File: Seghulerak.jpg (126 KB, 820x580)

126 KB JPG

I stole my BBEG from Elder Evils. Seghulerak just really stuck with me for some reason, so I started using her.

>>93185552
Thread Question:
Item customisation jank. What else you got?

>>93185541

>>93185592
Does True-Ore count?
Some True-Ore Obdurium is worth an high-level adventure in the Plane of Earth.

>>93185621
>Slightly harder adamantine with no new abilities
>worth a high-level campaign
There's a spell that does the same thing way easier anon.

>>93185649
>the magictech campaign setting is worse at magic weapons
Why doesn't that surprise me.
The idiots in that setting created an army of constructs for the sole purpose of waging warfare as disposable soldiers, and they decided to give those constructs a fuckton of unnecessary weaknesses to make their intentionally disposable soldiers slightly easier to heal.

>>93185592
My WIP item customization shitbrew

Masterwork items DC= Previous DC+10 instead of a fixed DC 20
Add masterwork weapon and armor properties with the default one being one of the options. Add another one for every 10 points a character beats the DC to craft a masterwork item.
Double the masterwork items’ cost for every 10 points rolled above the base DC.

Must have at least 3 improvements in order to reapeat an improvement.

Armor improvements
decrease armor check penalty -1
increase max dexterity +1
reduce arcane spell penalty 5%
reduce weight by 1/5
+2 hardness, +10 HP
+1 to AC

Weapon improvements
penetrates one point of DR (piercing weapons and ammunition only)
Increase the weapon damage die by one step
+1 to AC when fighting defensively
always deal at least half the damage die in damage
always deals 1 max weapon die damage on critical hits (roll the second as normal)
substances applied to a weapon last an additional hit
1d4 bleeding damage on critical hits (piercing weapons and ammunition only)
+2 hardness, +10 HP
+1 to hit
+1 to damage


So for armor improvements 1 improvement= 150 x 1 * 2 = 150, 2 improvements= 150 x 2 * 2 = 600, 3 improvements= 150 x 3 * 2 = 1350, 4 improvements= 150 x 4 * 2 = 2400,
5 improvements= 150 x 5 * 2 = 3750, 6 improvements= 150 x 6 * 2 = 5400

So for armor improvements 1 improvement= 300 x 1 * 2 = 300, 2 improvements= 300 x 2 * 2 = 1200, 3 improvements= 300 x 3 * 2 = 2700, 4 improvements= 300 x 4 * 2 = 4800,
5 improvements= 300 x 5 * 2 = 7500, 6 improvements= 300 x 6 * 2 = 10800

>>93185592
Switching from weapons to armor, it's entirely possible to get an armor check penalty lower than zero with the various materials, >+1 masterwork, and artisan qualties rolling around.
What happens when you do that shouldmake your penalty negative, meaning you'd get a bonus to armor skill-penalty skill while wearing it.
No fancy third party shit needed either, reducing ACP by 8 with mithral and item of legend(mithral has a reduction cap, item of legend does Not)

>>93185713
I think anon means published, not homebrew.

>>93185676
You can still enchant the weapon and treat it with additional stuff you have (say, Hardening).
60 hardness before enhancement is no joke if you face enemies with Sunder.
Unless I am mistaken, 3.5 eliminated the 3.0 rule that you need an equal enhancement to sunder a given magic weapon.

>>93185737
my bad. from published, mercurial was mentioned before and it's pretty cool and busted to increase the crit modifier by one in certain builds

>>93185713
I love most of these anon but what is this
>always deal at least half the damage die in damage
it seems way stronger than
>penetrates one point of DR (piercing weapons and ammunition only)
And what's the fluff of
>substances applied to a weapon last an additional hit

>>93185768
>Unless I am mistaken, 3.5 eliminated the 3.0 rule that you need an equal enhancement to sunder a given magic weapon.
Yes, but passed a certain point it's not a smart use of actions anymore. No materials ignore hardness greater than 20, and enhancement bonuses increase hardness/hp to ludicrous levels.
A +10 item is hardness +20 and +100 hp whether it's a +5 with however many abilities or +1 with however many abilities. At that point the sunder is essentially trying to kill another character's worth of hp, by the time they succeed they're likely already dead.

>>93185737
I did, but I'll take a look at homebrew too.

>>93185838
>it's not a smart use of actions anymore
It can be for a big brute monster, especially for the only weapon that can harm it.
Enhancements increase by 2 per +1 point.
>A +10 item is hardness +20 and +100 hp whether it's a +5 with however many abilities or +1 with however many abilities
This is incorrect, only the actual enhancement (+1, +2, +3 ..) improves the HPs.

>>93185786
>always deal at least half the damage die in damage
yeah it's strong, but the time i have seen it used it didn't break the game either. I was thinking of a second tier of stronger enhancements that require a minimum of 3 before they can get selected and this to be one of them

it seems way stronger than
>penetrates one point of DR (piercing weapons and ammunition only)
yeah, as i said above it probably is, but i was also going for a theme of armor penetrating arrows, maybe the DR bypassed could get bumped up to 2

And what's the fluff of
>substances applied to a weapon last an additional hit
this is for poisoned weapons like a dagger having grooves and small niches holding more poison and applying it to a second hit.
Or holy water to a paladin's sword for example. Burning oil as well.
It's mostly a cool thematic ability. not really a strong one

>>93185870
Thank you anon. The fluff for question 3 is completely on point for me.

>>93185866
>This is incorrect, only the actual enhancement (+1, +2, +3 ..) improves the HPs.
Where does it say that?

Do we know what spells beyong level 9 look like?

>>93185930
Epic spells?

>>93185930
Sure.

2e has 10th+ level spells, and 2e's 1-9th level spells aren't wildly different than 3e's.

3e has its own epic magic subsystem.

I believe there are some 2e high magic rituals that got converted to 3e as well

>>93185913
In the core rules?
Are you sure you aren't mixing up enhancement and enchantments?

>>93185592
If the thread is for the best mundane items.
It's possible make non-magical versions(as in work the same, but are unaffected by AMF, dead magic, etc) of any and every magic item with no caster level or spell requirements thanks to a feat called Create Device in ravenloft: Legacy of the Blood
Create Device acts like any one magic item creation feat, and you can gain it multiple times to replicate multiple feats.

>>93185930
ELH has 2.
You can buy through feats slots above level 9th for your quickened twinned time stop.
Then you have a wonderful and utterly failed epic spells system that is "true" 10th level spells.

>>93185961
>In the core rules?
Where in the core rules?

>>93185976
It's faster to look in the FAQs
>A magic item gains extra hardness and hit points only for
the enhancement bonus that it actually has, not for the effective
enhancement bonus used to calculate its price. For example, a
+1 flaming burst longsword costs as much as a +3 longsword.
A +1 flaming burst longsword has hardness 12 and 15 hit
points whereas a +3 longsword has hardness 16 and 35 hit
points.
http://dnd.etherealspheres.com/eBooks/DnD_3.5/core/Main35FAQv02272004.pdf

>>93185974
>Then you have a wonderful and utterly failed epic spells system that is "true" 10th level spells.
Those aren't true 10th level spells.
true 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells weren't carried over from 2nd edition, epic "spells" are subset of ritual magic.

>>93185984
>It's faster to look in the FAQs
opinion discarded.
The faq is homebrew. It carries no actual weight on the rules, even officially.

>>93185984
>It's faster to look in the FAQs
I wouldn't use the faq anon, it was panned even by WotC.

By the way, the elvish craftsmen mentioned last thread take two weeks rather than one per check, instead of the claimed one decade; while that is in the book, it is actually for enhancing alchemical items instead. As if alchemy wasn't useless enough.

>>93185995
>>93186003
Grasping at straws.
Also in Exploration:
>Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons
>Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item’s hit points.
>enhancement bonus
Never talks about the total. It's the number behind the plus.

>>93185838
>>93185866
>>93185961
I was originally in disagreement, but I just checked the DMG and PHB, and I think the first anon may be right.
The PHB defines how magic affects hardness, and it makes no distinction between enhancements from straight bonuses or special abilities. The DMG tells us to reference the PHB where it comes to hardness rules.

>>93186067
Also in Arms and Armor
>Magic Armor and Shield Special Ability Descriptions
>Most magic armor and shields only have enhancement bonuses. Such items can ALSO have one or more of the special abilities detailed below.
>Armor or a shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

Convinced yet?

>>93186078
Isn't arms and armor 3e?

>>93186067
>>93186074
Which is it? Make up you damn Minds

>>93186087
Read the book yourself anon, these idiots are going to be skub-warring about this all thread.

>>93185692
Wouldn't making that many golems be expensive as fuck?

>>93186087
This >>93186078
is consistent with this >>93186067
I posted both.

>>93185973
That requires you to be in ravenloft at some point to acquire anon.
I don't think it's going to be worth the cost.

>>93185731
Does a negative-negative become a positive in D&D math?

>>93185990
If they can be mechanically reduced to conventional actions to cast, and functionally are viable and cast as spells with spell-slots generated by your character's stats (albeit not the usual ones) then what's the part of them being a ritual subset that makes their not being "leveled spells" matter?

>>93185592
If 3rd party is allowed like mongoose from last thread, then mechanika from iron kingdoms are fucking awesome.
You can essentially replicate any magic item for less than half the price(though they're powered/charged items now rather than x/day, but you can charge them yourself with spell slots using a portable charging station).
Best hing out of the setting are the mechanikal prosthetics. By prelacing all your limbs, you can change you base stats for STR/DEX to 20/18 before enhancement/inherent/level bonuses. Make those your dump stats and borg out! Even better, they count as weapons for the purposes of enhancement and ilithid weapon grafts.

Another cool one is Chaositech. The book contains a shit ton of chaos-based items and grafts that all function non-magically(though they use raw chaos, which is rather dangerous). The mutant template is cool too and opens up the ability to play an X-man in D&D.

>>93185990
>true 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells weren't carried over from 2nd edition,
tall us more anon.
Were they stronger than Wish?

>>93186159
Practically? Nothing.
Lore-wise? You're missing out on a lot of power. The old 10-12th level spells didn't require going through the spellcraft check song and dance, plus the were just stronger over all than what you can get for a 1-action, no-group-mitigating-factors epic spell.
They could also do things epic spells just can't. The only known 12th level spell allowed you to steal a god's divinity. There's no epic seed for that.

