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>>93246565
Well new stat slop is out. The bad news is that the stats (even though, fairly collected) are absolute bullshit this time around. You have two weeks? of nerfs being applied, you have relatively few events throwing off their long stats, you have like four new teams throwing everything off. There's not a lot that you can conclusively say, maybe if they released a six month set of stats it would be less trash but honestly the good advice is to wait for the next set.

>Fair Observations
Scouts probably did need to the boost, not sure if they needed knives to be 4/6 (as apposed to 4/5).
>Lots of teams are losing play percentages to the new teams which all seem to be doing well. It's a fairly big meta shift to have so many new and busted teams. Mandrakes and Yaegir seem to be leading the new and busted charge but Nemesis and brood are both posting strong numbers.
Intercession had a really strong month? And posted a 52% win rate (despite before strugglign in the low 40's) which should show you how 'science' these win rates are.
>most of the buffs were fairly well targetted, will be interesting to see if Legionaries 'smallest of buffs' translates to much.
I feel like there's just a lot of new tech on the board with all these new teams and the old teams need to learn if they can play into them well or not. Feel like Elites are going to becoming back in style a little
>World eaters never ever
Feels bad man.

>TQ
I wouldn't mind seeing more solitaire options. Even if not quite as serious as tourney play, having puzzles or a bit faster way for people to learn what mandrakes do would be nice.

>my vet guard above 50% for once

That's a horrible image, I don't even play 40k I just thought you all should know.

>>93246565
>Votann got two teams before World Eaters got one Edition
Same for GSC and Tyranids, or Aeldari and Death Guard.
>TQ
I think people want stuff too big for bosses generally. I think light walkers is about where a kill team should be at, taking out a sentinel would be great. Look at AT-STs in the original trilogy, they were tin cans. But then how it was portrayed in The Mandalorian, that's the way to do it. It keeps things proportionate to the scale for the game whilst offering a big challenge. I do think it would be boring as hell to play a single big thing though, It'd need something like unlimited overwatch or 10APL and the ability to activate multiple times like the Patriarch.

I'd quite like to see a rogue trader vs chaos warband expansion. The rogue trader can fill out a roster with any imperial operatives, and some xenos (kroot, votaan, aeldari). The chaos warband can take anything from a chaos faction. MEQs are two choices. It would need loads of balancing but would be doable, like the Inquisitorial Agent kill team.
>a legionary Chosen
>three bloodletters
>five devotees
>a beastman
>two blooded gunners
I'd play the fuck out of that.

>>93247322
GSC and the elves have one, death guard and nids have a white dwarf one as well if I'm remembering right. And even then there is a nurglish kill team.

>>93246353
Oh ok, I'm reading the nemesis rules rn after giving a look at the core ones
Guess I can pull up some warp bullshit like super reflexes, blood spraying everywhere hiding them or something

>>93247376
GSC have Brood Brothers and Wyrmblade, Aeldari have corsairs and Blades of Khaine. Death Guard and nids have only what is in the compendium, Gellerpox are nurgle daemons and Legionaries can take all nurgle marks, but they are not Death Guard.

>chaos complains about not having another marines team
No. First DG gets one if we speak about marine teams. Much, much later if ever should WE whos only shtick is being angry get their own team.

>>93247404
Ever player Inquisitor: Martyr? Or it might be the expansion. At one point you stumble on a chaos warband and they start a blood ritual. The whole base gets red haze, think like deep mist but blood. There is your warp bullshit.

>>93246813
>World eaters never ever
>Feels bad man.
Literally red legionaries.

>>93247438
Never played but yeah it's perfect.
Still gonna try to think more ways to reflavor the obscuring tho, sincerely I'm having fun with the creativity of it

>>93246565

>another thread of complaining that the red melee space marines with chain weapons and plasma pistols can't be represented by the three existing melee teams of space marines with chain weapons and plasma pistols
>>93246813
Why did he put out two weeks of data? Kill Team tournament data is already small enough that a handful of players doing very well or very poorly can completely swing the stats of a given team in a month, doing this with just two weeks is a joke.

