Inaugural Edition Welcome to /bwg/! This is a general dedicated to all board wargames: hex and counter, CDGs, block wargames, and even more eclectic designs are all welcome here. Talk about anything here, from games you're interested in, organizing games over Vassal or Tabletop Simulator with other anons, or just general discussion. >Thread Question How did you first learn about board wargaming? What drew you to it?
>>93240678Hi from /bgg/The past two threads on this have been really fun to read through, I hope you guys do well.
>>93240688Yeah I like both! It's all fun to meI'm a board gamer and miniaturr wargamer, then a roleplayer
>>93240688Thank you. I think it’s an underrepresented sector of /tg/ that’s never had a real home. Maybe that’s for a reason but it doesn’t hurt to try. >>93240738I think most people are. Tribalism is largely shitposting.
>>93240678>How did you first learn about board wargaming?I got into board games as a whole just a few years ago. I actually got into them backwards because my first game was Twilight Struggle. I guess you could say I started off as a wargamer and then evolved into a more general boardgamer, though over the last year or so I've swung back heavily towards wargames as my primary interest. >What drew you to it?I needed something that wasn't a screen, and a lot of my friends were into Warhammer 40k and MtG, but I could never get into them. Now I've become boardgame man.
Thanks for setting this up OP>How did you first learn about wargaming? What drew you to it?As a kid I always loved the scenes in the war movies where the generals are standing around a big table pushing their units around on the map. I wanted to do that. I had an uncle who had a bunch of old games from the 80s and when he introduced me to Axis & Allies it was game over. Played that a fair amount throughout my teenage years and then discovered Advanced Squad Leader when I was around 18. Being 18 I had no money but would read about ASL every now and then and always thought it looked cool. When I was 24 or 25 I bought the ASL starter kits and played through them solo. Moved on to full ASL and played semi regularly on VASSAL for a few years and within the last year or so I've begun branching out and buying/playing other hex & counter games, mostly from GMT. I love the historicity of hex & counter games that allows you to retrace the footsteps of actual battlefield commanders. I look at wargames as a learning tool just as much as a game. I enjoy reading books about a certain battle as I play along with whatever game I have setup at the time. Hoping to find a regular opponent to play live games with on VASSAL. As I mentioned I play ASL and some GMT games but I'm up for whatever
Any wargames that are good with more than two players?
>>93241259Triumph & TragedyChurchillCOIN SeriesAngola! Burning Banners
>>93241205>I look at wargames as a learning tool just as much as a gameAgreed. I just wish there were more games about hypothetical conflicts than historical ones.
Congratulations on the general. I have to ask, any beginner friendly, sci-fi hex and counter games that teenage boys might like? I've got my nerdy cousins stopping over and they love board games.
>>93242080Hmmmm…well unfortunately the amount of sci-fi hex and counter is pretty limited. The natural answer would be Space Empires 4X but I don’t know how well versed your cousins are in tabletop games
>>93242195They play Catan and OPR, so they have some knowledge. I was thinking Space Empires 4X was a PC game.
>>93242212>They play Catan and OPR, so they have some knowledgeSE4X is definitely a significant step up, but still well within the realm of manageable.https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/gmtwebsiteassets/spaceemp/Space_Empires_Rules_1.2.pdfHere are the rules. Basic game is very teachable, while the advanced game plus expansions can make it the most autistic space war simulation imaginable >I was thinking Space Empires 4X was a PC game.Inspired by them and old tabletop 4Xs for sure.
>>93242276Thanks Anon, you're a huge help!
>>93242376No problem. Do know that the game is out of stock currently, but you can either preorder a new copy from GMT (the slow way) or (probably cheaper) get a used copy from someone selling it on BGG.
>>93242401I'll have to check used, much obliged.
