>"Wow, the Imperium is so grimdark...">"Except the vast majority of planets are Civilized Worlds with lifestyles comparable to modern Earth.">"And quite a bunch of worlds are idyllic Agri-worlds and Paradise Worlds where people lie happy quaint peaceful lives.">"And most worlds will go their entire existence without ever encountering the galactic wars being waged.">"And the Imperial Creed is very reasonable and willing to accept all sorts of different beliefs so long as they can be loosely tied to worshipping the Emperor in some indirect way.">"And the Imperium actually has a lot of sanctioned xenos that it allows to thrive on their own planets so long as humanity remains the dominant species.">"And the Imperium is actually technologically advancing at a steady and safe pace thanks to Cawl.">"And the Imperium has reasonable and competent people in charge now including good men like Guilliman.">"And the Imperial Guard is actually very intelligent with their tactics and only takes the elite from the PDFs of each world and is well-equipped."This isn't sounding like a very grimdark setting.
Yes, people always wanted to turn the Imperium into the hero faction.
>>92664519Well sure but those places aren’t interesting so you’re more likely to hear about the violent shitholes, or one of the idyllic places suddenly becoming a shithole. Also, the most enlightened leaders will still kill a billion to save a billion and one so there’s that.
>>92664519Yeah the setting isn't very well written. But don't worry, if you object to the lack of grimdark in those things, there's plenty of examples of absolutely retarded grimdark for you. Read anything modern about Krieg or that one thing about agri-worlds everybody jerks off about.
>to make a setting make sense>it either has to be grimderp where agriworlds are unsustainably farming and destroying their own futures and no-one asks how this has been working for 10,000 years>or practically utopian because how else could an empire hold together if the people in it were being thrown onto stakes by the terminally incompetent every five minutesWow. Deep.Isn't it all just one line descriptions of places in the books (not army books, book books) that aren't even consistent with all the other books?Like how if a book from 10 years ago said "The Imperial Guard" or "The Squat ate some food" or "The all male Custodes", that Imperium doesn't exist anymore.
Literally all nulore. The less an imperial city looks like mordhiem with cyber bits the less canon it is.
>>92664519>wow! The newest lore is shit and I only the setting through 4chan posts and memes We have a fucking general foe this shit. Use it and stop wasting space on /tg/.
>>92664519Two of those are NuCanon are shitty. The rest of those lack context and are framed to sound less grimdark.>"Wow, the Confederate States were so evil with their slavery...">"Except the slaves weren't homeless and had food to eat.">"And most slave owners wouldn't dare to harm their property.">"And families got to grow up with jobs secured in the future."Do you see how retarded you sound?
>>92666103yes, arabs proved that slaves should be castrated. Your point?
>>92666207NTA but that is literally entirely irrelevant and you have terminal /pol/ brainrot
>>92666099Best post in thread
>>92664519>>"Except the vast majority of planets are Civilized Worlds with lifestyles comparable to modern Earth."Citation needed.
>>92666103No it's worse, this shit is like 5-7th ed stuff, we actually get to see modern imperium in books, it's dogshit...necromunda is all about showing how dogshit living in the imperium is.
>>92664519Stop putting quotes in green text newgfag.
>>92666099>wasting space on /tg/Oh no! We're going to run out of threads! You have to reduce your carbon emissions right now anon and save threads by killing yourself.
Female custodes lol
BRRRRRAAAAAAPPP FRRRT PRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPPPPPHHHHHHTTT FRUP FART FRRRRRPPPPPLPPP BBBBRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPP PLAP BLOOOOORT BURBLEBURBLR FRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAP huff huff BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPP heave heave PLOP! PHRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTFFDFFFFPPPPPTT VVRRRRRRRTT BRRRRRAPPPPPPPPPPPPPP GRK PLSH FFFFFFFFFFRRRRRRRRTTTT
>>92670368Based.
>>92664519I'm too tired to explain why you're wrong about everything. Every time I do it gets me nothing, and you just stay belligerent about your wrongness. But like how abhumans were explicitly allowed to exist by the emperor but they were not to be accepted, and this caused them to side with Horus. In turn, during the 40th millennia they're taught their very existence is a sin and they must fight and die because of it, but they're not allowed to all die because the emperor didn't originally want them to. These are people that cannot ever live a good life. But no, totally Noble Bright. Dumb fuck. Read a book.
