Mirrors Edition>Previous Thread>>93170995>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0>Mediafirehttps://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Mega Ihttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ/folder/gfASQLSB>WoD5 Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA>STV content foldershttps://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoDhttp://167.99.155.149/>Anders Mage Pagehttp://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/>White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>Thread QuestionHave you ever used a Mirrors setting or any other alternate setting?
>>93201392Play as a lupus who has no interestings other than your kinfolks and being a prick at judging others through the Litany.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2BRb_0RT9wnew parenting short
>>93202604>Have you ever used a Mirrors setting or any other alternate setting?Kinda, we played some more out there scenarios but we didn't explicitly state that they were mirror world.
>>93202669Motherfucker is uploading too much stuff for his usual schedule.
>>93202604>Have you ever used a Mirrors setting or any other alternate setting?No, but I do like the "fantasy peoples".
Why do people say Werewolf 5th is like Forsaken? Is it just the general tone? Forsaken to me makes you feel more like an apex predator in an esoteric and terrifying ecosystem you can shape and twist by using your human side and human means. The Hisil is a dangerous place but it's a place part of you still feels comfortable in.Gaia's death throes in W5 make it difficult or borderline impossible to have more than a brief scene in the Umbra, so I don't see anything like entire sessions taking place there.Mechanically, I like W5, but I'm not really a fan of anything else in there. Making Gaia outright dead and the Garou nation shattered and defeated really makes the setting utterly dismal, and I can only be so depressed.
>>93202944Because it's more street level and removed a lot of what makes WtA WtA. It didn't really replace it with anything that makes WtF WtF, but y'know.
>>93202669>OH FU-This is literally the hardest I've ever laughed to anything WoD related.
>>93202957You just described WtF 1e.
>>93202957Ah, okay. It's a shame because hearing "W5 is just Forsaken!" got me to at least check W5 out, as I really enjoyed WtF (probably more than Apocalypse). I was pretty disappointed with what I ended up reading.I may finally have convinced my group to give Werewolf a chance, and since they really enjoyed and put in the work for the mechanics of V5, I was going to use W5. Means of gaining back Rage and the Harano/Hauglosk dichotomy are kind of vague rules-wise though. Any recommended homebrew?
>>93202604I have a player who is looking to make a character. Says he wants to play a very knowladge based scholer type character who is very good at crafting. While also being the type to expand his domain and influence over mortals. What clan would suit him best and is there rules for crafting magic items?P.S He dosent want to do Tremere because he rankles at authority and just would not be able to coop with the clan weakness of blood bonds.
>>93203079Dominate Malkavian or a Toreador.
>>93203079Tzimisce, unironically.
>>93203079Tzimisce... but the player will be limited in the materials he can use to craft. Namely, *people*.
>>93202669I just want the fucking murder mystery/traitor plot to resolve already
>>93202837Have you ever used them at the table?>>93202944>Why do people say Werewolf 5th is like Forsaken?Because it is a derivative of WoD with many changes people dislike. Stuff like the lower power floor, less captain planet stuff cutting many of the more shaman/mage like merits.>>93203077>Any recommended homebrew?Just use some medicine rules like to treat Harano/Hauglosk.
>>93202604Question - is sovereign the autonomy somewhere here. Can find it in the fules.
>>93203444*Can't find it
>>93203434>Have you ever used them at the table?Unfortunately, no.
>>93203138Same.
>>93203444>Question - is sovereign the autonomy somewhere here. Can find it in the fules.The only version I knew was on 1d4chan, odds are there is a more fleshed out version in the fan game discord but I never looked for it.
>>93203466Good luck finding an excuse to use them. As much as I like the idea they feel out of the genre these games are made for.
>>93203493I think some, like the Atlanteans and the dhampirs, can work.
>>93203506those work relatively easy, I was talking about the automatons and orcs.
>>93203526The clockwork would work well with Lost. Fuck, I think there was already something very similar in a 1st edition book.The orcs... agree.
if I want to play Mage which edition should I play?
>>93203611Awakening 2e
>>93203611sorcerer
Which splats are probably the most obnoxious to be around? I feel like most Garou would be pretty unbearable to be around. They're all these angry, abrasive and self righteous assholes. Like if they ever somehow managed to intergrate themselves with human society openly, I guarantee they would be the kind of people to post those werewolf memes unironically. In the CofD side of things, I guess it'll have to tbe Prometheans 'cause of the whole Disquiet thing.
>>93203673>Garou.Some of the other Fera are worse.>CofDBeasts and 2e Awakening's mages.
>>93203611Sorcerer or Psychic are easier to play than either version of Mage because of their power scopes.
>>93203673>Which splats are probably the most obnoxious to be around?The order would be something along the lines ofMage>Beast=Promethean>Changeling=Mummy>Werewolf>Geist>Vampire> Hunter
holy shit i am playing v20 with newbies and it's really fun! suddenly i have players making faux pas in elysium and trading insults with Toreador over it (something i never seen ingame at all), making stupid as f deals with Setites that will definitely come back to bite them and make really hilariously poor decisions when dealing with hunters: two out of three players picked the Hunted flaw and left some hunter corpses out in the streets "as a message".while still roleplaying their character very well
>>93203733kekWhat's the coterie like?
>>93203673simba are worse than garou when it comes to that with even less to show for it and kuei jin can also pretty bad when it comes to that
>>93203732>Mage>Beast
>>93202944What does the garou do now? Just feel sorry for themselves? I heard that they also nuked the garou rich oral tradition, making it like 1e Requiem.>>93203732Why Geist above Vampire?
>>93203752>Why Geist above Vampire?Because if they are talking to your character they want you to deal with the dead one way or another. Imagine Jehovah's Witnesses with actual magic powers.
>>93203752You can argue that most vampires are at least self aware that they're damned parasites, while Sin-Eaters are usually splintered groups of humans with no real universal understanding of their powers and they frequently do abuse them for personal gain.
>>93203742first we have a nepo baby who, after studying medicine decided to test the theory of "Am I rich enough to kill a totally random person?" and just happened to target a random Gangrel instead.... The entire encounter lasted about 8 seconds, and that already included the embraceOur Toreador was groomed by his sire to be a swordsman and a sports driver because the sire said he despised how their clan had turned from knights to weak artisans. But after his embrace the player character found out that his sire was only in his 70 to 80s and had never seen a real knight in his life or unlife and now they hate each other and wait for an opportunity to kill each other Highlander-style.And finally, an assamite lawyer who thinks his entire clan is crazy and not worth interacting with
>>93203611Ascension Revised. Just ignore the “bad guys already won” doomer shit Paradox keeps injecting
>>93203732That’s Dreaming Changeling, right?
>>93203831>assamite lawyer who thinks his entire clan is crazy and not worth interacting withHoly shit, an ass mite with IQ over 90!Shitty clans/10, but still looks like a fun coterie.
>>93203845>Shitty clans/10, but still looks like a fun coterie.i love this actually because: all the players created their characters alone with me over the last week and without any input from me (in that matter) chose to hate their clans
>>93203831>But after his embrace the player character found out that his sire was only in his 70 to 80s and had never seen a real knight in his life or unlife
>>93203733Damn, they sound like the ideal player. Willing to do stupid shit while still actually roleplaying. I would kill for players like that.
>>93203842>That’s Dreaming Changeling, right?I don't know or care all that much about Dreaming, the Lost are just insufferable because of how much bullshit they have access to and how much incentive they have to fuck over most mortals.
>>93196082It really depends on what you think is interesting but I'd be stunned if there wasn't something in there for you. It won't be required but I don't think it'd hurt.>Chapter 1Loads of roleplaying advice and examples covering Origin, Clade, Integrity, Aspirations, Anchors, and Touchstones. Lots more information in how those things can be viewed too, such as Conspiracies that divide Clades into more than the 5.>Chapter 220 Adaptations so each Clade gets a choice of 5 for their Clade-specific ones and and 6 for their universal. It's expanding all the core Forms to be "advanced" that let you spend starting merit dots to change how they work, and it's introducing 5 more. Allayed (who can shift their Scars around), Ambivalent (unclear/multiple Origins), Dedicated (failed half-Deviants), Summoner (self-explanatory), and Transitional (unclear/multiple Clades). Then there is just a load of Merits including some that work like Devotions from VtR, basically new and expanded powers building off of Variations.>Chapter 3 & 4Loads of new Variations/Scars/Deviations. See picrel for the list but it'll also include rules and guidelines to make your own. Inspired Variations are examples of how to do that by stealing from existing Variations.>Chapter 5More roleplaying advice but this time covering how you build a character. It comes at it from a few angles and goes into how you get from concept to character and all that jazz.>Chapter 6This is all about character arcs. Where you start, where you might end up, and pacing that out in a chronicle. It also includes deeper dives into Catharisis and the mechanics of End Stage.>Chapter 7Finally, a chapter all about the Cohort and how Deviants fit together as a group. Including a fairly extensive metacurrency called Cohort Static for modelling the push and pull of their relationships. Additionally there are Techniques which is a new mechanic for utilising Variations in novel ways and acquiring new utility with them.
>>93196082>>93203956I ran out of space but Eric's Patreon has a good amount of spoilers for the content if you want to see the sorts of stuff that'll be in it. You don't need to pay anything, just join the free tier. Although if you do pay you can get access to the full plain text draft of the book.https://www.patreon.com/Dayzdark/posts
>>93203920>I don't know or care all that much about DreamingThey’re Otherkin: the Game>the Lost are just insufferable because of how much bullshit they have access toI mean that’s the reason why they’re able to go toe to toe with other splats. Mages have the greatest power, Vampires always have superhuman abilities, Werewolves have the easiest access to aggravated, Changelings have easy to access contracts. And it’s not like they can use them willy nilly or flexibly>and how much incentive they have to fuck over most mortals.You mean emotion harvesting, right?
>>93203673I truly, genuinely hate the Garou to the point that I wonder what the writers were thinking when they came up with them. They might actually be in the top 10 least likeable characters in all of fiction.
>>93203978>You mean emotion harvesting, right?That is the least aggravating they they could do 90% of the time. they can induce bedlam, curse you or drain your willpower.
>>93204031>what the writers were thinking when they came up with them.Captain planet and 90s edge because werewolves were a blank slate.
>>93203611Ascension Revised
>>93204031Noble savages tropes + ecological themes + the punk intergenerational hatred & hate your family + white guilt/sins of our fathers + attempt of deconstruction of the focus D&D gives to combat.