My own collection is rather eclectic after filtering the non-wargames. Its a combination of my own personal interest as well as things that actually get played with other people. I've also played a lot of games on Rally the Troops, especially Rommel in the Desert and Hammer of the Scots. Burning Banners is the most recent game in my collection, though it hasn't actually arrived yet.
>>93242458>Dune>All those COIN games>Twilight Strugglefukken based anon - would game with 10/10 (although we'd need 4 other players for the full Dune experience)
>>93242980>>All those COIN gamesI mean there's only two of them...
>>93242980What counters are these from
>>93243224Honestly didn't know until I just reverse image searched right now:https://www.atomagazine.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=81Was searching for nice counter examples a while back and saved them.
>>93243666These ziplock games seem vaguely familiar. They look decently high quality if nothing else
Where do you guys play these games online?I know rallythetroops has a bunch of games and Twilight Struggle has an official video game adaptation, but what about stuff like Paths of Glory? Do I just have to join one of those ancient boomer mailing lists that use ACTS?
Is dune a war game?Are star wars rebellion, war of the ring, war of arrakis war games?Is crescent moon a war game?What about firefly adventures, is it skirmish war game?
>>93241259>>93241288I'd stick Friedrich and Maria in there too. I just got a chance to play Friedrich on RTT and really liked it. Never played Maria but heard it's similar and doesn't require a big group like Friedrich.https://www.rally-the-troops.com/join/78713
>>93243754I play primarily on RTT or Vassal. BGA has good implementations of the two Pax games. I'll play some historical/war stuff on Tabletopia if I can get a group (Pax Illuminaten, Coalitions).Vassal is a great way to play hex & counter stuff - pretty much everything is on there. I've never played using ACTS and I think that's really for tournament or ladder play anymore.
>>93241567Designers are getting around to it - Red Strike won 4 Charles S. Roberts awards this year and it's about a hypothetical NATO vs. Warsaw Pact war. Red Dust Rebellion is COIN in future space.
What's the best game for essentially emulating the Total War games' combat? Some sort of sandbox army building with very granular, tactical gameplay with formations, maneuvers, etc? I have zero interest in miniatures which is what everyone recommends for this style. Napoleonic or earlier preferably. Also I'm a friendless loser so solo would be a plus but I don't expect it. With It or On It seems to be the best bet but I'm not impressed by the gameplay I've seen.
>>93241259I am also interested.
>>93243997I would say those all ride the line between “classic” wargame and Ameritrash. Dune in particular was a very important evolutionary step from wargames to Ameritrash but you’d find people that’d argue both cases.
>>93243754Vassal is great if you know how to use it. Obviously if you have the time TTS is good for live play.
>>93244504That’s not quite what I meant. Red Strike is a great game but it’s about a war that can never happen, at least in the modern day. And RDR is just Andean Abyss IN SPACE. What I meant by hypothetical war was a plausible modern conflict. This used to be a huge part of the genre during the 70s and 80s (when a war in Europe between NATO and the PACT seemed possible) but after the Cold War ended using wargames as predictive exercises largely died with it. Now there’s only Next War and more recently Littoral Commander.It’s funny, I remember reading once that Mark Herman was brought onto multiple national news channels during Desert Storm because Gulf Strike had a eerily accurate scenario of Iraq invading Kuwait and a multinational coalition responding. Canadian Broadcasting even accused the man of profiteering on Canadian war dead. Gulf Strike came out in 1983.
>>93245789I haven’t played it but I think ONUS! Traianus might be what you’re looking for.
>>93246483Huh, I see that I have this bookmarked from years ago but forgot about it. I remember the rules being in broken English or something. But I'll check it out again, thanks.
Washington launched a daring winter attack on Howe’s army in Boston and drove him out, forcing him to retreat by sea to Norfolk. However, Arnold suffered a decisive defeat attempting to prevent Cornwallis from marching on Philadelphia.