>>93247404
>how does nemesis claw play
Arbitrarily immune to shooting turn 1, psychotic violence on turn 2

They don't even feel super sneaky since they don't have silent weapons or order flipping or charge from conceal or anything, they're just extremely fast and can move up safely to start slamming into stuff with mortal wounds on charge, richochet into more targets with the second charge ploy, fight twice, etc.

The grisly trophy, flayed skin, and screecher weapon penalty all make them very opressive at close range. If anything the teams weakness is that they're way too good at melee and it doesn't really matter so much when they're crashing through a bunch of pathfinders that the bonuses are wasted on.

>>93247472
No they definitely deserve their own team (like Warp Cover, Death Guard, Nemesis). Give me Two handed Chainaxes worth a damn.

>>93247534
To be fair the amount of marine factions who refuse to be represented by intercessors is fairly amusing. I actually have some red intercessors it just would be nice to be painted red AND competitive.

>Two weeks
He shouldn't have done it. I presume it's a slow content week or something. Honestly aside from the handful of underperforming team (Kasrkin, Scouts, Justicars) and at least one of them's fixed, the game is surprisingly well balanced. The new teams probably being the exception, the four new teams + Felgore, Gellerpox, Pathfingers, Hierotech are probably what I would consider the 'Strong, Strong, Teams' at the moment. I don't see any team playing into those teams without regreting it still even after the nudging and nerfs.

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You can't just use legionnaries as a catch all team for specific csm chapters the same way you can for loyal space marine kill teams. All loyalists have intercessors and it can be reasonably figured out why they'd need a stealth team even if they're not racvenclaws, but each of the four big chaos factions all have specific niches, niches that Undivided goons can't fill. It could be taken as chaoswank but at least 4 more chaos teams isn't nearly as bad as 9 really niche loyalist teams
Guard deserve niche teams for major regiments though.

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>>93247534
>another thread of complaining that the red melee space marines with chain weapons and plasma pistols can't be represented by the three existing melee teams of space marines with chain weapons and plasma pistols
Blame GW for releasing pic rel. The mere existence of Nemesis Claw as their own team sets a precedent that even something as minor as a different combat doctrine from the default flavor of chaos marines is enough to justify having your own dedicated kill team.

>>93247613
people endlessly bitching about their specific niche flavor of guys getting their own team is exactly what GW deserves for releasing a gorillion slightly different special snowflake teams instead of just adding basic levels of customization to more broad factions to be quite honest. It was a retarded idea from the start and I only pray they learn for the next edition and wipe the slate clean when it comes.

>>93247613
Khorne berserkers specifically are a good fit for legionary (where noise marines and plague marines are not), but they could easily get some other setup than just the 6 regular marines setup (like those 8-bound guys or being supported by cultists).
That's how I'd add any other chapter-specific teams as well - a dark angel team could include a deathwing knight leader and an entirely new weapon setup in addition to the obvious alterations to themed gameplay, for example - but I personally think rather than chapter/legion-specific teams what we'd really want more of is diversified generic choices.
A space marine team led by a terminator is a perfect fit for both DA and SW because that's how those chapters fight, while also still being fully useable by other chapters; in the same way, phobos are already accessable by all chapters but fit especially well for raven guard or raptors. In that way, I think that the night lords team is the wrong approach by so aggressively tying it to a specific legion instead of making it just a general "CSM that have EXTRA horrible fear and murder methods".

>>93247613
>Undivided goons
You literally get to take specific chaos marks and undivided is the worst one that nobody takes. Nobody plays legionary as undivided.

>>93247322
>a rogue trader vs chaos warband expansion
the rogue trader would just do what inquisition already does but a chaos version of an inquisition kill team would be nice. you could take 3 chaos space marines and 8 cultists in the compendium traitor marine team.

>>93247534
>>93247681
as already demonstrated by the other special CSM teams, a world eaters team would have specific ploys and flavor. world eaters are not just chaos marines with the mark of khorne, they are world eaters.

