Recently got into a SWN campaign and am now coming up on my third session. So far I have been having a lot of fun and I like the system, though I do really wish it had committed to just not having a d20 at all. Coming from AD&D and GURPS background everyone said SWN is very "OSR" but it feels very 3.5/Pathfinder to me.My group consists of 3 players each with a primary and backup character in the event of character death. So far we have for the primary characters a Human Psychic, an Alien Psychic/Warrior, a Human Expert/Warrior and for the backups we have a Human Expert, an Alien Expert and an Alien Expert/Warrior.One Alien is a dog-man and has infrared, night-vision and enhanced smell and hearing and a +1 Wis mod for racial focus. He is a backup and has not been played. The other Alien is also a backup and I am not sure what he has, but I believe it's some kind of an attack bonus and resistance to damage or extra health.The primary character Alien has four arms and so far the suggested focus bonus is the ability to triple or quad wield weapons for -2 to hit and +4 damage for triple and at Quad your ranged weapons gain the Burst rule (all weapons must be the same type). You still can't dual wield two handed weapons and I am unsure what happens with Quad melee. I am unsure how strong all that actually is at this point in time though and want to hear how you all have handled multi-limbed characters.>What rules do you guys change? >Have you enjoyed the game? >What Alien or Robot character foci have you written? >Make any unique weapons or mods?>Did you enjoy ships and ship combat as written?Also does anyone know if Psychic Training 2's extra psi skill point lets you stop spending one of your 3 basic skill points a level on Psi Powers?
>>93360395>coming from AD&D>everyone said SWN is very "OSR">but it feels very 3.5/Pathfinder to me.weird interpretation, for me it felt like it emulates the absolute worst of ADND supplement books pre-players option
>>93360395>>What Alien or Robot character foci have you written?I removed foci, mostly I make the game more like B/X
>>93360395>What rules do you guys change? Almost all of them. I took one look at the mechanics and decided to stick with d20 Future, lots of 3.5 stuff, and just use the book for ideas and setting framework. It's just like Silent Legions - I can never use Crawford's without major modifications or massive overhauls.>Have you enjoyed the game?Haven't gotten to try it out with the regular group yet since none of them have wanted anything like a space opera game in a while. I will say that it has eased my recent contempt for scifi stuff, so that's something.
>>93361166I mean, I played AD&D 1e a lot and SWN has Feats, a non-THAC0 based attack bonus that increases per level vs AC, 3 kinds of saves, skills lists which require levelling all of which are very 3.5 and even has "per scene" mechanics which make me think of 4e. What makes you think of AD&D reading through it? roll 3d6 in order for stats?>>93364414How did that change the game? Foci feel like they are what define characters for a direction, I think a lot of characters would end up very weak without them.I have heard of people just giving a character all the foci they would earn at level 1 and that being that.>>93364552I am not usually into sci-fi very much myself but it does feel fun and more in line with what I do like in sci-fi, that being space opera. I like the look of Traveller but I am not into star-trek style sci fi so it just doesn't appeal to me at all.
>>93366360>I have heard of people just giving a character all the foci they would earn at level 1 and that being that.I like that. I both like foci as a specific mechanical ability for a character, but I can see them getting out of hand if you have too many. Getting one or two, and leaving it at that I think is a nice balance that cuts bloat.>What makes you think of AD&D reading through it?not him, and only played worlds without number, but what most poppoed out as AD&D to me was the simulationist bent to the book, detailing how to generate places and stuff, as well as the reduced enemy statblock layout.
>>93364552>Almost all of them. I took one look at the mechanics and decided to stick with d20 Future, lots of 3.5 stuff, and just use the book for ideas and setting framework. It's just like Silent Legions - I can never use Crawford's without major modifications or massive overhauls.You might be the only person on Earth that actively likes D20 Future lmao
>>93370293It's worked great for years whenever a group wanted scifi or space fantasy, so the only things I've bothered to shop around for are campaign settings.
>>93360395SWN is one of those nice games that I have not felt the need to homebrew. I do want to try combining Cities and Stars for more of an Expanse or Aliens feel.
