What are some tips for building a good and memorable villain for my game?
Build a hero with goals that put him on collision course with the party.
I'm a fan of Subtle. The villain you don't recognize as the villain at first. It's tough to pull off but those are the ones I always remember.
>>93357150Give him goals, purpose, and don't be afraid to have him impact the world.Even if his goal is to cause chaos and his purpose is to summon the great honkmother, the fact there will be areas of impassable terrain due to banana peels, or evidence of people bludgeoned to death with squeaky hammers will stick in people's minds when they see him and his utter dedication
>>93357150He needs to actively fuck with you party, and be a dick. To get players to engage with your villain, they can't just be the Dark Lord who burned down someone's home in their backstory: they need to actively inconvenience the party early on.One thing that I stole from somewhere that worked quite well was, in an early adventure, have the BBEG scrying them and offering snide commentary about what they were doing from a familiar or something. The players had a grudge after that.
>>93357150Fuck subtlety. I know GMs who use subtlety, and they're all cowards. If your villain doesn't fit in a lineup with these guys, then you are a failure.
>>93357150Steal the PCs shit. PCs are materialistic as all hell. It's why the Kender hate meme was so big back in 2011.Someone steals their shit, especially shit they stole from someone else in a previous adventure; they'll chase that fucker to the ends of the goddamned wor0ymdhld.
>>93357150southern accent.
Procedurally generate him using random tables
>>93357150>nice old guy party was helping turns out to be a leader in the Villain's plotkinography
>>93357150Go watch Kamen Rider Build, and pay close attention to the character of Blood Stalk.
>>93357230This anon has the truth of it.
Make it personal for the players. Not personal for the villain. Not even personal for the player's characters. Make the players love to hate this guy and cheer when you announce they've snuffed his light for good.
>>93357481Atlantis: The Lost Empire
>>93357230Based Garthnigga. You are clearly retarded, but I respect your integrity.
As someone else posted years ago: make the villain's plans intersect the players. Not every time, but one out of every three quests or so, have the villain's mooks show up looking for the same thing PCs are tasked to deliver. Or kill the people PCs are supposed to protect. Or divert the shipment they need for themselves. Keep doing this, and eventually they will seek out the villain on their own just so that he's not fucking with their plans any more.Works even better than >>93357361 because you're not taking anything the PCs already have away, but the players think of the quests as a "done deal" and resent "their" reward going somewhere else.Bonus - you get to put progressively more competent mooks/lieutenants up against the PCs. They get to win without ending him with a lucky crit.
>>93358597That movie sucked and deserved to be forgotten.
>Make minions and beasts under his command attack and annoy the players constantly. Make sure all claim loyalty to Anon the Almighty and they all carry his symbol and tell things about him. This allow the players to win or lose battles with him and feel his presence, and yet become progressively eager to meet him and end him.>Undo achievements of the players, mess with characters from their background. That village they saved is now burnt to the ground by the army of Anon the Almighty.>Steal the players stuff. Attack them when they're trying to sleep or recover. "After the battle ends, you realize that a few spies from the Anon's Army took your stuff. You know have only what's in your hands.">Mock the player characters in the villains voice. Mockery is always a pleasure to punch, sometimes even more than evil.>Make some NPC provide something extremely convenient and useful free of charge early in the game and let the players get used to how easy things are because of the good old friendly NPC. Then make a challenging quest that needs the NPC help, and when the thing is almost complete, kill the NPC.>Make some friends for the villain, people he trusts and that help him. Competent evil people who share the same goals. Use these guys as mid bosses, make them do terrible things in the name of Anon, the Almighty.>Crush the player characters pretty early in the game and then leave them alive. Revenge is delicious.>Whenever they need a Neutral NPC help, deny. "I can't be seen helping the sworn enemies of Anon the Almighty, for I don't want to look bad in his eyes."Other good villain:He is always weaker than the players, but somehow he always survives and always comes back a little stronger. At some point, he wins. And then he wins again, but easily. Then the players are humiliated.
>>93357150>>93357230Unironically this. People will say make a subtle villain or one with understandable motives, but what people fail to realize is the distance between how they imagine their villain and what the players see. You or the people recommending such things are not master poets or actors who with only words can make one feel for an imaginary entity. Trying to make a subtle villain often leads to just a bland or forgettable villain. So be unsubtle. Be hammy. Chew the scenery. And have fun.
