Fuck it...this is peak DnD for me.
>>93141547I agree, anon. Makes me happy seeing more and more people picking the system up and giving a shot for the first time or going back to it now that 5e is basically dead.
>>93141642>now that 5e is basically dead.Your brain universe is a weird place, considering we're talking about far-and-away the most played RPG. If 5e is basically dead, every other RPG is ashes spread across the ocean.
>>93141670I'm honestly interested to see how things would fare after d&done release, i'm not sure how the 5e crowd will react.
>>93141547... ok?Who asked?
Niche game attracts niche gamers over time. Shocking.
>>931416705e is winding down, 5.5 is a few months away, people are stepping back and going "while we wait, let's play other stuff." On top of that, the OGL and AI debacles are seeing a chunk of the player base leave it as well. Maybe not a majority, but enough that it is noticed.
>>93141791>OGL and AI debaclesYou mean nontroversies?What is it with retards trying to inflate/exaggerate the importance of these, all the way to the point of misrepresenting what the OGL actually is or what the AI issue even was?I get that some losers like to roleplay as street samurai fighting the evil corpos, but the amount of misinformation that these losers are so eager to spread about these is kind of ridiculous. WotC already does enough bad/shady shit to not have to make shit up.
>>93141670There's a difference between "commercially dead" and "creatively dead." Sure, Star Wars is technically still around, and will be as long as there are consoomers who can't let go of it, but anyone who hasn't built their personality around it can see it for the rotting cadaver that it is.
>>93141703>d&doneHow did this name pass marketing?
Based king
>>93142155Context. The poster was talking about people moving away from 5e, when nothing indicates that at all. 5e has had anemic releases since the edition began, but that has done little to hold it back. Part of this is an obscene amount of 3rd party content creators publishing a seemingly endless flood of material, in no small part thanks to kickstarter/patreon. One of the many reasons that WotC keeps pushing back the next edition is because 5e is still making money thanks to Beyond and the DM marketplace despite WotC themselves having traded all of its writers/designers for inclusivity consultants and social media managers.
>>93141547And when 4e came out you were posting 3e as the best.
>>93142569Yeah, but that's because 4E at the time of its release was legitimately worse than 3.5. It took about a year and a half for that to not be true.
Why can't the company support all editions with new material regularly?Its not like they don't know people still play older editions. They could literally rebrand the whole thing so people looking for different experiences could enjoy different D&Ds.I never understood why newer editions must overwrite all D&D.
>>93142805Because the way they see it, there's less incentive to invest in new stuff if people still buy the old stuff. Yes, even the new stuff for the old stuff. No reason to have a new edition if yu're keeping a foot in the old one.>but they could just make a different game instead of a new editionThen they'd lose brand recognition.
>>93142805They did try supporting two editions back in the day, with Basic and AD&D, but it didn't work as well as you'd think. And one of 5e's major strengths is its market dominance. Splitting its playerbase wouldn't do them any particular favors.
>>93142952Except according to the data that has been pulled out, both editions still sold, it's just they ended up then trying to sell 50 different settings at the same time, each with support lines, and without adjusting prices.Meanwhile 3e showed that if you put out setting books every so often and price them marginally higher than rule books, they don't sell as many but they do make a longer term (and greater) profit if the lore nerds start passing it around word of mouth style.The issue of course is that long term gains are seen as less valuable over market volatility, because market volatility makes for incredible short term gains and the ability to jump ship and go to a new company when it starts to swing the other direction.
>>93141547Glad people are finally waking up to how good 4E is. It wasn't perfect, but it was aggressively its own thing in some of the best ways.
>>93142155How can 5e be creatively dead when it was never even creatively alive to begin with?
>>93142589It took nearly 3 years for dark sun and reved monsters, phb3, etc.So no, it took about 3 years for it to be just barely worse than 3.0 and never reached 3.5.Some of the art was at least nice.
>>93143968It was aggressively shit.WOTC barely got it to out the box playable with dark sun and thus essentials.People are just looking for anything that still had a creative spark of a soul left and a fraction less SWJ shit (thus discarding PF2e from the options pool) than 6e. And unlike 1-3e, 4th ed is at least braindead accessible on the player side like 5e.
>>93141547>accuses of being video gamey>no video games How did this happen? There's Neverwinter but that isn't really a 4e video game.
>>931441644e is too interactive to work as a videogame.
>>93142170The dipshits at Hasbro figured they could avoid the XBone type mockery if they put one in front of it, but predictably, One D&D just gets called D&Done. I don't know why executives this is such a good naming convention, it's clearly bait to get dunked on every single time.
