A thread for the discussion of 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, including their iconic modules and campaign settings.
Are there any good discovery or information = XP systems?Objective and without negotiation.I don't want to do quest rewards or milestone.
>>931461573d6DTL use an XP for "feats of exploration" system, sounds like just what you might be interested in:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10s5dgqaDLLwCBe61J0_gZ8QJQGQtFheeBNqeY3M-1Rk/edit?gid=0#gid=0
>>93146463Thank you for the suggestion,it's a good one. I've looked into it.I saw some people ended up dying because they:"just needed that 5th room to get the bonus XP"
>>93146487Weird incentives are the trouble with this kind of intangible XP source.
>>93146157You can always create your own, anon. It will be difficult at first because it's hard to find a number that isn't too high or too low to award players, but generally you should ask the following questions:>How many discoveries, on average, should a character make to go up in level?If you think 10 is a reasonable number, award 200 XP per discovery (always use Fighter as the benchmark). You may increase this based on level, in fact i recommend you do. However, make sure the XP awarded doesn't increase, proportionally, as much as level requirements. Otherwise it'll take as many discoveries to get to level 2 as to get to level 10 (i assume you don't want that to be the case)>Should discoveries give different XP values based on their type/importance/difficulty?If yes (and following the above example), award 100 XP for an easy discovery, 200 XP for a moderate one, and 400 XP for a hard one. You may tweak these proportions as you wish, perhaps you think 1/2/4 is not the right proportion, perhaps you think there should be another tier for trivial and heroic discoveries and so on.And always assume you will NOT get it right the first time. It's fine, you can tweak it as you go.
>>93146623Thank you Anon, a very nice answer.
How do you guys feel about halving the weight of armor (for the purpose of the determining encumbrance) while it is equipped? It is a house rule i always use and a good way to fix the unrealistic armor weights in AD&D, as well as allowing fighters without exceptional STR to actually carry stuff.
>>93148232Seems reasonable. The weight of armor is generally going to be distributed across the body IRL, so it wouldn't feel as heavy as the same armor put into a bag. In the case of full plate, it would use a harness or something to spread the weight across different points of contact. In the case of maille, a belt would be used so the weight isn't hanging off your shoulders.
>>93148232I think its fine. The weights are almost 2x what they should be. Though I will say, carrying a lot of stuff while wearing an extra 35 lbs is very difficult, even when its well distributed. Thats just a little more than the weight of my pack while backpacking, and you really feel every additional pound at that point. If I'm lugging around an additional 15 lbs after that, it's going to severely fatigue me after even just a couple days of hiking around mountains. So it should make sense that they can carry less
>>93148610Average plate armor was 50lbs rounded. That's 500 coins of weight.
>>93148232>How do you guys feel about halving the weight of armorGet magic armor which already is like that (source: DMG), even if you have to shank the city guard sub-commander for it and pry it off his corpse.Leave your store-bought trash armor at home before you go on a REAL adventure in the wilderness.That way the otherwise "uninteresting" options like Ringmail+1 or Scale+1 make more sense in your own games.
Bump
How do you interpret % chance in lair? I reckon there are about five or so common methods for using the stat, kind of silly how ambiguous it is when it seems so vital to the placement of treasure.
>>93145581What was area #19? I asked Kuntz and he feigned ignorance.
>>93145581>>93156866Forgot image
>>93156676>How do you interpret % chance in lair? I start by reading the fucking book.
>>93159479Cute, now explain how to use it during play.
>>93160084NTA, when you roll a wilderness encounter, you roll a percentage die vs that number to see if it's their lair, just like it says to do in the DMG. It's like this is hard to understand, if you "read the fucking book" as he said.
>>93160107Where in that do you see anything about wilderness encounters.
>>93160110>WhereIn the DMG, where it repeatedly says lairs are found in the wilderness. You have read the DMG, right?
What is your favorite AD&D campaign setting? For me, it's a draw between Greyhawk and Planescape. Greyhawk because of the Gygaxian feel and how open it is for DM customisation. Planescape because i love planar play and DiTerlizzi art.Ravenloft is also good but it just feels too cheesy at times. Forgotten Realms is too high magic and "set in stone" for my tastes.
