solitary beep boop editionPrevious thread:>>93158441>New to The Horus Heresy? Here’s Everything You’ll Need to Get Startedhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/05/30/new-to-the-horus-heresy-heres-everything-youll-need-to-get-started/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/#the-horus-heresyhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/#the-horus-heresy>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8 https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS >30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics>Fluff(visions and BL)/folder/FepmWCBL#mVFzgCLouF_RDkRX9LgNeg/folder/Mm8nlDLR#zBOQhHGcCacWYRSdK7f4oQ>HH1 Black Books/folder/s9xQ3CiA#9a594y1utfRGxKLxiIy2aQ/folder/QkpUCIhK>HH2 Rules and Supplements/folder/7jYhnbzT#CHimCvMfmF86Gwoc7nh4ZA『Adeptus Titanicus』>Rules and supplements/folder/s9xQ3CiA#9a594y1utfRGxKLxiIy2aQ/folder/p5YjXaLL>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>homemade missions:https://clawsandfists.blogspot.com/2019/09/matched-play-missions-for-adeptus.html>Thread question:What are some wargear changes you want to see that aren't significant but should still be canon?
>>93176220>hat are some wargear changes you want to see that aren't significant but should still be canon?Canon? i mean im not maybe for Tsons let them take asphyx for combi bolters?Balance? Remove brutal off of THRemove Sunder from LCMake Small Blast templates that are not barrage not scatter, or only scatter D6Give Breaching 6+ but only make it go to AP 3 on all chain weaponsuhhhhhhh Plasma AP3 base, breaching 4+mmmmmm let me think...
Wednesday night and time again for an OC heresy art dump to mark another week of classes on the books>Part 25: Terror on the Whisperheads Edition
>>93176294
>>93176301
>>93176312
>>93176322Last pic
>>93176220>/folder/FepmWCBL#mVFzgCLouF_RDkRX9LgNeg>/folder/s9xQ3CiA#9a594y1utfRGxKLxiIy2aQ/folder/QkpUCIhK>/folder/7jYhnbzT#CHimCvMfmF86Gwoc7nh4ZAThese don't work. Can somebody fix that?
>>93176334Based.And also really high quality I was expecting a joke of some sort.
kinda wish SoS got more shit before mechanicum did
Kinda wish the cunts bitching about SoS would post WIP
>>93176248Nah. As in, let chain weapons be mostly AP nothing. It is okay for a weapon to have no useful AP; marine armour is supposed to make them hardyBut let Plasma be full AP2. But no Rending.Except Phased Plasma: AP3, Breaching 5+, but no Gets Hot
Samussy.
>>93176334Holy kino
>>93176220I want Forge Lords and Mortifactors to be able to get the same wargear options as techmarinesI want terminator forge lords to be able to replace their combi bolter with a heavy flamer or reaper autocannonI want terminator forge lords to be able to replace their machinator array with a conversion beamerI want machinator arrays to give firing protocols (2)Also let veterans take plasma cannons and volkite culverins.
>>93176294>>93176301>>93176312>>93176322>>93176334AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE SAVE ME LOKEN-MAN
>>93176334>Samus is here?
Honestly I kind of want to make a narrative campaign system like the old path to glory or necromunda stuff, focusing on a couple of sergeants in a zone mortalis campaign. Ive got a theme and win condition in mind, a bunch of astartes from the dropsite massacre, with the loyalists trying to get parts for a spaceworthy corvette, while the traitors are delving into the hangar to try and find where the loyalists are hiding and kill them all, but I can't really think of anything befitting a progression system: I want to have characters get injuries, but unlike necromunda it doesn't really make a ton of sense for them to get new skills and unlike path to glory they can't just get chaos boons. Any ideas?
>>93176621>But let Plasma be full AP2. But no Rending.No, this was the cause of plasma being the absolute go to in 1.0. The problem that TH have right now is the problem plasma had in 1.0.
>>93177090Are things the same, though? Now that Terminators and even Veterans are 2W. Now that there's no more Armoured Ceramite.Feels to me melta is finally on equal footing with plasma.But mostly, my gripe is the difference between fully AP2 plasma and those AP3 Breaching 4+ proposals is that it only benefits Terminators, who are the ones who actually fear plasma the least:It does nothing to protect power armoured marines from itIt does nothing to protect their wielders from Gets HotBasically the only thing it does is protect AV12 vehicles from explosions, which happens once every 36 hits, or every 54 shots.That's why I don't want the half measure that is AP2 Breaching 4. That is why, if plasma is to have any change, I support it should be to gain full AP2.Because then Phased Plasma can have its AP3 niche back.
So I'm making a contemptor with one fist. What should I put on it's gun arm and it's in-built wep? Thinking what would be at least ok on the tabletop, not necessarily waac loadout.
>>93177302>*That's why I don't want the half measure that is AP3 Breaching 4
>>93177327Autocannon and power fist with Plasma blaster, effective but not WAAC
Rate the list Legion: Death Guard Rite of War: Pride of the Legion Primary Detachment - 3000HQ: Cataphractii Praetor, Paragon Blade, Combi-Melta, Grenade Harness - 165Ex: Cataphractii Command Squad, 5x Thunder Hammer, 4x Combi-Bolter, Legion Standard - 270DT: Land Raider Proteus, 2x Sponson Gravis Lascannon, Hull Twin Heavy Bolter - 220HQ: Cataphractii Consul, Warmonger, Power Fist, Combi-Volkite - 145HQ: Cataphractii Consul, Primus Medicae, Chainfist, Needle Pistol, Narthecium - 150Troop: 10x Tartaros, 10x Power Fists, 10x Combi-Bolter - 375DT: Spartan, 2x Sponson Laser Destroyer, Hull Twin Heavy Bolter, Flare Shield - 400Troop: 10x Tartaros, 10x Power Fists, 10x Combi-Bolter - 375DT: Spartan, 2x Sponson Laser Destroyer, Hull Twin Heavy Bolter, Flare Shield - 400HS: 10x Grave Wardens, 5x Power Fists, 5x Chainfists, 10x Assault Grenade Launcher, 10x Death Cloud Projector - 500
My cataphractii came in. Gonna give the sergeant a thunder hammer because I have this bit left over, but for the rest I'm not sure. Maybe do 4 fists and 5 claws. 2 dudes are getting assault cannons.
>>93176334Oh SHIT I know that guy
>>93177327The Cheese build is melta gun, and gav gun in the fist. So do what you want with that.
>>93176334Too bad they overdid Alpharius showing up everywhere instead of Samus.
Are Rotor Cannons any good? They look cool.
>>93176220Is an Onager Dunecrawler an alright proxy for a Krios-Venator? Even from recasters they're bullshit expensive for a 175 pt model
>>93177786They are cool.
>>93176220Anyone know a site based recaster that isn't in the Black Legion Market that has the Praetor Tribune? I refuse to use those fuckers after they messed up my order 3 times in a row.
>>93177803There's a guy selling them on ebay
Ideas for charnabal weapons?
>>93177729>>93177382I ahve both AL and IF FW contemptors to build from before they just went to the body onyl versions I don't want to mess them up so I'm really trying to decide what arms to use with em that look cool but aren't also terrible.
>>93177893can't go wrong with an assault cannon
The Forgeworld painters were snorting crack to willingly work with Tamiya smoke but holy shit I get it now
>>93177855What army?
>>93178212Excuse the second photo I just love this scheme so much
>>93177090Plasma was barely used in HH 1.0, basically only plasma guns and the odd plasma blaster. People only bothered with plasmagun TSS because rule of cool, zero reason to actually use them when things like the sicaran arcus were better, cheaper, longer range, and harder to kill.
>>93177792Not even close. Onager is way smaller.
>>93177327Magnets. It’s probably the easiest kit to magnetise GW have ever made.Also use a Bolt Cannon and Plasma Blaster. It’ll be way less WAAC faggy than it could be and way more effective than your opponent will expect.
>>93178212>>93178214Colours used?
>>93178661The IH recipe from cult of paint, which is a simplified version of the old FW scheme.Start with a dark gunmetal gray, then zenithal on top with a 50:50 mix of the previous color and gold. Then, add a thinned purple (I used druchii violet) and a thinned green (I used ork flesh) in random spots to give the oily appearance. After that, consider suicide by layering Tamiya smoke to darken. Then use Iron Hands steel for the steel bits.
>>93177792I was gonna use one for a Krios, I'd say so yeah
>>93178706What does Tamiya smoke actually do? Can't you just use a dark wash?