>>92666103>And most slave owners wouldn't dare to harm their property."Lol. Lmao.
>>92666222No anon. Your shitty Confederate analogy fell flat.
>>92664519Tau do all that but better
>>92664519>Salamander were noteworthy for their humanity when other SM where merely weapon with little left>Now every SM is a paragon of mankindBiggest devolution here
>>92664519>idyllic Agri-worldshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Agri_World
>>92664519I wish the GW would make more imperial worlds that weren't just huge gothic cities full of skulls.Like Jopall, I wish we can get more diversity in the imperial forces
>>92664519>"Wow, the Imperium is so grimdark...">"ExceptNope. You fucked up, you read some shitty novel, you listened to some Youtuber regurgitating "lore", or you internalised a fan theory on social media. Supping from the trough of endless content is a mistake. 40K is the models you build and paint, and the games you play. Go back to the first page of the first rulebook. In the grim darkness of the far future, there is *only* war.
>>92664666I don’t get why
>>92664519>>"Except the vast majority of planets are Civilized Worlds with lifestyles comparable to modern Earth."The Imperium has some worlds like this. But 99% of the Imperium's population live on hive worlds, which are shitholes. Even if a lot of the actual planets might be pretty okay in the aggregate (though there's plenty of worlds that might not even get above primitive status, such as some Astartes recruiting planets), the sheer population packed onto hive worlds means most of the Imperium's people are there.
>>92664519Hundreds of authors have worked on this setting over several decades. Within some rough confines you can likely find something to support almost any view of the setting. It's not like there aren't people nowadays who live in the exact same place with one guy saying it's a paradise and the other one claiming it's a dystopia. I'd recommend having several different degrees of grimdark in it at once. The Imperium is big. No reason it can't have all of them at the same time.
>>92666099Fuck off. Like it or not, /tg/ is a 40k board. We just let the rest of you rent space here.
>>92671382And how old is that lore? When people say 40k isn't grimdark anymore, we are talking about the modern state of the lore. And we say that, because the modern lore isn't grimdark. It's modern, generic sci-fi bullshit that is piggybacking off of what the setting used to be.
>>92673373But I prefer playing 40K RPGs to playing the wargame, and RPGs require more lore. I also want the setting to make at least some sense. Like, it's fine for it to be grimdark and over the top, but some of the most grimdark takes I've seen paint a picture of an Imperium that could not possibly have survived for 10,000 years.
>>92666088This art is great. I miss illustrations like this. They don't make em like this anymore.
>>92664519>idyllic Agri-worldsand then come Tyranids. IIRC there is some book about it
>>92672399The grimdark nonsense written here is directly contradicted by every specific description of an agri-world that exists. Also, fuck the faggot mush brained maggot that wrote "swell-bellied landers", landers do not look any fucking different whether full or empty and this purple prose is fucking painfully bad. And again, it doesn't hold up at all. Right there on the page, pick an agri-world at random and see how close it lines up. Here's three for an example:Water world with untouched interior forests:>Khai-Zhan is a water-world with 98.3% of its surface covered in shallow oceans, and possesses only one substantial land mass. The environment of the planet is noted to be particularly stable due to having little tectonic and tidal activity. The latter is a result of having two moons that are both distant and of low mass. Thus, any disturbances to the world's single continent and massive oceans are minimal.Just a bunch of farming towns, no giant chem dumps that poison the air or radiation belts:>As an Agri-world, Gereon is home to a variety of forests and large fields that were used to grow a wide array of staple crops. Bocage was a common type of terrain found on Gereon, and the world was also covered by several wide oceans. The first settlers of Gereon made use of every available bit of farmland save for the region known as the "Untill."This one is literally described as idyllic:>Most of Aexe Cardinal's geography is unknown, but the terrain of the nation-state of Aexegary was idyllic, with a large number of forests, fields, and rivers in picturesque scenes, dotted with orderly towns and villages. However, near the battle lines, the terrain became muddy and more desolate, the product of forty Terran years of unrelenting war. Blasted trees and great muddy plains covered the area between the Aexe Alliance and Shadik lines, punctuated here and there by a ruined structure that had managed to survive the near-constant shelling.
