The changes for all the classes are fantastic, except the Paladin. /tg/ will be forced to eat their hat soon. 5e is good again
>>93195964How can it be good again when it wasn't good to start with?
>>93195979Because people will still be rewriting what they don't like and giving 5e credit for what it doesn't do.
>>93195989You jest but D&D 5e is easy to homebrew for
>>93195998It's genuinely not. However, a lot of autists have gone to great effort to create templates, reveal underlying math (in all its jank), describe design trends, and maintain reference resources in spite of WotC's legal team. So that makes up the difference.
>>93195998I'm dead serious.It's retarded how shitheads say that 5e is the greatest TTRPG ever, then cite the fixes they had to force into it as being what makes it good.It's disingenuous.
>>93196049Most people are disingenuous most of the time. Hypocrisy is normal and integrity isn't.
>>93196049>fixesImprovements.Nothing is perfect. Everything can be improved. Even the best can still be improved.You should try improving yourself. You're kind of a piece of shit.
>>93196049by and large it's a very great system, and it's easy to homebrew for. everyone does it
>>93195964Paladin still gets their retarded OP saving throw aura, unchanged. What's there to complain about?
>>93196206So how is D&D 5e responsible for things other people do for it, again? I missed that part of your argument.
>>93195979/threadthey should just rename 5e to marvel super heroes superdrama super forceit would be more authentic
>>93195964You misspelled Ranger.Paladin is fine>toot toot replying to a shit bait thread
>>931959645E was never good and this hasn't done anything to change that.
>>93196470It's not as exciting as the other class changes. So I can see people playing it less.
>>931959645e was never good, will never be good and you will never be a woman.
>>93195964>hey pal, you just blow in from /5eg/?
>>93195964>5e is good againExplain why. Specifically explain why the combat is good. You won't, because you can't without outing yourself as an unironic Monopoly player.
>>93196534That would require them to change the system into a theather of the mind non dice freeform.
>>93196476>how is the foundation importantWhy are you retarded.And disingenious.
>>93197915Kids these days gotta learn to defend themselves against forgotten 80s rap musicians.
>>93195998>>931962315e has a modular class feature system, so it's easy to add and change individual modular things that slot in and out like little brick blocks.It's still 5e. People try, and struggle, and fail, but insist on trying to make 5e something it's not, because the modular class feature system gives them a taste of playing something - anything - other than base 5e.It's easy to homebrew for, if all the DM needs is a few class changes. Mercer made a whole damn class of his own, but it was made using the same modular building blocks as the other classes. He did very little to change the actual playstyle of the game, what, the spell rule and that's it? It clearly makes casters busted, but because it's a storytime show as much as it is a game, it doesn't matter for them.For the groups copying Mercer's rules, it's a nightmare.>>93196206>>93197937You need to realize that WotC are charging money for 5e. It ain't cheap.When everything good about the game was made by other people, for free, something is up. It's almost like WotC did barely any work, and sat back raking in money from the hard work of unpaid fans.If the foundation is easy to get to grips with but very, very lacking, with big holes and awkward gaps all over, it's not a good foundation.5e was build on sand. Mercer and his gang unironically kept 5e from Tehom, and not because they did such a great homebrew, but because they provided a show.
>>93198076Man, shut the fuck up already.>When everything good about the game was made by other people, That's not the case.For fuck's sake, look at the leaps you need to take just to try and pretend you have an argument.
>>93197937People aren't talking about the foundation when they say it IS the BEST TTRPG in the world, they're talking about the changes they had to make. When they say D&D 5e can DO EVERYTHING, they're talking about shit they had to add. After all, "only rules lawyers and autists play RAW".So how is it responsible for things other people do for it, you fucking shill?