What is the liklihood of the average Auxilia riflemen surviving from the start of the heresy all the way to the end? Tempted to write up a little story journal thing of a traitor riflemen going through the motions as a way to pass time on my work breaks
>>93179069One of the 2.0 cohort type is composed entirely of great crusade vets. The same could happen during the heresy I imagine but keep in mind that with the devastation to the infastructure manifacturing their equipment and the change of the army becoming the guard at that point you won't get auxilia regiments into the scouring staying the same.
He looks fat.
>>93179120He's wearing armour, how could you tell?
>>93179167Physiognomy.
>>93179177Someone needs to draw some silly Primarch looksmaxxing memes. After all, Sanguinius was mewing his entire life whilst Dorn was bonemashing.
plastic arquitor
What would you all think about giving krak ML rending (5+) or outright Ap2?It feels like their current stats make them incredibly pointless compared to las cannons. With less S and no special rules for the same range and number of shots when both of them are supposed to be anti tank weapons...At least with the same AP you you could argue it's worse S and doesn't have sunder but it's more versatile because of the other missile types, even if no one ever uses them
>>93179668Missile launchers are supposed to be a cheaper replacement for Lascannons that are also more versatile. The meta's skewing so far towards AP2 that most gear is getting fucked up, but that's a slightly different problem. It'd probably be fine but you'd have to raise the cost of ML's to compensate.
>>93179024Tamiya smoke is a highly transparent slightly brownish grey, intended for use doing smoke effects on scale models (thus the name), and also used to stain clear parts without losing the transparency. The reason the recipe anon is following uses it is because it still allows the metallic and green/black tones underneath to show through, so you end up with a really complex oily metallic black. The downside is that you need to apply a shitload of coats to get that colour because it's pretty subtle. The reason you use the Tamiya is that it's genuinely see-through, while most alternatives like washes or contrast contain opaque black pigments which will obscure everything underneath.
>>93179668Lascannons are the drastic outlier and should be brought back into line. Missiles are fine.
>>93179668Nah, missile launchers are fine as they are, very point efficient at killing vehicles with AV below 14 whilst also cleaning up units in power armour and light infantry with frag missiles. At worst they maybe could use a slight reduction in point cost.Missile launchers aren't suppose to be lascannons but cheaper, the targets of each are completely different.Handing out AP 2 will just lead to the same disaster that was 7th edition. Lascannons should be brought down a bit instead, starting with removing sunder. And reduce the armour save of all dreadnoughts that aren't leviathans to a 3+
>>93179668they could give them ignores cover or possibly not needing LoS.
>>93179668Krak is left in the dirt a bit since competing weapons got all sorts of special rules tacked on, like Sunder on lascannons, TL on multi-melta, and Rending on autocannons. They are still a pretty useful multi-role weapons, but a jack of all trades is a master of none.
>>93179668As others said, Lascannons are broken due to Sunder, ML’s are fine.Although I’d add optional upgrades for other Missiles. Plasma: +5pts, S7, AP4, BreachingMelta: +10pts, S8, AP2, ArmourbaneGrav: +10pts, S-, AP4, Concussive(1), Graviton Pulse, HaywireVortex (Veteran Squad and Armistos only): +25pts, S10, AP1, Small Blast, Instant Death, One Shot.
>>93180044>Melta: +10pts, S8, AP2, Armourbane>Grav: +10pts, S-, AP4, Concussive(1), Graviton Pulse, Haywirefuck no
>>93180044Sorry, meant to say:Plasma: +5pts, S7, AP4, Breaching(4+), Small Blast
>>93180096I mean that’s 15pts per model. I’d be ok bumping them up to +15pts, so 20pts total, if that’s too cheap for you.They’d be great but expensive, and no more durable than any other HSS. More options are always better, it’s just a matter of costing them fairly so they’re worth taking, but not broken.
>>93180123>More options are always betterno
>>93180129"No" is not an option.
>>93180044the only things S9 AP2 Sunder is statistically significant on are AV14if you're invoking Sunder on any lower AV than that you're just getting a reroll (which is fair if you're talking about AV11) or wasting your time (since rerolling an AV12 Glance to try and get that 4+ Pen is fun and all, but 1/3 of the time it ends with unfixable failure)even rerolling the Glance on AV14 is kind of a waste of your time since the chance is 2/3 that you'll simply waste the shot; it's worth using (and thus significant) on failed rolls vs AV14 but still far from guaranteedbut then you also want to add melta and 25 point vortex (!) missiles to the game, on an Armistos no less where they'd be so Master-crafted BS5 bullshit, and on Veterans who could move and fire them meaning for 285+ melee weapons you get a suicide vet squad guaranteed to fuck over whatever it's about to charge, then throw away its now useless missile launchers as ablative wounds for the Overwatchit's impressive that you've managed to make something so broken while complaining in the same post about a minor advantage commonly seen on a spammed unit, which is not the fault of the system but simply human nature
>>93180129>Doesn’t want more loadout optionsThat kind of Primaris talk ain’t welcome here mate.
>>93180355Police that hair, you fucking babyface inductii punk!
>>93180253A one shot Vortex missile, that you might have maybe 3 of at worst in 99% of games for 25/30pts each would be no worse than than the handful of Disintegrator weapons you can take in a list for fewer points.And Lascannons having Sunder is not a huge problem for the handful of AV 14 tanks out there, they’re an absolute nightmare for every AV13 or lower that are all but guaranteed to get a glancing or penetrating hit off a Lascannon, especially given how under costed they are for their effectiveness.If they were more expensive or lost Sunder they’d be fine, but for how common, cheap and effective they are, they’re absolutely broken currently, hence 10 marine Las HSS’s being the bane of everyone wanting to run tanks this edition.
>>93180355Dark Angel players living up to stereotypes again.
/40kg/ told me that you guys might fit the build better for what I'm looking to play. Tldr I have an autistic project I've been working on for years, a rogue trader army. Lots of malcadors, lots of storm troopers guard, a few powered armor goons lead by a power armored Rogue Trader. Are there any rules for HH that would better fit this project?
Overseer done.
>>93180555You're describing the militia army list to a T, just take the Warrior Elite and some other Provenance and the Merchant Princeling warlord trait.
>>93180663 Well that's convenient. Thanks for the info anon. I'll have to start researching how to play HH and organize my project accordingly.
>>93180355And people said I was mad for pointing out the femme proportions of nuMK3 and predicting it would prompt another wave of faggy fem-marine BS on socials.I'd be smug about being right, but honestly I'd rather have been wrong.
>>93180646Is he inspiring them with a free ticket to the gun show?
>>93180555In 1.0 one of the provenances improves saves by one(so you could have power armour on things like grenadiers), but that has been removed in 2.0. Other than that it's as >>93180663 says.
>>93180783as long as it works
>>93180044>vortex>vets and armistosThat's the shit that should be getting out of a destroyer launcher, not rad. Hard disagree on who should get that.
>>93180828I would accept Destroyers getting them instead/as well.I just like the idea of recapturing some of the old 2nd edition trouser shattering terror of your opponent suddenly hurling a sphere of hell at you caused. Vortex weapons were always great fun/an absolute nightmare, and I miss them.Hell, I’d even add a rule like Crawling Fire/Lingering Death where the blast marker would continue moving around and eating everything for a couple of turns. Maybe add that in the event of a 1 to hit, you place the blast template over the model firing instead too for good measure.
Humbling requesting anyone got a pdf of the devastation of Tallarn?
>>93180355>I was half right in saying they have gyno tittiesNu-MKIIIcels will never recover.
>>93179668Wow no oof. Rending 6+
>>93180355This looks like slop from Play On Tabletop. Is it those clowns?
>>93180355Why do you care enough to post it?
>>93179668No, the fix to RL is the same fix you need for all small blast weapons.Small blast weapons that are not barrage should r only scatter D6 inches. Krak should honestly get a new rule for it that applies only to vehicles and dreads, something like Shaped Charge: If a direct hit is rolled on the scatter die when targeting a vehicle or monstrous creature, or anything with Bulky 4 rule, increase the strength of this attack by 2, and grant the sunder special rule. Right now the biggest issue that Small blast has is it slows down the game SOOOOOOO fucking much. On top of that, the truth is the small blast template is a relic from the past that needs to die. Not templates in general just the small one. Remember the small template was created during a time when even terminators where on 25mm. The game has grown in scale to the point that the 3" blast is valueable against things on 32MM bases, espeically with a 2d6 scatter on them.