>>92679889>Paint a picture of an Imperium that could not possibly have survived for 10,000 yearsJeez, no one tell this guy about fiction, it might ruin his favorite toytism
>>92664519>"Except the vast majority of planets are Civilized Worlds with lifestyles comparable to modern Earth."Existing through the lens of 40k.>"And quite a bunch of worlds are idyllic Agri-worlds and Paradise Worlds where people lie happy quaint peaceful lives."The ones that have money. The majority are working hospitality.>"And most worlds will go their entire existence without ever encountering the galactic wars being waged."You don't need a current war to be a shithole or a hellhole.>"And the Imperial Creed is very reasonable and willing to accept all sorts of different beliefs so long as they can be loosely tied to worshipping the Emperor in some indirect way.""I don't care about the colour of the plow, so long as it plows.">"And the Imperium actually has a lot of sanctioned xenos that it allows to thrive on their own planets so long as humanity remains the dominant species."Slavery with a side of genocidal threat.>>"And the Imperium is actually technologically advancing at a steady and safe pace thanks to Cawl."Neither truly steady nor entirely safe. Primaris marines suffering their primarch's curse after Cawl & Co 'solved' that should prove as much.>"And the Imperium has reasonable and competent people in charge now including good men like Guilliman."As well as unreasonable and incompetent people opposing / maliciously complying with them.>"And the Imperial Guard is actually very intelligent with their tactics and only takes the elite from the PDFs of each world and is well-equipped."Something that isn't entirely sufficient for the wars they're thrown into.>This isn't sounding like a very grimdark setting.This isn't sounding like a good faith OP.
Most of this is just made up.Agri-worlds would be hellish and if you don’t know why you’re probably a baby, paradise worlds are for a vanishingly small minority of elites to enjoy, sanctioned xenos are near unheard of and mostly slaves. Forcibly maiming all faith into a cargo-cult worship of some dead warlord half a galaxy away is a bad thing. Cawl coming out with some new patterns of guns from millennia ago does not equate to progress, and yes, the army that has held the galaxy for the last 10,000 years actually knows how to fight wars.Sorry the Imperium is not always treated like the lolrandom bunch of clowns somehow running the dominant power in the galaxy by accident like in your reddit memes.
>>92680267See >>92680199
>>92680226Anon, are you familiar with concepts such as "verisimilitude" or "internal consistency"?
>>92680331Games Workshop isn't
>>92664519Idiots take.Let's read about the life of what is effectively an upper middle class worker from Dan Abnetts Titanicus, the best 40k book ever written.> one of the protags is the young wife of a cargo loader senior> had to work 100s of unpaid overtime hours to get cert> cert got him permission to move to world that the story is set on because his skills were in high demand> lives in a three bedroom hab> still lives in crowded commie block> dinner described as crusty bead loaf> not guruanteed hot water> not allowed to have children, has to be high enough rated worker to get permissionThis is a middle class life of a high demand worker. You can't even get hot water and you can't even have a kid. Sounds like a shit life to me
>>92680369So basically the "grimdark" future is no worse off than, say, Mexico.
>>92680379>not allowed to have children>mexican
>>92680407Okay so more like China then (until fairly recently).
>>92680413The Imperium being intergalactic China is pretty fucking grimdark
>>92664519Except thats all wrong.
>>92679397It's the POV faction. People don't actually like stories about evil people.
>>92664519>>"Except the vast majority of planets are Civilized Worlds with lifestyles comparable to modern Earth."No they are not. >>"And quite a bunch of worlds are idyllic Agri-worlds and Paradise Worlds where people lie happy quaint peaceful lives."You dont understand what agri worlds or paradise worlds are. Agri worlds are the "space kolkhoz", industrialized farming where the serf-like peons of the imperium work in horrible conditions before being turned into fertilizer. Paradise worlds are space epstein island, luxury resorts for the fabulously wealthy where their every need and whim is catered to at the expense of all the slaves and servants attending them - and massive numbers of resources extracted from other worlds.>>"And most worlds will go their entire existence without ever encountering the galactic wars being waged."No, they will just suffer any number of the minor incursions, raids, revolts or planetary disasters that happen beyond the major galactic conflicts, or be caught in the proximity of one or more of the above and suffer crippling resource extraction to try and compensate. >>"And the Imperial Creed is very reasonable and willing to accept all sorts of different beliefs so long as they can be loosely tied to worshipping the Emperor in some indirect way."The imperial creed will accept whatever position it has to to maintain hegemonic power over the populace, it will then use that power to quash any unorthodox cultural traits as and when it is able to, because that is its purpose.