I would say one the most interesting villains my old group came to be actually pretty naturally. it was a modern based game and we ended up making an enemy of a local deputy. we were a dysfunctional standard party and he was in fact a pretty upstanding law enforcement, the problem was where the two met. he slowly descended into madness trying to bring us to justice as we left chaos in our wake and managed to stay just one step of our consequences.now I should reiterate we were good guys trying to save the day though the specifics have faded away over time. we just were not very good at it. this man just wanted justice but slipped further away from sane every time we slipped away.I remember we were in a local small hospital that he had tracked us down to. we were grabbing supplies, and following a lead I think. he set the whole thing on fire to kill us while chasing us around with his handgun. since to him us being there was just going to result in that fire anyways and he needed a distraction after we trapped him, and to be fair he was probably right about the fire. if he could just get us he thought then the counties nightmare would be over. he didn't know about the real evil but had made the connection we were somehow in the mix
>>93357150And you provided none
>>93357150Have multiple powerful NPCs in the world with mutually opposing goalsThe PCs meet some or all of themThe PCs actions advantage some, disadvantage othersOne or more NPCs get desperate, compromise on morality to regain power or goalsPCs will need to act more strongly to keep things how they want itIt gets personal Villainy ensues
>>93357230I do appreciate that this pic seems to imply that Skeletor is the absolute epitome of the Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, the platonic ideal of the character. If these guys ever formed a Legion of Doom, he'd definitely be the leader that all the others keep trying to backstab and betray.I'm also noticing that GI Joe is on there twice with Serpentor and Cobra Commander both.
>>93357230I think I just had an evilgasm
>>93357150A good villain needs to be competent. The players should feel threatened, but not necessarily overwhelmed. Having a non-hostile encounter with the villain to let him flex a bit isn't a bad idea.He also needs to be relatable, but unsympathetic. It should be clear why the villain believes the things he does, but also that the things he believes in are unquestionably deranged.The villain needs a strong vision. He's out here to achieve something, and it needs to become clear over time what the villain is trying to do.Villains are really important because they represent the central conflict of a story, and the conflict drives the narrative.
>>93360156>It's a rather than providing ideas in an idea thread, Anon decides to deconstruct the concept of ideas episode.I hate reruns.>>93357150The most important thing is that he wronged the PCs personally. If he is just some generic end of the world threat, players will not be any more emotional towards him than the next random combat encounter.
>>93360156>OP asks for tips>anon expects him to provide themThere's a limit to how socially clueless you can be.
>>93357150there's really only 3 things you need him to do>show up>antagonize the PCs>survive doing the abovethis is actually why liches are such a popular villain, they have a baked-in mechanism for the 3rd point so you really only need to do the first two and your villain's established.also note that lackeys can also serve the same purpose, and many an adventure has started because "we need to find the boss of the guy who fucked with us and kick his ass for fucking with us"
>>93357150Barnes isn't a villain. Just misunderstood
Make the PCs want to kill him really badly.
>>93357150give him a strongly held belief or two that you hold yourself... then make him willing to ANYTHING for that belief including but not limited too treading all over other beliefs you hold sacred
give him a goal that he can realistically execute.
>>93357230This is missing Golobulus and his floating beanbag throne.
>>93364244This
>>93357230This is especially true if you've already got a system that promotes archetypes, like DnD.
>>93357164Boring
>>93360902>>93360902>Villains are really important because they represent the central conflict of a story, and the conflict drives the narrative.I agree
>>93357150Use one of the CR 20 character sheets from the survivors of the last campaign
>>93357230It should be the oppositeDon’t be afraid to give your antagonist heroic qualities, traditional “good” powers and magic like being a Druid instead of a Necromancer, and then make the protagonist do something bad to him that tragically makes him go off the deep end
>>93357230What kind of ttrpg monster would best embody the Saturday morning cartoon villain? Is a skeletal lich too barebones? I've been digging mind flayers lately. And of course evil dragons are a classic.
