Dog whistles and discord mods edition>>IF YOU ARE ASKING A QUESTION, PLEASE SPECIFY WHICH GAME YOU'RE PLAYING<<<previous thread: >>92652230/pfg/ (pathfinder 1e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/RSt0rF0T/p2g/ (pathfinder 2e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/1zySxwm3/sfg/ (starfinder) link repository: https://pastebin.com/5yp9s2U3/3eg/ (D&D 3.X) link repository: https://pastebin.com/VMRsxB2mThe T̶r̶o̶v̶e̶ Vault (seed, please!): bit<dot>ly/2Y1w4MdTQ: What's your favourite class/archetype?
>tqin pf1, the unchained rogue, no archetype. I made a halfling ucrogue/whirling ball of death by adding stiletto heels on top of dual wieldingin pf2, the most interesting base class is the monk, but for archetypes I want to see them bring back the gray maiden archetype from the beta test
>>92669475>TQ: What's your favourite class/archetype?PF1: InquisitorPF2: Thaumaturge
>>92669475>TQ2e: Currently playing my Earth/Wood Kineticist with Wrestler+Cavalier archetype.
>>92669475TQPF1e Inquisitor as I harass faggots and gays and other heretical people PF2e I dont fucking know this edition sucks shit. I guess sorcerer
>>92669475>TQ: What's your favourite class/archetype?Fighter.
Is the strength rogue good?
>>926702342e? Generally no. A specific build is Fighter level broken, though.
>>92670291Critical Specialization at first level is pretty nice, even if it's only against off-guard.
>>92670291>Generally noDang that sucks. What’s the build?
>>92670306You go Longspear as your weapon of choice (no other option) and pick up Mauler archetype (preferably with free archetype but possible even without it). There, you grab Slam Down + Crashing Slam. In Rogue itself, you pick up The Harder They Fall. Those key feats allow you to Crashing Slam to auto trip your enemy and double dip on your sneak attack dice.As an example at level 12, with 2 actions you deal 3d8+5+2d6 damage with your weapon +6d6 precision damage with sneak attack. With your last action, you use Preparation, so you can dish out 2 0 MAP Opportune Backstabs on top of all that. That's at least on Fighter level DPR, if not higher. And your opponent is auto prone as a small bonus.
I hear they killed off Gorum. My spite for Paizo's decisions makes me want to make a religious-class character dedicated to him. I'm thinking Inquisitor; don't think I've played one before.
>>92670377That sounds pretty neat then. Is it reliant on any sorta specific race or am I good going whatever and just taking that archetype? How much worse is the Ruffian at rogue stuff compared to the other subclasses?
>>92670406Race doesn't matter, but I would advice against tiny, since it would steal your reach. Ruffian is the second best Racket after Thief. As a Ruffian, you usually want to neglect Dex as much as possible, since you have Medium Armor Proficiency. But the average group would want you to be the Dex bitch for all the Dex skills.
>>92670444Oh cool. I haven’t much looked at the character creation rules yet honestly since I just picked up the core book thing so I need to look over how a decent stat spread looks, but would it be feasible to do something like a Ruffian Mauler who was/is a bandit and good at intimidating people?
>>92669475The Cavalier archetype definitely seems interesting, just with how easy it seems to slot on to a lot of classes.>what do I do with my third action? I know, I'll move 90ft. Or move 45ft and smack a bitch. Doesn't work in 5ft hallways but people who play pre-made adventures aren't real anyway. I'm the Inventor/Marshal from last thread and was wondering if you guys could give me some advice on un-fucking my stats. As it stands:>Level 6>STR: 18>DEX: 12>CON: 16>INT: 16>WIS: 12>CHA: 14>optional rules: PWL, Free Archetype I have the option to move 8 points around as I see fit. And I can also pull points out of the character's 'luck' pool, although I sorta don't want to do that because this character uses the GM's homebrew explosives and if I crit fail that could heavily weight dangerous results on his d100 table (would be 10% for every two points of stats, it's 50/50 right now). I spend most of my time frontlining right now so I don't want to move out of CON or DEX. My thought at the moment was to pull one from STR, one from WIS, and one from my luck stat (weighting the luck table 40/60) to bump INT and CHA to 18. Or CHA to 16 and INT to 20. Logic being that if I can Overdrive reliably then I can use the Athletics bonus from Muscular Exoskeleton to be doing frontline maneuvers and offset my lower to-hit with melee. I feel like that's wrong but I'd like advice and my GM is too hands-off to give any. >inb4 dump luckMy luck is already bad IRL and the last thing I need is to send a rocket into a civilian's house because I natty 1'd
>>92670474Yeah that's got a lot of feat support.+4 strength, +1 dex and con, +2 cha. Then with your skill feats pile into intimidation and athletics while you grab class feats like you're next, mauler dedication, and so on.
2e>improve monk proficiency to fighter track>decrease fist/stance damage by 1 step across the board>now monk punches good and monastic weaponry isn't a downgradeThoughts?
>>92670474Sure you can do that, as long as you max out Str and don't neglect Con and Wis and have at least +1 in Dex to max out your AC bonus.
>>92670519Now every single monk is a weapon user.
>>92670517>>92670525Oh awesome thanks a bunch anons. I’m thinking maybe Orc or Kitsune since I like either the thought of being a big brutish rogue or more of a muscled trickster dirty fighter sorta rogue and either sorta feel like they fit that thought to me.
>>92670519Idk I don't feel like giving monk expert unarmored and strikes at 1 is sane.Maybe give monk a subclass split where you choose 'killing arts' for expert strikes or 'self defense' for expert unarmored.
>>92670491>inventor >unfucking stats yeah dog just, make a new character
>>92670519>improve monk proficiency to fighter trackno thats retarded. next question
>>92670671We have an Alchemist (and another Inventor who was smarter about their archetype) in the party so I'm not trying to be super optimized, just wondering what could be improved. I really do hope PC2 fixes some of the jank shit though.
Thrown weapons is a scam. Why its has to use my dex to throw my hammer at enemies, damnit.
>>92670758>>92670491You want to do too much at the same time, resulting in you being shitty at a whole lot of different things and being good in nothing.I would recommend completely retraining out of Marshal and dumping all your Cha in favor of maxing Int and instead picking up an archetype that uses Int, such as Witch, Alchemist, Psychic multiclass etc.
>>92670809Thrown weapons are the best ranged weapons in existence. You being too retarded to understand how they work does not make them a scam.
>>92670843Are there any martial archetypes that use INT? I don't have access to magic due to setting shenanigans.
>>92670894Too bad Commander is not yet released as a multiclass, since this would be a perfect fit for exactly what your are looking for.Whats your restrictions exactly? Is uncommon or rare allowed?
>>92669475>What's your favourite class/archetype?1e: Occultist/Talisman CrafterStarfinder: Mechanic/Lightsplayer2e: Dunno really, someone once posted some build which could lay traps and force enemies into them in melee, and that is probably only time I have felt interested about trying something in 2e
>>92670968>2e: Dunno really, someone once posted some build which could lay traps and force enemies into them in melee, and that is probably only time I have felt interested about trying something in 2eThat's the Grappler Monk Snarecrafter build. Pretty fun, but comes online very late in the game.
>>92670519>>improve monk proficiency to fighter trackYes that's based, don't listen to fightards
Wait a second, why would I take scale mail over hide armor if they have the exact same stats but the hide is half the price?
>>92670958I'm really assmad that Commander wasn't out a year ago, yeah. >restrictions Race-based, mostly. Races that can do magic exist but they've become very rare and they tend to get hunted as ingredients in folk medicine. We have a bard but she's the only caster in the group. My dude is the setting equivalent of a bog standard human, or maybe dwarf, so he doesn't have access naturally. There are exceptions for what you might think of as shamanistic/warlock style magic where you're getting abilities from an outside entity - I actually have a Ranger/Cavalier backup the GM ok'd doing exactly that - but my current dude is agnostic and there's nothing in his background that would lead into dealing with spirits or the like.
>>92670958>>926710772nd reply because I can't read. >Is uncommon or rare allowed?Rare/Uncommon tags aren't much of a consideration as long as I can fluff it right, I think, and it's not obviously broken. We're already heavily deviated from the normal setting. The aforementioned Ranger is Beast Blessed and he didn't seem to blink at that since I had an explanation in place for it and it was connected to his Cavalier archetype. He didn't even mind I was technically using the wrong racial feat track so I could get stuff like Dragon Spit.
>>92670958>>92670894just talk to your GM. if you and the GM arent fucking retarded, its really not hard at all to just make a commander archetype dedication multiclass. a practically brain dead monkey could do it
what exactly was the point of the reddit mod apology if nobody wanted an apology they knew wasnt meant and the mod just ended up going on his discord saying he didn't mean it
>>92671077Without magic there is not too much Int-related you can choose from. Only things that come to mind are Investigator, which makes you a more reliable hitter thanks to Devise a Stratagem, or Alchemist, which makes you more of a supporter thanks to all the alchemical items you can craft and give out to your party/eat yourself.If you just want to be a better martial, then you could also go with something that boosts whatever you are doing right now. For example, if you wanna have more AC, you pick up Sentinel dedication for heavy armor proficiency, which effectively gives you +1 AC over what you have right now and a bunch of other armor related features. If you are more shield focused, you go Bastion. If you are dual wielding, you grab Dual-Weapon Warrior. If you 2handing, you go Mauler. If you are 1handing with 1 free hand, you can pick Duelist.
>>92671219got pics of that? lmao it sounds hilarious. but it was probably just all performative by the mod.
>>92671267it's in the subreddit somewhere but basically the mod that started it all made an apology then within 10 minutes started saying how reddit is cancer on the discord
The best form of mitigation is killing what's trying to kill youtherefore Fighter is a better guardian than Guardian
>>92671772>fighter>the bestalways was. this was never in question dear
>>92671772Well, obviously. There will be archetype that lets fighter to steal the best parts of the class with zero negatives.
>>92671067Nowadays you probably wouldn't. Pre-remaster, druids wore medium armor and metal armor was anathema, therefor, hide armor was the de facto druid armor.There's still some corner cases where the armors are different. Burnished Plating, for example, can only be added to metallic armor, so if you were a medium armor wearer who wanted to use that item you'd want scale over hide for that reason. It looks like they're moving away from that in general though (the "Shadow" armor rune used to only work on nonmetallic armor, but the remastered version removed that limitation).Still, yeah, big-picture hide and scale are mostly interchangeable now.
>>92670843elaborate
>>92670532They already are. Hand wraps are weapons.
>>92672302If your class/build relies on checks, you want to max out said check to assure better chance of success. As an inventor, he has to make crafting checks, so wants to max out Int, but he also had Marshal archetype, which requires him to either make Intimidation or Diplomacy check (Deception option is always shit), so he would have to max out Cha. At the same time he wants to be a frontliner, so he would need to max out Str and Con, making him way too MAD and therefore, splitting his attribute increases among too many attributes, since he still needs at least 1 Dex increase to max out AC and as much Wis as possible to be not complete shit against Wis checks and not having the worst initiative.>>92672368Nope.
