, that's kinda what's happening. China specifically relaxed central planning on corporations and permitted them to own and manage themselves in an attempt to raise money for their faltering economy. Well, that and the government actively encourages companies to screw over international competition.
>>92509950Wargames are meant to be played as beer and pretzel games, unless you're an autistic incel.
>>92523886>Denying the natural desire to get better at a hobby.
>>92509950Thats it. I'm sick of all the "beer and pretzle" narrative bullshit in the mini gaming industry right not. Mini games can be better than that, much much better than that. I should know, I commissioned a 100pt blind water congregration army for $500 and 3 PP lootboxes (about 1/4 a titan) and have been practices with it for years now. I can even place at local tourneys.Privateer press spends years working on a single ruleset, and playtest it up to a million times to produce the finest wargames known to mankind.Warmachine is thrice as competitive as GW games, and the models are thrice as detailed as well. Anything colorscheme a space marine looks good in, a storm blade looks better in. I'm pretty sure a banethrall could bisect a great unclean one in a single strike.Ever wonder why GW doesn't produce models in the PNW? Thats right, they were too scared of PP. Even in journeyman leagues, pressgangers unleashed top of turn 1 combos on people with GW gear to make sure their understanding of page 5 was feared and respected.So what I am saying is that PP is the best minis company in the world. You can't deny it.
>>92509848Gonna be honest, all I remember is choosing the Menoth then having every local be against a Hordes player and it never felt fair. Oh look all their big guys can take an assload of action to fuel spells. Oh, b-but rage, that just gives them another free melee on you. Oh no, your robots can't handle water, so better hope it's not a terrain, teehee. Hey, what if we just kept releasing fuck off huge centerpiece units that are basically mandatory and expensive as fuck?Man it'd be wild if we started to price creep up to GWs levels despite that being a big selling point wouldn't it?
>>92528267Honestly, I feel like Menoth was poorly designed.Denial isn't fun to play against, and having a slow melee army that struggles with terrain is a little frustrating to play.The fury mechanic also just plain works better with how rocket tag the game could be at times.
>>92522314I see it the other way around: A company might make a good ruleset, and might make good minis, but eventually they'll do something stupid to move more product.And if it's something stupid enough, it will sink the game. The whole model is broken from the start.
>>92509848I had the red russian ones starter set, and it's in a box somewhere around my house. Do people actually still play this?
>>92509917>Why not now?1. GW are drinking the poison chalice of the modern audience but have not slurped enough yet to alienate the core diehards of the fanbase and the returning players of the 7th exodus. Yes they are starting to fly a little too close to the sun these days but it's nowhere near the shit show that the DLC-esque data sheet era was.2. PP lacks the capability to showcase what warmahordes can be. GW at the least puts on large dioramas and imagination capturing scenics with their promotional shit. PP has nice models, but it's rare to see a full game on a fully 3D terrain board. Most of the terrain is edge based with flatlands or open fields in the middle and it just doesn't do the game justice.3. Segway from point 2: the lore itself is quite inaccessible for new players - especially today as several major events have happened that need an insane amount of background context. That's not to say it's empty, but compared to 40k with it's sheer amount of secondary sources and routes to the narrative PP have a tough task to court new players.4. The implications of the game. Like it or not GW is a "safe space" hobby where people with fragile egos can play out power fantasies and not get called a pussy. Warmahordes encourages competitive mindsets and behaviours, encourages optimization and cookie cutter choices and has little to no room for self-insertion: the truth is alot of "players" can't handle being rail roaded down that pathway so will naturally gravitate towards the safer option to protect their egos. Literally one of the biggest hurdles of warmahordes is you need to be able and struggle to "git gud" the traditional way, rather than rely on whining until your army is fotm or gets a game breaking release.
Nope I'm just going back to older editions with my old buddy. Any recommendations? We've been looking at 5th and below.
>paying full price for 3d printed ministhis is why warmachine mk4 will die. either sell the stls+rules digitally or go back to resin casting
>>92509848Id would shill Battletech, but CGL Retards Pulled the same shit GW did today almost 2 weeks ago by pandering to trannies, and Tex can't even comment against because they now have a Cancel Force behind it against people who shits on their decisions now, plus the entire Arch situation.Funny how the Tables turned faster than Slash flipping them
>>92509848Isn't that game dead? Like "miniatures are no longer in production" dead?
>3d printed minis >shittiest pauldroncore aesthetic without even ancient John Blanche art to carry it>autistic ruleset>TCG tier communityI am so happy that Privateer Press sank this shit.
>>92529030The capitalist is a very simple machine - he always bends towards money.
>>92529185And the paypiggies bend towards buying more of the same shit they complain about.
>>92527579I actually lol'dWell played, sir or madam
>>92509848I’m playing Bolt Action so I have a legitimate opportunity to play literal Nazis.
>>92510708I genuinely regret selling my pinned-and-epoxied, beautifully painted, 1st edition Cygnar metals in a moment of financial stress.I replaced them with shitty resins later but it just wasn’t the same.
>>92510755You forgot the utterly irredeemably awful turn based Warmachine computer game.
>>92529227If they weren't invested, they wouldn't complain.
>>92529185IS not capitalism, is Pure Corporativism mixed with Gramci, they hate capitalism, but they love some corporate power above even the people and the government.
its a shame i never got to play monpoc but i heard the meta was super wacky once they started with unique buildings. do you think they will ever bring it back?seems like monpoc minis werent as detailed as warmahordes, which would help with stl shits.
