Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content. Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade—less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency. If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started. >Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128 >Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/86342023/#q86358321 >Previous thread:>>92479093>TQHave your characters ever been tortured by orcs or, as a DM, have you ever imprisoned and/or tortured some PC? What's your rules for tortures, if any? There's any particular orc clan, maybe at war with some other faction, in your setting? And what's their organization/modus operandi? Any experience with half-orc players in AD&D? Post any orc-related stuff.
>TQHave your characters ever been tortured by orcs or, as a DM, have you ever imprisoned and/or tortured some PC? What's your rules for tortures, if any? There's any particular orc clan, maybe at war with some other faction, in your setting? And what's their organization/modus operandi? Any experience with half-orc players in AD&D? Post any orc-related stuff.
>>92520684>advertise an oldschool styled AD&D game>"bro can I play a Drow">"dude my thief skills suck homebrew a new system for me!">"I want to play as an Aquatic elf!!!1">"ummm ummm ummm I hit armor class umm..."It's so tiresome. Thank god most people are better than this though.
>>92520728>muh dark edgelord elf assassin humpa loompaPersonal experience and I can say Drow shitters are the worst, I swear.
>>92520775I've never once met a single player who played Drow and was cool. Just one tolerable gigglesquee girl, and even that can be tiresome at times.Something about the Drow must inherently attract fucking obnoxious autists. Fuck these retards, I will never let anyone who wants to play as a Drow in my games.
>>92520792It's the first tiefling, a misunderstood poor quirky boy, ugu.
Trying to track all the few OD&D pre-Greyhawk clones or related games:>Delving Deeper>S&W: White Box // WBFMAG>Dungeon Delving: Undying Light>Dragons Beyond (pre-LBB "clone")>Fiends & Falchions>White Star (sci-fi clone)>Whight-BoxIf you know any more, please let me know.
>>92520684>Post any orc-related stuff.Thank you for giving me an opportunity to post about this! Akira Toriyama popularized the pig-orc with his depiction in Dragon Quest II. I went on a researching spree after his death and learned a few things about the timeline of events. The workflow for the creation of monsters for the first five games is that Yuji Horii would send Toriyama art of monsters they wanted included in the games then Toriyama would adapt the idea to his art style. This included photographs of art from D&D books starting with DQ II.The most common claim I’ve seen, and even erroneously shared in the past, is that Wizardry did it. This likely stems from the Famicom version has orcs in it that line up with the modern Japanese pig-orc, and the first anime pig-orc comes from the Wizardry movie from 1991. Note, however that the Famicom port of wizardry redrew all of the sprites, and didn't start development until February of 1987. Why is this relevant? Dragon Quest II came out in January of 1987. DQ II’s rampant success in Japan proved there was a vibrant audience for RPGs on the Famicom, and many PC RPGs were ported to the system as a direct repsonse to DQ II. There is no way Jun Suemi wasn’t aware of Toriyama’s work for Dragon Quest.I know this isn’t all that important in the grand scheme of things, especially since Toriyama’s version wasn’t what took hold in the Japan zeitgeist as a proper pig-orc, I do think it’s neat that he’s the one who really started it.
>>92520982Nah, Toriyama the goat, he inspired literally millions either with his art for DB or the Dragon quest/xenogears. I ever tought it was a wizardy thing, a bit like kobolds being dogs in japan (like the ones than appear in lodoss).
>>92520684OSE tier list, what adjustments would you make?
>>92520976Original Edition Delta + Book of WarThe only one actually worth anything.
>>92521149May you get bone cancer, faggot.
>>92521149>SvirfneblinCan't believe people play this shit. Can't believe I almost ordered the rulebooks.Only AD&D is real!
>>92521045>XenogearsU wot mate? I think you mean Chrono trigger right?>Dog KoboldsI think those are actually Wizardry, but I would need to look deeper. I guess I know my next research project.
>>92521219BX is more real than Gary's unfinished coke addled purple prose.
>>92521295>purple prosefiltered
>>92520792>I've never once met a single player who played Drow and was cool.Me>>92520911Drow are still cool. Do you faggots hate vampires too because of all the retards that enjoy theatre practice in VtM? Fuck that.Drow, as in OSR DROW, AS IN GYGAX DROW/D SERIES DROW ARE EVIL CHADS WITH SICK MUSTACHES WHO WORSHIP A DEMON because FUCK YOU. We need to reclaim drow bros... don't let the greenwoodfags win...next you faggots are gonna say you hate svirfneblin... give me a fucking break
>>92521368to sum up my post, fiend folio supremacy.
>>92521368>DROW ARE EVIL CHADS WITH SICK MUSTACHES WHO WORSHIP A DEMON because FUCK YOUCool. Next time tell your "based chad Drow" friends not to show up in a game with a fucking Paladin in it.
>>92521329So you don't deny that it's the incomplete ramblings of a coke addled fool? Good. At least were on the same page as far as the important things are.
>>92521219Wait until you find out Gygax is the one who came up with Svirfneblin as a playable race...
>>92521295Gygax prose is pure fucking kino. if you grew up in the Great Lakes area, Gygax will be someone you just GET.. He's like every nerdy ass lolbert you meet here... like your kinda weird but cool uncle or something. you're probably european.
>>92521392>Next time tell your "based chad Drow" friends not to show up in a game with a fucking Paladin in it.I settle these decisions in session 0 by simply saying whoever rolls their PC first gets the choice. If i have placed both drow and paladins on the table as potential options, either the drow will be some sort of neutral (evil leaning), or if he rolls his PC first and chooses a drow, this will take paladins off the table for the party. same as if the paladin was rolled first, no evil characters and neutral needs to be discussed.
>>92521045>kobolds being dogs in japanIn Japan? Both orcs as pigs and kobolds as dogs is from D&D, you fucking mongoloid weeaboo.
>>92521368Wasn't Faerun in 2e? If that established Lolth, Lolth is a 'woman moment' condensed into a god. She freaked out and went full yandere on Corellon, not because he didn't love her, he did, he married her, but because she feared he did not love her as much as she loved him.She proceeded to ruin everything he made to try and ensure she was the only thing for him to pay attention to, and when she got booted for being a psycho, she still plots to corrupt all elves to force Corellon to be with her. Once you understand her motivations, she stops being scary and just becomes a joke.
>>92521421This is a completely balanced and fine way to play, but we had a dude show up unannounced to our game with a Drow pre-rolled. We had been playing for an entire year by this point.Needless to say the DM did not let him come back. That was my 3rd bad experience with a Drow player in one month.
>>92521368>Drow are still cool.Only if you play them with an exaggerated Nigerian accent.
>>92521434As far as I'm concerned I only allow players to play humans (I can be persuaded to allow halflings because they're very human-like and relatable and also based). Frankly they have to seriously befriend a member of another race or get one as a henchman before they are allowed to roll that race as a future PC. The last time I ran Greyhawk a few years ago, the party had only unlocked the ability to roll a gnome after having spent about 10 sessions helping some gnomes keep their mine safe from kobolds. Later because they pursued this threat, they befriended a village of Svirfneblin who distantly knew the other gnomes. A newish player died and he jumped at the chance to play a Svirfneblin. So these are the experiences I have with these sorts of races. Rare, and usually very fun for the player and me.
>>92521452Someone's mad I pointed out their favorite race worships a yandere stalker.
>>92521518This is a super fun and exciting way to play. Thanks anon, I'm stealing this.
Has anyone ever played Tunnels and Trolls? I made fun of some kid who brought it to a friend's house a decade ago and we ended up having a great time with it.I honestly don't remember the mechanics, though. Might not even be OSR in design.
Probably a question for the other general, but what's a good module I can run solo but still have a party?Main reason I'm asking is cause I wanna familiarize myself with OSR systems before running for a group. I'm relatively new to the scene, and don't wanna do the "one against many" type of solo adventures.I tried running B1 and had fun, except I misunderstood or skipped past the part about stocking the different rooms. So basically something low prep that I can put a few builds through.
>>92521621>I wanna familiarize myself with OSR systems before running for a groupCould you run a 1 on 1 game for yourself and one other guy? Might actually be easier.
>>92521621Also depends on how involved you want it to be, but I thought that the example dungeon in the Swords & Wizardry starter set (basic? I can't remember what it's called, but it's the super stripped down rules with only 3 levels in it. Anyway...) was quite solid.
Should rune craft / runic circles / rune enchantments on armor be an alternate fighter, a magic user only thing, or just something any PC can learn with downtime and training?
Has anyone seen "The Dreams in Gary's Basement"? It sounds cool but I don't know if I'm prepared to shell out $30 or however much they're asking in my currency for it.
>>92520792>>92521368One of my players wanted to play Drow, yet since we play B/X and there's no "drow race" I depict him as black elf.
>>92522315SHEEEEEEEEEEIT
>>92521921>rune craft/rune enchantment on armourThat's just magic armour. Simple. MUs cannot wear any armour. Or as the other anon puts it, the moment they wear any armour, they turn into "Normal Human".
>>92522345I mean, if you think about it, level 1 characters are just from the 'hood trying to get rich, one way or another, so it is fitting.>>92521368that's just a black sabbath member.
Has anyone ever completely run the T1-4,A1-4,GDQ1-7 hyper series before?
>>92521422Only filtered through the videogames, son. D&D's Japanese releases didn't happen until 1989, well after the Dragon Quest II and Wizardry codified the orc and kobold designs in Japanese pop culture.
>>92520976Fantastic Medieval Campaigns is another LBB clone. I think Full Metal Platemail is as well. Maybe Greyharp counts as a retroclone?>Dungeon Delving: Undying Light First I've heard of this one, apparently another S&W offshoot. Anything that makes it stand out compared to FMAG?
>>92520976The draft of 0e in the recently unearthed court documents from Arneson v. Gygax and TSR.
>>92523292>Anything that makes it stand out compared to FMAG?Not really. Rules are free on RPG Drivethru, layout is okay, good selection of free art, 1d6 + level - Highest HD turn undead (success on a 5+ roll), limited spells list, has some procedures lacking in FMAG, AD&D classes as optional, but no gold to XP (pic).
>>92523292>Fantastic Medieval Campaigns is another LBB cloneCan you call it a clone when it just copy paste the original text?
How many rooms should a party have to explore to level up? 25? 50? 100? Trying to calibrate my treasure chart. A lot of rooms are empty in my dungeon generation, half are just features and wall carvings. Only 3/10 rooms have treasure. I understand you don't expect a party to level up after X encounters like in nu DnD. But something to base my treasure table off of, assuming 4 characters, would be helpful.
>>92523468that's exactly what a clone is supposed to be
>>92521621>what's a good module I can run solo but still have a party?Module? The fucking DMG Appendices are better than any crappy module.
>>92522386Ozzy was pretty when he was young.