>>92672302It's probably not that complicated anon. My PC is MAD as fuck so a lot of his scores are slightly behind. Although the fact that Inventor and Marshal both rely on checks just to turn on basic features really boils my piss. When I built the character I thought a 'standard difficulty' check DC was something along the lines of 10-12, not 15. I do sort of wonder if his success rates will get better as his skills scale. He'll be Master in Intimidation next level which will bring his mod up to +9 at least, and his crafting will be +10. He might get more reliable.
>>92672488It gets better the higher level you become, but you still want to max out the check to crit as often as possible.
>>92672522A saving grace of the campaign being heavily homebrewed: crit successes on stuff like Overdrive are diminished to just being a nice bonus. I need the ability to be reliable so I can turn on my armor Innovation mods but the damage is firmly in 'nice to have' because I'm level 6 and swinging around a flaming 3d8+1d6 sword. An additional 2 damage from a crit Overdrive would be nice but I mostly just want it on to boost my Athletics checks while I'm in melee. If I have Dread Marshal stance active I'm handing out +5 damage (my ranged weapon is a 5d6 rocket launcher) to anyone I happen to be standing close by. A larger aura would be aces but I mostly just need it working so I can tag team with the Alchemist/Barbarian. The low WIS is a pain point, I will give you that. I tried looking for options to boost my initiative but it looks like that was something reserved for Commander too. Fuck. Maybe I will sit down tonight and try and cobble together a Commander archetype. An INT based initiative bonus is just too good to pass up and it would replace the utility of all the cool Marshal abilities anyway. Although I'm going to miss bullying less muscular nerds in social situations.
>>92672718>>92672488Since you mentioned you will be master in Intimidation next level, I recommend picking up Battle Cry at level 8. Since this free Demoralize happens at the start of a fight, you can argue to your GM that you can use your Intimidate Check for initiative instead of Perception, as per the following rule: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2540Just talk with your GM about it to be sure.
>>92672768My GM is pretty by-the-numbers when it comes to specific rules. I doubt he'd let me use Intimidation as a general purpose roll for Initiative but I really should be more proactive about fishing for alternate rolls when the party is starting a fight or something. I'll keep it in mind.
>>92670234Ruffian is passable in the general case, solid with longspear's reach even if you're not using the build in >>92670377. I'd rank thief higher overall, but compared to other rackets, you still get the full ability bonus to damage, reach + d8 weapon dice (doable with finesse but you need to jump through rarity hoops), and longspear with Gang Up is a great combo. I'll also break with the other guy and say Preparation for 2x Backstab is harder to make land than it sounds depending on party composition. Only one flanking buddy and you're gambling on them landing two separate hits to get your full DPR. It's still pretty gravy, but it's not as free as the first Backstab in a round is and needs some coordination.
>>92669475Pf1: Shaman or InquisitorPf 2: Thaumaturge or Animist is fun
What are the actual mechanics for stealing or destroying a commander's banner?The commander's class features do not go into detail for how to mechanically resolve such an attempt, whether the banner is on the commander's person or deployed via Plant Banner.How does the pole version of the banner work? The first paragraph says "held in one hand and attached to a simple pole," but the second paragraph mentions "worn attached to a pole alongside your backpack."What weapons are valid for accepting a banner? I can see a fair many commanders preferring to use a shortbow. Can a shortbow accept a banner?
>>92670391The pf 1e iconic for who was a warpiest of Gorum seems to be the iconic for the totally not pf1e warpriest but renamed subclass that is coming up for the cleric.
>>92674097pretty sure it's basically just an Esoterica equivalent where you need a hand free or to be holding it, literally exactly like an implement. if you have a bow you can say your banner's on your backpack and since bows are 1+ handed you always have a hand free to use it when not Striking.
>>92674116Battle Hardbringer that's will be the 2e renamed Warpriest
>>92652617>Back to Roots>3eSome of us have. PF2 didn't do it for me, 5e didn't do of for me, and I had gripes with PF1, so I'm now using a mix of 3.0 / 3.5 / PF1 / Homebrew, with Eclipse (a point buy book) to make it easier to mix and match on the character side. I just usually hang out in the 3e thread because they're less purists than I found pgg tended to be (and PF2 was not the improvement I had hoped for). Maybe some day I'll assemble a version of the thing I can PoD self-publish for my shelf / beer money.
>>92669475>PF1Wizard with a figment familiar,Synthesist summoner, then basic CRB Druid.>PF2I dunno. I couldn't find anything I really liked in the main book, and then I only got to play it for like 3 sessions, by which time I concluded I didn't really consider it an improvement.
>>92674097destroying would be mostly relevant for when it's attached to the shieldstealing apparently is 2 actions when not attended (while cmd retrieves it from planted in 1 actions so a lot has to go wrong), object damage is rare otherwise. Issue of planted/worn banner is more that you're locked out of Banner trait actions because they require you to hold it instead so it better be attached to a spear/staff/polearm (but then you lose on the shield)
>>92674272Personally I'm hoping that corefinder will be good. Pretty promising so far, but there is still many ways they could fuck it up
>>92669475TQ - 2e sorc. I just think they're neat. Extra spell slots and feats I actually want to take.Too many 2e casters have you look at what's available to you when you hit an even level and you're met either with a tax like summoner tends to get or just a load of shit you don't care about like Oracle.I really wonder what they're going to do in PC2 to try to unfuck the oracle, they're so bad. They were successful with witch so I'm kind of hopeful.
>>92669475TQ: 1e, probably my favorite character ever was a cleric. I know that's a basic bitch response for Full Casters: The Game but hey they had a lot of toys to play with. My favorite non-caster is probably barbarian, mostly because they were one of the few martials who got to full-round attack and move in the same round via access to Pounce at the later levels.2e, just because archetype was specified as an option, I am a huge fan of Mauler. It's powerful and useful for a bunch of different kinds of characters. It's got exactly enough feats to get you in and out of it with a character using one-handed weapons (Mauler > Slam Down > Crashing Slam), while also containing a bunch of goodies for characters with big two-handers who might want to stay in the archetype longer. A light-armored duelist-style character or a two-handed barbarian type might both find Mauler valuable. It's great.I like Martial Artist for similar reasons. Just super easy to archetype into with a whole suite of monk stance feats available, plus (again) exactly two feats if you don't want to use stances, which is enough to satisfy the requirements to take another dedication feat later on down the road. Plus the stanceless feats are both very powerful. I love versatile archetypes like that.
>>92674457Wait. Corefinder is still being worked on? How many years has that been on the backburner.
>>92674689Many. But at least LG is posting corefinder updates around weekly basis now, so I guess the actual release can't be that far off anymore.
>>92674097>What are the actual mechanics for stealing or destroying a commander's banner?By default, I'd assume stealing uses the same impoverished rules for stealing items from anyone else mid-combat.Destroying, similarly, probably isn't intended to be possible while it's a worn/attended item, but if the commander Plants it in the ground, it's GM fiat whether it can be hit by e.g. Produce Flame, same as other objects. You'd have to, of course, use the impoverished object statistics rules, where there's no actual guidelines for resolving an attack roll or saving throw, but once the GM decides something, adjudicating hardness and HP/BT based on the materials table is pretty easy.>How does the pole version of the banner work? Wording is inconsistent, but I think RAW you still emanate the aura while wearing it, but "banner"-trait actions require you to hold it. So Form Up works fine while worn, but Defensive Retreat does not.>What weapons are valid for accepting a banner? Without any explicit restrictions, it seems like the answer is all of them. The banner can apparently be more of a fluttering sash attached to something, judging by the art on page 5.
>>92668035Hey anon, if you're here. I rolled stats and got a 17, 16, 15, 11, 11, and 9. STR is the obvious choice for the 17, and DEX the obvious choice for the 16, but I'm not sure whether to put the 15 into CON or WIS, nor where to put my human +2. I'm tempted to put it in STR, because oh my god, 19 STR at level 1, but it could really fix some of those MAD issues with CON, WIS, even INT, since if I wanna do a trip build I'm gonna need Combat Expertise for Improved Trip.I'm almost certainly going Ranger for my multiclass, that Shapeshifting Hunter feat is a godsend. What ranger combat style do you recommend? Whip seems best for a trip/AOO build, even if i don't use a whip.
>>92669475>What's your favourite classIt's a tie between oracle and witch. Oracle was such a step up from cleric and the flavor of accidentally getting powers (plus a curse) instead of begging for spells is just perfect. Witch is closer to 3e's warlock than other other classes (hexes).>archetype?Occultist for arcanist. Speaker for the Past for shaman is a close second, but I really dislike that archetype's name.
I posted about a session I'd run with my players last night with this image that was directly related to the topic of the thread, as it was literally the creature the players were interacting with.A janny warned me and deleted the post because they thought it was an MLP reference. Are the jannies here retarded? Are we not allowed to talk about horse-related encounters in our games?
>>92675564>Are the jannies here retarded?Yes? Where have you been?
End It! seems like it could be cheesed with familiars, animal companions, and the like, since those count as allies.For that matter, I do not see why a commander should bother with the in-class animal companion feats instead of picking them up via archetype instead.
>>92675661I feel like that argument can be made for most classes that involve animal companions. They're just not balancing around free archetype and the ability to go beastmaster/cav. They're balancing mostly around organised play where if you want an archetype, you're giving up class feats for it.
>>92675712>organised playhow I hate that word
>>92675712I am not even talking about free archetype, in this case.
>>92675741Do archetypes give an advantage over the regular companion progression? I'm not really familiar enough to say. Something to point out for the playtest if so, though.
>>92675751The commander has bafflingly gimped animal companion progression, worse than ranger's. Other than maybe the initial feat which lets you put your banner on your animal companion instead of you, you're better off archetyping into cavalier or beastmaster.
>>92675751Yeah mature companion is often faster. And that's a big leap in action econ.
>>92675751>>92675815Sorry, that wasn't very specific. Yes, the general progression is that you get a mature companion feat at 4th that also lets your companion take 1 action for free without being commanded, and then a nimble/savage companion feat at 8th, and then a specialized companion feat at 14th.Ranger, for some reason, has these feats staggered 2 levels later. Druid and the AC archetypes give them at normal progression. Commander, for reasons that are even less clear, gets ranger's progression, except they moved the free action to the nimble/savage feat at 10th, so you get a massive feature 6 levels later by taking in-class feats. Commander also has Drilled Reflexes competing for that feat slot at 10th level.
>>92675815>>92675817Oh yeah. The feats do seem to give extra commander-specific bonuses but the one from battle-tested warhorse is useless. Battle-hardened destrier seems like good action compression, though and that needs the other one as a pre-req.
>>92675844Yes, by 10th level you're technically net-positive if you took all the in-class feats, relative to taking them from archetypes. However, if I were going for an animal companion on a commander, I would be in a much better place by going into Beastmaster and being able to take Incredible Beastmaster Companion at 8th and Drilled Reflexes at 10th, even ignoring whatever my build was like from levels 1-9. I'd argue this is the case even if you're not going mounted and have to/want to take the Steed feat at level 1.
>>92675887I think it makes sense in the context of the commander. You're probably using a mount more for mobility and geting your banner in the right place than you are getting it in the face of the enemy. The stats matter a little less unless the GM is going to hard focus an animal companion instead of a player character in which case, they can fill their fucking boots.Also, I don't think I've seen it mentioned here but the newest AP has a new animal companion with the mount trait. It's a giant squirrel with a climb speed and it's common.
