Finally, finally watched Dune part two last night at the cinema. Really enjoyed it.Where is my hard plastic 28mm miniature wargame?I can almost imagine the LotR SBG system would work perfectly.
>>92725562with that scale of machineries, fliers and worms, you absolutely do not want a 28mm wargame, you 40kid
>>92725598I do because I want to paint little Space Men that fit with my other Space Men>40kidI've just realised I basically have a Fremen army as I have a load of Beyond the Gates of Antares Freeborn who look quite... inspired.They even ride small flying worm type units lel.
This game is 10/10, play it if you get a chance
>>92725562I too would love some Dune minis. Might have to look for STLs online unfortunately.
>>92725598>Thinking he's talking about a mass battle gameGay and retarded
Mordheim/Necromunda except you’re a royal house. Instead of magic you have “hired guns” from the Bene Gesserit with the Voice and Guild workers with some low level of prescience, like failed navigators or something. Cool rules for house building to make each campaign unique with different focuses each time, different scenarios like the Jihad or a space battle, special rules for knife duels; I feel like there’s a lot here. Since Dune has more to do with story I feel like the injuries/rewards/off table mechanics would make it fit the vibe perfectly.
>>92733748That would be fun. I could get into a gang sized game.
>>92725562CMON just came out with another board game that has like two dozen large scale detailed plastic miniatures, and happens to be Dune themed.
Watch the miniseries instead
>>92725562I love Dune and the movies were pretty good in their own way, but I find Dune really unappealing as a setting for a wargame.I really have a hard time making sense of the setting, from a military point of view.For example: if lasers, when used on a shield, makes the whole thing explode, why wouldn't they use lasers constantly?When it's all used as background for a story, it's fine. But in a wargame it becomes seriously jarring.That is, unless you heavily revise the lore, like the video game Dune did, then F yeah.
>>92744404The whoke military aspect of Dune exists purely to justify sword fights in far future.
>>92728548Uhh which game bro
>>92733748>Fighter takes wound roll after going out of action on the tabletop>Captured by Harkonnens>Sodomised by the baron Nah
>>92744404The laser weapon explodes as well
>>92744824Dune the board game
>>92744404Because the laser gun also explodes. It's classed as an atomic explosion. Intentionally using atomics on people is punishable up to the extermination of the perpetrators homeworld population.
>>92744404>For example: if lasers, when used on a shield, makes the whole thing explode, why wouldn't they use lasers constantly?Because it probably also blow up the shooter.How exactly the lasgun/shield interaction works seems to be a little inconsistent. In the first book it was implied that it causes some kind of feedback loop that makes both the gun and the shield generator explode, with the explosion's power randomly varying from just blowing up the shooter and the target to being equivalent to a nuke going off. However, in later books it seems to have settled on the interaction causing just the shield to explode and the explosion having a predictable strength. They actually weaponize the interaction in later books. In the first book we already see a booby trap using the effect take out a bunch of Harkonnen troops (and the surrounding mountainside), but one of the later books mentions the idea of making a space minefield by scattering satellites with a lasgun beam emitter and a shield generator all around the planet's proximity limit so any ship that tries to leave the planet or exit from FTL near it get hit by multiple explosions equivalent to small nukes.
>>92744873The explosion size has always been fairly predictable (nuke-like). The explosion occurs at a random distance along the beam. Could be at the shield or gun end.
>>92744814I'm 100% fine with that, but I would prefer an explanation that's a little bit more consistent.Like, if warfare was... say... ritualised and supervised by an arbiter sent by the emperor, or something.But the whole "shooting is impractical, therefore shooting is a very effective tactic because people don't expect it" is a bit... weird.I like when the dynamic of a game reflects a little bit the dynamic you expect in-fiction and, as is, Dune's warfare really seems all over the place.>>92744838>>92744848>The laser weapon explodes as wellAs if that couldn't be weaponised as well.Set up laser mines wherever armies are passing by.Annihilate the Emperor's capital ship with just setting up a rifle with a timer...As >>92744873 mentioned, they pull stuff like that in the books every so often and then act like no one could have thought about that before.It's The Last Jedi tier stuff.(Again, I absolutely fucking love Dune otherwise)
>>92747082Easy fixes:- The game is focused on small skirmishes between assassins, as most warfare in Dune is supposed to go- Complete rewrite of the warfare lore, ala Dune the video game. You get shooting troops and vehicles and stuff. Can be large scale.- Ritualistic warfare. It's not total war, but something which is done under the supervision of the emperor/the landsraad. Therefore, some weapons/combos are forbidden.You can even have sneakier factions who can sneak in forbidden weapons under some circumstances.