>>92509848>Now that people are extra pissed at GW, can we finally push the superior game?Sure. I'm down. Shouldn't you post an image of the superior game to start your thread, though?
>>92529795>not REAL capitalism
>>92531823I mean, it is superior to 40k. So are most other things, but I digress.
>>92521631>Turbo-WAAC players using flat cutouts for terrain and chess-clocks so that the games last no more than 30 minsThats a bonus, not something to complain about. The whole point of WMH was to be competitive and to be an asshole. That's why page 5 existed. We were doing nothing wrong.
americans are so uncreative, literally the most gimicky shit ever
>>92528710>Segway
>>92519994It’s funny, I thought the 3d printed model was a good idea at first. “What’s the problem? That’s a great way to get new players into the game.” Then I saw they weren’t selling STLs, those dumb motherfuckers were selling 3d prints like they were a god damn Etsy store.
>>92532277Checked but I can’t say their spin on things was poor. Trust me, I may be a biased American but I’ve seen other nations spin on things. Europe and Asia are so bad I can’t believe it, and then somehow everywhere else is even worse lol.Makes “blander” American products seem extremely tasteful (not counting all of modern day gay shit).
>>92531956Correct. None of the systems can be implemented on 100% because none of the authors took into account all the nuances, so all systems are corrected by reality. And what separates a bad system from a good one is how quickly this system adapts to reality through compromises. In this regard, democratic capitalism has proven itself best.
>>92529185It is just the good old "we seem to have reached the cap in our growth, time to either expand to new demographics at expense of those who already bought our products or to invent new ways to squeeze even more money from the paypiggies" moment because the graph needs to go up.
I wonder what's it like to work for a dying company well past it's glorydays like PP? What do they even spend the their days doing?
>>92532197>The whole point of WMH was to be competitive and to be an asshole.True! That's why most people were happy to let it be the containment game.
>>92536735I wonder if it would have caught on if it wasn't for the competitive autism. Miniatures games should tell a story. There should be a cool mission, epic duels, that sort of thing. None of the WM games I observed actually gave off the vibe of being Steampunk WWI.
>>92540564Well, it's not that they "should", but most systems with staying power let you enjoy them in multiple forms. If you build your playerbase on tournament autism alone, well...
>>92521567>Followed after that by Trenchers, who are now airborne infantry.Wut?
>>92540564As someone who used to be a warmachine tryhard, that competitive mindset people pin on warmachine is now the norm across most games rather than the exception. I've played close to a dozen different games since quitting mk3, and most people you'd see at organized game days or events have the same competitive mindset now. Even dross like AoS has a very strong "competitive" community even though the rules are barely functional. The best you can hope for is that the guys in your local community are cool dudes. Casualfags are the worst because they're usually just as competitive as the tryhards, but they go out of their way to play bullshit, then whine very loudly when they lose. I love narrative bros, but if you want to be competitive too, then just own it.
>>92509848>Let's do everything they did but worse and without the meme inertia of spess mahreens.
>>92534257Grifting on kickstarter
What's the difference between Warmachine and Hordes?
>>92542942Nothing. You spam infantry and laugh at the the noob playing robots and monsters.
>>92542176Compfags are in every game and everyone tries to win but there's something particularly aggrivating about dealing with them in WHM and Warhams vs say Legion and Battletech.
>>92542942Focus and Fury. To get warjacks to do special actions, the warcaster must spend points from his Fury pool. To get Fury, the warlock must make the creatures do special actions, or leech it from the damage the creatures already have.
>>92543272>To get warjacks to do special actions, the warcaster must spend points from his Focus pool.Fixed my own typo...
>>92509950What's this shit? I thought Warmachine was going to use up the world's supply of pewter because they were so hardcore and metal?
>>92543177I think that's just your personal bias, desu. most of the people clowning on PP in this thread are using 10 year old memes and barely have a clue what's actually gone wrong, and to the company's credit, what's gone right. I have lots of reasons to distrust PP, and I'll begrudgingly admit they've made some good calls with mk4.
>>92542942The underlying system of how the warcaster/general runs their army.Warmachine uses warcasters, who have a certain number of focus they to use and distribute to their warjacks during a turn.Hordes has warlocks, who use fury. Fury is largely identical to focus in usage, but instead of distributing it, they instead harvest it from warbeasts in their army who generated it in the previous turn.Hordes requires more of a balancing act turn by turn, and is hurt by attrition more because as they lose their warbeasts during a fight they lose their sources of fury. Hordes are also more reliant on their control range, because you can't generate fury outside of it.Warmachine isn't as tethered to their own control range(but it's still super important) and losing their pieces means the warcaster has more to do themselves, but their units can't overlord themselves when you need them too, so they're less flexible.>>92543113Warjacks and Warbeasts are the strongest they've ever been in mk4. The only thing keeping them from just being spammed to high hell is the new scenarios.
how does this game play? i like the warjack figures.