>>93357150Evil people don't normally think of themselves as evil, and do evil shit because it's evil. That's cartoonish shit, suitable for Saturday Morning Cartoon simulation games.Instead, villains should have a rational reason for doing what they do, assuming they're entirely sane. They do evil shit because it's easier and they don't really care who they hurt (callous evil), or because they were wronged so badly they never forgot it (vengeful evil), or because they believe their cause is just (righteous evil), or just because it's a means to an end that will justify all the pain and hurt (desperate evil).Mind you, even insanity has it's logic. I firmly believe delusions are the human mind trying to excuse and explain hallucinations. Feeling watched all the time? Logically, it must be because of cameras. Tore a car apart looking for them and didn't find it? The cameras must be very small, very high tech. Logically, only the CIA would have access to that kind of thing. Torn the car apart, swept the pieces for bugs and still found nada, but still feel like you're being watched? Somu Christu, the cameras must be behind my eyes. Etc/
>>93382652a beholder would fit well i'd think
>>93382652something egotistical, powerful, either not very smart or constantly fucking up due to personal obsessions, with minionsBeholder with mixed bag of minionsDragon with army of koboldsor giant commanding orcs and goblinsDrow priestes with slaves, spiders, and occasional demons (made as kinky as Totally Spies, but not an inch more)
>>93381932Unless “something bad” is defined as “foiling my evil scheme to turn everyone into monkeys”, then no. You are trying to introduce subtlety. You are a coward.
>>93384366Coward.
>>93384366When you see assholes selling drugs to kids even if they get enough money to live off their insurance because of an accident that unluckily didn't kill them then yes, you can believe that there's people doing evil shit because it's evil.
>>93358724I'll fucking kill you.
>>93357150Don't spend any more time than you need to make him, and actually play the fucking villain. >Ganglord>Prosthetic eye>Wants to take over the gambling den the rival gang owns>Is into occultismNow just give him a name and play it. You very quickly get diminishing returns on almost all game prep. The extra effort spent fleshing out his complex relationship with his daughter would probably be better off used on mapping out his HQ and where he keeps his intel and wealth.
>>93384366Which do you think applies to child rapists?
>>93381932A villain with some integrity is nice. A villain of another stripe is nice. But having the players create them is gay AF my nigga. The only time my players created their own villain was when they challenged a Jarl who was trying to die in battle and got their shit rekt but managed to distract and crowd control him until they stole his flaming axe and ran away. The Jarl was furious and spent the next few sessions tracking them down while they worked to get enough money or friends to stop him or at least slow him down. Odin himself aided him in his quest and he became a sort of Mr. X or Nemesis character. Several times they considered just giving back the axe but everyone kinda knew that he'd just rip them to pieces for inconveniencing him. His blind fury was legendary and on one occasion he mulched an entire squad of town guards for daring to get between him and the party. He would murder people who were outright giving him the things he wanted in his berserker fury. Life had no meaning for him. Even my party of murderhobo miscreants were put off by how kill crazy he was. Know why this worked? Because he was nowhere near the main foe. He was a different, unique threat compared to the hordes of hideous monsters and cultists of an alien evil that was the greater campaign wide threat our party was facing.
>>93384366as>>93385634>>93388897kind of >imply there is also people who do evil shit because they are sadistic on some inherent level and more or less incapable of giving a shit about others. Close to being callous evil but here the goal is to pull the wings off flies and watch them crawl around, so they actually are kind of invested in the hurting rather than merely apathetic or mildly amused.Ofc, these people aren't *usually* hilariously goofy like Skeletor, or intelligent and resourceful planners like Skeletor, or particularly charming and beautiful also like Skeletor. Being around them when they're showing signs of their awfulness is usually just off-putting and uncomfortable, like watching a blatantly psychopathic kid torturing an animal while having the look of a crackhead getting his next fix. The image of a stereotypical brutish thug exists for a reason, and the reason is that some people lack impulse control or empathy and greatly enjoy hurting others, and in a setting where that's an easy option for money on account of evil wizards and scheming dragons being fuckin' everywhere, you'll run into them- that's basically what the original Orc design was. Something memorable is how far-reaching the consequences have been in both big and small ways, as well as the explanation of how the hell these dastardly motherfuckers have gotten as far as they have, which is where intellect, innate talents, or exploited connections to greater powers can come into play. Also as >>93358926 said, neutral NPCs withholding help out of fear unless properly convinced, which is at least once proven to be a rational fear when Badguy McMurder kills someone important enough to be named earlier, such as a friendly Life Cleric who doled out cheap revivals and heals in the early game, or a town guard who helped them avoid jail time once in exchange for a favor.