>>92523479Google>site:deltasdnd.blogspot.com Subterrane Surveysand>site:deltasdnd.blogspot.com underworld overhaul
What is the best way to handle appraise?Ignore it? Only use it for special items?Should be a roll under intelligence?Should it be a thief skill? It almost seems like it should be. Most players will know a sapphire is more valuable than an amethyst, but ascertaining exact values will be beyond the bounds of player knowledge in most cases. My way of doing it, is telling the PC the wrong answer if they fail their appraise, with some random variance, so that becomes the new price i.e. what they sell it for.
>>92523550Any blog like Delta but for BX and AD&D?
>>92523555>Should be a roll under intelligence?I would roll under wisdom, if anything. Or 2-in-6 chance plus or minus the standard wisdom modifier.
I'm playing online but I don't have a scanner. What software is recommended for making dungeons?
>>92523597He often discusses though as well, and most of what he writes is applicable.
>>92523597>>92523660>He often discusses THOSE as well, and most of what he writes is applicable.
>>92523634I like this one. It supports multiple uses collaboratively editing it.https://campaignwiki.org/gridmapper
>>92523691Anon, this is fucking outstanding. Thank you.
>>92522346>Or as the other anon puts it, the moment they wear any armour, they turn into "Normal Human".I can’t find that anywhere. Is there an actual citation for this?
How much emphasis do you put on frustrating the mapper?
>>92521433>Wasn't Faerun in 2e?Forgotten Realms / Fareun first appeared as a setting for AD&D 1e, after Gygax was out. Due to the necessary production time and honestly some of Gygax's batshit ideas for new classes he wanted to make, I suspect that Forgotten Reals as it appeared in 1e was in production at TSR while Gygax was still there.>Gygax batshit class ideas>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xW_b1d0lNYIt's probably best that he stopped developing for AD&D when he did. He was already going a bit off the rails with NWPs in Wilderness Survival Guide/Dungeoneer's Survival Guide.
Just getting in to DMing a B/X hexcrawl and I've been just using the Wandering Monsters rules as written because that seems to be the intended balance within the game. I see the rules more as guidelines, but I also don't want to upset the balance of the game too much.Veterans of hex crawls, do you tend to create custom encounters for your players, only roll the wandering monsters exactly per the tables, or do a little of both?
>>92523555>if they fail their appraisewhat faggotry is this?
>>92524757Related question, how much is it okay if the player map is inaccurate? If the mapper makes a mistake or you make a mistake, how bad are the consequences of that?
>>92524536that's still the same "MUs cannot wear armour" rule, just put in different wording. https://oldschoolessentials.necroticgnome.com/srd/index.php/Normal_Human
>>92523634you have a phone. I draw on paper, take a photo with the free app adobe scanner, and it scans makes pdf out of it, if you like it.
>>92522924>D&D's Japanese releases didn't happen until 1989Try 1985.>In 1986, author Hitoshi Yasuda was>approached by the editors of Comptiq magazine to>write a series of articles about the origins of RPG>games and specifically “D&D,” to coincide with the>one-year anniversary of the Japanese release of>“Dungeons & Dragons.”
>>92525006You don't read, do you?It's not a feel, it's compatibility with OD&D, Basic & Advanced D&D.Anything 2e and beyond is NOT OSR.>>92525006>old unpolished pieces of shit and unrefined old garbageNot my problem if you cannot read. Go cry somewhere else, if you're not interested in such games.
>>92524757I'd keep it to a light touch.
>>92525006I think you're talking about reddit, where every indy game and anything pre-2000 qualifies. Here it's pretty well, if not perfectly, defined.
>>92525061That doesn’t say anything about MUs becoming Normal Men when they put on armor.
>>92525006It's a compatibility thing in terms of rules and play-style. It's very easy to port something between OD&D, Basic and AD&D, because they're all built on the same rule system.
Why are you people even responding to a guy who straight-up lied and said "I asked here and nobody could tell me what OSR is" ?
>>92523468Give it some credit: it also framed it in an unusable square page size and filled it with garish color and fourth-rate trash art.
>>92525244People can't help but respond to obvious trolls
>>92525006
How come whenever OSR grifters release their latest system, it’s always based off the works of some metal band? I like metal too, but I wish I could see someone make an adventure based off the works of Buddy Rich or Lin Manuel Miranda. Hell, I’ll even take a system inspired by fucking Bad Bunny.
>>>92517451What the fuck? Where did he flee to? I find I know so little about these big-name OSR lunatics.
>>92524833A little of both. You can always just replace options with monsters/encounters you feel work better and customize rather than starting from scratch.
>>92526095It probably has to do with heavy metal album covers tending to have fantasy art on it.
>>92526307Other genres can have fantasy album covers though.
>>92523479that depends on how many players are in a party (and which class they are to a lesser extent). I wont tell you what is the best answer to your question, but you did inspire me to go back and add a little to my autism charts i posted here a while ago.this shows RAW what a party of 5 fighters require in AD&D if you use the treasure and dungeon stocking rules as written. it does not account for xp from combat however, nor incidental treasure like goblins with 2 copper pieces in their pocket or whateverad&d gives xp for magic item treasure, while i believe BX doesnt, the red line inidcates how long it takes if you do, blue if you dontto read the table, it would take 25 rooms of mathematically average treasure* for a level 1 party of 5 fighters to gain enough xp from treasure to level alone. the table assumes you adventure at the level appropriate dungeon level *its really swingy if you actually roll on the table however. eg you could get copper 5 times in a rowi would need to think about whether these numbers are actually good in play, but it is what is actually written if you followed it to the letterps sorry it was 5 characters and not 4 like you asked, but my older charts assumed it
>>92526095Strictly speaking, the music genres that fed into D&D's creation are obviously>prog rock>classical>religious>proto-metal
>>92521621Skip the module. Roll up a character, and make sure it has high CHA. Recruit a bunch of retainers (try and aim for a balanced party. I.e. cleric, mu, fighter, thief). Use the solo rules from strategic review vol 1, no 1 (you can find this online fairly easily). I would recommend using page b52 in the b/x basic rules for stocking the dungeon rooms. Don't forget to stock up on lots of torches/lanterns. The OSE website has a useful dungeon time tracker under their free downloads section.
>>92521620Yes. It was originally designed to be an easier version of D&D with simpler math. While this is true at lower levels, once you start leveling up, the number of d6's you have to roll becomes ridiculous. If you want to play T&T, you should have at least 30 dice on hand. The appeal of T&T are their solo modules, which there are plenty of.
>>92526885Solo as in one on one, or solo as in one player only?
>>92527195Solo as in DMless play. The solo modules are kind of like old school CYOA books.
>>92526353i mean is this cover really fantasy? but also yeah, 20th century popular music was often inspired by LOTR. >>92526095metal is fucking bad ass retard and bad bunny is for illiterate niggers
>>92522924Neat. Got a link to that source? Still doesn't change the fact that only a retard would pretend like D&D's influence on Japanese media wasn't filtered through videogames.
>Have to fuck over some rival priests>Cut a deal with a merchant for him to introduce us to someone who can help, in return we have to loot a nearby ruin for him>The ruin is half way up a fucking mountain>Turns out it's not even a ruin at all and the winged elves that created the place are still actively guarding it>First ones we run into are guards who outnumber us 2-to-1>Luckily they're friendly>Notice they're seriously underfed>2 barrels of pickled fish later we find out they're slaves>Cut a deal with them as well to buy them on the sly if their masters are willing to sell them>In return they've got to let us gather some loot to sell to cover the costAnd that's how our party gained a bunch of loot and 9 winged elves who are going to be crazy useful as scouts soon as their clipped feathers regrow in a few months time.I'll never understand why people say OSR play makes all players act like murderhobos, 90% of the time you get a better deal by schmoozing than violence.
>>92521295Any 'fear and loathing in Greyhawk' story that recounts Gary's coke habits?
>>92526104I'm still not sure if the fleeing from a hit-and-run thing is real or a joke, but he lives in Uruguay now.
>>92527892He's factually wrong, Basic D&D was released in Japain in 1985, not 1989
>>92528033>I'll never understand why people say OSR play makes all players act like murderhobosIKR? It's like they're not playing the same game.
>>92528236Impossible. He has been informed by the latest research by the scholars of Reddit.
>>92528380>Japanese D&D Red Box was developed into BECMI:thinking:
>>92527892Here ya go. Comptiq mag with the original lodoss replay. https://japanesetrpg.com/2021/08/29/comptiq-magazine-december-1986/
>>92526555Questions:>1. How much did you value magic items when making that table?>2. On the Appendix A treasure table, did you consider the +10% as (A) a +10% on the number of coins, or (B) a +10% on the d100 roll to determine the type of treasure found?
Don't know if this the right thread, but does anyone here recognize what this crop is from? My dm is teasing a new campaign, and this seems really familiar, just can't place my finger on where its from.
>>92528189I see. I wonder why someone would choose Uruguay over Argentina. Same language, similar costs of living, etc.
>>92528935Your referee made a mistake teasing it,don't punish him for his lack of judgement.
>>92528935Inb4 it turns out it's cropped porn.
Are charisma modifiers to reaction rolls supposed to be from the character in the front of the formation (or back if the monster approaches from the back) or whichever character first interacts with it?
>>92528935Those are balls. See, this close, they always look like landscapes. Nope, you're looking at balls.
Has anyone else noticed that there's a dearth of actual OSR system books that teach you how to play the game and that also make for really good reference at the table? It seems to me that a system book needs to do both things well if you're ever going to gain and retain new OSR players, and make a book that's actually useful for people that have been around for a while.This thread often recommends learning to play from the original B/X books, but then using OSE for the table reference. That's fine, but why can't someone make an OSR system book that does both well?OSRIC was designed to be a reference and not to teach the game. Same with OSE. I don't really know much about Swords & Wizardry... Does it have the same flaw as being good for one or the other but not both?
I played today the second session with the best group I ever had.They are all super invested in. Nobody had played OSR before and they have understood all the dynamics on their own. The fighter died today trying to take 2 ghouls at once, but I think the lesson is learned. He wasnt paralyzed, though, got his saves right. Was devoured instead.The mage took some saliva from a ghoul for some reason with his bare hands, and I ruled to myself that the poison would take 2 turns to get in effect. In that time, he was already on another room where he found a random silent guardian in full armor. When the paralyze kicked in, they all assumed that said man had paralyzing powers and they are doing all kinds of shit to fight him without looking. One of the hobbits has found that he didnt got paralyzed by looking through a mirror, but he is just too thought to be fought by sword having a dead fighter. They resolved to flee. I am using a tweaked level up method (you get 1/3 chance to level up, but you activate it with a third of the XP needed), so they will probably have a level 2 guy by next session.