>>93204041>they can induce bedlam, curse you or drain your willpower.First off, you do realise what vampires do on a daily basis and what werewolves do whenever they’re peeved? Second off, >bedlam Would only be used if either the Changeling is insane (which is quite likely considering the Wyrd necessary to cast the thing in the first place) or desperate, as the sheer energy released could draw in True Fae and Huntsmen like change to a hobo>
>>93204052>werewolves were a blank slate.This is one reason for why 1e Forsaken splats were so anemic.They don't have archetypes like fairies, mages or vampires.
>>93204077Forsaken splats are cool though
>>93204031I don't know. The fact they're sometimes basically retarded furry superheroes at times is annoying, but I do like how they're abrasive monsters that can't really conform to humanity while still serving a vital purpose. Bears and tigers are terrible and cannot at all function within human spaces, but they're doubtlessly natural and needed. Granted, it's an element that's better realized in Forsaken.
>>93204073Are you talking about 1e Changelings?
>>93204090Did 2e make more retarded decisions than the already retarded “Kith doesn’t restrict Seemings”?
>>93204109That's one of the only good things about 2e
>>93204114You’re joking, right?
>>93204109Long story short, as a template ability, changelings can just cause bedlam pretty much at will, drain willpower of anyone they touch and inflict pretty much any condition on mortals by talking to them.
>>93204122Why would I be joking? There isn't any reason why all Kiths should only be in a singular Seeming. If you can justify it you should be able to have it. It's more flexibility to express interesting concepts.
>>93204122No, that restriction was added a whole lot of nothing to the game.
>>93203751You've never talked to a Magefag I see.
>>93204136WHAT THE KENTUCKY FRIED FUCK ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Fuck me I knew 2e raped the splat, but to death!?>>93204139>>93204143But you get silly combinations like Ogre Romancers or Wizened Gargantuans!
>>93204136Somehow less broken than what Hill planned.
>>93204156But the question wasn't about the players, it was about the splats.
>>93204156>*Beast violently rapes you*>“Here’s why this was actually a good thing to happen to you.”
>>93204166And Awakening are written by magefags to be “da TROO majeec!!” It’s part of the horrific irony of magefags; a game that was meant to embody the acceptance of alternate paradigms turned into a ridiculous power fantasy
>>93204163>But you get silly combinations like Ogre Romancers or Wizened Gargantuans!Maybe (you) do, but like I said if you can justify it you should be able to do it. Games shouldn't cater to the lowest common denominator who can't think outside of rigid boxes.
>>93204166>Mages old and new alike canonically believe themselves superior to every other splat (let alone mortal humanity) and they're not shy about expressing it>they canonically know the real truth of how everything works while everyone else is groping blindly in the dark>they have the most raw power of any splat and the most potential for OP bullshit thanks to their flexibilityThat trifecta is the perfect recipe for unfathomably obnoxious arrogance, and therefore it attracts players with that mentality, A.K.A. That Guy's.
>>93204177You can’t just eschew categorisation. A better solution would be doing something similar to Trinity Sphere grouping (IE Ogres associated with Beasts and Elementals, so you can have stony Ogres or yeti Ogres). That way you get greater flexibility without it being an utter mishmash like 2e
>>93204163>Ogre RomancersSome TF did read too many romance novels.>Wizened Gargantuans!Please understand, the stairs scaped, and somebody had to reach the upper shelves.
>>93204175>>93204190As an Ascensionfag, I disavow Awakening.
>>93204195Or you could just not be a retard about it? Like, if you can't figure something out maybe don't make a stupid character?
>>93204190Still better than b*asts
>>93204202>Ascensionfag>"No you see MY paradigm is the only REAL reality and everyone else is a faggot retard living in a lie"Even worse.
>>93204190You know that's not actually how the game works so why would you act like it? Unless you've just unironically bought into Magefag propaganda because you're a dumbass,
>>93204202I wholehearted agree>>93204204And if there’s nothing stopping that stupid character from being made?
>>93203673I don't know if they're worst, but the Garou are definitely up there. As for CofD, I agree on Prometheans.
>>93204169Anon... did you read the books?Only 1 or 2 of the 7 families are about rapists, the rest depends on the hunger.
>>93204212You do realise that only applies to Rigid paradigms?
>>93204230>Only 1 or 2 of the 7 families are about rapists>ONLYThat’s already one too many
>Be kinfolk>Hook up with this hot chick at a moot>Find out later she’s a LupusWhy did Gaia do this to me?
>>93204222>And if there’s nothing stopping that stupid character from being made?So, in RPGs characters are made by two sorts of people. There are "players" who make "player characters" and generally have free rein to make the sort of character they would like to play as and they make only one of these. Then you have "game masters" (called "storytellers" for WoD) and these make "non player character" and they have even more free rein to make a host of characters for players to interact with. Characters don't just appear from the ether but they're constructed by these players and storytellers. There is therefor always something stopping a stupid character from being made because it's not an automated process. Additionally, the storyteller can tell a player that they're not allowed to make a character should they deem it to be a bad fit. So because its peopel making characters the only way stupid characters get made is by stupid people making them, or by people in a group who have all agreed that stupid characters are fun. So unfortunately you will be makes a lot of stupid characters but fortunately won't ever be at a table to play them.
>>93204230>Only 1 or 2 of the 7 families are about rapists,
>>93204052>>93204065Environmentalism was never cool. For most of living history it's been seen as an effeminate sissy thing so it negates all the cool qualities that werewolves should have.>>93204088>but I do like how they're abrasive monsters that can't really conform to humanity while still serving a vital purposeThe problem with that is humans are the ones who play RPGs, so there must be something relatable or interesting about them. Garou don't have personalities. They don't have personal struggles that exist independently of the metaplot. Yes, they have clan politics, but those are all because of Muh Gaya Muh Triat war. Pretty much everything in WtA is downstream of that so nothing is truly personal.
>be makesThat explains it
>>93204136Don't forget, you can't resist getting Ravished. I presume you're talking about hexes/curses with the last one, but they don't do Conditions, they do Tilts which are similar but are usually more short-term and you can't farm Beats off of them. And it isn't just to mortals, but anyone. Also unresistable. This is also ignoring how ripping away their Mask lets them get auto-successes on Contracts equal to their Wyrd, which is insane.>>93204165In what way?
>>93204279I accept your concession
>>93204218It's more accurate for Awakening, even if not completely so. Like, they don't know everything, but they have a big picture understanding of how everything works.
>ESL can’t readFigures
>>93204238It was introduced in the player's guide, and Anakins were to be big monsters.>The Begotten do not always fully understand each other, but they understand the Talassii least of all. Reclusive by nature, the Captors have borne the sting of a single Hero’s curse for millennia, branding them as kidnappers at best and rapists at worst. The Talassii may kidnap, but they truly excel as jailers.>The Talassii’s current name stems from Talassius, who led the raptio, or forced abduction of women, against the Sabines in early Roman legends. In that context, the cry “Talassio!” meant “for Talassius,” identifying who a particular abductee was intended for. While the Sabine women were not sexually violated, they were seduced into marrying their captors with promises made by Romulus himself. Still, by the time an imprudent brood of Captors indulged their Horrors and re-enacted the rape of the Sabine women on a band of Heroes, the word “rape” meant sexual violation as well as forced abduction.
>>93204281>In what way?Lostlings could only ravish people for glamor.
>>93204230>>93204265The rape guys are actually about abduction, but people tend to think of them as rapists even in-universe do to the most famous of them abducting and raping some Heroes. While it's pretty fucked up, I'm less bothered by it than some people because it's closer to the old school kind of edgy that WoD used to have going for it than most of the newer stuff. Still, it definitely isn't doing Beast any favors.
>>93204273>The problem with that is humans are the ones who play RPGsPlaying a monster that is naturally inclined to fighting human civilization and culture is part of the appeal to me, it's very unique and their perspective isn't hard to understand
>>93204197A bodice ripper is more like a high physicals fairest.
>>93204318Just double checked, it's actually called Reaping, Ravished is the Condition it applies. and both Hill's draft and the final version could do it. In fact, the final version is slightly worse, because Hill's version says it usually doesn't require a roll, while the final version just says it doesn't.
>>93204364NTA but fuck me I hate how much 2e destroyed CtL
>>93204273I hate tree hugging hippies who barely understand basic ecology as much as the next guy, but environmentalism doesn't have to be stupid and effeminate. Teddy motherfucking Roosevelt is living proof of that.
>finally get a chance to run Hunter: the Vigil, after planning on doing so for years>session 1 finishes>shocked by how much of a hit it is with my players>realize in the aftermath that...I still don't know what to do with my main groupSo quick breakdown: The players have been called together by a mysterious organization who has a disturbing amount of info on them. They're sent to a small town in rural ontario to investigate a strange murder, where they keep encountering a foreign, religious group(similar to mennonites/amish). Said group is openly hostile to the outsiders without being outright violent, and non-members tell them that a bunch of them have gone missing with the murder.My plan for the killer is that he's a slasher-turned-ghoul by an anarch seeking to establish a barony, in this town that's close-ish to a larger city. To establish his group, he's offing a non-human group in the area, a resident settlement of Not!Deep Ones.Herein lies my issue, though. I don't know whether or not I should have the not!Deep Ones be an insidious race, like the actual Deep Ones, or just a group of monsters that live generally peacefully with humans and want to be left alone, more like lovecraft Ghouls. The players have encountered the group already, and spoken to a leader, who have made it clear they're very insular. I also have a local native tribe who seem aware of them, but they might, again, just be 'we know they aren't human, but they've kept to themselves for centuries so whatever'
>>93203967Thanks a lot man for taking time out of your day to make this. I'll probably use Deviant to make a Chainsaw Man campaign some day but for the moment i think Savage Worlds can work for what i had in mind.
>>93204163>But you get silly combinations like Ogre Romancers or Wizened Gargantuans!and that is a bad thing?
>>93204389Oh yeah, I remember you talking about this a few threads agoI’d say make them insular but chill. The fact they’re so open to diplomacy and just stand-offish rather than threatening or convincing would make it hard to pivot towards insidiousness
>>93204331Yes, but the there are too many rape apologies like "the rape of Sabine women wasn't a rape, they were seduced", "tried to sexually rape a band of heroes" and "we are jailers, not kidnappers or rapists">>93204364Did they fix the Seemings so they aren't unplayable.>>93204374WW writers have a weird idea of character agency.
>>93204411well, I wouldn't call them open to diplomacy. Right now there are non members who live in town with them, but it's like a 'don't bother me and we'll leave you alone' sort of situationand then the hunters came in and literally the first thing one of them does is walk into their church prying for answers(he's a """catholic priest""", and they are 'his people')
>>93204389>have encountered the group already, and spoken to a leader, who have made it clear they're very insular.You can have a majority that just wants to be left alone and maybe a minority that wants to make sure the pcs will leave them alone- by permanently silencing the pcs.Or maybe a family needs one of the pcs for procreation purposes...