>>93160153Where? The closest to what you're talking about is the generation of random treasure maps. And I suppose monsters don't ever domicile and store their treasure in a dungeon... How about you give an example of your personal procedure for using % chance in lair, hm?
>>93162346you either do it during play or during prep if you're populating using the random system. The % is the number you roll a d100 against. roll <= % means the monster is in its lair.you designate the monsters lair based on the fiction.page 5 of the MM defines % in Lair. it is what >>93159479 posted. AD&D 1 leaves a lot to the GM to do as they please.are you looking for a more prescriptive procedure?
>>93161663>i love planar play and DiTerlizzi artPlanescape was a mistake.
>>93166375Interesting, why do you think so?
>>93166423ever DM'd it?
>>93166537Yes, and it was no more difficult than running any other setting, what are you on about? Did you have any particular trouble running it?
>>93166803ntaA lot of people don’t like that Planescape has a significant thematic shift from the main premise of D&D: Kill shit, get rich, rule your lands.There’s still plenty of room for exploration, and wonder, and all that business but it’s hard to be a shiftless freebooter in Planescape because there is always a bigger fish in your pond and there are a lot of things restricting your movement beyond just the gold to buy a horse and the will to ride it.I think what it boils down to is Planescape tends to be a Big Picture setting which requires a fair amount of narrative intervention and player buy-in. I like Planescape and I still use elements of it but I wouldn’t run it as 2e setting out of the box. I think it’s great material to dip into and has lots of cool stuff but as a D&D setting…. it’s just not what I want from D&D. I usually play Planescape with another system.
>>93145581unpopular AD&D takes:14 CHA should be enough to make Paladin
Has anyone ever played a Half-Orc?Grogs on places like Dragonsfoot/KnK and Grongardia seem to have an apoplexy at the idea.Though never for any solid reason.
>>93161663Spelljammer for me. I can run a game in any style I want, and asteroids can be self contained scenarios, mini wilderness crawls or even dungeons.>>93166375Your conception was a mistake. Planescape is a masterpiece. There's a big difference.
>>93168185Half Orcs were dropped from 2nd Edition because Gygax emphasised in 1st Edition that they were all rape babies. That didn't gel with the family friendly image they tried to put out. Maybe the content creators you mentioned can't get past that?I always thought "all of then are rape babies" was a fucking stupid thing, anyway. Humans in D&D would fuck a water elemental if they thought it would wriggle.
>>93167485Why? Why should a class designed to be the rarest of the rare, representing an ideal to which few can aspire, have a prereq lower than a druid (15 Cha) that makes them more common than rangers and often druids?You're also going to have to define where Cha falls in order of stats for rolling by the UA Method V because rolling 9d6 trying to hit a target of 14+ is a joke. It's roughly 89% for >= 14 vs 40% >= 17 so you've m0re than doubled the chance for a paladin.Afaict the main reason for high prereqs is to filter out classes. If you want to allow more paladins it's fine but why change the prereq, why not just let players reroll characters? If you're not using UA prereqs AD&D Method I, 4d6 rearrange to taste, should allow a paladin better than 25% of the time. You triple that value with a Cha prereq of 14 but that's not that much of a difference in expected number of rolls.
>>93166122I was just curious how people interpret it, not baiting or whatever. Like I said, over the years I have seen roughly five broad categories. My favorite are the insane people that take it as literally as possible and roll whenever a monster is encountered. Personally I take it the other literal way and decide where monster lairs are when I've stocked the dungeon/hex and roll when characters are in the lair to see if the monster is there guarding its treasure. It's just funny to me that it's an important enough rule to appear on every monster's stat block but it's not really described in a "gameable" way. Part of the charm hey.
>>93168185I think it's because Half-Orcs are hated/killed on sight in most settings, which can disrupt play quite a bit. They also have a natural tendency towards evil because of their orcish blood, and many DMs dislike evil PCs. I can't find any other reason to be against playing one.