>>92529219It sounds like the player will be fighting a lot of crabs.
>>92529150>whichever character first interacts with itThis>>92529293>a dearth of actual OSR system books that teach you how to play the game and that also make for really good reference at the table?Those are two different goals, which is why you often get one or another. An English class doesn't just hand you a dictionary and say "figure it out" but you don't want to use an English text book to find the definition of something either.
>>92529293>>92529506The solution is easy: cut useless art pages and add examples of play.
>>92529293Just read the original moldvay basic rules.
>>92529607>I didn't read the whole post before responding.Dude.
Also consider that a reference book is much easier to crate than a teaching book. Teaching is a skill and a good teaching book requires plenty of it.
>>92529693original b/x books already do both well. The expert book is only 64 pages and has a reference table at the start. Basic has succinct rules with examples of play. All up, the basic and expert combined page count is still less than most osr products
does Ad&D have some level of character customization? Obviously not like an MMO. but is there any level of theorycrafting?
>>92529293I'm running Swords & Wizardry Complete and one of the reasons I picked it is because it seemed like a decent one-stop-shop book. (I'm trying to minimize my DM kit). But 1) I'm not super new so I didn't need it as a teach-the-game book, 2) a lot of the sections have "left up to the referee" or "some referees use [optional rule]" or offer two different methods (e.g. initiative & combat orders). So probably not the best for a new DM. Oh, and it has no index. I've got a number of bookmarks stuck in it. IMO no book no matter how well-formatted can compete with a handful of quick-reference cheat sheets anyway, and you won't know what you need for those until you get some practice under your belt.
>>92529780Ability scores are 4d6 drop lowest, assign. You can choose your race and your class (restrictions apply). Some equipment choices are rather superior to others, and you do have to pick which weapons your character can use.Off the top of my head I cannot think of many other specific things you players can actually both choose and optimize.
>>92529780The theory crafting stuff (often called buildfagging here) is something you got more with 3e onward. It's a component of being good at those editions of the game. Simply put, in the OSR, it's not. Skill at actually playing the game in an intelligent way is far more impactful than any amount of min-maxing the rules.
>>92529780If you're using weapon spec rules and/or weapon vs AC table, there's some optimzation for fighters.
Why are there like twenty different OSR games with basically the same rules?Why make a new “system” when it’s the exact same game with a couple of tables being changed?At least something like DCC actually has unique rules, but most of these games are literally just original d&d with some minute and insignificant changes.
>>92529800>ections have "left up to the referee" or "some referees use [optional rule]" or offer two different methodsOh do I hate when rulebooks give more than one option without explaining why you'd use it and their merits and flaws. Really sucks for new DMs who have no idea which to pick.
>>92529780It really doesn’t. You play what you roll and hope you get the right kind of magic items to augment what you want to do. Multi-classing and spell selection can shape a character in a particular way but mechanical progression is very linear.For all the shit 2e gets around here it’s the best option for a character buildy game that can still skirt around the old school experience. The Complete class handbooks and proficiencies give you a lot of options for directions to take your character. Little known fact (it’s actually pretty fucking obvious in truth) you can create characters in 2e and run them in 1e adventures without there being any discernible difference in play. Because of the limited customization 2e characters have they will be marginally more powerful than their 1e counterparts in most cases. This ramps up as they progress in levels but I wouldn’t call it exponential or anything. And since balance is a dirty word in the OSR it doesn’t matter if the characters are more powerful since all of the challenges are supposed to organic anyway. So maybe they punch above their weight for there level. Does it matter?
>>92529999>Why are there like twenty different OSR games with basically the same rules?Because unlike some people here think, people want books.They want to have everything in a single package, they don't want to tell their players to check some random google doc for X or another random rulebook just for Y rule.There's also ART, which is another factor a lot of OSR DYI don't understand people enjoy. Art sparks people's creativity and can make or break a person's interest in the rulebook.
>>92529999Because D&D has always been different from table to table and the OSR gave longtime players the ability to showcase what were essentially their house rules in a more formal expression.
>>92529780don't make me consult the Pummeling Table
>>92530042>>92530059those are much more satisfying answers than i expected, that makes a lot of sense
>>92529999One thing about the OSR is that while your different rule sets can vary, they have to retain some amount of compatibility. These rulebooks are really just collections of house rules, but as you at least want to TRY and make a game a complete package you have to more or less reprint B/X + errata/expansions.It might seem ridiculous, but I'd rather have one book that has the base rules, errata/reinterpretations, and splats over needing to refer to four or five different books. It's why white box clones are really nice, having all 3 of the LBBs compiled with this addition or that addition is preferable to needing to leaf through a bunch of books.I don't mind AD&D's separating the PHB, MM, and DMG though (wouldn't mind if the MM and DMG were one book though, and some of the DMG could probably safely be thrown into the player's book).
>>92529293>recommends learning to play from the original B/X booksI've never understood this. As someone with previous experience in later editions, I got nothing out of reading those old things. I feel like people want you to garner some specific wisdoms from it, but they never specify. So it's just 100 pages of badly explained rules you'll have to reread later (What is 'carrying treasure') and weird shit that got harddropped even by OSR fans like alignment languages.We need to be far more specific than 'reread all of these prehistorically formatted xeroxed pdf's'. OSE is a far better starting point itself, even though it doesn't teach you how to play.
>>92530272>What is 'carrying treasure') and weird shit that got harddropped even by OSR fans like alignment languages.I don’t drop those.Lurk more.
>>92530272I'm honestly very strongly considering making essentially Labyrinth Lord with better formatting and explanation, and at least 16 pages of tables, procedures, etc at the back to make it a great table reference. Why Labyrinth Lord? Because it's B/X, and I personally like it more than OSE.
>>92530200If we go right back to the roots OSRIC was created as a means to publish new modules with the style and mechanical expression of AD&D without violating WotC’s trademark of AD&D. When the old school gaming community saw that this was possible without getting sued into the dirt then the clones started coming out in force. White Box and Labyrinth Lord were then the new expressions of OD&D and B/X respectively but they were presented with the creators own spin, sometimes for perceived legal reasons, and sometimes for esthetic or mechanical preferences.I think it was Labyrinth Lord, someone will correct me if I’m wrong here. I always get confused which one was the first B/X clone.
>>92530042God the OSE books have amazing formatting, art and text readability. They are actual joys to hold, though I do think the page sizes are a bit small being pseudo-novel-y.The reason they manage to sell 9 different fucking books for very little reason is because they just look and feel beautiful.
>>92530272Alignment language is based>100 pages of badly explained rulesB/X has, at most, like 5 poorly explained pages throughout the entire pair of books. LBBs are a different story but fuck you if you complain about it - no offense.
>>92530369You still haven't explained how B/X 'tells you how to play' in a way that playing D&D in other editions doesn't.
>>92530405umm, the example of play on b28 and b59.
>>92528935don't be a faggot, just play the campaign
>>92530405Aside from the example of play, B/X is the most clearly written rule book that tells you step by step procedures for virtually everything and has an example of play demonstrating how the game works. It is written for children. I hate the kiddie D&D meme but if Adult-You cannot understand the game when even some kids and teenagers did, that is a problem that you need to solve on your own.I'm not even meaning to be a dick, the game explains itself extremely well, I didn't understand OSR until I read the adventuring rules in Basic.
>>92529293I always thought the point was that part of the fun of D&D was figuring out how to win on your own. If all you do is "cheat" by having someone else teach you all the ways to win, you just robbed yourself of the intellectual satisfaction of figuring it out on your own.
Where do people go to find OSR tables? I feel like in the wild everyone is playing PF/5e or some other random ruleset.I'd probably be able to get a game going IRL if I really put in a lot of effort, but the population where I live isn't very big and there just aren't enough TTRPG players to begin with let alone enough that would want to play B/X or something.Is there a place where you can find a somewhat reliably good group?
>>92530554A big thing to keep in mind is that like 5e, OSR has a player/DM imbalance, but in the opposite direction. So you should be willing to be a player rather than a DM first and foremost.
>>92530625I would love to be a player more than I would like to be a DM. I've DM'd a dozen RPG campaigns at this point, but only because no one else was willing. I can't find a DM either.
>>92530453I say this with all love in my heart for Mr. Gygax and having just reread those portions.This thread could do better, easily.
>>92530625>>92530671I'm on the LFG Discord. Problem is 1) No one wants to play B/X/OSE/Labrynth Lord and 2) No one wants to play a normal game where it's expected that you start at low level or where the ongoing game has a mix of levels and normal gameplay. It all has a fucking spin.So, I wouldn't say there's a DM-Player imbalance, though the Player-sided imbalance IS less of a problem than 5e, but just getting together to play the fucking game is still a major challenge.
>>92530767Gygax didn't write the b/x rules. Tom Moldvay and Zeb Cook took Gygax's incomprehensible framework of rulings and codified them into a playable game.
>>92530832I literally don't care about those people. Gygax alone is responsible for D&D. Arneson is a devil figure.
>>92529293You're just going to have to have to read 2 short books anon.>>925308322e posting is illegal in this general mang.
>>92530803Yeah I was hoping there was a community somewhere that mirrored the /osrg/ culture that was focused actual play and getting groups together because all the generic TTRPG communities I'm aware of do not play OSR rulesets.
>>92524924How is it faggotry? It's a potential new dimension to the game. It's potentially a good gold sink to have players have to pay a bit to get a giant gem appraised. But them having a chance to do it themselves is also nice.
>>92530803I've never been on the LFG Discord. What sort of spins do they have? If they want to start at high levels in OSR, I find that very confusing, since low levels are where the dungeon fun is and high levels tend to focus on realm management.
>>92530917#1. OSR ruleset do not have the concept of "skill checks".#2. How do the characters have the necessary training or knowledge to accurately appraise something as well as a trained professional?>Most players will know a sapphire is more valuable than an amethyst, but ascertaining exact values will be beyond the bounds of player knowledge in most cases.You answered your own question here.
>>92530916Ten years ago you could get an actual Saturday pop up group on Skype through tg generals. They were legitimately good times.I would do this regularly if the idea was actually alive on the weeks that I maybe wanted to play and not run. Gradual reciprocal volunteering and all that.
>>92530947Currently it's>Game starts at level 5>Game is a west marches with character registration and an rp channel on a separate discord>Game is actually full and requires an interview process for a cultural fit, and is also wrapping up so is fairly high level with a tight group of regulars>Starts in the middle of a workday in America because the DM is in the UKNot shitting on it, it's a good resource, but damn does it lack focus. It's not a great place to point self conversions to.
>>92530916I'd start this, but the autists on here would rage when I'd enforce decorum and general respect (you know, since it wouldn't be on 4chan anymore).