>>93247960
Blood Angels are not just intercessors with Aggressive and Rapid chapter tactics, they are Blood Angels. You could say this about almost any faction.

>>93247985
>You could say this about almost any faction.
Only if you're an idiot. Which... well, you are.

>>93247985
Here, wait. Before you type more stupid idiot talk to me. I will help you out.

Here's my comment again: >>93247960

Read it. Then reread it.
Good. Now, let's start at the beginning.
>as already demonstrated by the other special CSM teams, a world eaters team would have specific ploys and flavor.
What do you think this sentence means?

Wait. Don't type it out. Think about it.

>>93247960
>>93248001
Do you want me to edit you a copy of the legionary rules that renames Perpetual Aggression to Perpetual World Eater Aggression? Is the Blood For The Blood God ploy name okay or should I fit World Eaters in there somewhere too?

>>93248075
>Do you want me to edit you a copy blah blah
No. You need to something else for me. Here you go:
>Step 1. Read the wahapedia article on the Legionary Kill Team.
Look at the marks of chaos, the strategic ploys, and the operatives.
>Step 2. Read the wahapedia article for the Compendium Death Guard Kill Team
Look at the strategic ploys, the tactical ploys, and the operatives. Strangely, they do not have marks of chaos anymore. Really think about that. Take your time.
>Step 3: Read the wahapedia article for the Warpcoven Kill Team.
Really, really think about everything now. Read through the strategic ploys, tactical ploys, and operatives just like you did the last time. Give yourself breaks if you need to.

Now that you've done that for me, I have one final task. Count in your head how many specialized mono-god chaos space marine teams exist. Now count in your head how many Chaos Gods there are in the lore.

Subtract the number of mono-god Kill teams from the total number of Chaos Gods. What number are you at? If the number is 2, then you might not be a COMPLETE idiot.

>>93248075
not him but you kinda suck anon

Any chance of a Bespoke DG team?

>>93248403
idk if there's a way to make a Dark Gangels team that doesn't feel like an elite inquisitor team with less wacky woohoo dude options.

>Space marines
Fuck em

>>93248075
>>93248403
You would think
>but no

How would you make an Elite World bearers team look like? Elite Chaos Space marines are all going to be at home at 6" Move, 3AP, 1GA, 3Def, 3+ Saves, 12 Wounds. Looking back to the last good chaos marine codex, 4th edition.

Leader - Aspiring Champion - Dual Chain Axes
A5, 2+ , 5/6

Free Fight Twice
+1 Inch movement on Charges
Free Charge after downing enemy
Fearless - 14 wounds.

Then picking out five more operatives.
Warrior - Berserker - Chain Axe
A5, 3+ , 5/6

Free Fight Twice
+1 Inch movement on Charges
Free Charge after downing enemy
Fearless - 14 wounds.
4+ Invulnerable Save

Plasma Duellest - Chain Sword
A4, 3+ , 4/6
A4, 3+ , 4/6 Range 6"
Free Shoot Twice
+1 Inch movement
Fearless - 14 wounds.

Glaive Bearer - Glaive
A5, 3+, 5/5, Rend 2

Free Fight Twice
+1 Inch movement on Charges
Free Charge after downing enemy
Fearless - 14 wounds.
4+ Invulnerable Save

Ragebearer
A4, 3+ , 3/4 Chainsword
A4, 3+ , 3/4 Range 6" Boltpistol

+1 Inch Movement
Fearless - 14 wounds
Banner of Rage - Friendly visible units within 6" gain +1 Attack.

Possessed Khornate
Chain Axe
A5, 3+ , 5/6

Free Fight Twice
+1 Inch movement on Charges
Free Charge after downing enemy
Mutable Biology - This unit has 16 wound and a 5+ Feel no Pain

>>93248741
Bloody Apothecary
Bloody Nail
A4, 6+ 1/1 Damage, MW3, Implant
+1 Inch Movement
Adjust Nail - If a friendly visible unit within 3 inches dies, this unit may move 3 inches to be adjacent to the friendly unit. That unit does not die and all other attack die are discarded. The unit returns to 1 hit point and cannot die in this turning point. The Bloody Apothecary loses 1 AP.
Implant- If this weapon hits a Space Marine, Intercessior, Traitor Space Marine, Chaos Space marine or any variation of a Space Marine with a Critical hit that unit is removed from the board and is replaced with a friendly 'Converted Space Marine Unit' that can only make fighting attacks with their fists and who has the same hit points as the removed unit.