Why doesn't starship weapon damage have any scaling? A TL3 tank gun does the same damage as cruiser grade weapons and many fighter grade weapons do less damage than rifles or even pistols. Meanwhile tanks have as much HP as frigates.
>>93371516
Playing a campaign now.Ultimately moving forward in my next OSR style campaign I am going to run Whitehack but modified to include SWN and WWN's skill check system. I enjoy the 2d6 skill checks a lot more than d20 for skill checks, but parts of SWN' designs do irk me. Foci are just not a very cool way to handle player progression IMO, I never cared for feats and that sort of thing. Also my players have gotten a ton of HP by level 4 or 5 so it is tough to put a serious threat in their way when RAW even tough guards have 2 HD. Ship combat stinks and vehicle rules have the same issue as other D&D vehicle implementations. Lastly psychics are insanely busted and I think are the reason I will never start a rules as written SWN game again. Teleportation specifically is incredibly strong and nullifies a huge swath of challenges. Precognition is also very strong, and my telekinetic player is probably the strongest warrior with the telekinetic armor focus or whatever it is called on top of being able to move hundreds of lbs of weight with his mind.The sector generation stuff in SWN is the real meat and potatoes. That section is worth its weight in gold.
>>93366360To be clear, base attack bonus is literally just 1E and 2E and Basic, just without the fifteen extra steps. Are you retarded?
>>93371516They don't have any scaling because small arms do virtually nothing against ships (page 103 side bar). How starship weapons work against people is somewhat up for debate and likely will need to be ruled by the GM though I tend to treat it as save or die.>>93360395I just avoided all of the mess of aliens when GMing by just not having any, or at least none that the players could play as.
>>93377225>HP Bloat IssuesYeah we are level 3 right now and looking at weapon damage tables I think I can definitely see it becoming an issue around level 5. Lethality is going to drop off a cliff for us players but enemies will keep getting basically oneshot.I did see a fix where people only gave out 1HD for players and when you leveled you would get to reroll and add flat bonuses from con and class again. So max HP at 10 would be like 26-46 for a warrior or 6-26 for everyone else?If I was running the game I would just upgrade the hit dice sizes slightly and only give rerolls on level up. I'd probably also allow no real death till negative max HP and keep unconscious at 0. I hate "luck/reflex" as HP in any case.>Psychics are brokenWe haven't had any issues with them yet but I can see teleport being strong. Ours is a metapsi/telepath and a partial with precog and it hasn't really affected the game much yet.>Vehicles and Ship combat isn't greatYeah I'd agree with this. My other vehicle experience is GURPS though and I'm also not a huge fan of that. Honestly I wouldn't even know where to start with a good vehicles ruleset. A lot of my vehicles experience that's any good is more wargame oriented.>>93384578Based on replies it seems most people avoid aliens. I think that's a shame because sci Fi is largely aliens and robots to me. I was hoping at least a few people would have examples of alien traits they'd written so I could get a feel for how ours compared.>>93370782If I was let loose with the system I would honestly do a broad rewrite of a lot. Mostly dumping the d20 though. That doesn't mean I hate the system, far from it. I think it's worth doing a rewrite of sections for. I wouldn't bother giving something like 5e my time like that, for example.
Sell me on Stars Without Number. I've recently been considering running a sci-fi/space opera game in my personal setting (1920s in space, limited to a small corner of our galaxy, Earth is an unknown planet outside of known space, main species in pic; biggest inspirations are Star Trek, Babylon 5, and FarScape), and I've been shopping around for a system to run it in or else develop my own. Right now the competition is between Mongoose Traveller, d20 Future, and Stars Without Number.I have the core rulebook for SWN, but I'd like to hear takes on it. The rulebook just gives me numbers, which isn't really enough to go off of as to whether or not I'd enjoy the system.
>>93385578>Right now the competition is between Mongoose Traveller, d20 Future, and Stars Without Number.If you need to keep things simple, then stick with SWN as it's based off all that old school shit. If you expect to really dig into the system, go with d20 Future mainly so that you've got a ton of compatible stuff to use (D&D 3e and even PF1) with minor adjustments. I've got no idea about Traveller since it always came off as hard scifi - something I avoid like the plague.