>>92530953>#1 roll under stats with a d20, bend bars/lift gates, hear noises, climb walls, detect slopes, detect secret doors, detect hidden doors, etc.>>92523555A lore skill for thieves that gets higher as they level up sounds great. But if it fails the party has to take it to a sage, specialist or a m-u for identification.
>>92530554>Where do people go to find OSR tables?You make one. I got a handful of buddies from work and pitched a game. I didn't tell them it was OSR specifically, just classic D&D, and they caught on very quickly.
OD&D questions:Fighters can use Int on a 2 for 1 basis in their prime requisite areas. Does this mean at creation they can subtract 2 Int points and add 1 Str?Attack Matrix II Monsters Attacking has ranges of 2-3, 3-4, 4-6, 6-8. Which column is utilized for say a 4 HD monster? Up to the ref to decide? Is it to be read as "from 3HD to Under 4HD"?
>>92530896Since when has b/x been considered 2nd edition?
>>92530896Zeb Cook wrote the Expert book that accompanies Moldvay's basic.That's why the X half of B/X is worse.
>>92530850Arneson was responsible for blackmoor, which is what most people would recognise as D&D today. Gygax saw what Arneson was doing and copied his homework. That's how we ended up with Greyhawk.
>>92531098see>>92531099He is wringing his hands at the mention of Zeb Cook, whose name is plastered onto 2e's books since he was in charge or whatever.
>>92531086Yeah, I've tried that. The people in my immediate friend groups just don't seem that interested in the game (a couple of them just aren't fun to play with either).
>>92531089>Does this mean at creation they can subtract 2 Int points and add 1 Str?Yes, you may do this as many times as you want provided you do not decrease Int below 9.
>>92531063Don't be pedantic. What was described sounds exactly like how 3e+ skills work with skill points and the like, which is nothing like Thief skills.
>>92531086Different anon, nobody in my area seemed interested in old school D&D either. Maybe it was a mistake to pitch it as 1st edition, which is what my game would most closely resemble, because every fucking faggot in the area thinks 5e is the best edition.Tasteless.
>>92531098Sorry, just a bad joke>>92531099I liked it! But I still dislike the procedures for getting lost. I just pull a caves of qud, get a topographic map appropriate for the dominant terrain, assign north to a random side, populate it with monsters and have the players move through it until they get to one of the sides where I roll their check again and if they fail it, I get a new topographic map and tack it on to where they emerged from.
>>92531191Ah, you're the DQposter. I take back whatever insult I was thinking of slinging.My main gripes are a lack of depth regarding retainers and specialists, lack of direction with domain play, and the fighter isn't given a single toy to play with whereas the other classes get plenty. I know fighters are supposed to be simple but I'd like a button to press once in a while. Oh, and I suppose I wish more attention was granted to higher levels of dungeon crawling. The wilderness rules are not amazing, although completely serviceable. It makes sense why people still prefer the dungeon crawl.Cook's X isn't bad. I meant "worse" in a relative sense, Moldvay's B is just really damn good. And despite my efforts I don't think I could have done a much better job.
>>92531288Isn't the fighter's versatility in terms of arms and armor supposed to be its strength? Also usually the fighter is the one with the highest AC and the highest strength in the party, making them the best door opener and melee shock troop?I feel like the fighter has the most room to shift into whatever space they want since they aren't tied to their party utility like the thief, cleric, and magic-user. A fighter can be the meat shield, the party moral compass, the puzzle-solver, the door kicker, the charismatic recruiter/leader, etc. Anything that is possible in the abstract/TotM can potentially be part of what a fighter makes their job in the party.
>>92529293I've noticed this as well. I find it especially bizarre that a genre dedicated to resurrecting a playstyle that died out in large part due to a lack of explaining the intended playstyle is so full of core rulebooks that fail to explain the intended playstyle. You can't succeed at this entirely and still have a manageable game manual, but I've tried to do this with my homebrew for exactly this reason. But it's difficult to know what to include and not, and every word you spend on it is one that interferes with the book's utility as a reference, so it's important to be careful with formatting and whatnot when adding advice so it doesn't get in the way of everyday use.
>>92531398Yeah yeah yeah, versatility, but is a sweep attack so much to ask for?
>>92523439>that fucking XP systemJesus, the lengths some people will go to not to use gold for XP
>>92531526why the hate for gold as xp? i just don't get it.
>>92531526I won’t argue against XP for gold as a fundamental but excluding everything else as a possible supplemental is equally asinine.
>>92531586They’re retards who cannot understand how the process of acquiring treasures in the dungeon can lead to an improvement in class functions. They cry it’s “too abstract” as they abstract away the concept of XP altogether.
>>92521407Gygax prose is what makes his modules the most interesting of all.
>>92531776we're not seriously calling the writings of a borderline illiterate prose, are we???
>>92531859Actual fucking retardPay attention in English class you troglodyte
>>92531859
>borderline illiterateOh, my fucking sides
>>92531167>What was described sounds exactly like how 3e+ skills work with skill points and the like, which is nothing like Thief skills.I think it's a valid response to the statement, quote >OSR ruleset do not have the concept of "skill checks". Which is just not an accurate description of any OSR ruleset. If the real issue is that the idea is too close to the concept of 3.5 skill checks then he should have that. But how is it closer to a 3.5 skill check anyway? Anon didn't even suggest a resolution mechanic, just referred to several possible options that are already in the game.
>>92532039Gygax just tried to emulate the writings of Tolkien, and failed miserably. It's basically like all American film/media remakes and adaptations. Never as good as the original, and always a bit cringe.
>>92532146Isn't the salient point that the characters should just describe what they would do or how they would know the value of an item to be "appraised" and the DM would decide if that happens, can't happen, or might possibly happen and need a roll (e.g. INT, WIS, 1-in-6, etc. depending on the item and the method of evaluation).
>>92532401That's one valid way of handling it, but you could make that same argument for literally anything the players do in the game. Skill checks exist exactly for situations that crop up repeatedly (like finding treasure) and might be difficult to adjudicate fairly (like determining whether a character can identify the value of gems).I'm not saying it's a great idea, and personally I'm not going to bother using it, but I fail to see how adding it to the thief's repertoire is any more a violation of OSR principles than anything else the thief does.
>>92532393>Gygax just tried to emulate the writings of TolkienkekTry Lieber or Vance, moron>this is the retard calling others illiterate
>>92532649Have you read any of the Jack Vance novels, or Tolkien's work?
>>92530272I'm foe af and I still ue alignment languages.
>>92530767>This thread could do better, easilyYou can do it fag.
>>92530767>This thread could do better, easily.It's harder than you think.
>>92532393>Gygax just tried to emulate the writings of TolkienShow your work, post examples of this
>>92532886I know rightGygax admonished against Tolkienism. But he also admonished against magic-users and his famous PCs are all wizards.Gary was a man of many facets.
>>92532715All the Dying Earth books and dozens of short storiesLOTR, Silmarillion and HobbitAll the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser storiesSome Moorcock, plenty of LovecraftGygax leans much more towards non-Tolkien voices, which you'd know if you read books
Has anyone here ever actually successfully transitioned their campaign from dungeon crawling to a focus on domain/wargame play?
>>92528781i used the AD&D xp values and prices, but i only used the DMG charts, not including any UA or whatever items, but i removed artefacts from the calculations because i mean, no one ever allows them to show up randomly do they?its +10% on the type of treasure found
I'm making my own damned port city from personalized stolen elements. One of the things I want to be of relative importance and detail is traveling merchants.Local merchants have prices driven wayyy the fuck up when selling to adventurers, since the town is close to a big dungeon (Stonehell). These sailing merchants will still be marked up but a whole lot less. The "referee plays the game a little bit out of session" aspect I have set up is 3 "slots" checked weekly with a 3-in-6 chance of a slot being taken for 1d3 weeks, after which that merchant leaves port.I've got 6 cultural types of merchants with different "flavors" of goods and weapons and each with some unique offerings that aren't available normally. 3 categories to sell are Goods, Arms, and Treasures (to see if they will buy/sell treasures), with a 3d6 X-in-6 to determine whether they do or not deal in each category.Also they'll buy treasures at different rates. Local merchants buy treasures at 70+d20% of the listed price. Port merchants offer the same but since each is based on a culture they'll pay 90+d20% of the list price for specific kinds of treasure instead, like the Norse Pastiche dudes value gold, bone, and sapphires higher. Or, the Desert Pastiche dudes will pay 50+d100% for anything. So players can find out which people like what and maybe hold onto a treasure to sell it for more when an appropriate merchant hits port.Sometimes these merchants will have "masterwork" weapons, which give +1 to attack and damage but aren't magical. These are sold at 10x book prices. A merchant that sells Arms has a 10 -30%(by culture) to have 1d3 or 1d6 masterworks from a selection of weapon types. Norse Guys sometimes have runesmithed weapons that actually are magical. Norse, Desert, and Roman Pastiche dudes sometimes sell slaves. Desert guys sometimes have odd magic items, stuff like scarabs of protection. Yes I'm selling magic items Sometimes, but they're expensive.Anything else I should throw on?
>>92533565>Anything else I should throw on?Nope. You’re gonna have a hard enough time keeping track of all that.Good luck!
>>92533663It all fits on one worksheet I've got mostly together so it'll be fine and in play all they'll really be interacting with regularly is the different weapons, selling treasures, and stuff like "this merchant's selling sake and katanas instead of swords" or "this turban-wearing dude's lanterns are of ornate copper construction with snakes slithering up the corners" and "the man praises odin when he sees the sapphire-inlaid crown and offers you A Fuckton of Gold for it" stuff. I figured it's a fun way to add a little bit of character to mundane gear and to really sell the port town as a neutral place run by profit-seeking cutthroats.I always thought it was neat how Conan was routinely described as wearing random shit from across the globe.
During your hex crawl, do prefer to have a hex map in front of the players or do you let the mapper draw on a blank map as they move and explore? If you let the players have a hex map do you the DM draw features on it or is only the mapper drawing on it? Are there any features already on the map?With the advent of VTTs, it seems more difficult to achieve a style of play where the party maps the world while the DM tracks progress on a hidden map. But not doing it that way means that getting lost has to be resolved differently or is odd in how the players figure out they are lost.
>>92533545Yeah, I was wondering what figures you got. I did the same "exercise" and got about 6,800 gp per magic item, but I know I haven't accounted for everything correctly. For example, I can't remember if I have assigned maps a value of zero or excluded them from the sample.I think I did include artifacts, though.
>>92533780>and got about 6,800 gp per magic itemwell i dont know how you calculated yours but
>>92533812Great minds! Good that it checks out.