>>93181564>Shaped chargeSorry was cross frag and krak. Shaped charge should be something like "Shaped charge (X)" with X being the value you need, which honestly should be like 4+
>>93181564>Shaped Charge:That's just rending but different for no reason against vehicles and make no difference against dreads when you already wound them on 3s or 4s
>>93181564Krak is an implosion warhead, not a shaped charge one.
>>93181612nta but that's just retarded writing from the no guns people at gwHow the fuck is an implosion going to damage armor
>>93181620How does an explosion?
>>93181673Assuming the explosion is not big enough to just tear the metal apart, the pressure waves can cause the inside of the armor to fragment and send shrapnel flying around inside the tankBut this kinda of ammo is not really used again other tanks any more
>>93181766Im the anon that suggested the Shaped charge thing. In my mind Krak always worked like HEAT rounds, a shaped charge designed to penetrate armor. But it never really felt like that against vehicles.
>>93181793It should just be ap2 and call it a dayIt doesn't need to be good against land raidersBut it should at least be able to reliably damage a basic dreadnought or terminator...
>>93181793Overshrimplification is bad because it dumbs the game down. But that doesn't make overcomplexity the natural solution.I'm the guy who proposed Rending 6+. My reasoning is that current autocannons are actually better than Krak missiles against AV14 because they both need a 6 but ACs shoot twice.Rending 6+ is a simple modification to the statline, requires no new rules, and would enable missiles to threaten AV14 more, as well as dreadnoughts
>>93181839Missiles don't need to threaten AV14, that's the point of las cannons and meltas. They need to not bounce off terminators and dreads that already have invul to begin with
>>93181867This i agree with, but i dont think there is a rule in the game at the moment that would allow this to happen with out making it good against AV14 as well. Giving them Rending on a 5 or 6 now makes them a threat to AV14.
>>93181867>Missiles don't need to threaten AV14Autocannons do? I love ACs lol>They need to not bounce off terminators and dreads that already have invul to begin withRending 6+>>93181896>i dont think there is a rule in the game at the moment that would allow this to happen with out making it good against AV14 as well.Breaching 6+
>>93181926>Autocannons do? I love ACs lolIt makes them even more of a threat though. A Autocannon with rending 6 can still only glance.A Krak launcher with S8 means on a 6 it pens no matter what. Breaching 6+ would not make them a threat to terminators or dreads. At that point you more or less just made a ranged version of a power sword, you are fishing for 6s thats going to be such a horribly low chance at doing anything no one is ever going to use them as anti terminator weapons or anti dread weapons.
Imo missiles being an okay all rounder is the best spot for them. Okay anti vehicle, okay anti infantry, okay anti flyer is great for the cost. I’ve had no complaints with my 5 man squad with this mindset. I think the main problem stems from people thinking of it as an HSS only thing that should have a direct purpose, instead of a weapon that came from “I’m adding one to my tac squad” in 3-6e 40k.
>>93181926>BreachingReading this conversation, that's the conclusion I came to. Why not? Give krak (all krak) Breaching. Then it's not going to become super great against heavy tanks (can still glance AV14), but more effective against 2+ armour.
>>93180771That product has nothing to do with nu mk3 and everything to do with general faggotry they’d have done with any armor mark, its just mk3 is the most readily available marine kit for them to mutilate
>>93176911Lol
>>93181963>but more effective against 2+ armour.You all are putting a LOT of faith in rolling a 6+ and then assuming the target wont fail its 4++Anon just simple math, 10 Krak rockets into T4, SV2 4++ is going to be Thats 6.6 hits, rounds to 75.8 wounds round that up to 6 Assume 1 wound will be a 6 breaching, hell even assume 2 will be.so thats 3 on armor saves of 2 + meaning they are going to pass almost all of those,And if you assume perfect statistics they will fail 1 save, sure its an ID but that's a lot of assuming and rounding. No one with half a brain is going to us a 235 point unit to do 1 wound to a target. They are better off taking plasma canons at that point. Hell even Volkite is better then that.50 shots hitting on 3 is 33 hitsThats 22 woundsthats 3 wounds assuming perfect saves that go through. then you also get your deflagrate as well which statistically wont go through but its still there.
>>93182034>>93181949I mean, MLs aren't meant to be anti-TEQ guns, yeah. I'm sorry? They have never been anti-TEQ.In fact only in Nu40k did they become good against terminators because of how their save modifiers and wound chart works.Is that your goal? To be like Nu40k?
>>93181963>Why not? Give krak (all krak) Breaching. Then it's not going to become super great against heavy tanks (can still glance AV14), but more effective against 2+ armour.It shouldn't be>>93181926>>Missiles don't need to threaten AV14>Autocannons do? I love ACs lolIf anything I'd remove Rending 6+ from autocannons, seeing how they make other heavy guns feel all entitled and uppity, thinking everyone "deserves" Rending
>>93177393Living and dying by the termies, I see. Any reason you're not taking a dreadnought?
>>93182077>I mean, MLs aren't meant to be anti-TEQ guns, yeah. I'm sorry? They have never been anti-TEQ.I agree they should not be anti TEQ. Thats not their job. Im agreeing with you, i dont think they should try and make them good against terminators, against vehicles? Maybe a bit better. Or a bit cheaper.
>>93182034>rolling a 6+Notice how I didn't quote that part, only the "Breaching" part? As in, I agree with the idea of using Breaching, not that I agree it has to be 6+. You can make it higher, you know.
>>93182114>against vehicles? Maybe a bit better.Why tho
>>93182119Because right now there is no reason to take ML.There is currently not a situations where you would want to take them over anything else. they have no use case.
>>93182097>It shouldn't beWhy?
>>93182150Because they are not designed to be Anti TEQ weapons. That would be Plasma you are looking for.
>>93182131I'm not saying no, I'm just asking you to elaborate further.1. What is happening that people don't take missile launchers? (Problem definition)2. When should people use missile launchers? Against what targets? (Desired goal)Currently, missiles are the only HW that is flexible with three profiles: full AP3 ranged (rare) that kills VEQ, Pinning blast that threatens regular infantry, and anti-air Flakk.
I know anons have been asking for a sprue pic of the command squad kit
>>93180355cute boys
>>931821641. i already said why, they have no use case currently against armor because there are just better options and vehicles in general suck this edition. They have no use case against MEQ because the small blast template sucks. they have no use case against flyers because no one takes flyers again, vehicle suck.2. ML should be used as Anti MEQ weapons, but dont because again small templates suck. Or Anti T5-6 with a Sv3, so things like speeders, or Bikes but no one takes bikes because they are T4 now. Also against flyers, but again, no one brings flyers. Thats my main point, the Use cases of the ML, dont exist on the board anymore because the things they were good at dealing with suck now and no one runs them, outside of speeders. If you want a way to make ML more appealing, and by proxy Plasma canons, you need to fix the small blast template first. Small blast template was created during a time when the game was played on 25mm bases, so you could fit a lot more under a 3" template. Needless to say, you dont see 25mm bases much at all anymore. On top of that scatting a 3" template 2d6 is fucking brutal. You can begin to fix the problems with the ML and plasma canon by proxy, by looking at >Increasing the small blast>Reducing its scatter to D6 down from 2d6>or possibly removing scatter on small blasts all together.
>>93182154>plasma is anti-TEQ>despite only breaching their armour on a 4+>and needing twice as many hits now than before>meanwhile lascannons and meltas, weapons not designated as anti-TEQ, can penetrate 2+ without needing to roll for it and ID terminators
>>93182220I never said i dont think there are better options but thats because GW over corrected on Plasma, and over buffed las canons See my point here about fixing small blast templates. >>93182219If you fix small blast templates, plasma becomes viable.
>>93182232How were lascannons buffed vs. 2+ armour?
>>93182240They got buffed because everything else got nerfed, they are now the end all be all answer to everything.
>>93182267Have you tried not clinging to the past and accept plasma was "anti-TEQ" purely because it suited the mechanics of the time and we've moved past those days?
>>93182292Have you tried realizing that "LOL las canons" should not be the end all be all answer to everything and desiring specific types of weapons to perform a specific type of job is better over all for the game? Plasma should be the TEQ weapon to give it a purpose rather then LOL las canon.
>>93182320>so butthurt about lascannons completely forgets all the other weapons that are better than plasma at killing terminators>Plasma should be the TEQ weapon to give it a purposeWhy can't it be AP3 and be an anti-MEQ weapon?