>>93186198
Yes, by a lot.

>>93186168
Grafts are pretty awesome(at least the one not from eberron). Would that still count for the thread's "item customization jank"?

>>93185692
>>93186211
>eberrons magic weapons suck
>eberrons grafts suck
Why the fuck does anyone play eberron?

>>93186200
I want to preface that I never got to play 2e far enough to Get to those kinds of spells, but I thought you needed to make some variety of skill check to add spells to your spell books even in that edition, which is mainly where the spellcraft check came into play anyway; it was part of the development process, not the act of 'casting it.

I also doubt that replicating Karsus' Folly would be a single spell-seed rather than a combination of several, though I'll admit the closest I've seen would be 3rd party in the Immortal's Handbook rather than connected officially.

>>93186217
Loli pope.

>>93186264
From the SRD anon:

Even if the epic spell has been developed and an epic spell slot is available, successfully casting an epic spell isn’t assured. The caster’s Spellcraft skill modifier is vital for casting an epic spell. To cast an epic spell, a spellcaster makes a Spellcraft check against the epic spell’s Spellcraft DC. If the check succeeds, the spell is cast. If the caster fails the check, the epic spell fizzles and the epic spell slot is used for the day.

You need to make the epic spell check every time you cast it.

>>93186282
To add to that: Bare foot loli pope.

>>93186282
>>93186291
I HAVE BEEN CONVERTED!
...
Which religion is this?

>>93186321
Church of Silver flame, where the "good" afterlife is burning forever in the prison of an archdevil. Also the only religion in eberron that is physically proven to be real and not just some hippie's fever-dream.

>>93186367
Eh, I was going to hell anyway.

>>93185990
Aren't all the "real" 10+ level spell faerun specific? You wouldn't even be able to touch them without some kind of why to work around weave-nerfs.

File: Erandis Vol fan concept.jpg (70 KB, 480x800)

70 KB JPG

>>93186217
The elemental graft that can keep you from drowning is very nice.

Most of the others aren't as good as the Fiend Folio ones.

>>93186282
Also some people think Erandis Vol couldn't have aged very much before becoming a Lich because the entirety of elven and dragonkind were hunting her down to lynch as a misegination baby. Though all official art of her shows an adult body, coping lolicons claim it's a projection.

>>93186495
So everyone is very lucky that the sorcerer-kings are trapped on athas and not able to murder-rape the gods because they found some old notes in a faerunian ruin?

>>93186525
>before becoming a Lich
Why would people care about her age before becoming a cross between a grandma and a moldy sandwich? Either way, she's made of beef jerky now.

>>93186289
>>93186525
>Erandis Vol
On that note, don't half dragons with dragon-marks get 1/day epic spells as SLA?
Do epic SLA need a spellcraft check?

>>93186557
I don't know she's the only one I know of, and too (un)dead to use it.


>>93186549
So they can get their loli, bacon, *and* their hag fetish catered to?

I dunno, I guess people just assuming she'd turn back given that's her end goal, getting back to real life.

>>93186579
>I dunno, I guess people just assuming she'd turn back given that's her end goal, getting back to real life.
I just googled and she's over a thousand years old and still failing at what takes a decent cleric one spell. I don't think she's getting there any time soon.

>>93186367
Isn't the SF Lawful Good? My Eberron is (obviously) cursory, is this another le subverted expectations?

>>93186621
Only one cleric (Lolipope) CAN do that in the setting. And only in the church of the silver flame. Also she needs to find her Phylactery, it's a special one that can recreate her anywhere safe on the planet and her mother who actually lichified her never told anyone, even her, where it was.

>>93186637
You become part of the fire holding the evil back, it doesn't hurt IIRC.

>>93186637
That's the joke. The difference between the silverflame afterlife and hell is that you're getting torture alongside the sealed evil in hell and part of the seal keeping the evil trapped in the silverflame. The afterlife is still painful burning agony either way, but you get to feel good about yourself in the later case.
They're also the only proven "real" religion in eberron, because the silverflame devil-seal thing is actually a place you can just walk to.

>>93186666
I don't recall it hurting, you wouldn't be making things up to make people not want to join the flame would you Supersatan?

Also IIRC souls otherwise go to Dolurth which is like misty and dark and then disappear after a while.

>>93186639
>Also she needs to find her Phylactery
No she doesn't. just being part of the undead type means resurrection/true resurrection revert you back to living
Under the undead type:
>Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

Erandis Vol basically wasted millenia on a pointless quest that ended up raising the needed caster level to rez herself to to the ballpark of 360.

>>93186557
I don't think it's ever specified what the exact mechanics of Erandis' dragonmark were, only that it was the strongest in history and best compared to a magical reactor. Baring in mind that, during the War of the Mark, there were dragonmarks powerful enough to destroy countries single-handedly, all of which would be weaker than hers, it'd be entirely fair to stat it with epic spells.

>>93186703
>raising the needed caster level to rez herself to to the ballpark of 360
Holy Shit. Nothing south of either hyper-opimized ultra-casters or DM fiat can help her now

>>93186703
>Erandis Vol basically wasted millenia on a pointless quest that ended up raising the needed caster level to rez herself to to the ballpark of 360.
Huh? I thought time dead didn't matter once you got to True Resurrection.

And I dunno I might consider that a Lich's actual portion able to get resurrected would be the Phylactery.

>>93186703
>>93186719
>>93186733
Or MAYBE Wish/Miracle carefully worded to requalify her for it followed by TR.

Looks like I was wrong 10 years per CL.

>>93186733
true rez has a cap of 10 years per caster level. For most people,2 centuries of being dead before rez expires is plenty.
Erandis has been dead for 3,598+ years.

>>93186746
Falls under "greater effects", so it can be assumed not to work. Remember that the default assumption of wish is malevolent GM, the rules explicitly encourage fucking with the person making the wish if they invoke the greater effects clause.
Miracle is kind of fucked in eberron because gods aren't real there. In faerun, a cleric can use miracle to get their Deity's attention and ask them to use the "Gift of Life" salient divine ability on their behalf, but their are no real gods in eberron and thus no divine salient abilities.

>>93186774
So the easiest solution is take her to a different setting and pay a cleric to magic-message their god?

>>93186784
...yes actually. It'd only take a hop through the world serpent in and within an hour you'd be negotiating with a god for the kind of quest needed to pay for the rezzing the lich.

>>93186774
>because gods aren't real there
Technically, they are, they're just completely absentee and don't care. They're definitely real though, because a few of them are ascended mortals. There's also the silver fire, however you want to count that (it's pretty godly, but also literally a fire).

>>93186819
They aren't really helpful in any practical sense though.
>>93186809
It's funny how many "epic", setting-defining quests become stupid and inconsequential in context when you remember D&D is a multiverse. A lot of them end with "the next place over has the solution to all our problems at every dollar store".

>>93186845
There's also the entire continent of epic spellcaster dragons. Theoretically, you could convince an evil one to turn traitor and revive her. Not as easy as casting plane shift, but an in-setting option.

>>93186774
>>93186819
Their existence is left vague.

>>93186774
I'm not sure amping up another spell or de-aging a corpse would count. It's fairly minor time manipulation.

>>93186862
EVERY dragon wants her dead. Unless her father's secretly alive somewhere imprisoned. Could MAYBE convince one that Resurrecting her would give it the chance to kill her for real and then somehow kill it off before it can get to part2.

>>93186845
I mean it wasn't till 4e or 5e that Eberron got integrated into the wheel. Before that it wasn't a prime, it had its own multiverse.

>>93186862
The spellcraft DC for that epic spell would be DC 366 minimum due to how "time dead" adds to the Life epic seed DC. You'd either need a shit ton of high level casters working together or a stupidly long casting time. Both those things are likely to get you noticed before completing the ritual.

>>93186920
>I'm not sure amping up another spell or de-aging a corpse would count. It's fairly minor time manipulation
doesn't matter, greater effects aren't determined by power, they're determined by if they're in the listed effects of miracle/wish. Reversing time isn't in the always working effect list.
>I mean it wasn't till 4e or 5e that Eberron got integrated into the wheel. Before that it wasn't a prime, it had its own multiverse.
Doesn't matter, still a visitable part of spelljammer and planescape in the lore. The world serpent inn has a door specifically dedicated to travelling there in the official 3.5 article on it.
As far as the greater D&D multiverse is concerned, it's easy to get to eberron. It's actually more difficult to get to dragonlance than eberron.

>>93186953
>Doesn't matter, still a visitable part of spelljammer and planescape in the lore. The world serpent inn has a door specifically dedicated to travelling there in the official 3.5 article on it.
>As far as the greater D&D multiverse is concerned, it's easy to get to eberron. It's actually more difficult to get to dragonlance than eberron.
Huh, I could have sworn it was intended to not be that way and that it only got a Crystal Sphere in 5e. Though the door was suggested yeah.

>>93186953
It might also need to just be a crafted spell.

Also wait,
>>93186703
>>Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
This doesn't actually say it cares how long they've been UNdead. It just turns them back into living creatures full stop.

>>93186527
Pretty much. Karsus' Folly likely would have worked perfectly if the retard hadn't chosen to target the god of magic that was keeping magic working properly. He died before the spell finished going off, killing that incarnation of Mystra and himself in the process.

>>93187593
So the entire netherese empire could be saved by just going back and telling karsus to target someone else as to use against the phearim? If karsus targeted Jergal, then faerun would have better magictech than eberron, the highest tiers of magic in the modern age, and wouldn't be dealing with shitheads like myrkul, bhaal, and bane?
on an unrelated note, Teleport through time is an available spell in 3.5.

>>93186202
Could you name a few?

>>93189385
>Teleport through time
That one could be on par with Wish as far as 9th levels go.
Power and FP (Fuckup Potential).

>>93189385
This is assuming Karsus wouldn't fuck up in some other horrifying way, a dangerous assumption where Magic Users are involved.

>>93189650
Karsus isn't an idiot. He gets memed a lot, but he ruled a citystate for hundreds of years as wizard-king during a massive catastrophe and only has one notable fuck-up(it just happened to be the greatest fuck-up anyone has ever performed until then and since. Karsus does not do thing half-assed).
He likely would have been fine for the next thousand or so if he didn't win first place in the hall of famous mistakes.