>>92533775"it depends"I'm running dolmenwood right now. it's a pretty settled setting. I just have the map in front of them and tell them what they see when they enter a hex. they can take all the notes they want on it.I did something roughly similar in a mostly-desert hexcrawl. the terrain is primarily wide and open, I did not see a reason to hide distant landmarks from them. I'd reveal it in large chunks. hexes would still have smaller or hidden things only found by entering or searching the hex but it did not feel right to withhold major information for even 3-4 hexes away.when I did an "exploring a newly discovered jungle island" hexcrawl the map was blank when they got it. they'd have to enter a hex to even find out the terrain. if they managed to find a major vantage point they'd get maybe some distant landmarks or surrounding biomes in rough directions. it was an unknown land with dogshit visibility, so I made mapping it hard
>>92533775Hexes are an abstraction for the DM, players don't need to know about them or see them.
>>92533972>not using the Outdoor Survival boardwew lad
>>92533998Orthogonal to the question of whether you show it to players
>>92534049If DM is using a hex map how should players map things?
>>92529293Honestly, the new versions of ACKS Judge Guide is exactly that. It breaks down each aspect of ACKS play and explains how to both structure a campaign and why things tend to be done that way.It's full of remarkably solid advice.
>>92534443I am really eager to get my hands on those books
So I'm running S&W Complete Revised and a player rolled crazy stats for his fighter. Isn't the Parry ability a bit busted? It goes up to -5 to enemy attacks and it's a passive so it's effectively the same as AC improvement by up to 5 AND high dex already improves AC by 1 which means a fghter in plate can end up with -4AC at level 1 making him unhittable by anything below 3HD (automatic hit on nat 20 is optional in S&W but even if using it it's still very strong). Is this kinda busted? Or am I not getting something? Is it fine in actual play? The fighter was going through the first dungeon like knife through butter and carried the whole party through it, I guess once we get to more dangerous dungeons it might be fine, he's just strong.
Is the Wilderness Survival guide any good for a hex crawling exploration campaign? If no, is there a better book covering weather and terrain in a way that plays well?
>>92531089>>92531165Moldvayan Revisionism!More seriously though, I have played it where you don't actually change any scores in OD&D - you simply *use* the secondary abilities for the purpose of XP bonus. That is, a F-M with 14 Str and 13 Int would still have a 14 Str, but a 10% bonus to XP earned, because the 13 Int is enough to bump them.It's been interesting, as retaining those Int points means you also get bonus languages: which opens up possibilities in the dungeon.
>>92531089Monster hit dice - I assume is a typo. If you do 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, the progression makes sense.
>>92531604I will.Gp for Xp informs player behavior and aligns in game rewards with the intended table experience.
>>92533840>it did not feel right to withhold major information for even 3-4 hexes awayFound the flat Earther
>>92535222>I'm running S&WThere's your problem. Did you try playing D&D?
>>92531604>excluding everything else as a possible supplemental is equally asinineFuck off to plebbit, then.
constructing a "random terrain feature" table for my hexcrawl campaign. Could use some ideas for the SWAMP biome.
>>92535406It says that specifically concerning the Cleric using Str but not in the other attributes. RAW are quite unclear in places
>>92535656https://www.mediastorehouse.com/fine-art-storehouse/photo-libraries/dorling-kindersley-prints/illustration-ancient-raised-walkway-reed-swamps-13538717.html
>>92535802thats pretty cool
>>92535656I'm assuming you've already incorporated Appendix B and Appendix C, as well as the effects of swamps on the chances of disease and parasitic infestation.I just checked Wilderlands of High Fantasy and Wilderness Hexplore and they don't offer much besides a dedicated table for the cave types you can (and can't) find in a swamp terrain.The ToAD has a handful tables, but it's the usual no-substance-all-flavour crap. But if you're into that kind of shit you might want to check it out.
>>92535828appendixes in what?
>>92531191tfw my dw1 carts battery died and now i cant save the game
>>92535859I suggest you clear your weekend plans and hunker down and read the 1e DMG.
>>92535885Id love to
>spend a few hours and write myself a 4 page reference for all the man types/animals/monsters for the greater continent of the campaign im working on>sit down to work on the actual province the game is going to begin in and I freeze at the thought of having to create a 2d6 random encounter table from my curated list of npc, second guessing every choicewhy am i such a faggot? any tips bros..
>>92535859if not bait you are woefully unprepared
>>92535969tables and sub tables. one roll for which animal sub-group then a second for specifics. repeat for each category
>>92535985ur a genius bro. i literally run od&d most of the time too. im just a retard and my tables are so different than the ones in core od&d currently i just disregarded them and thought it would be faster to make a 2d6 chart. gygax already knew... i kneel...
>>92535859Lurk more, tourist.
>>92536108are you 14?
>>92535969Populate a list with every garbage idea you can think of, just everything stream-of-consciousness, and the come back later and prune it.
>>92531139Oh come now fren.Blackmoor started as a kingdom in Gygax & Kuntzes Castle & Crusades society.also most people today recognize Forgotten Realms as DnD.
>>92536132>are you 14?Bitch, what?You post to /osrg/ and you haven't even read the single most important core rulebook in all of D&D, what the fuck are you doing commenting instead of catching up on the required material?I know you zoomers have the concentration powers of a developmentally challenged chicken and you find the very idea of picking up a book threatening, but fucking man up.
>>92536213 ok, big man
>>92536213you have no clue what the fuck you're spazzing about you stupid retard.im >>92535969 and like i said in >>92536061i fucking run od&d with chainmail and usually outdoor survival lol just right now im starting a new campaign with a totally different monster list so i decided to make my own encounter tables and I over looked subtypes.. why? because AD&D DOESNT FUCKING USE SUBTYPES AND I HAVE WAY MORE EXPERIENCE IN AD&D THAN OD&D AND THE ENCOUNTER TABLES IN AD&D AND MM2 ARE ASS. YOU DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LOL
>>92536213IM THE FUCKING ANON WHO TOLD THE OTHER GUY TO READ THE DMG LMAO
>>92536388>AD&D DOESNT FUCKING USE SUBTYPES AND I HAVE WAY MORE EXPERIENCE IN AD&D THAN OD&DImma have to call bullshit on you having any experience with AD&D because picrel.
>>92536431>frog subtablebased and gygaxpilled
>>92533537The whole campaign no. Had a boomer player for a while who was very happy to play wargames that had game world influence though. He kept trying to seize castles and land as a player character but was not very good at it so usually ended up violently fucking it up instead. Good times.
>>92533775Hex map is for the DM in most cases. Its a method of organizing notes about the game world. Having an in-world map with roughed out >here be dragoons sort of features everyone would know about, what's after the four edges and a scale is fun. Creates some easy verisimilitude but leaves room to add to the map and world through play. They're usually drawing on it, sometimes I draw in a thing or adjust a bit. We've played map making games as a group before. Zero experience with various digital mapping and limited interest, seems like it would make your life easier but rarely have I noticed cruft life enhancement products actually do that.
>>92534386Paper and a pencil you retard.
>>92535337>in a way that plays wellNot sure what you mean by this, are there problems with the way wilderness travel plays in whatever osr you're using? If it doesn't have those already why not? The old Wormskin zines had a good table for weather, travel effects, spore, etc. Into the Wyrd and bullshit has an okay woods exploration chunk of rules, nothing I'd use as is. WSG is okay? Again, worth looking at to salvage rather than use as is. Material for generation highlights:>Yoon Suin>D30 Sandbox Companion >D4 Caltrops Wilderness Hexes
>>92535222Generally anything that makes a level 1 character only get hit on a 20 is a bad design. No experience with S&W, don't do feats because of shit like this, but if Parry is suppose to be a swashbuckling swordfight thing you could limit the amount of armour worn to try and keep it from being too overpowered. Having too easy of a time in the early levels of gameplay will fuck up the player's expectations and the whole group's ability to engage with the game and solve problems in ways that aren't just throw Sir Mincelot at it.
Any good dungeon generation procedure? Dislike the one in BX.
>>92536731No. No one in the entire history of d&d, DnD, Dogs and Dishfuckers, has ever made a good dungeon generation procedure. Not once. You're doomed, rpgs are a sham, no one has ever actually played anything like one its all a big trick like the trueman show. What did you dislike about the one in B/X?
>>92520982pig-orcs are kino.>>92520684Thanks for making me imagine pic-orcs wearing Swiss-Guard and Spanish-Conquistador style armor and shooting muskets. That'd be awesome.Did Wizards of the Coast ever got firearms right? I remember in 3e there was a supplementary book with firearms, but they did like 1d10 damage and had reloading time. Basically a heavy crossbow. Pretty disappointing and not worth it.
>>92536731God I fucking hate "I've never read the DMG day".
>>92536776>Did Wizards of the Coast everOff-topic, fuck off.
>>92536431i mentioned monster manual and monster manual 2 and fiend folio shit where you only get dragon subtables. i dont use appendix c, doesnt mean i dont play ad&d. i spend 90% of my time in the dmg in appendix a or b
>>92535222If you leave the party rule as is the it's a bit nuts. Try tossing in archers, things that grab (use the unarmed combat rules from page 41 as a guide), spell casters (humanoids casting spells is fun). Traps also work.From how the rules read, fighting defensively sounds like it's supposed to be a choice or an option the player chooses. You could maybe make it work only if the player wins initiative. Or cut movement if fighting defensively.S&W kinda has a lot of text that you need to make adjustments too. Cool system though.
>>92536769>What did you dislike about the one in B/X?Randomness in the distribution, existence of unspecified "special" rooms, not much mention on dungeon size.>>92536788Never played AD&D
>>92536673>Yoon SuinDidn't read it.>D30 Sandbox CompanionContent generator for based grogs.>D4 Caltrops Wilderness HexesFlavour generator for faggots.Brought to you by the The One-Line-Review GrogBro Anon (a signature never again to be used).
>>92536844>Never played AD&DDoesn't matter, don't ask questions until you've read the fucking DMG. I swear to fucking god 90% of the questions asked here are answered in there.
>>92536847>>92536844Go read some books, stop posturing ignorance as a virtue while clamouring for people to spoon feed you satisfaction to desires you don't even understand. The answers to your problems are already solved, have been for decades at this point. Read some books. Play some games. If it seems like the base rulebooks, aka B/X and AD&D DMG 1st ed, aren't to your liking, you won't like OSR so go do something else. Shit's not complicated.
>92536877Lmao, you should seek psychiatrist
>>92536929Okay Borat.
Cynthia Williams is leaving Hasbro.https://www.dicebreaker.com/companies/wizards-of-the-coast/news/cynthia-williams-wizards-of-the-coast-president-steps-down-sec-filingMaybe the transition period will open up the chance for somebody there to actually release the 3.5 SRD to CC like they said they would.I know, I know--wish in one hand...
