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For discussion of D&D 3.0 and 3.5e

> Tools
https://dndtools.net/
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> Indices
> 3.5
https://archive.burne99.com/archive/4/
http://web.archive.org/web/20080617022745/http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php
> 3.0
http://web.archive.org/web/20060330114049/http://www.crystalkeep.com:80/d20/rules3.0.php
> Dragon Magazine Index
https://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/
> Web Articles Orbital Flower Index PDF
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> Errata
https://web.archive.org/web/20201111205827/http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata

Previous thread: >>92657179
Thread Question: What's the last prestige class you took?
>>
>>92727646
Is there a reason you remove the resource index whenever you make the OP? Its full of links to things people look for, and people have commented on finding it useful in past threads.
>>
>>92727959
>Homebrew GM / PDF >Making OP.

>>92727646
>Player Build OP.
>>
Friend is planning an Age of Worms campaign in eberron. I'm thinking of starting out as a Warforged Paladin of the Becoming God. Any tips on how to continue? Or alternates that fit the Becoming God aesthetic? Only 70% commited to paladin
>>
>>92727959
Oh, simply because I hadn't noticed it had been added since the last time I saved the txt file. I've added it to my template.
>>
>>92727646
>TQ
I have never played in a campaign that went on long enough for prestige classes to become available, thanks for reminding me.
>>
>>92728302
>Template
Oh. That makes sense. I copy paste I from the previous thread, which is why sometimes I forget to grab the title.

Okay. I was wondering if you just didn't like it and were deliberately taking it out.
>>
>>92729046
No worries! It's a legitimate concern, lord knows other generals are subject to threadwars over what is/isn't in the OP. I keep everything in a text file so that I don't need to remove stuff or in case I can't find the old OP for some reason.
>>
>>92728334
It's just as well, sometimes they're so restrictive to get into that you have to plan your character from the get-go and make a lot of choices that don't pay off UNTIL you have that prestige class.
>>
>>92729101
The quest based PRC qualification variant should be the norm.
>>
>>92727646
Eclipse + Prestige Class question: it would be cool to give them some leeway for "common options" and then make some abilities & require them to find a source of training or need to spend downtime designing new rare techniques.

Any tips on how I should divide up what's rare?

And do you think it would be better to try to *build* PRC features in Eclipse, or just eyeball prices for them?
>>
>>92729631
Honestly if the game were a little less stingy about feats and skills it wouldn't even be an issue
>>
>>92727646
>TQ
Bear Warrior+Deep Warden +Fist of the Forest

for twice [Con] modifier to AC
>>
>>92729759
That's true of most of 3.5's issues, unfortunately.
>>
>>92727646
Knight of the Raven + Ordained Champion. Going into Radiant Servant of (sun deity) after a pit stop in Crusader.
That'll take a while to come still.
Unrelated, but we are having two sessions this week and I'm stoked.
>>
>>92727646
I'm trying to think of a riddle for a sphinx, its occupying the spot where Atlas once held up the sky.
the party is there because the artificer wants a piece of Aether for an item he's going to make
>>
>>92731049
What's holding the sky up now?
>>
>>92727646
Incantatrix, after a few stops in other prestige classes. I'm at level 3 of it now so I can finally do all of the cool Incantatrix things.
>>
>>92729759
Even if they weren't making you micromanage a stingy supply of character creation & advancement beans all the while burdening you with bloated lists of bullshit prerequisites, I still think the concept of a Prestige Class makes a hell of a lot more sense if you have to unlock it in game by qualifying and gaining access to a trainer. The stingy supply of character beans and bloated prereqs just make it worse.
>>
What are general opinions on the 4 big APs? Considering starting a long term game for my playgroup and I'm eyeing using one of them as the framework for the game.
>>
>>92727646
>What's the last prestige class you took?
Radiant Servant of Pelor, although being forced to only empower/maximize one of my healing spells per level per day kinda sucks. Can't complain since it's still a decent feature but it still kinda sucks. Multiple greater turnings are awesome by itself though. Trying to decide what I'll take once I max out radiant servant at ECL 16.
>>
>>92733296
> 4 Big APs
I can not even name them if you ask me to without looking them up.