>>93240678I guess my introduction was while attending Strathclyde university, there was this game shop called George and the Dragon which stocked all these games I'd never seen before. I bought a back issue of Strategy & Tactics on one of the Russo-Turkish war and was so enchanted that I immediately did an AAR on /hwg/. I fell in love with how freeing hex & chit was, you could have a whole catalogue of conflicts without ever touching a miniature.
>>93242080OGRE by Steve Jackson Games is a classic that is excellent for new-comers.
>>93247733I respect miniature gaming but the hobby aspect always turned me off, to say nothing of just how much variety board wargaming has.
Are there reading lists/source citations for COIN games? I'm curious to learn more about some of these conflicts. Especially Andean Abyss, People Power & The British Way.
>>93248184>Andean AbyssBack of the playbook in the "Selected Sources" section https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/gmtwebsiteassets/andeanabyss/AAPLAYBOOK-3.pdf>People PowerAlso in the back of the playbook. Unfortunately GMT is sleeping on the job and the playbook is only available in Spanish on their website >The British Way In the back of the campaign book. It's included in a zip file with the specific game books. https://www.gmtgames.com/p-1095-the-british-way-counterinsurgency-at-the-end-of-empire-2nd-printing.aspx
>>93248221Not sure how I missed this, based, thank you friend
>>93240678>how did you first learn about board wargaming?I stumbled across Starship Troopers at Goodwill in high school. I used to really like playing Risk with friends and had no idea there was an entire world of these “massively complicated” games beyond Risk. I was instantly fascinated, reading the rules, studying the combat resolution tables and hidden movement systems, and then it drew me to SPI, especially their scifi games, which finally hooked me for good.
>>93248641Kinda the same for me. I knew about stuff like Risk and Axis & Allies and was vaguely aware of games like Catan and Carcassonne but I didn’t realize just how deep the rabbit hole went.
>>93247934Oh man, I forgot OGRE existed. Always wanted a copy. Wonder how much a boxed set would cost me? Hopefully not a painful amount.
>>93248952I don’t think a used copy would be too bad from BGG
>>93248952https://www.nobleknight.com/PG/5206$25 for a 3rd edition set.
>>93247340Arnold was able to scrape up a small force to delay Cornwallis from marching on Philadelphia, but he was captured in the process. It did, however force Cornwallis to secure his supply line in Delaware for the winter. General Washington intends to force a great battle in Wilmington, to drive the British back and save the Continental Congress
>>93249460Yeah Washington kicked Cornwallis’s ass so hard the French joined the war. Even Arnold’s failed offensive into Quebec cant put much of a damper on American spirits right now. The British may be forced to pivot towards a southern strategy.
>>93242458How's Burning Banners?I almost backed it on Kikestarter, but 1. Compass Games shipping rates are 300% stupid and 2. I didnt see enough variation between the factions.Naybe I didnt see the advanced rules, but I waa hoping for a necromancer faction that could bring back the dead on a regular basis.
>>93249551And that’ll do it. Washington marched wherever he wanted and gave every British general the business. He defeated Howe in Norfolk. He defeated Clinton in Savanah (saving Lafayette) , and he isolated Cornwallis (who had to bug out of Massachusetts with Greene breathing down his neck) in Charleston. Still, British political control damn near won them the game. They had Virginia and North Carolina locked up and were pushing into New York and Maryland. They just couldn’t hit the gas from all the loses they were taking in combat and because Rochambeau was blocking them. Fun game. Perhaps a tad archaic by CDG standards but I think it’s so quick playing it doesn’t matter. >>93249739>How's Burning Banners?>Burning Banners is the most recent game in my collection, though it hasn't actually arrived yet.I will let you know eventually.
>>93249786Forgot my image
>>93249786For some reason my eyes refused to notice the last segment of your post before I replied.Forgive me sire.
>>93249860From reading the rules it does seem like a lot of the asymmetry is locked behind the advanced rules. There are a few cow faction mechanics (Fjordling free naval movement, Oathborn mining, etc…) in the core but the factions heroes and blessings really seem like the meat of the asymmetry. It’ll never be something like Root or Dune but it seems more than sufficient.