>>92544127Lists center around your caster(for jacks, it'd be a warcaster), their selection of jacks, and then extra units, solos, and support pieces.In general it's as other people have noted, sort of like a wargame version of MTG, and heavily focused around syngernies and combos. Your warcaster heavily dictates your playstyle, as they come with a personal profile(some are melee focused, some ranged, some magic, and some support-y), a selection of spells that can either do damage, debuff enemies, or buff allies, and a once per game feat that is intended to have a huge effect on the game state.In general, your goal is to stack up your combos to destroy the enemy force before they destroy yours, though you should always play with a scenario in order to have that as a win condition as well. Notably, losing your caster is an immediate loss, so a huge chunk of turn by turn gameplay consists of having them do as much as possible without leaving them open to being killed.Mk4 faction jacks are customizable, you pick a head(for a special rule), then a selection of arms for their weapons and additional protection. The new faction they just previewed instead pick their weapons after the game has started, but we have almost zero info about that.>>92541578https:// home.privateerpress.com/2024/04/ 16/introducing-the-gravediggers/The advent of the airships at the very end of mk3 has progressed to the point that they're now using them to deploy their Trenchers.
>>92544203their store kind of sucks to browse.. anywhere better i can see available models?also how is the general balance? are any factions so busted that house rules are needed to make the game playable?how long does a typical game take?
>>92544399Warmachine's pretty damn balanced at high level play, but learning it can feel like there's a ton of bullshit that has no answer(there's usually an answer, but it can take a lot of experience). It's really important to play with a scenario, because without it shit can get stupid. A full sized, 100 point game is 2 hours by the clock. Figure 3-4 though if you're bullshitting and having fun.App is free and has full rules for everything, that might be the best place to look. I can do a quick rundown on the mk4 factions. I'll do the warcaster factions for now, since you said you were interested in the jacks.>Storm LegionElite infantry intended to be backed up by jacks. Tends to lean towards the defensive side of things, and can struggle to hit hard themselves compared to other factions. Lots of powerful guns.>Winter KorpsStrong ranged presence backed up by heavy jacks and heavy infantry. They're tough to kill and can hit really hard, but for a ranged faction they have limited answers to specific anti-ranged tech.>DuskElite infantry faction, their jacks are more about anchor pieces and tech. They have insane amounts of offensive capability both in melee and range, and a ton of rules to ignore all sorts of enemy defensive tech. They are, however, lacking in accuracy, and can struggle against hard to hit foes.>OrgothOrgoth like the alpha, they have a lot of decently powerful infantry and warjacks that they can buff up pretty well. However, their costs mean they need to hit first, and while they're tough, they lack the ability to recover damage they take effectively, so they can struggle to win drawn out games.These are basic overviews, however, the caster choice has as much, if not more infulence on gameplay than the faction. In Cygnar, for example, Athena is a defensive brawler, making all her stuff very durable, while Wolfe is the only one with an overt damage buff that makes him way more dangerous offensively.
So are Retribution of Scryah and Skorne not in the game anymore, as of MK.IV?
>>92545019Skorne were pushed back across the abyss by Ret during the Claiming after Goreshade betrayed the Skorne. They haven't said anything about them showing up in the wargame, but the RPG side of things is doing a series of splatbooks about them covering what happened after mk3(Requiem, the setting, is 5 years after mk3 ended, while mk4 is 10 years after).Ret no longer exists as a cohesive nation after things went bad, with Dusk replacing them. However, a good chunk of Iosans are still around, and the cadre for Dusk is former mage hunters working with them called Ghosts of Ios.
>>92509848>Now that people are extra pissed at GW, can we finally push the superior game?No, because that game is dead.Privateer Press had a chance to lock in their #2 spot years ago. But instead, they fumbled the bag, and they have been in a constant loop of fumbling the bag ever since.I have been playing these games since MK1. Back when all the models were made of metal, back when your starter set was 2-4 warjacks and a warcaster.And I have watched this company fuck up and fuck up and fuck up time and time again. Every chance they've had to make a big push, they've made the wrong choice. The single greatest fuck up was seeing that WoTC was getting sued by a bunch of judges, panicking, and killing their community outreach program. Because that's the kind of company that Privateer Press is, they will overreact to any stimuli, positive or negative, and make the absolute worse choice. Genuinely, the best thing that COULD happen to privateer press is someone else buying them out.
>>92510708>>Press Ganger program shut down. I forget exactly, I think it was another company at the time lost a lawsuit, but it'd require PP to pay Press Gangers like employees if they wanted to keep working them and giving direct orders instead of as volunteersJudges for Magic: The Gathering were starting to talk about how they should be getting paid for their judging - that this was work (albeit contract work) that they should be getting paid for rather than volunteer hobbying that they would sometimes get non-monetary compensation for.WoTC, being a smart company, settled the lawsuits and then created a system by which they basically divested themselves of the judges program - which is now its own thing.Privateer Press saw that these lawsuits happened, freaked out, and decided to burn the whole press ganger system down.
>>92543301I think I'm one of like five or six people in north America still making pewter minis. Pewter is like 22 bucks/lbs now, still good for small runs. That said, I haven't seen any of their printed stuff but back in the day I'd seen big resin casts from PP with atrocious amounts of mold shift, like 1/8"
>>92545172>WoTC, being a smart companyNothing smart about WotC, they got into that situation in the first place by giving the judges worthless cards several tours in a row, and their "solution" basically ended competitive MtG.