>>93182349>Why can't it be AP3 and be an anti-MEQ weapon?I mean, im not against that either. I think it being AP4 with breaching 4 was stupid. AP3 with breaching 4 is more reasonable. However, the problem still exists of small templates being a relic of the past that needs to be reworked. If you rework small tempaltes so that you can reliably get more hits vs scattering into oblivion and the fact that the small template was designed around 25mm bases, we can start actually addressing the problems.
>>93182203Did they seriously stop posting these on the webstore?
>>93182368Make small blast weapons multi-shot non-blast. Keep large blasts and templates, because they're actually impactful. Done. 8th overcorrected by removing templates entirely, but making it so only the templates that stand a chance of doing anything are still in use would be a step forward. One that won't happen, but a step forward nonetheless.
>>93182398I think just either making it so small templates don't scatter or only scatter D6 would be more then enough of a fix for them. That way, even at worst you only scatter 2 inches.
>>93181896Just give them ap2Or maybe just Breaching 4+, but that does look a lot like melta...>>93181926>Autocannons do? I love ACs lolAutocannons have a chance to wound AV14, they are by no means good at it and a las canon is way more consistent
>Bunch of no models no games armchair generals thinking there is an issue and that they, and only they know how to fix itAverage /hhg/ day
>>93182077Krak ML are an antitank wapon.Antitank weapons are supposed to at least be able to go through TEQ armour.I don't give a fuck about what 40k does. 'Not being like 40k' is not an excuse for poor balance
i wish more people used plasma cannonsmaybe sunkillers with them could he potent, but they still have the "can take a lascannon so why wouldnt you" problemthousand sons ones with aetherfire could be good as well, but only if you cant spend the points for lascannons
>>93182556>i wish more people used plasma cannonsI want to so bad, i love plasma, but it being AP4 base, and Breaching 4+, with a gets hot, and needing to scatter them? Fuck no, to many what ifs and things that slow down the game. >AetherfireSpeaking form experience, they are MEH at best. side grade if anything. Sure its S8, sure it has no gets hot, but you are then banking everything on rolling a 6 assuming you dont scatter off of them. then they get a 50/50 shot of making it. Everytime i have used any version of the aether fire weapons, its always disappointment. I get way better rate of return on regular plasma.
Anyone got a pdf for the davastation of Tallarn, or when the Mega for the thread is going to be fixed/replaced?
>>93182556Plasma needs to have ap2What they did to plasma this edition is dumbYou don't need less Ap2 weapons around if you are also going to double the wounds of everything with a 2+sv...
>>93182659It feels like they overcorrected way to much on some things this edition
>>93182677They 100% did, templates, powers, and AP in general got over corrected. >>93182659Yes and no. It going to AP4 base? Fucking stupid. Plasma would be fine at AP3, with breaching 4. I dont think thats at all unreasonable because it gives it a very nice place as a TEQ killer, but still leaves things like meltas to be the "I dont wanna fucking have to worry about it" option. Making Plasma a flat AP2 just creates the problem from last edition which is what las canons have this edition. "LOL just take plasma"
>>93182677Typical thing where every writer finds a different solution, they all get rolled into the new rules, and now the thing that was too strong gets nerfed into the dirt and something else gets a massive buff purely because it has no competition. Like meltaguns benefiting from both AC being removed and multi-wound 2+ dudes.
>>93182556I was considering taking some plasma cannon Sunkillers for my EC honestly; lascannons are cool as well and I probably need the anti armour more, but god damn plasma cannons are so much cooler.Also unrelated, but does anyone have ideas on how to differentiate a sun killer squad from a normal heavy support squad? Planning on using the new MkIII
Anyone have experience with TPC? Payday's coming and I want sabres
>>93182713I definitly feel like there were a LOT Of different hands in the cookie jar for HH2.0 rules. Legions feel like they were siloed from each other simply because of how massively wild each legion swings in terms of powers, ROW constancy, specials equipment rules and limitations. You will get things were they make really interesting rules but dont expand on them.For exapmle i think the breaching rule? Great idea. However, it should be expanded on. They should make it so its Breaching (X/Y) with a roll of X to wound increases the AP to Y. So that way its not locked into just boosting to AP2.
>>93182712Yea ap3 base would at least make it the go-to MEQ killer
>>93182752Which i think is fine, considering the point sink you need to invest to make a dedicated range MEQ killer.
>>93182219>ML should be used as Anti MEQ weapons, but dont because again small templates suckWhat about the Krak's AP3 profile? Seems like it'd trash anything clad in power armour, including many legion-specific VEQs>No one takes flyersWhy is that? I am from the "if the Emperor had wanted us to fly, he'd given us wings like he gave Sanguinius" school, but that's me. So I don't take Storm Eagles, but I recognize they exist.>Plasma Cannon Small blasts too time-comsuming for low rewardI can offer you turning them into Heavy 3 weapons. Reasoning: it's what FW itself did with seeker ammo
>>93182220FR did 7E 40k Codex Space Marines players never fired Lascannons onto terminators? Honest question, I wasn't yet here but some of you were there since 4e or even earlierHow come Lascannon hasn't been the best gun ever always?
>>93182816>What about the Krak's AP3 profile?Its 10 shots, sure its chewing through their save. But its still only 10 shots that some cheeky cunt with artificer armor is going to tank. >Why is that?I told you why, they suck, because vehicles suck. >I can offer you turning them into Heavy 3 weaponsJust make it scatter D6 instead of 2d6, problem solved, at most it will only ever scatter 2 inches, and at worst it will still guarantee a hit against the initial target.
>>93182816>it's what FW itself did with seeker ammoA crime against humanity? No, thank you. They should've just made a 3" version of the apocalyptic barrage template for multi-shot small blasts. Place it over the target and roll a die for each shot. Or bring back how blasts used to be, hit or miss. Roll to hit line normal, if you hit, place the marker over the target and resolve. If a miss, the shot misses. Scattering every single blasts of tiresome.
>>93182836>FR did 7E 40k Codex Space Marines players never fired Lascannons onto terminators?No, because grav cannons were complete bullshit that edition. They had multiple shots, ap2 base and wounded on the same roll as your armor.
>>93182349>>93182368>AP3 plasma>But also Breaching 4+Half-assed measure. Let it be full AP2What is the problem AP2 causes that AP3 Breaching 4+ apparently doesn't? Gets Hot would still imperil the firer, and Terminators would still get to survive a plasma shot. AP2 doesn't suddenly turn plasma into antitank
>>93182836Limited access and high point cost. Also, besides somebody bringing a land raider or necron monolith, there weren't many vehicles that warranted the need for lascannons. Terminators also haven't been remotely good for the longest time, there were short periods of storm shield thunder hammer terminators being good but their points cost and need for land raider transport meant you'd rarely see more than five. Plasmagun/lascannon tactical squads was the meta for quite a while however. To kill terminators people brought plasmaguns or lasguns
>>93182836>How come Lascannon hasn't been the best gun ever always?Because it was expensive and was just a single shot. Plasma for example would be able to nuke a terminator or 2 because back them terminators were 1 wound a pop, and you were forcing them onto a 5++ because back then the only thing that ever got a 4++ was captains. So las was best as an anti vehicle or dread weapon. Same thing with Melta, its was a great upclose fuck you gun to vehicles. Then grave came to be a thing which was a hot fucking mess of a weapon that threw the entire game off balance, it was basically a plasma gun+las canon in one. I was there gandalf, i was there when drop pod dev squads with 4 grav canons with a cataphractii character attached to them to convey slow and purposeful was a thing. I witnessed the horrors of cheese. >>93182881>Half-assed measure. Let it be full AP2No, we dont need the situation that las canons have on plasma as well. AP3 with breaching 4+ is where it should be.
>>93182836>doesn't know about 6-man las/plas squadsIn later editions it was harder to spam them and they got expensive.
>>93182898That and when they Las plas razer back came out that kinda filled that job cheaper and better.
>>93182455>they are by no means good at itThey are. Twice as good as Missile launchers because both aim for a 6, but autocannons fire twice as much. It's all very good and I love them.But maybe they're too powerful lmao
>>93182881>AP2 doesn't suddenly turn plasma into antitankThis, I don't understand how anybody can think that plasma getting AP 2 will make everybody throw their meltaguns in the garbage. Plasma doesn't even come close to a melta's ability to crack heavy vehicles reliably. The only reason no one had any melta weapons in HH 1.0 was because of armoured ceramite, not because plasmaguns had AP 2.
