>Only roughly a million in the Imperium>Half of them defected to the enemy>Process to create them is a time-intensive and expensive program that kills 99% of the participants>These million warriors are then split into hundreds of chapters, each of which does their own thing, with very little coordination with the rest of the military >Require expensive military equipment from the Adeptus Mechanicus...which ends up just bringing them to par with their foes>And all this to create...a somewhat decent shock trooper that matches evenly with the heavy shock troopers that their enemies mass produce by the billionsAre Space Marines a total meme? They might be some of the best soldiers in the Imperium but that's not exactly saying much.
>>93223996GW has said multiple times over the years that it's for balance, and that Space Marines "should" be one-man armies.
>>93223996Crash and burn on getting the numbers, meanings, and comparisons correct. You are a total meme.
>>93224017>and that Space Marines "should" be one-man armies.The problem with that is that every other faction has 'one man armies' too, and they have armies of them.
>>93223996>Are Space Marines a total meme? They might be some of the best soldiers in the Imperium but that's not exactly saying much.Im pretty sure thats the point. The GEOM killed the thunder warriors because they were self sufficient and poised a threat to the normal mankind. The higher ups im the imperium are anti-transhumanism. Making giga chad self reproducing super soldiers would threaten their government.
>>93224017I can smell the insufferable faggot who wrote that text through time and space. do 40k fags really pay arm and leg for le epic le witty reddit garbage like that?
God imagine paying someone for art and he just copy pastes the laziest anime scars and face on the character. I'd be pissed
>>93224478IIRC it was written by someone at GW.
>>93224445GEOM killed the Thunder Warriors for two reasons: because they were growing unstable, and because they were too difficult to control. The latter is not because they were self sufficient, but because they were converted as adults: they were, thus, people with opinions, beliefs and ideals themselves. Friction was inevitable.The second is that they were made for strength and damn the consequences: a single Thunderwarrior can bring down multiple fully equipped Marines down while unarmored. They were made to do one thing: fight. And they did it terrifyingly well, but at the cost of long term performance: they were made to conquer Terra, and after that was done they eventually just started to rot and go insane, and then Emps knew he had to get rid of them and replace them with Marines, that while having lower performance were more consistent in the long term.
>>93224017>Space Marine DudeWhoever wrote that blurb should not be allowed to.
I always thought there should be very few CSM left as the Warp would mutate their geneseeds to the point of useless/ineffectiveness.
>this space fantasies numbers don't make sense!
>>93224690Their numbers are bolstered by failed campaigns and stuff like the Abyssal Crusade. On top of that, I don't think the mutations generally make them weaker. It might stop them from say being able to spit acid and gain knowledge from eating brains but having giant claws and being able to vomit Nurgle-powered flies on your enemies probably makes up for it.
>>93223996>inside this absolutely generic looking marine is a...>really badly drawn generic anime girlsomeone actually payed money for this.
>>93224690yes and no. CSM geneseed is typically a lot more mutated because of the warp, but at the same time they regularly raid loyalists and steal their stuff, plus regular defections over the millennia and CSM apothecaries like Bile and such do help keep numbers up.also chaos Gifts probably help balance out corrupted geneseed up to a point
>>93224690>>93224875Yea, it definitely warps their geneseed, but you're sort of missing the point if you think that makes them less effective.
>>93223996You're getting raped tonight for posting this, son.
>>93224059Their numbers are a legitimate point, the numbers are far, far too low. However quibbling about their effectiveness because of the tabletop is more dumb. The tabletop game is intentionally out of scale, a force of 100 Space Marines facing Gaurdsmen for example can expect to be outnumbered 4-1 on the tabletop--when realistically it would be more like 4000-1. Same with Tyranids, Orks, even Tau.As what I believe was a joke, White Dwarf actually had rules for "Movie Marines," or Marines if the lore was actually taken seriously in the rules, so that you'd have a 2000 point match and field two tactical squads, but still be about equal in power to the 20 Chimeras and 200 veterans the guard guy brought.
>>93224690There are a lot fewer of them than there were in the 31st millennium, but there were a LOT of Marines back then. Each Traitor Legion was larger than all of the modern Chapters combined, assuming they suffered 99% losses since then there would still be more Night Lords who were around for the Horus Heresy than there are Ultramarines.
The biggest meme are CSM - they sacrifice their souls to Chaos and fight for 10k years in the warp to be weaker than a normal space marine
>>93223996>all that for a +1 to Toughness and Strength
>>93224690The logistics of chaos makes no sense, it's what makes them a meme villain nobody cares about past the horus heresy spinoffs
>>93223996>>Only roughly a million in the ImperiumMeanwhile in lore Space Marines chapter can disappear from the Imperium's sight only to reappear with a suspicious amount of new equipment few century later and no one will ask questions because the Imperium does not have the resources to control all the chapters. Read lore, shitpostre.