>>92744404I know, have a tiny flying drone shoot a laser at its own shield and nuke your enemy.
>>92725562>Dune mini wargame>when all war is either backstabbing near total wipeout or small scale Fremen talibs/partisans slaying Harkonnens
>>92747082This kind of already happens. The spacing guild (and others) do observe wars. One principle thing they're looking out for is the use of atomics (including shield laser devices). Illegal use of atomics gets your shit wrecked by the whole empire.
>>92748793Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind
>>92725562Maybe a small squad combat style wargame would be best for the Dune setting. Large scale conflict wouldn't really vibe with the setting I feel. You could but you'd need to massively expand the lore of warfare in the setting.
>>92725562>Dune board gameI managed to get my hands on a copy of that, was fun to play with my brothers. Catan is still our go to, though.
>>92751273>Large scale conflict wouldn't really vibe with the setting I feel.check old RTS games, youngster
>>92751957Is it similar?
I liked the movie but did they REALLY have to make the Harkonnens (and everyone in their planet apparently) into freakish albino creatures. Basically everything that wasn't pure villainy got erased. The Feyd I was hoping for was completely gone and they just don't work as villains anymore because of how absurd and cartoonish they got. What was the point of randomly saying shit like "Feyd killed his mother btw," were they really THAT worried people wouldn't catch on to them being villains?
>>92755365Not even the slightest bit. Catan is a game that relies entirely on luck and the ability to manipulate your friends into making bad decisions, which is why College students love it and usually grow out of it. Dune has way less luck but far more hidden information, the cards in hand and storm move are the only random factors, but because you cycle through many cards (and you can use bad ones to bluff just as well as good ones), the randomness is mitigated severely. It's primarily a game about positioning for one climactic turn before anyone else, but because everyone knows different things that other players don't know, it can lead to a lot of mindgames. You can also just play it straight, multiple factions can almost play with their hand revealed and be just as effective, but that's not really the point.
>>92750231Remote controlled drone.They even have plenty of these
>>92749953Yeah, but Paul Atreid did use atomics and got away with that and so did his enemies.Which gets us back to the first rule of warfare:"It's only a war crime if you lose".So, again, I have a hard time making sense of warfare in Dune.
>>92757667>Yeah, but Paul Atreid did use atomics and got away with that and so did his enemiesTechnically the prohibition is very specifically against using atomics against human targets. Paul used them to breach a hole in the Shield Wall for his army to attack through. Maybe breaking the spirit of the law but not the letter. Stone Burners mentioned in Messiah are a similar case of "well, it's TECHNICALLY not illegal", as they're basically atomic-powered torches that kill people around them with heat and radiation but they don't cause a nuclear explosion and technically aren't aimed at people (you point the burner to the ground, the people are just killed by standing too close to the white-hot fission-powered flare).
>>92755547Aren't the book Harkonnes also just comically evil? They're always shown as these brutal oppressive villains who capture slaves and torture people and their baron is a gleefully evil fat floating pedophile. In the later books its mentioned that Duncan grew up on Giedi Prime and had to hide from Harkonnen raiders looking for more slaves or just hunting people for fun. The closest thing to a nice thing we see any of them ever do is the baron ordering a feast to be held for the citizens who were watching Feyd's fight in the arena, but even that was not done out of the kindness of his heart but because he felt letting the people return home after getting fired up by watching the fight would be dangerous for social order so it was better to let them spend their energy celebrating at the arena.
>>92755547I'm taking a wait and see approach since a Part 3 is confirmed that will cover Dune: Messiah. Even before it was confirmed by studio, the director mentioned that's about as far as he believes he can capture Dune on the big screen, so he likely planned around that. Say, with the Harkonens seeming to be simpler in parts 1 and 2 to emphasize more of the war focus of those two movies while they get more nuance in 3 from the court politics focus. Especially if Paul starts drawing on their tactics for one reason or another with a brief, Machiavelli-inspired line or two about why those tactics can work from him justifying them to himself whole a ground-level PoV makes those same justifications wither (might be what Chani's role will be, since she was used in Part 2 to voice Paul's self-doubting internal monologues as a side effect of voice overdue thoughts being awkward in film?)