>>93357230Seriously. Fuck "MUH HERO OF MUH OWN STORY." You want a villain. Not some crying dindu nuffin nonce who spends more time justifying his shit than owning it.
>>93357150He believes his own hype.
>>93390244You say that but Doom had a good argument
Unironically avoid anything that makes a villain "deep".I'm not saying don't give him a backstory or a motivation, because you should. I'm saying you don't need to add a bunch of layers to his character in an attempt to make him 'complex', because the reality is that while doing that might work in movies and books, it doesn't work that well in RPGs. You can certainly try, but you'll realize quickly that your players aren't going to see any of that unless you have other NPCs give exposition. Which most players won't care about. They won't care that he's trying to bring back his dead wife, or that he believes himself to be doing the right thing, or that he just wants all the puppies in the world for himself or whatever the fuck. Your players aren't going to see that. Your players are going to see a bad guy and they're gonna try jumping him.So give the players what they want. They're expecting a real villain, and you should give them one. Go with the classics. A dragon, a dark lord, an evil sorcerer, an eldritch horror, a lich, a vampire lord, what have you. All of these archetypes have been done many times before and usually have motivations prescribed to them, and that's because they work. They want power, they want to rule the world, to destroy the living, to get revenge on the forces of light for defeating them in the past, or to just be released from their prison. Because all your players need to know is the villain is a looming threat across the campaign, he has an evil motivation, and he'll fuck shit up if they don't stop him.RPGs aren't the medium for Hannibal Lecter or Johan Liebert, but they're perfect for Sauron and Frieza.
>>93357230>>93358987I feel like when people say "understandable motives" they mean "sympathetic motives". A character's actions being understandable is not mutually exclusive with being consciously wicked. I understand why Stalin did the things he did but he was also an obviously wicked man.
>>93390515He had half of a good argument. If he had an actually good argument, he wouldn't have been beheaded.
>>93390689One of my favorite villain bits I ever wrote was this necromancer-in-disguise who told a story about how once when he was traveling, he happened upon a seaside village that was trying to save a beached whale. He joined in and helped them get the whale back into the water, but the whale just beached itself again. When he and the villagers examined the whale more closely, they discovered that the whale's spine was broken - it was paralyzed and couldn't swim. It was beaching itself so it couldn't drown, even though its own weight was crushing it to death on land, because when faced with the choice to drown in minutes or suffocate for hours, the whale preferred the latter choice. The lesson the necromancer learned was that life, at any price, is preferable to death.The story might have been completely made-up (although whales do this in real life sometimes), but you can see how it perfectly encapsulated the necromancer's entire worldview, how he is using it to explain and justify why it's okay for him to be a terrible person and to do terrible things to extend his life.Never explained the necromancer's backstory, never gave even the slightest hint about where he was from or why he became so obsessive about living forever, and I never put any thought into who he might have been. But the story definitely worked to ground the necromancer and make him more than just another random encounter.
>have the villain write the party, say they're willing to meet and talk>when the players show up at the meeting location, a note is left behind>note says "I kidnapped [player's favorite npc here]. You're a fucking idiot."After that shit will write itself
>>93390840But why would someone lie like that?
>>93357150Throw different villains at your players until you score a few "hits." Bring back the hits here and there and present new information for the players to become even more invested. This is an art, not a science. The key is that all your prep is nothing compared to actual gameplay. You may put all your creativity into a lead zeppelin but then you whip a guy together with zero prep and he ends up being the villain that the players remember fondly. Be on the alert.
>>93390844It's the villain
>>93390515He had a good philosophy but the only thing he ever regretted was how much time he wasted not his actions. He wanted power when he attacked Conan's village and he wanted it when he met Conan again. He regarded the whole incident with almost nostalgic smugness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgN1sLcAQnwA villain can and should have a philosophy. Maybe something drove him to it. But it's the philosophy that matters. We're not here for his backstory unless some element is germane to his defeat.
>>93381932> Is/Ought Fallacy> Every villain must be tragic.> Every villain must be caused by the heroes.Gay, lame, and pretentious.
>>93357164Doesn't need to be a hero. Just needs to be a son of a bitch.
>>93390774It helps to know WHY a villain became a villain but it doesn't change that they ARE a villain. Because even a villain with the most sympathetic motives aren't a character who's supposed to be redeemed. If there's an extra layer there at all it's an example and a reminder who we ourselves could end up on the same path if not for different circumstances. Magneto's origin wasn't meant to be a excuse for his actions they're meant to show how sorrow and pain causes people to become the same as the monsters they hated and how without stronger morals will end up in a never ending cycle of violence and hate.