>>93240678Good general.Wargames have a lot to offer to gaming.I got started in wargaming by getting World at war blood and bridges and MBT. Both are great, fun games that would go over well even with people who don't need tweezers due to parkinsons.
So we're two generals now because one anon had a bitchfit over a genre? Uh, okay.If I want to check out war games resembling actual historical conflicts for player counts bigger than two players, and with a manageable complexity level, what's a good place to start? Cuba Libre looked pretty interesting to me, I like the idea of a really small map making conflict a CONSTANT threat. The choices the COIN system offer feels pretty distinct from typical "dudes on a map" stuff.
>>93249915>Wargames have a lot to offer to gaming.That was the genesis of this thread. Its such an important part of tabletop gaming's past and present that's been woefully underrepresented. Board wargaming isn't for most people, but I think there are a lot of people that would be interested that just don't know about it.
>>93250142>So we're two generals now because one anon had a bitchfit over a genre? Uh, okay.This has nothing to do with the shitflinging in /bgg/. This idea came from the two hex and counter threads over the last couple of weeks. It seemed like there was enough interest to justify turning board wargaming into its own general. >If I want to check out war games resembling actual historical conflicts for player counts bigger than two players, and with a manageable complexity level, what's a good place to start?Cuba Libre is a very good place to start, even if at times it can feel more like a euro than anything else. Personally, I'd also recommend taking a look at Angola. It was a huge inspiration for COIN. As for other games, there's also Friedrich (playable on Rally the Troops) and Triumph & Tragedy (though that only supports three players).
>>93248865>>93248641I still have my Wooden box copy of Risk that I bought from Target 15~ ish years ago for $25, price seemed outrageous at the time but I really liked Risk. All of the troops are little wooden cubes, and football shaped pieces represent clusters of ten. I should play that game again for old time's sake, even if the design is beyond outdated now.
I like wargames.
>>93250172>This idea came from the two hex and counter threads over the last couple of weeks. It seemed like there was enough interest to justify turning board wargaming into its own general.Well cool then. I probably won't be here quite as often as /bgg/, but I am pretty open to genre variety. Probably not QUITE what the general entails but I've played both War for Arrakis and War of the Ring and had fun. I'd absolutely discuss those games should the situation permit it. A friend of mine also has Memoir 44, Undaunted Normandy and some block wargame I think is called "This war of mine", but I haven't played any of those three yet.
>>93250174If nothing else Risk with wooden cubes sounds like better ergonomics than the crappy minis.
>>93250189Damn, now THAT'S a shelf.If you had to cull your collection to keep only 3 of those titles, which three would it be?>>93250195it is VERY convenient, usually I don't have a problem with minis and even outright bought the mini pack for Dune Imperium, when wooden cubes are the default option but the sheer quantity of units in Risk means little wooden blocks are much more manageable. The map that came with my copy isn't very big either, so trying to fit little plastic dudes on that would be a nightmare
>>93250225Only three is difficult, but I’d go with:>Commands and Colors Napoleonics>Bios Megafauna 1e>Freedom in the Galaxy
>>93250238Wow, fast answer. What made those three such quick picks for you?
>>93250194>War for Arrakis and War of the RingDifferent people have different definitions of what counts as sufficiently "wargamey" but I don't particularly care. The only reason I'd recommend talking about those in /bgg/ instead is there's simply more people there to talk about those games with. For the record, I adore WotR. >Memoir 44, Undaunted NormandyBoth solid. Memoir I think is outdone by other Commands & Colors games but its certainly the most accessible one. >block wargame>This war of mineDo you happen to mean This War Without an Enemy? Because that game is quite good even if the rules are a bit mediocre.
>>93250225>spoilerDon't feel bad I like minis well enough too. I've seen people play stuff like War of the Ring and Inis where they replace the minis with cubes and I get it but also I want my little plastic army men sometimes.