>>93204428>but it's like a 'don't bother me and we'll leave you alone' sort of situationExactly, they’re not pushing any kind of agenda, so it’d be hard to pint them as insidious>and then the hunters came in and literally the first thing one of them does is walk into their church prying for answers(he's a """catholic priest""", and they are 'his people')Yeah that just reinforces the first point
>>93203673I'd say the fire and brimestone kill em all hunters are really fucking tiring to be around. Though they won't rage spergout and possibly kill you like a tilted woof could. unless they learn you aren't human
>Fellow player chooses to play as a Caitiff>Picks Celerity, Fortitude, and Potence as his disciplines
>>93204570I'm ok with that.
>>93204570Kill him. Kill him now.
>>93204377>Teddy motherfucking Roosevelt is living proof of that.That may be true but people who say this tend to be the most insufferable nu-males of all time.
>>93204389I'm glad to see that you got this game off the ground. I personally would say make them insidious. Maybe give them the ability to save some of the humans, but with your other antagonists coming in as well, you risk turning the game into the players defending fishmen from your would-be Baron. Which IMO sorta undermines the corrupted fishing villains vibe.If you want some weird twist, have the humans remain fully pacifistic but make their deep one overlords murderously hostile. Just my two cents, ultimately the best play is get a feel for your players and what they would vibe with the best.
>>93204735They idolize Teddy because he's a heckin' wholesome man who busted trusts and saved the environment!I idolize Teddy Roosevelt because he put those new money Robber Barons in their fucking place, was willing to get his own hands dirty in war, appreciated the beauty of nature without being a kumbaya bitch about it, and was one of the few Presidents to be perfectly honest about force projection in the realm of politics.
>Can’t find anybody to play Dreaming with meThis truly is the Endless Winter.
>>93204800Most otherkin moved on and/or became trannies.
>>93204826A surprising high amount were just for the lulz
>>93204867I remember a girl telling me how she loved having her horns sucked during foreplay. The internet used to be cooler.
For me, it is Clan Giovanni
>>93205026>t.
>>93205026It’s Hecata now, you Soprano LARPing cousinfucker, and don’t you EVER forget. Unless you want to me to send in the Harbingers again.
>>93204999I tried online dating in my teens. Met a guy who was as weeb as I was, but after a week of chatting he dropped 'I'm actually a wolf in a man's body', and I noped the FUCK out of that relationship.
>>93205050>not dating the "i'm actually a hyena in a girl's body" otherkin
>>93205026Ventrue are my favorite. They're a wonderful twist on a classic archetype.
>Caitiff>Tremere>VentrueAny other Clans that signal that the player is going to be the most boring person ever to play with?
>>93205101>Malk>Tzi>Lasombra
Is there any explanation for why WW went with Seth for the snake clan?>>93205026Why?
>>93205115>Malk>When Fishmalks existMalk players can be annoying or borderline disturbing, but they are NEVER boring.
>>93205101perhaps other people had better experiances with them but as far as i can tell clan nosferatu has exactly 3 personalities between them, tech bro, spy and cleopatratalking about both player and npcs
>>93204418>Yes, but the there are too many rape apologies like "the rape of Sabine women wasn't a rape, they were seduced", "tried to sexually rape a band of heroes" and "we are jailers, not kidnappers or rapists"I agree, but I also get the last one. It's like your great granddaddy fucked a goat, and now your entire family is known as goat-fuckers. Rejecting the kidnapping part is dumber for me.
>>93205117>Is there any explanation for why WW went with Seth for the snake clan?conan>https://conan.fandom.com/wiki/Set
>>93205117>Okay, we have this Clan with Egyptian aesthetics>Now which Egyptian god was the baddest motherfucker to ever exist?
>>93205153Oh, thanks.>>93205154Sekhmet would make the most sense, but they would have "felidis" as their clan discipline.
>>93205175Imma felidis nuts in your mouth
>>93205175>Oh, thanks.yeah it's also the reason why (s)seth is the god of yuanti in dndat least people still know set is a egyptian god so he does not have it quite as bad a dagon, but as far as old school trpg goes it's mostly conan set with some egyptian stuff mixed in
I hate OsirisAll my homies hate Osiris
>>93205199snek
>>93205199setite enlightenment score +5your monthly dose of cocaine laced blood has been increased
>>93204800Wanna play an online game? I'm down to trying some Dreaming myself
>Resources 5>Generation 5>Lucky merit>Animal Magnetism meritYep, it’s VtM time
>>93205551>>Animal Magnetism merit
>>93203138The fact none of you have posted this yet is insulting. Also how do you guys handle your hunter’s lives? Like what do they do for a living?
>>93205820>taken while Door was still in america
>>93205865Gonna be honest I'd like some clarification on the timeline. First episode made it sound like they had only moved back to England a few months ago. Then the Horse Audiolog made it sound like they all came together. But apparently D and Marckus have been in England for two years now? Door could have arrived at the same time and just not joined the Arcanum because it's too book-learny for him, or he arrived later. Now I'm wondering how old Marckus was when he left, it sounded like him and Door were together on the road with D for a while. I say this just because they should get their timeline straight, lest it undermine the immersion.
This is one fucking crazy merit for just 2 dots
>>93206053Well, it doesn't impact that much most games, so it's cheaper. But yeah, merits have always been some of the coolest things you can get.
>>93206053Like >>93206135 said, it’s cheap mostly because it doesn’t have any immediate results
>>93205945He also could just not be there since him and Boy seemingly set their activities around eastern standard time.
I really like the idea of running a big-fish-in-small-pond game, I'm imagining a 1-on-1 game where the player is the only supernatural in the region and their only interaction would be with the mundane.Probably using Mage since it makes the most sense for a mage to become one all on his own but I bet I could also do it with Vampire or whatever else.Maybe even do as little preparation in terms of story as possible, you're a regular guy who suddenly woke up as a mage and the game is about exploring what you do with that now.Maybe you go on a power trip, maybe you keep it to yourself while occasionally doing good, maybe you go full blown cult leader, who knows?Does that sound like fun? Has anyone done something like this before?
>>93204246What, wolf girls are literally the fetish of choice for some people.Also, in a moot it was always 50/50, what do you expect.
You know, after being immersed with "Kindred" and "Cainite", calling them "vampires" feels goofy now.
>>93205820>Also how do you guys handle your hunter’s lives?It depends on the game and what the ST wants to deal with. Poor hunters require hand waving and/or thought on how they can spare the time for the Vigil while the rich need a bigger incentive to stay on it.
>>93204246Werewolves are neither wolf nor human, worrying about beastiality with monsters is the least of your concerns.Just make sure she's not a fucking Black Fury
Didn't get to post in time but thank you to the anons who gave me pointers on casting magic in front of mortal minions and that kind of thing.
>>93203611M5 fan made. Streamlines system quite well to X5 tier of simplicity while also retaining lot of cool ideas
Is hunter the parenting more based upon hunters hunted/h5 where hunters are mostly, regular humans or htr where imbued have minor/major powers?
>>93206730And to think I heard some people say that WoD brainrot isn't real...
>>93206730I like to use word "lick" and bloodsucker as it rhythms with prick and cocksucker. As modern vampires are assholes and gays by default
>>93207882Hunters hunted only two “hunters” used sorcery so far
>>93207882>I think it's technically H5 but practically it's more like Hunters Hunted. I know they said they took influence from Vigil in terms of tone and how it "functions". I'm 90% sure I can name the tactic they used to defeat Kevin.>Referencing the SI was a baffling choice though because they've set it before the SI made their presence known. I'm pretty sure they're just kowtowing to Paradox out of fear of getting the rug pulled out from under them.>Is Paradox really super autistic about fan content like that being made ONLY with 5e stuff? (unless it doesn't exist yet)>I vaguely remember hearing something like that but I never delved too deep.>Dark Pack is relatively open, but it IS an agreement you must consent to in order to make any fan content. However, there is one reason Alfabusa and co would be scared shitless, Dark Pack can change literally any term of the agreement with only 30 days advance notice.>We know their vidya license is WoD5 only, so it is a reasonable fear that they may change Dark Pack. They already had to abandon one IP due to copyright, I am not surprised they want to future proof what they make now so Paradox can't rugpull them.
>>93203752The book contradicts itself by making Garou in W5 having selective memory of the events that came before. At same time they remember the War of Rage, they say they "do not know anything at all about other Shapeshifters" for instance. It's a real mess of a show.>>93203079Go for Toreador of the Crafters Guild. Make him have at least Occult 3 and Technology 3 so he can start building up and planning how to do magic itens.I do not remember seeing any rules in VTM on how to build artifacts, so good luck doing that.>CAPTCHA: ARTX
>>93203673I wouldn't say Promethean being the worst in nWoD because it's not their fault this shit happens. They aren't actively doing it.I would say worst to be around in nWoD would be Beasts.
>>93203733>>93203831>>93203863Real or not, please report everything to us. From the beggining to current situation of your players.
Man, thinking of a paradigm is really fuckin hard
>>93208658Have you checked the examples yet? They really help put your mind on track
>>93208797I don’t remember seeing any, beyond the general beliefs of the traditions anyways. I’m reading revised for reference
>>93208837M20 has some paradigm options, but good luck finding it on that mess of a book.
>>93208658just take a look at crackpot theories.
>>93208837Oh sorry, I mean the Tools and Practices section and cross referencing it with Foci creation. Puts you in the right mindset of “how would a specific view on reality manifest its tools?”
>>93208900I was actually avoiding that section a bit just because I remember someone advising to try and figure out “how your character thinks they are able to do magic” and then from that extrapolating foci and such.>>93208888I might try and look at that
>>93208948Oh yeah, the whole Avatar thing. There’s that first PC from that Norfolk Mage Game who sees connections like strings, like the classic “cork board with stringed tacks” to indicate a greater informational project, due to his desire for investigation and understanding. Great example of a paradigm
What would be the best Tribe for a Garou who styles himself as a showman pro wrestler? The Hulk Hogan-like hero kind.
>>93209042>What would be the best Tribe for a Garou who styles himself as a showman pro wrestler? The Hulk Hogan-like hero kind.Hobo, Irish or Feminist.
>>93208160Thanks fren. We are playing Vampire Revised: I dont know what the technology skill is.
>>93209042Well brother is it a work or a shoot?Because if it's a work dude then maybe he's a Bone Gnawer but if it's a shoot then maybe he's a Fianna or Get - HH
Which Garou Tribes would be present in the Pyrenees and surrounding regions? (northeast Spain/south and southeast France)>Bone Gnawers and Glass Walkers are litteraly anywhere there is major civilisation centers>Silent Striders due to the North African diaspora>Silver Fangs, mainly House Gleaming Eye. House of Unbreakable Hearth and the fallen House Conquering Claw are also stated to have originated from the general area.>Fianna on the Atlantic side around Aquitaine>Black Furies and CoGs on the Mediterranean side; basically anywhere there has been Greeks and Phoenicians, I assume>Catalonia had a notable Germanic presence, namely Visigoths and Vandals, so GoF, maybe?Did I miss anything?