>>93189510
One of the notable 11th level spell is the ability to seal or pierce entire crystal spheres.
The epic magic equivalent would have a Spellcraft DC of 2.591424e+19 just from the shear area affected.

>>93189385
>saved
Probably not. They were also in the middle of a giant civil war, were run by self absorbed lunatics, didn't even acknowledge the phaerimm threat that devastated their landscape, and were in the middle of a peasant uprising because the bottom 80% of their population was starving. Karsus would have successfully ascended to godhood, but he was also insane and only really gave a fuck about magic research. So, you'd just have a new mad god of magical innovations. I doubt he would have lifted a finger to save Netheril from themselves. He started a civil war *for sport*.

>>93189385
Also, arcane age books like netheril and cormanthyr go in depth on the restrictions on time travel in faerun. If you somehow did alter history, you'd create a new plane as a result.

>>93190025
He was brilliant but also scatterbrained and insane. Have you read the Netheril Trilogy?

>>93190025
IIRC Karsus delegated everything related to runnig the city, while he focused on magical research.

>>93186527
I think the sorcerer-kings' 10th level magic rely on psionics as well?

>>93186920
>>93186953
>>93187045
I think I heard the creator said in his website that the Eberron campaign was stuck in the Ethereal Plane, so no Crystal Sphere/spelljamming if that's the case.

>>93191292
No. The psion/magic fusion powers are different. They're something called psionic enhancements(in 3e, it lets them dobshit like put metapsionics on magic, and unlike metamagic, metapsionics can self-stack)

>>93191333
He can say what he wants, he's beholden to WotC since own the setting.
You may as well talk about what george lucas thinks about star wars.

>>93191418
>They're something called psionic enhancements(
Not that anon but, what the fuck?
That's a thing that exists?
Holy shit.

>>93191433
>You may as well talk about what george lucas thinks about star wars.
...Probably more acceptable than whatever Disney thinks.

>>93191437
>Holy shit
In reaction to how metapsionics self-stacking or putting the on magic.
For the OP dragon mages, absolutely. Putting metapsionic on magic is explicitely something they can do whether you're using the WotC official material on dark sun(where its a feat only sorcerer kings can take) or the material on athas.org(where it's a class feature).
Metapsionic feat are the only "meta" feats misding the "only apply once" text like the old version of metabreath feats. Unlike metabreath feats, they never got a nerfbat update and were given the greenlight to self-stack on the faq(if that matters). Their limiting factor is psionic focus charges instead(unless you're an ardent, in which case may the gods have mercy on the souls of your enemies)

>>93191525
Yes, but it'll still be homebrew. If he wanted his baby to stay safe, he shouldn't have sold it to the EA of cartoons/movies.

>>93190121
>The epic magic equivalent would have a Spellcraft DC of 2.591424e+19 just from the shear area affected.
w-we can optimize t-that

>>93191418
>unlike metamagic, metapsionics can self-stack
what do you mean chief

>>93191707
see this anon: >>93191570

>>93191981
Question - isn't there already an hard limit with the psionic focus expenditure?

>>93191707
I believe anon means that if you use Empower Power and a rediculously large source of psionic focus, you can keep adding +50% to variable numeric effects until you hit your cap for manifester level.
A 20th level Ardent with dominant ideal can use empower power on any power multiple times, but that's largely a waste of power points because powers that do damage generally get a better return on augmentations than Empower gives.
However, if said ardent was a sorcerer-king and could put empower power on a spell, then said spell's damage dice would(generally) automatically equal their caster level and that same sorcerer king could use their Entire manifester level for psionic empowerment.

To math that out: The suggested Minimum caster and manifester level for Sorcerer Kings is 22 to both. This means a 64 HD sorcerer-king ardent would be throwing around shit like 120d6 fireballs from 3rd level spell-slots without any psionitheurge, mind-mage, or reserves of strength shenanigans.

>>93192943
You can get more sources of psionic focus, like through Psicrystal Containment.

>>93192943
Yes and No. You can expend as much psionic focus as you want, but you can only hold 1 psionic focus.
There are 2 tricks around this.
1. Psicrystal containment. You can expend your psicrystals containment whenever you would voluntarily or be forced to use your own. This normally gets you 2 expenitures of focus a round, unless you use high-optimization tricks for multiple psicrystals, then the max is around 9 at level 20.
2. Be an ardent. The 10th level alternate class feature for ardent allows you to pick a mantle and apply metapsionics to powers from that mantle without needing to expend focus at all.

>>93191525
IIRC Lucas Canon is limited to the main 6 films and the 2007 3d show Lucas directly worked on. Nothing else counts. I remember that 2007 show resulted in a falling out with whomever they contracted to write the mandalorian novels, because they put a ton of work into consistency, told them their work was canon and then Filoni and Lucas just tossed it all in the bin and made a totally different mandolin culture on Mandalore.

>>93191433
Depends on the specifics of the licencing, but in this case you're probable right. Dragonlance is not under the complete control of Hasbro, and Greenwood has some amount of line-editing canon authority, which is why the wiki will take unpublished Ed-statements on twitter or candle keep or YouTube as canon.

>>93193027
>2. Be an ardent. The 10th level alternate class feature for ardent allows you to pick a mantle and apply metapsionics to powers from that mantle without needing to expend focus at all.
I wasn't aware of this one.
Thanks.

Whoever brought up Dragon #258 last thread, thank you. Not only the master crafting article is neat, there's a ton of other cool content I ignored for whatever reason.

Oh Dragon, you've been gone for so long and you still keep on giving.

>>93192971
>>93193027
Why is anon obsessed with ardents? Metamixture(the feat[WotC] or class feature[Athas.org], that allows metapsionic on magic) allows dragon-kings to apply metapsionics to spells as a free action without expending psionic focus(power point limits still apply though). The 120d6 fireballs can come from a psion, wilder, or erudite dragon king.

Meanwhile, this is giving me ideas for the Cerebremancer when I get around to it.

>>93193295
>allows dragon-kings to apply metapsionics to spells as a free action without expending psionic focus
Jesus Fuck. How are you supposed to kill these things?

>>93193274
You mean #358?

>>93193274
>>93193308
Oh right, that was what the thread to
pic was originally wasn't it?
Since anon brought up artificial limbs and grafts: >>93186168 is there enough material on grafts, implants, etc to build a cyberpunk setting based on magic(yes I know d20 future exists, but I want to ignore it for this discussion)

>>93193304
You aren't, Borys WILL be better prepared than you because he WILL be smarter than you. Just a holdover of TSR-era "well yes, but actually no" regarding PCs doing anything to the status quo.

>>93193304
You don't. Dragon kings aren't the stand-ins for dragons in their setting, they're stand-ins for Gods. They literally radiate so much arcane magic that have military police that gain spells from their presence alone.

>>93193304
Scry and die or epic spells more or less. Basically if they get a chance to hit you back you are fucked. So you use something like a red wizard souped up on circle magic and slap Unname on the dragon after like 3 months of preparation.

Basically you don't kill them in a fight. You kill them only by being the scummiest sonovabitch to live.

>>93193345
Isn't that literally just what Iron Kingdoms is by itself? If that's not enough, throw in some dragonmech for giant-robots fighting space-dragons.

>>93193397
>giant-robots fighting space-dragons.
Wait... was the plot of pacific rim stolen from a D&D supplement?

>Legend lore: When completed, the divination brings legends (if any) about the person, place, or things to your mind. These may be legends that are still current, legends that have been forgotten, or even information that has never been generally known. If the person, place, or thing is not of legendary importance, you gain no information. As a rule of thumb, characters who are 11th level and higher are “legendary,” as are the sorts of creatures they contend with, the major magic items they wield, and the places where they perform their key deeds.

Now that's a good level of expectations for a campaign.

>>93193412
Mechagodzilla was in the 70s, people have been doing this shit for decades

>>93193394
Not sure this would work. Dragon kings are the only NPCs I've seen where the rules explicitly recommend the dm optimize. Those fuckers are going to have crafted contingencies, arcane spell engines, circle magic and watever other bullshit the tippyverse posters on giantitp forums have wet dreams about.

>>93185692
Ebberon's war trolls (Monster Manual III) were their only good invention. DR 5/adamantine, spell resistance, dazing blow, 10 Int and martial weapons/medium armor proficiency.

>>93193304
To put what anons above were saying about 120d6 3rd level spells into further context, the dragon kings get an exlusive class that lets them cast 1 spell and manifest 1 power, both up to 5th level, as free actions in addition to a full attack. These fuckers can use shivering touch to remove your rogue's dexterity score in the same turn that they just made your barbarian into a smoothy and still have their choice of power to fry the wizard's brain, all in one turn.

>>93193483
So, in a white-room fight between the dragon-king and the statted out deities, who would win?

>>93193471
That should have been a template to put it out of the hands of polymorph, to be honest.

>>93193345
You've already got a fantastic source of bioware implants in chaositech that anon mentioned: >>93186168 .the book has a number of brain implants that can to anything from manipulating the implanted's personality, to giving them skill bonuses, boosting mental stats, granting feats etc.
Iron kingdoms cybernetics stand-ins have already been mentioned.
Fiend folio and book of madness have grafts, further books like High Psionics Fleshcrafting and The quintessential Drow have even more bioware to mess with.
Changing gears, and while eberron's grafts are pathetic, their symbionts are where their shit really shines(they're intelligent items with their own turn and you automatically share personal spells with like a familiar. This means spells that grant natural attacks can get crazy if you have a lot of them. There's also a feat that makes every symbiont grant you extra health). There are even a kind of expension to this with life-shaped items from dark-sun(life shaper's handbook from athas.org) which are basically plant-symbionts with their own slot system independent of your magic item slots.

>>93193584
This is certainly enough to build any setting where average people can get tricked-out or parted-out like an underground car-shop. I guess that is true to most cyberpunk settings...

>>93193308
Yup that's right, thanks.