>>93182891>with a cataphractii character attached to them to convey slow and purposeful was a thingI don't remember that being a thingI do remember the bullshit Formation that just let you come down turn one and gain relentless for no reason
>>93182927>I don't remember that being a thingIt was, it was fucking miserable too. The gimmick was, you would take a dev squad, then attach a character that had the slow and purposeful specials rule. Slow and Purposeful worked like Infiltrate's, it got conveyed to the squad, so you could have an entire squad of devs able to move and shoot at full BS. so you would give them a drop pod, send them in, step them out, and unload into your opponents back line with grav, its was fucking stupid.
>>93182891Anybody who had to try and kill Firedrakes in HH 1.0 Those already had 2 wounds back then for all you fucking newbies with ap 2 plasmaguns will tell you that meltaguns will start looking mighty interesting. Specially when the cunt put a primus medicae in the unit of Firedrakes.
>>93182927>I do remember the bullshit Formation that just let you come down turn one and gain relentless for no reasonIm pretty sure that was because of the cheese i mentioned >>93182951I dont recall any formation that gave you relentless the turn you came in. >>93182953True, i suppose though with terminator armor granting a +1 to wounds, that AP2 plasma would not be the end of the world anymore.
>>93182911>Twice as good as Missile launchers because both aim for a 6, but autocannons fire twice as muchThey both suck at it20 autocannons shots result in 2 HP damage.And everything with AV14 is reinforced so with ap4, 2 out 3 times penetrating does nothing and the other 1 out of 3 is just a weapon or immobilized result.You are spending 250p on that.That's not good at all
>>93182953Firedrake supremacy :)
>>93182719>how to differentiate a sun killer squad from a normal heavy support squadPhoenician helmets and chainswords would be enough.But give them white enamel pauldrons & accents and they'll stand out for sure>>93182856>Vehicles suck, that's why nobody uses flyers!>I also want missiles to be better against vehicles. Maybe give them AP2Y'all're schizo>>93182868>Multiple small blasts should be a 3" apocalyptic barrageBarrage is the key word here. So, if you guys have one such thing, good desu. If not, Blast 3" -> 3 shots doesn't sound so wild
>>93182891>AP3 with breaching 4+ is where it should be.Why?
>>93182986>>Vehicles suck, that's why nobody uses flyers!>>I also want missiles to be better against vehicles. Maybe give them AP2>Y'all're schizoI dont want them to have AP 2 lol.
>>93183014Gives melta a fixed role of being the "I want to fuck up anything im in rage of regardless of armor" while Plasma is the "I wanna be able to fuck up MEQ but still have to gamble on TEQ.But again, with 2w terminators i suppose its not that big of an issue anymore since they still need 2 plasma shots to kill them.
>>93182986>Barrage is the key word here.That was just the name of the marker, it was used with direct fire weapons too.>Blast 3" -> 3 shots doesn't sound so wildSo a frag missile is just a heavy stubber now?
>>93182976>Land Raiders should die in a single salvo to a single unit!Tau hands typed that post
>>93183026>>Blast 3" -> 3 shots doesn't sound so wild>So a frag missile is just a heavy stubber now?With pinning and extra range? YES.
>>93183050You got to go back >>93181412
>>93183025Plus it's not like people will stop using melta just because Plasma has AP2. What kept people from using melta in 1.0 was Armoured Ceramite.
>>93182836Technically not 7ed 40k, but in HH 1.0 I fired a bunch of Lascannons into Eidolon and Palatine blades, vaporising the whole squad.
>>93183064If I was in there it'd be 1d3 autohits +1 for every 5 models in the target unit or something weird like that
>>93183073>Mfw the best Thunder Hammer in the galaxy won't save you if your opponent is boiling your bones out with a lascannon!
>>93183081>>93183064Just make small templates scatter d6.It LITERALLY solves all the problems with it.
>>931828367th, Marine ran alot of bikes, armoured cav, and drop pods, because formation gud.Not many terminators or AV14, just alot of rhinos and 3+ saves.
>>93183098I still die on the hell that in CC you should be able to dedicate 1 attack using a models pistol profile.
>>93183109To be fair though that was becuase of how easy it was to amass AP2 weapons and things like grav. Everything was 1 wound, and AP2 so no point in fielding SV2 if its gonna die as fast as a cheaper SV3 model. People running SV3 models was the symptom not the cause.
>>93183113Tempting. Say that you can't have used it in the preceding shooting phase and I'll consider it.
>>93183128Nah even then. In melee combat, if you are equipped with a pistol. you can dedicate at max, 1 attack to the pistol profile using it with your WS. If you have a template weapon it gets 1 auto hit instead.
>>93183128Waaait...what about Pistol 2 volkite serpentas? 1 melee attack turns into 2 shots?
>>93183137>Nah even thenThat's a no?>1 attack to the pistol profile using it with your WS.Yeah I assumed it'd use WS instead of BS>If you have a template weapon it gets 1 auto hit instead.I'll see
>>93183142Its 1 shot with your pistol. You get 1 volkite serpenta shot. not pistol 2.If you want the way i would world it Any pistol x weapon becomes melee, and may have 1 of the models attacks dedicated to using its damage profile and specials rules as a melee weapon. Template pistol weapons are resolved as 1 automatic hit, all other weapons hit using the models WS rather then BS.
>>93182986>Phoenician helmets and chainswords would be enough.Are Phoenician helmets compatible with MkIII? I kinda was under the assumption they were a MkIV or artificer thing, swear I remember reading somewhere that MkIII was just incompatible with everything desu>But give them white enamel pauldrons & accents and they'll stand out for sureSimplest solutions make for the best solutions. At the very least the white armour panels like in between the legs, on their shoulders and in the back leg panels + sheathed chainswords should sell the look, and if Phoenician helmets are kosher than that’d be perfect.
>>93183169I see. If you had 2 pistols, that's still only 1 melee attack at one of the pistol's stats (using WS), right?But regarding previous use. So, can you fire a plasma pistol, charge, then fire the plasma pistol again in melee?
>>93183185>Are Phoenician helmets compatible with MkIII?iHop so. But if they weren't, maybe crests or plumes.But if they are, you're all set
>>93183034If it takes you 3 fucking turns to kill something that costs less than your unit you are not good at killing that.You are specially not good if the same unit can take other weapons that have better results
>>93183210>I see. If you had 2 pistols, that's still only 1 melee attack at one of the pistol's stats (using WS), right?Yep.Does not matter if its pistol 1, 2 pistol 3, or pistol 500Pistol (x) becomes Melee. >But regarding previous use. So, can you fire a plasma pistol, charge, then fire the plasma pistol again in melee?.Yes. Because its just a melee weapon in combat but you still only get 1 shot. So you can fire your pistol, charge, then in combat, if oyu are equiped with a pistol you can dedicate 1 of your attacks for that model to its pistol for a single shot. So if you have a model with 1 attack, has a pistol, and a CCW, and charges, they ahve 3 attacks total. They can toss 1 attack using the pistol profile, and the other 2 attacks into their Melee weaponHOWEVER, you still would attack at the initive of your lowest weapon. So if you were swinging a power sword and plasma pistol, you would your attacks at I4, but if you had a plasma pistol and a power fist, you would swing at I1 with both.
>>93183274>So you can fire your pistol, charge, then in combat, if oyu are equiped with a pistol you can dedicate 1 of your attacks for that model to its pistol for a single shot.Nooo I don't like that one :( Idk...
>>93183268>If it takes you 3 fucking turns to kill something that costs less than your unit you are not good at killing that.Yes. Autocannons are NOT good at killing Land Raiders. Nor should they be.Don't want them to be something they aren't. They "aren't useless against it" at most.
>>93183295I think its fine, because it makes pistols have a bit more weight and use behind them in terms of being useful. Plus look at whos shooting a pistol, its not like you can stack a unit full of a plasma pistols on every single guy, its gonna be on characters.Or hell you could even make it so that the entire rule of using the profile of the pistol for a single melee attack only works on models with character or IC.
>>93183259>But if they weren't, maybe crests or plumes.Fair compromise, suppose doing something like MkII helmets could also help to distinguish them even slightly from the other MkIII units I’m gonna have in the army. Cheers for the help anon, and that’s a nice EC lad you got.I’m still waiting on the purple paints I ordered to arrive so have a pic of the legiones auxilia I plan on having chilling out in a cardboard cereal bunker I’m working on.