>>92545172Unpopular opinion but most press gangers fucking sucked and just put in the bare minimum running events so that they could collect their PP store funbucks and go home. One of our PGs for early mk2 didn't even bother setting up tables. He would just show up, play board games off to the side, and occasionally call out pairings. Most of the people who carried the community, PGs or not, continued to do so after the system was axed. The move was definitely poor optics, but in the long run, I think it just purged some players who barely contributed to their local groups aside from showing up to play, if even that.
>>92521631How is 40k not flat cutouts for terrain at this point to you? The L shaped ruins are just decoration, the rectangle card under them is basically all that matters at this point.
>>92521567>>92544203>>92541578That is very odd. But I guess if they can dig in so quickly why NOT drop them?
>>92544596So do people get upset when you do non lore color schemes or "your dudes" or is it encouraged?
>>92546265It's a stupid myth that's never been true. You can go on the various social media sites for Warmachine and find dozens of non-standard color schemes. People love it.
>>92540564the problem i have with the whole competitive vs casual thing is that every casual is always just a drop of sweat away from becoming a tryhard. like i've seen players go into games thinking saying "i'm just here to play and have fun" only to hide some sneaky waac in their list.like i don't get why it's so hard for people to just admit they want to win, because winning is fun?
>>92546318how about kitbashing and the like? assuming it's just for aesthetics and not some sort of rules bending?also is there any TTS community?
>>92546353Kitbashing is a bit weird. For warjacks and warbeasts, especially now, the only way to tell them apart is by their arms, head, and other attachments, as there are specific stats attached to each. The general guideline for this is that if you do any changes, they need to look roughly similar to the original, IE, axe for axe, spear for spear, etc.Beyond that, it's majority of PP parts and you need to be able to tell what it originally was. This is all for events and such, casually? Do whatever the fuck you want, long as your opponent knows what it is.There's a guy who uses silly little chickens to convert all his stuff, and I've never seen anyone be anything but supportive of it.
call me when the game get trollbloods back that aren't pirates.
>>92546594Likely not this year, but it will happen. The actual faction is Southern Kriels, and Brinebloods are just the first army for them. They also got jungle frogs as their cadre, which should be out next month(if PP doesn't fuck their schedule up again).
>>92546337>>92542176I remember some of the 40Kers back in the 00's acting like they didn't care who won or self-deprecating. One guy wrote a name on the base of every imperial guardsman so he'd have "something to mark their graves" when he lost. But most shifted into competitive mode as the match wore on. I was more on the WHFB side of things and we considered ourselves better than the 40Kers and Warmachine players. We also rationalized that we weren't competitive because we didn't use the cheesiest combos(eg multiple hydras, conga flagellants, gunlines) but we definitely knew how to stomp our enemies. I remember a kid leaving a tournament in tears. I suppose I would argue that 2000's competitiveness didn't hold a candle to modern competitive autism like mirrored terrain for fairness.
>>92546796But that really is a cherry-picked example. That's a picture from a competitive tournament.
Me and my friends were thinking about getting into Warmachine, any suggestions before we make the jump?
>>92546804Probably. I mean, I realize this is anecdotal but I remember people being more willing to experiment and have fun back in the day. When Cities of Death dropped we were all making terrain and trying out the different strategems like sending guys to infiltrate through the sewers. For Halloween we set up a spooky table and had everyone trying to survive waves of undead. One guy made a WWI inspired trench board. Nowadays everyone seems more antisocial and afraid to try new things. I don't think I saw a single game at the LGS where people were testing the boarding action rules that came up a couple years ago.
>>92546816For a good while, ignore anyone online who's talking about the factions. I don't just mean here either. Lot of people have tons of shit to say about the game, but between your groups inexperience(if you're all new) and people sometimes being idiots, a good chunk of it won't matter to you. Figure out the basics first before you're worried about all the complicated shit, then you can worry about shitters talking up or down a certain faction.Adopt scenario early. I can't stress this enough. Steamroller stuff might be a bit too much, but the paid subscription gets you access to a bunch of random scenarios they've published in the app. It doesn't need to be right away, but once you're at 50-75 point games, you should really think about it. Scenarios are an important part of the game, and they keep some stupid shit from working.Warmachine is a pretty tight rules set, with very deliberate interactions. There's almost zero ambiguity in how things are resolved, if you're confused about a specific rule or interaction, look it up on their forums or find somewhere to ask. There's almost certainly a very specific way it should be resolved.
Where can I read the new lore? I quit in the beginning of Mk3. Now I am curious what happened in the iron kingdoms.I liked the old expansion and forces of books
>>92546876Partially its a cost issue. But its also that these companies are no longer hobby companies - they're toy companies now, first and foremost. Anything that doesn't sell more toys is useless, so there's no encouragement of getting creative and kitbashing.
>>92509848> pic unrelated
>>92510025Oh shut the fuck up you fucking faggot. Go buy another box of space marines and jerk off in the corner. You are a fucki g retard that does nothing but bitch and shelled out for some tyranids.
>>92510118Yeah let’s play the amazing experience that is 40k. Where you can have all the terrain you want but it doesn’t do anything since everything has true los and 48” guns. Warmachine has flat terrain because the terrain actually matters and people actually play it. Who has time to lug around giant boxes of terrain?
>>92511460That guys just being a butthurt faggot. Buy some models and play the game.
>>92547559All the lore is through the app now. It's like $3 dollars a month or something. That gives you the lore and the campaign stuff.
>>92511460I like how few models I'm seeing on that table.