The Sunless Citadel AP?
Red Hand of Doom?
???
???

I thought the Expedition to Undermountain and Demonweb Pits were underwhelming reads but haven't run them.

I think we talked about favorite adventures last thread. Personally, give me something sandboxy so I don't have to care when the PCs don't follow your plot. Just a big ol' citybook like Waterdeep (or Ptolus). City of the Spider Queen was a fun read back in the day, but I haven't run it.

That said, I've run / played some of the PF1 ones. Rise of the Runelords was okay (published for 3.5 and PF1); Crimson Throne was an interesting city, but not a great adventure. The Drow one was not great and most of our fun had little to do with the AP and more to do with our group's shenanigans.

3pp.
Dragon's Delve was okay if you like megadungeons. Banewarrens was fun, and Ptolus is a pretty good setting to bolt an adventure on to.

Shackled City looked disjointed, but I haven't run it. There's some neat stuff in it though.
>>
>>92733733
Oop, I guess I could have specified better. Shackled City was one of them, but I was thinking Age of Worms, Savage Tide, and Red Hand of Doom. I wasn't aware of Sunless Citadel at all.

I'm totally willing to look into some suggestions. Trying to avoid megadungeons because my boys do like the chance to actually RP and enjoy being a character. City of the Spider Queen has me intrigued just by being definitely about drow, which always make for convenient and workable villains.
>>
Potentially dumb question: Say a player becomes huge, what is their vertical reach for attack purposes? With their 15ft reach would they be able to hit a creature 30ft off the ground?
>>
>>92733955
No. Just like if I'm 5ft away horizontally, and you have 5ft reach at size m, I'm just outside of your reach. Same thing, but vertical. If he's only 25ft up though, you bet.

Maybe you can take a swing during a jump, but not a full attack, and it's likely easier to dodge, but I think that's a DM call.
>>
It's been a while, someone remind me, are crowbars actually in the PHB? They seem way too useful to not be.
>"They'll steal anything that isn't bolted down!"
>lol
>implying I don't have an adamantium crowbar
>>
>>92733907
>City of the Spider Queen has me intrigued just by being definitely about drow, which always make for convenient and workable villains.
I love that module and was able to run the whole thing once. I remember one of the players trying really hard to convince the rest of the group to take Irae alive, but they struggled just to escape alive with some loot after the final confrontation (and each was at or over 20). Remember to warn players about the absolutely insane SR they'll run up against.
>>92735806
Yep, 2gp 5lbs ever since 3.0.
>>
>>92733092
I agree it definitely makes more sense, but not all DMs want to deal with that. :shrug:
>>
>>92727646
>Thread Question: What's the last prestige class you took?
It was a Cloistered Cleric of a custom deity (DM's Pantheon, it was a Purple Dragon) that had the Force Domain, that enabled it to take a prestige class (Force Missile Mage) that allowed to change the damage descriptor of the Magic Missiles (or any other force damaging spell) to any type of damage and spontaneously cast some force arcane spells.
>>
>>92727646
Revenant Blade, because Imma (werewolf) elf on a horse!
>>
>>92727646
I took two levels of Bloodclaw Master on my Thri-Kreen Warblade. Just adding to attack and damage isn't particularly exciting, but it sure pays off when you're full attacking with four kukris.
>>
Werewolf anon here.
Talked to my DM. He had no intention of making me eat the alignment shift because, in his words, 'Anon, you would take being a chaotic evil bastard to the hilt, and I don't feel like inflicting that on the party, or dealing with descriptions or roleplay of your capacity for capital E evil'.
So I need not be concerned about the real thing I was worried about, I just need to roleplay a bloodthirsty savage when I change. I can deal with that.
>>
>>92733907
IMO, grab a city book you like with stuff going on from levels 1-20, and place it in a region you like or pick one that comes with a surrounding region. It doesn't need to be a 3e book. For AD&D you can use DMG NPC stat blocks. For PF1 cities you can wing it since its stay blocks are close. If you want more exploration, a region is fine too. The adventure can happen quite well without being a railroad. Just find your local factions / powerful figures, note their resources, motivations, personality, values, and goals, and from there, that's the backbone of whatever campaign you and your players make.