Converted Space Marine
Fists
A3, 3+ , 3/4

Maximum Wounds = 12 and their current hit points are set to the same hit points as the removed unit (to the maximum).

Had a real good game of daemonettes vs blades of khaine today, all 3 ploys proved immensely useful, he kept charging me with scorpions and dying, kept leaving my models on 1 or 2 hp with his dire avengers thanks to warp surge forcing either a wasted activation or letting me ephemeral regeneration them back up.

>>93248223
>>93248280
You're acting like it's an act of incomprehensible cruelty to play World Eaters with Chaos Space Marine rules when the world eaters literally did that the past 30 years before GW spun them off into a retarded standalone book literally last year.

What the fuck is wrong with you? Is 2022 unimaginable ancient history now?

>>93248741
>How would you make an Elite World bearers team look like?
I'd include the following
World Eaters Aspiring Champion
World Eaters Chosen
World Eaters Butcher
World Eaters Dual Melee Weapons Guy Who Does Scary Decapitations That Subtract APL
World Eater Possessed
World Eater Gunner
World Eater Heavy Gunner
World Eater Icon Bearer

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Finally tired the Exaction Squad. Didn't use any ploys since the opponent is still learning. Lost, but had so much fun shooting into melee.

A question on PiercingX: I know it triggers on a Crit, but do the rest of the hits get the bonus to armor penetration?

>>93249476
Px is just Sometimes APx, so no multiple crits can't remove more defense dice

>>93249268
>World Eaters Dual Melee Weapons Guy Who Does Scary Decapitations That Subtract APL
Sooo, Shrive Talon?
>World Eater Possessed
And anointed.

Congratulations anon, you just made Legionaries.

Here's what I'd do for WE
>Leader with axe & gun (only gun feller)
>Chainsaw fists
>Ball & chain freak
>WITNESS ME suicide blitzer
>Two axe goons
>One axe goons but extra big axe
>Flamer dude who can overheat his gun and is already on fucking fire
Team ability is reverse injured. Generally mid WS but get faster and stronger at 1/4 health. Also can't do conceal orders after Point One.

>>93247960
as already demonstrated by the other special CSM teams, a farsight pathfinders team would have specific ploys and flavor. Farsight pathfinders are not just red pathfinders with the farsight logo, they are farsight pathfinders.

>>93249729
I mean, yeah? We already have khorne/nurgle legionaries and tau pathfinders
What's your point?

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>>93249524

>>93249754
Teams that can be done with a color swap are retarded and add nothing to the game.

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Why does my Nachmund book keep referencing World Eaters? I've been told Legionary isn't meant for World Eaters. Can a space marine with the mark of Khorne wielding a gigantic chain axe really represent a World Eater?

>>93249852
It should be obvious by now that the kill teams being released are designed to either refresh old troop choices or full gaps in existing ranges. Mandrakes and striking scorpions needed new kits so gw decided to make them kill teams. The night lord upgrade kit was old as fuck so it got a refresh. Berserkers and plague marines are all recent so I wouldn't expect a new kill team anytime soon

>>93249863
>Even within these forces there is much variety

>>93249863
Are you autistic Anon?

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Legionaries = any chaos marine
Some people have no cure

>>93250246
Bro got da black ice skin

>>93246813
>kasrkin still sub-45% just like at 99% of the time since they've been out except for conveniently before a dataslate.
Hate to say it but he was right. Team really can't win without BS3+.