>>92680594Is that in any book or are you just extrapolating shit based on reddit memes?
>>92680594>>92664519>>92664519>"And the Imperium actually has a lot of sanctioned xenos that it allows to thrive on their own planets so long as humanity remains the dominant species."It doesent, its literally embroiled in genocidal war as a matter of dogmatic policy, and only strays from said policy when it lacks the resources to engage in it.>>"And the Imperium is actually technologically advancing at a steady and safe pace thanks to Cawl."They arent. Some guy making a slightly bigger plasma gun doesent fix the all-pervasive levels of tech illiteracy and scientific regression. The primaris masterblasters arent going to undo the fact that imperials think their toaster is sentient and needs ritual appeasement. >>"And the Imperium has reasonable and competent people in charge now including good men like Guilliman."Meaning there is one dude with passable excel knowledge at the highest level of government. What joy. Surely this will undo millennia of bureaucratic rot! Just ignore his inability to implement any meaningful reforms because of said rot and the entrenched power structures of the imperium,>>"And the Imperial Guard is actually very intelligent with their tactics and only takes the elite from the PDFs of each world and is well-equipped."The elite of the PDF are still fodder because the PDF are absolute garbage. The "very intelligent" tactics of the guard are meat assaults which see them try and leverage a resource advantage against the enemy 99% of the time, and result in enormous casualties as a matter of course.
>>92680620Lords of silence. Space kolkhoz is putting it very mildly.
>>92680331Lookit this dude, expecting verisimilitude and consistency from what amounts to overgrown toy advertisements. If you got fluff issues I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems, but a parasocial relationship to an IP ain't one.
>>92680727I don't have fluff issues. I pick and choose what I like, ignoring the dumbest extremes of grimderpness.
The Emperor is the master of a million worlds, there's bound to be exceptions. Frankly, things have never been as dark as they are right now. The galaxy is split in half and all those on the northern side are getting mega fucked by every faction but the Tau, and it's canon the Golden Throne is going to fail in the next two hundred years. Things have never been this bad. When people make these threads I want to strangle them. You just don't know what you're talking about.
>>92664519>"Wow, the Imperium is so grimdark...">The vast majority of planets are over-industrialized worlds where billions labour in shells of cities to provide resources, under the direction of people deliberately inbred to make them more manipulatable by the Imperium.>The few worlds that aren't, are either places where a special resource has made them influential, or where they've had no great relevancy so with an efficient enough effort they can manage their taxation.>Most worlds will either be forgotten about by the Imperium, unless its taxes time, and/or will be the subject to horrors that make their crushing daily life seem pleasant, which can be caused if a single person relaxes, and the Gods are feeling bored.>The Imperial Creed is very reasonable and can be altered to fit cultures, however it's practiced by people that don't understand the meaning of the words they preach, and the dogma defines their whole legal system.
>>92680809>The Imperium actually has a lot of sanctioned xenos that it allows to thrive on their own planets. However the vast teeming masses of uneducated zealots sustained in life only through dogma will kill anything that doesn't look like them. This can be innocent aliens, ones working to their interests, or even foreign enough humans.>The Imperium is actually technologically advancing at a steady and safe pace thanks to the Admech, but due to economics and information-hoarding, very few ever see any of this, and it tends to be a regression for anyone less wealthy or well-supplied than a space marine chapter.>The Imperium has reasonable and competent people in charge now including good men like Guilliman. However it's also full of learned sociopaths, greedy men, and people with no comprehension of their actions save their own interests and survival. They will doom worlds by signing the wrong forms, just to see if anyone would notice. There are many truly gifted and dedicated souls out there doing everything they can. But there are just as many out there that are there to use the system for their own, because you need ambition and self-interest to get anywhere.>The Imperial Guard is actually very intelligent with their tactics and only takes the elite from the PDFs of each world and is well-equipped. However they can only field one form of arms per battlegroup to deliberately leave them vulnerable 'in case of heresy', and high-up commanders know that the soldiers are literally worth less than the weapons they carry, and run mass charges with high casualty rates because they're the most efficient time, resource, and economics wise over trying to keep their men alive and using resources.