>>93193603
I don't think "cyber"-punk is the right word, but the fuck would you even call this? Magic-punk sounds to retarded and google isn't really helpful, "aetherpunk" doesn't apply, manapunk doesn't apply... Spellpunk? Spells aren't really important in the grafts or giant clockwork robot stuff...

>>93193624
>>93193624
To throw another wrench into the works: The aesthetic would probably lean heavily victorian with all the clockwork and steam tech eberron, iron kingdoms, and dragonmech use. It'd also probably be gothic and/or dying earth if any magic from ravenloft or athas get thrown into the mix(which it will if you use life-shaping). So your gothic-neo-medieval-victorian-magic-cyberpunk setting is even harder to summarize.

Cry of Ysgard
>You call 2d4 bariaur defenders of Ysgard (see Chapter 8: Monsters) from the plains of Ysgard to your location. They serve you for up to a year, and you may dismiss them at any time.
>No matter how many times you cast this spell, you can control no more than cast four bariaur rangers; others are released from service and return to Ysgard immediately. You choose which creatures to release

Why would it allow you to summon up to 8 at a time if anything over 4 are going to immediately be sent right back?
It also looks like it was written by 2 different people - first part is referencing the name of the monster, the second part refers to their class.
Has there been any errata or clarifications about this spell?

>>93193713
>Cry of Ysgard
It's from book of exalted deeds anon, of course it's complete crap.

>>93193483
Throw in the draconomicon metabreath, chief

>>93193992
Metabreath feats got the nerf hammer in monster manual 4. It's fucking weird the psionics were the only one allowed to keep their self-stacking metas

>>93193713
I suppose you can pick which 4 to keep if the GM determines which 8 you summon initially

>>93194252
Presumably, the Augmentation tradeoff and Psionic Focus bottlenecks were deemed sufficient, with Dominant Ideal being narrow enough to be "reasonable".

>>93194252
Didn't they just put Lingering and Clinging there?

>>93194252
Just out of curiosity, how many people still give a shit about the WotC nerf-by-reprint rules, rather than just "DM says which version we're using"?

>>93194684
Most DMs I've seen are happy to use the nerfs as long as they don't break something important, unfortunately

Weird thread to ask but does anyone have th 4e DUNGEON mag? I've only really found Dragon for that era.


(And even the 3.5 and before dungeon stuff is much less convenient to DL than the dragon was off archive)

>>93194840
4e gen dead again? Best of luck, checked my files and all I've got is the core books.

>>93194840
did you try the-eye.eu ?

Got invited to a 3.5 game. The party lacks a cleric. I haven't played in like 20 years so I have some questions.
I was thinking of going DMM, but is this considered extra cheesy or powergamey?

>>93195336
Only if you're stacking Turning pools to pump out Persists or something.

File: 2137e6ee2e9efeb6d63755f1b(...).jpg (561 KB, 2048x1547)

561 KB JPG

What are the most reliable ways to circumvent an enemy spellcaster hiding behind Clone, Astral Projection, or both, and to kill said caster for good?

Acquiring and using a githyanki silver sword will be difficult.

>>93195336
What >>93195356 said.
I'm playing a Cleric with 2 turning pools and one nightstick and one Extra Turning Feat. With my charisma I have a total of 32 turn attempts, meaning that I can persist 5 spells and have a couple of extra turnings for Smites and Law Devotion.
I think that's a pretty cheesy.
Granted, my character is gimped in other areas. He already has almost full BAB for his level and has sacrificed 2 caster levels so far, and I did use four of my 6 feats (Extend, Persist, DMM, Extra Turning), but still, Divine Power, Recitation, Elation, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, hell, Holy Transformation and even Cloud of Knives are all things that I can decide to just have up all day.
The fact that the Cleric knows his whole god damn spell list makes persist incredible on a long campaign.
Of course, cheese is relative to the other characters and the challenges you are facing, as well as how you choose to play your character.
Are the other players cheesy?

>>93194271
Would that ever really matter, except for whatever names one gives?
>Immediately
actually this part implies you wouldn't even get to find that out before having to choose.
The way the spell is mis-phrased, I wondered if it was written for 3.0 or something and than some copy-pasted the old version instead of the 3.5 update.
Call Faithful Servants limits to HD per level.
By the way, would Cry of Ysgard block Call Faithful Servants?
The later contains this:
>No matter how many times you cast this spell, you can control no more than 2 HD worth of celestials per caster level. If you exceed this number, all the newly called creatures fall under your control, and any excess servants from previous castings return to their home plane.

The Bariaur Defenders are also 'celestial servants'
>>93194772
I am the DM in my game and because this is my first game, I usually assume that if this was nerfed, there must have been a reason for it.

>>93195554
>I am the DM in my game and because this is my first game, I usually assume that if this was nerfed, there must have been a reason for it.
Sometimes yes. Often no, not really.

My DMing occasionally surprises new people because outside of the PHB, I default to 'earlier printing is the one I'm using' unless the players ask me about something and it looks like it will actually be a problem. It's normally fine. But, I also think the design quality of 3e gradually went downhill as all the main devs quit and they switched to freelancers.

>>93195392
If the person is Astral Projecting then finding the the helpless body and stabbing it would kill him or her.

>>93195970
I remember something about Gythianki Silver Swords and severing the astral cords from playing Neverwinter Nights 2.
What does that do to the caster?

>>93196153
It kills them but getting a Gythianki Silver Sword is not a easy task and Gythianki really don't like it when someone not Gythianki has their silver swords

>>93196279
Oh please, they can't even get over level 16.

>>93194840
I don't think I have t but I'm in the middle of going through old backups across external hard drives and some of them are old enough that I might have them.

I have all the 4e artwork you used to be able to download from DDI in an art folder I came across. I might even have CBuilder and CBloader. No idea if I have the 4e dragon and dungeon. I did not like 4e much and didn't play it a whole lot.

>>93195392
Manic jar works well with the former. Soul can't hop into a new clone body if you have their soul.

>>93195356
>>93195495
Well shit, yeah I was going to go persist. I don't believe in the Stormwind fallacy and am generally a pretty good roleplayer, but I also like to play strong characters. I do understand that being super powerful can be a pain for other players and the DM regardless of roleplay, though. For what it's worth I'll be using the persist for buffing the party instead of myself. I did pick up smoking armor spikes and a called tower shield so maybe it's going a bit heavy on the powergame side.

I'll think about it. If you have any fun ideas for a support character that isn't so cheesy I'm all ears.

>>93193496
Deities. Because they don't die. Dragon Kings can kill their avatars or even bodies but short of killing all of their followers or using Unname, or some epic spells or artifact, you can't kill a god. It doesn't matter how many times dragon king can slap a god eventually he will make a mistake.

Deities also can do shit like shoot someone from 10+ miles and other bullshit.

>>93195392
Thinaun weapons work as long as caster exposes his soul. And is much easier to acquire than Silver Sword. Would stop cloning, reincarnation and other similar bullshit.

Then I'd recommend to use the caster soul as an ingredient for crafting a magic item. Preferably expandable one. Using it up and then burning the item and spreading its ashes over different rivers. Should be solid enough that without divine help it would be pretty hard to bring the motherfucker back.

>>93197061
>For what it's worth I'll be using the persist for buffing the party instead of myself.
That's mostly what my character does. And he doesn't just persist everything he can as soon as he wakes up.
Usually it's divine power in the morning and recitation after we start depleting the party's resources. Other spells are persisted mostly in preparation to whatever mess we are a out to get ourselves in since the party has a knack for deviating from whatever main objective and getting into some crazy dangerous tangents.
As the DM said, "you guys told the prince you'd do a thing. Now you are on the side quest of a sidequest. Congratulations"
lol
And we are lvl 13 to 14 characters, so there's that too.
Anyhow. Just don't go nova on buffing and you'll be fine. Find other cool uses for all those turning attempts, even better if it's a way to heal the party since they'll most likely love it despite being possibly the worst use of your resources.
It's all about having fun while not ruining the other player's and the dm's own fun.

>>93197061
Don't be too concerned about being too strong, most optimized builds have a couple massive glaring weaknesses.
The persist build tends to get boned by anyone who knows dispel magic for example.
It's still a tough balance. It's equally dumb to consistently prevent a player's gimmick in every fight when they crafted their entire build around in, that's just excessively punishing.
A good DM will be able to turn fights into jojo-style puzzles where the party has to work to get the gimmick-build into position to use their gimmick to finish the fight rather than have it end the fight on round 1 or punish the player by preventing them from using the gimmick at all.

>>93198691
>The persist build tends to get boned by anyone who knows dispel magic for example.
They're less weak to that than most because that build leans towards caster level boosts and anti-dispel options. Bead of Karma, orange Ioun Stone, candle of invocation, Spell Girding, etc. Doesn't do that much against Disjunction but literally everyone but those with contingency spells or Celerity or the like are fucked by disjunction.

>>93199789
Also doesn't do much against an anti-magic field. I had a GM throw a golem with an AMF item at us once, even he was shocked when we almost had a TPK on an enemy 4 CR below our party's challenge rating.

>>93185731
It's a penalty, not a modifier. So it can only ever be negative.

>>93200126
Neither do martials. Gotta be an orb spammer, a ToB class, or a rogue with marbles, flasks, and a wand of golemstrike to do much in that environment.

>>93200243
Where's penalty defined in the dmg?

>>93200340
>wand of golemstrike
Pretty sure the AMF would fuck that strategy completely. The ToB class isn't completely safe either, many of their maneuvers are supernatural abilities.

>>93200340
Specialist martial builds would be fine. Uberchargers, Trippers, and karmicstrike/roblar's gambit builds would wreck that thing without issues.

>>93199789
I was wondering how to deal with dispells.
>>93195495
>with 2 turning pools
What do you mean extra turning pools? I thought stuff like Elemental Turning didn't count.


>>93197061
Smoking armor spikes?

>>93200529
It applies to you, not the projectile. So long as you're not in the AMF you're free to sneak attack away.

>>93200616
>What do you mean extra turning pools?
Azurin Cleric gives Channel Incarnum that's explicitly [Divine]-feat fuel, then some PRCs grant Turn or Rebuke. The Necromancy Domain from Dragonlance Campaign Setting also grants a Rebuke pool.

>>93200708
It's dragonlance Mystics only, not available to true clerics.

