As someone who doesn't usually play magic-users, regardless of system, I've been wondering; what's the main appeal to those of you who do?
It’s always the most fun, in every system. Even in the original DnD>hide in the back doing damage, everyone protects you, get to chill and zone out>eventually become the main damage dealer, every fight you’re killing dozens of enemies>At domain play instead of a lame medieval barony you get a sick wizard tower where you get to make monsters and dungeonsIt’s the fantasy part of the fantasy world. If I wanted to be a sword guy who collects a bunch of other sword guys I’d play mount and blade.
I like the fantasy of scholars studying the supernatual and bending it to their will. Also being an elemental blaster.
>>93191586M&B ttrpg when?
>>93191559Being a scientist/adventurer whose doing this adventuring shit because you don't make a name for yourself sitting in the study halls. That, and monster pussy.
I just like to have options. Wizards have many options and often much more flavour than any other class. Instead of just attacking or whatever you can do many other things that are not related to combat, but even in combat you can do interesting stuff that isn't just limiting to attacking.
>>93191559Haha, Laws of Phsyics go BRRRT!Also, I like throwing concentration buffs on Fighters or Rogues and watching them go absolutely apeshit on some fool while I throw cantrips in the background, though that's strictly a DnD specific appeal. It's a bit different in say, Unknown Armies.
>>93191559the concept of casting spells and study weird shit is compelling to me
>>93191559>IRL I'm a nerd at the mercy of big guys and slick con artists>In game I'm a nerd who can melt your head with a word
magic has always been the easiest and instantaneous way to access and play with the meta of a world. you're playing with buff and debuff conditions; slow, haste, poisoned, knocked back, pulled forwards. you can dramatically change the ecosystem and ecology of a localized space, alter the people's minds about issues or topics directly. You do it safely from a distance and watch whatever happened to happen over there.Want to contact other planes of existence that normal people can't, there's magic for that.Freedom and relative safety.
I don't know, I don't know why anyone would be interested in something that wasn't just hitting and cutting
>>93191559Considering the umbrage wizard players throw at Pathfinder 2e, they just want to be powerful.The only thing the PF2e wizards are worse at than fighters is just single target damage and god damn are they mad about it.
i like the aesthetics of a dude in a big coat, robe, or hat carrying around a big book full of secrets and using it to summon glowing geometric shapes that make the world explode.
They can just do more, they're more open to creativity
>>93191559Having more options means I get to play more game per game. It's just more fun. In a system where casters and martials are equally complex I'll usually play a martial because they interact more directly with what's around them.
>>93195692>worse health>worse perception >worse initiative >fewer class feats>worse class feats>intelligence is useless and only gives additional trained skills, it doesn't upgrade skills from trained to expert/etc which is useless compared to giving extra skill points which is what it used to do>fighters have better saving throws and better defenses>the best way to actually use spell attack spells is to be a fighter and then go Eldritch Archer since you'll be more accurate than a wizard>a level 18 wizard and a level 18 fighter who used a couple feats to poach wizard features have identical proficiency in wizard spellcasting (Master) >the wizard needs to spend 2 actions and a limited spell slots to have a monster be slowed, the fighter can spend 2 actions and shoot even high level boss enemies with a bow to automatically slow them with no save allowed and no resource cost, he can just do this every round foreverthe reason people hate wizard in 2e is that they're fucking garbage and you're better off playing a fighter and flavoring your JOHN FIGHTERMAN athletics maneuvers and fighter feats as "spells" than actually casting real spells.
>>93196613Oh, I agree with all that, certainly. You're completely correct.But notice that most people in this thread talk about options, versatility, flavor and the like but suddenly if the wizard isn't super powerful as well then people don't like it. Very important stuff. It's just wizard players are literally (figuratively) the only people who are actually angry about their power level in PF2e. From every other class of player, not a peep. Just the wizards. They talk of flavor but really want power. Aside from the guys that talk of power, I can understand those guys and have nothing against them.Also Wizard gets Slow at level 3. Fighter gets it at level 10.
>>93196720>Also Wizard gets Slow at level 3it's a third level spell, which means you need to be fifth level to cast it, and can only do so a couple times a day.
>>93191559You get to solve situations in a game through the intelligent use of magic, instead of just hitting it. Be aware though that some DMs don't like this - if they planned to railroad you into an unavoidable two hour combat session and you 'ruin' it by teleporting away, by charming or paralysing the enemy, summon up a load of magical minions to fight in your stead, or just nuke them from a distance, some DMs get pissed off with your 'cheating'.