>Land Raiders and Land Speeders invented by Arkhan Land>Astartes invented by Amar Astarte>Algorithms invented by Mohammed AlgorithmWho invented bolters, again?
>>93183385Usain Bolt of course
>>93183385The Emperor did. Master of Mankind, chapter six.
>>93183314>its not like you can stack a unit full of a plasma pistols on every single guyCommand squads can have two plasma pistols. Each.
>>93183385John Boltgun, previously known as John Browning, known perpetual and old enemy of the Emperor in exchange for the last star spangled banner of old Merica on the planet and a Martian shuttle so he could escape into the cosmo. During the Unification Wars Emps later claimed he did it to keep the knowledge of perpetuals a secret.
>>93183478You still only get 1 shot with them, its not 1 each, its 1 shot total.
>>93183478>>93183314Guess there goes my wish of making Inferno Pistols available to characters and not restricted to BA & Sal
>>93183536Why wouldn't you be able to shoot both?
>>93183762Because a pair of plasma pistols is quantum entangled - if you fire one, the other one will quantum collapse to an unfired state.
>>93182028based
>>93182203>1 (one) bolt pistolbruh
reminder that sang was a savage mutant and deserved to be culledon an unrelated note emperors children best legion
i hope you have a nice day
>>93183858i'd traditionally say fuck you, but you would take take too much fun in that
>>93184046
>>93184054
>>93183113we had this in previous editions of 40k, it was bullshitfirstly because the way it worked meant you could fire that pistol each time you made an attack with it, which makes no sense at alllike you get 1 shot with a bolt pistol from 20 feet away, but from 2 feet away you're just blastin' and this is post To Hit, so they're all hitting the targetsecondly because even if you limited it to one attack per pistol (meaning a model with two pistols using both to attack would only get a maximum of 2 attacks) you still have to deal with guys who have one inferno pistol shot immolating you while they make 5 attacks with a chainswordlike the Parry rule and height advantage in melee it died for a reason
>>93184046>>93184054>>93184063on the podium of "primarchs who were actively detrimental to their legion" ferrus share the 1rst place with angron
>>93184223The writers probably had no idea what to do with Ferrus, so they just made him a raging incompetent retard.
>>93184129>Parry2nd ed Parry wouldn't work in modern fast-rolling dice pools of attacks, but I think giving models a 6++ Parry save in melee for units with swords (maybe 5++ if they're really good) would work just fine. With the stipulation that they can't parry a swing more than twice their strength.But I agree that pistols wouldn't really work in the current system. Even if they got something like 40k's Extra Attacks rule, like you said, Inferno Pistols would still be a problem. They're fine being shootable into melee in the Shooting Phase. They don't need a second phase each of their player's turns to shoot.
>>93183880>BAfag doesn't actually have an argument and resorts to petty insults....don't play into his hands
>>93184244it's a fucking shame. how hard was it to have him go for one last charge to hold back the istvaan 3 traitor legions once the reinforcements show their true colors, so that the few loyalists may escape.doesn't even take much change from his current character, but instead of screaming griffith along the way he just say "you'll live to fight another day"
>>93176220Hey tg WIP land raider for dark angles trying to do something to make it so I'm not setting just black bricks on the table this attempt one.
>>93184342Darkening it a bit
>>93184282what's the argument to have here ? that all primarchs were garbage people who decide the lives of billions on a whim ? BL took care of that. yes sanguinius was definitively enjoying killing a lot more than he should. but as he's written he tried to fix, or cull that amidst his legion. fulgrim did most of that on every campaign. i guess it's okay cuz his 4 meter tall ass is prettier than sanguinius's
>>93184223That's why Ferrus is the best loyalist.
>>93182028Lmao
>>93183863Bueno
>>93184360>yes sanguinius was definitively enjoying killing a lot more than he shouldDang I don't have my drawing of Sanguinius crying so hard it splits a mortal in two
>>93183385dr john bolters bolt pattern gun
>>93184275Hmm too bad that Inferno pistols being the outlier breaks the whole melee pistol thing. I still think having them shoot both in the shooting phase and melee phase is too much.If it was an attack using the pistol's stats but only in your melee phase and only if you didn't also use it in the preceding shooting phase, then yeah maybe......but that sounds too complicatedI won't support parry because I'll do different things for power weapons
>>93184564>It's not a Boltgun>It's a Bolt's Gun
>>93184223>podium of primarchs who were actively detrimental to their legionthat's gotta be a long podium anon, with going on 20 places
>>93183385Albert Warmaster Heavy Battle Titan
>>93183385So neutron lasers were invented by Jimmy Neutron?
>>93184712yes
>>93184712Flamers were invented by Antonio Ghay Flame
>>93184360my argument isn't that sangy was bad because he killed too much, its that he deserved to die for being a filthy mutant with vampiric tendencies
>>93184717And power swords by John Sword.
>>93184634What would you do with Power Weapons?I'd give some Power Swords something like Vicious Riposte. On a roll of a 6 to Save in melee, this weapon deals one automatic wound to the attacking unit. This wound is treated as the weapon's base AP value an no other special rules apply.
>>93184717Johnny Imperial and Ollanius Guard, the joint co-founders of the Imperial Guard after the Horus heresy
professor timothy space's shipborne combatants; designation: marine.
>>93184823NTA but I would make the basic power weapons axe, sword, mace, lance etc. share the same profile again. Something like Str +1 AP 3 Rending 6+. Main reason: people can just use whatever power weapon think looks the most cool, and people no longer have to jump through hoops to source enough power weapon bits.
>>93184223it'd be easier to list the primarchs who didn't fuck over their legion
>>93184890Jagathai Khan, maybe?
>>93184901he fucked them over by not turning traitor
>>93184880I dunno about that. 40k combining all the various power weapons into one profile was for the best ever since 9th bumped Power Swords to +1 Strength. So it was no longer a choice between wounding other MEQs on 4s with more AP or wounding them on 3s but with less AP. They were both occupying the same role of "weapon that wounds MEQs on 3s" but now there was no point to taking the lower AP except for niche cases of going against Death Guard or Custodes who were all T5.HH at least has the decency to make Power Axes and Power Swords fit different roles and has much more granularity in the rules. With Power Swords able bully anything with a 3+ save but bounce off anything with a 2+. While axes can punch through that 2+ but suffer from Unwieldly, so they strike at Initiative 1.
>>93184941Power axes are bullying no one but themselves now that all 2+ save units had 2 wounds or more.
>>93184950All Marines should have 2 wounds like 40k.And Terminators have 4 wounds.And all vehicles double their Hull Points and Wounds.
>>93184972No. Go back to playing 40k and don't come back.
nu mk3 look so bad god dammit i just need 20 more old mk3
>>93184972>least retarded 10ed player
>>93184998the DREADFUL SAGGITARY
I think Emperors children should strike a fine line between them all being murder rape body horror monsters and patrican men of culture who stand around greek amphitheatres talking about the nature of man, art, and literature whilst segregating themselves into more and more elitist art circles
>>93185057who asked
>>93185103I DID
>>93185103Don't you ever have thoughts that you would like to share unprompted by anything going on in a thread? Where else am I going to post the dogshit coming out of my brain? Vasectomy having faggot Reddit? Boomer 30k facebook groups?
>>93185140
>>93185057>patrican men of culture who stand around greek amphitheatres talking about the nature of man, art, and literature whilst segregating themselves into more and more elitist art circlesits a damn shame the emperors children went traitor, they're like the blood angels but better in every single conceivable way
>>93184823>What would you do with Power WeaponsI've heard about riposte, but really, instead of adding yet more stuff I'd simply nick 1 Str off mauls and spearsI know people MEGA FUCKING HATE losing stuff, but thing is there's like a dozen or so Special Swords, but only like 5 special spears & mauls across some 3 legions.Swords are the base because they are the most numerous. It is mauls and spears what are the outliers.
>>93185249>its a damn shame the emperors children went traitor, they're like the blood angels but better in every single conceivable wayThis. OMG this so much. They are as if someone combined the exacting smarts (& snob) of the Ultramarines and the grace & grit of the Blood angels.They even are purple: red + blue
>>93185249It's almost like the story of the EC is a tragedy.