>>93144164Atari. Atari happened.
>>93141547filthy tourist here, is that the same artist that worked on Pathfinder?
You're allowed to have bad taste and indefensible opinions.
>>93144863>I don't know why marketers are always doing this thing that generates free advertising for years in a social environment where attention is hard to come by without dedicated hatersGee what a mystery
>>93144960Wayne Reynolds, yes, he also does a lot of Magic the Gathering art in exactly this style.
>>93144164Probably because the accusation of it being video gamey was always dumb wank. The only genre it would have worked for is a very niche one: isometric turn-based class tactical RPGs, ala Final Fantasy Tactics. Not worth the dev cost, especially when your current tech consultant is shitting the bed on getting a VTT off the ground before murder-suicide. D&D 4e made the terrible crime of being obvious with existing mechanics and consistent with its game and graphic design, and that was a bridge too far for functional illiterates who were still mad about having wasted several thousand dollars on a game that was nose-diving in popularity. It's harder to ignore rules you don't like if they're blatant, easy to reference, and in technicolor. Being shameless about D&D's gamist functioning and design philosophy reminded a certain type of complete bumbling retard of the only other time they'd been confronted with the same aesthetic and blatant gamism: video games based directly on earlier editions of D&D. And so they're still making new beds to shit in to this day.
Nah, it's this.
>>931451984E would have worked fine for a ToEE-like game. You can see it in the turn-based Divinity games because they took inspiration.
>>93145198Well see, 4e was also extremely like a video game
>>93141547D&D TiersGreat Tier4e, BECMI, B/XGood Tier1e, 2eMeh Tier5eBad Tier3.x
>>93145224Eh, maybe. I think it's too married to the squares thing.
>>93145277I guess. Those all seem to be for very different audiences, each and every one of them.
>>93145334So was 3.5 and ToEE still managed.
Come play 3.0 with my anon, I let you take the spellfire wielder feat
>>931453543.5 at least pretended you could play it with feet and maybe a ruler. Not saying that's a positive, but it makes translating to a video game trivial.
>>93145405Hi! Kill yourself.
>>93145417
>>93145198The actual reason was that 4e games were in development, but all sorts of shit happened that wound up getting them delayed/canceled, including a murder and suicide. Remember, BG3 spent 9 years in planning (20 if you include the Black Isle versions), and 5 years in active development, which only started four years after 5e was released.4e was realeased in 2008, and 5e was released in 2014, which is only six years. There just wasn't enough time or interest in getting the 4e games done in time, despite it very much being an extremely video-game oriented system.
>>93145405Why do people cry about splatbooks? They're optional
>>93145724You clearly don't know how bad it was in the 2000s.
>>93141547I really liked warlord and artificer and some of the Dragon Magazine options in 4e. In fact I seriously miss Dragon Magazine shit in general, WotC are so fucking anemic in their release schedule these days
I first got into D&D and tg in general after reading the 4e monster manual at my local library as a kid. I'm nearly 30 now, and I still have good nostalgia about older editions and settings, and feel sad that newer generations are being brainwashed with new, soulless garbage.
>>93145750Its not bad though, you can just ignore them
>>93142952>And one of 5e's major strengths is its market dominance. Splitting its playerbase wouldn't do them any particular favors.This isn't a terribly compelling argument, you look at any other industry and you'll see diversification and multiple product offerings ends up being a net benefit. Even WotC themselves benefit from this by owning Magic the Gathering *and* Dungeons and Dragons and purposefully tying the two together more and more. Riot don't lose money by running both League and Valorant, if WotC had released a D&D Tactics side game that played like 4E while maintaining 3.5 it's not like they'd have burst into flames. The reason TSR went fucking bankrupt was corporate malfeasance and blowing all their money advertising dumb shit and in a world before the Internet and digital distribution printing a bunch of stuff that competed for shelf space at local retailers who they had to be beholden to in order to sell their products. Now it's the other way around, LGS can't compete with Amazon and they're the ones who need WOTC to drive traffic to stores in-person, WOTC can make a trillion PDFs of whatever book they want and sell it on D& Beyond for no cost. The third party rules scene for D&D shit is so popular WotC shot themselves in the foot trying to nuke the OGL to grab a piece of the pie instead of simply saying "hey, why don't we put out more than one book every four years ourselves?" Hasbro are an incompetent toy company. If you want to look at a successful toy company, look at Games Workshop, you're basically arguing that GW making Kill Team and Horus Heresy tabletop games was a bad idea and they should have just focused on 40k when the side games are enormously successful and make them money hand over fist, Kill Team has gotten so many people to buy into the hobby who never would have otherwise.