>>92675954>It's a giant squirrel with a climb speed and it's common.Fuck, I'm wrong. It can climb as part of its advanced maneuver but it doesn't have a flat climb speed
>don't end your turn in melee with an enemy in 2eWhy is this stupid advice so widespread?
>>92676046It's often good advice. Not always but in a single enemy encounter, making them move to hit you will almost always lose them a chance to hit you three times.Making the one foe lose 1/3 of their turn for 1/3 of 1/4 or better of one party member's turn is a fucking deal.
>>92676086You waste your action and fuck up flanks. Which part of this is supposed to be good?
>>92676099You are not flanking if you are fucking dead, mostly
>>92676116>You are not flanking if you are fucking deaddunno, the undead don't seem to have any problems with it.
>>92676116You're dead if you're spending 2 out of 3 actions doing a stupid little shimmy back and forth towards your enemy instead of flanking.
>>92676099It's not wasting your action if it makes an enemy use their way more valuable action to chase you. You might not be fucking up flanks depending on how initiative falls.
>>92676145It is.
>>92676046It's newbie advice one step above "don't just Strike three times." The follow-up to that is often "well then what the hell do I do then?" and, if the person hasn't put together a build with a useful reaction, or MAP-friendly two-action abilities, or non-Attack third actions like Raise a Shield, then the bog standard thing everyone can do is just Step to get themselves out of Strike range against most enemies. And, since they don't have anything better to do anyway, it doesn't cost them anything to Step back up next round to hit the opponent again.If you are putting together a build thoughtfully then Stepping away with no follow-up is almost never the correct play. Either you've got Reactive Strike and want to stay in your opponent's face, or you've got some way to spend all three actions attacking without having a "floater" third action to Step with (e.g. a two-action attack and a one-action attack), or you've got a useful third action you'd rather do than Step (like the aforementioned Raise a Shield). But if you're brand new to the game and looking for something to do other than Strike a third time, Stepping at least makes things awkward for the enemy.I would hope that this advice never gets applied after someone's very first character. Obviously you'd much rather build your character so that you have a functional way to use your actions each round in combat, but 2e builds are kind of sneakily awkward in that way. No other D&D-type game I've played has had that sort of implied build-goal of "make sure your build has something to do with your third action." It's definitely not very intuitive at first.
>>92676167Even attacking three times is better than doing that stupid shit.
>>92676099against any big APL+3/4 encounter the dedicated buff bitches are going to be spamming Slow every turn. Now the boss has 2 actions which is still enough to skullfuck you with draconic frenzy or a breath weapon or whatever. If you move and force the enemy to waste an action Stepping or Striding now it's down to 1 action. If you further combine this with S-tier abilities like Kineticist's ice aura that makes Uneven Ground forcing an enemy to spend an additional action Balancing now their turn is completely gone. Rinse and repeat until the GM has an aneurysm and is forced to admit 2e isn't actually a very good or balanced game.
>>92674951CON is important as a melee frontliner, so you should probably put your 17, 16, 15 in STR, DEX, CON. While you rolled really well, it's unfortunate that all the power got concentrated into just three stats since this particular build is pretty MAD (multiple attribute dependent). >since if I wanna do a trip build I'm gonna need Combat Expertise for Improved Trip.You can keep your INT at 11 if you take the Dirty Fighting feat. It counts as Combat Expertise and 13 INT for prerequisites.Regarding Combat Styles, keep in mind that you get the bonus feats based on your Ranger level, not your total level. So Whip would give you Greater Trip first at Ranger lv 10, which is total lv 14. Way too late. Instead I'd go with Mighty Strike for more generally useful feats. 1 Combat Reflexes, Dirty Fighting (H)3 Improved Trip5 Shapeshifting Hunter6 Power Attack (B) (Ranger Bonus Feat)7 Greater Trip9 Thrill of the Hunt10 Cleaving Finish (B) (Ranger Bonus Feat)>https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dirty%20Fighting>https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Thrill%20of%20the%20Hunt(Thrill of the Hunt is best used by keeping a pet that you release and catch, getting the hour/level morale bonus)Remember that your Favored Enemy (Undead) bonus applies to trip attempts as well.
>>92676233Except at 1 attack per person per round you're going to run out of Slow long before the boss runs out of hit points, while you will be eating shit from his 1 MAPless attack + whatever other bullshit abilities he has all the same. And it's especially bad if the rest of your teammates aren't retarded reddit troglodytes like yourself and understand the tactical issues with this kind of approach, because it means they'll be taking all the hits that could have been split with you and going down much faster, and the boss isn't going to go down fast enough because one of their party members is too busy doing a performative dance instead of enabling flanking and doing damage.
>>92675954I would consider having to wait 6 levels later than normal to get a free Stride out of your mount/AC as negatively impacting your mobility and positioning in a pretty major way.
>>92676322I think an action for two 40ft strides is enough.
>>92669475How fun are thaumaturges in 2e? Can they serve as decent combat support (perhaps with dedications)? How fucked would I be if I tried to play one with a gun weapon implement? Wand implement is a trap, right?
>>92676371Wand implement is less of a trap than a gun. It's a perfectly good ranged option.Guns are shit. Gunslingers sort of make them work with action compression that they alone get and they're still not a great class. Reloading is awful.
>>92676086>you will almost always lose them a chance to hit you three timesThe difference between getting hit once each at -0, -5, and -10 and getting hit just at -0 and -5 is not that big, though.Yes, some enemies have super-special 3a abilities; yes, this gets better if you knocked them prone (or have reach); yes, ally casters may stack other forms of action denial on top - but the "Step to force them to Step" advice is something that's implied to be a little more universal/broad than something that's a niche tool in a larger toolkit.IMO, telling newbies to flank as much as possible is more valuable.>>92676233Many big APL encounters are against Large+ creatures with >10ft reach, IME, where this is LESS useful than the default.
>>92676371Fword is subjective. Think of them as rogues. They ain't true front line.Ranged weapons are fine but guns are a little bad because you'd only make one attack a round then reload, so you only apply your weakness once.Unless you want to compromise on theme and use a gay air repeater.The good thaumaturge ranged weapons are agile in any case. A thrown hatchet is pretty peak.
>>92676341You're misunderstanding the utility, here. There's a big difference between a turn where you Stride into position for free, Strike at -0, and get the barbarian to Strike at -0 with his full rage damage, and a turn where you command your mount to Stride 2x (or, god forbid, try to make a Strike with your shared MAP), and then only have 2 actions left to Strike at -0 once and maybe use a 1-action tactic, or Strike 2x at -0 and -5, or use Strike Hard! and nothing else. The free action from (non-commander) mature companions is important because you keep all 3 of your own actions.
>>92676387>It's a perfectly good ranged option.Even with the 2 action cost? Are crossbows as fucked as guns in 2e?>>92676400Are thrown weapons split between using str and dex in their to-hit and dmg bonuses like in 1e? I've somewhat disregarded them so far.
>>92676412Yeah, but ability scores to damage don't really matter except at low level.Every martial in 2e gets a mid level feature called weapon specialization that gives you a chunk of flat damage on the die anyway.And once striking runes come into play that low single digit ability score damage just gets subsumed.On top of that thaumaturge just adds a lot of flat damage anyway because their gimmick is just that.Dw about it.
>>92676276Fair enough on the attributes. I think I'll probably put the human +2 into Strength; if my base WIS is only 11, then getting it to 13 will get me fuckall. Nothing really from shifter's WIS-to-AC, because wearing even non-metal armor halves that bonus and rounds a +1 down to 0, and, though 11 WIS restricts me to only level-1 ranger spells, I wouldn't be getting anything above that until level 11 or 12 anyway.Thanks for pointing me to Dirty Fighting, seems to be exactly what I'm looking for, and yeah, Mighty Strikes looks good. Thrill of the Hunt feels a bit too situational, and "keep a pet then periodically release and catch it to keep the bonus indefinitely" feels a bit too gamey; I'll probably replace it with something I like more by the time level 9 rolls around. Maybe Planar Shift, or a prerequisite for something I want to try at levels 11+.Thanks for all your help!
Is it just me, or is 2e's Alchemist's flamethrower rather underwhelming?
>>92676498>Is it just me, or is 2e's Alchemist rather underwhelming?It's not just you.
>>92676498That's the whole class, not just the flamethrower
>>92676505>>92676508If I wanted to burn stuff with a flamethrower, would I be better off just running an inventor with a weapon invention and frequently using explode?
>>92676525I'd try persuade the gm to tweak it a little since the concept is good; fire damage in a line if you feed it an alchemists fire.The only flaw is the execution.
>>92675564>MLPI got a 3 day ban once for posting MLP in a slop thread. I was trying to troubleshoot the setup and used one of the sample prompt from the the model (they were all MLP examples for the model) for calibration, it was entirely ontopic discussion, and I didn't mention MLP outside if that example prompt for calibration. I never actually did get it working right. AnywaysBut I've gotten "warnings" or 3 day bans for all kinds of "off topic" that was entirely ontopic over the years. The only possible conclusion I've been able to draw is that the jannies here have been literally retarded for many years. I feel like Moot's jannies were less retarded, but that might just be nostalgia
>>92676437Should I bother with the talisman or scroll esoterica class feats? I'm not sure if talismans are worthwhile and I'm unsure how effective I could be using scrolls without a spell attack proficiency. Can Thaumaturges snag non-implement wands or staves? I like the idea of a pseudo-caster class that leverages magical items, but playing a full on caster sounds like a lot more work.
>>92676601Scroll esoterica is really good and the later feats connected to it are really good.
>>92676601A lot of people claim that the scroll stuff is really really good and I think that's a fair assessment if you know what you should be purchasing or preparing.Spell attack rolls aren't something to worry about since so few spells actually make an attack roll.The talismans are more narrow in their use but can be pretty strong at high levels when they start to reroll skill checks and things.
>>92669475>2e>like the idea of a frontline character inspiring his allies to greater valor >don't necessarily want to deal with spellcasting as a bardWat do?
>>92676629Wit swash.Anything with marshal dedication.The playtest commander that just went out like 2 days ago.
>>92676371>>92676387I thought Triggerbrand Salvo was pretty nice on a Thau, since you get two attacks at full MAP as a single action, and each attack benefits from both Implement Empowerment and vulnerability, including intensify vulnerability.Unfortunately you're not going to see it before level 12.
Are alchemical items functionally useless after the early game in 2e like they were in 1e? How about poisons?
Could an inventor have a companion innovation that doubles as a mobile piano platform for a bard?
>>92676784Low level consumables are insanely useful after the early levels in 2e to the point where they're practically free solutions to big threats.Dust of appearance and blood boosters have so much to answer for.
My bud says he wants to run Abomination Vaults for our first PF2e AP, is there anything I should know about it as a player
>>92676894Yeah. Don't play an offensive caster.The first few floors are full of creatures with jacked reflex or mental immunity, so unless you like force barrage a lot you'll do nothing.The rooms are small and narrow so don't rely on being at range for protection.