>>92535222I don't have my notes in front of me but I'm pretty sure Parry being "always on" is something that has changed in various publishings of S&W. I don't know what it was like in OD&D. It's one of the few things I houseruled (combat movement rates are another, which also changed between editions). I made it instead-of-attacking and also allow the fighter to give it to an adjacent character to protect them. I use side-based initiative so this kind of cooperation is more likely, but I admit no one has opted for it yet. I would be interested to know more about how your tests go.
>>92536991>monetizes the shit out of things with /v/ style micotransactions and whatever the hell the ogl was >cuts staff like crazy to get minor bump>ditches with the money Really hoping wotc dies and dnd fades out for a decade.
>>92536637why not have hexes oon the paper?
>>92537178It's possible to get lost while overland traveling. This instantly invalidates any player side hex-map and they get obsessed with getting it accurate.
>>92537449That's a reason to *use* hexes, moron.
>>92533775>With the advent of VTTs, it seems more difficult to achieve a style of play where the party maps the world while the DM tracks progress on a hidden mapmy old-man-yells-at-cloud moment today is to whine about how backward this is and how it suggests they are not virtual "tabletops". this kind of thing should be easier with computers not harder.
>>92537064>>92536812>>92536716The rule has been vague in previous editions but in revised the fighter explicitly doesn't give up his attack when parrying (pic related). It's worded as an option but there's no reason in the rules not to use it all the time, making it effectively a passive or at least that's how I'm reading it. I'm thinking of making it only apply against the first attack.I also use active parry as an option for everyone. I'm using the rule from delving deeper, you give up your attack but give -4 to enemy attack. If the opponent misses because of the parry and gas a larger weapon, your weapon is dashed from your hands. If your opponent misses despite the parry and has a larger weapon, you get to do a counterattack. My players were ignoring it just like yours. But they ended up being overwhelmed by undead at one point and somebody remembered the parry so they tried it. The front line was parrying, back line was stabbing with spears and they eeked out a close victory thanks to the parry. It was very effective and now it's their go to tactic against dumber foes but it makes me think -4 is a bit too much even when you have to give up your attack or maybe it is only supposed to be used against opponents with weapons and not zombies... Not sure. I'll have to try making it work only against the first attack and I'll see.
>>92537687By all means hurl insults, doesn't make you right.
>>92537178You can if you want. I've found it makes players overfixate on the hexes rather than the map and game as well as creates problems when they're incorrect about mapping.
>>92537863This is a good story to highlight a use case for parry. Thank you for sharing.
>>92537687Only if a more accurate map sells for more money....
>>92537863>The front line was parrying, back line was stabbing with spearswhat's your rules for attacks from the backline? this is an interesting topic to me but there's no hint in the rulebooks and to handle it can be a bit tricky.>which weapon to allow>limitation for small sized races>penalties
>>92537946>creates problems when they're incorrect about mapping.agree with your first point, but that is totally fine IF THOSE MAPS CAN BE SOLD. as for your second point. just reread the rules, proper procedure unironically fixes the issue. you just need erasable colored pencils so corrections arent horrible. but this is why landmarks are important for bearings
>>92537863>The front line was parrying, back line was stabbing with spearsgood synergy, I will suggest this to my players
>>92538105when your players begin to phalanx all of your dungeons now, introduce very tight jagged corridors or slanted passages with traps
>>92537972Spears and polearms. It's in S&W rules.>>92538153Also large open rooms with verticality. Large charging monsters. Wizards with fireballs love a phalanx. Mobile enemies that try to flank instead of just throwing themselves onto a shield wall. Ambushes.
>>92537779I don't disagree. I wish I had a solution that wasn't "point a camera at your desk so we can see the map and read your character sheet"
>>92535222Pic is what S&W Core (4th Print) does with parrying, allowing it only when you aren't attacking. I don't have access to Complete Revised, but the 1st Print of Complete says that Fighters can parry enemy blows "while fighting defensively in battle". A quick search didn't turn up anywhere that it defined what fighting defensively actually means, but I'm guessing it's probably an omission and that fighting defensively means giving up your attack, which would bring parrying more into line with S&W Core. I certainly wouldn't give a Fighter with a high Dexterity score a huge bonus to AC all the time (on top of the default AC bonus from Dexterity they already get). That would be broken *and* stupid.
>>92535222>>92538828Also, I generally house rule that a natural attack of 19 *or* 20 always hits, and a natural attack roll of 1 *or* 2 always misses. Those are still tiny chances, but they're twice what you have by the rules, and it helps keep things in play a little more.>>92538828>I certainly wouldn't give a Fighter with a high Dexterity score a huge bonus to AC all the time (on top of the default AC bonus from Dexterity they already get).To be fair though, the max Dexterity bonus to AC in S&W is only 1, as opposed to Basic D&D, where it goes up to 3. Still, the parrying bonus goes up to 5 (for a combined 6), which is a ridiculous amount, and I don't think getting an 18 Dexterity should give you that big of a boost, especially not passively.
I'm just seeing the pic in >>92537863 now, and I think it's just fucking stupid. I'd recommend ignoring it and using the Core rule I posted in the pic in >>92538828.Oh, and I allow people to get a +2 bonus to hit if they accept the worse of two damage rolls. With a starting THAC0 of 19 vs. an AC 3 target, this roughly breaks you even (101.2% average damage per round with a d6 weapon, 99.2% with a d8 weapon), but it's pretty useful vs. targets that are harder to hit (124.1% with a d8 weapon vs. AC 2, 168.7 vs. AC 1, 253.0% vs. AC 0, and 506.0% vs. AC -1). I think it's something of a mechanical glitch how heavily armored characters with a dexterity bonus are able to run low level monsters up against the wall on their attack scores, and this basically just prevents such characters from becoming all but impervious to low level attacks.
Should I move to AD&D at some point? I've been running a sandbox for a few months following a Melan blog on making a crawl. B/X with OSE as a reference. Most players have reached 4th level. Though our poor magic-user Jonred the Unready II (less ready than his namesake, was poisened by his enemies)
>>92539244In my personal opinion, no. I think AD&D is a bit of a cluttered mess, which doesn't make good use of the complexity it has over B/X. With that said, you should feel free to port over any rule you like from AD&D, doing it slowly, piece by piece modifying your game of B/X.
>>92535406>Moldvayan Revisionism!straight from OD&D
>>92539244You don't have to switch to AD&D, but the DMG is still a must read.
>>92536673>Yoon Suin>D30 Sandbox Companion>D4 Caltrops Wilderness HexesThanks
>>92539475"Can *use*," "may *use*," - not "can *exchange*," nor "may *alter*."Men & Magic, p. 10https://www.enworld.org/threads/q-a-with-gary-gygax.22566/page-814#post-3776101
Any oponions on GLoG magic? I am thinking on giving it a try. I tried to make some homebrew instead of vancian magic, but it sucked
>>92539244Use classes, tables and spells from AD&D but rules from Holmes basic.
>Made my first ACKS race>Piss easy once I actually read the rulesI'm pleased that something which upon first glance intimidated the shit out of me turned out to be so simple.
>>92540463then please explain the "does not bring that category below average" part in my pic. I'm genuinely curious.
>>92540565find better bait
>>92540700NTA but why is it bait? Honestly the basics seem neat.>1 spell per level>Gamble dice to cast spells, more dice -> More powerful spells>Spells are spirits and tend to 'creatively interpret' things in line with their own natureWhat's not to like?
>>92540732>NTA but why is it bait?glog is an offshoot of pathfinder e6 rules. It's not OSR.
>>92540761Fair enough. I can see the magic system itself working as a plug in though honestly.
>>92540565>>92540732It's bad rip-off of WHFB's magic but with even less consequences and heavy DM fiatBetter to import Mage: The Ascension's spheres and spellcasting at that point
>>92540689The key is where it says "prime requisite *total*" - rather than just "prime requisite." This is how my brain reconciles the two. If it was supposed to change the ability score wholesale, it would have been explicit to reference the prime requisite, alone. As to "bring below average" - that is simply the limit on how much you can use: as otherwise, essentially everyone would have the maximum XP bonus.
>>92541141Huh. Yeah I can follow that logic.
>>92540605While AD&D having more spells to draw from is useful, if you look at spells that exist in B/X as well (I'm not very familiar with Holmes), AD&D's are often significantly more complicated with little advantage gain from it.
>>92541141While your version seems consistent with what Gygax was saying over on enworld, the OD&D wording is absolutely asinine and just short of deliberately calculated to confuse.
>>92538001Procedures are great and all but no amount of procedures will prevent player retardation. Having in world maps rather than hex maps makes the errors much easier to deal with. Doesn't have anything to do with selling them. Erasing on a map rather than adding notes over time is garbage.
>>92540761It sells as osr and is compatible with it 100%, youre just wrong anon.The divergences may be good or bad but you can totally run a module with it with zero conversion
>>92541535>It sells as osrBreaking news: Shadowdark and DCC are OSR
>>92541535>It sells as osrok retard
>>92541611no
>>92541535>It sells as osrGo back to plebbit, tourist.
>>92540761I am not the anon you have been conversing with. I'm just curious about your post.When you say "glog is an offshoot of pathfinder e6 rules", what exactly do you mean? Do you mean it works like those e6 rules, which as I understand it work more or less like 3.x rules? Or do you mean that they used some sort of reference document of those e6 rules to reconstruct an OSR game, but having use the e6 reference material means it's not OSR?I ask this because I have been told by anons in this thread that my current project (using the 5.whatever creative commons SRD to reverse engineer my way to a game that plays exactly like B/X but perhaps with different language to express those rules, because it contains almost all the necessary terms and such) will produce a game that's not OSR because it starts from the 5.yaddayadda SRD.pic unrelated>attention tits in case anyone else might have some relevant thoughts
>>92541858>my current project (using the 5.whatever creative commons SRD to reverse engineer my way to a game that plays exactly like B/X but perhaps with different language to express those rules, because it contains almost all the necessary terms and such)Why are you wasting your time on something that's basically already been done by Gavin Norman?
>>92541611Obvious bait, but I am gonna respond because fuck it, what else have I got to do right now?>Shadowdark is OSRShadowdark is an interesting case. It is NOT OSR by the definitions of this thread. Iit's more or less mechanically compatible with B2, but it's magic system is not Vancian, which I believe this thread asserts is necessary for it to be OSR (someone correct me there if I am wrong). That said, I've read is and played it, and it does FEEL a lot like the early editions. It's something I can see Moldvay or even Gygax cooking up in 1974 in an alternate timeline. That's not enough to make it OSR by the definitions of this thread, but fuck me if it isn't a good game for people that like deadly, dungeon crawling for treasure games.>DCC is OSRDCC comes from trying to create modules for 3.x in the style of the old editions, but that doesn't make the game OSR. It's not even OSR adjacent, unlike Castles & Cursades. To be clear, C&C is not really OSR either, but that's because it came at a time when everyone was still afraid of WotC suing the piss out of people making full-on clones. It is MUCH closer to being OSR than DCC can ever be.To summarize, I think Shadowdark is to the OSR as Castles & Crusades is to the OSR. They're not OSR per the definition of this thread, but they are mechanically compatible with B2 and damn fine games for people that like the kind of games that oD&D, B/X, and AD&D 1e are.