>>92546804Which is pretty standard 40k cope. You can have a beautiful looking table but it's non-functional. Unless you put up those giant boxes in the center there is almost no capability to hide anything. So every table is essentially a giant flat plane with unlimited shooting.Even worse the terrain offers you no benefits. You can't keep anyone alive by hiding them in terrain. You can't hide any models from shooting.It's basically just line your shit up and hope the other guy doesn't shoot you off the table.Then you point out how fucking stupid the rules are and some retard says "it's beer and pretzels bro."
>>92546547>I've never seen anyone be anything but supportive of itI think that guy is a weirdo who makes gay jokes, but I don't tell him that. I guess if it wasn't facebook I likely would have chimed in with "your jokes aren't funny fag"
>>92545320When did PP have that kind of mold shift? Most of the resin I got from them during MK3 was really good. One thing they definitely do (which I think is a fair critique) is pump out a lot of low-qc shit when it's time to get the big distributor orders filled. Then they rely on their mispack system to clean it up. I get it. Small company wants to get the bills paid so throwing some misprints in the box and calling it done gets the order out the door. They will make it right. I tell them straight up to replace shit if I don't like the resin or it has even a small miscast. They replace it every time.It's not ideal but I can see why it happens. To their credit they actually got way better at printing and worked on the resin formula.It went from being objectively abysmal to really good in about a year.
>>92528710Honestly, even just ignoring the "current year" stuff gw is doing, 10th edition is kind of a piece of shit. From a gameplay perspective it's boring, tedious garbage. The balance is ok, but in a bad way, where nothing on the board feels cool or special. My friend and are are considering going back to 8th index, or just another wargame altogether.
>>92549381Which edition are you talking about?All my 10th ed games have been miserable no LOS slogs because of how the LOS rules currently work. There's no point in taking any guns with a range greater than 18" because you'll never see anything further away than that, so every game just ends up being a napoleonic war simulator.
>>92509917>Assuming they can get their shit together.Hahahahah
>>92546876I mean, I generally want a game system with a standardized, balanced, set of rules that everyone follows and knows going into the game. Expansions like cities of death are cool and all, but I don't really see the point in learning those rules if nobody is going to play them except for me and one friend.
>>92546594>>92546608I've been wondering what the next Southern Kriels faction will be. I feel like Vietnam-era US soldiers would be a good theme. It fits the tropical theme of the Brinebloods and Bullcroaks, and reflects the militarized nature that the United Kriels were moving toward near the end of Mk. 3.
>>92528710>GW are drinking the poison chalice of the modern audienceGW has constantly been fucking chasing trends. Are you new here?
>>92545545Okay let me rephrase: comparatively smart.WoTC didn't IMMEDIATELY destroy its competitive scene.
>>92555152I mean, the PG program getting destroyed didn't fuck up their competitive scene either. I've got the timelines blurred in my head, but I'm pretty sure Warmachine only got bigger after the program got sunsetted. It was all the other shit that started hitting hard.
Where the fuck am I supposed to buy models for this game? the official website lists like 2 for each faction
>>92556685Old stuff is out of print. You're looking for the mk4 section.
>>92544203>https://home.privateerpress.com/2024/04/ 16/introducing-the-gravediggers/Alright I'm digging their new looks, kinda gives me hope for possible future Orgoth army since I'm not really a fan of their new look and miss faces being everywhere
>>92557576I don't hate the new Orgoth look, but so far, its definitely a faction that as its progressed, the more I've liked their stuff. The cadre and colossal are a lot better in my opinion than the initial showing.
>>92557594Yeah it makes sense that they don't look the same after a millennia and their warjacks ain't bad, but when I look at Horruskh's regular sculpt and face variant, Thousand Faces just stands out a lot more
mfw the army with the cool shooty jacks also has to be the army with the russian aesthetic i hate.
>>92557576Next army is supposed to be a fury army, but we know nothing beyond that. And in the cadre they just got, between the fell blades and the shield on the new solo, they've got more of a faces vibe than the Sea Raiders do.>>92557619Khador is pretty shooty, but you've got some decent jack gunlines in Cygnar and Orgoth as well. Khymera can also build some pretty nasty gun platforms.
>>92557607I think the Thousand Faces version, the joke behind it aside, is a better updated look for them. They could've easily worked in the faces motif a lot clearer, while having the newer armor. I think the reason the Cursebound works a lot better for me is because there's a lot more recognizable Orgoth stuff on them, like the soul-faces on the cursed weapons, the faces on the armor plates, and the more heavy metal cover viking style armor. I'm hoping the next army keeps following that line with the armor.
>>92557652I think its just that initial orgoth they sent out kinda look like their armor was made by fucking farrow, which made a lot of details real murky
>>92509848Hasn't this shit been dead for over a decade? I feel bad anon, seemed like a cool enough setting. Certainly more engaging than Infinity from the first impressions alone, more or less the only non GW game I hear about these days.
>>92557717The game was at it's height around a decade ago.
>>92509917>warmahordes>good after all the sweaty tryhard compfags ruined it by demanding the developers cater to them and ONLY themLmfao, your game is dead and you won't get new people to stomp on in a fucking toy soldiers game to pretend you matter in the world.