>>92676894Not really. People will tell you it's a meat grinder but that's only true if you're retarded.Or if you don't understand how sight works and this one is may more understanable and the fault of your GM. See, there are creatures on the first floor like maggots. They're big and they can't see. The book doesn't mention this. If you encounter them, fuck them up by the fact that they're off guard to you. If your GM protests, ask them "How can they see us? Do they have eyes?" Preferably after the GM has already described the eye situation/
>>92676914>>92676926Oh alright, I’m >>92670474 so would that dude work alright in this sorta campaign? Or would a Warpriest work better maybe?
>>92676993My group's ruffian died floor 6 due to a horrific recall knowledge check.I think the whole vibe could have made it to the end if the party didn't all fuck a really important roll.
>>92677012Oh yeah since apparently it’s like a literal dungeon crawl with floors how do you explain getting new characters to join the party? Do you just leave and come back?
>>92677021Yeah, a PC died over halfway through the overall run in my game, I incorporated the corpse into the ongoing game and then got the player to make a new character with new character rules for the level they were at.
>>92676993Rogues are good if you can cope with a lot of precision immunity until you make it past the early floors.You will probably be killed by failing an important fort save.Something important to think about when you play any pf2e campaign is that you're trying to make a balanced party that can play off eachother, and that should be the top concern.You'll do far better as diverse group of simple characters than you will as a grabbag of good characters with no synergy.
>>92677030Oh cool. So far after looking at the rules I’m liking the thought of the ruffian still or maybe a warpriest of like Gorum or Pharasma sounds kinda neat. Like the thought of a fighting cleric who is the one to send you to the afterlife himself/hunt down Undead personally, or like a combat instructor who’s training grounds was/is also a church. I dunno.
All cantrips should cost 1 action
>>92677277only attack roll ones
>>92677067>maybe a warpriest of like Gorumanon, I...
I'm looking at adapting one of the big three 3.5 APs to PF1e, does anyone have any opinions of or favorites between Shackled City, Age of Worms, or Savage Tide? I am not planning to run them as-is, but I'm curious as to which ones people have enjoyed overall.
Does the Marshal dedication in 2e pair particularly well with any base class?
>>92677924It pairs best with Thaum, since no one else has more Cha and he has the action to spare to get the aura going once he exploits weakness.
just a heads up but WotC and DnD shit the bed again so expect an influx of people in pf2e soon
>>92678254What did they do this time? Is it the new CEOs fault?
>>92678254lmaowhat happened this time
>>92678311>>92678313Nta but they removed the ability to buy things piecemeal from dnd beyond so you must buy full books now, and it’s very much more so possible that they might ban the homebrew section.
>>92678332EhI'm gonna be honest here if the OGL thing didn't end up putting a dent in D&D in the end, I doubt something like that is gonna.
>>92678332I don't expect people who are to dumb to create a 5e character without a tool to be very happy with PF2, even with Foundry, AoN and Pathbuilder.
>>92677924used to be okish on clerics when they had to care a lil about cha, nowadays its more about conscious decision to invest into the skill, unless you're planning on dread stance your charisma doesn't actually matter that much as long as you level the skillthaumaturge, fighter, champion, swash and maaaaaybe summoner would pair well considering the small aura size
What would be a good excuse of an occupation for a bandit who, for obvious reasons, wouldn’t admit to being a bandit when in town, but would explain how he brings back coin and jewelry and other things from his intimidating travelers to pay him? Tax collector sounds like an obvious, if perhaps too obvious, one.
>>92678631merchant
>>92678631charlatan
>>92678631>Tax collector sounds like an obvious, if perhaps too obvious, one.Not an expert, but I would anticipate some members of the governing body actually know who the tax collectors are. The taxman might even know quite a few guards, as I can imagine collecting taxes might be a hazardous profession. Perhaps it's not the best cover story since people with authority might notice you're impersonating state personnel and clearly up to no good.
2eSword cane, yes or no?
>>92678745Depends on the build.
>>92678763Thaumaturge or swash
>>92678631Gambler, prostitute, hunter/trapper, mercenary, somewhat well-off parents allowance.
>>92678745no
>>92678769If you wanna melee with Thaum, you max Str instead of Dex and therefore, get a better weapon without finesse. For Swash it's fine.
We're level 2 right now and our fighter has 7 trained skills with 0 intelligence, is he cheating? I'm a ranger with 8 trained skills and I took a feat to get another skill at level 2, I don't know if that makes sense.
>>92679822You can get 7 trained skills (not counting lores) with the racial lore feats. Archetypes also give extra skill training.
>>92679822>fighterno theyre OP they can just do everything. its fine.
>>92679822>athletics/acrobatics>3 from class>one probably from background (if it doubles up with above he can choose another)>archetype giving trained in a skills, same parenthesis as backgroundit would be better tho if he had picked one that would raise his skill proficiency to expert or acrobat tho. Take comfort in that trained skills don't matter past 7 really in paizo adventures because they're all oblivion-tier on scaling
>>92679822Fighter gets a base of 3+INT+either Acrobatics or Athletics, plus one and a lore from his background, for a total of 5+1. He might be the type of human that gets an extra skill, or he might have a racial feat or archetype feat that gives him one or two more?What I'm saying is, he's not outside the realm of possibility, but he might be.
>>92679862>>92679869We have no free archetypes and he didn't dip into one. He's a half orc. The DM was the one who brought it up last game because he was like, "wait, how many skills do you have?" When the half orc fighter started crafting. I don't know how to bring it up again without being a dick.
>>926799406-7 are doable but you can always double check and approach it without antagonising him as a cheater and just ask to check if you got the character building right as you're all learning.
is organized play woke?
>>92680159Close: organized play is a joke.
>>92680175What do you expect of people who have no friends to play with?
>>92679940>He's a half orcthere's a half-orc feat to get extra skill training
>>92680252actually since half-orcs have access to human feat too he could get 3+ bonus skills just from ancestry feats, potentially even 4+ since there's a human feat letting you take a general feat
>>92680272human can just pick skill training for ancestry feat instead of picking general training->skill training unless you enjoy feat-stairs on pathbuilder
>>92680159yes much like online play its infested with faggots and trannies
>>92677021There's a town less than an hour away from the dungeon. You're expected to be returning to it to rest, purchase and sell items, and deal with problems that arise in the town over time.
>>926787451d6 and agile on a finesse weapon is solid. Concealable is probably worthless outside of very specific campaigns.
>>92678745the best use of a sword cane is as an offhand weapon to a falcata for double slice
>>92671219>Reddit mod acts excessively racist>Ignored until no longer possible>Told to cut it out and apologize>Does so and then says he never meant itIt’s excruciating how long this shit can go on when it’s not directed at blacks people or women. It’s amazing.
>>92678854Swordcane is bad on swashbuckler because agile is generally useless, as swash usually only wants to make a single attack per round. Dex is viable on thaum with switch-hitter builds that make use of unarmed ranged attacks like the kitsune foxfireI am literally playing a foxfire/swordcane kitsune thaumaturge right now
>>92680544there doing damage control and saying the subreddit and discord were never meant to be connected
>>92680904just like starstone?
>>92680196Disorganized play. Don't let some group of complete strangers with alien cultures dictate the content of your games. It can take years to get a decent group, but I would rather that than be subject to some surreal code of conduct that lets complete assholes elbow into my games, tap an index card like some passive aggressive housewife, and disrupt everyone's fun.It might not be a complete waste if you can show up for one event and make friends willing to ditch PFS for future games.
>>92680547Nah. Attack then finisher works reasonably well since the confident finisher failure condition deals half your precise strike.
Is the idea of a Warpriest of Ragathiel with a bastard sword and a shield being someone who trains the town guard before leaving to go on adventure a good one
>>92669475What are some cool mechanics PF2 has that PF1 didn't, or didn't do so well?The way PF2 handles secret checks comes to mind, but what other improvements / "New" subsystems are in PF2?
>>92681369Imo a ragathiel priest would be cooler as a sword and free hand character. Level athletics and switch between two hand and one hand depending on the occasion. Ragathiel is one of the cooler deities.
>>92681602That makes sense I just figured since Warpriests get the shield block feat it’d be useful to have a shield. Is Warpriest good at like the classic buff himself and go into combat sorta armored cleric thing? I heard they don’t hit people as good as fighters and paladins but I still like the thought of an armored priestly dude who can heal and fight good though.
>>92681627 they can bring themselves up on the bad levels with heroism if you're being mean and not buffing other martials (technically they're not entitled to your shit) but their level 19 master strikes are kinda a poor cope, ragathiel does make for a pretty cool channel smite build tho since he has heal & harm font
>>92681661How’s all that work? I haven’t read up on much yet since I’m still new to PF2e so I’m still just flipflopping on character ideas and reading up on stuff still.
>>92681627They don't hit as often, which is why I like the athletics route, since that progression is the same for everyone. You will be as good at grabbing and tripping as any other character, only getting minus one against people with key STR for half the levels.
>>92681549Since only about 30% of all monsters have AoO, the fights turn out to be much more dynamic compared to go in melee => kill or be killed.Spells being relatively shit means that the fight is not automatically over after initiative roll at higher levels. Also, higher levels actually work. If you are not braindead and avoid the most obvious traps, you can build a solid character without having studied the game for years.
>>92681549Degrees of success.Rolling 10 over the DC is a critical success.Rolling 10 under the DC is a critical failure.So criticals are much more frequent.
>>92681666ok soRagathiel gives you bastard sword as favored weapon which is good as it's versatile in hands and damage diechannel smite burns one heal or harm spell depending on whom you're hitting to get extra damage if you hit, it used to be specifically from your font but not anymore but i digressnow you can sanctify but it's not that important reallyVersatile font lets you prepare either heal or harm if your god has both, but it's mostly so you're not caught fighting something thats immune singular choiceso general plan is that you buff yourself up with heroism and on next turn if you're by the enemy you use Channel Smite from your font resulting in your weapon damage + rank x d8 damage, not accounting for extra runes or feats, channel smite unlike spellstrike from magus doesn't require recharging. Now october will bring cleric another class archetype to cleric that will be more strike oriented apparently so it might be best to wait out, especially since ragathiel might bite the bullet as a minor diety because he's rather "radical" (also we got soft confirmation that the new class archetype will remove the font for it)
>>92681776Oh they’re adding a new cleric subclass thing?
>>92681740Except just the possibility of a monster having AoO means nobody's going to move around them carelessly unless they already know about that specific monster.
>>92681809yesn'tclass archetypes also take up your dedication spot at level 2 but otherwise you can treat them as new subclass
>>92681817You'd just have someone recall knowledge and ask if the monster has any reactions when you first encounter one.
>>92681865Or maybe you wouldn't, or they'd ask something else.
>>92681879It's how the games intended to be played.You're supposed to strategize and cooperate.You can either Delay until your knowledge guy is able to find out, or manually investigate and potentially get whomped.
>>92681926I don't care how it's intended to be played. What matters is how it actually plays. Nobody waits for recall knowledge unless they want to die.
>>92681879>>92681817I'm not talking whiteroom. I'm talking how actual gameplay looks like. 95% of all AoO are on fighter/warrior/brute type monsters. So you know it at first glance most of the time. And in the few occasions it doesn't map, you eat 1 AoO in the whole fight which makes next to 0 difference. Other than that, you are infinitely more dynamic in fights compared to pf1.