>>93196735oh, I was talking about Laughing Fit, which fails on a successful save by the target.The spell actually named "Slow" only fails when the target critically succeeds their save so it's pretty comparable to the Fighter's ability which comes 5 levels later and also uses 2 actions like the wizard's spell, though the Fighter does also cause damage.
>>93191559>what's the main appeal to those of you who do?You can make your ennemies head grow bigger and change their hands into feets.
In LBB, B/X, ADnD 1E they are the ones that can use magic. Wands, scrolls, staves.They bring other solutions than the thief, cleric and fighter.
>>93191559I don't play something for the "appeal", I play it because it's effective. That's not to say that magic-users are effective in every game or situation, so sometimes I don't play them.
>>93191559make explosiongo invisibleflyraise the dead
>>93191559>what's the main appeal to those of you who do?Magic is cool.
>>93191559it is a "Power Fantasy"
>>93196720>muh powerPower was always the point of any class, but especially clerics and wizards. Do you really think clerics worship dark gods because they're a bunch of larping weekend Satanists?...or that Necromancers root about in graveyards because they're a bunch of horny incels? In early editions wizards paid their dues early by being frail and having their spell selections under the DM's thumb. Clerics have to answer to some pissy control freak. Fighters just fight. They have no weaknesses at early levels and don't have a whiny god to obey. They're intended to be bland and generic. Rogues are much the same. These newer games suck because they take the DM out of DMing. Unless you have a shit DM or good fighters in the group, most casters die early and brutally. In my opinion. The only class that was ever really overpowered was the Paladin of Horus. Cleric with Paladin abilities is nuts.
>>93196613Most of that sounds like AD&D.>>93197352I thought there was also a couple of clerics who could get fighter or paladin progression.Also that one priest who got wizard spells and priest spells and a fuck ton of spell slots, I think was an Egyptian god priest.One of my players wanted that but knew if the campaign didn't go long she'd never be useful.
>>93191559Its fantasy, and also unlocks venues of play much greater than usual. It is actually the reason i dislike dnd wizards, they are so stifling, yet so fucking powerful.Imo, in a perfect game, a wizard is a better rogue, and the rogue doesnt exist, but is instead a feature of other classes.Oh your master swordsman is fiddling with the door? I tap it with my finger and it opens. Oh your archer is unable to harm an iron golem, i extract its soul.Oh you are facing a gigantic monster that shoots deadly fireballs. I am gonna buff you and run the fuck away.
>>93197491Isis. She was the main one that granted wizard and cleric spells. There were a couple others as well.
>>93197603>Shit AC somehow with Mage Armor>Shit saves, despite having the best saves>Extremely limited amount of spells despite having the most spells of any class, and much more than the martials, who get zero spells>Shit weapon options, despite attack cantrips nominally outperforming mundane weapons>Takes time and effort to learn new spells, which are given for free with every level advance>Somehow prepping the wrong spells ever when there are always good spells to pick in every situation>Ironically doesn't need to worry about HP, in part because of spells, but mostly because if the Wizard ever does take damage, they're pretty much doomed>Quite literally true that the Wizard doesn't need AC because there are literally spells for exactly that, which are superior to regular armor in every wayThe rest is fair enough as critique, though. Wizards aren't immune to everything, but pretending they're weak with ~realizations~ like fucking "extremely limited amount of spells" is kind of trolling.....OH SHIT!
>>93197818and the nogame theorycrafter pops up right on cue
>>93197823Curses, it was a troll!Well played, you handsome scoundrel. As expected of a PF2 player!
>>93197826cope
>HES CALLING ME OUT! INITIATING BUZZWORD SPAM!!You hate to see it
>>93191559>what's the main appeal to those of you who do?Because in too many systems they're the only ones allowed to do cool things.
>>93191559I think it's really cool to do utilitarian things with magic. I always liked when the wizard/witch in fantasy books would make campfires, cast illusions, and part bodies of water, and the like.I love you.
>>93191721I'm currentlu prepping a game that is basically M&B, albeit a different setting.
>love massive elaborate rituals>campaigns can never really accommodate them because dungeon crawling and general globetrotting doesn't give you enough time to get you and 5 of your homies to do hours long rituals. Really is a shame.
>>93191559>what's the main appeal to those of you who do?I like the 'build your own deck' kind of play, spellcasters just have more options to check and change. But I don't limit myself to only play one kind of character.