>>92531956its literally not. The capitalist response would be to expand to other parts of he hobby, or even a new industry, or license out your IP to other mediums. That way, even if its bad, people are not upset since your 'core' lore and world is untouched. And if its good, you can incorporate it. Literally get payed to not take a risk. 40k did this to good success with videogames.What we are seeing now, where they want to twist their entire product line to fit a 'universal, modern mold" Is the exact opposite. They are taking risk for VERY little payment, its been proven this bullshit leads to losses. But they are doing it anyway, because they are being pressured to by outside influence and parts of their own staff.
It had its chance but the company fucked themselves by going all in on meta bullshit and a surprising lack of marketing.That said, I still wish i got to play the iron kingdoms RPG, it still seems solid.
>>92557957Which one? The 3.0, 3.5, 2d6, or 5e version?
>>92509848I dunno, I kinda just hate their art. Like, look at those fucking whip hands.its got the same issue as AOS, when everything is fantastical and over the top, nothing is.
>>92557946You've got your "it isn't capitalism unless I find it palatable" cope and you've got your "woke doesn't sell" cope, and you think your two wrongs are canceling out to a right but the truth is you're just failing to cope.
>>92557969the 2d6. I didnt even know they had a 5e version, must be awful. Still have the core rulebook pdf saved in my folder after all these years come to think of it.
92557972Yeah yeah, not today anon im to tired to give a shit.
>>92557986I mean, it's largely colored by your opinion of 5e. Within the context of 5e I think it's pretty interesting though, if for no other reason than it's got concrete rules for building magic items and mechanika that are way more interesting for players.
>>92558004Everyone can tell that you don't give a shit. If you had any dignity then this would stop you from posting, but it doesn't, you're a bad actor and you aren't sorry.
>>92558016well thats a surprise, but a pleasant one.
>>92557810Go make another 40k lore thread you no games faggot.
>>92509848Every wargame starts pulling same stupid shit as gw as soon as it gets remotely big. Wasrmachine did it too.
>>92558039They even kept in the part where making traditional magic weapons can straight up kill you.
Do people get upset if you use non official minis? I like the look of about half the army is want to play but the other half I can't stomach.
>>92563370Not really, and even if someone were upset: the community is not big enough to really turn their nose to someone. Proxying your whole army is very common especially with Mk4 to people who want to try out different armies without buying said armies.
>>92509848Is Privateer Press recovering? If not I'll just go to Mantic and play Kings of War instead with a mantic models army with some proxies sprinkled in because I don't have a 3D printer.
>>92566149If you aren’t going to buy anything why do you give a shit lol? Go play kings of war with proxies then.
>>92558039Don't let it be, the actual mechanics of the classes and monster math is a off by a wide margin, so trudging forward, eyeball as best you can.
>>92566149Seems to be, my LGS recently started taking pre-orders on their stuff, so there is some interest
>>92509854dosent mean we cant play like its 2008
>>92567297Some of their monster stuff is off, but the classes are fairly intentionally off, because Mechanika is a huge part of how they play.Also, honestly, I'd rather the new classes be a bit below the curve than above it, especially since several of the classes are honestly simply more interesting to play. Warcaster and Warlock are both classes that are fairly weak at first blush, for example, and they have some issues, but a lot of their power comes from a level of system mastery that a huge chunk of players simply aren't used to 5e asking for.But again, the core issue here is 5e. And I'd have loved them to keep going with the 2d6 system, for all it's flaws, but RPGs built like that simply don't sell.
>>92509848>play WM to get away from the DIE sloplmao
>>92509848The models are shit and the lore is shit. I'm glad it died.
>>92509848I played back in 1st and 2nd. But I heard they squatted Menoth so I guess Ill stay out.Shame really as I loved their aesthetics and Kreoss was my main man since day 1.
>>92568123One can still hope, if not protectorate, which faded into the background, then maybe Zu menites who seem to be doing great
>>92568270I will call them zum-zums.
>>92509950>beer and pretzel games>bad
>>92568270We're probably getting the Immoren Menites after last few updates on Menoth, given the Zu colony been sending out supplies back to Protectorate, and the Protectorate themselves getting more and more active in the lore despite their weakened state. That said not any time soon, right now the focus is to get every released faction to have 2 armies and 1+ cadre before any other factions get introduced. The only second army we don't know about at the moment are Cryx based.
>>92569378Expect them to be menites in name only, with none of the original iconography because the retards at PeePee now hate having a faction themed after crusading christianity and jihadists.
Still playing Mk III Brawlmachine regularly, still luv it, simple as
>>92569378I would be very surprised if the second Cryx isn't the pirates.
>>92509848>the superior gameThis is not a pic of Confrontation *or* Ragnarok.
>>92509848Man that's a weird picture for a thread that's supposed to be about Ronin/En garde!But in all seriousness. I love convergence in every possible way, Vectors are so cool. I just want them to get a mk4 faction thingie. I will buy brand new minis I don't care....I have 30 points of Circle of Oribos and Convergene of Cyriss that I want to get a buddy to play with me. I guess I just love CoC
>>92574218Satyxis/Black Fleet army with a Bane cadre makes the most sense to me
>>92542942warmachine is accounting. you get a budget every turn and after allocate it accordinglyhordes is trying to keep your engine from overheating while you have a radiator thats about 1/3d the size it needs to be, and if your engine overheats it eats you
>>92546796>Anon is a FB player and says they werent cheesy waacfags>Anon is lying
>>92557971Maybe you are just boring
>>92540564>douchemachine>as if 40k and it's players weren't in your face douches themselves pot calling kettle black
MKII was great.It doesnt go up from here. It's over guys.