>>93200587
An ubercharger would if it's able to charge, but I can't see tripping working unless we're dealing with the low level golems and Karmic Strike + Robilar's Gambit is a damage race in an AMF. Need an adamantium weapon to not lose.

>>93200708
Ravenloft has destroy undead that also explicitly works as turn undead for feats, which us what my character has.
Destroy Undead from the ACF (lightbringer?) and turn undead from a PRC ( Knight of the Raven).

>>93200708
Azurin replaces the standard cleric ability, you'd need to combo it with something else to get regular turning back.
>>93201089
Which seems to be what was done here.


Domains hurt even if no restricted to Mystic only because I'm already at 4 needed/wanted domains. Planning(Modified to actually have fucking contingency because why the fuck wouldn't a planning domain have the most planning related spell), War, Pride, And Knowledge(Traded out simultaneously when i take the first level of Ordained champ for Power Attack AND Knowledge devotion if allowed) or

>>93200740
Yeah, looking at the numbers now that I crunched them out and ran a quick simulation instead of going with intuition, Fighter 15 with Karmic/Robilar's against a stone golem with 10 ft AMF is straight murder in the golem's favor without an adamantium weapon. 90% hit rate on your best attack for 4.5 a hit, anything more requires you PAing or getting boned by their reach advantage, 3 AoOs a round. You can bring the damage up by sacrificing accuracy but it's never enough to outpace them slapping your dick off with 95% hit rate 2d10+13 2 times a round, god help you if the thing rolls a 20. You're better off kiting with nets and a source of energy damage than you are engaging that thing.

>>93200616
>Smoking armor spikes
Armor spikes with the smoking enchantment from Lords of Darkness.
>Upon command, a smoking weapon fills the wielder's area (a 5-foot square) with noxious smoke equal to a stinking cloud spell. The smoke affects any creature that enters the wielder's area (such as to make a grapple attempt) and provides one-half concealment for the wielder. The wielder is not affected by the nauseating fumes and can see through them normally.
>The smoke dissipates instantly if the wielder leaves the smoke-filled square, forming again in whatever area the wielder ends his movement. A creature with a face larger than 5 ft by 5 ft. still only has one square enveloped in smoke; only attacks that cross or enter the smoke-filled area are subject to the miss chance.

>>93201216
I was going to do that with my character but I thought it too cheesy.
Instead I just got the blurring property in my armor.
Which has saved my character's ass a number if times already. Pretty cool.
O might even upgrade it to greater blurring.

>>93201196
I don't think anon meant only having romblar's gambit/karmic strike. For example: A two-weapon Robilar's gambit build with double hit and lightning mace(very possible as a 14th level fighter, which I assumed with OP anon's "4 cr below" comment) will get an AoO for each attack the golem makes and 2-3 attacks for each AoO provoked. You can essentially get 2-3 full attacks a round.

>>93202297
Your gmabit fighter should take ranks in Perform(Drums) so he can style on the enemy while he beats their face in.

>always thought I was a shite DM
>encounter designed was either too easy or ballcrushing
>plotlines felt meandering or too simple
>constantly making decisions I felt that I needed to take back
>met up with a bunch of friends I played a campaign with last night
>they were reminiscing about how fun the games were and all the memorable moments
man that felt really fucking good, I want to get back into it again

>>93200738
A one-level dip is a small price to pay for 3+Cha DMM fuel.

>>93200740
Goliath with starting 16 gets +4 racial and +4 ASI by 17th for 24 Strength, where the Iron Golem is 4 CR under per the scenario. +4 from Improved Trip matches 32-33 Strength, making it a coin-flip on fairly basic investment as far as offence-oriented Trip goes.

It's much harder to get through the DR on Karmic+Robilar's without first getting Shock Trooper's no-accuracy-loss, but Hardness-bypass and DR/Adamantine are common enough to frequently be worth the price-tag.

>>93201184
>Azurin replaces the standard cleric ability, you'd need to combo it with something else to get regular turning back.
Hence >>93200708
>then some PRCs grant Turn or Rebuke
Bone Knight gives the latter, for example, though in exchange for becoming expressly incapable of using Turn Undead.

>>93202297
Against an AMF golem you want a Two-Hander to overcome DR.

>>93202371
>Against an AMF golem you want a Two-Hander to overcome DR.
Adamantine maces. Characters over 10th level should be carrying a variety of special material weapons for the primary DR types anyway.

>>93202478
Obviously, but a conversation involving someone nearly TPKing to a golem with an AMF is probably not going to be sporting adamantine weapons.

>>93202321
Better yet, be a warblade, take a level dip for bardic music, and take the feat "Song of the White Raven". You can now use bardic music as a swift action and flavor that your weapon attacks are you playing the enemy with Perform(Drums). Your warblade levels also stack for the sake of bardic music, letting you get maximum party buffing off your Drum-Solo-Smackdown.

>>93202371
Can't take even 1 more non cleric casting level with Bone Knight and ordained Champion already in the build, can't even get to the quickened war domain level of OC without losing 9ths.


>>93202371
>>Azurin replaces the standard cleric ability, you'd need to combo it with something else to get regular turning back.
>Hence >>93200708
>then some PRCs grant Turn or Rebuke
>Bone Knight gives the latter, for example, though in exchange for becoming expressly incapable of using Turn Undead.
Azurin Alternate would have to be taken at level 1 AND 4 it can't be dipped starting at 4 right? So couldn't also do the Cloistered base and get that sweet buncha skill points?

>>93202491
Fair.

>>93202524
The lich may reform after you kill him, but the memory of dying to a man playing his ribs like a xylophone with never go away.

>>93202528
>can't even get to the quickened war domain level of OC without losing 9ths.
...Bone Knight is 9/10 and Ordained Champion is 3/5, where are you losing a fourth caster level? Ride ranks?

>Azurin Alternate would have to be taken at level 1 AND 4 it can't be dipped starting at 4 right?
No, you only need the 1st substitution level, which seems to be fully compatible with Contemplative's changes.

>>93202366
I invited someone to a game I was running in 2021, that hadn't played in years, and he said no and groaned about shitty DM things I did when I ran the game he was in. They were fair complaints, but my rebuttal, I think, was also fair. I'm no longer 15, it's been 20 years, and I've played in and run many games since we were 15. But, if he's still going to be pissy about me being bad at running d&d back in 2002 when we were kids and I had never been in a game as a player, I'm okay with not inviting him now.

>>93202640
Oh dhoot you're right I'd still JUST get my first 9th at 20th level which still sorta sucks.

>>93202640
>>Azurin Alternate would have to be taken at level 1 AND 4 it can't be dipped starting at 4 right?
>No, you only need the 1st substitution level, which seems to be fully compatible with Contemplative's changes
Cloister's 6 skillpoints and Azurin 1 is 2. I can't lose the 6+intx4 of first level.

Ride ranks I'm getting from the "Skills only" aristocrat gestalt and honestly I COULD get from dumping the occasional Cloistered cleric skill in and then getting the rest from Ordained Champ.

>>93203154
>Cloister's 6 skillpoints and Azurin 1 is 2. I can't lose the 6+intx4 of first level.
I'm saying that "Azurin Contemplative Cleric 1" may be a valid 1st level, getting both the alternative [Divine] feat fuel and the skill points at the same time. The only "conflict" seems to be overlapping class skill additions. Not entirely sure how RAW it is, but there's a lot of trouble for Barbarians if not given the reliance upon Whirling Frenzy Spirit Lion Totem.

What do you guys think makes for a good skill feat?

>>93203318
"+1 skill point per level every level"

>>93203300
Ahh interesting. I'm not sure since I sorta had my idea being he figured out his Blood of Vol style inner divinity thing by bossing around an undead and rebuking it on instinct so having to give that up at 1st and only relearn it at like 6th or 7th doesn't exactly fit.

>>93203475
Retroactive, including the 4x?

>>93203318
I've been partial to a +2-3 Competence bonus plus a skill rank every odd level, increasing your peak less than Skill Focus and overlapping common bonuses but easing the Ranks for prerequisites considerably.

>>93203522
Okay, that's a great fluff reason for keeping standard Rebuke, and the Bone Knight levels preclude the Turn Undead pools anyways. You'd have to use the fucky wording arguments about most Divine feats not defining Turn or Rebuke UNDEAD for off-beat Domain pools like Ooze or Cold.

Reminds me of my thoughts on trying to build a Slaymate Pale Master who's completely unaware that this status is a great horror (must die as a child abandoned by a caregiver AND must be locked in a tomb full of Undead for three days) and just spams obnoxious amounts of Negative Energy Rays with that metamagic reduction.

>>93203522
Yes.

>>93203740
>Okay, that's a great fluff reason for keeping standard Rebuke, and the Bone Knight levels preclude the Turn Undead pools anyways. You'd have to use the fucky wording arguments about most Divine feats not defining Turn or Rebuke UNDEAD for off-beat Domain pools like Ooze or Cold.
I mean you can use the rebuke pool but it is kinda sad.

>>93203740
Like that one Lovecraft story with the isolated child reading storybooks who finds the staircase?

File: Bone Knight official.png (366 KB, 400x547)

366 KB PNG

I really wish they'd actually told the artist that the armor is entirely made of bone.

File: cydonian cleric mounted.png (1.08 MB, 692x822)

1.08 MB PNG

Cydonian Ethnicity
+1 to any class-suggested score, -1 to any non class-suggested score
bonus skill-related or melee/mounted fighter bonus feat
bonus skill-points (must be spent on craft, knowledge, or cha-skills)
speak common ("cydonian")

Typically lawful neutral. Favored class is whatever they have the most levels in.

Since there is only one ethnicity of humans in my setting, I decided to make them more specific, with the added bonus of reigning in the human traits a bit. I really like it, and I suggest you consider doing it for your settings.

>>93191695
For what purpose? You are a fucking immortal wizard "god" owning a personal demiplane with sped up time. You literally can make a whole world that exists solely for the purpose of meeting those DC checks.

>>93205883
>the art doesn't match the book text
This is how I feel about the skin and hair in 99% of drow art and 75+% of elf art in forgotten realms books.

Are there any familiars from an official source that grant a bonus to the swim skill?