>>93209633As someone who plays two games in France (modern time and dark ages), here is a brief description:According to France by Night book, Pyrenees is a place for a secret Gurahl caern. According to Fianna and Get of Fenris book, France is a territory devided between them. Also, Get of Fenris book talks about a Caern in France, Sept of Harrowing Sky.According to Silver Fangs book, the main headquarters of Glimmering Eye House is in France.According to Children of Gaia book, there's a Caern in the center of France (I myself put it in Massif Central) which Christine de Pisan was part of during Dark Ages. Many Children of Gaia and Black Furries claim they are spiritual (and sometimes bloodline) descendants of her.However, I suggest you checking France by Night and Dark Ages France book. Unfortunatly, both contradicts one another because they weren't written by same team, so you'll need to do some thinking. France by Night is far better since they have a whole chapter dedicated to Garou and there are lots of Caern there and descriptions of each region.
>>93209633Forgot to add:According to Bone Gnawers book, they have a Caern in Paris and the top of Eifeel Tower is dominated by Weaver Spiders (you can put some Ananasi there if you desire so).
>>93208160>they say they "do not know anything at all about other Shapeshifters" for instance. It's a real mess of a show.Talking about them, how does W5 handle the changing breeds and regions where wolves don't exist
>>93209853>Talking about them, how does W5 handle the changing breeds and regions where wolves don't existOdds are they will just exist there just like the previous 2 versions.
>>93209853There's no writting on that topic. Lupus and Homid born are cosmetic choices now. When talking on Touchstones, they even advise you to choose being Human-born because "wolf touchstones aren't that much complex nor interesting for a game like this". There's also no writting on Changing Breeds aside from War of Rage and their antagonist section. At the time of Justin Achilli being the developer, he answered not planning playable Changing Breeds, but "maybe in the future". Nowadays, with Renegade as the new dev, only new books we got were adventures books and a storyteller's kit filled with new spirits which got no character sheet, only description. Renegade is planning a new flavor book with some new loresheets, but I bet it's gonna be something bland like previous books.
If Reckoning had been made today 4chan would be hunter.net, or it would be a thinly veiled pastiche of 4chan.
>>93210276hunter-net would be a mix of redditors and schizo frog/jak posters. and would somehow be filled with even more misinformation and shitflinging than it was in the original I still miss hunter-net as a concept, I think it was really cool to have the monster hunters in current era use a hidden forum to communicate
what would the spirit of ones personal computer be like? would it be hostile towards anyone else as it belongs to you? would it judge for the stuff you look at online?
>>93210276Not really, it would be closer to a craft forum since you need more permanent info but this is coming from a practical perspective so out the window it goes.
>>93210543odds are it would hate me given the reason it was given to me and how damaged it is.
I'm running VtM (V20) for the first time and I'm struggling a bit with making vampire NPCs, especially if I have to do it on the spot. Any good resources to steal a lot of NPC statblocks from? I'm looking for simple things like generic shovelheads to unique elders. Right now I'm just handwaving a lot of stuff.Also, how does everyone feel about the official ruling of firearms dealing bashing damage to vampires? I understand why it's there, but it seems to make gunfights between two vampire groups take forever.
>>93210477Hey, at least the Union and Zero Network use forums, and nothing is stopping you from just making a hidden forum for any hunter faction. I feel like the Malleus Maleficarum would have the worsrt flame wars among the conspiracies. Their people seem like the type to argue over inane stuff due to minute differences in personal theology.
>>93210543According to Werewolf: The Apocalypse, most if not all computers would probably be little Weaver spirits. They likely would't really hate or love you, but will try and work towards building a form of you that's "perfect", yet stuck in time. Granted, most people don't turn into Drones and they're even rarely than Fomori, so you probably shouldn't worry too much.
>>93203079Out of the left field answer would be Assamite or Ravnos.
>>93206800>>93205820A little creativity goes a long way. Take your basic travelling cells of hobo hunters. Sure they may not have a job, but they have a car, and every vamp they dust has shit to pawn, and every town has someone who lost family to the things that go bump in the night, who may not be ready to light the candle and take up the Vigil but they can spare some gas, a box of ammo or whatever tools their deceased family left in their van.And if you're a working class hunter, well then you go after things in your local area, and you probably know people in the community, plus in America ammo, gas and basic shit from home depot isn't actually too expensive. It's probably comparable to a warhammer addiction.And as for rich hunters, you don't take up the Vigil as a hobby. This isn't a game about people who dabble, these are obsessions.
>>93210543In Forsaken, it would probably gain essence based on what you normally use it for, and eventually it would try to influence you and others in that direction.
>>93210579Doesn't the V20 core have premade statblocks in it? If not I'll check my books later. As for the bashing damage firearms, I like it. It facilitates melee being a viable build in a modern setting, not just a fringe use in extreme close quarters and stealth kills. It's also good enough in the justification, bullets rely on shock and hitting vital points to kill, and vampires care very little about that.
>>93210764I'd say early seasons of supernatural is good portrayal of hobo hunters
>>93205175Sekhmet makes no sense. First off she's a sun god. Second she doesn't gave the cultural cache of Set as the "bad god" (Regardless of how correct or incorrect that is)Third she's not just a goddess of the sun, she's a manifestation of the destructive power of the sun's rays. She's the vengeance of the sun. She's like the opposite of a vampire god. She's, if anything, a vampire hunter god.The only thing she actually has going for her as a suitable replacement for Set, is that she is actually a goddess who was worshipped with sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll. Or at least getting fucked wasted.
>>93210846>Doesn't the V20 core have premade statblocks in it? Yeah, but not for vampires.
>>93210875Early Supernatural is pretty much the only good Hunter related media released in the last 20 years.Before that you had bits of Angel, although of course the main character there was a vamp. Still they made a big deal out of the financial problems that come with hunting spookums
>>93210815I was asking about Spirits a few threads ago and I've got another question, if you don't mind.Spirits are animistic, they're the sum of their parts. But are they aware of that? Are they all about their concept 100% of the time (like pic related I guess), or do they have awareness to grow and absorb more? Or is it all tied to rank and rank 1 spirits are pic related, and as they grow they gain sentience?
>>93210764I think my take on it is for a working class hunter how would the scheduling work? Like how would you work a day job and then go hunting. Would you do it when you’re off? Like I had an idea for a hunter that work in some shitty little spiritual/occult shop and would sort of use customers coming in to get sage and other stuff to get leads on supernatural activities.
Can someone explain how clan cappadocian actually became so widespread they needed a culling? No one noticed how big they got, not even the head of the clan? Still can't wrap my head around that.
>>93210882She is famous for being subdued by the gods, drinking blood and excess.
>>93211050The vast majority of the people who work those sort of specialized retail positions don't get enough hours to qualify as full time employees. This is in part intentional on the part of management to avoid giving the benefits of full time employment, but in individual stores it may be down to there simply not being enough hours to give out too. But yes, such a hunter would work after hours, or on their days off, or move shifts around to get their murdering in.But having a character work around a schedule is a great source of tension for the ST. You need to go stalk the guy who bought actual magical stuff after hours but you noticed a bus ticket out of town (Or he talked about leaving early on the phone), or you were planning to check up on the girl who bought a suspicious amount of wolfsbane tomorrow but no one can cover your shift. What lie are you gonna tell your manager about why you were late?
>>93211060My personal explanation for it is Cappadocians had no real moral or practical reservations to disincentivize the embrace, and little formal clan structure so they just passively kept making more and more. Then consider their apolitical nature garnered them few natural enemies and put them in less conflicts that would cause them final death. So they steadily grew and grew until their autistic, usually with his own head up his ass Antediluvian finally noticed.
>>93211060The one whondecides they needed a culling wasn't doing extensive math about the viability of the vampire population, he had a schizophrenic meltdown/divine revelation.
>>93211050>Like how would you work a day job and then go hunting. Would you do it when you’re off?Yeah, you just take a day off after dedicating multiple weekends to tracking the dam thing.>>93211017Rank is almost equal with intelligence in that regard, until they reach rank 3 they are pretty animalistic in mind.
>>93211168Excellent, spaaaaace it is. Appreciate the info anon.
>>93211060During the middle ages Cappadocius hanged to much with Absimiliard.
>>93211017>Are they all about their concept 100% of the timeyes. although how they act might change depending on alignment, a car with a wyrmish spirit and a car with a weaver spirit will have very different yet car related goals. maybe the wyrm one wants you too burn coal and run over animals on purpose while the weaver wants you to keep it in perfect shape.
>>93211017I forget which book it is where they explain it, but the basic idea is a spirit perceives reality through the lens of its own nature - literally. So things corresponding to their nature are sharp, in focus, and fascinating, but the further away things are to their nature the murkier, less distinct, and eventually aggravating they become.And as that other anon says, intelligence is roughly correlated to Rank.0 - Insectile1 - Basic Animal2 - Advanced Animal3 - Basic Human4 - Advanced Human5 - SuperhumanAnd from 6+ they just become utterly alien to comprehend.Layered on that is the corresponding increase in complexity of a spirit as it goes up in Rank.For Example: Luna is, for all intents and purposes, an Eldritch Goddess only really fathomable in bite size chunks through her Auspices, each of which is itself a mythologically convoluted entity.
Which Tribe would a Garou who was a shut-in before his First Change be most likely to join?
>>93212308Glass Walkers if he had the choice, I'm guessing. A Homid who just stay inside all today would probably be well acquainted with the Weaver and would naturally be sympathetic to the tribe's tolerance of it.
>>93205214thank you
>>93212588We have tons of those in /an/
>>93208658go check prism of focus then. it has to be somewhere around the archive
>>93210936Alright, I did some digging. Guide to the Camarilla should have what you're looking for, it has generic archetypal statblocks. Could be easily used as a basis for any type of character you want with a clan change and a few stats here and there. Guide to the Sabbat would presumably have the same, but for more Sabbat specific stuff like shovelheads and Szlachta.
If the Br*jah are supposed to be based off the Lost Boys vampires, why don’t they have Flight as an in-Clan discipline?
>>93213196They decided they didn't want that as a power when making 1e, and when they went back on that idea they couldn't just retcon the Brujah to be able to fly.
>>93213134Nice. This is going to be very helpful. Thank you.
If you could go back in time and hijack the development of Beast, how would you turn it into a good or at least decent game?