>>93250244>C&C NapoleonicsCaptures the general experience of tactical wargaming while being lightweight enough to play with people who don’t play wargames, tons of scenarios to start with and a customisable board making it limitlessly replayable.>Bios MegafaunaHigh amount of PvPvE randomness that makes the game very swingy but in a way that keeps it exciting, very thematic as well and the more you play, the more survival strategies come out.>Freedom in the GalaxyEpically grand scale SF wargame, basically a Galaxy-sized simulation of Star Wars. Asymmetrical sides make it interesting to switch sides, three levels of complexity in scale make it easy to scale up or down to a “short” or “long” game— and the long game really is epic when the rebels finally stage their rebellion with strategic star systems causing a domino effect of rebellion before they open hot combat against the empire.Basically, I guess all three have unique themes that heavily influence the game, and a lot of room for replayability and emergent narratives.
>>93250259>emergent narrativesSomething I think wargames excel at in general.
>>93250281Absolutely true, but FitG is so grand in scale but still character-focused, that the strategical narrative really does play out on the shifting political fabric. It’s a slow burn but feels quite unique.
>>93250398I wonder why there isn't more attempts at combining character focused games on a huge scale. I'd only vaguely heard of Freedom in the Galaxy but I'm thinking of War of the Ring right now, both the modern version and the SPI original. Outside of those two the only wargames that have that kind of personal element is stuff like Ambush.
>>93250467I’ve wondered that too. Ambush has looked enticing for a long time to me but I haven’t tried it. And I do really like War of the Ring as a concept too, it feels like it takes a lot of inspiration from FitG (maybe not the original SPI, but moreso the newer one). Most games are much more abstract in their representations of the sides. Even Avalon Hill’s Titan, which does have each player controlling a real character, feels abstracted to the point where it could be replaced with any other arbitrary unifier.
>>93250794>decide to look up Freedom in the Galaxy on BGG to see who designed it >it was designed by Howard Barasch and John Butterfield >the same Howard Barasch who co designed War of the Ring with Berg>the same John Butterfield who designed Ambush himselfHuh. Maybe the issue is just that it’s really fucking hard and only those two men knew how to do it correctly.
>>93250848Whoa, Butterfield also created SpaceCorp which is another favourite of mine, albeit not really a wargame, for the abstracted narrative it builds too. I think you’re onto something, anon.
>>93250855I’ve known of Butterfield’s genius given he also made D-Day at Omaha Beach and Enemy Action Ardennes but I didn’t know his work went back that far.I think he’s making a new sci-fi solitaire game too, though I don’t know much about it
>>93250900I’ve never actually played much historical wargames even though that’s literally the main point of the genre, but this makes me want to check his stuff out. Are you sure his solo SF game isn’t SpaceCorp? That has a solo mode.
>>93248184There's a full-on COIN discord ran by one of the guys from Homo Ludens that has a whole section on books.>>93249791Well done - just like what Americans thought really happened and not ineptitude by Howe and John Burgoyne.
>>93250189You can't post that will out telling us about the Spiderman wargame.
>>93250900>>93250855Butterfield also did Downfall with Chad Jensen here recently.
>>93251737It’s a cool but simplistic game. Supervillains are robbing banks, and spider-man is travelling in disguise as Peter Parker. As soon as he reveals himself as Spider-Man, the villains can attack, and also play cards to make police (NPCs) attack Spider-Man too as a vigilante. The goal is for the villains to get away with the money or for Spider-Man to catch them. Thematically on-point, not too deep or replayable, but it’s a fun play-through.