>>93208937
I think Frostburn had puffins (I keep forgetting to pick that book up, so I'm not 100%). The rest are scattered in Dragon entries (otter and platypus, I think). Pathfinder had a much better selection, but even those were scattered across several books (Familiar Folio, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Wilderness, bestiaries, adventure paths).

>>93209306
im just trying to come up with something better than muskrat, but without being too exotic

>>93205883
It's not supposed to be RAW bone anyways, and there's several clearly-ridiculous "bone" formations to back that up. Many a process can result in blackening the bone for durability.

>>93206456
>Favored class is whatever they have the most levels in.
That is an AGONIZING nerf for many a Martial dipfest, every 1/3 split turns into -30% XP gained.

Though having "Regional Humans" is an interesting constraint, reminds me of a take about 5e's Variant Humans being a magical eugenics project.

>>93208937
Otter from Dragon #280 and Platypus from Dragon #341 give +3 to Swim, Puffin is +2 Swim/Survival.

Otter and platypus are closer to what you want, then. There's other aquatic types, but swim bonuses are rare.

>>93209444
yeah but otters are too big
familiars are supposed to be tiny or diminutive

>>93209464
How about bullfrogs using toad stats as a springboard?

>>93209494
its a possibility
but dont frogs need to be in water often or they have problems?

>>93209523
Could just have the connection to the wizard keep the frog magically moist, but what climates are you using?

>>93206456
reference?
https://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyI?si=T6CV1hheIou9toXs

>>93209568
temperate
the standard familiars can go with the caster pretty much anywhere above water without too much trouble

>>93209628
In that case, a cottonmouth or water moccasin using viper statistics with a faster swim speed and a slower climb speed.

If you have some kind of buff or debuff active, like Bless for instance, and you get turned to stone; does it freeze the buff duration?

>>93210528
Why would it? It's not a temporal effect and you are no longer a person to be a viable target of the spell, so it just ends.

>>93208937
Otter. Dragon 277 / 280
https://orbitalflower.github.io/rpg/dnd3-extended-familiar-list.html

>>93209430
FR humans are also regional. But IIRC for them it just mostly dictates which L1 regional feat you get.

>>93209464
Aren't housecats tiny? Otters are about housecat sized.

>>93210843
>no longer a valid target.
I don't think that part matters. You were a valid target when it was cast. I mean. It's still going to wear off in a couple rounds or whatever. But if you cast some spell that buffs humans and then turn into a lizard, I don't recall seeing anything that would make it suddenly end.

If I'm wrong though throw the book at me.

Anons, how the fuck do bloodlines work?

for example:Are they an LA you have to pay XP for or a non-ECL-increasing flat XP cost?

Regardless of any way I read them, they break something in the character leveling system and every way to read how they work seems retarded.

>>93197170
Only some deities have the "Rejuvenation" Divine SAlient Ability that lets them respawn after death like a video-game character.
There are plenty of gods that're 100% murder-rape-ble with the right build.

>>93211145
google says they are 2.5 to 5ft long; thats "small"

>>93211356
That's not the range for one species. That's all 13. Some Max out a bit over 2.5ft, and some around 5ft. The ones maxing out around 2.5 should be in the range of tiny. That's about cat-sized.

>>93211701
There's also a leftover reference in Frostburn for the Medium-size Sea Otter being a Familiar, despite not appearing on any table with an effect for it. It'd fit perfectly with the DMG page 203 reference to Huge or bigger creatures getting larger Familiars.

File: rudy-siswanto-red-dragon-(...).jpg (344 KB, 1800x810)

344 KB JPG

Re-reading Draconomicon. Was it ever explained why dragons appraise magic items at half value (page 28)? I can understand prioritizing "intrinsic monetary value" (oh boy) over a cheaper but more magical item, but appraising it lower implies they actively dislike having magical items in their hoard, when that's never shown to be the case. Is it because they want to keep the magic items for later use, so they're not really liquid assets?

>>93211225
Pretty sure they work by removing experience from your character sheet sufficient to level up, sort of like necropolitans do.

>>93211225
It's badly written. The easiest option is to just use the "Bloodline Levels" table to determine the level where you have to pay one level's worth of XP (similar to the LA buyoff rules) and then throw out everything else in that section.

>>93211225
>>93212570
Alright, reading how it works in the SRD, I see the following information that helps understanding how these Bloodlines and Bloodline Levels work:
>Before a character with a Bloodline reaches the indicated character Level, he must take one Class Level of "Bloodline."
>If the character does not take a Class Level of Bloodline before reaching the character Level indicated on the table, he gains no further Bloodline traits and must take a 20% penalty on all future XP gains.
>Class Levels of "Bloodline" do not increase a character's character Level the way a normal Class Level does
>Before he reaches 3rd character Level, he must take a Level of Bloodline in order to continue gaining Bloodline traits.
>A Bloodline Level grants no increase in base attack bonus or base save bonuses, no hit points or skill points, and no Class features.
>It counts as a normal Class Level (with no Class skills) for the purpose of determining maximum skill ranks.
>Include the character's Bloodline Level when calculating any character ability based on his Class Levels
Then there's the sorcerer example :
>For example, a 2nd-Level sorcerer with a major Bloodline takes a Bloodline Level when earns enough XP to advance in Level
So, basically, as far as I can tell, you take these "Bloodline Levels" asyou would a Class Level, and they would count against the XP for your next Level, so as far as XP gains go, when your progression is
>lvl 1: sorcerer
>lvl 2: sorcerer
>lvl 3: Bloodline
Your character would :
>be character Level 2 (2 sorcerer Class Levels)
>have the max skill ranks of a 3rd lvl character (relevant for 4th Level owards I guess)
>have all Class Level based abilities bumped by 1 (due to the single Bloodline Level)
(Cont)

File: 1690561806992555.jpg (81 KB, 564x732)

81 KB JPG

>>93211225
>>93212570
>>93214553
So, in essence :
>the Bloodline Trait progression is paralel to the character Level progression by Class/RHD (it follows the tables)
>the Bloodline Class Levels are Class Levels that give you 0 BAB, 0 saves, 0 skill points (but count for your skill rank maximum), have essentially a Class feature that advances all Class Level based abilities (like the legacy champion?), and don't count for Multi Classing Penalty.
Now, the question is, does this count against your total character Level/ECL? I'd say yes, since the whole text treats them as Class Levels, and it even tells you that "Class Levels of Bloodline do not increase a character's character Level the way a normal Class Level does", which to me reads "these are Class Levels", "they increase your Character Level", "but they work differently from normal Class Levels" (by virtue of the parallel Bloodline Trait Progression).
That's the gist of it as far as I understand, sans a couple of details that I didn't find confusing.
So yeah, it's confusing, convoluted, and badly written, but I guess you can resolve he progression when leveling by following each relevant bit of information individually?
I guess it could be written as :
>you choose to have a Minor, Intermediate, or Major bloodline when creating your character
>You advance the bloodline traits according to the table until each breakpoint (see table)
>To advance beyond each breakpoint, you must take a level in the Bloodline Character Class
>[description of the Bloodline Character Class]
Something of the sort. I think that's more or less what they were going for, but they ended up writing too much and using too many terms.
Does that sound right to you all?

>>93214553
>>93214580
Bloodline levels seems to be a way to make a character pay for having the bloodline by slowing down their progression, but without front-loading the cost with LA. They could have had a progressive LA increase at the breakpoints instead of having Bloodline Class Levels (or "class level of bloodline" as the text puts it) if that's what they wanted, although it also seems like they didn't want to halt the progression completely (such as DCs), but they could have just added that to the Trait Progression Table (gets 1 la, advances all character level based abilities by 1 sans X and Y and Z, and gets [trait]).

>>93214580
I can see the argument that they're intended to progress your ECL, even if I don't agree with it, but I also don't think you should use them that way anyway, because LA is kind of a garbage mechanic and the only way to actually make use of bloodlines in that paradigm is to abuse them.

>>93214765
>but I also don't think you should use them that way anyway, because LA is kind of a garbage mechanic and the only way to actually make use of bloodlines in that paradigm is to abuse them.
Absolutely.
Have actual class levels, feats, or just a "free" parallel progression like gestalting.
Hell, aren't bloodline feats a thing?

>>93214657
I think it's to hit PRC timings at 6th. Acolyte of the Skin, Blood Magus, Daggerspell Mage, Escalation Mage, Maester, Master of Shadow, Mindbender, and Sand Shaper are all "strictly pure caster" 6th-level entry but let in by CL, and you're fine for maximum skill ranks that pop up ALL over the place.

It's troublesome to find an EXCELLENT fit for the examples, but in principal there's space for substituting Fighter 2 prerequisite smoothing.

>>93214941
IIRC the [Bloodline] category is a Sorcerer thing, but there's also [Abyssal Heritor] and [Aberrant] serving a similar role.

Playing a Sha-ir bog witch in a game tomorrow. Any advice on good/fitting spells for 6th level?

>>93202478
>Characters over 10th level should be carrying a variety of special material weapons for the primary DR types anyway.

It's funny how people used to complain and make fun of how 3E encouraged the "golf bag" weapon collection, as though a fighter bristling with weapons like a walking armory isn't fucking badass.

File: file.png (96 KB, 1125x417)

96 KB PNG

Does Immediate Magic's school need to match your specialism?
It doesn't say so in the rules but the flavor suggests that you do.

>>93215856
Yes.
>reflects your chosen school of magic

>>93215909
I'm also double retarded because it literally says
>The supernatural ability gained depends on your specialty
thanks

>>93214657
Issue being, if bloodlines function like LA that costs XP, they are never worth taking under any circumstance. They by far the most terrible for sorcerers, the class they're basically designed for fluff-wise, because a sorcerer with a major bloodline looses 9th level casting completely. not just sorcerer either, it puts any and every class behind their needed progression at a given ECL for benefits that are strictly worse than class levels.

On the other hand, the other more popular interpretation is that they don't increase ECL. If that's true then they're like the flaws mechanic, too useful to ever go without bar DM veto.

It's a dumb mechanic all around.

>>93216965
Wouldn't be the first mechanic WotC designed that punishes players for using it. Look at LA, true naming, and monk for further examples.

>>93216987
Isn't truenamer so bad that it requires giving it an Item Familiar to make it playable?