>>93184880>>93184972Yeah, I spy with my little eye some great ideas. Let's also roll all legion specific units into things like>meq or teq unit that is statted towards melee>meq or teq unit that is statted towards shootingand we should also roll tss and hss weapons into a single profile each. Next we could roll the non-marine factions into a single one that has different units divided by their base size, each with a shooting and a melee version, no wargear. It would certainly help making the game run more smoothly so when they are used off as allies by the marine player he doesn't have to memorize all the different stats, special rules or wargear. We should also simplify legion traits into shooting and meleeing, and let's remove all warlord traits. Let's also make jump packs a boost to M without any special rule. Let's remove all slots except for HQ and Troops. Another great fix might be fusing together assault marines, tacticals, despoilers, heavy support squads, tactical support squads, vets breachers, destroyers, seekers, scouts and recons into a single unit with only wargear differences. Let's do the same to bikes, dreads, speeders, flyers and termies. Let's remove as much wargear as possible to limit how many effects one has to keep track of. Let's make every unit able to react without being subjected to any limits for less book keeping. Let's also throw out phases it isn't the 90s anymore. Let's remove most of the army building things like points. Let's remove terrain rules so we can focus on making a cool looking board instead of having to keep track of cover saves, terrain effects and other nonsense. Let's remove the fluff bits from the army books. I think we might be looking at the perfect war game now. I've only included the retarded things I've heard or read someone suggest unironically at least once most of which were even posted in our very own /hhg/.
>>93185413No I have a better idea: let's give each pattern of power armour its own distinct rules so nobody can have units of mixed power armour anymore, and each legion helmet, shoulder pads and chest upgrade set too, make distinct rules for the different patterns of ranged weapons so that a phobos pattern bolter is not the same as a tigrus pattern, have the deimos pattern rhino chassis have different rules than the mars pattern rhino, just give every little variation its own distinct rules.
>>93185517That sounds wonderful anon, I'm adding that to the rest.
>>93185373Power mauls should be AP4
>>93185744How effective do you think mauls/maces were against armor compared to swords, again?
>>93185771I dunno, never seen a POWER sword or Maul before.
>>93185517We kinda already did that in 1.0:1. MkII (lol!) & MkIV: Normal2. MkIII: Heavy type3. MkV: Outflank4. MkVI: Skirmisher type
>>93185771Anon if they worked like historical mauls they'd have a special rule they'd be rending without the AP2.
>>93185797Unpopular opinion: power mauls should have a -2 AP modifier.Yes I'm a degen who thinks there's no reason HH and 40k armour penetration mechanics can't exist alongside each other in the same game.
>>93185797I bet we could totally have an optional 2e mode on sundays:>The warp pulses and realspace quakes! All power weapons are AP2
>>93185854To the pyre with you40k ap mechanics are by far the worst shit they did in 8th edition and it's been down hill ever since
>>93185867No hear me out: when used sparingly, to give some weapons a different effect, AP modifiers can just add a little more variation and flavour to the rules. But yeah, the entire AP mechanics being about modifiers is absolute garbage.
>>93185867The problem with the 40k ap mechanics is that they introduced primaris and had to give everyone and their mother AAp-1or D2 weapons to ccompensate. Multiple damage weapons are gay (including brutal). Nothing that is a standard infantry weapon should have an AP modifier, the formula should be current AP -- 5, so AP 5 is AP 0, AP 4 is AP -1, etc. That and removing brutal makes it so 2W termies are still tough with modifiers around and you can have plasmas be equivalent AP2 again.
>>93185892>No hear me outno, i dont think i will.
>>93185954>The problem with the 40k ap mechanics is that they introduced primarisPrimaris have nothing to do with it. Ap modifiers are retarded because even a -1 affects good armour exponentially more than bad armour.A terminator goes from suffering a wound 1/6 of the time to 1/3. That's double the damage. A guardsmen goes from having no armour save to suddenly getting a 6+ and that's just moronic when you still price heavy infantry way more than light one.Queue in 3 fucking editions of trying to balance that nightmare by changing the wounds and armour and ap of every unit and weapon while also throwing in mortal wounds because why the fuck not.That system is fundamentally retarded and they'd rather have 4w basic troops or 5ppm chaff with 4A each than admit the fucked up and change it back
>>93186334Well it was the 40k community that was begging for armour save modifiers to return, they got what they asked for.
>>93184989I almost bought a box for a hundred bucks but figured I'm not gonna be using that much power armor so I might as well just either stick with the mkIV or find a recaster and grab the older resin squads.We've lost so much...
>>93186350I've literally never heard anyone ask for that in 7th
>>93186455Then you must not have been around much, it was everywhere at the time. Specially on Warseer of course, the idiots.
>>93186465>it was everywhere at the timeno it wasnt
How's a Cerberus as a superheavy? I think it looks cool, but would it be good?
>>93186334I feel that the original Terminator method of having armour saves on 2D6 (alongside invulnerable saves etc on 1D6) was both the answer to this - making all armour saves, and only armour saves, 2D6 - and completely the wrong way to go, as in, it's a fix for a problem that all-or-nothing AP values simply does away with. Yes you'd get a greater range - for all that matters, since it's not a true range that would encompass improvised leather armour up to star-forged sapient goonplate and even the D100 wouldn't cover that adequately - but imagine trying to explain to someone why they've got to roll double 6 for an AP - Wound on a 4 point model at all while the 40 point model over there is rolling any sum greater than 2. At that point you might as well just write it off as no save for the worst armour and if you're going to do that, why not go back to the faster D6 system that worked just fine for 40k and Epic and god knows how many other games. And if you're going to do that, why not have the all-or-nothing AP system regardless, because then you can just say "AP 5" and the guy with the 4-point model doesn't have to think about it and the guy with the 40 point model doesn't have too much to worry about, even though he's not as survivable in game length as he would be with save mod AP and a 2D6 save.
>>93185744power maul veteranss beating Rhinos to death and then beating the occupants to death while going oi oi oi oi oi oi oi will never not be funny
>>93186350Save modifiers are fine if you don't make it completely impossible to balance any weapon ever by giving units +1 to their save 50% of the time through an easily obtainable cover bonus. No weapon in 40k can ever be balanced correctly because it will always either over or under perform vs any target by 16.67% depending on if that profile was balanced against a target in cover or out of cover. That's why you see the AP characteristic fluctuating up and then down and then up again every time they release a book, it cannot ever be correct it's always too high or too low because the characteristic being modified by it changes easily and frequently even on the same unit during the course of a game.
>>93186518>Gives away 3 VP after one lucky penetrating hitIt's trash.
>>93186625So, 2 then?
>>93179668Missiles are great to ID veterans at least, but I feel they should have Rending 6+ too like autocannons.
>>93186757You also need missile launchers to clear tactical marines with apothecary off an objective. If you are forced to shoot them with lascannons because the regular stuff isn't going through that 4+ FnP, you're already losing.
>>93186757Rending 6 ML would actually make them better at vehicle hunting then Auto canons are, because S8 with rending would NEVER be able to glance a 14, it would only be able to ever pen it.
You don't have these problems when you play Titanicus
>>93186886the only problem is lascannons having sunder, missile launchers are fine.
>>93186886ummm xir you cannot play ttianicus anymore as it has been squatted that would be very illegal
>>93180646Is he a blood bowl player too?
>>93186880Sounds like autocannons shouldnt' have rending either then. Just like how Lascannons shouldn't have Sunder
>>93182556WB has best spooky plasma
>>93182659Yes, honestly plasma is so weak now because of the increase of veterans and terminators having 2 wounds. Plasma can't deal with that reliably or even ID.
>>93187031autocannons are mediocre even with rending
>>93187185they are much better with rending but most importantly they look cool, also JUST play IW
>>93187211>sifting through their dead>one guy is so shattered he's nuzzling his bolter like a daki>pissboy flag flies high in the back you love to see it
>>93183374>cardboard white dwarf bunkerholy sovl
>>93187455wall rat atop his wall
>>93187569>t. iron babby waist-deep in a moat of petrochemical residue and rotting gore he's fallen into plotting how to preserve his measly life as though being cannon fodder for another failed siege is worth the bother
>>93187604ironcage
>>93187604>>93187619dare you enter our magical fortress?
>>93187619oh, that time that perturabo liquidated his legion so thoroughly in mulching down the fistoids through a shredder that they were consigned to being little more than warbands hence themselveswhat a victoryanything for daemon prince fuckboys i guess
>>93187604Why does that look like Marty?
>>93187672you mean the time wall rats got totally culled to the point that they had to be replaced with smurf geneseed for 1000s of years.