But I you want a plot to follow, Sunless Citadel was one of the first ones for 3.0. It's good. Dungeon heavy, but the first book is my go-to 3e intro adventure, and I enjoyed Ptolus (Banewarrens) with it's 'multi-faction-dungeon-delve-race'.
>>
>>92737961
Oh. Well then, that's easy enough.
>>
How do you deal with LA and HD for players?
Do you not bother?
Homebrew it?
Use the negative level idea from Players Guide to Faruen?
Use the Savage Progression web articles?
>>
>>92741207
Our DM just uses it as is.
We have a knight/warblade half-dragon in the party, for example.
I don't think he realizes how much that LA is holding him back, but he enjoys his character and the warblade levels does mean has a decent number of tricks to play with, so that's fine I guess.
He's having fun so far.
>>
>>92741207
Eliminate racial HD and skills (try to preserve bonuses), scale back anything HD-dependent like SR (assuming I'm not swapping general SR for something else) and feats, and ignore LA. If things still feel out of balance and one of the players is running a human or similar, then boost those players. Also tend to use slow advancement if the group wants a normal campaign.
>>
>>92741207
Either the giantitp negative LA and LA reassignment, or the PF1/Challenging Challenge Ratings ECL = CR–1.

Sometimes I've also extracted a list of abilities and minimum HD and any notably racial skill bonuses, priced them with CCRv5, and assigned a minimum starting class level equal to the RHD, and then the priced abilities can be bought as feats or as ACFs, and often some one that are minor at the minimum starting level, like a low level SLA, I hand out for free.

Its been like 15 years since the last time I did LA by the book.
>>
>Speak with Animals

>You can comprehend and communicate with animals.
>You are able to ask questions of and receive answers from animals
> wary and cunning animals are likely to be terse and evasive, while the more stupid ones make inane comments.

>Dire Wolf

as a DM what limits / boundaries would you set for this spell as in 'an animal isn't going to understand these concepts' and where does this spell intersect with the Handle Animal training.

Or to come at it from another angle:
If I can SwA and tell the wolf 'when you see me point at tracks or hold up an item and say track this for me, I want you to try and follow the scent and lead me' why would I need to spend weeks on training?
>>
follow up >>92742776

Would it be reasonable for DM to rule that
>You are able to ask questions of and receive answers from animals
>this does not mean that get to give the animal instructions or teach it things
>in fact, you cannot impart any information on the animal
>when the spell runs out it will forget the specifics of everything that was said but will remember demeanor, mood of the interaction
>>
>>92742798
I wouldn't. Seems unnecessary to me.

>>92742776
Random animals can talk to you. Doesn't mean they'll always do what you want. Even trained animals always don't always do what you want in this edition.

If you have speak with animals, I would allow you to train tricks faster. But they're still only int 2.
>>
>>92742852
>If you have speak with animals, I would allow you to train tricks faster. But they're still only int 2.
my problem with that is that Handle Animal and training tricks was always aimed as a core skill for Druids and Rangers who have that spell which would naturally be very useful for training if it allowed free communication. I've had pets IRL - they are pretty damn smart for all those roles and the biggest hurdle is always just getting them to understand what I want them to do.

If that spell was meant to make training tricks easier, surely it would be mentioned somewhere in source materials.

and if it was not meant to make training go faster than the question becomes - how could it not?
>>
>>92727646
>TQ
None because most psionic prestige classes suck. I'm not spending three feats and losing three manifester levels just to hover.
>>
>>92739856
True.
I'm still going with the New Moon Pact idea, and if I can take over the entire lycanthrope encampment (may die doing it tho), I'll take like 25 of them along with me.
Being the good guy is neveran easy road, I reckon.
>I'm pretty sure the alpha is a werewolf lord, Corellon help me
>>92741207
I have run it straight in my games, as does my DM, but then our games are more low power level on both sides,so it doesn't become as much an issue as it could at other tables.
>>
>>92745133
Domesticated animals have been bred for generations to be cooperative. Not all animals are so cooperative. Even when my cat understands me because its something they've done for me before, there's like a 40% chance they ignore my request. My dog doesn't always listen if there are interesting smells or food involved. And those are domesticated animals. Wild animals are more independent even if they understand you. A Grizzly Bear or a Wolf or a Leopard is not a dog.