>>92541858>what exactly do you mean?I mean it is outside the context of this thread. You want to talk about glog? Make a new thread about it and I'd be happy to talk about it (I actually like some of what it does).
>>92541858GLOG is a perpetually unfinished FOE shitbrew that a lot of people thought was interesting for a bit there, but which turned out to be an unplayable dead end of terminal "game designer" autism.
this thread really should just be called /1eg//osrg/ is a misnomerso is "The OSR" though, honestly
>>92542012>this thread really should just be called /1eg/Wrong.
>>92542022so no BFRPG and no OSE and no stonehell or labyrinth lord or
>>92542042
>>92541969>Why are you wasting your time on something that's basically already been done by Gavin Norman?I get this question a lot. It's a reasonable one to ask. The answer is that I do not fucking trust WotC, and I think they will eventually try to come for the OGLv1.0a again.That matters, because DriveThruRPG was ready to delist all products released that use the OGLv1.0a to avoid legal issues. That would gut the OSR, because so much of it, even OSE, still includes the OGLv1.0a, and nobody knows the legal status of publishing something that once used the OGLv1.0a without it without a complete, ground-up rewrite.This is why Swords & Wizardry got a new edition that was a ground-up rewrite without any link to the OGlv1.0a, and I think why OSRIC is getting a new one too. I want there to be a B/X clone that has that same reliability of availability. Also, I think Gonnerman's use of the CCv4.0SA is a poison pill that will keep good developers from even bothering to make stuff for it, because they would have to release their work under the same license (share alike).I don't expect to make a fortune on it or anything. Money isn't even a goal. I am going to sell it on DTRPG as a pay-what-you-want pdf, and a print on demand version.The most it could help me professionally or financially is that I am going to use all my own art, which is what is taking so long. A product out there with your art in it and your name in the credits could bootstrap me into getting work for other publishers. I may take some art donations though from artists like Gonnerman does. I can't afford to pay them other than with credit in the book, and that's why I haven't pulled the trigger on accepting those donations yet. I would rather suffer the long production time than ask artists to work for free/exposure, because I expect to be paid for my work, and they should be able to expect the same thing.
>>92542056just admit you want a cool sounding label more than you want consistency
>>92542091>OSE lacks tonal and mechanical fidelity to B/Xis this the point you are really trying to make?
>>92541991Yes, it's outside the context of this thread, but WHY? It i not compatible with B2, or significantly mechanically different from oD&D, !e, or B/X? I just wondered why it's outside the context of the thread. That's all. I don't want to talk about it, just understand what makes it persona non grata here.I understand my BorkBornBork (pic related: it's what I think of every time someone mentions Mork Bork) is not welcome. I just want to know why glog isn't.>>92542005So it's a mechanical non-fidelity thing?
>>92542126>but WHY?for the same reason DCC is: they are 3.x derived rulesets. They diverge far enough that you aren't going to get anything more than shitposts out of this thread if you insist on talking about it.
>>92542154Meaning they play like 3.x, or they use language from 3.x? OSE and LL use language from 3.x, but they play nothing like it.Basically, I am just trying to figure out if you're right that it's not on-topic, or if you're a retard. I don't want to actually read it though. I'm ass deep in writing for other projects.I have the reverse-engineered 5e thing in the works, a novel, and a simple board game.
>>92542126majority posters just don't like itwhich doesn't mean it's off-topic, but does mean that talking about it makes the thread off-topicso just don't, basically, and don't treat /osrg/ like a general thread for osr games. treat it like a general for 0e and 1e and its most faithful of cloneseven something like hyperborea gets dumped on here and it's basically just cleaned up 1e, though, so good luck actually figuring out what to bring up and what not to
>>92542186Most posters have no trouble figuring this shit out, have you tried not being retarded?>only 0e and 1e>forgot BasicGuess not.
>>92542179>hasn't read it>still going on about 5e>redditspacingjust namefag while you are at it
>>92542205you say that but basically every day or every other day someone brings up a game people don't like and the thread turns into a shitflinger fight
>>92542223Most people who get told "that game's off topic" shrug and go elsewhere, it's not the thread's fault if some of them want to throw a tantrum about it, or that certain people regularly do so
>>92542186Note that I am this guy >>92542126and NOT this guy >>92542205>>92542208I don't want to read glog. I also don't want to read ACKS. I have the clones I prefer (S&S Complete, and Labyrinth Lord).>I am not going on about 5e. I am talking about fistfucking the 5e SRD until I can get from it what I need to make a creative commons B/X without Share Alike.>redditspacingmoot and Snacks both used this spacing, newfriend.
>>92542276>I don't want to read glogDodged a bullet, then, it's a pile of "wouldn't it be interesting if" shit.
Just to be clear, there is a shitflinging faggot loose in this thread trying to shoehorn in discussion of glog and other shit like Shadowdark. There is also ME, who just wanted to know what makes glog off topic, because I like to know things and I want to be able to answer next time someone asks. You know, to make the thread better.Persecute the shitflinging faggot all you like, and I get that I might catch some strays because of anonymity. I'm cool with that. I just want everyone to know there's a legit question and said faggot on the loose here.
>>92542276formatting error, but I am sure you guys can figure it out. the line that starts "I am not" should not be in greentext.
>>92542312You've now posted asking about it enough you could have just read it. It's not a long or difficult read.
>>92542542Perhaps. Like I told one of the anons that I asked that question of, the question is more designed to see if they're an idiot.For the record>If they're saying it's off topic because it's not compatible with B2 or is significantly mechanically different from oD&D, B/X, or 1e, they're right that it's off topic.>If they're saying it's off topic because it uses language from the 3.x SRDs, they're an idiot.The reason that I care if they're an idiot that thinks using the 3.x SRD to make it means it's not OSR is because I am using the 5.x SRD to make a game that that is B/X, for the reason I outlined here >>92542071
>>92542596are you gonna share your shitty heartbreaker here like you did with the gay OSR discord?
>>92542042BFRPG doesn't use XP for gold, so correct, it isn't OSR.OSE is a clone of B/X. The rules of the two are exactly identical, so it has exactly the same status as B/X.Stonehell is a module, not a game.
Hey, wasn't quite sure which thread to ask this in, so went here. Found a cool adventure for Dungeon Crawl Classics that I'd quite like to run, though I find myself hesitant to use DCC itself, as I've heard a lot of bad stuff about it. Would any anons know good systems that might work as a substitute? It's "The Music of the Spheres is Chaos"The adventure itself (or the part of it that hooked me, anyway) is about exploring a dungeon churning with elemental energies, and clearing out a selection of challenges themed after the 4 elements. To do this the party has access to an artifact that lets them shift the dungeon around: the 3 spheres on the map as well as the bridge platform they're on can all be shifted and turned around to unlock different parts of the map, which also has consequences (buffs/weakens different creatures and party members, the more you do it, the stronger the monsters in the dungeon becomes, so there's a real element of weighing when it's worth it)
>>92542744I don't know who you think I am friend, but I haven't shared what I am working on with anyone yet, because I don't need external validation like you kids these days. Also, read the thread for my plans for it.
>>92542764it's a dungeon, run it with any system that can run dungeons genius
>>92542764Just use B/X (get the Moldvay/Cook Basic and Expert sets, or get Labyrinth Lord). The Labyrinth Lord no-art pdf is free.
>>92542596>I'm gonna mangle 5e into a B/X systemSeems like a sisyphean task, and an utterly pointless waste of time since you can't copyright rules, only the expression of them. OSE is not going anywhere.
>>92542796yeah I get that, it's just I'm new to OSR stuff so I don't really know what systems are good. I *could* run it in Pathfinder or D&D 5e or some system like that but that's not really what I'm looking for.>>92542797Thanks, I'll look into that. Appreciate the response.
>>92542810
>>92542810>I *could* run it in Pathfinder or D&D 5e or some system like that but that's not really what I'm looking for.did I say to run it in a system that sucks at running dungeons? Anything with a decent procedure for exploration that isn't "I roll perception" is fine.
>>92542837Yeah that's my bad, should've read through the posts so far before asking.
>>92542800> you can't copyright rules, only the expression of them.By using language directly from the 5.x SRD, I skip the step of needing to write the language that expresses the rules myself. That's the whole point of using the SRD at all.>Seems like a sisyphean taskIt's not nearly as bad as you think.>OSE is not going anywhereIf you trust WotC to not come for the OGL again in a few years, that's fine. However, OSE uses language from the 3.x SRDs, and includes the OGLv1.0a. Nobody knows the legal status of something published under the OGLv1.0a if it's removed and the work republished without a ground-up rewrite. In effect, by using the OGLv1.0a, OSE would need to be rewritten from the ground up because it's current expression was licensed under that agreement.Keep in mind that DriveThruRPG as ready to pull every item that included the OGLv1.0a to avoid legal issues when WotC was trying to revoke the license. You can bet you bottom dollar that Amazon would have done the same thing. WotC may not be able to revoke the license, but if the big stores like storefronts stop carrying the product with it, then those products die anyway.My goal is to create a B/X that can't be fucked over by the OGL situation. S&W did that already, and OSRIC is getting a new edition too forthe same reason. BFRPG did it as well, but the license they used was the Creative Commons v4.0 Share Alike license, meaning if anyone bases any rules content on the book, they have to then release that material under the same CC license.I get that this is legal shitfuckery, and it's not something most people would care about or understand. It's important for a B/X to exist that is just under the creative commons without the share alike clause though.
>>92542883>OSE uses language from the 3.x SRDsIt's not that different. Gavin can port OSE to the 5.x CC SRD in a couple weeks of work tops. I believe he's already said he's planning to do that after he's done with Dolmenwood.
>>92520693Here you go.Might want to limit the use to 1/day.
>>92542883There are B/X clones that do not use the ogl, and have not been sued, because they can't be. You're shadow-boxing.
>>92542905>Gavin can port OSE to the 5.x CC SRD in a couple weeks of work tops.You've clearly never actually tried to do this kind of thing. It would take longer to comb through the existing manuscript for instances of SRD 3.x language than to just write a new manuscript, and writing a new manuscript, then doing the layout and getting it printed is a multi-year project.Don't take me citing you not knowing how long this stuff takes as an insult. Why would you if you weren't a writer, editor, or publisher? I can guarantee you that in OSE's case especially, it would take a minimum of 2 years to recreate OSE from the 5.x SRD, simply because of how heavily formatted the manuscript is. Layout takes a lot of time.Labyrinth Lord would be faster, as it was always a low-effort publication, maybe 9 months or so from the decision to do it to being ready to send it to the printer.