>>93187672The Iron Warriors Civil War didn't occur until 300 years later across the Empire of Iron, which means they were a lot stronger than "warbands" level afterwards. The Imperial Fists however were reduced down enough to only fill the six Chapters they were then split into. From Legion to Chapter strength. And probably not enough to fill each Chapter entirely, so sub-6000. They were genocided into Codex Astartes-compliant level numbers. Dorntastic!
>>93187729>From Legion to Chapter strength.GW can't into numbers. Weren't legions originally 10,000 marines before they had to be increased to 100,000? Idk how many marines there were left after the Siege of Terra, but overall 40% casualties in 10 years is a decent kill count.I mean think of it. Perturabo ascended to daemonhood by sacrificing merely 300 geneseeds?Sounds like he ascended by accident>My lord, the XIII fleet approaches. What shall we do?>Our work here is done. Evacuate every warrior that can walk, leave the rest>What about the captured IF geneseed?>Eh, I shall burn it to deny it to my father's lapdogs>[The skies turn red and the ground shakes]>*WE ACCEPT YOUR OFFERING*>Wtf>THE GENESEED. YOU BURNED IT, WE CAME.
>>93186886Titanicus is too advanced and simulational for the redditors of HHG. Titanicus is a rich man's game for successful people
>>93187824>YOU BURNED IT, WE CAME.He he.
>>93188005Dang, I wished i had downloaded "A lesson in darkness" before the MEGA got busted. Is it ONLY an audio drama? No written version?
>>93187729>the IF barely filled six chaptersnot true, the BT were always larger than codex compliant, pretty much anyone who wanted to follow Sigismund to the Eye joined so they likely had at least up to 5k marines there, with something like 10k over all chapters.
>>93186334>>93186547A solution to the AP modifier system is to hand out modifiers very sparingly, and make it so that invulnerable saves can be taken on top of normal saves. Makes things like terminators virtually impervious to small arms fire (as they should be), but still pretty resilient against anything heavier. If we take anon's broad suggestion of making AP4 a -1 modifier then cataphractii would be just as good as it is at the moment against AP4, slightly worse against AP3, and better at saving against AP2 and AP1. Power armour would get a bit worse against anything AP4, but then those weapons are in a pretty shitty place in the game at the moment anyway and could probably use the boost, while AP3 and even AP2 would get a bit worse at killing MEQ.
>>93188190>make it so that invulnerable saves can be taken on top of normal savesYou can't be serious.
>>93188190I mean the obvious solution is to tie AP to strength as it was in warhammer fantasy. It doesn't matter if good armour is effected exponentially worse by modifiers when AP is tied to strength which becomes less available and points expensive as it increases. It would also much more closely reflect the reality of the setting and things like terminators will be exponentially more survivable from having the invulnerable save option at strengths over 7.
AoD's rules set is literally flawless and immaculately balanced
>>93187729I should probably hate that image since modern day military operator equivilant posturing, movement and tactics don't really belong in the setting, but there's something very cool and somewhat endearing about those two IW's in the back replicating that, maybe since it also implies a level of trust and familiarity between the two, a physical representation of the bonds of the unique brotherhood astartes have by the simple gesture of a reassuring hand on a power pack while your brother takes point in an intense firefight scenario.If anything that image kind of makes me like Iron Warriors more to an extent, since it broadcasts a level of humanity deep within them, even if such a thing can only be noticed in the flashes of a combat scenario.
>>93188247>IW's>level of humanity>when their flavor of inductii existno other legion is quite so much simple offal to be fed into a rendering machine
>>93188247I'm pretty sure that's the "artist" who just traces actual war photo's and such. Personally I can't stand how the laser pointers are coming out of random parts of the bolters, the weird leg armour the most obvious giveaway that it is traced and other inconsistencies. If could unironically be AI slop if it wasn't for the marines having the correct amount of fingers.
>>93188222Why not? Think through the maths on it, if you combine it with AP modifiers then the change isn't that dramatic. Taking cataphractii as an example:>AP5 or worse - 83% save rate becomes 92%>AP4 - 83% save rate stays 83%>AP3 - 83% save rate becomes 75%>AP2 - 50% save rate becomes 67%>AP1 - 50% save rate becomes 58%For tartaros:>AP5 or worse - 83% save rate becomes 89%>AP4 - 83% save rate becomes 78%>AP3 - 83% save rate becomes 67%>AP2 - 33% save rate becomes 56%>AP1 - 33% save rate becomes 44%For power armour:>AP5 - 67% stays 67%>AP4 - 66% becomes 50%>AP3 - 0% becomes 33%>AP2 - 0% becomes 17%>AP1 - 0% stays 0%
>>93188392>>AP2 - 33% save rate becomes 56%>Just turn Tartaros into cataphractii and cataphractii into something that is just invulnerable to damage 2/3 of the time no matter what shoots at them>This isn't just going to result in more Brutal weapons to compensate for that >that's not going to result into more invulnerables being spammed>that's not going to result into mortal wounds being a thing>that's not going to result into more wounds being needed >that's not going to result into multiple damage weapons and ID being abandoned>that's not going to result in basic troops with 4 wounds each >that's not going to result in fucking militia having 3A with ap-1 each.Fuck off with the ap modifiers already jesus christWhat part do you not understand about them still not knowing how to balance that shit in 40k after 3 fucking editions?Why the fuck would you want that shoehorned into HH?It's a shit system that gives no benefit over the current one
>>93188635>>93188392How about this, make everything that's currently Breaching into Rending.Re-write Breaching to be "Breaching X" where "on a wound roll of a 6, worsen the armour save characteristic by X." That way you still have most weapons as all or nothing. You still have a rule that allows you to have a weapon that is either AP- or AP2 (like charnabal weapons) and have what should be rare weapons that don't always modify the save but do on relatively rare occasions. I stand by the old GW writers (I believe it was Jes Goodwyn) who said that the controlling player should get the final roll for their models. Having no save just isn't fun. Unless there's good reason for no save (like a Meltagun to the face). Even if you're just getting a 6+ with power armour when all is said and done, having SOME hope is better than no hope.Yes, Mortal Wounds were a mistake. So were Devastating Wounds.
>>93188760How about you just go play 40k if you like modifiers so much?
>>93176220What colour are conversion beamers, to you? Plasma is blue, volkite orange, grab purple. Melta is just choom. So what colour are conversion beamers?
>>93188635Hmm, yes, you'd probably need to tone down terminator invulnerables to a 5++ and 6++ in that system.Another benefit, it would actually make things like combat shields worth taking.>>93188800Modifiers are part of the true soul that was 2nd edition 40k. The all-or-nothing AP system is newfangled 3rd edition nonsense.On which subject, cover should modify the hit roll rather than provide a save, prove me wrong.
>>93188873Only if we bring back -1 to hit for long distance. And another -1 for having moved. And -1 for light cover, -2 for heavy cover.But a 6 to-hit still always succeeds. so Snap Shots are unaffected.
>>93188873>On which subject, cover should modify the hit roll rather than provide a save, prove me wrong.3 fucking editions of 40k where everything has to change every 6 months because the core rules are so retarded and you still insist that's the better way to do itI can't help you anonGo play 2nd edition if you like that shit so much
>>93188862Green is what I usually see when people do effects on them.
the tson novels are all ass
Does anyone have the instructions for the jetbike squad? Usual places they get uploaded have none, got some on the sprue off Ebay but didn't come with the booklet.
Got some spare points for my 2k list and trying to decide on what to spend it on between>5 seekers with various wargear and upgrades>10 veletaris with volkite & 2 veletaris hermes walkers that will have line cause of a RoWWhich should I spring for? My heart tells me the veletaris boys but I imagine the seekers is the more efficient pick
>>93189680Follow your heart. Even if it's not effective (no idea if it will be but probably not) you'll like what your heart tells you to do more.
>>93177792You're potentially a few month from plastic kryos, just wait a bit.
>>93189206Dang, I already used that for my plasma. This is what I get for going off reservation.
>>93188862They don't have any glowing parts so what are you even going to paint like that?
>>93190027It happens. I used red-orange for my plasma, so volkite gets a different color whenever I actually have any.
>>93189626A Thousand Sons is fine
What mental gymnastics can I perform to convince myself painting Imperalis Militia was worth it over Solar Auxilia? I'm 60 grenadiers and 6 russes deep, can't go back now.
>>93190194>>93190194>>93190194
>>93190172>carapace dudes and RussesYeah, no way to ever field those as SA...
>>93190172Militia are cheap, SA have wonky tercio mechanics and are way more expensive for something that still dies relatively easily