>>93223996I blame Matt Ward for the ”only 1000 spess muhreeens per chapter!!!” and all the other extremely low numbers for everything related to space marines, he killed so much creative potential for space marines as a whole by deciding that all the other chapters were just wannabes of his super special Ultramarines who he decided were only a thousand men strong, in a universe with several trillions of people.
>>93223996>They might be some of the best soldiers in the ImperiumThe Imperium is all about inefficiency and waste of rare materials, so of course, the Space Marines fit into that. Its a waste, and there are plenty of occasions in which the involvement of a space marine chapter was helping the enemy more than the imperium.
>>93226364You are right and wrong at the same time.
>>93226941That is not Wards doing, that bit of info was around much earlier.
>>93226941>I blame Matt Ward for the ”only 1000 spess muhreeens per chapter!!!”Anon you can't blame ward for everything. That fluff is from rogue trader. It's always been 1000 marines per chapter.
Ah, another "Is the Imperium pants-on-head retarded?"
>>9322717810.000 per chapter with 10 independent companies with their own veterans/scouts/whatever would make more sense. And the chapter master is the only one that can rule and use all companies as one cohesive force.
>>93227247You know that Companies dont have 1000 soldiers irl right? That would be a battalion.
>>93227363Company, great company, chapter branch...Who cares, really
>>93224017These are literally move marines, not 'realistic' marines. Realistic ones should be T3 with a 4+ save like they were originally.
>>93226941>I blame Matt Ward for the ”only 1000 spess muhreeens per chapter!!!”lmao at the entirety of your existence you know shit about 40k.Ward is still a fagit tho
>>93227752You know what it sounds like anon... Like you should just homebrew your own chapter that has 10,000 marines in it because fuck the codex astartes. Pretty sure that's what the space wolves and black templars did. Although the Inquisition might ask some questions and there could be allegations of legion building but that's neither here nor there.
>>93224667>>93224478It was a semi-joke article you fucking autistic noob.
>>93224017GW has never stated that marines are one man armies. The rate ar which fluff depicts them getting their shit pushed in should clue you in that marines are a hughe waste of resources.
>>93224059What xenos faction actually has this though? It's definitely not tyranid, orks, or necrons. They have scary troops but hardly one man armies: all of them either need direction or numbers to be scary as a baseline creature. Fire warriors aren't either. So what's left, eldar? Because it seems like a space marine as a base troop is a one man army while other armies field elites and specialists that are on par. There's a bit of a difference.
>>93226941>I blame Matt WardWhy do people who found out about 40k in 2018 repeat /tg/ memes from 2008 entirely out of context? Is it because that youtube show mined 1d4chan for jokes?
>>93230090>Fire warriors aren't either
>>93230172>non-canon>not average Get better material.
>>93224017This is a joke about action movie heroes not about THE ONE TRUE SPACE MARINE STAT LINE. Those enhanced stat lines are also still within the realm of something a squad of storm troopers or even a necromunda ganger could kill.
>>93230090>not tyranidAnything from Hive Tyrants and above.>orksWar bosses.>necronsDon't know shit about them, but since you were wrong about the other two, I'm guessing you were wrong here as well.
>>93230090>Fire warriors aren't either.But Battlesuits are.
>>93230473Battlesuits are specifically meant to counter space marines, and the best they can do is match them. That's with the best Tau tech and an absurd amount of guns nd jets on them. The Tau didn't have battlesuits until they ran into Space Marines and they're explicitly a reaction to that kind of elite trooper. They're also not able to field them in large numbers, hence coming in groups of three to six and not being line troops.
>>93230217>hive tyrantsLiterally needing the tyranid 'generals' of which there's only one on an entire plant to counter a space marine isn't a great ratio, but it's probably pretty accurate. Warriors would be a better example; Clasically, in the wargame they're literally three space marines in a trenchcoat, and recently they're still very equivalent to a few space marines in strength and chonkiness ,just without good gear. >war bossesAgain, a leader, at best one-in-twenty orks can be equivalent to a space marine. That's still a lot of bosses, but they're also shit at shooting and have shit-all armor. Klaws are built for krumpin', tho, gotta give 'em that.