>>93198539>they had toYou're still trying to push this weird dichotomy where the only choices a person has is:>Play the game exactly as is>Condemn the game as terrible and change itPeople make adjustments to games naturally and occasionally even accidentally. Just because you're making changes/improvements doesn't mean you're "fixing" problems, because we're talking about something extremely subjective with people coming in with extremely varied tastes and preferences. A difference in taste is not a problem unless you're autistic. It's why just about every single TTRPG comes with a quick notice to inform the GM that they are not just free to but actively encouraged to play the game in any way they personally want.I'm actually screencapping your posts as an example of just how terrible the trolls on this board have gotten, because ultimately the whole problem with you is that you need to keep trying to invent this Black and White conflict. You are nothing more than a culture warmonger, trying to pretend there's only two sides, with one side being D&D shills who claim the game is perfect, and the other side being the noble definitely-not-trolls who are opening people's eyes to the objective fact that it's impossible to play the game.The simple truth is that the game is somewhere between mediocre and good, and while it has flaws, it's entirely playable and succeeds extremely well as being a crowd-pleasing middle-of-the-road compromise game that was designed to appeal to the widest set of demographics. It's not something to fight over like you are so thoroughly committed to doing, even at the level of spreading misinformation and committing to bizarre fallacies, all which lowers RPG discourse.That's the sad thing. You don't have any actual shills to fight against, so you need to paint anyone who disagrees with you as an extremist so that your position (where the most played game is somehow actually unplayable) can even approach being considered reasonable.
>>93198952>The simple truth is that the game is somewhere between mediocre and goodNah. 5E is the worst RPG I've played that someone wanted to charge me money for.
I hate modern fantasy art so goddamn much.
>>93195964>5e is good againI've only had off and on games since it came out. (Not my preferred system). But since when did it get bad?Trick question, it didn't. Really people just got bored with it. Thus it was time for the corporation to sell you new things. Normal 5e is fine, homebrew the few things you don't like and just keep playing. You don't need to consume everything.Also keep this to the 5e thread.
If you want an example of the kind of ridiculous overhauls people have to implement in order for 5e to be playable, >>93196765 is a stunning example of someone literally rewriting half the game and still calling it 5e.
>>93199849There are players out there that are fine with 2e and have been playing it for 40+ years.There are newer players that are fine with 3.x and sometimes pathfinder 1e and have been playing them for 20+ years.There are even newer players who started with 4e and have been playing that for 10 years. I mean I assume, I've seen the first two types of groups in real life and at conventions. I've never seen 4e grognards in real life. Lets just assume they exist.And then. There are these people. The people that feel the need to constantly buy whatever is new, even before it comes out.
>>93199886>started with 3.5>didn’t move to 4e because I disliked the changes>didn’t move to Pathfinder because I disliked their changes, too>moved to 5e because I liked the changes>not moving to 5.5 because I dislike the changesWhere do I fit in this whole mess?
Is 5e finally engoodened?
sirpleasea crumb of monk changes
>>93195964>make every class now die to counterspell
>>93199802Get more experience. Be quiet until then.Don't lie about the ten games you haven't even played. Don't lie just so you can keep trolling.Go, and get experience. If 5e is the worst RPG you've ever played, you are just a child and will be treated like one.
>>93200128I have more experience than you.
>>93199915Bad taste is common and explicable, bro. This is no shock.
>>93199981Have a one (1) average extra damage on your unarmed attacks, peasant, and I better not see you beg again.
>>93198076>He did very little to change the actual playstyle of the gamebecause it's a good system, it doesn't need to alter the entire system.
>>93200128How much did WOTC pay you to post this?
>>93195964That art is depressingly bad
>>93198952You aren't interested in RPG discourse to begin with, so why don't you fuck off?
>>93202477The art's fine. It's better than most fantasy art we're shoveled these days, even. You're pissing yourself over it being a Black elf. Say what you mean and mean what you say, fucking coward.
>>93203888$0.01 was deposited to your WOTC account for this post. Keep up the good work!
>>931959645e's problems are at a fundamental structural level. Balancing some of the classes to make them less worthless doesn't fix the underlying problems.
the art is shit.
>>93195998>>93198076Is there any heavily homebrewed 5E product out there? Something like what Arcana Evolved was to 3.5. I want to check out what ppl are coming up with. (I stopped playing D&D at 3.0)
>>93204325Do you have any specifics? Any at all?
>>93204371Free League's Lord of the Rings, its their One Ring system adapted for 5e
>>93204325*fundamentally at a surface level balancing some of the classes to make them better fixes the overlying problems
>>93204586>Do you have any specifics? Any at all?NTA but Dexterity and saving throw scaling at later levels if you don't have proficiency.