But I agree, speak with animals would absolutely get though the barrier to having them understand, even if it doesn't bypass the maximum number of tricks they can remember or change their personality to be more cooperative.
>>
>>92741207
can't you remove RHD by losing levels?
the issue is being able to fund that.
>>
>>92745790
>Even when my cat understands me because its something they've done for me before, there's like a 40% chance they ignore my request
>cast Speak with Animals, "Bro, can you sit somewhere else than behind the books in my bookcase"
>cat goes to sleep behind books
>>
>>92746675
Exactly so. Though in my case: "dude. You know you're not supposed to climb on top of my desk, or sleep on my wacom, and you can't sit in from of the TV because you try to attack stuff on the screen.

Off the desk. Shoo"

And then there's a decent chance she ignores me and I have to chase her off the desk or move towards her while hissing.
>>
Anyone here ever run this campaign?
>>
>>92750042
No, always thought it looked cool though.
>>
I took some bits from Sword and Sorcery. is that the setting that's loosely based on Greek myth where the world is screwed up by an ancient war between titans and gods, and there are physical pieces of the titans left everywhere corrupting the lands?
>>
>>92750838
Scarred Lands is the name of the setting, Sword and Sorcery is the company (actually an imprint of White Wolf) that did it.
>>
>>92750838
Sword and Sorcery is a d20 white wolf publishing branch. They did a few settings, a few rulebooks, and also published some stuff for other people.
>>
>>92727646
Haven't played him but I've been theorycrafting an Ordained Champion Bone Knight

One using Troll Blooded for a hilarious "Very short list of weaknesses" pan-immunity build and the other trying to walk that back to something less OP.

>>92728261
The Becoming God? Which one is that?
>>
>>92751650
Warforged are building a god for themselves in the Mournland. Warforged all over Eberron are looking for objects to add to this new gods body. Might make for an interesting character a paladin seeking holy objects or artifacts to take to the build site and add to the god.
>>
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I'm going to be running a D&D campaign starting next Monday. What adventures do you recommend?
>>
>>92752732
See >>92733733
If you've never run a TTRPG before, sunless citadel 100%. Otherwise, improvise an adventure from a sandbox like Waterdeep or Ptolus.

Alternatively, you might consider City of the Spider Queen, like >>92733907 describes, or you could try Wilderlands of High Fantasy >>92750042.
>>
>>92728261
>>92751650
>>92751762
Tentative build is duskblade 2 paladin 3 duskblade 2 into abjurant champion
1 adamantine body
3 power attack
6 arcane disciple(warforged domain)
9 battle caster

The idea is to only ever cast lesser deflect and use lay on hands to heal until I reach level 9
>>
Anyone know if there is a book out there for historically accurate arms and armor?
>>
SRD doesn't say when the subdual damage from starvation/dehydration actually rolls over and kills you.

Or CO2 running out of air style of suffocation rather than completely buried/airless vacuum/drowning style.
>>
>>92759749
Not that I am aware of, but AE base weapons are often mentioned as being better designed. Check those.

>>92760913
Have you checked the DMG/PHB? The SRD is missing stuff. It's not quite the whole core rules. As an example, it doesn't quite have the complete rules for animal companions, and it doesn't include the full character creation procedures.
>>
>>92761842
Didn't have access at the time, giving it a look now.


Ahh the DMG doesn't directly say it in the entry, but the base rules for nonlethal damage say that once you're past 0 or -10 nonlethal it rolls into lethal.

Interestingly regeneration says it can't RECOVER nonlethal damage from starvation/ slow suffocation, but it doesn't say that the "Lethal starvation damage" isn't converted back into nonlethal.

So you could starve/dehydrate a troll into a coma that can only be cured by forcing down huge amounts of water&food
>>
>>92759749
What, for description and images or stats? You'd have better luck with AD&D books and Dragon Magazine articles.
>>
>>92764993
Actually, that's not a bad idea.