>>93250189 I’ve actually got a newer photo. That one was a year old.
absolutely based OP image
COIN games are okay. They are a very innovative design, and when you're new to wargaming they're a great way to show that the hobby isn't all just autistic levels of CRT and DRM crunch and exceptions-within-exceptions rules. They're also some of the best ways (some of the only ways too) to play with much more obscure historical periods, like the Cuban revolution or the wars of Algerian independence. But COIN, and Volko's games in general, have a problem where there are so many derivative/additional/spin-off games that get published that the system eventually gets so extremely watered-down and/or pulled away from its core design. There's like, what, 15 volumes in the COIN series now? I see no reason to play any of them past Cuba Libre, A Distant Plain, and Fire in the Lake. The series arguably peaked with FiTL.
>>93240678This pic gives me anxiety thinking about sorting through.
>>93241259Space Empires
Thoughts on Larry Harris games? Not A&A but War Room and the new Napoleonic one he's got on Kickstarter?
>>93240678I've been inhaling the book "The Last Stand: Custer, Sitting Bull, and the Battle of the Little Bighorn" the last few days which I guess means I'll have no choice but to buy Custer's Last Stand from Worthington and play through it at some point in the near futureAlso, does anyone else listen to Bolt Thrower while playing their h&c games? I used to get really high on kratom and throw on Bolt Thrower while strategizing for my VASL games and I honestly have to say it was the most fun I've ever had in my lifehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji_jP-OcUAo&ab_channel=cynicaster
>>93251303>Are you sure his solo SF game isn’t SpaceCorp?No it’s definitely a new game. https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/374993/away-team-the-voyages-of-the-pandoraOr at least I thought it was. Seems like it may be a remake of another one of his old games from the 70s. >I’ve never actually played much historical wargames even though that’s literally the main point of the genreMost of his historical games are solo games. D-Day at Omaha Beach is great. So is Enenmy Action but that rulebook is THICK. I’ve also heard great things about RAF The Battle of Britain but I haven’t played it.
>>93251723>Well done - just like what Americans thought really happened and not ineptitude by Howe and John Burgoyne.Yeah I think Washington’s combat ratting is way overblown. Couple that with some insane dice rolls that let him use his full battle ratting in every battle he was in, him being the only American general to not suffer automatic winter attrition, and his insane winter offensive rule that gives him another bonus when it was the last card play of a turn, and he basically can turn every fight into a straight roll off with any British general. I like the game a lot but I think it’d be a little more accurate if the other American generals (especially Greene) were a little better and Washington slightly worse.>>93252069Agreed, though I am interested in China’s War as well.
>>93253875War Room looks like quite the spectacle but I hate the fact that it starts in 1942. Seems overly limiting and too focused on combat for the scale, just like Axis & Allies is
>>93253875I used to own War Room 2nd edition and I cancelled my pledge for Imperial Borders.Production quality is top notch and the rules are very clean with a good rulebook.I just found the combat to be too long and random in War Room, and I see that Imperial Borders doesnt bring any new interestning mechanics to the formula.In fact it made the combat system even dumber.I was extremely dissappointed that Imperial Borders didnt include any cool diplomacy, outmanouvering, army fatique or weather systems that is important for that era.
>>93254775>Imperial Borders didnt include any cool diplomacy, outmanouvering, army fatique or weather systemsLarry Harris wants to make games where armies clash. Everything else is irrelevant to him.
>>93254815It just feels like an extremely overproduced and simple magazine game really.
>>93254828These games aren't for grognards, they're for people who have fond memories of Axis & Allies and Risk as a kid and want a "modern" version of it.
Lads anyone p500'd HIS anniversary edition?I'm asking because my other p500s got shipped within a month (to europe) and it's been almost 3 now since distribution started and I've only gotten a pack with the missing components as of now.
>>93254965I'd email GMT, that probably should have arrived already.
>>93254946>€250 + VAT for Risk or A&AKek me to the moon and let me Hawk Toah among the tards
>>93255028If someone were interested in a massive, epic production I'd sooner recommend Europa Universalis.
>>93255044Already have Europa Universalis.Love it.
>>93255058I may or may not have backed the reprint.