>>92542916Let's say you're right and not just referring to BFRPG 4th edition. So what? I want to get B/X fully into the creative commons and not subject to a share alike clause. That's the goal. That other people put out a B/X clone is irrelevant to my goal.
>>92542596>I'm just wasting everyone's time to be an idiot to see if theyyyyyre idiots Pretending to be retarded is being retarded. Fuck off.
>>92542883If you want to "create a B/X that can't be fucked over by OGL", you need to create something that *isn't B/X*.Even then legal attacks don't require actual truth. Just being a competitor is enough that a rival corporation will try to drown you in legal costs and there's little recourse you have unless you get a pro bono lawyer or some cash.The reality is the courts have mountains of precedent ruling that game rules that are sufficiently part of the normal public consciousness (think solitaire) cannot be copywritten. This applies to TTRPGs as well.If you want to take on the task, that's fine, but I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze until the courts actively say something that threatens the hobby directly. Given that WotC/Hasbro didn't defend its claim to the OSR systems all this time, their case gets weaker with every passing year (they've probably effectively lost claim at this point).Your time is better spent archiving all of these books and booklets in case someone tries to take them down off the internet.
>>92542978I'm not wasting anyone's time but yours, apparently. That you can't read and can't define why glog is off-topic other than "it uses 3.x rules" without ever saying HOW it uses those rules is a little sad. You're dragging the average IQ of the thread down.
>>92542943>I can guarantee you that in OSE's case especially, it would take a minimum of 2 years to recreate OSE from the 5.x SRDI strongly doubt it, but:>>92542957>I want to get B/X fully into the creative commons and not subject to a share alike clause.Now *that's* commendable and worth doing independently of OSE doing it or not, since OSE is definitely not getting (re)released as CC-BY.So I do support your effort, if that's the goal. What's your DD look like right now?
>>92543021>can't define why glog is off-topicNTA. Fuck off, you are not welcome here.
>>92543007>If you want to "create a B/X that can't be fucked over by OGL", you need to create something that *isn't B/X*.Hencre reverse engineering an expression of B/X rules from the 5.x SRD, which is creative commons.>Even then legal attacks don't require actual truth. Just being a competitor is enough that a rival corporation will try to drown you in legal costs and there's little recourse you have unless you get a pro bono lawyer or some cash.The source material being contributed to the creative commons is a complete defense to any legal attacks that could be made.>The reality is the courts have mountains of precedent ruling that game rules that are sufficiently part of the normal public consciousness (think solitaire) cannot be copywritten. This applies to TTRPGs as well.Yes, it does, but not their written expression.>I don't think the juice is worth the squeezeThat's fine. We just disagree.>Your time is better spent archiving all of these books and booklets in case someone tries to take them down off the internet.I will leave that work to others that don't have the urge to do what I am doing. To be clear, that work is important, but not what I am interested in doing.
>>92543061Really? The anon that posted right before you commended me on something I am doing to enrich the OSR. I guess your opinion isn't the prevailing one.>>92543049What's your DD look like right now?Honestly, it's a fucking riot of notes, and about 30 separate documents, and less than 2 dozen pieces of art. I've not done any editing or synthesizing of it into a whole, and am nowhere near the point of doing layout. Once I finish the manuscript, I can do the editing of it down to something that will fit in 110ish pages, not counting tables. It'll get fluffed up to 128 pages with art after that, and then probably 8 pages of various tables and procedures at the end, similar to how the original 2e PHB had all those tables compiled at the end. If I go past 8 pages of tables and procedure reference at the end, I'll go to 16 pages and make up the difference in the manuscript section with more art.
>>92543117Weeks? Months? Q4 2024?More importantly, are you managing to resist the urge to make any changes, however small, to the original rules? That is one of the key reasons for OSE's success. I do think B/X is perfectible, but there is no universal agreement on how to do that, so people tend to prefer the actual flawed version of BX to any "improved" version.
>>92543191There will be no changes to the rules, though I am often tempted to include option rules sidebars like S&W complete does to put in my own "fixes". Whether or not I do drop in a few optional rule sidebars, the rules of the game outside of those optional rules will be completely unaltered.
>>92543191As for release date estimate? Your guess is as good as mine, since I have to work to feed myself and I refuse to do a kickstarter for this project. More broadly, I think it's shitty to do a kickstarter for any game that is not done except for final layout (inserting art into spaces reserved for art, etc).
>>92543202>the game outside of those optional rules will be completely unaltered.Are you leaving the spell description for Detect Invisible blank?
>>92543243Heh. In cases where there is an obvious mistake like leaving out whole spells, I'll take a look at how the same or similar spells work in BEC of BECMI (and of course LL, BFRPG, and OSE), and do my absolute best to get it right.
>>92543307FOE!Detect Invisible just works in B/X RAW No explanation necessary Pic related. How I sleep knowing exactly how a spell works from two words
>>92541414>the OD&D wording is absolutely asinine and just short of deliberately calculated to confuseThis is correct for effectively every part of OD&D. In order to understand the LBBs, you must first understand the LBBs. They're famously obtuse.
>>92542276Moot was a newfag. Bring back WT Snacks
>>92542755>The rules of the two are exactly identicalExcept where they aren't. But that's good because it's better and you can't parse a game written for 80s kids, right?>>92542312>>92542778>>92542837>>92542022Avatarfagging is a bannable offense
>>92544833Being a wannabe mod should be a bannable offense
/osrg/ where you come to argue about what belongs in /osrg/
>>92544889If fags would just read the OP and stop being retarded it'd be fine. Too much to ask, I guess
I've heard about OSR and considered getting into it, but I'm hesitant because I'm not a fan of old JRPGs and I've heard OSR is similar. Specifically, the focus on dungeon crawls where you have random encounters every several steps. I always disliked these because it seemed like an annoying tax on your time where you have to slog through the same thing over and over, dreading it'll happen again as you explore. Is that how OSR is?
>>92544995yes, OSR stands for Orientals Slogging Randomly
going to try to get my play group of 5etards to give B/X a try. after learning and playing alone a bit, i find the rules simple, but i know that isn't going to be the case for everyone. is there anything you recommend to give to new players to help them along? picrel is from the King's Festival module, which i think i will run for them, though i wonder if there is a better reference sheet for players just to prevent questions or uncertainty. everything they need SHOULD be on their character sheet, but i know my group and i know there will be questions on mechanics/rules.
>>92544995Random encounter checks happen every other "dungeon turn" (which is 10 minutes of in game time either moving or performing an action like picking a lock or searching a room)The standard check has a 1 in 6 chance of an encounter. So on average you'll get 1 encounter every 2 hours of in-game time in the dungeon
>>92544995in old JRPGs you are spamming the a button to brainlessly attack the enemy while your dudes stand in a row. random encounters in OSR can be an incredibly deadly situation and will need to be handled with care by the players. it is a tense part of the gameplay and nothing like getting into a random battle in a video game.
every time I see b/x raw I am re-shocked at how shitty they made twohanded weaponswith just 13 strength a fighter is doing 2-9 damage which is already basically a d10, he has his other hand available for whatever, he is not attacking last. logically speaking he doesn't have to carry it in one hand whilst not in combat either, a normal sword can reasonably be sheathed or unsheathed, not so with a two handed sword or polearmit's barely even worth it if you make them d12s and let them attack in normal initiative. the tradeoffs are just so shittyit requires basically a total shitbrewing or just using "everything onehanded deals 1d6, twohanders deal 2d6" but that's ultra boring and lowers the damage of based swords
>>92545491it leaves the DM design space for treasure. make cool two-handed weapons that are worth using.
>>92544995This guy >>92545277 is right, but it's also important to point out that "encounter" does NOT mean "combat" in OSR. Reaction rolls are supposed to be rolled for any encounter where the outcome is uncertain, and they include friendly and neutral responses as well as hostile ones.
>>92545491It's just classic Bad At Math desu, players also didn't pick up on this for literally decades and still in the 2e era were thirsting for two-handers that were seen as """OP""". Normies just lack the requisite autismforce to see through basic addition.
>>92542764Just know that DCC RPG rules are pretty different than D&D. I found DCC RPG characters to be more powerful. So it the DCC module you want to run is, say 2d level, the D&D characters might need to be higher than that.I've never tried to run a DCC RPG module as a D&D adventure, but I want to. Come back and tell us how it goes afterwards.
>>92545272I did this recently (although my group is more PF2e/SWADE types). It went fine. Show them the players guide at the end of this: https://lithyscaphe.blogspot.com/p/principia-apocrypha.html (the last few pages). When I explained the difference in the lethality of the world and the mechanics of the game my players intuitively "got it" and picked it up very quickly.
>>92545526I will go further and say that it's the "wandering monster" table, not the "random encounter" table. Wandering monsters are like guard patrols. They are in the area, but there are ways to avoid them entirely if you wish and the circumstances allow, no reaction roll at all.
>>92544995Wandering Monsters are not always hostile. They aren't even always monsters--"monsters" is just the term for anything that is placed in the wilderness or dungeon. You could roll for wandering monsters and end up generating a friendly adventuring party that is willing trade or help the PCs.Experienced DMs create even more complexity with their random encounters in the wilderness by including elements in their game such as weather, terrain features/hazards, initial monster goals/obstacles/actions, variable distance, etc. Most of this is also true in dungeons as well.Ultimately, OSR is more of a game of resource management, puzzle-solving, and good decision-making. If your players are less theater kid and more autistic model train kid, OSR will be what they enjoy I guarantee.
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>>92546007>>92546024rekd
>>92546024created two minutes later, jannies delete
hate getting an idea that's perfect for osr sandbox "explore for loot" campaign settings but it's so fucking far out there that I'd have to shitbrew a ton of shit to adequately portray it and then also somehow convince my friends to play in it while telling them "there's no dwarves, the elves are all gone besides the dark elves, expect aliens, swords, evil sorcerers, laser pistols, and frizzy-haired 1980s amazon catgirls on a desert planet with a dying sun and a capital W Weird hollow earth/underdark full of aliens and strange magic treasure" when basically all they want is dwarves and elves fantasywhich I mean, I like, but now I'm just going to spend a week vomiting up more shitbrew and tables and art and stuff I'll never use outside of solo games
>>92539244You just invented Hyperborea.
>>92546271>>92546058I replied to the wrong post...
>>92544833> >>92542837(Me)> >>92542022(Me)>Avatarfagging is a bannable offenseI didn't even create those images. They're just good infographics for n00bs.
>>92542778>>92522460Fuck off you spamming infection.