>>92681964>95% of all AoO are on fighter/warrior/brute type monsters. So you know it at first glance most of the time.This is about as reliable as the logic used in determining something's strongest saves. Astrology tier shit.
>>92680904>they're doing damage control and saying the subreddit and discord were never meant to be connectedWhat does that even mean? That the opinions plainly stated in private do not reflect the actions of the Subreddit, even though they do? What's funny is that Asians *should* be one of the last few peoples you're allowed to be racist or bigoted towards, because like whites they've been labeled a "free use" punching bag by the people that Paizo clearly admires. They're ostracizing *everyone* with this disaster. If you can't play a Ching Chong Chinaman, what's left for liberals to take liberty with?
Kinda weird how the second wotc/hasbro does a fucky wucky the resident troll comes back off hiatus.
>>92681740> 3.PF Build AutismYeah, this is why when I run 3.x I now go for Eclipse for character building. No prerequisite autism, it's pretty clear what's good and what's not, the crappy options (pretty consistently) cost fewer points, and no need for multiclassing autism either. 3.PF options can still be used or imported (either Built from Eclipse options and modifiers, or imported wholesale with the GM assigning a point cost), and then magic items and monsters and spells, you can use as-is (or change, if the GM wants) (it also has other magic systems if you don't want to use D&D magic. Personally I mostly like D&D Magic, aside from a few problem spells, and wanting slower recharge rather than 100% recharge daily).>>92681755Hmm. 3.PF often had degrees of failure, but rarely had degrees of success. That's a good one, I can see that.>>92681740> Not all enemies are capable of AoO.In PF1 couldn't you usually avoid an AoO with a 5ft step? IMO It was the All-Or-Nothing nature of full attacks that discouraged moving away more than AoOs. Losing all your attacks but one at higher levels is a big deal.
>>92669475Imaging you have 10 exactly the same slimes in a row. If you punched them all with the same strength, speed and in the same spot every time would they splatter the same way every time?
>>92681549The three action system alone would have been enough to sell me on the game. The dichotomy between "move and attack" and "full-round attack" was brutal in 1e. 99% of a martial's turns, from 1-20, were going to be one or the other, and your builds were mostly about just getting yourself in a situation where you could full-round attack most often and most effectively. I remember they had to nerf Quick Runner's shirt because it granted you a single move action without needing to sacrifice your full-round attack, once per day. Sounds innocuous, right? But because of the incredible importance of full-round attacking, it was basically immediately recognized as one of the most powerful items in the game. People carried wardrobes around full of it, stuffing bags of holding to the brim and changing shirts every encounter to ensure they could have a fresh one on for each fight. That's how hard martials were incentivized to full-round attack under that system. And obviously, if you're full-round attacking, you're not doing anything else. There's no decision-making in a full-round attack and it's what you wanted to do every turn.I eventually got to the point where I just stopped playing classes that didn't have at least some caster levels (I played 1e for 10+ years) because they at least got to decide if they wanted to cast a spell each turn. Most martials' entire careers, in terms of what they would actually be doing round-to-round, were basically mapped out for them from the get-go, and almost every martial build had the same optimal strategy each turn: full-attack if you can, move and attack if you can't so you can full-attack next round. This was never really "fixed", although near the end of 1e's support Paizo started coming out with the hybrid classes, which essentially put a band-aid on the situation by just making everybody casters.
Cont. >>92682607Martials in 2e are like a gasp of fresh air after that. Different classes actually play differently. Different builds within classes play differently. You can choose individual moves to use, more granular than just "attack" or "attack the whole round". You can assemble attack rotations, and the rotations might actually be different depending on what's going on in an encounter. It's incredible. I've never had this much fun playing a martial. You actually get to make decisions.Earlier in the thread people were discussing the "step away with your third action" advice and giving alternatives that would be better (spoiler: most other things you can do are better). The fact that that discussion is even possible is amazing. A third action? And I can do what I want with it? And different builds might do different things with it? And different situations might call for it to be used differently? It's like Charlie getting the golden ticket.
>>92678631>would explain how he brings back coin and jewelry and other things from his intimidating travelers to pay him?There isn't one, thieves use fences for a reason.
Anons for 1e.Say I want to build a werewolf-like Shifter, going with the Weretouched archetype and choosing Wolf Aspect (duh).Through Lycanthropic Wild Shape giving a hybrid form "and all of the natural attacks and abilities listed by her major form", along with Shifter Claws and the Wolf Aspect's alternate natural attack (1d8 Bite), just how many nat.attack combos can you make by default without feats? For example, 1 bite 1 claw, 2 claws, etc.
>>92682804And how do thieves explain what they do for a living beyond saying theivery
>>92682869They're in the waste management business.
>>92682607>>92682613I get where you're coming from because that was my initial impression, but after playing for a while it really falls apart. Builds are made to do one thing, or a two-thing rotation, for the most part, and you just kind of do that/those thing/s. It becomes especially fucking bad when you pick up something like Knockdown or whatever they renamed it to. "I sudden charge and then intimidate, then I wait 20 minutes to go around the initiative horn and then I use knockdown and maybe strike again or something."It rapidly becomes less about tactical decision making and more about what you put on your character sheet. All the decision making is done there and once you're at the table it's just following the instructions you wrote for yourself.Huge breadths of character build options are the death of tactics. The three-action system would have been absolutely amazing in a game with much simpler characters and less math autism, where characters are very broadly capable. But when you really shouldn't "waste an action" attempting to do something because you didn't hyperfocus on it you start running out of options super quickly.
>>92682934Depends on how you build the encounters, sure. I played a session yesterday where we were all like 100 feet from the enemy, and the goal is to save a little girl captured by the enemy. I'm a dual wielding ranger, but i hunt prey, call my animal to get over there and support, and then fire at it with a bow and dazzled it turn one.The fighter who doesn't have a long range weapon, uses like three turns to get close to it because 20 ft movement and difficult terrain.The Wizard wanted to get close to use his cantrips, but he started launching leveled spells when the kid got in bigger trouble.
>>92682607>Full attack is basically mandatory and also horribly boring.That's a fair criticism. I think the issue was definitely solvable without the three-action setup, but that's fair. Outside of full-attack, PF1 was basically a 2-action setup (+swift action). And they introduced the 3-action setup in Unchained if you really do like it.I played PF1 for ~10 years, and 3.0/3.5 for another 7, but bounced hard off of 5e and PF1 when I tried them. Both games attempted to be 'better' but it felt like they also ended up throwing out most of what I liked in the prior editions to make slow and tedious hitpoint attrition systems, and threw out most of the fun noncombat stuff, as well, when realistically, I only want like 1/4 of a session to be combat.Those shirts are a lot like the obsessive chase to get pounce.>>92682613> Individual moves.That makes a lot of sense. Individual moves are why people like ToB or Path of War, too. I think Individual moves are the way to go for martials, and I agree that the rigidity of Full Attack makes for bland martial gameplay.I thought it was obvious, but full disclosure, I'm not looking for reasons to switch to PF2, because I tried it and found it a downgrade overall. I'm looking for a list of what I should look at in PF2 for houserule inspiration to make my 3.PF games better, without discarding everything for 3.PF that I actually like.
what's the most fun you can have with skirmish strikeI'm kind of imagining using a boarding pike and playing keepaway with a precision ranger or something. maybe work with an animal companion with reach if such a thing even existsif I remember right animal companions are deliberately fucking shitty though
>>92682934It also heavily depends on what class you are playing and how you build it. Fighter might be the most broken one math-wise, but is also the most boring one.As a counter example, my current lvl 9 Earth/Wood Kineticist with Cavalier and Wrestler Archetype has the following options each turn:3 actions:- Wooden Palisade to split up the enemy group into 2, so we can focus down 1 foe while the other foes smash the wood wall. It can also be used to block escape routes for enemies or climb walls etc- Jagged Berms to shut down large+ enemies and make it harder for melee enemies to just walk up to the group2 actions:- Tumbling Lumber to push enemies back in built Jagged Berms corridors for double dipping the hazardous terrain damage- Timber Sentinel to mitigate heavy amounts of damage and synergize with building Jagged Berms corridors- 2 action Elemental Blast against Ghosts with vitality damage, since this build is otherwise useless against incorporeal1 action:- Elemental Blast as a filler, either in melee with reach or as thrown thanks to Weapon Infusion.- Grapple to control enemies in melee, so they don't just ignore me- Whirling Throw to throw grappled enemies back into the Jagged Berms Corridor to double dip on hazardous terrain damage- Channel Element to activate Drifting Pollen, so all enemies in my aura get fucked by Sickened and Dazzled- Fresh Produce to heal a bit either in or out of combat0 actions:- If I need movement, my mount moves me 40ft.- If not and my mount is already in melee, then it can attack
>looking at a player's guide for an AP the DM wants to run>Geralde Brightfist (LN female dwarf ruffian) Head of theBlacknoon Thieves’ Guild, Highhelm’s largest gang>head of thieves' guild>lawful
>>92683326Adherence to a personal code of conduct makes you lawful, though that code might be in contravention of local laws and ordnances.I did sort of miss autistic alignment arguments so thanks for the necromancy.
>>92683326The neutral is more baffling than the lawful. Strict code of conduct mafia are a classic example of lawful evil.
>>92683346nu-alignment is fucking retarded manI'm glad they're just axing it because paizo don't know how to make it sensible or interesting
Speaking of Full Attacks, what are the best melee builds in 1e?
>>92683326Lawful doesn’t mean literally following the law, though it can, it means following a strict code of conduct, whether it be your own, an organization’s, or a nation’s.
>>92682934>But when you really shouldn't "waste an action" attempting to do something because you didn't hyperfocus on it you start running out of options super quickly.Yeah, Pathfinder is super inflexible if you want to have a character just be reasonably good at stuff outside of Their Thing. Obviously stuff should have tradeoffs but PF2e likes to tax you just to do relatively simple stuff like >trip someone with an attack>glare angrily >be scary while raging >have access to gadgets at all while you're THE gadget class>having an animal companion that is useful at any point at allAnd if you ever want to get a little bit out of your lane you have to check you can even get the stats to do it reliably or risk making your character too MAD because of how tight the tolerances are on modifiers. Without Free Archetype it seems like every character gets pigeonholed super hard.
>>92683423The ones you have most fun with :)
>>92683521I only have fun when winning with 0 effort.
>>92682827You get 1 Bite from your Wolf Aspect and two claws from Shifter Claws. When you full-attack you get to make attacks with all of your natural attacks no matter what your BAB is. So you'd get three attacks. One with each natural attack. Bite/Claw/Claw.
what's really getting me about this PG is that it's full of all this contradictory shit that all smacks of "we don't want to make these non-human creatures TOO little like humans or to paint a society that's different from a modern city">dwarven city with a caste system, caste is based on how dwarfy your profession is>but there's no discrimination about caste and it's an equal opportunity metropolis I swear>also- heavy labor is not very dwarven, and is in a low caste>"entire blocks go without light," even though darkvision is literally not just perfect sight in the dark and the book says as much>but also this underground city is full of skylights and fully lit all day>history history history history history dwarves are very proud of their ancestry and history and their history>but these are very forward thinking dwarves that warmly welcome elves and furries and shit to live in their precious ancient homeland-city>but also there is plenty of room for the PCs to challenge Tired Prejudices (like a caste system that means fucking nothing apparently)>dwarves are dour and reclusive but these dwarves are at home and are warm and receptiveI'm getting some bad feelings about thisI'm also starting to suspect it'll be like agents of edgewatch where you're expected to do all this shit for charity and return all the loot to the dwarvesthere's like no fucking information about the clan that hires you that's actually relevant to what they're hiring you for or what kind of people they're looking for. just ungameable shit like their opinion on historyI appreciate the idea of these players guides, I really do, but god fucking paizo just can't stop pissing me off
>>https://paizo.com/threads/rzs4bahv?Revised-MagusPF2 will continue to not be anywhere near as good as it could be with this being the majority of the "fan" base
>>92683423The ones with Pounce.