>>93230535>Battlesuits are specifically meant to counter space marines, and the best they can do is match them.Which is pretty bad when the Tau can field dozens for every Space Marine the Imperium has. And that's just the low-end crisis suits, the higher end suits go toe to toe with Terminators.
>>93223996>They might be some of the best soldiers in the Imperium but that's not exactly saying much.That's the point. That's supposed to get across how grimdark the setting is. They have to go through all this shit to make super-soldiers that are still underdogs, just to hold on by the skin of their teeth against much deadlier foes like Tyranids, Necrons, etc.>>93224017Retard that article explicitly spells out that those marines are way overpowered compared to the lore and are not at all accurate to the authentic canon.
>>93226349>or Marines if the lore was actually taken seriously in the rulesKill yourself, see above post, why the fuck do you all spout this retarded meme? The movie marines article outright says it's NOT the fucking lore, it's if they were hollywood movie action heroes. It's a fucking meme made just for fun. It includes the ability to buy "stunt doubles" that absorb a kill.
>>93230090>What xenos faction actually has this though? It's definitely not tyranidRead lore dipshit.
>>93231784Production and deployment numbers autism is fucking stupid in 40k where writers can, have and will pull dozens of manufacturing planets out of their asses and the logistical capabilities to supply new superhuman meat to the grinder at any point in time to match the conceits of game-play. Apples to apples, a Crisis Suit (which is not "low-end" I swear to fucking god) in with all the trimmings in the lore is a probable close 1:1 match to a lore accurate marine (also with all the trimmings). If I wanted to write a 1:1 fight scene between a lone Space Marine Captain and a Shas'vre Crisis Suit Monat with a pair of drones it could plausibly be a solid money match.
>>93231946Addendum: Lets be real, the Space Marine Captain is going to end up winning, because of course he is, any Space Marine with a name becomes pure magic as soon as you start writing about them, but Shas'vre J'Obs A'Lot could make him work for it for a few pages.
>>93231946>Apples to apples, a Crisis Suit (which is not "low-end" I swear to fucking god)It's low end for a battlesuit for the Tau. This is like, the basic bitch Battlesuit you get when you first get promoted as a Fire Warrior (assuming that's the path you take instead of becoming an NCO for other Fire Warriors). Not counting the stealth-suit of course, which is more of a side-grade. Obviously battlesuits aren't cheap. But they're not Astartes-level rare either. To put it into perspective, the lore sample of what a typical Hunter Cadre goes into battle with has about 10% of its forces being battle suits, which is a small contingent but significant which comparing, say, the numbers of Space Marines to Imperial Guardsmen.
>>93226349>a force of 100 Space Marines facing Gaurdsmen for example can expect to be outnumbered 4-1 on the tabletop--when realistically it would be more like 4000-1Fucking retard.Rogal Dorn: >"Give me a hundred Space Marines. Or failing that give me a thousand other troops." So, at the *VERY* best, a 10-1 ratio vis-a-vis guardsmen. (but actual combat doesn't work like that, so the actual utility ratio could be all over the place).Thread synopsis: Space Marines are superlative bio-engineered soldiers given the best equipment available. 1-for-1, they are the best the Imperium has. That's it. They aren't superheroes, they aren't demigods. Compared to an Eldar Aspect Warrior, an Ork Nob, Necron Immortal, etc., they are nothing special, and that's how it's supposed to be. Spess Mehren-boos are humongous faggots.>Nooooooooooooo!!! I- I mean they- are supposed to be teh bestest 10-feet tall most powerful elite...Faggots.
>>93224627>GW.>Misinformed garbage.Makes sense, also >>93224478 point still stands.>do 40k fags really pay arm and leg for le epic le witty reddit garbage like that?
>>93230182Cope harder, Gue'la.
>>93230535>The Tau didn't have battlesuits until they ran into Space MarinesHow did the Tau field battlesuits in the first Damocles Crusade against space marines if the Tau invented battlesuits in response to facing space marines? You're literally just making shit up>>93231946>Apples to apples, a Crisis Suit (which is not "low-end" I swear to fucking god) in with all the trimmings in the lore is a probable close 1:1 match to a lore accurate marineI think the thing that can fly and has plasma guns is stronger than the guy with a bolter
>>93226349>20 Chimeras and 200 veterans the guard guy brought.This is 3k points minimum before you buy any equipment for any of those things. You obviously didn't play in the time period this was published.
>>93229799Or you could just be Dark Angels and never stop being a Legion.
>>93232287>can fly and has plasma gunsYou mean a Jump Captain or a Crisis Suit?They squatted my Crisis Commanders so I can't even make this as accurate as it should be; though we're once again talking specifically about narrative strength, not tabletop balance. even if we were though the Coldstar is only 10 points over the Jump Captain.