>>93357185>don't be afraid to have him impact the world.To add onto this, give the scenarios clear stakes and consequences of failure. OTOH, make the villain have his own stakes. If he survives or gets away, keep notes on what happened to him and use that to figure out his next mvy8wkkove.
>>93390916>> Every villain must be tragic.I feel like people have also sort of lost target of what it means to be a tragic character. You hear the word TRAGIC and most people go to a definition of sadness and that's not wholly accurate. A a tragic character is more accurately one who is as much the cause of his own circumstances as the world that created them. To use Magneto again; The tragedy of his character isn't the pain he experienced as a child in WW2. That's the inciting incident. The tragic element is that the event caused him to become broken to a point where he's every bit the monster that created him. Even the Red Skull called him out on it before. The tragedy of Magneto isn't him having a sad backstory. It's that any potential he had for good was lost and even he doesn't really realize what a monster he is. He represents what the heroes could have become if they lost their own way and, not to get all Star Warsy, fell to the dark side. Though I suppose Anakin Vader is a good example too. Anyways, a tragic character isn't a sad character a tragic character is a character who falls.
>>93390955>mvy8wkkovegesundheit
>>93390976>Israel.jpg
>>93390992Oh godammit.
I feel like it's more important to set up a bunch of interesting encounters, traps and battles than talking about the main villain. I feel like there's a lot of questions asked that can easily be resolved by saying "Stop trying to write your campaign like it's a novel."
>>93390905Nostalgic but also a kind of weird understanding. "Oh, right, that period of my life. Okay, I guess it makes sense that you hate me."
>>93392942>I feel like>I feel likeCan you be any more of a pathetic basedboy faggot?
Their goal should be more important than being an obstacle/enemy to the PCs.Even Mr. Evil McMustachtwerling should care more about himself and his objectives than about sticking it to the PCs.That's that's main thing. It has always worked for me.In practice it means that not every action taken by the bad guy will impact the PCs. Sometimes they will have to be proactive and not just wait for the bad guys to come to them.Even with a clear enemy goal, how they go about it can be unclear, so it introduces a little mystery/tactics to the adventure. That's an easy way to make the enemy memorable to the players by making their choices matter.
>>93357150As always the answer is gay sex.
>>93393865Yeah that's what I mean. He gets it. He doesn't apologize but he gets it. He knows he's the badguy.
>>93394205seems legit, worked for Griffith
>>93394159I feel like you're insecure in your own insecurity
>>93357230This. Make your villain comically evil or unapologetically evil.Evil doesn't need justification sometimes.
>>93360156Based Czterej Pancerni poster
Moral grandstanding with severe character flaws is always fun. Try to spin the player characters as being in the wrong as much as possible to give the villain motivation and an excuse to be evil.
>>93357150Many people are saying to do a certain kind of villain, but I don't think that's the best advice. The type of villain you use is more of a matter of the kind of story you are trying to tell, and the temperament of your players. Some groups don't give a flying fuck about motives or philosophy and just want an asshole to kill. Others are here for the story and will get bored if every villain is a 2D cutout. The most important thing about making a good and memorable villain is giving the players a reason to care about stopping him. He doesn't need to kick puppies or kill their parents, but he does need to exist in stark opposition to them and routinely do things that cause the players to get invested in his downfall, even if the necessity of RPG combat means he probably needs to work through minions most of the time. Also, give them personality. These don't need to be "humanizing" traits per se. Take Emperor Palpatine. Everyone loves Palpatine because he's such a spiteful evil shit, we enjoy him because he is enjoying himself in being the absolute worst. TL;DR: Make PCs invested in their downfall and give them recognizable and consistent traits so they will go "Oh that's so The BBEG." whenever he does anything. >>93364244No Barnes is 100% a villain, and any points in his favor evaporate the moment he teamkills Elias, who was doing the real tough guy warrior shit Barnes is always posturing about.
>>93382652Inept Lich is the ultimate cartoon villain because they can literally come back every week with a new plan. I made a really low-grade version of one the enduring rival of one of my table's PCs as part of his background to continuously return with new hired mooks and a burning intent to fuck around with whatever he had going on.