>>93195979Any change after 10 years of total stagnation is treated as an act of revolutionary genius by subhuman paypigs whose only reason to live is consumerism.
>>93195964>5e is good againI thought it was the world's greatest roleplaying game? You mean to tell me it was bad this entire time and you've still been playing?
Shill thread. Filter 5e and avoid the literal shill fests as this drops like the pile of shit it is.This will only get worse.
>>93205803
>>93205803It's like throwing blood into a children't pool that's next to a hungry shark pool.You should be aware.
>>93198952>The simple truth is that the game is somewhere between mediocre and good,Nah. It's dogshit. I feel bad for all the kids who had it as their first game, it's going to take years to rehabilitate them.
anon are martials worth playing yet
Why is the 5.5e art so absolutely shithouse. Are their artists so uninspired or have they just replaced them with a bunch of AI prompters
>>93195964LMAO
it's funny how pretentious rpg connoisseurs have been so mindbroken by 5e that now homebrewing is considered anathema, if you don't play a game exactly as written you are blaspheming against the designers and it either means that the game is utter shit or that you hate it or both
>>93208741Did you perchance get in the wrong thread or you're out of meds and arguing with some imaginary one?
>>93208708When one or two characters have this hairstyle, it's totally fine and even kind of cool looking. When it's damned-near every single black character in media for the last 7 years, it becomes a sign of obnoxious, tasteless faggotry. Even the new Star Wars show has a black guy with this exact hairstyle.
>>93208783>>93208708Add the black dude from Asscreed Valhalla, he had the same hairstyle
>>93208693How many of them were "La Creatura.." ?
>>93195979It was good, though. If it wasn't good then it wouldn't have lasted longer than 3e or 4e.
>>93208790Lego Horizon game's 2nd player/NPC companion has it too. A fucking lego character.
>>932090153e and 4e didn't have livestreaming, social media, and podcasts and Stranger Things drastically elevating their pop culture awareness to outsiders.
>>93195964The fighter, barbarian, and rogue changes would be enough if 5e were a low-magic system. 5e is, however, emphatically not a low magic system.
>>93203888Really nigga?This is good to you?I cant tell if people are trolling or serious anymore.But you are right its not worse than 5e
>>93208678No lol
>>93208678No, still the same shit.
>>93208741Yeah bro, show that dirty straw man whose boss
>>93203888>You're pissing yourself over it being a Black elfHe never address the phenotype of the elf faggot, also open your goddamned eyes, how the fuck that elf looks black aside for the painfully ridiculous zoomer haircut?
>>93203888I think thats supposed to be indian or south east asian. Doesnt look african to me.
>>93209072Sounds like 5e's done an awful lot right besides just being a good game, then.
>>93209233Note that none of those things have anything to do with 5e's quality or WotC's marketing department.
>>93209233Then how come you need an update that "fixes all the problems"? Seriously mr. Shill stick with one thing and follow through on it. Otherwise i will have to rape you, and neither of us will enjoy that.
>>93209321I said 5e was "good", not "perfect". Work on your reading comprehension, and grasp the fact that a thing doesn't have to be flawless in order to be good. If that were a requirement, then nothing would be good.>>93209308Pretty sure WotC's marketing department is involved with Stranger Things and the podcasts you mentioned, else we wouldn't have things like pic. As for quality, see above point.
>>93209450>I said 5e was "good"Define good.OrJust say "I like it." It's more honest.
>>93195979You weren't supposed to point that out.
>>93209450>Pretty sure WotC's marketing department is involved with Stranger Things and the podcasts you mentionedThat was made years after the first season of the show and WotC had no hand whatsoever in the creation of Critical Role or MBMBAM or any of the other huge D&D podcasts that made every faggot buy into the game. Literally, factually, objectively no involvement.>As for quality, see above point.Didn't say D&D needed to be perfect, either, or that it was so bad that it couldn't succeed on its own merits. Just that D&D's quality is not the reason why it exploded in popularity. 5e trudged along for the first few years of publication with only mild success before wider adoption occurred due almost entirely to outside, unrelated groups promoting it incidentally.
Is the Ranger still a thematic mess?