>>93174619More TD art because why not
>>93168185Half-Orcs are actually kinda trash. Low level limits surpisingly low stat limits and max level 10 as Fighters Cleric lv fucking 4 and Trashssasin unlimited. Thats even before all the lore as always evil rapebabies kinda making people shrug and play something else
>>93170313Paladin would still needSTR 12, INT 9, WIS13, CON 9, CHA 14just to qualify>UA Method V just, noThe reason why a lower CHA entryway is, simply, a paladin who doesn't have good physical stats (STR, primarily) will struggle to be an effective PC b/c he's still a fighter-type and due to LG alignment and almost certain leadership role, he has to be an *effective* fighter. i.e. you can qualify for paladin with a 12 STR, 9 CON, and dump-stat DEX. But you will die early. I'm good with having those soft stats have prerequisites, but lowering CH to 14 just might let you put a fairly-rolled 17 or 18 into STR where paladin will need it, instead of CHA where it goes to waste.You don't have to like it - I just like AD&D paladins and want them playable (they still aren't common).
>>93168185The reason is because half-orcs are great villains, are based on Tolkien's uruk-hai, a tougher version of orcs. Nothing is more cringe in fantasy than moral relativism in monsters.
>>93168981Planescape humanized demons, devils, angels and deities, to the silly and boring detriment of 2d ed. overall.But I'm game - what Planescape product should I read to change my mind?
>>93174619Arent half-orcs in the dmg like 10% of the population in most big cities? Even if they live in the ghettos or in the underground severs, that's a lot if they are killed on sight.
>>93180321>A Note About Pronouns (page 9 of AD&D 2e Revised Player's Handbook)The male pronoun (he, him, his) is used exclusively throughout the AD&D game rules. We hope this won’t be construed by anyone to be an attempt to exclude females from the game or imply their exclusion. Centuries of use have neutered the male pronoun. In written material it is clear, concise, and familiar. Nothing else is.
>>93181085Speaking of 2e rulebooks, i've found something...interesting in the DMG, it's a section called "The Encounter is Too Difficult" (page 141, revised):>The DM has accidentally pitted his player characters against a group of creatures too powerful for them, so much so that the player characters are doomed. To fix things, the DM can have the monsters flee in inexplicable panic; secretly lower their hit points; allow the player characters to hit or inflict more damage than they really should; have the monsters miss on attacks when they actually hit; have the creatures make grievous mistakes in strategy (like ignoring the thief moving in to strike from behind)Is this the first time fudging was officially mentioned as a "solution" for DMs in D&D? 2e is my favorite edition but i can't deny a lot of bad trends started with it
>>93180321Is that why they don't have to be particularly strong?
>>931822932e gave some bad advice to DMs. We live with the consequences even today.
>>93182643>2e gave some bad advice to DMs.Understatement of the decade.
>>93180321I don't think Roland was a woman, anon.Nor was Holger Danske.
>>93180321I'm fairly sure knights of Charlemagne were all men.
>>93184610>Joan of Arc was a PaladinThis thread is great for cretin containment, thanks for creating it.
>>93184753>>93184781I think this was clear from the start, "D&D paladin IRL", the irl definition of paladin was never relevant to the discussion. The problem is that she isn't actually the most famous holy warrior in real world history, when you talk about 'real world paladins' you're comparing her to Saladin and Charlemagne and Mohammed and all the kings in the Bible.
>>93184718>What does a woke Netflix show have to do with the present discussion?You're rewriting herstory to make a feminist point, dudette.>>93184781>She was a crusader. A holy knight.Jesus Christ what a fucking idiot you are. She was in the Hundred Years' War, not in the crusades, and she was never knighted.In fact, Joan of Arc never fought once. All she did was foment the troops. If anything, you could argue that she was a WotC Bard. Not that I expect a 2etard to be able to tell the difference.Wanna know what a Paladin is? The Knights of the Round Table were Paladins. Picrel.
>>93184833NTA but what the hell is a Cavalier supposed to be then?
>>93184872>what the hell is a Cavalier supposed to be then?Bullshit to sell additional books, like a good chunk of the stuff in UA. The picture is from several years before the UA published, when AD&D was still good.