>>92759749
Consider converting base equipment from ACKS.
>>
Somebody once recommended Incursion D20 to me in this thread.
This thing is fucking hard holy shit.
It's pretty fun too.
Kind of makes me want to try and program a D20 game of my own.
Or at least get the source code for incursion and extend it to read some external resources so that it's possible to add stuff to the game.
>>
>>92766605
There's a foundry module. And there's also NWN1, which is highly customisable.
>>
Do sorcerers/wizards require the Use Magic Device skill to be able to use a scroll or a wand or similar items, or can they use them without it on their own?

Is use Magic device a necessary thing for such arcane classes, or is it mostly for non-magic folks to be able to use such items?
>>
>>92766745
They'd need use magic device to use a scroll of a spell that's not on their spell list, is my noobish understanding.
>>
>>92766760
spell list, but not spells known, ya?
>>
>>92766786
Yep.
It's a way for a sorcerer for example to have that one emergency spell that's not worth a spell known slot but that could save their asses when the it's needed.
The relevant text : https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm
> To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
>
> The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
> The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
> The user must have the requisite ability score.
>>
>>92766806
does the same go for wands?
>>
>>92766745
Use magic device lets you use magic item you're not supposed to be able to use. Like a wizard using divine scrolls, or a human using fey-restricted items, or a good character using evil-only items. If you're using in-class, in-race, in-alignment items, the skill is irrelevant.
>>
>>92766829
Wands are Spell Trigger Activated Items, so yeah.
>https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#spellTrigger
>...Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) ...
>>
>>92766829
It goes for any spell completion items, or other items for which you do not qualify to use. A wand is usually spell activation (so yes), but you could build a wand anyone could use if you were so inclined. (It would cost more).
>>
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>>92727646
TQ: last 3.5 game i was in, each player had two characters. I was:

Raorani, a Lion Man (statted as Half Minotaur Marrulurk sans the gore attack) Paladin 2 [Harmonious Knight, Hunter of Fiends, Inquisitor acfs] / Hellreaver 5

Gorelev, a Lesser Drow Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 1/ Squire of Legend 3/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Divine Disciple 4

One would smite the Demons, the other would do everything else. They were buddies in arms.
>>
>>92727646
>Thread Question: What's the last prestige class you took?
abjurant champion, there's no reason not to, really, full bab and casting, plus some nice bonuses
i'll be going order of the bow initiate on another character, i know it's not good, but for a small thing it might be fun.
>>
>>92768459
>Church Inquisitor 1
It's so cool that you can get into that class at level 4.
A shame that the general flavor of the class doesn't fit my character's story, otherwise I'd totally would have taken that dip.
>Squire of Legend
Never heard of that one. What's that class about?
>>
>>92768459
>Lion Man
My nigga!
>>
Are there any rules for removing magic items that just make numbers go up, like Pathfinder has with inherent item bonuses? Or, any reason not to just use that?
>>
>>92773887
Officially?
>Are there any rules for removing magic items that just make numbers go up, like Pathfinder has with inherent item bonuses?
Official first party stuff? No.

>Or, any reason not to just use that?
Because it's a terrible implementation of the idea, and in practice different character types prioritizes different core items, and it's not a good 'fix' for Pathfinder either.

>What to do instead
Trailblazer has an adjusted WBL for when you have removed those benefits, and has a track of when you're expected to have them on average. Use that to make the beginnings of a buffet, expand on the list with items that actually compete with those bonuses for other classes, and then give your players a point budget for those effects they get to spend on levelup.
If you are using eclipse, instead of grabbing the effects based on cash value you can base it on the point price of those features as abilities if you prefer.

Make sure the bonuses have the appropriate types to prevent any potential unexpected bonus stacking.
>>
Is 3.5 still worth running compared to 5e? I have some players guides at home. Now sure how differant the rules are compared to 5e but it seems like fun.
>>
>>92777700
5e is a lot simpler and constrained in general.
3.5e has more moving parts but also gives you a lot more tools to do things.
That's the general gist of it. Each edition has its pitfalls, but I think in general it's about relative simplicity vs having tons of parts (classes, monsters, systems, items, etc) to play with.
I play both, I enjoy both but 3.5e is by far my favorite.
>>
>>92777700
3.5 is a lot less constrained. For instance, nearly every monster is playable (though not all are very good), or can be given actual class levels if you so want. It is different, but I definitely think its better (but also not perfect)
>>
>>92778649
Having creatures, npcs, and PCs essentially use the same rules for creation and advancement is really, really cool in my opinion.
>>
>>92778670
I like them having the same math, but I have definitely wasted time trying to make sure NPC enemies were rules legal characters, following all the right steps to build them. Don't do that. Haha.