>>93250349
Kommandos, Fellgore and Vet Guard

>>93246565
>TQ
-Compendium rework or compendium additions (more like hunter clade or Blades of khain in style).
-Boss battles would be interesting IF they could implement it right what i am not sure if that is even possible.
-Vehicles only in context with boss battles i guess.
-More active terrain, i like the Conveyor belts from the White Dwarf for Boarding Action but something like turrets spotlights and such that need to be operated, just things you can interact with would be nice, not just roll dice autoturret goes brrrt or sandstorm makes woosh.

I dont care if there are khornate marines special kill team. I will use the legionaries rules for khornates and khornate minis to represent them, just as I use tzaangors for my felgor and battle sisters for my novitiates. There are goddamned tyranids without own team, which is definetely - DEFINETELY - not due to them having more "beastial" look and less "humanoid" one, and tyranids deserve their team first. DG do not have bespoken either and they are here since forever.
So stop screaming about yet another marine team you spoiled child, especially when DG did not get one, and they have bigger room to play with their theme. I would rather see some obscure xenos species or administratum on the warpath than globe crunchers. Next thing people like you will scream about will be space marine chapters. No. You had enough so let others have some fun without. Play zerkers with own custom rules if needed, I wish you luck and have fun, but right now demanding more is detrimental to the others.
Captcha NYGRAA does express my inner turmoil.

>>93247553
What should I leave out, ventriloquist or poison guy? Poison guy seems kinda situational to me, dunno if it's actually better than a plasma gun guy

>>93250691
Sensible. How would you change kroot?

>>93249486
>>93249476
I don't get it. I thought apX was a malus to the Save, not that it removes X defense dice.

>>93251989
That's in 40k, APx in KT removes save dice full stop.

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>>93252000
Ohhhhh, that changes things. Thank you. I shall keep that in mind for next match.

In the meantime, I'll return to begging for the Soulshackle pdf because now I'm not sure if Arbites get 8W base or if it used to be 7W and the 8W was from the balance slate.

>>93251681
Hard to say they are already pretty close to what i imagine compendium teams to be, They are definitly missing Specops rules and actualisation of the units to the new codex, some ploys and equipment would not hurt, mixing them with vespids as tau auxiliary could work as well, maybe.

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>>93252016
I'm not scanning the whole book but they are now eight wounds. Just buy the book. It's literally £42.50 on GW, go to your FLGS for 20% off RRP. Respectfully, you'd know the rules properly if you'd read them in the book. How're you going to play a game without the rules? Px and APx have worked the same way for three years. Octarius and the starter set both have the core rulebook, or buy it separately. Shit, I've got three copies from Octarius, Into the Dark and the starter set.

>>93252284
I also own Octarius, Into The Dark, and Moroch. It's just taken me this long to get anyone to play it.

>>93252415
Fair enough. Grind through the rules, make sure you know them back to front and you'll have a better gaming experience.

>>93252853
i've never played a game that rewarded system mastery like this, while harshly punishing newbies

>>93253068
Me neither. When I play new players I feel like that kid in the playground who had a bulletproof invisibility shield that was a mobile base for it, gotta be right at all costs. But the reality is I have placed that operative very carefully using RAW to ensure it is safe.

>>93253291
>But the reality is I have placed that operative very carefully using RAW to ensure it is safe.
yeah I ain't built for this type of gameplay, gotchas always feel bad when all info is supposed to be available but the main tactic to counteract that is cognitive overload

Yo I'm a mega noobster on KT, still looking at rules and stuff, but why exactly there is no terminator squad? I guess you could reskin death guard or bananamen (not evena single heavy weapon from whst i can see tho), but what the hell? Really gw?