>>93209583Yes
>>93208673It's going to suck, but it's not going to suck because of the iconic ranger's hairdo
>>93208678fighter and barbarian are fucking amazing now
>>93208741it's also funny that after you pointed it out they tried to flip the script, lol
>>93208783over saturated fashion happens all the time, remember how cool emo kids looked in small numbers, and how cringe they all seemed when too many started doing it. same deal
>>93209133how about you make genuine criticism instead of whatever else you're actually doing. you're not engaging with the topic
>>93209504>Define good.google it, you should have learned that word in elementary
>>93209504>1. to be desired or approved of.>"a good quality of life">2. having the qualities required for a particular role.>"the schools here are good"I think we can both agree that 5e is both desired and approved of by a huge number of people and so fits (1). As for (2), well, it has rules and those rules function well enough that millions of people play the game. More importantly, millions of people *enjoy* the game. Argumentum ad Populum is not fallacious when the value of the proposition is really a function of the popularity.In D&D's case, it is first and foremost a game, and a game's main function is to provide entertainment. To be "fun". The sheer number of people that have had fun with 5e means that it passes (2) with flying colors as well.
>>93209558>Literally, factually, objectively no involvement.But they literally, factually, objectively have involvement now. Half of marketing is in recognizing opportunity and seizing on it.
>>93195964Paladin was necessary. If you thjink it was bad, it's because you're a dirty hexadin player that wanted to smite 6 times in one turn.That said, you'd still be better off playing a game that commits to a specific style of play and leans into it.AD&D and especially B/X is better.Knave and Cairn are better.4e is better (though could have gone even further beyond if they had just abandoned the sacred cows entirely. Would have required choosing a different name though, and brands are allergic to the idea of new IP).Dungeon World is better (but also could have been even better if it doubled down).Dungeon Crawl Classics is better, but goddamn do they need a real editor.Because they all know what they are and focus in on that. 3.5 and especially 5e basically by the devs own admission, have an identity problem. Instead of being the best game for a specific demographic, they're trying to be an okay game for every demographic, and that just doesn't work, it leaves it constantly stepping on its own toes, and 90% of all complaints and homebrews about the game, especially from players new to 5e that don't know any other game exists, boil down to that very fact.
>>93209823>McDonald's is good 5E fans, ladies and gentlemen.
>>93209685lmao what topic? art degenerating into AI-created barely touched up garbage? writing bad? every DnD product just rehashing shit from 2e but worse?>dawn of the overmind vs spoooooky mountain with carnival scenesIf you genuinely like it, fine. But don't expect people who have seen the same company make far better material rightfully call it kinda shit.
>>93209933It's good for what it's trying to be.
>>93209841you're god damn right I want to smite over and over, and lay on hands like there's no tomorrow. I'm a paladin, you better pray I don't call my deity down on you.
>>93209839Getting involved after the game was already made popular by other people is not the same as being responsible for it's popularity, midwit.
>>93209933Nta, but>>2. having the qualities required for a particular role.TTRPG= to entertain.Food= to nourish.McDonald's isn't good.
>>93209952the topic is the class changes, and the revision of the game. you guys go out of your way to find off topic things to hate. then you circlejerk until mods have to reign you in.
>>93195964I felt like a lot of the classes were over tuned and mechanically boring. instead of interesting TRADE OFFS that actually make things feel consequential, its mostly just "x, but now get a higher bonus, can do it on a bonus action, get more spells, has an extra maneuver" etc.Instead of like, "you can sap your hp to add damage", or anything else that changes dynamics interestingly instead of just everyone can do more things more betterer. Mostly just strait pluses.I did like the change of wildshape however, now just giving you temp health instead of adding a whole entire health bar on top of whatever you have though.
>>93209955>D&D is "good" in being bland and appealing to the lowest common denominatorAnd so is McDonald's.5E fans mental gymnastics, ladies and gentlemen.I rest my case.
>>93209976you do realize /tg/ is infamous for threads going wildly off topic, right? if you want tightly curated threads about one specific subject, you can circlejerk in your general or fuck off to other sites that won't hurt your feelings>class changesthey've been asinine since paladins weren't required to be lawful good
>>93209965>Getting involved after the game was already made popular by other peopleNo, that doesn't track. 5e launched in 2014. Stranger Things didn't begin until 2016, and CR's 5e campaign (#2) didn't start seriously taking off until 2017. 5e D&D was already popular among people before either of them came along. They certainly BOOSTED 5e's popularity, but the game was succeeding in its own right already.