>>93232550>though we're once again talking specifically about narrative strengthIn the narrative a fusion blaster blows straight through a leman russ nevermind a space marine and a bolter does not do that to a leman russ.>muh captainsSo you've gone from claiming tactical marines are one man armies that are an easy match for alien specialists to trying to compare to the ten or so guys per chapter that are the most experienced and well armed of all?
>>93223996Space Marines are the lasgun of supersoldiers.>>93232160This; back in the day they were supposed to be commandos+1 not commandos x10.
Everyone's forgetting that they're ten times more popular than any other faction, or even more than most factions combined, and so they will always win. Their super power is marketability and ten space marines will destroy an entire planet of any other faction because they're the protagonists of the setting. You can run the numbers on how many bolter rounds a space marine carries and how many guard he could kill before he runs out of ammo, but you'd be wrong. He carries as many rounds as he needs to win.
>>93232784Do you have brain damage or do you just pretend to for fun? I never made any claims of the sort and the pretend enemy you seem to have invented sounds like a bit of a tosser.I gave the example of 'maximum' space marine compared to 'maximum' crisis suit because if I start talking about typicality, retards like you start having even stupider opinion on what an 'average' space marine or 'average' fire warrior is and I have to do twice the work tard wrangling you back to the point if you can understand it to begin with.Tell me what the narrative plasma pistol does to armor when the narrative captain fires it, then after that you're free to shut up until you have something insightful to say.
>>93223996Don't forget that only 1 in like a 1,000 or some absurd ratio can even going into the pool of recruits to go through the 99% attrition rate process.>>93229799Apparently the Black Templars always being crusading makes them Codex compliant, since there's allowances for crusading Chapters to be over the 1,000 Marine limit.And Big Bobby G's gonna redo the Codex Astartes soon anyway, isn't he?
>>93223996Fem marines in this style are so hot..
Reminder that in the most recent Space Marine Codex, an entire Strike Cruiser got shot down by some squats. The survivors got hunted down like dogs before being rescued by another company.Still not a good sign that your super-elite marines got killed by the dozens in a single encounter by some dwarfs literally looking to fill in their kill quotas. The Imperial Guard, Tyranids, Orks and even the fucking Tau can brush off a few million dead troops.
Since we are talking about numbers, are Space Marines (and CSM) and Custodes the only factions that have their faction sizes explicitly stated? How many Guardsmen, Sisters of Battle or Mechancius troops are in the galaxy? What's the population of the Tau, Eldar and Squats in the galaxy?
>>93234710>What's the population of the TauUnknown, but we know a single developed planet has a population in the trillions. IIRC they probably have a few hundred worlds based on rough guesses, though not every world is gonna have trillions on it. Still, I would presume a population in the tens of trillions. Roughly 40 trillion to take a random jab at it.If we assume that about only a tenth of the empire is actually Tau themselves, and the rest are auxiliaries, then we assume that only 1/5th of the 1/10th of those Tau are actually of the Fire Warrior caste, then we can use the earlier measurement of roughly 10% of a hunter cadre being battlesuits to make the assertion that...There are roughly 80 billion battlesuit pilots in the Tau Empire.
>>93234637>in the most recentSo it didn't happen.>votannIt didn't happen even more.
Since GW has the balls to retcon Female Custodes into existence, they should just get rid of the 1000 Marines per chapter limitation. Fuck, get rid of the 10k Custodes and CSM legion sizes as well. If most factions (including the fucking Tau) are able to field millions, or even billions of soldiers every war or battle, what the fuck are 1 million marines in the galaxy gonna do?Just look at the Battle of Ogham narrative campaign that had involved billions of imperial troops and tyranids. You expect me to believe that a few company or even chapters of marines were gonna make a difference on a war of that scale?
>>93223996Marines are from a time when the imperium was at its peak both in terms of resources and technology and the biggest threat to humanity was basically orks. The only reason space marines were created is because you can mass produce them relatively quickly and while moving the great crusade was basically a zerg rush to quickly unit humanity and wipe any traces of chaos from the galaxy
>>93234786War is mostly about striking at the right time and the right place so yeah they actually can make a difference
>>93229799>Like you should just homebrew your own chapter that has 10,000 marines in it because fuck the codex astartesNah, that won't help because the whole 1000 limit per chapter on the setting triggers my autism on a fundamental level.See >>93224751I rather have more super soldiers than absolute demigods that can beat an army of thousands alone
>>93234786The 1k marines thing isn't actually about lore. It's a goal for collectors IRL. You collect 1000 marine models, you can say you own the whole chapter. That's literally it. A force of a million, or ten thousand, or whatever number you can come up with that makes Marines make sense in universe, it's not attainable. A thousand models (give or take)? A lot of money and work, but certainly doable.