>>92680809>>92680820A lot of these are open to interpretation since GW gives zero fucks about consistency, but as a general rule, the IoM can't be as dysfunctional as the grimderp purists and the tau powerwanker insist, otherwise it would have collapsed millennia ago. Most of the extreme examples of dysfunction are outlier events rather than normal>However they can only field one form of arms per battlegroup This is just plain wrong though. Mixing different regiments of different specializations into a more balanced battlegroup has been the norm since early editionsNot to mention that true combined armed forces show up all the time in lore, since GW doesn't care about most of its own "rules"
>>92666103About not daring to harm their property:It was illegal for slave owners to kill their slaves, and it was a capital offense to do so. For example, in 1839 a slave owner named John Hoover was convicted by a jury of other slave owners of the crime of murder for killing his slave, a woman named Mira. He appealed to the North Carolina Supreme Court, which upheld his sentence, and then he was hanged.Slaves also had some rights to self defense against their owners. For example, the North Carolina v. Negro Will case held that slaves who defended themselves against their owners could not be convicted of murder, but at most of manslaughter.
>>92670264lmao even
>>92680809Most planets aren't over-industrialised. Forge worlds are, fortress worlds, armoury worlds, and hive worlds are, but those are a minority of the Imperium's planets (hive worlds make up like 10-20% of the total). Civilised worlds are the most common world.
>>92680809>unless its taxes timeand if they forgot to collect last cycles taxes because the forms for it got lost. You now owe back taxes.
>>92664519The Imperium is vast and heterogeneous enough that whatever reasonable stuff exists does so at the fickle whims of whoever is both aware of it and able to do something about it. An Inquisitor from another sector might see the sanctioned Xenos, the unusual variant of the Imperial Creed, and, not knowing whatever local arrangements the Administratum and Ecclesiarchy have made, declare it all heretical and hit the Exterminatus button. Or, upon becoming aware of those arrangements, purge the officials responsible. For every idyllic Agri-World there’s another where conditions are akin to serfdom or worse. For every world that sends only the best of its PDF to join the Imperial Guard, there’s more who have to scrape together whatever idiots they can just to fulfill the Tithe. And your run-of-the-mill Civilized World is always just one Warp jump away from becoming a warzone.>>92684676That’s one state, North Carolina law doesn’t apply outside of North Carolina. Go over to Tennessee and you’d see Andrew Jackson offering a $10 bonus for every 100 lashes given to an escaped slave on top of the reward capturing him, going up to a potentially lethal 300 lashes (admittedly, he gave similar treatment to the soldiers under his command, so that’s more Jackson’s views on discipline than on race). I don’t want to get too off topic, but it’s an example of how diverse and complex that topic is due to the different jurisdictions, time periods and other factors, which is essentially what the 40k discussion is about.>>92688667Or even if you paid those taxes last time, but they can’t find the receipts.
>>92691158>there’s more who have to scrape together whatever idiots they can just to fulfill the TitheNah, the lore clearly states that most planetary governors take the Tithe extremely seriously since sending subpar troops is one of the few things that can get them removed by the IoMThe subpar troops start showing up only during major meatgrinders where the PDF/warrior caste/etc of worlds near the conflict zone have been severely depleted
>>92664519The idea that the Imperium is infinitely retarded and self destructive is all memes but then the setting is "built" to support a wargame where 99% of the focus is on that aspect.
>>92664519>no you see the hyper-oppressive theocracy that gleefully stomps on the lives of countless quadrilions is actually fine because they are pragmatic to a degreeNo. Just own the fact that Imperials are backwards and evil. It's part of the fun.