>>93210131>5E fans>people
>>93210151Given that a disproportionate number of them are normies when compared to other RPGs, yes. They are.
>>93209960right, and now you have to wait until subsequent turns, you can't just 200-0 a boss in one turn and leave nothing for the rest of the team to do, then be a slightly underperforming fighter with a +5 to saving throws aura for the rest of the day.
>>93210119every board suffers too much off topic shit>no u circlejerkno, I am discussing the merits of this upcoming system revision.
>>93210217then I will just play Barbarian, since they turned him into the energizer bunny and big choo choo who could.
>>93210131Set the goalposts down, retard. 5e would not be as successful as it is today without e-celebs indirectly promoting it, and then later directly promoting it by partnering with WotC after they'd already achieved unprecedented success. That's the point that's been made repeatedly, but you want to pretend like WotC did it all on their own because 5e is just that "good"
>>93210375not losing your only class feature because an enemy used expeditious retreat to go more than your move away, or put up a wall you can easily climb over but takes too much of your movement to still attack, is a completely reasonable change.Honestly, I'm not sure why rage wasn't basically always on. You get enough of them to have them up in any fight that's actually a threat, eventually just every fight. And it's not a tactical choice like wildshape where sometimes you want it on sometimes you want a totally different plan and save it for later, or to use that resource on a different feature, your options are use it or suck and there's not even anything else using the same resource.Barbarian is a a warrior sidekick, with the addition of one big button that says "on" that turns into the hulk but covered in lightning or angry ghosts or with a scorpion tail or whatever. I'm not going to begrudge them the ability to hold the button down as long as they still have timer and they're not dead.
>>93208708When did the blacks get together and decide this was the official haircut of black men?Just kidding, I already know white people made this decision
>>93195964>nu-ranger>fantasticyou got to be shitting me anon, it has the same issue as before, that level 20 is a slap in the face
>>93210938Yeah, black men are also really fucking sick of it, though some of them are still pleased to have an option other than bald.
>>93204586surethis is ignoring quick fixes like changing the duration of short rests and making classes like the monk not shit:>advantage is a shit system that dumbs down combat by removing tactical options, since once you have advantage, you have no more reason to get it again>monster balance is a complete mess, the CR system is a joke>bounded accuracy is awful, there is a middle ground between bounded accuracy and 3e outrageous power scaling, the scaling was fine before 3e.>short rest/long rest shit is retarded, no one is playing more than 4 encounters a day they should balance the game around that>skill system is an afterthought, there's zero depth, and due to bounded accuracy there's almost no different between a master of a skill and a regular person with high base stats.Whenever it's time to roll dice, the system is a cumbersome burden that slows down roleplay. The smartest thing to do is to avoid rolling whenever possible.
>>93210938I swear to god every 10 years all the big game and movie directors come together to choose the next "black important character" haircut for the decade. My favourite is when everyone had buzzcuts with a line shaved near the temple.Its like the one side shaved for women in a way
>>93211071There was a time when an artist could give that haircut to a modern, punky, alternative-y kind of girl and you'd just think>yeah that worksBut now that it's on every fucking girl, in every kind of setting, used regardless of if it makes sense, looks right, fits the personality, etc... Instead it's being used in place of giving a character a personality. It's like giving a character glasses so you know they're a nerd, but in this case, it's shorthand for "this artist is a fucking retarded faggot"
>>93211053I'm a bit rusty on level 20, but I think they improved those. I know for a fact they basically give out the previous level 19 ability as early as level 6 now. Which is fun. idk many people who play characters that high.
>>93211233all that has been changed with 5.5 2024
>>93209823holy cringe
>>93212343It hasn't and it's funny that you think it has.
>>93212343Literally none of that has changed. Fuck off.
>>93209839>recognizing opportunityIt'd take a blind, deaf, limbless man to not recognize when a billion dollar corporation uses your trademark property in a highly successful piece of media. You're obtuse as fuck
>>93195964I like how the black elf has his bow turned to the side
>>93195979I came into this thread solely to say this.5e was never good.