>>93406678That does perfectly embody the spirit. I guess they are generally too strong to really break out until much later on.
>>93406678Baller. How did he act and dress?
>>93398627Griffith won because all his creator did was beat off to idolmaster doujins until he died.
>>93357230>cool design>striking henchmen>a lot of energy and willpowerThis anon gets, this is what make any villain memorable. Anything else is cope.
>>93408843They also tend to have very memorable voices.One villain I wish I could include but the rules won't let me include a picture of is the original, G1 Lord Tirac from the pilot, "Rescue at Midnight Castle". His design is great and his voice is like liquid sex.>"Rainbow of Darkness that darkness sends, now begin the Night that Never Ends!"
>>93408965I guarantee you no one would get on you for posting G1 Lord Tirac. That's got nothing to do with why the rule was made or what the rule was meant to encapsulate. Hell, nobody would even recognize the property he's from on sight alone.
>>93390955I agree with this as well.In my most recent campaign the players had repeatedly fucked with a villain but since their goal was to embarrass him he kept being able to escape.It finally culminated with them getting a radio report about his untimely demise because they fucked with him so badly he had no allies and limited resources and made an exceptionally stupid move in his desperation
>>93409052Well, here he is then. 100% fits into a lineup of classic Saturday Morning cartoon villains. And like I said, his voice sounds like liquid sex.
>>93357150have an escape plan. doesn't have to be a complex one but should have a reasonable chance of working. trigger it the second the villain realizes he's not going to win the fight.
The modern /tg/ trend of "noooo you cant have ANY nuance" is fucking bizarre
>>93409166>Noooooooo my story and villain are super complex and engaging and all my players need to go along with my epic role play! yeah save it for the book
>>93357150Rape?
>>93409166These things come in cycles. Nuance is out right now, it became hackneyed and seen as pretentious. Soon enough it'll be in again because cartoon villainy will be dismissed as tired and shallow. As it goes.
>>93410010You shouldn't be proud of being a brainlet with brainlet players anon(not that you actually have players)
>>93411051Anon, when I say "villain", dimes to dollars that the first thing that pops into your head is The Joker. If you didn't know about this thread and a guy just came up to you and asked you to list out the first ten villains that pop into your head, that list would absolutely be dominated by over-the-top villains who chew all the scenery like it was a cheat day on a diet they were never committed to in the first place.The first overriding priority of a game is to be fun, and the villains who tend to be the most fun to interact with are the ones who have the memorable appearances and lines and goals and who just exude presence and personality. They might be capable of subtlety and deception, Hell, they may even be excellent at it. But when push comes to shove, they are the hammiest of hams.Pic related. Jon Irenicus is smooth, subtle, voiced by the genteel David Warner (my favorite voice actor, also known for playing Ra's al-Ghul in Batman: the Animated Series, Chancellor Gorkon in Star Trek VI, Jack the Ripper in Time After Time, The Lobe in Freakazoid!, and Admiral Tolwyn in Wing Commander), and is exceptional at being clandestine and keep things things close to the chest. But when he has an opportunity to cut loose...>"You dare to attack me here...? Do you have any idea whom you face? YOU WILL SUFFER! You will ALL suffer!">"I cannot be CAGED. I cannot be CONTROLLED. Understand this even as you die, ever pathetic, ever fools.">""And now I hunger only for revenge. And...I...WILL...HAVE IT!"
>>93409166Most GMs are shitty writers who can’t pull it off, and most players will either be so tunnel-visioned that they’ll fail to pick up on it or they’ll wonder why this guy’s the villain in the first place because the GM went too far in making them sympathetic.
>>93410018
>>93408748https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWRaAF6_WY
>>93357230terachad>>93382652dragon in disguise
>>93384570>(made as kinky as Totally Spies, but not an inch more)So incredibly kinky, but presented in a way so kids don't realize they're getting six new fetishes from a single episode?
>>93412397Well said.>The JokerAnd don't let the terrible modern interpretations of the character sour you on him. Jeff Bennett's Joker from The Brave and the Bold is an underrated gem buried under the post-Dark Knight malaise. >David WarnerYeeesss.>The Lobe in Freakazoid!I'll make an illithid out of him.
>>93357230disgustingly based
>>93414232>The Brave and the BoldB&B is a surprisingly faithful bit of silver age camp. Etrogan was always a lark when he showed up.