>>92680594See >>92680199Stop lying. Agri-worlds are mostly quite nice and pleasant.
>>92693609See: "All agri worlds are of similar size, located in similar orbital zones within their void systems and subject to specific exposure to a prescribed spectrum of solar radiation. Their soils have to be within a tight compositional range, and they have to be close to major supply worlds.The Imperium is not a gentle custodian of such places. After discovery of a candidate planet, the first fifty years are spent in terraforming according to well-worn Martian procedures. All pre-existing life is scrubbed from the rocks, either by the application of controlled virus-chewers or by timed flame-drops. The atmosphere is regulated, first through the actions of gigantic macro-processors and thereafter by a land-based network of control units, more commonly referred to as command nodes. Weather, as least as generally understood, disappears. Rainfall becomes a matter of controlled timing, governed by satellites in low orbit and kept in line by fleets of dirigibles. The empty landscape is divided up into colossal production zones, each patrolled by crawlers and pest-thopters. Millions of base-level servitors are imported, kept at the very lowest level of cognitive function but bulked up by a ruthless level of muscle-binders."
>>92694163and"There is a quaint tradition in the various propaganda departmentos of the Administratum of marketing agri worlds as quasi-paradises, free of the squalor and overcrowding of a standard urban station, and full of bucolic ease. Vid-cards are dropped into communal hab-warrens, extolling the virtues of a life lived outdoors with the sun on your back and a ruddy-faced boy or girl – subject to preference – by your side. In reality, life on an agri world is as unrelenting, back-breaking and monotonous as the vast majority of other Imperial vocations. There are no trees laden with glossy fruit, only kilometre after kilometre of hissing corn.There are no gentle strolls under the warming sun, only punishing work details in rad-suits, leaning into the dust-laden winds that howl around the equator with nothing to halt their rampage. Once the new arrivals have made planetfall and found this out, it is too late. Crew transports arrive on agri worlds full and leave empty. There is a saying among the indentured workers – you come for the soil, you end up part of it."
>In the grim darkness of the far future there is only warIs it that hard to accept?
>>92691387Then why do they have armies of chem brainwashed guys or ganger retards with bomb collars?
>>92694163Yes I read the autistic grimderp, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. All three of those examples I posted are agri-worlds listed on the same page as your grimderp nonsense, and I just picked them at random.
>>92694163>All agri worlds are Well it's already wrong and can be discarded.
>>92670264this, those two words completely obliterate 40k as a setting.
>>92664519>And the Imperium is actually technologically advancing at a steady and safe pace thanks to CawlWho? You mean some fanfics that happened after 5th edition? I'll stick to canon.It's pretty grimdark, despite the occasional noblebright.
>>92666088Correct take. If I’m not powered by eldritch technologies walking through sewage filled streets and cut throat urchins wielding broken off transparasteel - it’s not Warhammer.
>>92680002They cost money and skillGW works on a shoe string budget you know....
>>92694163>>92694172Individual GW/BL authors are always coming up with new "rules" for the setting that other authors end up ignoring>>92695404Those kinds of guys only show up for the major meatgrinders, when professional soldiers are either used up or can't be found in sufficient numbers for the task at hand>>92666088>>92697378It is actually the opposite, earlier editions stressed the diversity of Imperial worlds, the trend towards a unified medievalpunk look only started recently
>>92673373>In an Imperium of 500 trillion >The Emperor eats 1k psykers every day >That's 365k people per year. >Today, 480k people die from smoking per year >Even if you just count psykers, the risk of being eaten by the Emperor is statistically insignificant compared to the actual risk of smoking in 2024. That doesn't sound very grikmdark to me.
>>92679889>But I prefer playing 40K RPGs to playing the wargame, and RPGs require more lore.No they don't. If anything, Rogue Trader was a miniatures RPG. >I also want the setting to make at least some sense. Like, it's fine for it to be grimdark and over the top, but some of the most grimdark takes I've seen paint a picture of an Imperium that could not possibly have survived for 10,000 years.See, this is the problem. "It's so grimdark that it doesn't make sense to me, so in my own headcanon it can't be that grimdark, so 40K isn't that grimdark". People forget that 40K isn't a real place or time. It's a system of generating endless, ludicrously violent encounters that satirises warfare while it does so. The minute someone starts looking for peaceful farming in 40K, they've messed up.