>>93253582
Terminators aren't really built for Kill Team level engagements. A single terminator squad can decapitate command structures from teleport strikes, hold pinch points for weeks on end without resupply or support, survive in the harshest environments and are capable of walking through some of the nastiest gribblies in the galaxy. A chapter normally has a maximum of 100 veterans and less sets of tactical Dreadnaught armour, each of which is a hallowed relic of the chapter. Sending a squad of terminators against a few ork Kommandos or a squad of cultists is just not a good use of resources. It would be the equivalent of space marines in necromunda. It's the wrong power level. Kill Team is small bands of battle hardened (but very mortal) warriors duking it out.
>what about Custodes?
They were a mistake. There's a reason GW haven't given them a team since the compendium, yet no one is moaning about it (unlike Death Guard and Tyranids)

>>93253701
>There's a reason GW haven't given them a team since the compendium, yet no one is moaning about it
Yeah and the reason is that their compendium team is bespoke level and has taken tournaments.

>>93253714
>their compendium team is bespoke leve
It really isn't. They lack tac ops, spec ops, specialists of any description, any unique team rules of any kind.
>has taken tournaments.
At first maybe, when they were APL4. They got cut back pretty quickly. Nowadays they are just folded into compendium for tournie statistics, and they don't stand out.

>>93253776
I meant power level, not depth.
Anyways, as far as compendium goes, they are the strongest, and they've taken 2 tournaments this season.

>>93253701
That makes sense, but it's really boring

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I know someone's mentioned xeno mercs/minor xenos kill teams but what if they were pitted against imperially sanctioned xenos? Would be a good look at the smaller scale conflicts of the smaller scale aliens

>>93254049
I could be into a ratling team. It'd be slow as fuck and totally a ranged team but be able to shoot obscured operatives, indirect rule for targeting concealed in cover, etc. Maybe even a mechanic like the guard action for the gallowdark.

>>93253917
You want to play terminators, go play 40k. Kill Team is the small specialised game.

Darktide is amazing without a single marine visible. Space hulk was wank and had nothing but terminators.

>>93254336
>Space hulk was wank
Space Hulk is the best game GW ever made, now shut your whole mouth

>>93254676
The video Game. I would never besmirch the board game.

>>93254676
I think he's talking about Space Hulk: Deathwing
The video game
Which doesn't have a lot but it does nail the aesthetic pretty well. I'm quite fond of it honestly.

>>93246565
>World Eaters got one
What would be cool for World Eaters? A lot of what I want for them is above Terminator scale.

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>>93254691
>>93254695
my bad cheers

>>93249624
>Team ability is reverse injured.
That's neat.
>Flamer guy who flamers harder and is on fire
That sells me.

>>93246565
>TQ
3 man 6 apl 2+/4++ termies
hammer+shield, lightning claws, assault cannon+fist

>>93252853
I mean it's not that uncommon of a mistake. I've made it myself.

>>93253068
it can be a bit hard to get into (especially learning the tempo that the decisions that you make generates) but guy was just being a dingus. Use Wahapedia, do your best. All it takes.

>>93253776
A lot of the compendium teams if used well can be competitive. The game is hugely about the decisions (placement, trades, etc) you make on the table. Even comparing 40% to 60% win rate (so one team is 50% more winning then the other) that's not that huge a spread, the custodes team is strong, hell technically plaguemarines are strong (they don't lose fights, they loose on points), Warp coven are competitive. It's a bit of an expert player flex but its very possible. Player skill is a far bigger gulf then the hypothetical 50% from the book.

>>93254336
Would a chaos terminator and maybe 3 pink daemons get to being a fairer fight?

>>93254871
>Warp coven are competitive
Do you mean Brood coven? Warp Coven is a white dwarf team.
If you mean brood coven, got any info on how they're being played competitively?

Space Wolf kill team idea
>Wolflord with Wolfhammer and Wolfcape
>Wolfviking with Wolfshield (can pick wolfaxe or wolfsword)
>Wolfzerker with Wolfclaws
>Wolfscout with Wolfgrappling Wolfhook
>Wolfshaman with Wolfmagic
>Wolfwarriors with Wolfbolters
>Wolfwolves
Ability is Saga, At Turning Point One, you start your Saga with a free team dash, then in each subsequent turning point, your Saga is affected by binary factors; if you control more points, if your opponent is over the central line, and if you're below half of your starting units. Basically your Saga changes as the game changes and either helps keep momentum or tries to recoup losses.