>>93216987
Monk isn't that bad, it's a low-floor/high-ceiling class . With proper magic items and buffs it has the highest damage ceiling of any martial.

>>93218161
It's more about high-rolling on abilities or very autistic race optimization than items and buff spells, and the outlier performance is the durability rather than DPR.

Unless you mean stacking the Monk-level-boosters and virtual size increases for Colossal Monk 20 by level 10 or so, which has contentious results because it escapes all example tables and stops scaling so you have to multiclass OUT of Monk to keep progressing. Still lags behind dedicated Ubercharger stacks, but is noticeably less conditional.

Are there any decent wizard / paladin builds or prestige class options? Our resident dipshit player decided to make a new character at the last second. He started with 2 levels of domain wizard with the transmutation domain and then multiclassed into paladin of tyranny, both from the unearth arcana. We tried to convince him to rework his class (again) but he insisted on just playing what he made. Is it salvageable or is his character just crippled from the git go?

Bonus, he sent me 5e homebrew for a rogue while I was writting this.

>>93219160
Keep paladin long enough to get the charisma save bonus then eldritch knight, maybe? Sorcerer really would've been better for that.
>Bonus, he sent me 5e homebrew for a rogue while I was writting this.
My head aches on your behalf.

>>93215740
Sadly short of putting a wizard or cleric or weapon enhancement duty you are never going to have your golf bag. Because it costs 50k+ gold per weapon if you want them to be actually useful. Or you need to do some decent cheese to make sure that you can hit everything without full weapon enhancement.

>>93219266
Earlier thread had people talking about cheap +7 masterwork mundane weapons.

>>93219160
The High One Warrior-Wizard from the Champions of Valor web enhancement. Wizard substitution levels that let you combine familiar and special mount as well as reduce ACF.

>>93219266
>Needs a +5 weapon to hit anything.
Do you only know how to make power attack builds anon?

>>93219160
The main synergy that comes to mind is save-or-suck Touch spells benefitting from Aura of Despair's -2, which is 3 levels in. Saves you from quite as much Intelligence-pushing or Heighten cost, but is traditionally not worth the spellcasting loss.

Tyranny's Lawful Evil precludes Sword of the Arcane Order, which would have added Paladin level to Wizard CL and allowed Wizard spells to be prepared in Paladin slots. And what >>93219439 mentioned, which grants Smite EVIL at 2nd.

This is the exact case for why the DMG makes such a point of tailoring PRCs for your campaign, because there's a LOT of weird edge-cases that'd never fit any design goal for official support, even without variants stripping most of the "magnet" features.

>>93219266
Dragonshard Pommel Stones are a +25% surcharge for a set of enhancements that can be swapped between pretty much any weapon, and in many cases full-BAB classes are interested in the attack bonus to get more Power Attack rather than to get decent accuracy in the first place.

>>93219413
Cheaper than +5 Bane weapons, but still several thousand GP IIRC.

>>93219607
>which grants Smite EVIL at 2nd.
The emphasis you put on this made me double-check, but there's no contradiction here. It would just be a shitty smite that's probably not worth the level one spell you traded for it. Even though it would likely be adjusted to "smite good" instead, it's still not worth it. Only the familiar mount thing is actually good, and even then, taking levels in paladin instead of dipping a prestige class that gets it in one level is super sub-optimal, basically wasting levels. Or, of course, conversely playing a paladin with sword of the arcane order instead of wasting levels on wizard.

>>93219601
On a fighter? Mostly yes. PA is the best since it's the most stable source of damage. Sneak attack, skirmish and so on need workarounds to make sure you can apply them - a lot of opponents that would no sell precision damage are very nasty.

ToB classes of course don't give a fuck. Psychic warrior has some inbuilt workarounds but it does have lower BAB.

>>93216965
Use my take on it then, have bloodlines cost xp rather than tak a level slot.

Sure, the player that has them is stronger than normal, but they also lag behind in levels for most of the campaign. They won't be outclassing the other players unless they also play at a much higher optimization level, but even then the problem would exist with or without bloodlines. I personally make bloodlines a class feature of sorcerers.

>>93219674
>On a fighter?
Power attack build are way better on a barbarian, especially with frenzied berserker.
Fighters are great for special attack builds like tripper, sunderer, or dungeon crasher.

>>93219671
...Even given that Azuth allows LE Clerics, they start Paladin then multiclass out as Wizards, not Wizard then Paladin, and the Smite Evil is a clear signpost of the org being standard LG Paladins.

Also, a level or two of Wizard isn't a waste on Sword of the Arcane Order, since it gives you a spellbook with freebies for guaranteed Arcane spell prep and qualifies you for a bunch of stuff. Best to trade out the Familiar for something so Obtain Familiar can query your combined CL.

>>93219728
Tripping and sundering coexist with Power Attack. They're not their own thing. Dungeoncrashing is but it also falls off a cliff later if you aren't rescuing it with a shield build letting it coexist with normal attacking.

>>93219802
Sundering has Power Attack prerequisite, but if you're doing TWF Trips then PA's in a hard-to-escape hole.

>>93219857
TWF tripping is an entirely different beast built around HS/LA and Double Hit and it's harder to hit with naturally because of the -2 and need to pay for two weapons. Like off of the top of my head, they'd have a +27 with two +4 weapons at 16 when you've got Cornugons with 35 AC.

>>93219728
What about feinter?

>>93219958
>I want to use a standard action make an opposed roll where the opponent will always have a larger bonus than me.
No-game detected.

>>93219958
Feinting blows massive massive amounts of cock.

>>93219986
if youre fighting some faggot with sky-high dex/dodge/combat expertise/etc then its useful, but how often does that happen

>>93219932
AC is designed to be a 50/50 hitmiss chance for ecl, same as spell resisance. Thats why trying to build for a reliable hit-rate sucks so much cock, the designers built the game to prevent that in the first place.

>>93219932
Given the underlying context is an AMF Golem fight, the extra price-tag on Enhancing two weapons is irrelevant. And in the Trip case it's overstated since the Iterative penalty only affects Touch Attacks.

>>93219958
*laughs at the FOOL*

>>93220214
If you're tripping you've got a whole different problem which is the golem tripping you back or disarming you if you fail.

>>93220274
oh, he's trippin

>>93220274
Has been tackled before:

>>93202371
>Goliath with starting 16 gets +4 racial and +4 ASI by 17th for 24 Strength, where the Iron Golem is 4 CR under per the scenario. +4 from Improved Trip matches 32-33 Strength, making it a coin-flip on fairly basic investment as far as offence-oriented Trip goes.

Doesn't work for TWF due to the Dex penalty, though you can get Powerful Build without a Dexterity penalty for LA +2 and a feat with Dragon #350's Stonebone Creature template. Which can be applied to Water Orc for +8 Str/+6 Con/-2 Cha/Int/Wis or to Azurin to help fuel Cobalt Expertise because for some reason [Incarnum] feats aren't Supernatural.

>>93220449
>for some reason [Incarnum] feats aren't Supernatural.
Just don't think about it. Magic of incarnum is up there with weirdest supplements 3.5 has ever seen, right up there with d20 stargate being planescape canon.

>>93220021
I'm pretty sure there is a weapon gem that solves this problem.

>>93221018
It's almost certainly just the writers forgetting that feats default to (Ex), but it IS worth mentioning.

>>93221253
Nearest is Revelation, which is for Invisibility and Concealment.

File: dyslexic.png (192 KB, 987x913)

192 KB PNG

What's your favorite character sheet?

File: power word pain.png (180 KB, 324x607)

180 KB PNG

Do the Power Word spells from RotD just demolish low level encounters?

>>93222263
It'll do work against the really low level enemies since they practically can't avoid being killed by it, but not before they can fight back most of the time. It is mind-affecting though so it's not a guaranteed win.

What are the most powerful feats in the game? Not necessarily just for wizard, but for all classes.
>Natural Spell
>Persistent Spell
>Divine Metamagic
>Arcane Thesis
>Augment Summoning
>Power Attack
>Craven
>Shock Trooper
What else?

>>93227040
You missed the peak:
>item familiar

>>93227040
That varies by DM. For example, Eschew Materials and Spell Mastery could keep a wizard alive if his DM is known for frequent unavoidable party imprisonment, but won't mean shit if the DM doesn't bother with components, rarely throws the party into prison cells, and doesn't target spellbooks.

>>93227040
Does Leadership count?
And I'd argue that Persist Spell is kind of shit. It's Divine Metamagic: Persist that's overpowered.
Same with quicken, which is not shit by itself, merely good.

>>93227040
>supernatural transformation
The ability to manifest Psionic is explicitely and innate psi-like ability.
Even with vanilla default psionics-magic transparencybrule, psi-likes count as spell-like unless dm intercedes.
This means a default psion can use supernatural transformation to make their powers all count as supernatural. This does change action, pp cost, or material requirements, but it Does make manifest level=HD. It's amazing for gishes and theurging.
Even with dm with custom transparency rules, ardents and erudites can over-rule them using magic mantle.

>>93227040
Since Power Attack and Craven are there, I'll put a vote for Knowledge Devotion.

>>93227132
This reminds me that people really complain too much about wizards.
Everyone I've talked to with those compaints goes something like:
>DM: wizards are fucking OP, my player did XYZ
>Anon: Did you try limiting the obviously rare components for spell X?
>retard DM: we don't keep track of components, that's too much book keeping
>Anon: okay, did you try separating him from the specific spell book the spell is in?
>retard DM:why would I do that? He'd be useless if he's unable to cast spells.
>anon: what about his other spellbooks that only have 100 pages for spells that take up 1 page per spell level?
>retard DM:he keeps all 15,000 pages worth of spells in one book. It's less book keeping
>anon: what did you Think would happen when gave the wizard effectively unlimited resources?

>>93227040
Ancestral Relic's a pretty good one.

>>93227154
>Does Leadership count?
Definitely. I forgot that it's literally the most powerful feat in the game. Although...depends son whether the DM lets you create your cohort or not. I always did, if only because I would scale encounters with cohorts in mind. Which you're not supposed to do but I don't care. My group has a history of making ridiculous damage builds for their cohorts and annihilating encounters so I finally banned leadership for the next campaign. Took me WAY too long to do that.