>>93232908>And Big Bobby G's gonna redo the Codex Astartes soon anyway, isn't he?He tried once before and everybody screeched that you can't alter the Codex it's holy and cannot be changed. Even his own gene-sons were seething at the notion.
>>93231907Read posts faglord
>>93224017spbp
>>93223996>anime girl marine>bodybuilder muscle womanawful. whatever opinion or question you have is invalid
>>93235051It's his own fucking book.
>>93229965There exists, in Canon a planet that was passified by a single squad of marines.
>>93244396The canonical->LOOOOOOOOOORE-will state whatever an author wants, regardless of how incompatible it is with other->LOOOOOOOOOORE40K fiction is bottom-of-the-barrel garbage. Beyond that, "a planet" could mean anything. A highly-developed, populous planet with strong and capable central leadership? A planet sparsely populated by caveman-level inhabitants, all of whom are at odds with each other?Again, Space Marines are the superlative soldiers of the IoM, not supermanz.
>>93244748Lol all the best codexes had at least one goofy "and then the brave warrior and his squad held the planet against the ork armada" story. It's part of the appeal, frankly. You might as well argue popeye couldn't possibly pull a rope bridge so hard he brings the two cliff faces together.
>>93244748
>>93243896Doesn't matter, holy. Can't be changed. Guilliman is as frustrated with the state of affairs as anybody.
>>93223996First of all I must address the OP image.>hnnnnnnnnggggg I need a muscular amazonian warrior mommy dommy wheyfu wife so much it is unreal bros. Anyways Space marines are a total meme in that they were supposed to be stupidly overpowered that their seemingly microscopic numbers on a galactic scale could actually make a difference which would be a massive difference. This is also coupled by them having overpowered wargear and other enhancements to make them really punch above their weight.
>>93230182>Shas'o Kais>non-canon
>>93243896Welcome to the 41st millennium.
>>93223996>PicWhat in the name of Safe Horny is this?
>>93249320Do you ever feel bad knowing that your personality gets rewritten by your phone every few weeks? Do you get tired of mindlessly repeating the word of the week from twitter?
>>93249392>Do you ever feel bad knowing that your personality gets rewritten by your phone every few weeks? Thanks. Im not the guy you're replying to, but I've always wanted some way to respond to retards that parrot the "funny pharase template of the month" in a way that expresses why I disdain it.And you did it. You conveyed perfectly how I always wanted to answer people who spout these shitty premade phrases.
>>93249392>no one believes anything they just read phone and disagree with me
>>93223996Do you think that space marines that follow Slaanesh gete the use of their genitals back?
>>93249605tbf I still can't find a single definitive source that actually says outright that they don't get boners and why/what method causes this. Everyone says they don't but it seems to just be a reasonable assumption since there's gotta be some reason they don't ever have kids. I think that GW is just comfortable with never answering the question.Personally always felt that slaanesh worshippers wouldn't be so vanilla as to really use their genitals for sex though. Maybe beating them with phonebooks or something.
>>9324439695% of the time Space Marines do meme shit like that it's because they're going up against PDF-tier forces which are weaker than the fucking Imperial Guard.
>>93249605An early HH book has some Emperor's Children at a Slaaneshified concert that descends into an orgy, and the marines butcher people instead of fucking.Slaanesh as the sex god is possibly the laziest and most boring flanderisation of Warhammer, and you can't even blame GW for it.
>>93230090From a recent game: Orks.Orks are cheaper anon, and have better toughness, better melee, better movement, better saves, better stratagems and feel no pain but don't worry it's fine because they have slightly shorter ranged shooting in this game where L-Shaped Ruins block anything longer than 2" range.Regular tac marines or even intercessors struggle to deal with most things and the primaris units lacking ablative bodies means you're significantly more fragile than you look on paper.
>>93250339>I think that GW is just comfortable with never answering the question.This.>Personally always felt that slaanesh worshippers wouldn't be so vanilla as to really use their genitals for sex though.>>93250370>Slaanesh as the sex god is possibly the laziest and most boring flanderisation of Warhammer, and you can't even blame GW for it.BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CUDDLING?!
>>93244748It's all lore, its all made up.None of this shit exists, whatever the writers say is what it is. It's just cool sci-fi and if they wanna make em supermen then so be it.Find some joy in life.