>>93213196Huh, I had thought about asking what vamp archetype Brujah are supposed to represent last night but it seemed like too much effort
>>93213443Deviant already exists.
After getting some ananussy a couple of sessions ago, my Lasombra got some ananasi dick tonight, and I even managed to down some of his blood. Supposedly I can eventually get Protean this way, much more palatable than getting a 1st level bond with a mongrel.Hopefully before this arc is over, I managed to win either of them as a Supernatural Companion.
>>93213443I'd basically just model it after Dexter. You have this dark side of you that you have to satiate without letting it take complete control, which you do so by following a Code you can build-a-bear like you can the rest of your power set to a degree.The Hero thing becomes an externalized version of your internal. A shard of your better nature dislodges itself from your soul to become an astral entity. It goes around self-sabotaging you in an endless hunt, occasionally compelling/possessing third parties to put you down before it's too late.Build it out from there. Make it the Astral game since Mage never seems to play in its own sandbox.
>>93213196I think Elder Celerity has flight in some editions.>>93213605The hungers and families need some work too.
>>93210579There is a reason that vampires tend to use archaic weapons like swords or improvised weapons. Firearms just don't hurt vampires very much because vampires don't have vital organs. Only firearms that do mass trauma like perhaps shotgun blasts or high calibur automatic weapons (things that would legitimately rip a person apart) should even slow a vampire down, and that's before you start talking about Fortitude.So yes, firearms should do bashing, and no, vampires don't get into gunfights very often because they know it's a waste of time. They use swords or they realize that every vampire has a free source of aggravated damage when they bite and they do that.
>>93212308>>93212355How about Fianna? If the Homid in question finds himself lured to embrace the exuberance he never had before. Although, how likely are the Fianna to accept non-Celtics in their ranks?
>>93212308Glass Walker or Bone Gnawers.>>93214100You could always join a Tribe no matter your ethinic origin or genetic background to a certain Tribe (in case your genealogy can be traced).
>>93213905Absolutely. The game feels downright incomplete, but the foundations are fucked.
>>93214100So is he going to continue to be a shut-in or a drunken retard? Because the Bone Gnawers aren’t just the “Homeless People” Tribe. They’re also the Tribe for underachievers, Garou who need to join a Tribe to get legitimacy, but don’t actually want to actively do anything for or get involved with Garou society. If it’s the latter, then the Fianna. They could always use another shit-for-brains domestic abusers who doesn’t know how the real world works.
>>93214140Yes, it really needs a rewrite.>Rotten foundation.Both "host of a nightmare monster" and "reincarnated monster" can work.The second has more of a OWoD feel through.
>>93212042One example of this is Rank 3+ act like people when dipped in the Sea of Fragments where they slowly lose bits of themselves, but lower than that and they dissolve more like a sugar cube.
>>93213443I wouldn't. The concept was too broad, the fundamental idea is bad.>>93213605Literally just The Sentry/The Void
>>93214439>Literally just The Sentry/The VoidIt is more like hollow mekhet
Do you believe whatever comes out of Curseborne will be able to replace WoD in any capacity?
>>93214554In popularity terms? Unlikely, Paradox has tge brand recognition and OP is too "insulated" marketing wise.
>>93214554As a good modern urban fantasy game with actual support? Yes. As an urban fantasy game with good mechanics? Yes. As an urban fantasy series written by people who like urban fantasy and not as a license to make money from? Yes. As a culturally relevant RPG? Of course not, but 5e isn't doing that either.
>>93214554I doubt it, urban fantasy TTRPGs are niche already and it's oversaturated. You have the three WoDs splitting that fanbase, you have Delta Green, Call of Cthulu, psychopaths who would rather houserule/find a hack on Reddit for 5e, and a bunch of more native EuroRPGs for the Euro crowd. And if our Brazilian Anon is to be believed, Brazil's got a lot of demand for urban fantasy but it's been sated mostly domestically via knockoffs because ParadoxWoD antagonized the brazilian playerbase. Basically, consider how few people in the RPG community play any of the three WoDs. Now realize that's only a fraction of the potential playerbase. The only way Curseborne is taking over is if it has 10/10 mechanics, a good default setting, AND the ability to run various table's favorite autistic things.
>>93214629>Brazil's got a lot of demand for urban fantasy but it's been sated mostly domestically via knockoffs because ParadoxWoD antagonized the brazilian playerbase.Some of those were pretty old.>Antagonized hues.How many people did they piss off? I know about Irish and heard something about the Maori.
>>93214649From my very shaky memory it had something to do with that polish chick that works for them laughing off and being quite rude to claims of inaccurate translation and what the hue fanbase believed to be a misunderstanding of their country.But this is all shaky memory, if the brazil anon is here he would know better.
>>93214629>>93214649The fact every 3 to 5 years a new WoD clone is created by brazilians, it means we will never have enough urban fantasy TTRPGs. Does not matter how many we release, we will always go back to WoD. Also, the whole thing regarding Brazil controversies is about previous latin america "embassador" Alessa and whole religion issue in Brazil's section in second inquistion book or whatever.Nowadays I heard the person taking care of "latin america sensitive issues" is a... Philippine woman.It's fuinny that previous thread we had a message from official WoD discord server in polish, meaning they do have other servers in other languages. How hipocryte of them.
>>93211155"Hey, wait a minute! Necromancy is gross!"
>>93214629>>93214604>>93214564You think having Curseborne having a Critical Role tier actual play show is something possible as a way for it to gain critical mass?Or will it be being adaptable enough to be a sort of "Dude we can hack this and this into Curseborne" that it has a moderate amount of success?
>>93213443Starting off, they need to be able to stand on their own two feet. They can still be the crossover splat, but they need to be more than that. First of all, I'd include custom monster creation rules so you could do kinship stuff without crossover and allow you to play Beast as a nega-hunter game where you find unique monsters and try to befriend them.Secondly, better antagonists. I'd up the power of Heroes a bit and make them less 1-dimensional. I'd draw from the Imbued (they're basically terrible, Beast-focused wayward anyway) and Dark Heroes from the CofD 1e book, Mirrors (basically willpower skill monkeys). Most of them would still be crazy since they're primarily antagonists, but right now they're boring and weak enough that they're barely a speed bump. They would have access to powers that weren't completely focused on combat or even Beasts (such as exorcism powers and clairvoyance that pinpoints threats to the local hive) but the crazier they get, the more they hyper-focused they get on killing Beasts and the less they care about collateral. Hero-cults would be a thing, and they could gain their own mystical rites by going on vision quests into the Astral to win the patronage of powerful dreamborn (possibly even getting an Astral-equivalent of the Totem merit). They need the feel of a classical hero come to life. Sure, they step on the toes of Hunters a bit, but they're an antagonist splat and even if you ran a Hero-centric game, it would play differently anyway with these elements. I could see introducing an Incarnate equivalent. Rather than making them super powerful, I'd probably have it so they transcend their humanity and become a unique kind of dreamborn in the same way Heracles and Rama became gods when they died.
>>93215095Next, we get to Insaitables. They're even more awful and lazy then Heroes. Rather than just being Beasts who are stronger and worse, I'd make them so they're what happens when a larval horror doesn't get a human host. They start out as small and helpless, scavenging off of trauma, minor dreamborn, and other larval horrors until they're strong enough to start targeting Beasts. They'd be animalistic and serve as an antagonist that comes from the Primordial Dream itself which invades the Lairs of Beasts who's Horrors are seriously hurt or in a food coma. Heroes are dangerous because they're cunning, these guys are dangerous because they're strong.I'd Probably add an antagonist from the Anima Mundi. Maybe even drop some hints that Beasts used to keep things like them out of the human part of the Astral, but the Bright Dream is so big that they can't cause any real damage and are mostly a problem because they can get lost in a Lair if they accidentally wander into one. It adds something to the idea that Beasts used to serve a purpose in the past, but aren't needed anymore.For a crossover antagonist, I'd look towards the Geryo for inspiration. Geryo are antagonistic to both Beasts and werewolves and are an excuse to have a mixed game. You could introduce something like them for other splats for similar crossover potential. Vampires are the easiest, since you could just modify and expand on the Refrain from Dark Eras 2 and make it a rare, but standard part of Beast rather than a time-specific thing. Mages could have a kind of Abyssal intruder that hides out in the Primordial Dream.
>>93215101Maybe there are monsters born from exiled Gentry carving out new domains inside the Primordial Dream. While even an exiled True Fae is a bit too powerful to serve as a standard antagonist, I could see making it so there are ways to destroy their nightmare kingdoms in much the same ways Beast Lairs can be destroyed, and if it goes so do they. Being integrated into the Primordial Dream might limit them in some way, and fighting them would be more about infiltration and subterfuge than straight combat. Even if they weren't naturally antagonistic towards Beasts, with no other Fae around to feud with, they'd probably start stirring up drama with their new neighbors and might even do stuff like annex Lairs and integrate them into their kingdoms. Prometheans, Sin-Eaters and so on would all have their own stuff too, of course, but I've already put too much thought into all of this.The librarians from the Player's Guide were decent, so I'd just give Beasts social subsplats. Even if Beasts are rare, the Astral and Primordial Pathways make it pretty easy for them to organize. I'd take the dumb "teaching lessons" thing and give it to a social group. You could also have a diplomat group that tries to foster inter-supernatural interactions, and maybe one based around intergrating into a specific supernatural community. I could think of more or draw on the less good groups from the Player's Guide, but this is already a lot and it isn't like anyone actually cares.I think with all of this, Beast could be alright. It definitely wouldn't be the best game, but it could be fun.
>>93214256>>93214439Beast actually isn't too broad, it just refuse to acknowledge what it really is. Beast is fundamentally a game about boogeymen.
>>93214629>The only way Curseborne is taking over is if it has 10/10 mechanics, a good default setting, AND the ability to run various table's favorite autistic things.At the very least, running multiple different monsters together from the get-go is novel
>>93215136It's always been a bit silly in-universe for supernatural society to be as heavily segregated as it is, especially in CofD. I don't think they'd all be one big society, but you'd think there'd be enough communication to make sure you aren't going to kick off a monster war. Something like a werewolf or changeling showing up to Elysium to act as a diplomat for example.
>>93215101>That gifI really shouldn’t stick my penis in thatHOWEVER
>>93214554To me, it feels like Curseborne already suffers from the same lack of focus as DtR does. The multitude of choice all at once doesn’t seem to be noob friendly.
>>93211060Because they overembraced. They sought out likeminded individuals who were scholarly and knowledge seekers. Remember, mortis isn't just a discipline, it's a whole reason for the existence of the clan. And what better way to explore death then the dying? In VTDA you would assume most have such a small insignificant lifespan the pool of those you could embrace would be quite large. Unfortunately this brought about the Giovanni so they really fucked up
How to get Celestial Chorister tradwife?