>>92683423Generally speaking, those that are less reliant on full-attacks, can attack out of turn, and/or have the ability to move and full-attack. Like a Hurtful polearm wielder with Greater Trip and a Fortuitous weapon. Or a Flying Blade Swashbuckler with the Dodging Dance deed of renown, Stylish Riposte weapon trick, and Blue Scarf swordmaster's flair. (Pounce is nice but easily countered)There isn't one simple answer like "dual pick fighter" like in 2e.
>>92683749So just Barbarian?
>>92683617I don't know enough about magus to understand why I should be mad at this thread. Explain.
>>92677515Thankfully in the year Abomination Vaults takes place is, Paizo's fanfiction can be ignored.
>>92683887>god dies 2 years laterUh oh>inb4 his GM doesn't track time
>>92683516Another point in favour of Eclipse-ing 3.PF.
>>92684128I don't take your meaning. You mean like Eclipse Phase? Because I haven't played that one.
>>92683795Bard and Magus get the Bladed Dash spell.Cleric and Druid and Cleric get beast shape 2.Quadruped Synthesist summoner can get pounce at L1. Just play a giant alien tiger form.Skirmisher Ranger gets "stag's leap" for free action running long jump without the in several times a day.Other classes can get pounce or something similar.
>>92684146No no. The good point-buy character building 3.x book. It works with Pathfinder as well. He has tons of examples builds (including most of the PF1 baseclasses) on his blog. Maybes it easy to customise classes or build your own, or what have you. Use it plus core plus monster books, and it's pretty solid. Doesn't resolve he full attack issue on its own, but I you make one fix and assign it a reasonable point coat it becomes easy to a lot it into every martial who needs it. It has a martial arts system where you get access to martial feats and other buffs depending on which martial art you're using at the time (only one at a time, but you can switch) - they run on skill points.The main book is shareware on DTRPG. You can check it out and see if you want a hard copy or his other books in PDF. I heard it mentioned in 3.5g and I quite like it. Wish I had found it when it was new.
>>92684398>Holy fucking typos and autocorrect, Batman!Sorry guys. Pissy toddler is a distraction. I think its still hopefully comprehensible.
>>92681602>>92681703After doing some more reading the whole free hand being required for a million actions is actually really neat and I noticed that you need a free hand for medicine and the idea of a knightly looking dude with a big-ish sword and a doctor’s bag strapped to his armor sounds really cool. Is doing something like a War Priest plus battle medicine and buffing himself/friends with spells and healing good then?>>92681776I won’t be doing this character until our current DnD campaign finishes so that’ll probably be around the time that releases, which is perfect timing I think? I’m not sure but he said we’re halfway through it. So does the smite thing require taking the versatile font feat do actually be able to choose between the healing and hurting? How exactly do archetypes work? The battle medic and sentinel ones seem kinda interesting, either going for maximum support or being able to wear heavy armor and get the seemingly useful(?) armor specialization thing too?
>>92684398why not just play spheres, which is also a la carte charop and does fix full attacking
Bros player has decided to go for Blue Dragon Instinct Barb for lightning damagePrimary boss is a rogue elemental storm terrorizing the coast and immune to electricityis there any way RAW to let the player choose a different damage type part from just not using their instinct when they rage?
>>92684870Consider the following: He will have resistance as well.
>>92684652well technically as long as you have harm or heal prepared you can spend either but your font is automatically scaling to the highest level so having versatile font just helpsarchetypes you take using your class feat slot for dedication+it's feats instead of your normal class feat, there is a variant rule where you get extra slot so you can do both your class feat and separate archetype feat but i recommend playing without it for at least first few adventures to not get a warped perspective on the balance
>>92684788I dunno. I tried building one spheres of power character and hated the magic system. Never looked at spheres of might. I should give it another look and see if it has anything I like.
>>92684870The action for draconic rage crucially says 'you can', so choosing to simply deal more physical damage is an option each time you rage.And this seems like the correct interpretation since the feature then immediately discusses what happens when you make the decision; you add traits to rage.https://2e.aonprd.com/Instincts.aspx?ID=2
>>92684969>>92684870Ah wait I've just read it again and I see what you mean.I'd run with it. You need to push down on some players sometimes and be a little unfair or the game feels like too much of a cakewalk.
2eAnyone used this for naval combat? I've read the rules and it seems like it could be trimmed down significantly, but if anyone here has run it as is I'd like to know how it functions
>>92684967Note, I did say tried building. I didn't try it at the table, but ultimately, I like an AD&D based / inspired magic system, creatures, and magic items, and when that's not the kind of fantasy game I want, I tend to want to skip the rest of the D&Dness as well, and go for something lower powered and I have Rolemaster and GURPS for that.
>>92684788>spheres is also a la carte.Just checked. It is not. Spheres is still fixed class and level progressions with fixed class features and specific prebuilt archetypes. You're not building or customising your own 'Elementalist' progression. It's not "okay you leveled up. Take an 8pt hit die and spend another 24 points how you like. If you want to build an element a list here are some class features you might consider useful, but it's up to you."Which a DM can easily decide you get more points, or these features (*bab*) are going to be repriced to not cost so much, freeing you up to buy other things, etc.
>>92685468A Talent is worth a feat though (Extra Magic Talent), so (I just checked), where a feat costs 6pts, you could easily add the spheres and talents you like at 6pts each on to the Eclipse modular point buy system, without using the Spheres classesor you could price out the other features Spheres classes get to make them customisable as well.
>>92683539That makes sense anon. Thank you very much.
I played a session as a guardian just now. First impression is that the class is good at absorbing damage, but is ultimately very one note. Positioning very challenging for the reaction, and I'm pretty sure taunt doesn't give penalties to athletics check for things like grapple or trip the way it's worded, which came up in the session. I also feel like too often instead of making my allies a bad target, taunt just made me a good one. I definitely think it should be bumped up to 12hp and/or given some sort of sustain mechanic if it's going to trade away so much offensive potential for it's defenses. Worth noting that instead of the sensible, obvious one handed weapon + shield build, I decided to go reach trip with a guisarme.
>>92686142what level did you play at and feats did you try out?
>>92686142Yes, on top of Taunt costing an action, allowing a saving throw, and creating a +2 circumstance bonus to attack rolls and DCs against the guardian (its penalty is also circumstance, which means that it does not stack with the penalty from prone), it does not actually penalize the target's Athletics-based actions, such as Trip and Grapple.A tyrannosaurus has higher Athletics than attack bonuses, and likely wants to use Grab followed by Swallow Whole. These are both Athletics checks against Reflex DC, so a guardian has no way to save their friends from being gobbled up this way.
Am I reading it right, if I grapple then attack someone, assuming the grapple is successful, then the attack is made at only -2 since the grapple would leave them off-guard? That’s worth doing, right?
>>92686250Only level 3. I took Larger than Life and Hampering Sweeps. Hampering Sweeps didn't do anything because there was no point where it was really beneficial to completely lock down an enemies movement, the fights were either too mobile on our part, or the enemies didn't have much of a reason to go far away anyways.
>>92686488>>92686142I also want to add that I did very little damage, but contributed a lot through action denial, with a lot of tripping enemies then wasting their movement. That + my high AC and solid health, and damage absoprtion made me feel like I contributed a lot to the fight overall as a taknk, although reach trip is hardly a guardian exclusive thing. I'd like to see more support for action denial through athletics maneuvers in the guardians kit in the final release. We were playing with free archetype, and I took blessed one for the extra sustain, but I didn't use lay on hands in combat because our healer was able to keep me from needing it.
>>92686475Assuming that your opponent wasn't off-guard before and you're wielding an Agile weapon, effectively yes, you'd be rolling your next attack at -4 (from the multi-attack penalty) but they'd have a relative -2 to AC from the Grabbed condition, so the math works out to an effective -2 for your second attack. As to whether or not it's worth doing, it kind of depends. As to whether or not that's worth doing, it kind of depends on what else you've got going on. Your first attack action is the one most likely to succeed, and in many cases your #1 goal is to fucking merc the guy, so using that for a non-damaging action can seem like a waste. If you have things you can do to grabbed opponents (such as Dazing Blow, or Thrash, or the myriad of abilities that penalize the Off-Guard condition) it becomes a better deal. Then there's opponents like casters that you might want to inflict the flat-check spell failure debuff on by grabbing them, or maybe there's someone you Really Don't Want To Get Away.In general, though, if you want grabbing to be a standard part of your combat turns, you're going to want to find a way to do it without an attack roll. This normally means using a feat like Combat Grab to add grapple on as a rider effect to your normal attacks, so you're getting a chance to grapple every turn without suffering unnecessary multi-attack penalties on your Strikes. So yeah, no easy answer there as to when it's "good" to Grapple as your first action, but it does work the way you think it does, yes.
>>92686550Yes, the key question to ask here is: would the character have been better-off as a champion running the exact same reach Trip setup?
>>92686552Oh alright, thank you, anon. I’m just trying to figure out rules and ideas still and the anon earlier said doing athletics stuff in combat as a War Priest was a decent idea and it seems like one to me, I think. I also like the thought of going for Medicine stuff alongside Healing so no one can ever be really downed too much I think, and the 15 starting GP gives a suit of Chainmail, a Bastard Sword, and a Healer’s Kit exactly, which seems decent to me.
>>92686584Funny you mention it, because the character I made was actually originally supposed to be a backup character for my AV campaign, a reach trip redeemer champion of Pharasma. I adapted it into a guardian for the playtest, which is the entire reason I went with a guisarme instead of a sword and shield. I've only played one session so far, but at the moment, I'm not convinced I've come out on top by adapting him into a guardian.
>>92686585Oh yeah if you've got other stuff going on, Grappling a guy when you're in his face isn't a terrible way to spend an action, especially if you've got buddies around to beat on him. If you're using combat maneuvers as a sort of extra part of your build, then you're going to find all kinds of opportunities to use them. I just wanted to give that little warning there that, if you were making a grappling character--the kind of character who wants to grapple every round--you generally want to find a way to work that into your rotation without hurting your ability to Strike.I'm interested in how Battle Medic + War Priest works out. War Priest has solid healing to begin with, and Battle Medic is a famously powerful archetype. Part of me feels like it's overkill in the healing department, but I guess that'll depend on how much your group likes to get themselves murdered. If you've got a free hand anyway for spellcasting and intend to be in melee, medicine and maneuvers are definitely the go-to things to build for.