>>93142805>I never understood why newer editions must overwrite all D&D.Dolla dolla bills y'all! If they don't overwrite the old edition you won't be rebuying all the core books again for NEW edition>>93145750>>93145787>optional>ignoreI have it on very good authority from D&D players when GURPS is mentioned that you must use all splat books, all the time, for everything.
>>93148795Bah >>93145750 was supposed to be >>93145724
>>93145405Heck, why not; does 3.0 have a Hulking Hurler equivalent?
>>93142805Wizards, as is, can barely support ONE edition with regular material.It ain't like back in the 3.5 days where you'd have 1-2 new first party books coming out every month, plus dungeon and dragon magazines and web supplements. Nowadays you're lucky if you get a single new book every quarter where more than half of the content in it isn't reprints of old shit.
>>93148924Constantly releasing content is extremely inefficient for profit-seeking.
>>93145617>4e was realeased in 2008, and 5e was released in 2014, which is only six years. There just wasn't enough time or interest in getting the 4e games done in time, despite it very much being an extremely video-game oriented system.There was also the factor that 4e was pretty much assassinated development side 2 years in with the shift to Essentials and the failure of that was used to justify developing 5e. 4e only had a 4 year period where video game licensing was possible.
>>93149060God damn I wish I could kill Crawford. Not just for pretty mundane and routine corporate malfeasance for career reasons, but the habit he makes of being a complete pill. Sadly, I have no arms or legs or teeth and spend all day using eye movements to shitpost on 4chan because it's the only website my web browser is set to.
>>93145277>2e>Good tierJesus Christ that is just outright delusional. 2e was so fucking bad that 3e was considered a god send for rule simplification. 2e was never play tested for shit and was explicitly made JUST to screw Gygax out of royalties. How can anyone view it as anything but total dogshit unless they are JUST being an outright troll.
>>93149077Damn that's rough.
>>93145277Yeah, nah.>Top-tierB/X>Good-tierBECMI, 4e, 3.5 (late), 1e>Meh-tier5e, 4e Essentials, 1e, 3.5 (early)>Shit-tier3.0, 2e3.5's place on the list is pretty hard to pin down because it depends on whether you're looking at it narrowly as an update to 3.0 and either discounting splats or weighing them all equally or if you're assuming the more realistic use case of people cherry-picking good splats and ignoring the rest.
>>93149204Genuinely senseless opinions. No through-thread.
>>93144863Also, the acronym for One D&D is OD&D so they probably thought it would let them do some SEO fuckery and push osr shit off of the first page of search results.
>>93149085>the oft touted purity spiral in actionStop being a meanie
>>93141724I did>>93141724
>>931425894e was always better than 3.5There is nothing that 3.0 and 3.5 do that the basic or advanced line hadn't done already and better. There is no reason for these games to exist.4e knew what it wanted to be and did it well.>Muh monster mathDoesn't even become relevant until Paragon tier, which isn't a level range most complainerd ever reached. It's pure cargo cult whining.
>>93142805Writing 4e material is actual work, since it's expected to get some decent testing and balancing. 5e material is just "lmao whatever", if they give rules at all.
>>93141547If I wanted to learn 4e is there a specific book I should read? Like I know there's PHB1 and 2, but which one has the best version of the rules?
>>93141547Time makes grognards of us all...
>>93150215PHB 1, DMG 1 and the Monster Manuals are what you need, although people will recommend you use only MM3 and Monster Vault/Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale enemies because the math involved in their stats is fixed/improved. You can use MM1 and 2 monsters, just know that if they seem beefy and hard to hit, they should probably have their HP and defenses reduced but their damage increased. You can also convert them to MM3 math. DMG 2 has a rework for skill challenges but I haven't gotten around to that.PHB 2 isn't strictly necessary but revisits some PHB 1 content like certain skill checks being reworded (stealth) and a bunch of classic D&D classes made it into 2 because the devs needed more time to work on them. PHB 3 is more advanced stuff like psionics. The Power books all give additional options for pre-existing classes, and the Eberron and Forgotten Realms Players Guides add a few races plus Artificer and Swordmage respectively.Try and find the errata, the devs were going for a balanced approach to class design so things would get updated later on.Recommend that you avoid anything marked "Essentials", they don't play like core 4e classes and greatly slim down your options and the classes themselves run the gamut from strong and 1-dimensional to weak. The feats from their books are worthwhile though.Hope this helps anon.