Man 35 points was COMFY back in 2014. We had 25+ players every week and huge steamrollers
I never even looked at rules for warmachine but occasionally browsed the models and always thought this guy was cool.Were colossals a gamebreaking thing when they were introduced? How were they received?
>>92584374They were terrible when they first dropped(minus the Stormwall, the Cygnar one), but they had some major benefits in mk2 that made them worth taking for some people. The Conquest, the first of the Khador colossals, got taken mostly because Khador hated having multiple warjacks, and a colossal solved that issue.There was a lot of major issues with colossals when they first dropped, though the standout example was Gorman. Imagine a 4 point solo in a 75 point game making your 20+ point warjack worthless. And the best solution was to bring your own Gorman because rules are hilarious.There's been some ups and downs since then, but generally colossals are valuable because they ignore a lot of control effects and centralize buffs and support into a single, high value package and they usually bring powerful and unique rules, but they're also almost always easier to kill then a comparative amount of infantry or regular jacks for the same cost, and their offensive output is often overall lower as well.
>>92584436Colossals in both Warmachine, and 40k, seem to be something that's really hard to balance without them being either too good or really bad. Seems with Mk4 PP simply threw their hands in the air and made them not allowed in lower pt games.
>>92584436Interesting to hear maybe I'll get one if I find a local group, I always love painting big models. Also like this clunker too
>>92584505I mean, I'd say in mk4 they're pretty balanced overall. All warjacks/warbeasts went up in value in the edition shift, and the lower volume of attacks is still a concern but no longer a crippling one. Mostly they're not allowed in lower point games because they're often simply polarizing at that point level, because it's hard to bring the correct things to kill them. 56 boxes at ARM19 is often very doable to remove when you can bring stuff to crack armor, but at lower point games it's usually not enough.And colossals are generally(but not always) fairly bad at killing each other.
>>92584516Fair warning, they're generally specialized pieces and you generally want to pair specific casters with them. This varies from piece to piece and from faction to faction, but they sometimes don't slot in with specific warcasters at all.
>>92584436>>92584284>>92584232Yeah my Woldwrath was garbage. The only few wins I had at an event were with eBaulder in MK2
>>92584548The ones introduced in MK4 seems to be better to kit out for taking out other Gargossals. The Mastodon has quite a few high power weapons, with Crit Shred on a POW 23 axe, while the Garlghast can get 2 POW 20 fists with effectively Weapon Master, and the Crit Amputation on the one head can really mess up Gargantuans.>>92584624Gargantuan have always been a lot weaker than Colossals. Just ignoring that warlocks get more use out of multiple beasts than a caster does with multiple jacks, for some reason, PP made most of them just generally weaker.
>>92585801>Gargantuan have always been a lot weaker than Colossals. Just ignoring that warlocks get more use out of multiple beasts than a caster does with multiple jacks, for some reason, PP made most of them just generally weaker.I don't know if that's true anymore. The Hydra stands up as being one of the best models in the game for sheer amount of work it can accomplish, while also rocking an extremely powerful animus.And the others generally got buffed cards and effects. The Woldwrath, for example, is flat rocking an AOE4 gun, so it can eat an entire unit by itself. And sacred ward is far more powerful for huge bases now.The mk4 colossals are better geared thus far for doing damage, that's true. Though the gharlghast is going to have serious problems making it into melee.
>>92585998Yeah, despite really liking the model, I'm not that impressed with the rules for the Gharlghast. It's a really good target for Redline, since it doesn't care about the D3 damage, and combined with Pain-maddened can get scary fast but the lack of movement tricks in Orgoth hurts the use of that. I think I'd rather take 2 heavies instead.
>>92586064>It's a really good target for Redline, since it doesn't care about the D3 damageRedline is Warjack only.
>>92586520Well shit.
I don't know whether to start Orgoth or Khymaera, or wait for Cryx.
>>92509854Who says you can?DO WHAT YOU WANT CAUSE A PIRATE IS FREEYOU ARE A PIRATE!
>>92557972The actual truth is that he's right and you can't cope with that, faggot.
>>92509848why couldn't they just add new factions instead of that and getting rid of existing ones?
>>92586766Blame the Chinese.
>>92586833The Chinese told them to write factions out of the game?
>>92587959Yes, by stealing the molds for them.
>>92586766They didn't get rid of factions mechanically. Every mk3 faction has a full set of rules.Lore wise? Sure, but the plot is progressing. The only faction they've explicitly destroyed, Ios, is also the one that's gotten a new full faction.
>>92509848Anything that 4chan says is superior is dogshit, this is something I've learned over almost 2 decades on this site.
>>92586567Don't get me wrong, there's still some play to it. But it's pretty clearly intended to be a semi static piece with limited threat that's pretty difficult to kill for it's cheaper costs and can absolutely murder anything it gets to.
>>92588042>destroy actually visually and thematically interesting elf jihadi faction>replace with discount dark elf/ cryx abortion
>>92589932They basically genocided the two last elves races with everblight and the nyx, and what they did to the Ios.
>>92528267God, fucking this. Being a Menoth player against only Hordes players was pure suffering. One of the reasons I stopped playing before MkIII hit. From what it sounds like, glad I didn't keep playing. I just wished they kept up with the Iron Kingdoms RPG, I had a lot of fun with it.