Otherwise, yeah. I really appreciate templates. You want to see if a PC gets infected with lycanthropy? That's covered. You want to know what they get as a werewolf? Covered two ways.

You want to make the PCs fight a vampire Minotaur? That's covered too.

3.5 has parts I don't like, but it also has a ton of stuff I like a lot that other games (like 5e) just don't cover at all.

One of your players wants to play an awakened squirrel, at squirrel size with squirrel-appropriate strength? Covered.

A 12ft tall ogre mage PC? You bet.
>>
>>92778721
>One of your players wants to play an awakened squirrel, at squirrel size with squirrel-appropriate strength? Covered.
Well, not quite, since Awaken didn't get an LA'd template and doesn't fix LA: - on normally-unplayable creatures, but Instantaneous spell effect benefits in backstory are generally a mechanically-horrid situation.
>>
>>92778768
Ah, I've allowed awakened animals before. Must have been in PF1 by the time I was jut operating on a basic ECL = CR-1 rather than depending on LA+HD, or I did a small amount of homebrewing to assign an LA. In 5e though, a tiny sized PC is just not even close to doable.
>>
>>92777700
There is no instance where I would play 5E instead of 3.5, so yes.
>>
>>92779278
>>92777700
>There is no instance where I would play 5E instead of 3.5, so yes.

There is no instance where I would play 5E again, period. I would rather stay home and read a book.

I will happily play 3.5 (with homebrew) though.

So another yes.
>>
>>92777700
You'll find it similar on the surface, but the details differ.

You're still rolling a d20 and adding numbers, but skills are raised individually, you don't need all of them maxed out, and they cap out at (level+3) or (level+3)/2, for instance.

And the game as a whole is just a lot more detailed and note fleshed out. There's just a lot more game to be had with 3e. Its not held together with GM fiat and bubblegum, it's a more complete game.
>>
Show of hands, has anyone ACTUALLY worshiped Kord?
>>
So, I've been ripping art out of my PDFs for an online game, and for comparison I also ripped art from an old OCR copy. Anyways.

Holy fuck is the picture quality on those Vault OEF PDFs fucking terrible. I never realize just *how* blurry they are. Anyone have any straight from DMs Guild? Are they much better? Or are they shit quality too?
>>
>>92781528
I have never played Greyhawk, just FR, Ravenloft, homebrew with made up gods, Homebrew with FR gods, Golarion, and Spelljammer.
>>
>>92782357
Example. Top is the Vault OEF-Based one I have. So goddamn blurry.
>>
>>92773887
>removing
no, it's pretty much assumed you'll get these as part of your WBL
you could either
>encourage getting other items
MiC p234 lists "standard improvements" to magic items, that are just stats boosts and should not incur the usual combining cost, encouraging buying other items
>>
>>92782502
I think he means rules to not have to track those, like the (crappy) ones Pathfinder added in Unchained. Which is why I suggested he pick up Trailblazer and take a look at their 'spine' math analysis and this table, and then give a points-budget for essential items. That's 'Big Six' for the martials, but it's not all 'Big-Six' for casters. A sorcerer does not need a +5 weapon, for instance, and might want a displacement style miss chance defensive item instead of +AC, or what have you. X/Day spell in a can items are also reasonable candidates. Invisibility, Displacement, Mage Armor - there are a variety of replacements for the big-six that I would allow as replacements for your big-six budget.

I would probably smooth out the progression though.
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>>92777700
5e is the kiddie pool with floaties on, 3.5 is the ocean with no borders

they're both similar (swimming) but a really different experience.

you can forget about bonded accuracy or "mother may i" skill checks, either you can or you can't, and you get new stuff (be it just skill points... or a skill trick!) every level
more feats, bigger bonuses, prestige classes, alternative magic systems, wuxia blade magic
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>>92783588
And that's before you consider the many optional subsystems for spell duels, statecraft, criminal investigations, court cases, wilderness exploration, architecture, mass combat, faction/guild/church affiliation and benefits, research, permanent transmogrification, possession, vehicle combat, etc
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>>92777700
Did you really come to the thread full of guys who choose to run 3.5 over 5e to ask if there's a reason to run 3.5 over 5e?
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>>92783740
might as well go to a cheesemaker to ask what's cool about cheesemaking, i guess
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>>92783857
Did you get any good answers regarding why we prefer 3e over 5e?