>>93145277>>93149204Genuine question, why do people rate BECMI or B/X higher than AD&D?
>>93150801Less clunk and bloat.
>>93150856Most of the systems within AD&D are the clunk and bloat I'd say you're going to end up adding if you run a long term campaign, the difference is that it was designed in conjunction with the system rather than bolted on. It covers its bases.
>>93150215PHB1 and the Rules Compendium.PHB is PHB, and while it says "Essentials" on the Rules Compendium, it's really just 4e with most of the errata.Some people swear by the DMG, but I think it's mostly chaff unless you want the rules on how to modify and homebrew monsters and I guess traps. Most of this stuff doesn't need a full read-through, just flipping to it in a pdf when you need it is enough.Monster Manuals are Monster Manuals. They are fun to flip through to look for inspiration.People talk about using MM3 math, but that's only an issue past level 10.What you really need to run a game is the 4e wiki and a rip of the 4e compendium (not the Rules Compendium, the one they had on DnD insider). There's a website up and there's also an offline rip. The compendium has basically everything ever released and almost everything is updated to its final form. I've been running a campaign the past two months that's just taking premade adventures and gluing them together with some help of the compendium.
>>93150801B/X and BECMI were pretty much focused on hexcrawls and dungeon diving. To THIS DAY, D&D is a damn good system for those two styles of play and having systems that lean into that style really let's the good bits shine bright. Every other system (including AD&D) moves away from that core game concept to varying degrees.
>>93141547You can tell it is a good game because nobody ever talks about running the game or related topics about the game.
>>93151281Fair point, although one may argue that the reason why it doesn't get enough traction for his own general is because of /tg/ general demographic (3e era millennials + late millennials and early zoomers that adopted 5e), the 6 years 4e gap (2008-2014) wasn't enough to form a significant /tg/ original userbase, although with people branching off we're seeing a resurgence in interest about older d&d editions.
>>93145405
>>93151166You really need to take off the rose tinted glasses. I won't speak to BECMI, but did B/X have rules on wilderness exploration? Yes... Very bare bone rules (p. X54-59). The rules for drawing a map are literally, "Draw a map...". So, much of it is just wing it and hope to get something interesting.
>>93150163Suicide grade copium.It never even beat 3.0 release quality, from class design to player options and especially on game style support and DM work reduction/out of box playable factor.
>>93141547Cool story fake grog.
I liked 4E as well. I always thought of it as a new BECMI that needed a new AD&D to go with it.
>>93151371
Been collecting 4e, any tips for starting dms?
>>931561054e is probably the easiest version to dm, just make sure to use this math >>93150750. The early monsters only do like 1/2 the damage they should.
>>93145413At this point, you could easily just use the same rule for 4e. Just change it so 1 square is 5 feet and bring out the ruler.It's not like it's pivotal for the game to be non-euclidean.
>>93155850Based.
>>93156105here's monster math
4rries are the vegans of tabletop games.
>>93145413>>93156554Yea, it's possible to build a 3.5 party which is just as grid-dependent as a 4e group, the basic system doesn't change it's just a matter of emphasis.
>>93142805Mmm, orc musclegirls.
>>93141547It's a great filter for people who want "RPG-as-wargame" to stay away from my table. I, therefore, encourage those who like it to continue playing it forever!
God damn did I love the 4e Swordmage. Nothing in 5e feels the same. Eldright Knight definitely not, then I waited a hundred years for them to release Bladesinger, which I guess is supposed to be the spiritual successor, but that's not the same either. Swordmage was a frontline tank!I hope we get something like it in 5.5 or whatever they're calling the new one. I hate having to homebrew or do some clunky multiclass to try and approximate what was already perfect
>>93157198Paladin
>>93156607No need to be so complicated.
>>93145446Fuck your opinions on whatever editions.These are still the best covers for a gaming book.
>>931517653.0's release quality was complete gutter trash, you high ass retard. The game fell apart at level 5.
>>93157927They're fine. The concept is better than the execution.
>>93142101>You mean nontroversies?D&D is down like 30% and lost over 40,000 Beyond subscribers.
>>93145198I mean the guy who designed it directly said it was inspired by and meant to take after MMOs, so.
>>93141547I enjoyed 4e a lot in a lot of ways. I wasn't crazy about going through books and picking magic items if we were making characters at higher levels, but that's not a 4e specific complaint - I don't particularly care for spending money on gear in Shadowrun, either.One thing I really like about 4e is the dwarf aesthetic. +2 racial bonus to cup size.