Quicken Spell is another one yeah. Should probably be in place of.Persist Spell, I agree.

>>93227203
I'll look into this one.

>>93227236
I've always said knowledge devotion is good. Protection devotion is also not bad IMHO because it actually boosts armor class to be potentially viable. But definitely knowledge devotion.

>>93227112
I'll look into this but I'd appreciate a QRD on why it's good in case it's not obvious.

>>93227693
I've never understood why that one was good. Seemed like a bandaid for stingy GMs. Or as a way to let martials do item crafting and actually pick their weapon special abilities.

>>93227841
>Protection devotion is also not bad IMHO because it actually boosts armor class to be potentially viable
I love Protection Devotion.
I'd one 100% have taken it in place of Law Devotion for my character if Protection was one of my deity's domains.
That said, Law Devotion is pretty good too, being able to switch between offensive and defensive with a swift action is golden.
That +5 to AB is +10 to damage with Power Attack, after all.
And of course, Animal Devotion is also quite good.

>>93227841
>I've never understood why that one was good.
You can sacrifice items 1:1 for value, when they generally sell for 1/2 value. You can sacrifice architecture or items otherwise too big to haul and pawn off. You can re-arrange the item's enchantments to specialize for a specific encounter at no cost.

>>93227841
>I'll look into this but I'd appreciate a QRD on why it's good in case it's not obvious.
It's an intellegent item that gets stronger as you do, gives +10% XP gain from Everything, skill bonuses, and a host of other options.

>>93228133
You can also use it to get around limiation against improvement on certain items.
For example: you can make an item of legacy that's actually worth the cost of investment.

>>93228218
>>93228230
I now want to try making an ancestral relic item familiar of legacy

>>93228230
>you can make an item of legacy that's actually worth the cost of investment.
Just strip out the weird stat penalties and that whole sub-system goes from worthless to cool.

>>93228248
There's also a thing in the DMG 2 that let's you choose an item to be a bonded item (I think), which allows you to upgrade the item as if you had all the necessary crafting feats without needing the materials, just the XP.
Or something like that.
You could stack a lot into a single item.

>>93228264
It takes up class levels. It's even worse than weapons of legacy.

>>93228248
Be a wizard and use the staff familiar ACF from dragon magazine.
Congradulations, all your eggs are in one basket, but it's a basket that can net 1 free wish/day in addition to everything else.

>>93228360
Congradulations, your wizard staff Owns Your Ass now.

>>93228360
Fuck it, Give it the flying enhacement from magic of faerun. It can have it's own class levels now.

>>93228429
At a certain point you're playing as the staff and the wizard is just a hireling

>>93228348
>It takes up class levels
It does?
I thought it was just the normal crafting XP, damn.
Regardless, my point is that you can just stack a bunch of shit onto a single item.

>>93228452
What you don't want to roleplay as a crazy wizard whose creation has evolved far beyond his power to control?

>>93228554
Item familiars are always loyal anon.

Beyond that, a magic item with class levels is a RAW valid way to bypass the BS costs of weapons of legacy. Constructs(like intelligent magic items with HD) are valid targets for the "monster of Legacy" template and has the same requirements, but the template doesn't need to pay stat penalties.

>>93228133
Oh ok good point.
I usually let PCs sell stuff for full value just to not mess up the Wealth by level but I am aware of the other rule and it's far more realistic (as I learned from selling MTG cards to FLGS)

>>93228360
Also have someone cast the kissed by the ages spell to make it indestructible as long as you live and keep you from aging as long as it exists.

>>93228248
>>93228429
>>93228605
>>93228664
Congradulations Sauron, the on ring has been completed. Middle Earth is yours for the taking.

>>93228429
What would be the best class/build for our intelligent magic item familiar?

>>93227040
Words of Creation is an insane feat if you meet the prereqs.

File: power-button-isolated-on-(...).jpg (3 KB, 334x200)

3 KB JPG

>>93228696
>on ring

>>93227040
>>93228720
Or barring that, dark speech allows you to create semi-loyal demigods.

>>93228709
Archivist/Runecaster is the ultimate support character, but requires the ability to speak and write, which may be a tall order for an object with no hands, so I'll vote for Psion.

>>93228731
Weirdly enough, I could actually see sauron building his own PC.

>>93228709
Werdly enough: cleric. You could be both aspects of CoDzilla in one character.

>>93228747
>semi-loyal
This is a Very important distinction anon.

>>93228709
Be a martial class(preferably fighter, or at least human, so the feat tax doesn't hurt as bad) and have the itembe a full caster.
Easiest gish build in d&d.

>>93228230
You can do a lot with 3/day Metapsionics, and if you're willing to use the menus as examples rather than exhaustive there's a lot you can do to MAKE it worthwhile. It shouldn't take optimization work or homebrew to be worth those penalties, but it's not entirely worthless.

I've tried a few times to figure out a good sequence for scaling by stackable options, like using permanent Fiends as Possessors for a flexible GP pool or having a Large Monstrous Centipede or Giant Termite Queen gain feats from Intelligent Legacy.

>>93228348
No, that's the UA Legendary Weapons:
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/legendaryWeapons.htm

DMG2's Bonded Items are only magical as you use them, making them uniquely useless to loan out, but they're the nearest-to-RAI option for Vow of Poverty via Heavy Aspergillum.

>>93229072
Feind of possession can be broken if the fiend gets legacy champion levels. Up to +14 enhancement to be split between powers and bonus, in addition to what the item already has.

>>93229237
Throw it in the pile with the +7 masterwork from earlier threads.

>>93229237
WTF do you even put on a +24 sword. Especially if you don't need to spend any on bonuses?

>>93229434
EVERYTHING!
Why even stop at a sword? With liberal uses of mindrape, you can stuff mindbroken fiends into every magic item slot.

>>93228709
>>93229237
>>93229295
Forget sauron, these anons are trying to make morgoth to slay iluvatar and the valar.

>>93229237
I was referring to shoving a Constant Companion derivative into the weapon for a few thousand GP of freeform value, allowing stuff like Changeling Spears or Called armor that a FoP user can't get as well as Wondrous Item value like ability scores without the painful inefficiency of the existing setup.

That general non-stacking has had me sitting on a half-done breakdown to A-equivalents for a point-buy version that allows you to spend only part of it on a lower menu option without "wasting" value.

>>93229434
Epic qualities. Being Epic, they are naturally very stupid. Permanent Dancing, infinite range without penalty, negate less than total Cover and any Concealment, triple your thrown attacks... Though importantly you only get +14 of qualities here, that +7 is just attack bonus. And thus doesn't pierce DR/Epic.

>>93229718
>Though importantly you only get +14 of qualities here, that +7 is just attack bonus. And thus doesn't pierce DR/Epic.
DR/epic doesn't specify it must be a magical enhancement bonus(likely so psionic items don't get fucked), and masterwork bonuses are enhancement bonuses(which is why they don't stack with magic enhancement).
A theoretical +6 weapon overcomes DR/epic, but it's impossible to get without 3rd party material anyway so it shouldn't matter(1st party only allows up to +5 masterwork).

>>93229783
*Theoretical +6 masterwork

>>93229783
>impossible to get without 3rd party material anyway so it shouldn't matter
Even with 3rd party material, get one still involves a multiveral campaign requiring no less than the direct intervention of a god, the willing destruction of multiple artifacts, and creating an interdimensional slave ring for autistic elves.

>>93229830
>The player's side-quest becomes its own campaign.
I love it when this shit happens. The players do 30% of the work for me and they think I'm the hero for letting them do it. It's Win-Win.

>>93229434
>>93229718
Yes, but which ones specifically. I'm so use to the 5-9 slot WSA/ASA limit that can't even imagine what I'd need to fill up 23 ability slots.
What are the best weapon/armor abilities that are normally to expensive/too large of a slot to be worth it?

>>93228747
To CREATE Demigods?

I need to see how the hell this item works and how each of these interact this is crazy.

>>93228605
But what good does monster of legacy do for the user?

>>93231566
14 of qualities, and I mentioned what several of the Epic ones do. On the armor side, you can get stuff like reflect anything Spell Turning works on forever for a +10, turn any ranged attack into a DC 20+Enhancement/Spell Level Reflex save for +8, and applying a CL 20 Greater Dispel Magic to any magic weapon that hits you for +5 (still takes the Epic item creation feat...).

You can redo it in like two rounds, it's whatever seems useful in the moment.

NEW THREAD
>>93231798
>>93231798

>>93231668
>To CREATE Demigods?
It's because of the BovD hivemind rules. Depending on how many creatures are part of a hivemind, the hivemind itself get a flat intelligence and charisma score. For each point of intelligence bonus, every creaure in the hivemind gets an extra skillpoint PER HD and an extra FEAT. for every point of charisma over 18(not bonus) the hivemind can cast through any member as if it were a sorcerer of a level equal to (charisma - 18).
Dark speech allows you to create hiveminds.
The problem is that the original version was balanced. Only hiveminds of 100 creatures(total, not at a time) of 1 HD each(AKA they're pushovers) can be made using the feat, and that made hiveminds with an INT and CHA of 7(no bonus feats, skills, or spellcasting). The hivemind rules were for DMs.
Unfortunately, nobody actually read the rules and just complained about how OP dark speech was. So they updated the Feat, but not the hivemind rules, in elder evils. For some fucking reason, the elder evils version removes the creature cap and HD cap, now they only have an INT cap of 2(AKA all animals and vermin, plus some aberrations and constructs). So now you can make armies of demigods.

>>93228747
>dark speech
From the BoVD? Dark Speech doesn't create anything. At higher levels you get a minor bonus to persuade evil listeners, but none of that approaches what you're suggesting.

>>93231827
Check the literal comment above you. Also new thread.

>>93231817
Reread Elder Evils version of Dark Speech (dark unity effect)
>"to establish a hive mind in any swarm of vermin or animals with an Intelligence score of 2 or lower"
Note that "establishes a hive mind in any swarm" allows suggestion to affect animal or vermin swarms, that's all. "Hivemind" (one word) is a very different thing that applies sorcerer abilities when creating monsters.

At least a fucking sorcerer would have some Cha-in-common. (Though I'd usually give dispensation to make Paladin less MAD and make em a full cha caster)