>>92750231Just remotely operated. Also if you’re nuking someone, you don’t care about the rules.
>>92757720>the prohibition is very specifically against using atomics against human targets. Paul used them to breach a hole in the Shield Wall for his army to attack throughOh yeaaaah right. I remember they actually mention that in the books, yeah.Well, alright, ok, let's turn the objection around, then:Dune buffs ITT, what would your dream Dune wargame look like?Which scale? Which kind of units? Which dynamic?For me it would be either:>Skirmish, 28mm. War of assassins.>Low level of randomness, but lots of hidden informations (with stuff like: you play cards instead of rolling, for example) as well as hidden units. This way the combat plays as a bit of a mind game ("plans within plans").>As for units, you get assassins, bodyguards, princes of Houses, Bene Gesserit of different ranks, Gholas, Mentas, Fremen and Sardokars... The whole shebangOr>6mm, heavily mechanised warfare>You get ornithopter, spice harvester and random giant worms>Basically the video game Dune, but on tabletop>Except: terrain and weather have a heavy influence on gameplay. Say... something like a sand storm means shooting distance is reduced, meaning some units which would be dominating the game usually, suddenly becomes very limited.
>>92747082Another factor that the movies ignore completely, is that on Arrakis, Shields ATTRACT worms. Wearing a shield in the open desert is like ringing a dinner bell. Which is why the Dune RTS is able to get away with projectile based weapons skirmishes. No one is wearing personal shields or shielding their vehicles. Same with Repulsors, the flying rigs the Harkonnens use. They also attract worms.
>>92753683Even the RTS games are operating on scales of, at most, 100ish soldiers. Thats maybe not skirmish, but its certainly not large scale conflict
>>92744404Humanity during the age of the padishah emperors regressed really hard and forgot how to fight war, war only existed as a ritualized war of assassins between houses. The guild charged ridiculous amounts of money for military transportation, which meant large scale conflict was out of the question.It's the main reason the fremen win vs everyone, they lived in an isolated way and fought among themselves, learning war in the process. And they use real weapons like guns and missile launchers which everyone just stares at dumbfounded.
>>92758207War of Assassins. Arrakis is an important world, but one of many. The prices of the Spacing Guilds means that heavily mechanized is a non-starter, but small forces and strike teams are in the right price range to have battles across different worlds.By tuning it based around the Space Guild transporting prices, you also have a justification for a points system and make a general Member House of the Landstraadt faction that can be used as both a generic baseline for balancing purposes but also a Your Dudes faction.
>>92758207Maybe not a wargame but...Imagine a 28mm setup of a sumptuous party/political address/war summit. Both players have "diplomatic" models like mentats and nobles moving about and doing shit. There are guard models also that move according to rules. Both players ALSO have assassin models that may not come within x" of diplomats or y" of guards. They move and try to get LOS on targets or get to strategic points. At any time, one player may make a move that turns the event into a fight. Assassins may now move freely and use weapons. Diplomats might be fucked, or have combat capabilities (Feyd Rautha, etc). Guards fire at nearest assassin at turn's end unless special rules say otherwise. Then add on a shit ton of scoring which includes hidden agendas and so on. Model death has relatively little influence on victory. Your whole force might die but if you nailed your objectives you win.
>>92757667He got away with it because he in short order afterwards threatened to completely destroy spice production and destroy civilisation as a result. And the guild could see the future and knew it was true and so backed him.Paul got away with it because he had the biggest fucking stick in the universe at that point and was an overwhelmingly dominant power. Without guild support no other house could even get nukes to Arrakis/Caladan so nobody could nuke Paul's shit even if they wanted to because the guild wouldn't transport them there and risk Paul destroying the source of spice.
>>92757778I mean, yeah, but I feel like making the Harkonnens spend 100% of their screentime being idiotically evil monsters who kill their own employees on the drop of a hat and go into screeching rages regularly was too much. That and the freakish albino thing.Feyd was also upped the ante to an absurd degree ("hey he killed his mother btw") for no reason.