>>93212451>>93212496They absolutely adjusted CR in the upcoming Monster Manual. Stop talking about stuff you do not know about.
>>93215192They didn't playtest the monster manual, fag.
>>93214930You have never shot a bow before. That's normal, but not something worth bragging about.
>>93215084>>93215314Why are the jannies so thin-skinned on this board?
>>93215528They are the problem. Other way around bumpfag threads and 5e advertisement would be impossible.
>>93209657Pointing out that his statement was off-topic and out on nothing is not "flipping the script" retard, he can start a new thread if he's so keen in discussing that, i'm sure there will be plenty interested about, even if he keeps the retarded strawman format.
>>93211233>advantage is a shit systemcare to expand on this?
>>93216623NTA, but have you played D&D?
>>93216623Nta but the issue with advantage as written is that it doesn't take in consideration more than 1 source of dis/advantage (because they don't stack), for example take picrel. A partial fix to the issue is to count the individual sources of advantages and disadvantages and then applying the condition with the higher number of sources, although you may face mongoloids that would sperg out about this fix because doesn't take into consideration the "finesse" of the original game design purposely made that way to avoid people spamming buff/debuffs.
>>93211233Add also:>Death Saves are retarded: either the enemies laser focus a character with the intent of straight killing it even when downed or you get a three stooges skit with pc entering and exiting ko like nothing with no feasible downsides.
>>93203888It looks gay bro
>>93215192>all of that was fixed (lie to make you buy it)>actually i meant only CR was fixed (also a lie but this time because he doesn't even play dnd)fuck off of this board clown.
>>93216623You have to be kidding, this was one of the main issues most people had with 5e when it fucking released. HOW DO YOU STILL NOT KNOW?
>>93209015It hasn't lasted longer than 3rd. 3rd lasted 17-18 years.With that said, 5e and 5.5 will probably beat it, and might even beat AD&D's 22-23 years.
>>93218297>With that said, 5e and 5.5 will probably beat it,We're exactly at the 10 years mark, hoping that d&done can extend it for more than other 10 is wishful thinking, at best the 5e version of the game can get the second place after the ad&d era.
>>93216715>>93217107>>93216877ya, I've never had a big problem with advantage/disadvantage while playing Dnd, it could be frustrating to players that they can't always reliably have advantage and force their opponent to always have disadvantage but being able to do that would trivialize a huge amount of combat. alternatively you could just homebrew rules saying advantage and disadvantage do in fact stack, and then find yourself in the situation of having to dm fiat new sources of advantage for your monsters multiple times mid combat when you realize your players are going to death by a thousand cuts any significant threat you throw at them with a deluge of minor crowd control. As much as I dislike turning off a rogue's sneak attack at some point it makes sense to me also that I can't perform a sneak attack against an obscured target no matter how many other forms of advantage I have and that, putting someone in a rage into a blind rage is going to have a ceiling in terms of how much it can slow them down
>>93218297>3rd lasted 17-18 years.3rd ran from 2000 to 2007. Pathfinder uses 3e as a system base but it's not 3e D&D.
>>93220674NTA - it kinda is.Said this, what makes 3e "rich" is the amount of material. Yes, there is an high "noise" but there are so many things 5e just is missing 3e has.4e is a completely different beast and far from being my favorite, but it has clear design goals even if it failed some math.It's a shame that of the three, 5e is the one which is the most successful.
>>93216715>have you tried actually playing (5e) D&D?
>>93216877You perfectly illustrated the main reason why I ultimately decided 5e wasn't for me.
>>93220710>NTA - it kinda is.Nah. The systems emphasize different things when it comes to player characters.I really, really dislike how archetypes work in pathfinder.
>>93217092lmao they totally lied dood
>>93216523homebrew to add or 'fix' things in 5e is a topic that comes up a lot, so I'm willing to allow it.
>>93220201this has been discussed to death already, if you are fine with abstracting everything to literally one second roll, then sure go ahead,but most people would like there to be a difference between someone being blind, and someone being unsteady or whatever, when it comes to attacking enemies.Basically it is viewed as extreme abstraction in a game that is not simple enough to warrant it. If you think otherwise thats fine, but the majority dont. this has been said a million times by a million different people on this board.