>>93141547Based OP. I played everything from 2e onwards, with dabblings in Basic. 4e was still my favorite system and my favorite base setting.
>>93141547As long as you remember to cut down the HP for every monster to 1/4th, you're golden. Still my favorite Monk of any D&D I've ever played.
>>93141547Agreed
>>93156133Level 2 monsters routinely have Encounter (Recharge) powers that deal several D6 damage.Source: I killed the avenger from slightly above bloodied with a single crit. Just straight to dead.We'll see what changes, but so far damage output on monsters wasn't the issue. I did tune up premade encounters with one or two additional enemies, but the premade ones tend to be underpowered.
>>93145222now that's a hot musclegirl
>>93158142Yeah, it's Tank/Heal/DPS/CC role split between classes and codifying abilities for everyone.Funnily, hotbar abilities are an evolution of spells, so that was basically just looking at your offshoot descendant and going "hey, we should have done this for everyone all along".
>>93160297Sounds like you're doing something wrong. I don't think there's a single level 2 enemy that can do 30+ damage in a single hit.
>>93141547Fuck it... OP is peak retard
>>93156607>>93157914If they only bothered to put this math in the monster manuals instead of the failed one.And besides, imagine thinking that a monster system you can write like that is a good one. What a boring game. And they fell in the same trap with PF2e.
>>93157978The game lasted for 20 years. 4e crashed and burned.More 4rrie cope.
>>93154831>I always thought of it as a new BECMIYou have no understanding of BECMI. The stakes, the SoDs, the way combat works in becmi is antithesis to 4e.Please don't slander BECMI trying to bait people in your shit game.
>>93156105Don't.
>>93141547It's genuinely great, I loved it back when I was playing it in person. Trying to set it up online has been tricky in my recent experience. Roll20 character sheet sucks, Foundry has some quirks that make it tricky, and my players saw all the different character options and got overwhelmed.
>>93157978Better break the game with OP spells at 7 and completely derail the system through their abuse by 15 compared to 4es unplayable at all levels without DM straight up designing a new game.
>>93144207You could legit make a decent 4e sim in fucking RPGMaker
>>93161715Prove it
>>93161715Bro you couldn't even make this basic ass level 1 theme power work in rpgmaker.
>>93161795I see absolutely nothing about this a videogame cannot replicate.Not even that guy, just confused.
>>93151166>B/X and BECMI were pretty much focused on hexcrawls and dungeon diving.This isspartially false. B/X was, high level BECMI was quite epic.This place is full of posers.
>>93149204late 3.5 was probably more cancerous than 4e because was written by clueless freelancers and by clueless 4e designers.
>>93161848Clearly you don't know anything about rpg maker then.
>>93161795The D20 packs for MV, ACE and even basic boomer RPGmaker already did way more than that.And even if you dont want to, after setting up either R or M .random (after defining floor and roof as 1 and 20), simply add the trigger buff modifier field as 1 with variance on buff active field as 1+Math.randomInt(5)+0.Because you have only upgrades at level 11 and 21 to worry about with flat level modifier, items are linear benefits with active abilities and outside of artifact conc triggers no passives that go beyond +5/-5 to resist x/y/z along with for class features, powers and feats you dont have to worry about: any map modifying effects, enemy subtags for specific effects, height as it RAW doesnt exist for most traps and hazards (and worse even flying doesnt help against them as they are square entry attacks, not actual environment effects) and even lingering effects are actually instant debuffs or at most last 1 round, its easier to port to RPG maker than any other edition with the only worry being at most a few item concord triggers.
>>93149204Ah, so this is a bizzaro realmers view, interesting how it has nothing to do with reality.
>>93161983Things like basic healing spells also upgrade at 6/16/26.
>>931415474e wins D&D, hands down, for the absolute best handling of races in the entre system. Beefy mechanical basis with the option to lean into how much your Race shapes your character as little or as much as you prefer, and chunky lore.My proof?4e Pixie: 4 pages of lore>Creation Myth>Physical Qualities>Attitudes & Beliefs>Communities>Adventurers>Roleplaying Tips5e Pixie:>The Feywild is home to many fantastic peoples, including fairies. Fairies are a wee folk, but not nearly as much so as their pixie and sprite friends. The first fairies spoke Elvish, Goblin, or Sylvan, and encounters with human visitors prompted many of them to learn Common as well.>Infused with the magic of the Feywild, most fairies look like Small elves with insectile wings, but each fairy has a special physical characteristic that sets the fairy apart.>Four D6 personality trait tables>That is literally it, this is the entirety of 5e's Fairy fluff material right here in this one fucking shitpost.