Most of the 2e mechanical content got a 3e conversion too, so for 3e you can use almost the entire 2e catalogue of settings, plus the 3e ones (which are all much better than their bland 5e equivalents, IMO).

It's better in nearly every way.

(The real question *I* would ask is for people here to tell you what we *DON'T* like about 3e, and how we deal with it, so you can skip the crappy parts and still reap the benefits, IMO).
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>>92783857
>The real question *I* would ask
That is, assuming you have enough interest to warrant the question.
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>>92777700
I'm in a 3.5 campaign right now
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Anons, I started from PF1e through vidya and graduated to ttrpg (not a zoomer but late bloomer). I don't like the extreme balance of 2e or the minimalism of 5e.

Why should someone new choose to play DnD 3.5e instead of PF1e (which has been described as DnD 3.75), other than not liking Golarion as a setting or its cosmology?
Not bullshitting btw, just genuinely want to know your "side", I guess.
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>>92788846
First-party content covers a lot more ground and there's a significantly better body of number-crunching on it. DSP subsystem ports have some weird design trends and streamline high performance a bit too much, while the MoI and ToB counterparts don't actually share content so the advice is entirely independent.
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>>92788846
>Why should someone new choose to play DnD 3.5e instead of PF1e (which has been described as DnD 3.75),
That's been asked a couple of times in these threads.
Pathfinder is not really an upgrade over 3.5e, it's more of a lateral move.
Between their class philosophy (focusing on railroaded archetypes over PRCs, ACFs, and substitution levels), the pulverizing of feats, the consolidation of skills, the changes to polymorph, the addition of CMB/CMD,the pulverization of feats, etc etc, there are a bunch of changes that people will like or dislike individually based purely on taste.
A few things, like getting rid of LA and using CR instead, are closer to being universally liked, I think, but in general, there are reasons to stick with either, or even better, chose the one you like best as a base and port some things over.
>, I started from PF1e through vidya and graduated to ttrpg
I enjoyed the PF videogames greatly too.
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>>92788846
I mix both together. PF1 is better in some areas (base classes, spell design, Unchained quicker monster builder, bestiaries) and worse in others (feats, prestige classes, spellcasting, skills, animal companions). Cherrypick the best parts of both.

You should also check out Distant Horizons' Eclipse, Arcana Evolved, Challenging Challenge Ratings, and Trailblazer.
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>>92788906
>LA.
Yeah, LA was poorly implemented. Paizo was right to use the Challenging Challenge Ratings version of ECL=CR-1 (that's how Paizo does it too, right?) instead.
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>>92788899
>>92788906
>>92788993
Thank you very much for your input guys. I'm at this stage where I gather every basic information available like a sponge, so you helped me a lot.
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>>92777700
The only way 5e is better is that it probably has more players. 3.5 is more coherent lore-wise and has more content.
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>>92789847
When I say PF spell design is better, I don't mean the published spells. I mean the guidelines for players to design their own spells in Ultimate Magic are better than the ones in Time and Blood.

But yes. Some parts are better, other parts are worse.

AE I like the basic equipment. But you may prefer their magic system or classes. Magic of Faerûn is full of good stuff too.

Anyways. I don't hate everything in PF1 but its not a universal improvement over 3.5. A lot of its stuff on the player side is just worse. Their QA was particularly terrible, so you find yourself digging through mountains of shit to find something good.

Eclipse is much easier to prevent your players from hamstringing themselves than either, IMO. Just give out some stuff pre-spent to everyone to ensure event minimums, unless a player knows what they're doing.
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>>92790395
Decent
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Can the other OP make a new thread?
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NEW THREAD
>>92793157
>>92793157
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>>92792906
one week autosage is going to be the death of us all



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