>>93215905someone else would have embraced the giovanni, it's mentioned that augustus the fuck for some reason got several offers for the embrace and just happen to chose the one with the lowest gen
>>93215936how do you feel about joining a knight order and larp as a paladin monster hunter?
>>93215973No, he was being courted by Ventrue and the other High Clans due to the influence and wealth he managed to amass as a merchant through the Silk Road. But he caught the attention of Cappadocius because of his dabbling into necromancy. And of course Augustus was a filthy minmaxxer, so of course he chose to be Embraced by a 3rd Gen.
>>93216019I would face any manner of horror that dwells in this World of Darkness™ for my queen, if she so asks of me. I need only require her nudes.
>>93212042Very interesting, thanks anon.
Trust me bros, when I make V6, everything will be right in the world again.
>>93215179>changeling showing up to Elysium to act as a diplomat for example.Oh boy, i love the idea simply for the chaos factor. Compared to the kindred changelings move at turbo-retard speed with the ruler changing every 3 months and likewise also the attached diplomat. And even if the diplomat stays the same, he might get completly different orders, goals and resources practicaly in the blink of an eye.
>>93216054*BONK*No Tradwife for youGo to horny jail now
So thematically slashers are 'you but internal evil overwhelmed you' version of hunter like with 0 humanity/wisdom/clarity vampires, mages, changelings?
>>93215101Do you know that "hausdrachen" means "overly headstrong wife with a hot temper"?
>>93216124No, Slashers have no relation to Hunters. They’re “I’m so murderous it manifests as supernatural and/or superhuman power”
>>93213443I'd go with playable Slashers. You are, or something about you is, broken. You're a TV serial psychopath in some way or another. You try to keep it in check, or under wraps. Something supernatural means people about you might suspect you however. Your Hero counterpart is an idealised version of yourself who you have serious homosexual tension with, that part is very important.
>>93216124They’re basically the CofD version of Waywards.>>93216141I thought there was a type of Slasher that was a Hunter that was so far gone, so mentally broken, they started going after people because all people have the potential to turn into monsters. That was their twisted justification for senseless murder anyway.
>>93216154The type you’re talking about is Avengers. They pursue any serious crime that personally wronged them, ala Paul Kersey from Death Wish, but then slip overtime until they pursue any slight tangentially related to their original crime, IE “teenagers in lovers lane? They could become sexual degenerates, and sexual degenerates commit RAPE!”
>>93204109That was already a thing in 1e, winter masques i think had it.>>93204163Bedlam is still very likely to fuck you over and attracts Gentry/Huntsmen, Ravaging is an automatic breaking point, cursing/hexing requires your target to understand you and to obey or disobey your order first to avoid getting the tilt (also tilts aren't that crippling to dish out as a template ability, vamps and woofs get very similiar abilities)
>>93216247>That was already a thing in 1e, winter masques i think had it.Fuck me>Bedlam is still very likely to fuck you over and attracts Gentry/Huntsmen, Ravaging is an automatic breaking point, cursing/hexing requires your target to understand you and to obey or disobey your order first to avoid getting the tilt (also tilts aren't that crippling to dish out as a template ability, vamps and woofs get very similiar abilities)Okay, so not as bad but still retarded. Bedlam being so easy to access is still pants on head retarded
maybe Hermetics wouldn't need all those wards if they were just nicer towards spirits. Like bloody hell man have you tried offering it some tea and biscuits instead of putting it in a fucking cell.
>>93216302Yeah, Garou see them as retarded at best and evil at worst for forcing spirits to work with them
>>93215120Yeah, it's weird they wanted to make them X-men, especially since Prometheans already exist as the unfairly persecuted ones.
>>93216309we don't even need to bring up garou since dreamspeakers exist and can just walk up to a spirit without risking being killed because they don't force it to do anything.
>>93216328>even in their own splat they’re considered retardedMY SIDES
>>93216290Easy to access yes, but impossible to control except for the emotion you cause. Also it is one of the few powers that is actively resisted. Besides, the emotions it causes are obviously fae made (can't be harvested) and are a great way to get fucked over. While once a scene you can unleashe it for free to get a Beat the ST choses the emotion and (as always) how the npcs react to that emotion. So unleashing gay homo lust as a female changeling while running through a crowd of people to flee from rivals is equaly likely to get you punched in the face for being female or entangled in a manpile as it is likely to do absolutely nothing because most people have better impulse control than animals.
>>93216396Like I said, the main problem now is thematics rather than balance. High Wyrd meant the Changeling has to be both immensely powerful and austere to generate such emotions, now any Tom, Dick, and Harry can do it willy nilly. It’s like Hedge Mages casting arch sphere shit
>>93216328not just the dreamspeakers, the verbanna, some cloisters and even sorcerers can tooand if we go out of the splat again there are some koldun rituals where the koldun is just asking spirits for stuff without forcing servitude (and even the one about ghouling spirits works because the spirit wants it)
>>93216430>thematics rather than balance.It's reverse harvesting basicaly, as far as i understand it. You throw glamour around to manifest an emotion, so i don't see a problem. It was weird that in 1e you needed to be wyrd 5+ or so to even use it once a chapter.But that's a matter of taste, so whatever.
>>93202604>Inb4 touristBeen listening to the Norfolk Wizard Game audiocast lately and been intrigued on getting into WOD, but anytime I look into the rulebooks required, I am recommended the overall settings (Mage, Vampire, Hunter, etc.) along with near if not ALL of the accompanying splashbooks on various mage sects, vampire clans, etc. What would you say beyond pen, paper, and dice, is the most barebones kit required to run and/or participate in WOD?
>>93216474Not to mention the Asuza Miko who, despite dealing with all manner of youkai with murderboners, still manage to be fair with spirits. It’s like everyone and their dog is better with spirits than Hermetica
>>93216498Mage the Ascension Revised and Mage the Ascension 1st edition so you can combine the better rules with the better setting
>>93216509And for the others? Do I necessarily need all of the addendum books of vampire clans and such if I wanted to run one of those or would the base book suffice?
>>93216554Nah, just need the corebook for VtM. The clan books just help you flesh them out
>>93216500well the tremere aren't! i know they only count technically as non hermetics and even that only barely but they are also forcing spirits to do shit
>>93216134No, actually.
>>93216569Thanks anon. Makes this tabletop experience seem way more accessible, looking at pricetags on books, even used, without becoming a Gimmedat for PDFs. Appreciate your insight!
>>93216584No worries man. Just happy to help
>>93216430>now any Tom, Dick, and Harry can do it willy nilly.The effort and willpower required to become a changeling (not to speak of the slim chances of being interesting/usefull/boring enough to be stolen away in the first place) is in a different league than what is required to become most other splats (like a werewolf, beast, deviant or vampire). There are also no truly sane changelings, and neither are there many weak willed ones as those either don't even make it out of Arcadia or get recaptured very quickly, so the mental barrier to use your tools is pretty low for them. The Lost are survivors and scavengers, not always ready to face reality, sure, but they are always presented as very crafty and without much hesitation to do what is nessecary to stay free just another day.
>>93216662Now explain how a wyrd 1 changeling with tangential connection to the fae (to the point of having snippets of memory in the single digits about their time in Arcadia) can tap into the raw power of the fae instead of regurgitating a blurb
>>93216711By being a fae instead of a human. Same as with having a mask (and knowing how to strengthen/scour it), being able to harvest Glamour, use loopholes, make Oaths/Bargains, etc.. Instinct and "muscle" memory are also possible, stemming from half forgotten memories of watching their Keeper do just that. It's the same situation with the starting Contracts, it was part of the Durance. Depending on the individual a True Friend (aka loyalist) might have been forced to use Bedlam to cheer up it's master, a Bloodbrute may have had to use Bedlam to rile up his audience, and so on.Also Bedlam can be understood as an extension of mundane actions to stoke a specific emotion. By putting in the Glamour (and Willpower) to just give it that little extra push. Not everything must be understood logicaly by the changeling, just having the glamour burst outward when he realy desires to make others geel what he wants them to might even be enough.Also you aren't playing changelings who just escaped 5 minutes ago by default but instead those who had a bit of time to get aquainted with the Courts, their magic and their new life (otherwise the merit selection would need to be heavily restricted)
>>93216778Also just because it wasn't mentioned earlier:If the mask is dropped the player can decide to exchange the amount of successes he rolled for either his Wyrd or Mantle Dots as well as having it count as an except. Success, but only if the initial roll showed had any successes. The Gentry likewise have that ability and therefore can be assumed to always have at least 6 successes unless they realy want to be subtle (just to rub the power gap between them and the players realy in)
>>93216778>By being a fae instead of a human. Ah, I see. Hedge Mages and Arch Mages aren’t different after all!>Same as with having a maskWhich is an intrinsic quality of fae, even the lowliest elements of them>being able to harvest Glamour, use loopholes, make Oaths/BargainsWhich even the lowest fae can do >Instinct and "muscle" memory are also possible, stemming from half forgotten memories of watching their Keeper do just that. “Oh look, I just saw my Keeper turn that wizened into a cake, now I can turn my friends into confectionary as well!”>Depending on the individual a True Friend (aka loyalist) might have been forced to use Bedlam to cheer up it's master, a Bloodbrute may have had to use Bedlam to rile up his audience, and so on.Or they could use their Companion’s Boon or fighting prowess instead of being given the power to mindfuck people>Also Bedlam can be understood as an extension of mundane actions to stoke a specific emotionNo, you fucking retard. Mundane actions coax emotion out so the Changeling can feed. Bedlam is channeling raw emotion out of your Wyrd and shoving it into other people. Feeding from Bedlam is impossible because it is fundamentally different from natural emotion, and equating the two outside of “causes emotion” is disingenuous at best>Not everything must be understood logicaly by the changelingAnd not every fledgling vampire can dominate half the fucking city, or at all>Also you aren't playing changelings who just escaped 5 minutes agoAnd neither are you playing as sheriffs. Like I said with hedge mages and arch spheres, you can’t have starters possess midway powers
>>93216290Breaking points are good in changeling. Clarity is more like a mental health track for them than it is for most, and heals over time. It's an easy way to farm beats. And Tilts include things like being blind.
>>93216826That was ALSO added in 2e and it was ALSO completely fucking retarded>oh yeah, I drop this natural process out of my own will, therefore I get super empowered and stuffIt’s the equivalent of saying “I lift up this rock, therefore I instantly get three dots in strength”. Defying natural processes with your own effort should be an expenditure, not a boon
>>93216325From what I understand, they combined two different game ideas together and pre-rewrite, Matt was actually asleep at the wheel and let the freelancers with no actual experience who didn't communicate with each other handle everything. The game literally never had a chance.