>>93184968You have extremely deep running autism. A paladin is just a more martially oriented cleric. They have nothing to do with any specific historical figures.
>>93184986>They have nothing to do with any specific historical figures.Indeed, go tell that to Joan-of-Arc-fag. Like was shown above, they are related to mythological figures like King Arthur, Galahad, Lancelot, Theseus, and Perseus. Additional picrel.
>>93184986>A paladin is just a more martially oriented clericThey are warriors, not priests. Yes in 2e. In AD&D and OD&D, they are a variant fighter option.>They have nothing to do with any specific historical figures.Gygax specifically chose the name because his main inspiration for the class were the peers of Charlemagne.
>>93184968>>what the hell is a Cavalier supposed to be then?>Bullshit to sell additional books,This MF'er don't miss...
>>93184833>>93185023>>93185039Paladinbro(s), for your efforts, treat yourself to this kinohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X_oDUvHNE0
>>93182938Nothing grinds my fears as much as when I go back and read Zeb's section on handing out experience points. It's absolutely atrocious.
>>93185538Zeb Cook is my Bargle.
What are some improvements you make on AD&D 2e? I added encumbrance dice and removed hit points and we use Mork Borg to generate characters.
>>93185656>I added encumbrance dice and removed hit points and we use Mork Borg to generate characters.D&D for people who hate D&D
>>93185656I have sold the 2e manuals that were given to me as gifts and used the money to buy real AD&D books. 100% improved.
>>93145581What's the best non-Gygax AD&D module? My vote is pic rel., which is still to this day the single most fun module I've either played in or DM'd.
>>93161663Birthright and it's not close.
>>93185991This or Tamoachan. I lost a character to White Plume Mountain, a half-orc ass cleric. Fucked around and found out in the giant zoo room.
>>93184833King Arthur absolutely mogged by Galahad and lancelot. No wonder his wife left him!
>>93184833The lancelot entry says that he lost his paladin status after he was tricked into loving Elaine (of Corbenic). The rules say "knowingly perform" a chaotic act and "knowingly and willingly" perform an evil act causes a fall. Having sex is, contrary to headcanon, not something that ends D&D paladinhood.Elaine put on a ring belonging to Guinevere so he thought he was screwing the queen consort. Modern interpreters call that Elaine raping Lancelot but I don't think people at the time had any concept that a woman could sexually assault a man. Fornication is contrary to Christian ideals but noblemen, not so much women, did it routinely so even by standards of the time it was fornicating chaotic, ie contrary to law?Lancelot wilfully committed adultery with the queen. That was an act of high treason. He should immediately and irrevocably lose his paladin status when he did that but did he commit a chaotic or an evil act or both or neither by fucking Elaine thinking he was fucking Guinevere?
>>93186232I jumped on that magic ring so fast - got me so good I remember the feeling to this day. A perfect module for me and my friends' age and maturity level at the time.
>>93186309>>93186287I never honestly thought TSR did very well with these class/stats descriptions. Arthur the Bard? Lancelot a paladin? But I never read all the source material so what do I know (except Boorman's Excalibur'?)
Does anyone have a screen or a collection of tables for 1e? I'm going to be running a game for the first time and the TSR screen isn't really laid out how I want it...
>>93184833Why did they give King Arthur 18s or better in everything but dexterity?
>>93185991L1 Secret of Bone Hill hands downDetailed sandbox with three dungeons and a shitload of wilderness exploration. And like KotB you get the best loot out of the good guy castle. If you dare.
>>93186587Check out Dragonsfoot's downloads. They have a bunch of different DM screens with tons of information on them so you can DIY your own.
If anybody is interested, here is a recombined traditional D&D thread, without the gatekeeping of /osrg/. I think these separate edition threads will ultimately falter on their own and hope that we can work together again.>>93187986>>93187986>>93187986
>>93146157You can set flat "achievement" bonuses, like giving 50 XP for finding something that wasn't on any map, or establishing good relations with a faction.Feels gamey, but it helps in quickly approximating XP gibs.
>>93184833>trying to apply a D&D class to a real person rewriting history.>all I understand about paladins is being able to hit stuff.