>>93162431Jesus Christ what an horrible picture.4e truly initiated this shitty fag trend in D&D art. Who in his right mind would post that to SUPPORT 4e?In any case, 4e had dissociated mechanics that hampered roleplaying. Is pointless to brag about lore because the game was working actively against your immersion.
>>93162463>Three men who are CLEARLY strong, powerful men.>Even the shaman is jacked.>Goliath barbarian ready to fuck some shit.>Half-orc woman actually looks like a half-orc.>Only one even remotely sexually ambiguous character, and it's the gnome sorcerer who is probably supposed to be a dude.>Adventuring party actually standing ready to fight off some horrible monster that is just off-screen.So, out of curiosity, how many times WERE you dropped on the head as a baby, anon?
>>93162771You probably have autism because that literal description sounded great in your head.Tone and style are thing, pleb-kun. And you have zero style while being tone-deaf.But I mean, if you had taste you wouldn't be a 4rrie I guess.
>>93162868Just say 4rries already so that you get put on the filter you sped.
>>93158142Yeah, it was an awkward moment when he declared himself the King of Catalan and began ordering the expulsion of the Zoroastrians.
>>93160745>The game lasted for 20 yearsHow did 20 years passed between 2000 and 2008? Or 2003 in 3.5's case.
>>93162896Anon, you have shit taste in art and RPGs.Please cease.I also noticed you didn't even address how 4e dissociated mechanics hamper roleplaying because clearly you have no points there, you can only give up.
>>93150801Mostly because it was adopted by people who make money off re-selling "answers" already answered by AD&D.
>>93162771>who is probably supposed to be a dudeShe clearly has tits.
>>93163101Something something the grogs who meet at that one guy's house still count but no one else's home game of bunnies and burrows or whatever do.
>>93162771The gnome has tits bro.
>>93162463The dissociated mechanics actually helped roleplaying because it minimized confusion between fluff, RAI, and RAW. It was a godsend and the reason it's the only D&D edition where I've had multiple campaigns go from level 1 to level max.
>>93163424This is even more cope anon.You did it DESPITE the dissociated mechanics but that's irrelevant. You can RP heroquest if you want.
>>93162771This art is horrible, anon.
>>93162463>dissociated mechanicshell yeah lets put this into the filter
>>93161869As opposed to, what, clueless 3.0 designers who made entire books with worse math than 4E is claimed to have? Clueless early 3.5 designers who didn't understand their own game?
>>93141547Its pretty good, although I feel like making maps is always the biggest pain in the ass for running it. I should just pirate a ton of those ones people put up on drivethrurpg next time I go for it.
>>93162463This is fine. I don't play 4e, or DnD, at all if I want anything more than light roleplay. If I want a game that facilitates roleplay with mechanics, I'd never think of touching DnD.4e is for tactical combat autism and dungeon crawling. You can easily homebrew in OSR mechanics for dungeon procedures and drain people's surges if they don't rest, and light mechanics are already in and robust.
>>93161983>>93161795And now do it without pausing the game to open a box after every single skill roll anyone does.Which is the actual point.
>>93158142he also lists a whole bunch of other shit.What youre saying is incredibly uncharitable."So we like how Video games now force teamwork which is something current DnD is lacking" does not mean "Its literally an MMO with a Hotbar"
>>93151765holy bait
>>93150801very easy to run, very fast, not too many rules.It does what it sets out to do realy well and anything beyond that you can probably wing
>>93150884i like the DMG for having stuff for Improvised Actions aswell as more guidelines for giving out loot.The only thing i never think worked out well are the encounter XP guidelines becuase if your players charop only a little bit theyll probably outstrip these very quickly unless you are REALY hard on them resting and giving them 6+ encoutners per rest
>>93151281>>93151346Heres an image from a past session of my campaign of almost 6 years.What now?I post about my campaign all the time but turns out the minutae of mechanics isnt that interresting to shitpost about rather than my players doing retarded shit or how i set up custom rules for Dungeon crawling
>>93169461Literally every edition breaks down if you let the players have free long rests whenever they want.
>>93141547I *want* to like 4e, but what keeps me from embracing it is actually fairly petty:I don't like how powers are formatted. For some reason, my stupid brain refuses to process the way they arrange and denote things, like my eye refuses to follow it. It's something I've never encountered anywhere else and it frustrates me to no end.