>>92686670I read that it used to be you needed high Charisma on a War Priest but the remaster fixed that so to ignore a bunch of older guides, yeah? So as a War Priest I should go for Strength for my sword and athletics stuff, Wisdom for spells, Con for obvious reasons, and then a smidge of Dex to max out AC since Chainmail gives a +1 Dex bonus alotment yeah?And yeah, Battle Medic seems really interesting, and the Field Medic background seems perfect for it, too. Armored Cleric using Magic and Medicine to keep people alive and a big sword to keep people alive by ending his enemies is a really fun thought to me. My biggest question is how exactly does taking an archetype work? If I go Battle Medic I have to spend Feats on it, right? Do I lose out on my Cleric feats or what have you? Would that mean I wouldn’t be able to get Channel Smite and Versatile Font in order to prepare some Harms and Heals in order to Smite as best I can or no?
>>92686731>If I go Battle Medic I have to spend Feats on it, right? Do I lose out on my Cleric feats or what have you?Battle Medic is a General Feat. Those are separate from class feats and you can pick them up without compromising on your class as long as they don't pull your stats in too many directions (Medicine is a WIS skill).
>>92686731I'll flag this by saying I'm not super familiar with War Priest so I can't offer build-specific advice, but in general that stat spread seems about right. It's also worth continuing to boost Dex as you level up (unless you have some other pressing need) because that contributes to your Reflex save.Regarding archetypes, you've got it right. Archetype feats go in the same slot class feats do. They're basically just a special kind of class feat that everyone has access to. So, if you want to take the "Medic" archetype for instance, you'd be doing that instead of taking a Cleric feat for that level. Additionally, if you want to take more than one archetype, you've gotta grab at least two feats from the previous one first. So if you wanted to take the Medic archetype then take another archetype later, you'd need to take two of the feats from the Medic archetype first before you're "allowed" to take another archetype dedication feat.I'm kind of assuming you're talking about the Medic archetype; the other Anon already mentioned that Battle Medic is its own thing.
>>92686816>>92686832Oh whoops, yeah I meant the Medic archetype and the Field Medic background gives the Battle Medicine feat by itself. So then going the Medic archetype would lock me out of Versatile Font since that’s a level 2 Cleric Feat, and then if I took any of the level 4 Medic Feats I’d be locked out of Channel Smite, but if I took the Healing Font I’d not really want it anyways without Versatile Font and Channel Smite seems like a really nice Feat to have because of the oodles of damage you can end up doing with it, yeah?
>>92686963It's agonizing to pick, for sure. You can always go back and grab lower-level feats later on if you've got a level where nothing catches your eye, but yeah, the big limiting factor of archetypes is that they halt your progression in terms of your normal class feats. Some classes have more tempting feat lists than others. Investigator, for instance, has some pretty lackluster class feats, so everybody just archetypes out of it. But Cleric might have bangers every level in which case it might not be worth archetyping at all. If you've got plenty of good stuff in your class list already, maybe you just ditch Medic and use regular old Medicine for out of combat healing while relying on your spellcasting for combat healing.
>>92686731if you're not expecting to cast spells that target enemies you could even dunk wisdom (but no reason to because perception and will saves are tied to wis) since channel smite gives auto-results on saves if it hits so there is no downside do getting it to +3/4 (depending if you can stomach being bit squishier but medium armor usually covers you). Earliest you could think to archetype with that build is about 6 since divine weapon is kinda mid and you can get some of the medic feats with skill feats (if they have "skill" in traits)>>92687022that would require prepping extras in spellslots as i've been selling him the idea of channel smiting with font slots, context is warpriest of ragathiel
>>92687022>>92687054Yeah, with how good Versatile Font and Channel Smite seem like they are, I think while Medic would probably be worth it in other cases, but going with just the Battle Medicine from the Field Medic background and just hoping to get lucky from the Wisdom bonus and being Trained should be good enough to hold out for people, even if the Medic dedication feat seems really nice though since I don’t think using the non font spell slots to prep extra harm/heal spells might be too worth it when Bless and the other buffing spells just seem really nice to both help myself hit with the Bastard Sword as well as my friends hit with their weapons.
2eNow it's obvious that kobold fangwires are supposed to be used as a garrote, but I see nothing saying they can't be used for normal attacking. My question is how I'm supposed to imagine the battle going on? It's easy to imagine crits as getting a quick loop around a throat or something for a quick squeeze, but otherwise would I just be whipping this wire at my enemies like it's fucking Cyberpunk 2077?
>>92687400Cheese grater with one large hole?All I can really come up with.
>>92687022>>92687054Oh my GM said he’s thinking about letting us use the Free Archetype rules since one of my other friends brought it up, would it be worth going for Medic then or maybe Sentinel for Heavy armor and armor specialization stuff?
>>92669475>2eKobold or poppet Wit Swashbuckler/Marshal?
2e, do swashbucklers get panache for sucesses in things the target is immune to?Like, rolling an intimidation check to demoralize something mindless. I give them panache for the success without ticking up the enemy's frightened condition because it's about their own swagger in my view but I don't know if that's strictly correct. I'm not going to stop doing it, I'm just asking so I can inform other people properly.
Lmao our party almost TPKd today from an animated armor and animated weapons. The DM pulled so many punches and we made it out alive. Our fighter was freaking out, shit was funny.
>>92687733I think it's fair to allow you to roll and if you would succeed but for immunity, you'd gain panache.And that's reflected in the rules for immunity on page 408 of player core.https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2313>If you have immunity to effects with a certain trait (such as death effects, poison, or disease), you are unaffected by effects with that trait.Doesn't say you can't attempt the action or activity.And personally, I find the idea of telling a skeleton you'll pull it to bits to feed to dogs, and the skeleton being utterly unfazed pretty funny.
Are Orcs the only race that gets 12 HP? That seems pretty good I think.
2e, who makes the best Illusionists? I want to abuse this shit and I've always wanted to cast phantasmal killer, ever since I got killed by it like a decade ago, but I'll be a front liner too so I don't really want Wizard. I'm thinking maybe Bard or Magus? They're tanky enough and a few of the illusion spells make them harder to kill too
>>92687803Dispel the notion of specialisation, you can't be an illusionist in 2e. All casters homogenise into just picking a balanced spell list with ways to tackle varied encounters.But if you want to just cast phantasmal killer, play a sorcerer. You can boost the damage with the dangerous sorcery feat, that's the best you're gonna get. Make it signature (It's actually worth making signature, there are not a lot of sources of damage that also debuff that also target will saves, it's genuinely a really good spell) and you're all good.Also be aware that phantasmal killer got hit by the remaster hammer and it's now "Visions of death". It no longer has the instakill potential on a crit fail but it does more damage than before on a crit failed save.
>>92687803Phantasmal killers gone, replaced by Vision of death.https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1742If you want to front line then consider a cleric warpriest of either pharasma or norgorber.
Overwatch or Marshal in 2e for a frontline support?
>>92687867Wrestler is always the answer.
>>92687872I don't think I'd do a good job buffing my allies if I put them in a headlock or suplex them
>>92687907It's not about buffing your allies, it's about leaving your enemy tripped by the trip maneuver and the grappled by combat grab so they have to spend 2 actions, the first of which they can just fail in order to have a turn.
>>92687843Ah, well I wanted to primarily cast illusion spells. I'll probably end up getting a little bit of everything eventually but I wanted to lean on the illusion bit as much as I can>>92687849Well, I guess flavorwise it's the same thing even if it loses the instant death which is what made it cool. I didn't even consider clerics, I guess I just assumed they didn't cast illusions
If I'm being honest this was probably the easiest one out of everything I've done so far because a good 90% of it was a direct copy/paste from an existing creature already in Pathfinder, but it was such a perfect fit I really couldn't justify ignoring it. (I also couldn't justify giving her any class levels because the existing abilities present with the creature already cover everything I could ever need)
>katana in 2e isn't agile nor finesseNext coolest weapon for a wit swashbuckler
>>92688369Just use a rapier like the rest of us
>>92688427No, I'm not gay
>>92688369Spiked chain
>>92688440wasted potential to play swash then
I think the real killer on guardian's Taunt is the bonus to save DCs. The bonus to attack rolls isn't great either, but a shield-toting guardian (past level 5) can be net +5 AC relative to a normal martial without a shield, and drop its AC to a mere net +3 by using Taunt for free alongside Raising a Shield with Shielded Taunt. I think the class is still overall worse than champion, but this isn't a terrible place for Taunt to be in.However, if you're caught in, say, a dragon's breath attack, you are now making a save against an AoE that gets a +2 against you, and the guardian's saves aren't really boosted - if anything they're slightly worse than fighter's until the last two levels of the game.On top of this, the dragon is likely able to catch an ally in its breath, and is ignoring the penalty from Taunt because it's targeting you as well. I've seen people say that Taunt is useful against dragons' AoEs in particular, because you can move away from the party to "fork" the dragon, but adult and ancient dragons typically have >100ft fly speeds and 50-60ft diameters on their breaths (and are likely to suffer a mere -1 on Taunt if run as a boss, which they typically are).
>>92688495>I've seen people say that Taunt is useful against dragons' AoEs in particular, because you can move away from the party to "fork" the dragonthose people are retarded, nogames, or retarded nogames imagining a scenario like tanking a dragon in world of warcraft where you taunt it and turn it away from the party so the party can hit its sides and avoid the frontal breath and rear tail swipes. that's not how dragons work in PF2E as you obviously pointed out, they have the range and mobility to be wherever the fuck they want.almost every single spell worth casting has a range of 30 feet, too. even with reach spell doubling that to 60 at the cost of their entire turn, the wizard and bard and cleric are still in breath weapon range. it's literally impossible for them to avoid it.
>Familiar of Flowing Script Your familiar is covered in a pattern that looks similar to letters in an unknown language, one that seems to draw attention even as it eludes understanding. When you Cast or Sustain a hex, the letters begin to rapidly change, causing a distraction. Until the start of your next turn, your familiar can provide flanking for you and your allies as though it were able to attack and had a reach of 5 feet; this is a visual effect.wow, exactly the kind of power i expect from a subclass based on knowledge and writing. bravo paizo, what a flavourful game
Do devils and demons and such die normally in material plane in Pathfinder? I think in DnD they just return their own planes or something like that?
>>92689482Yes, the poofing away unless they're killed on their home plane only applies to Demon Lords in Pathfinder. Those guys you still gotta chase to the Abyss if you want to put them down. Regular demons that physically travel to the material realm (even via teleportation) can get merc'd just like anybody else.
>>92689482>>92689495Well, there's also some creatures like Denizens of Leng that just return to their own plane, and of course summons, but yeah, in general Outsiders just die if they are killed.
>>92689495>>92689513Seems there should be then bunch of demon hating wizards doing daily spam of planar bindings and then just snuffing the called creature, I would think?
>>92689557They should but Paizo are retarded and copy pasted shit from 3.5 wholesale even if it no longer makes sense with their changed cosmology.