>>93216878>you’re rewarded for slapping your sanity aroundTHATS IT. THAT IS FUCKING I T. I’d be fine with the Wyrd 1 bedlam. I’d be fine with the bullshit hexes. I’d even be fine with the willpower drain. But REWARDING CLARITY BREAKS when maintaining your fractured mind after experiencing some of the worst the Worls of Darkness has to offer IS THE MAIN THEME OF THE FUCKING GAME!? Holy shit whoever wrote 2e deserves to be shot
>>93216899I can't believe no one has brought up it's dead easy for a changeling to get better immortality then Sin-Eaters.
>>93216916I mean Wyrd by itself increases lifespan by 20 years per point. Seems a bit absurd they need even more longevity. Then again 2e sounds like it was written by the CTL equivalent of a mage fanboy
>>93216870>>93216880>>93216899You seem angry for the sake of being angry, so enjoy that i guess.>>93216916Immortality is a trap option as that only robs you of the only real escape from the Gentry.
>93216950I could say the same about your retardation>Verification not required.
>>93216899>REWARDING CLARITY BREAKSGetting stronger from the things that harm you (or becoming more like the Gentry if you raise your Wyrd) is a staple trope of rpgs since forever. Also gaining one (1) beat, or 1/5th of an exp, is not equivalent to the effort to heal that damage or the perception bonus you lose.At least read the book before posting
>>93216916Changelings escaping/being rescued from the underworld, harvesting things in the Hedge to revive the dead, creating tokens to revive the dead and getting headpats, lollypops and part time jobs from Death himself has been a thing in 1e already. Turning yourself into a semi-huntsman with severe downsides is not that bad.
>>93216975If it’s so insignificant, why include a reward at all?
>>93216584the more WoD lore you're able to both understand and incorporate in your game, the better, but there is a cut off point. If you want to run strictly Vampire or Werewolf games, don't get lost in the Mage sauce. You're only making your own canon universe more complicated and pointless with zero in-game benefit. if you're reading this and you're an avid Mage player then you admit you'd be in an asylum if we still had thosePersonally anything besides werewolf/vampire/hunter is in its own personal world. Mage needs supernatural antagonists just to fully enjoy the powers it gives you but making it all line up with each other is so pointless
>>93217018So players have an incentive to engage in actions that result in breaking points (and make the story more interesting) on their own instead of having to be forced by the ST to, for example, choose the lesser evil in a situation or suffer breaking points so infrequently the entire system might as well not exist.Games are supposed to be fun, just taking damage from things you have to do (being mean to a touchstone or telling them lies about why you where gone for months) is not fun.
>>93217069Again, it’s insignificant, like a bandaid on a bisection. Why couldn’t the incentive of the choice be the sole incentive?
>>93216916>>93216996Going down into the Underworld for a 1 time use get out of death free card is much different then cutting out a piece of your soul and burying it in a remote corner of the Hedge. If your Frailties shut it off I wouldn't even care, but if you're going up against a non-fae it might as well be on the moon.
Now is a good time to bring up the fact that with a contract, Changeling can Paradigm Shift to do one impossible action even in the human world, and one of the examples is shooting a star out of the sky
>>93217297>Changeling can Paradigm Shift>Changeling >Paradigm ShiftHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAFucking magetards have done immeasurable damage to WoD metaphysics
>>93217119You bury it in your dreams and have to convince your Eidolons to give it back, otherwise you're trapped as a Hedgeghost. Then you need to Hedgespin a new body with your Heart, during that you are very vulnerable. Also, if anyone steals your heart they can make oaths, pledges, etc. for you
>>93217297*a Royal contract in an obscure and not widely known regalia
>>93217600I love that you feel the need to say obscure and not widely known to try to make it sound better. Anyhow, Fae are actually my favourite beings, and I like both the Lost and Dreaming, I just wanted to point that out.
>>93216885The "he let them run wild" is overstated, even without "Beasts hunt with the gentry", beasts were fundamentally awful people.The only truly disconnected it was how some sample hungers didn't work as written, and beasts not actually being able to use family dinner with benevolent Changelings.But I am sure those were written in to make beast look less villain only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metals_of_antiquity> gold, silver, copper, tin, lead, iron, and mercury. Silver harms werewolves; iron harms the fae. But what about the other metals?
>>93216948It was more of a beast fanboy, it has the same idea of being empowered Like the cruella movie, modern Haley Quinn or Evelyn in that He-man show.
>>93218051lead and mercury harm (you)
>>93218051Corax and Mokole are harmed by gold.
>>93217505I don't know why I didn't remember that. I read the rules a few months ago. Not sure why I thought it was an Icon either, although I do remember getting confused about that last time I went searching for the rules too. Still better than a Sin-Eater though, which is a bit fucked seeing as how being able to come back from death is sort of their thing. And while one of the Gentry could drag them back to Arcadia, that's no more a threat than they already have to deal with. Plus, at least in 1e it's possible to die in Arcadia depending on the circumstances of your imprisonment, so in some cases you could also use it to escape.
so what's the most comfy clan/bloodline to belong to?
>>93218051Vampires can get vulnerability to silver as a flawBut really, they should be vulnerable to Gold, since that's the sun metal
>>932182062e had to nerf Sin-Eaters resurrection, and even in 1e, you lost permanent synergy dots.
>>93218004Yes, Beasts are awful, but mostly to mortals. The commonly trotted out counterexample of them helping bring changelings back to Arcadia were because the brood were a bunch of dumbasses who thought they knew more than they did and got most of their information from loyalists/privateers and it is in an example of why broods can come into conflict. I sort of got the vibe Beasts treat other monsters like family and try to be helpful. Before the rewrite, they didn't make excuses about how it's actually for their victim's benefit. And yeah, it's overstated, but not completely inaccurate. He let new writers control the conversation and didn't help them coordinate or maintain a coherent vision for the final product. Seeing as how DtD was good, it's clear he phoned it in.>>93216948The developer of Changeling 2e was the same one who did Requiem 2e, so I'm not really sure why it ended up being so self-indulgent.
>>93218268Doesn't negate the fact that changelings don't even have a limit to how often they can revive, it's just a pain to do so.
>>93218263That's not how that works. The vulnerability to silver or gold comes as chinimage for the possession of rage and auspice. You have to be blessed by the spirit of the sun in order to become weak to gold, not cursed by it.
For clarification: I am basing beasts the first 2 drafts here, not the kickstarter rewrite.>>93218343They are also awful to Prometheans, but the devs tried to cope saying it was intentional.>were a bunch of dumbasses who thought they knew more than they didThis is them and supernaturals in general, beasts are narcissistic, they don't care about the other supernaturals story or culture.Ironically enough, Beasts were supposed to deconstruct this, "no little boxes" and "bastardisation of culture".>All supernaturals as families.In the early drafts, you can notice that they didn't really like the other supernaturals, believing them to be lesser beings.A social parasite only using the supernatural community for validation and protection.>Before the rewrite, they didn't make excuses about how it's actually for their victim's benefit. Before the rewrites we had victim demonization.
>>93218343>The developer of Changeling 2e was the same one who did Requiem 2eHow can that be the case when CtL doesn't have a single dev?
>>93218208>so what's the most comfy clan/bloodline to belong to?Caitiff as long as you stay away from vampire society.
>>93218350Why does it matter? It's not realy a big deal and even Changelingfags (Hedgefags?) don't bring it up during powerwanking.It's still a hassle to recreate your body and ntil you do so you are extremly vulnerable, and that is even before we get into people stealing your heart.
>>93218483NTA but yeah they do.
>>93218483>Why does it matter?It makes death a much smaller deal in practical terms. I know you are supposed to have other ''lose your character'' options but those are much less present and easier to avoid.
How many vampires can a single Prince handle until they might need to subdivide their domain into smaller administrative regions?
>>93218768How often do your PCs even die for that to matter? Death wasn't that big of a deal in 1e either with revives comming in form of a 5 dot token or hobgoblin bodyparts. 1 or 2 side sessions and the party is full again. Beats having to make a new character in my opinion
>>93218792The prince could have something like 10 direct subordinates. any more than that and odds are the will be some delegation.
>>93218823>How often do your PCs even die for that to matter?Its not just the PCs that can be revived, I am not criticizing 2e specifically, its just that death doesn't really have all that much impact once you know the relevant of the game.It is not a bad thing per se but you need to keep that in mind as a ST and player most of the time.
>>93218452>They are also awful to Prometheans, but the devs tried to cope saying it was intentional.I'm pretty sure it was. The first draft versions of their relations with Prometheans is mostly unchanged, and was weirdly more positive than first draft changelings. While some Beasts do take advantage of them, others get super protective. The take on changelings in various places in the first draft was weirdly negative for a crossover game. You need some positive interactions to make that work.>This is them and supernaturals in general, beasts are narcissistic, they don't care about the other supernaturals story or culture.Ironically enough, Beasts were supposed to deconstruct this, "no little boxes" and "bastardisation of culture".I kind of got the vibe Beasts were supposed to be no-nothing know-it-alls who universally accept all monsters as family as some sort of instinct and just work backwards from that. While not the first draft the Player's Guide fleshed that out a bit with it literally being instinct.>In the early drafts, you can notice that they didn't really like the other supernaturals, believing them to be lesser beings.A social parasite only using the supernatural community for validation and protection.While Beasts were more negative towards other supernaturals, I wouldn't take it that far. There are examples like the above with them being protective towards Prometheans, and something sort of funny is that mages are worse towards Beasts than Beasts are towards mages.>Before the rewrites we had victim demonization.It's still better than Beasts explaining that ackshually, they're hurting you for their own good.>>93218458While I had my problems with Hill's version, how Onyx Path handled everything was pretty fucked.
>>93218916Only those who underwent the process of becoming Hollow are trivialy revived. All others require either a specific kith being present or a royal contract that turns you Goblin (and that's not a good thing). Besides, all 3 options are easy to veto as ST. Lost has problems, evin i agree, but non fae not mattering much in literal faerie tales and death being a suggestion instead of a given isn't that big of a deal (at least for me, but tastes differ)
Shallow Graves, the DtR player's guide is outhttps://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/486079/shallow-graves
>>93218969The first draft of Beast was really negative to Prometheans, but in a different way.Beast urged Prometheans to abandon the pilgrimage and begin to kill humans affected by disquiet.>The take on changelings in various places in the first draft was weirdly negative for a crossover game. You need some positive interactions to make that work.It wasn't just them, beasts were negative to all other supernaturals.>I kind of got the vibe Beasts were supposed to be no-nothing know-it-alls who universally accept all monsters as family as some sort of instinct and just work backwards from that.It is because of their, and the writers, lack of self awareness, Beast ended up as a bizarre deconstruction of itself.You can notice that it isn't intended by all the talk about being genre savvy.>Mages.It is the only splat that doesn't take shit from beasts, they are even immune to the "you lose all your powers if you don't admit beasts are superior" nightmare.