>>92590311Sadly they abandoned it and the only thing they've done since was the d&d 5e conversion, and they're pulling some DLC BS with a bunch of subclasses for that.
Is there someplace that isn't paywalled to check the NuLore? Because honestly all I'm seeing is a bunch of barely connected minis at this point.Sidenote, the trove in Sharethrad is horrendous. I've no idea why they decided to butch NQ like that. Fairly certain there was another one in an old thread (Which I can no longer find) that was basically the same, but with the actual mags.
>>92590350That's a damn shame, it was really fun. I'd try running a game of it, but I don’t know where I'd begin to find players for a decade old rpg based on a dead wargame.
I played the stand-alone ttrpg often back when it came out.One thing to try if you manage to get interest is how easy it is to work units from the miniature wargame into it.After all it's pretty much just the wargame with extra steps.Also Skorne lore best lore.
>>92589932And then added the elf jihadi faction back as their cadre, so you still have them.
>>92590350>>92591228I have major issues with 5e, but I'm not sure what the issue is with the DLC beyond the stupid ass name.Digital splatbooks are one of the better uses of micro, I think, because adding a full class like that lets them cover a lot of their bases in the world without having to wait for a full book, or trying to jam in stuff that's only barely related.As for the 2d6, the discord and the facebook group for both have a lot of 2d6 fans, so I'd start there. Really though, much as I loved the 2d6, it has this very issue: the only people interested in it are the subsection of players who like the wargame and play RPGs.
>>92590311>>92528267I want you guys to explain why Menoth was especially bad against Hordes(because it wasn't).>Hey, what if we just kept releasing fuck off huge centerpiece units that are basically mandatory and expensive as fuck?I know this is horseshit, because all the centerpiece models for Menoth were all fucking worthless. Hell, Menoth in mk2 had all the same problems as a lot of the mk2 factions: all their best shit was right there at the start of mk2, and most of the shit released after never compared.
>>92592144I never got a chance to play Menoth, but all I heard about them is how awful their warjacks are. Most of my gaming came from Ret and people complain the jacks are overpriced for what they do, but man neither Khador nor Cygnar jacks feel like they compare.
>>92590766A lot of lore is in the RPG book. Most of the mk4 lore is in the paywall only. The basic gist of it is that the Orgoth are back and invading Khador now, while everyone spooling up to try and stop them, while the Trolls and Khymera do their own thing
>>92593714Well they are not only invading Khador, specifically, just a bulk of their force is. Wish I had the map on me that shows the actual attack vectors, it's preddy neat. Trolls, from little I read, are rather heavily involved in aiding Cygnar-Khador-Dusk alliance against them while Cryx seems to be aiding Orgoth from the side-lines... well will see what PP plans for them once the army actually releases.But I get what you mean.
>>92593712I mean their warjacks ARE supposed to be subpar, its why they got all those buff and synnergy shit
>>92586766They literally couldn't maintain the number of models within each line. Not enough space on store shelves, not enough space in their warehouses. Then the launch of Mk 3 happened and a large number of players left WarmaHordes altogether, sending PP's profits into free fall and rendering them unable to financially keep the old model line alive while pumping out new stuff. Not to mention how much of a nightmare (by PP's own admission) it was to balance so many models within each faction.The cherry on top was when their Chinese manufacturing partners stole their master model molds over some kind of dispute (gonna' give PP the benefit of the doubt here; they may not have screwed anything up, this may have just been the Chinese being utter bastards. Every year I hear new horror stories about dealing with Chinese manufacturing. Which is probably why there are so many companies moving out of China and into the Philippines, Mexico, and Vietnam).So, PP had a Come to Jesus moment and decided that they wanted to control every aspect of their own production. This led them to embrace 3D printing for ALL future projects (Warmachine, Warcaster, everything). This allows them to keep most everything in house in America. However, they still found a partner in the United Kingdom to do 3D printing for Britain and Europe (if the UK decided to betray them like the Chinese did then they could only steal the 3D printers, there are no valuable model molds to steal).So, the old line had to die. PP couldn't keep producing it since the molds were gone. They wanted to do 3D printing, which would mean they would have to re-render EVERY WarmaHordes model into a 3D STL file. They just threw up their hands and decided to start from scratch with Mk. 4 (well, mostly from scratch. You can, of course, still play most of the old model line in this edition). It was just too much effort and money to keep the old model line alive.
>>92594810Don't forget that the stuff that wasn't stolen was old and degrading, with original sculptors now unavailable (and good portion of the sculpts were hand-sculpted from the old days.) If they wanted to remake the old stuff they would have to essentially be starting from scratch to create bootlegs of their own products and try to sell it to a customer base that already owns said models.
>>92594810>>92594943Never mind that their method of display was insanely shit. You had to already know how to play the game to buy or stock it, if you didn't have not only a grasp of the rules, but of the meta in general, there were hundreds of things you could buy that weren't worth it.Their new system is far better as well. Really, I think PP is actually making some semi decent business decisions.
>>92592120The main issue is that the most you get is a single subclass, some weapons, and maybe some warjack chassis rules sprinkled around.
>>92594943It wasn’t old. It was a few jack kits and the skorne hydra. Only the plastic kits. They were nice kits too. Kind of sucks.