>>92758207>15mm >slightly larger than Skirmish-sized battles. >large enough for whole units of men but small enough for heroes to stick out.>can take a bunch of shit, not just swords or daggers.>but better, re, logical, stuff is more expensive points-wise>smaller vehicles are cheap but anything dedicated to war would be a real game changer. >one side acts while the other side reacts.>lots of special little rules you could use to bluff or thwart your enemy.>each house would have different rules and even some different equipment but everyone is roughly the same.Might have to have some deck of cards like others have mentioned to balance the fighting, in a sense. Small skirmishes, while cool, can be brutal if you lose just one model. Big armies don't quite work because you don't get to see such events in the books. That means armies are more limited by the setting rather than the rules of the game. I'd say you'd have about 20 to 30 models per side at most.
>>92744848>Intentionally using atomics on people is punishable up to the extermination of the perpetrators homeworld population.Wouldn't this make it really easy to false flag as your enemy and get them genocided?
>>92761158It is also a setting with truth sayers, ubiquitous spying, and very advanced interrogation methods. There's a real chance your ruse will be unraveled.
>>92758369They touch on it in both movies, the harkonnen operators in the opening of 2 yell not to turn on shields as they're getting sniped
>>92725562Dune: War for Arrakis not your jam?
>>92761158Two of the big players (the Bene Gesserit and the Spacing Guild) are very likely to know about your plan while it's still a daydream and if you try to go through with it then they can fuck your shit up. Even if they don't wreck your plan they'll have definitive proof of your actions (and will easily be able to spin "we only found out when it was too late to stop them") and will own you via blackmail in perpetuity. Your children's children will carry the debt for that crime.
>>92761158If only there were some real world analogue you could research to gain a better understanding of the situation.
>>92761158Ever seen a movie called The Sum of All Fears, based on the Tom Clancy book? Short version is that there's a scene in it where Baltimore is blown up by a small nuclear weapon. In the aftermath a team of radiation assessors is able to analyze the radiation and the debris that the uranium in the bomb originated from America - in fact due to the unique signature of the decay that even can specify which nuclear plant, which reactor, and make a quip that with another half hour they'll be able to tell you which PART of that reactor the uranium came from.That's not science fiction; we can actually do that in real life back in 2002 when the movie came out (and could also do it back in 1991 when the book came out). It's pretty much impossible to false-flag a nuclear attack because post-event analysis can reveal where the uranium or plutonium or whatever used in the explosion came from. The only way you could get away a false-flag nuclear attack would require the nuclear material to come from a completely unknown nuclear reactor, and those things aren't exactly stealthy or cheap to build. On top of that, the various nations of the Earth obviously have a vested interest in knowing the distinct isotropic signatures of each of their nuclear reactors and so are actually pretty open about sharing them, even back during the Cold War, since the threat of a false flag operation and the damage it could cause and crisis it could ignite far outweighs any benefit of keeping that signature secret.The same thing probably exists in Dune amongst the Great Houses. Every Harkonnen atomic has a distinct isotropic signature that is known by every other Great House, and Harkonnen knows the signatures of every other Great House, precisely to prevent the catastrophe that a false flag attack could unleash.......oh, also, >>92761188 and >>92770134.
>>92757778>comically evilThat's realistic evil, anon. They're stereotypical 20th century elites ruling an industrial faux-democracy through finance and blackmail after a meritocratic rise to power based on low-cost labor. Herbert deliberately made every faction something that could have been interpreted as inspired by a then-modern real-world faction, to emphasize good and evil is present in every setting.
>>92755628I might check it out. I need a new board game for my group.
>>92758960U-unf.
>>92725598calm down
>>92776617In a good way?
>>92755628>Dune has way less luck but far more hidden information>let's start the game by blind bidding on 5 cards!
>>92778616Yes.
>>92783844>uses the blind auction as an example of the game being only luck>only the auction and the storm movement are random, and factions in the game let you know that informationit's ok to just say you don't like the game anon
>>92725562>Where is my hard plastic 28mm miniature wargame?doesn't exist but the guys who made that long two player LOTR game made a Dune variant that looks kino
>>92733748ash wastes already exist just control-F the 40k for dunespeak
>>92783844>blind bidding on 5 cards>one player faction explicitly isn't blind>one player faction runs the auctioncome on now anon, clearly the game is about players with different power potentials all vying for the same resources
>>92744844I'll have to check it out