>>93219104Fairy tales usually have easier weaknesses to exploit. Changeling immortality is clearly based off Koschei the Deathless, and he had to hide his death in the world, not in his dreams. If you find and destroy a changelings heart, it sucks, but they can replace it with Hedgespinning and spending Willpower. It also doesn't actually say that them dying from their heart getting destroyed would perma-kill them, leading to the implication they'd get the opportunity to revive again. This is a big reason I think exploiting their Frailties should make them killable since you'd still need to figure out what they are and arrange things so you can take advantage of them. And the process doesn't seem like something only a rare few know, just that it's considered an extreme measure.
I really want to like the Fianna, but their ableism towards the Metis and the otherwise physically "imperfect" doesn’t sit right with me. What about those Fianna who don’t agree with this mentality? Similarly, what about those Silver Fangs who don’t give a damn about bloodlines?
>>93219368You're a player's character. Never saw any player who had prejudice against the Metis or player's that cared for real for Pure Breed (with exception of two players).>ableism towards the MetisThat's the whole gimmick of Metis being rejected by Garou Nation. Fianna just go stronger on that lane (uronicaly, they're the ones who produce Metis the most).
>>93219104The game is fine, I just have a hard time motivating the Lost and company for longer scenarios.
>>93219201>Beast urged Prometheans to abandon the pilgrimage and begin to kill humans affected by disquiet.It's messed up, but unlike some other stuff, it's actually an understandable position rather than weirdly hostile if you think being a monster is good.>It wasn't just them, beasts were negative to all other supernaturals.Yeah, but it was usually more in a smug superior way than being more hostile. Ignoring the smarmy quotes that literally every splat has about the subsplats among their own kind and a select few about other supernaturals that everyone overreacted about, I decided to go back and skim the crossover advice section. Vampires seems unchanged, werewolves are mostly unchanged except they cut out the hilariously arrogant thing of considering Luna and Father Wolf peers, the mage section seems to only change "Homecoming" to "Devouring," Prometheans seem unchanged (surprisingly, both even have a line about how they can potentially come into conflict from the Promethean being too monstrous of all things), the changeling section has undergone a lot of changes, while the hunter, Sin-Eater, and demon sections all seem unchanged as well.>It is because of their, and the writers, lack of self awareness, Beast ended up as a bizarre deconstruction of itself.>You can notice that it isn't intended by all the talk about being genre savvy.A big problem with Beasts writing is they hired a bunch of amateur trans freelancers who decided it would be fun if they did the thing where you make the monster a metaphor for queerness without thinking about the implications or considering they didn't have the writing chops to pull it off.>It is the only splat that doesn't take shit from beasts, they are even immune to the "you lose all your powers if you don't admit beasts are superior" nightmare.And while that's true, their stuff isn't really about that. It's more about how they seem different but once you dig beneath the surface they actually have a lot in common.
>>93219368The Fianna are probably my favorite Apocalypse Tribe, but like all Garou, they are deeply flawed. It's totally fine to play one who doesn't think you should bully them. Can't say much about Silver Fangs though since I never read their Tribe book.>>93219418>picrel
>>93219368I would suggest not playing a Silver Fang who doesn't care at all about bloodlines or breed purity. Believe me: I'm playing with one of those and he could fit in any other Tribe. At least our ST is using this as a social flaw against him. Player just wanted to do a concept that would fuck up his own character: Lupus Silver Fangs who doesn't care for Pure Breed nor wants to do children.>>93219418>or player's that cared for real for Pure BreedGotta say majority of time it's ST's fault on not reminding players that they can't ignore Pure Breed: It's a passive aura that can be felt 24/7. They may laugh at a character for thinking his PB is enough for some stuff, but it's always there. Book even says characters with higher PB are at least better welcomed in some Septs solely because of that.I'm STing a DAW France campaign and one of NPCs is one of the 8 Commander of Tongue from Poor Knights of Acre (he's from the Poitier's Chateau fortress). In other words: He's big shit and very powerful. On the top of that, he's a Children of Gaia Kinfolk with Pure Breed 4 (he however denies that and lies to himself saying he is a normal person). I ST everytime his PB and other NPC's PB first time they meet a different Tribe, plus always reminding some NPCs have PB.
>>93219368Oh man what other cool ideas do you have? Maybe a Tremere with 1 dot in Thaumaturgy who never learns more magic? A Giovanni incel? A Ventrue who cares about social justice?
>>93211149If I’m going the east route then my manager would either be aware of of it or some kind of out there hippy stoner guy that you can just say “brb going to deal with some spooky shit” and he would say something like “right on man”. If I went the more difficult path I would probably say there was an emergency and then offer to do some overtime.
>>93219480>A big problem with Beasts writing is they hired a bunch of amateur trans freelancers who decided it would be fun if they did the thing where you make the monster a metaphor for queerness without thinking about the implications or considering they didn't have the writing chops to pull it oMatt was full on it, "Beasts as a metaphor for the marginalized" was 100% intended. Matt even compared the detractors to MRAs, when the shitstorm happened.And Hill also confirmed it was intentional.
>>93219551>A Giovanni incel.Sincerely, this one is pretty likely.
>>93219684I'm just going by what someone from the Something Awful forums who worked on Beast said.>The writers, the actual people who put down the words on the book, were largely very queer and well-intentioned. They wanted to do "monsters as queers because we get treated like monsters." The "Hero" idea was originally more like... Gaston.
>>93219368>Similarly, what about those Silver Fangs who don’t give a damn about bloodlines?Silver Fangs as an insitution is all about bloodline purity - so much so it requires a minimum to enter. You'd be better off migrating to another tribe, chumpo
My main problem with CtL2e is that all the powers you get off the bat undermine what I liked so much about CtL, that you are someone irrevocably changed by the fae, perpetually stuck in a dark fairy tale. Evasion and trickery are your main strengths, even brutes have to be shrewd and play to type with their brute force. Changelings being naturally strong (in regards to other supernatural creatures) and able to brute force a lot of problems undermines a lot of the things I enjoy about Lost. And no, I don't run Lost as misery porn. You don't need to be absurdly powerful in order to be happy or accomplish things. This is my opinion, and I have no desire to argue with someone about it.
>>93219710It doesn't contradict what I said, they used the monster as a metaphor for queerness, but it ended as "queers are monsters"Ironically enough, the latter was supposed to be deconstructed, but ended up being played straight.
>>93219551>Tremere with one dot in thaumaturgy>not playing a con artist trying to fool everyone into thinking he's really a mage but instead he's just retarded
>>93219724Same. While the fact their dice pools were small could be rough, I liked how changeling powers were a bunch of little tricks that worked well together.
>>93219763Go play Magus somewhere else.
>>93219116Neat.
>>93219239Counterpoint:It's a perverse ritual that makes you closer to a Gentry. Like many things the Lost do, knowingly or not, they are on the path to become Gentry themselves. 1e did it with ascension at wyrd10, 2e does it slightly less obvious but mechanicaly more potent.For Frailties/Bans that's why you encourage players to invest in Wyrd in other waysAlso they still bodily die, their Dream and the Hedge becomes their Underworld/Purgatory.
>>93219551>Maybe a Tremere with 1 dot in Thaumaturgy who never learns more magic?One of my friends doesn't like Thaumaturgy because "it's too OP" and when he did a Tremere, he got Dominate and Auspex 5, but no Thaumaturgy. The ST forced him to buy Thaumaturgy already because "no Regent would allow your PC come so far without Thaumaturgy". He bought Path of Blood 1 and never upgraded it nor used it.>A Ventrue who cares about social justice?There are a couple of those in canon.
>>93211060The wiki has a separate section for their bloodlines.
>>93220413I'll give him credit, he stuck to his guns.
so what I'm getting from reading up on the Ventrue is that it's not really about power for them but respect. like a Ventrue does not become Prince because they want power but rather because they want to stroke their ego
>>93219747There are a bunch of things in it that could be clever subversions, but it's clear they're not really intended as such. Like how they talk about this lesson shit, but killing the victim gives you a +4 modifier on feeding. Or how they talk about being the real monster and being proud of it, but then most of the inheritances are about killing the actual real monster to be free of it. There's even a bit how heroes will help with the latter.
>>93221117Partially. Ventrue are typically power hungry, many are also control freaks. Respect is a mix of being entitled, the practical result of only embracing type A "winners", and a very pragmatic understanding that rulership without respect does not last long. You can be Prince, but without being respected you will be Prince in name alone. Their dignitas based culture exists to minimize infighting, because Ventrue hold a fucking grudge.Tl;dr: It's about both
>>93221278I was talking about the pre rewrite draft.The lessons are a half-assed attempt to fix the mess.>Or how they talk about being the real monster and being proud of it, but then most of the inheritances are about killing the actual real monster to be free of it. Those were made well after the early mess.The original 3 are Merger, Retreat and Incarnate.
>>93213569yo it sounds horrible. how'd it go?
>>93221882>yo it sounds horrible. how'd it go?I was expecting an actual date but it turned into a side quest of discovering who was sabatoging the Toreador primogen's art exhibition. Which I guess will help me score some extra points with her.At least the ananasi boy has made the deal with the Malkavian Primogen to get the werewolves off his back, which I gets me extra points with him?So I guess pretty good, all things considered, but I'm a bit disappoint the sex came this early. I thought I'd need more effort to get there.
>>93222032So... Are both Ananasi boy and girl related or what?
>>93202604Is the Dragon the Embers 2e available anywhere? Mega II only has 1e (I think, there's no edition) and every other link 404s.
>>93222183They're siblings (allegedly. It's not impossible it's just one Ananasi with the sex-changing merit, I've never seen both of them in the same place). But also they're spider-born Ananasi so I don't know how that works.They're mostly chill with the local Camarilla, helped them kick out the Sabbat
>>93219368>>93219507>F*annaUmmm, sweeties? They’re called the Hart Wardens now, m’kay?
>>93222442>>93222442>>93222442>>93222442NEW THREAD!
>>93219535>>93219715How about Jonas Albrecht? He openly criticizes his Tribe’s cultural posturing and eugenics nonsense, and yet ended chosen of the Silver Crown and king of the entire Garou Nation.
>>93216662>The effort and willpower required to become a changelingWillpower is Resolve + Composure. Changelings don't universally get any bonus Resolve or Composure and don't have to meet any minimum Resolve or Composure requirement. You can make a Changeling with the lowest possible Willpower.