I am normally a pf2e player but ive gotten the offline character builder and the compendium and through foundry ive almost made keep on the shadowfell for my players, just missing the last floor. Tell me are my players in for a good time with that adventure?
>>93172433Its pretty mediocre honestly. The numbers also use the old math, so you'll need to update them if you haven't and want the enemies to do literally any damage.
>>93172433>keep on the shadowfellwhyits awfull
>>93172433You should avoid anything with mearls' name on it.
>>93172584There is an automated feature on foundry that will update the monsters for me to the MM3 so thats taken care of thabkfully.
>>93172639>>93172681I chose it really because others said it was not a bad place to start and it had some okay maps to port into foundry,but all the wotc modules were trash but do either of you anons have any reccomendations on what to do next?
>>93142101They're liquidating the dnd people at WoTC, they invested to much into 5e and didn't earn enough to show for it, that's why they're so focused on making sure the new edition is backwards compatible with it. If 5.5 flops Hasbro is going to axe it.
>>931607454e lasted twice as long as 3e lol
>>93141547i still think 3.5 was probably peak in terms of both overall design and flavor, but 4th was pretty great as well. definitely FAR more gameified, but we're playing a tabletop game so thats not nessecarily automatically a bad thing. my group played it for probably 5 or 6 years, it did a great job of scaling from local goblin infestations and vampire crypts all the way up to demigods battling angels and demons and city sized elementals. probably the biggest downside in my opinion was that the math got a bit big, which made the combat cumbersome as it just increased the mental load for calculating attacks and damage. not by much, but every little bit counts when your group takes half an hour to complete one round of combat between the one guy who's bad at math, the one guy who umms and ahhhs over what action to use for 5 minutes, the one guy who was on his phone the whole time and has to be recapped on what was going on, the guy who's going to try to pull off some goofy narrative rope grappling manuever there are absolutely no rules for, etc. it was really sad going from 3.5 and 4th to the half baked low effort slop that was 5th edition. i mean, how many new actual classes have they added in nearly a decade of 5th edition? 1? maybe 2? the subclasses are featureless shit that barely takes up half a page most of the time, even the classes themselves are only 2 or 3 pages, there are maybe 3 tables of feats in the whole game. god, 5th was such a dissapointment. kept alive purely by e-celeb tv channels
>>93172727You should do Madness at Gardmore Abbey instead. Its easily the best low level 4e adventure.
>>93172727Its literally the worst adventure for 4e, it was written by mearls for one thing and also at a time when realy they hadnt grasped 4e encoutner design at all.A bunch of the unique monsters in it are ported straight from 3.5 and are thus terriblein 4e>>93172980Much better suggestion here
>>93172737This. D&D has been on effective life support since the mid 90s. WotC has managed to carry it far longer than anyone at Hasbro has thought possible, but Hasbro as a company seeks only infinite profits at all else and if 5.5 doesn't sell gangbusters then either they will push a whole new edition or "shelve" it, rolling out the core books in print format maybe once every 4-5 years to keep their hold on the IP but provide it no active support whatsoever.
>>93172433Keep on the Shadowfell has a decent enough premise but you will want to rework it a fair bit. There are plenty of guides online that have already done the heavy lifting for you at least so just google it and pick what you wanna.
>>93175016>or "shelve" it, rolling out the core books in print format maybe once every 4-5 years to keep their hold on the IP but provide it no active support whatsoever.Nah. There will always be at least a trickle of D&D and D&D accessories coming out just to satisfy the trickle of new consumers (every year there's a new crop of 12 year-olds asking for the books and dice and minis and whatnot) but even if if 5.5 eats shit they're going to retain their 5e nuthuggers while moving towards a more multimedia model - cartoons, comics and novels, licensed games, maybe another movie, etc.
>>93141547I really like 4e, but it feels like a relic of a distant age. I have a hard time imagining anyone in my 5e group enjoying 4e's tactical combat.I just don't feel like the average 5e group pays that much attention to or even wants to have to think about positioning. I feel like 3.5 supports the 5e playstyle even better.
>>93141547Absolutely agreed.
>>931727543e, 2000-ongoing. Even if you dont count by play and supported material still being released, 2000-2008.4e, 2008-2014What crack are you on about? Even BECMI lasted longer than 4e by living up through halfway to 2e reprints.