>>92687649armor can be solved with a general feat, generally people would likely recommend fighter for opportunist at 4, in case of extreme acs but middling fort (rare but happens) you can pick wrestler for your athletics stuff
>In addition to its political leader, every powerful clan must also hhave a great shaman to lead its community in matters of the spirits. Such figures take on the roles of healer, spiritual medium, diviner, and sorcerer, overseeing rituals such as births, marriages, and funerals. The most powerful shaman in history is said to have been a transgender woman named Tadhana Anitera, who inked AngIloka Luag’s magical tattoos and foretold the coming of the meteorite Ang Iloka Luag used to forge his unstoppable blade.>Since then, the people of Minata have considered transgender children an auspicious sign for their communities, where they grow up with no shortage of support and offers of apprenticeshipI hate the small hats for pushing this shit into our hobby. I fucking hate them
>>92690111Reminder that the suppression of non-binary personal expression and erasure of trans identities is something European colonizers forced on native populations.
>>92690641I dont know what any of that means I so Im just going to call you a faggot.
>>92690641Counter reminder that every civilization that's employed the use of "extra genders" were almost exclusively doing so with the intent of having an "other" category that gay men (ostracized), eunuchs (treated as a "lesser class"), and shamans/monks who basically swore off relationships to dedicate themselves to spiritual matters, and none of them were the "UWU I feel like I just don't fit into either gender!!!" nonsense that's peddled today.
How are axes in 2e, they seem kind of ass with how overly situational sweep and their crit spec appear, and how bare their weapon category is in variety (the only two-hand trait axe is advanced? Really?) but maybe I just underestimate them. I kinda wanna gun for a Dwarven Waraxe via unconventional weaponry, because I think axes are just a great aesthetic, but god fucking damn is it hard to justify compared to just whipping up a bastard sword user instead and accepting my lot as Human McSwordguy.
>>92691339Honestly, for default PF2e equipment I would just refluff weapons all over the place since they're just stat blocks assigned a vaguely correct name. As long as the keywords on the stat block make sense for how it's being used it's whatever.
>>92691339The swipe feat to give yourself a +1 is the best use for axes imo. You could either go the giant barbarian route and take the feats that make you large/huge and abuse reach swipe and later reach whirlwind strike. Or you could just be a fighter, archetype into a caster and take enlarge in every slot.
Is an Orc that worships Ragathiel something that makes sense? I was gonna go Human but the Orc archer looking dude in the core rulebook looked really cool.
>>92691339But sword crit spec is also shit.
>>92691339Sweep and critspec comes up sometimes against mooks and the dwarven waraxe is a slightly better bastard sword.Go for it, you don't need justification beyond aesthetics.
I am running a Pathfinder 2e game centered around a half-elf cult that worships a wendigo. They are trying to summon it and are kidnapping people and forcing them to commit acts of cannibalism in service to their “deity”. What are some thematically appropriate monsters I can use along the way so that my players aren’t just fighting ghouls for months until they can reasonably take on a Denizen of Leng and eventually an actual Wendigo?
>>92692428Type the word "dream" into AON creature search.Use generic humanoid cultists since humanoids are pretty diverse.You can just use random aberrations like gibbering mouthers and oozes.There are man-eating fey that could do in a pinch like baobhan sith.
>>92692574Word, thanks, that should be enough to get me started
>>92692428corrupted fey or some shit
I would just like to give credit to the new Player Core version of Gang Up, which turns a reach rogue into an exquisitely capable off-guard-generator.https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=4943
Someone else and I agreed to playtest the commander and the guardian over the course of sixteen combats at 10th level, with me controlling a commander, a guardian, a fighter, and a rogue. We have completed three combats so far.Thus far, the commander has been faring quite well, though their action economy is a serious concern, heavily pushing a mature animal companion and/or a shortbow. The guardian, on the other hand, has been a more watered-down champion all this while.I have built the guardian as a whip Tripper. So far, they have been able to contribute by Tripping enemies, but, well, anyone can do that.https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LHyGb0d82qK0Y_43fAfzdbGoqmsQU8rG_gMsJQ9UyQU/edit
>>92692814For Guardian, surely Wrestler for grapple primarily and trip/shove on the side makes more sense. At level 10, you have Whirling Throw to give you even more control over your grappled enemies and does more damage than your shitty whip. Also, reach on your weapon is punished by Hampering Sweeps.
>>92692877In this playtest, I am limiting myself to the Player Core, the Advanced Player's Guide, and Guns & Gears. The Player Core is all-remaster content, the Advanced Player's Guide is soon to be remastered as the Player Core 2, and Guns & Gears is explicitly referenced in the commander class: though the only Guns & Gears option I have used is a common background.For two, I could make a Wrestler and dedicate the character's actions to Wrestler-related actions, but at that point, why am I even playing a guardian?Hampering Sweeps with a one-handed reach weapon and a shield boss or shield spikes is actually comprehensive lockdown, but I have deliberately elected against taking it. It simply does not have much of a niche in this build and in this three-quarters melee party. I thought it would be best to prioritize survivability, namely, through Blessed One Dedication and Blessed Sacrifice; the latter is solely there to generate a second Focus Point.
>>92692877Seems helpful for the athletics bump if nothing else so you can raise intimidation/medicine/crafting.I think with the way taunt works a tower shield is basically mandatory so you can grab reflexive shield and shielding taunt and not get blown to bits by reflex saves.To say nothing of how good whirling throw is.
>>92692960Not saying that Guarding resembles anything good, but from what you describe, you try to build a shitty Champion out of a Guardian and wonder why it is a shitty Champion.
>>92692988What alternative 10th-level guardian build do you propose that would not be better-off on a champion?
>>92693046So far I had 2 builds mind. One will not work for you since it is blocked by your arbitrary source limitation (Wrestler). The second would be multiclassing into kineticist to grab Winters Sleet, in your case together with Save Elements due to the number of melees. If you still wanna heal on the side with this build, you can still pick Ocean's Balm for that.
>>92693169>>92692960Oh nvm, Rage of Elements is blocked too. No wonder you can't build shit there.
>>92693169Picking up Winter Sleet via multiclass is feat intensive: it takes three feats to get there, including an 8th-level feat. While a 10th-level kineticist could take Aura Shaping to make it ally friendly, this is not an option for a multiclass kineticist until 20th level. Given that the party's fighter and rogue are both melee-oriented, they might be inconvenienced by the Winter Sleet as well.How are the hypothetical Wrestler Dedication and Kineticist Dedication builds actually better on a guardian than on a champion?
>>92693238>While a 10th-level kineticist could take Aura Shaping to make it ally friendly,Aura Shaping increases the Aura size. What you mean is the 4th level feat Save Elements, which you can get at lvl 8/10 with multiclass.>How are the hypothetical Wrestler Dedication and Kineticist Dedication builds actually better on a guardian than on a champion?Winter Sleet synergizes greatly with Taunt, which the Champion doesn't have. A Champion has no incentive to get targeted, so he just gets ignored and monsters just run around his aura.Wrestler is about equally good on both. However, the champion is still a capable martial doing basic damage with his weapon, whereas the guardian is completely useless with weapons.
>>92693296You are correct. I was mixing up the two feats. My apologies.This still means a four-feat investment to acquire Kineticist Dedication, Through the Gate, Advanced Element Control (Winter Sleet), and Advanced Element Control (Safe Elements). The latter two consume feats at 8th and 10th level, which rules out Group Taunt.Is a 10th-level guardian working their way up to Winter Sleet and Safe Elements really worth it if the end result is a single enemy being taunted?This would be much better on a guardian with free archetype. However, my stance has gradually shifted towards playtesting classes without free archetype. If a class needs free archetype to shine, then something is wrong.>A Champion has no incentive to get targeted, so he just gets ignored and monsters just run around his aura.This is why Attack of Opportunity/Reactive Strike is an important feat for a champion. It discourages enemies from Striding past a champion.
>>92691171We already have a class for pedos who want to worship god its called Monk (priest) and not the shaolin type either
>>92693472>This still means a four-feat investment to acquire Kineticist Dedication, Through the Gate, Advanced Element Control (Winter Sleet), and Advanced Element Control (Safe Elements). The latter two consume feats at 8th and 10th level, which rules out Group Taunt.True, but you also get an arguably better heal than a 2 focus Lay on Hands out of it, which is not nothing.>Is a 10th-level guardian working their way up to Winter Sleet and Safe Elements really worth it if the end result is a single enemy being taunted?Who cares about taunting mooks? Even in 2 enemy-encounters a single taunt is more than enough, since you will be in melee with 1 already and you don't want to taunt that one, which you should grapple or lock down with Hampering Sweeps.>This would be much better on a guardian with free archetype. However, my stance has gradually shifted towards playtesting classes without free archetype. If a class needs free archetype to shine, then something is wrong.Agreed.>This is why Attack of Opportunity/Reactive Strike is an important feat for a champion. It discourages enemies from Striding past a champion.Agreed. Alternative is being a grappler Champ.
>>92693561>True, but you also get an arguably better heal than a 2 focus Lay on Hands out of it, which is not nothing.Are you referring to Ocean's Balm? It does not seem better than Lay on Hands to me.>Who cares about taunting mooks? Even in 2 enemy-encounters a single taunt is more than enough, since you will be in melee with 1 already and you don't want to taunt that one, which you should grapple or lock down with Hampering Sweeps.Thus far, the value of locking down enemies has not been high at all, since the rogue and the fighter want to get into melee and stay in melee for Gang Up and Opportune Backstab.My guardian's main strategy has been to Shielding Taunt three enemies at a time, Stride/Step adjacent to allies (or a square that allies will soon cluster around), and use Trip to drain an enemy's action. If Assurance can guarantee a success, then I use that. By arranging the party this way, the guardian can shelter allies using Intercept Strike and Quick Intercept. It has been somewhat effective thus far, but I am confident that a champion would have been able to contribute more.
>>92693702>Are you referring to Ocean's Balm? It does not seem better than Lay on Hands to me.Which is why I wrote arguably. It heals a bit less than LoH but can affect every char once per 10 minutes, so in your mentioned grp up to 5 targets max., which overall is a greater heal volume.>It has been somewhat effective thus far, but I am confident that a champion would have been able to contribute more.For sure. Guardian in his current form is just bad. The thing he is supposed to excel at is mediocre at best, even in best case scenarios. The builds I mentioned would only be band-aids to the lackluster chassi and would primarily shine because they themself are not part of Guardian.Imo, since Guardian is primarily a support class (much more so than Champion), it should have a support budget for the class chassi instead of a martial. Look at Bard or Cleric, they are way overblown budget-wise compared to all other casters. So Guardian should also be way overblown to compensate for the offensive incompetence.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Weapons.aspx?ID=415This thing looks really cool but is it any good to make a build around?
>>92693848You could ham-fist a build around it (Orc Ruffian Rogue would be thematic), but it is nothing to write home about. Still playable.
>>92693793My concern about Ocean's Balm is that it heals for only 22.5 as opposed to 30 at this level. It does not grant a +2 status bonus to AC to an ally, and the healing cannot be concentrated to save a low-HP ally.>Look at Bard or Cleric, they are way overblown budget-wise compared to all other casters. So Guardian should also be way overblown to compensate for the offensive incompetence.There are many ways the guardian could be improved: 12 hit points per level, normal weapon proficiency and weapon specialization, a wider radius for Intercept Strike, having Intercept Strike work on any form of damage even by default, eliminating the +2 from Taunt, and so on and so forth.
>>92693979New thread
>>92693988God damn, already?