>>92702096No one cares about the lore in rogue trader and first edition. It's the mechanical lobotomy religious hellscape that kicked things off. If you showed a picture of a generic farmstead but the farmer has a lasgun no one's gonna point and say "oh yeah, that's warhammer, totally 40k vibes".
>>92703177>No they don't.Have you never played an RPG before? Not all of them are endless combat encounters>>92703256When I say earlier editions I mean 3rd to 5th, when 40k first became popular but before the corporate types felt they needed to flanderize the fuck out of the setting for copyright reasons Check out the 3rd edition core rulebook description of typical planets, the 4th edition Guard codex, or the Dark Heresy RPGs that came out in 5th edition
>>92703177Obviously you're wrong, 40k is meant to be a setting for RPGs, hence the existence of the FFG games and the widely acclaimed videogame Rogue Trader based on their version of it. You honestly could not be more wrong about this, and it's embarrassing to be so matter of fact in your bald denial of reality, like some tranny trying to insist upon their made up gender label.
Of course it isn't grimdark, it's only wholesome valid heckerinos around here. Even Ciaphas Cain agrees. Do you agree anon?https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/1ckb903/ciaphas_cain_says_trans_rights_and_uh_j%C3%BCrgen_is/
>>92666103>wouldn't harm their property Uh yeah? Slaves cost as much as a high end vehicle today ($200,000+) and if you went full Roots/12 Years a Slave/Buck Breaking on a slave then guess what? THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO WORK. It's the equivalent of driving your car off a cliff because the turn signal doesn't work anymore.
Yes but murder.
>>92704878why doesn't he transition then? huh? huh? if he likes trans people so much?40k almost certainly considers trans people mutant, heretic and witch lol. they're probably just passively disliked, like ugly people. doubt the setting at large has the energy to hate or defend them with xenos about>>92703922>>92704081nta but the wargame and associated imagery is by far the most unified representation of wh40k. there are other stories and worldbuilding elements, and rpg systems, but I think it's pretty accurate to say that a schizophrenic system of violent encounters is central to how *most* people look at the lore; the lore is always reflective of it>you said something I don't like, this is preposterous, you should be embarassed, you are not just wrong and stupid bt denying reality!!!, trannies for some reason, bla bla blalol
>>92694163>>92694172>WE'RE GONNA STRIP FARM THE PLANET!!!!!>5 years later>oh fuck we can't grow spesscorn anymore >20 hive worlds starve >1,000,000,000,000 people starve and are turned into CORPSESTARCH >this is a net positive for the sector Grimderp is so fucking stupid. I can write more Grimdark taking a fucking shit vs the entire Black Library's "authors".
>>92705522>nta but the wargame and associated imagery is by far the most unified representation of wh40kTrue, but the original discussion was about what a typical agriworld looks likeAsk a casual fan about what they envision when they think about 40k and they will probably say a Space Marine shooting things or something like thatBut ask a casual fan what a typical agriworld looks like, and you will get all sorts of answers depending on what sources they are familiar with, or what aesthetics they like. Most would just straight up not care. Not many will say 100% of agriworlds are industrial hellscapes just because one source said so, unless they are only familiar with that source and no others
>>92680369>Dan AbnettDan Abnett’s contributions have largely been disastrous for 40K.
>>92664519source
>>92670368I'm imagining the smell.
>>92666028Many empires have limped along long after they should have fallen. How the fuck did the Roman Empire survive the entire 3rd century of crisis? As one example
>>92664519>the vast majority of planets are Civilized Worlds with lifestyles comparable to modern EarthSays who?>idyllic agri-worldSure, planetary industial-grade harvesting of gene-selected monoplantations by machinized servitors and menials sounds comfy>"And the Imperial Creed is very reasonable and willing to accept all sorts of different beliefs so long as they can be loosely tied to worshipping the Emperor in some indirect way."Until it doesn't anymore>"And the Imperium actually has a lot of sanctioned xenosKek what? You mean abhumans?>"And the Imperium is actually technologically advancing at a steady and safe pace thanks to Cawl.">"And the Imperium has reasonable and competent people in charge now including good men like Guilliman."Everything written after 7th edition isn't canon, sorry>"And the Imperial Guard is actually very intelligent with their tactics and only takes the elite from the PDFs of each world and is well-equipped."Always had been.