>>93141547It really is peak but it drives its haters into some sort of insane frothing rage where they just spout 16 year old incorrect memes and act like it murdered their parents.>>93172433If you want a good level 1 adventure do The Slaying Stone. Lead that into Reavers of Harkenwold and then into Madness at Gardmore Abbey and you have a nice level 1 through 8ish campaign. I feel like that might be a good stopping point since, to me at least, level 10+ characters end up really bloated.
>>93163101AD&D to 3e are all still getting full 3rd party releases and had WOTC partnered content among it up to end of 2022.4e didnt get even a single pdf let alone book outside of the gamma world 7th ed crossover promo trading card pack aka lootbox art prints.
>>93182246Or if we dont live in your delusion and look at reality we see that the people which did give it a try thus actually played it for more than a homebrew session of CYOA LARP and have enough braincells for a IQ in 3 digits saw the shit math, 2 classes with 8+skins and no value in releases for what it was.
>>93165248>hell yeah lets put this into the filterThat's because there is literally no counter.Is true and cannot be argued against.
>>93163101>>931633683e is still supported and continued with PF1e.4e was DOA.the last years should not even count, it was a desert.
>>93182306The last year saw no outright physical support, but the online articles continued and there were two adventures published that had rules for running them in multiple editions, 4e included. Not sure why you have to lie anon. And even tben, 4e had more actual splats in 4 years than 5e got in its 10 years.
>>93182332>And even tben, 4e had more actual splats in 4 years than 5e got in its 10 years.This is not the brag you think it is anon.4e was an utter failure, is time to accept it.
>>93182332It had more content before Essentials than 5E has now.
>>93182246I will go ahead a do this after we complete KoTS. Building on what yoy suggested how does this look as a 1-11 campain?HS1: The Slaying Stone (1st) Reavers of Harkenwold (DM's Kit, 2nd-3rd) Cair of the Winter King (Monster Vault, 4th) HS2: Orcs of Stonefang Pass (5th) Madness at Gardmore Abbey (6th-1 1th)
>>93182669This. 5e always has felt stale and it took ages to get things other than items and spells. You play it for a year and you basically see everything. 4e at least had constant splats coming out giving new powers, feats, races, classes, backgrounds, themes, rituals and more.
>>93183015Toss in one or two adventures from Dungeon Delve and you look good.
>>93172737I cannot think of a bigger waste of money than a $100mil D&D movie.What were they smoking?
>>93183223The brand was starting to slow its growth, they needed to go big and it ALMOST worked. I think the movie basically broke even right? But it released at a time a good chunk of the fanbase was either pissed at WotC or were too deep into other movie franchises to care. I'm also sure some people were still scared of what it could have been based on the last few D&D live action movies.
>>93183258Many were ambivalent.Just before the movie came out, articles like this one popped.https://www.cbr.com/dnd-movie-emasculates-leading-men-not-woke/You don't even need to click, just read the link. Attention dived. Many didn't go.I myself watched it months later after my GF was curious about it. we enjoyed it, and the only "Sue" was a Stu, intentionally - the paladin.Hasbro should seriously sue. This article was EVERYWHERE due to the cultural war.
>>93145405very nice
>>93183258>I think the movie basically broke even right?By rules of thumb, it lost $50-100mil.
>>93183031I will say 4e's initial release rate was way too fast. During the like 2008-2010 era there was some new book every like 6 weeks. After speeding out the 3 PHBs so people stopped crying bitch tears about lack of Monk and Druid and Half Orc and Gnome they really should have slowed their roll since no one was buying everything and it was burning people out. They should have sent more stuff out to DDI well before actual print so those who were thirsty for options could have them but not drown stores in books. Would have also driven more people to DDI if it offered mechanical stuff months early.
>>93184047The rule was they wanted a core book out every few months (PHBs, DMGs, and MMs) because anything labelled "a core rulebook) sells many times more than any other book. Had they slowed the release and actually worked some 3rd parties for the VTT (and fight to get the video game license to better companies) I think 4e would have been far more accepted. But rushing out the books during a time when many people were just trying to keep their jobs and homes due to the Great Recession, it wasn't a good time. Hell, release it a year later even and it would have been better received as the economy began to just stabilize slightly.
>>93184108So pretty much the same reason GW shits out new editions every couple years whether or not the rules actually need an update?
>>93186051Money? Yes.
>>93183294>Hasbro should seriously sue. This article was EVERYWHERE due to the cultural war.Cast needs to be kept on a leash to stop them from saying retarded shit, because>We also love emasculating leading menWas enough for people to run with; it was game fucking over the moment they said this.
>>93142805>I never understood why newer editions must overwrite all D&D.>PicrelThat not forgotten realm orc anonRelax