>>93414466Indeed. I miss it.
>>93357150I have stolen speeches from Raul Julia's M. Bison wholesale.
>>93357230Kneel one and all, and bear witness to the once and future best answer to this thread in all its forms.
>>93414232Personally TAS Joker will always be my favorite; Mark Hammill's take is the epitome of iconic. I love Cesar Romero from '60s Batman, though. But I also like Heath Ledger, because as dark and edy as he was, he remembered the most important aspect of the Joker: he has to be funny. Like the whole conversation he has with Harvey about order and chaos...while dressed in drag as a nurse. Or his pencil magic trick ("Ohhhh! it's...it's gone!"). Or the incredulous look on his face when Batman tells him to let Rachel go as Joker's busy dangling her off a roof which just screams "you're really setting me up like that?">>93415035And you were right to do so. Julia as Bison is, and I say this without a single hint of irony, one of the best villain performances of all time.
>>93416022Indeed, Hamill's Joker is the best one, and Ledger's was good on its own, even though the sorry state the character is in now is largely due to writers trying to ape him while missing the point and forgetting that important aspect.
>>93357150from learning to like them as a friendAnd then realizing their motivation as betrayer of their moral values. They realize their morals are either wrong or that they are the bad guys.>Let your players realize they've been the villains the whole time
How do I do a good female villain?
>>93416933Think of a male villain. Then take away reason and accountability.
>>93416933mating press
>>93357230Absolutely basedNot the only way to do it, but definitely a great approach that should not be overlooked.
>>93360902Good stuff.
>>93357230Excellent taste. Original TAS Joker could be in there too, ya know before he became a cuck to Harley.
>>93412397Love Inrecus. I wish I was an amazing voice actor, it does so much heavy lifting for villains and just memorable characters period.It's just so hard to practice, I should just try more. A sincere attempt is still of more substance then no attempt at all.
>>93416933Just make a good villain who happens to be female. That doesn't mean you don't lean into the female part, but just don't overthink it. And don't get disgruntled if your players want to fuck them.
>>93417159>Don't get disgruntled if your players want to fuck them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdEo_t-iVbM
>>93357150Remove heroes. Make every major NPC varying degrees of asshole. From time to time introduce a legitimate bastard, just a real piece of shit. I've found that this makes the players less prone to annoying "murder hobo" shit and more likely to take their characters' morals seriously. It's like when Americans travel internationally and see other Americans acting like stupid assholes so it makes you more mindful of how rude and obnoxious you are. The secondary benefit of making all of your major NPCs a bunch of fuckholes is that you can just wait until your players latch onto one of them as particularly hateable and make them a serious villain.
>>93417619>european cannot go 5 minutes without mentioning americansThe heat is really melting their brains.
>>93417697I'm American. I'm just not oblivious to how obnoxious we are to the rest of the world.
>>93417787It's because the ones who can afford to travel to other countries are typically the biggest pieces of shit already exploiting other people at home.
>>93357150True villains aren't over-the-top showmen or impulsive retards. They're ordinary people that lack scruples and are willing to succeed at any cost, even if that means hurting innocent people.The reveal of a villain shouldn't be marked with explosives or theatrics. It should be like running into a bear in the woods. It should be mundane, sudden, and the players should immediately know the villain is evil on an instinctual level. >players walk into a town>they near the tavern, hear people arguing. one begging and pleading, the other talking in a curt tone of voice.>as they approach the front door, two men walk out. The first is a man in slightly dusted (albeit very neat) clothes with emerald cufflinks, carrying a hatchet in one hand and a splitting stump in the other. >the second is what appears to be a pauper, pleading with the first man for clemency>"please sir, have mercy!">"you had your debt, you chose to defer it. Bring the boy here by sundown or you'll lose the rest of your fingers instead."
>>93418008COWARD.
>>93418008That's not a villain, that's a bit enforcer at best. He's a speedbump to the man he works for who's collecting, who in and of themselves wouldn't be a villain so much as a mafioso.
>>93418289That wasn't the villain.
>>93418335That's the first thing I said.
>>93418344No.. no, anon.The gambler is the villain. The guy willing to sacrifice his child.Verification not required.
>>93418396Vat a tweest.
>>93418008That’s just a different form of theatrics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyhJ69mD7xI
Make a villain so likeable the players are quietly excited for the next time they run into them.