>>92664519Agri worlds are not idyllic, they're massive industrial agriculture factories where fertilizer and insecticide chokes the airParadise worlds are only idyllic for the top 0.001% who get to stay there as vacation, the rest live behind the walls in the usual imperial squalor when they're not on duty playing theme park mascotEven if the majority of -planets- are civilized worlds, the vast majority of -people- live in hives
>>92704081>40k is meant to be a setting for RPGs...I know. I pointed out that the original Rogue Trader miniatures game was an RPG. The question is, "what is the RPG about". Perhaps the power of technology and science? Maybe some kind of fellowship, reasonable cooperation, you know, common humanity? Maybe it's about the progress that the human race has made or is yet to make, or maybe some understanding of how a galactic society could concievably function? Boy, if only there were some preexisting foundational text to which we could refer that kind of sets the bounds of 40K. You know, that defines it as a setting. Maybe I should just check that old book once more.
>>92664519>Want to make a post slandering the Imperium and 40K as a whole>Unironically slanders everything bad about 40K now40K was never grimdark outside of a few books or some gigs in the 90s.
>>92664519>"Wow, the Imperium is so grimdark...">"Except the vast majority of planets are Civilized Worlds with lifestyles comparable to modern Earth."Yeah, exactly
>>92680820>However the vast teeming masses of uneducated zealots sustained in life only through dogma will kill anything that doesn't look like them.Classic liberal outlook. "If you're a bigot chud, you must be some dumb uneducated redneck." In truth the elites are perhaps even more xenophobic, ruthlessly principled and more vigilant than the common men. Even Radical Inquisitors flirting with heresy tend to do it from a viewpoint of total Human supremacy and contempt, the subversive Cold War realpolitik diplomat to the hawkish and inflexible warmongers.If anything, the elitist Imperial upper classes assume that the unwashed masses are likely to consort with or be mutants, and that the Innsmouth-looking backwater provincials are all covertly dealing with xenos. And they're usually right.
>>92680199Based.
>>92707150>Everything written after 7th edition isn't canon, sorryExcept the text people like quoting saying all agri-worlds are industrial shitholes comes from a novel released during 8th edition. Most sources prior to that depicted some form of Space Kansas
>>92708565>Space KansasI wonder what their space barbecue is like
>>92670368I wish my gf farted like that on my face
>>92664519At least some of those have been retconned recently. Just sayin.
>>92705691Just dope the soil. The Imperium isn't sustianable by nature. How many Forge Worlds are giant hellscapes that strip mine entire planets and should be useless within a century at max? Its part of the elevated logic of the setting.
>>92679889The Imperium is deliberately irrational and insane. They copy shit down on parchment scrolls as a main means of transmitting messages and documenting information. People spend their entire lives screwing in bolts on a Titan that won't walk for another century. It isn't meant to be rational or follow sound policies.
Guys I think you need to chill and understand the Warhammer is for everyone now, even lorelet retards you disagree with.
>>92672405As a first edition grognard I miss when the imperium was so stupid half the Imperial guard was aliens because the sheet for human worlds is so much easier than the record book for alien worlds. Because of this the Imperium officialy recognizes clearly inhuman xenos as “human beings” because the clerks will murder you and your entire family for trying to give them more paperwork. Fuck if the Emperor had a text to speech device: the most faithful Wh40k material was Chaos Descends.
>>92666103Protip: Never use Nazis or the CSA as real-world analogies on 4chan if you want people to agree with you that the subject is worth condemning. Instead use the USSR, PRC, or countries in Latin America/South America.
>>92713055That’s actually a good point The contrarianism here is astounding
>>92664519nice bait
>>92712267few things ever truly get retconned in 40k, different authors draw from the source material they like the most, and most attempts to make new "lore rules" for lore that applies across the IoM get ignored by most authorsalso, old lore keeps getting brought back because it is "retro" now
>>92706413Warhammer 40k