>>93384688HP bloat is not a problem unless you go past level 10, you can just give goons Spike Throwers. The real issue is AC, you can get to a point where almost no book NPCs can even touch your character.
>>93385833Since you have not played traveller, its essentially a level above both in terms of system and compatible space content. It can be hardER sci fi, but you can, and most people in my experience do, do a sci fi thats slightly harder then star wars, but still mostly about pulp activity instead of getting into the nitty gritty of mechanics. Abstracting shit out to their essential nature. You not needing to do 3 sub rolls for different aspects of navigation to find a place to land, just one navigation roll.Largest difference is traveller is skill based. though SWN kinda splits the difference between skill based and level based.
>>93371516Heavy weapons do half rolled damage to starships, and massed TL4 non-Heavy gunfire only does 1d4 every 10 minutes or so. >>93377225You can't run off of the templates in the book for too long, they quickly get outscaled by the party. It would be pretty tedious trying to stack enough of the bastards in one combat to actually pose a threat. I can post some templates from my last long-running game if it would help.
>>93385833Avoiding Traveller, then, as while there are some elements of hard sci-fi I like, overall I lean a lot more towards soft sci-fi.The only two general "hard" sci-fi elements I want in my setting are:1) You can't strap a warp drive to a radio wave or other transmission, so all communications, sensors, etc., are limited to lightspeed max unless you're paying someone to hop into a spaceship and serve as a courier for your message.2) Meaningful stealth in space is essentially impossible due to the amount of heat and signals a typical ship gives off.
>>93386483Not sure about 2, but 1 is one of the core setting ideas of Traveller. It also has psionics and playable aliens, and I know some people have made supplements to include magic as well. It's definitely more on the pulp sci-fi of the spectrum.
>>93386483The thing with traveller is that its hard sci-fi-ness often gets overblown cause its easy to get a rise from people by posting some of the 10billion suplement from the 1980s that covers atmosphere reentry protocols or some shit.How crunchy you want it to be is pretty modular by what outside additions you use. If you are just using the base current edition of Mongoose 2e its pretty pulpy and streamlined. its just modular enough that you CAN add more complexities to make it harder and harder sci-fi if you want.on your hard points1. main conciet in default Traveller universe is that information cannot travel faster then a ship. you need to actually travel by ship to get info from one place to another.2. im not sure, but there are definitely supplements for both stealth able space and non stealthable space.
>>93360395I hear that SWN has some good random tables, does anyone have any links or images of tables from it or related games please? And how do you use said tables outside of SWN?
>unified mechanic>no class/level>better gear>cooler Psionics>better space combatalso all these bots asking for a qrd for a free game lol
>>93395957Seconding this please.
>>93360395How does it rate compared to the other games by the same creators, like CWN?
>>93397318CWNSWN andWWNare the same game, just slightly molded to cyberpunk, scifi, and fantasy respectively, and having the respective flavor tables.
>>93384688>Mostly dumping the d20 thoughWhy?If you just want to play Traveller/Cepheus or Mothership - go play Traveller or Mothership
>>93397409Because I can do whatever I want and none of you can stop me. What if I don't want all the other stuff in Traveller. What if I actually just want SWN moved away from a d20 for combat. What if I am allowed to do whatever I want for houserules. What are you going to do about it.
>>93395957I think this is from CWN but Kevin loves tables for everything: dungeons, NPCs, space stations, plots, dungeon dressing, item appearance, it doesn't matter
>>93401990This one (from Scarlet Heroes) is my favorite
How would you translate this GURPS template into a variant human race for SWN?Something like STR+3, DEX-1, CON+1, CHA-1?
>>93399787I have operative watching tabletop games across the globe. You try that cockamamie horse shit, and I'll have a nigger with a machete pop out of a dice bag.
>>93403109If a player is paying a focus for their variant race then I think it's fine to have it be +2 Strength, +2 Constitution and then give them a +2 bonus to carry weight and a -2 to Charisma. Even that feels weak for the cost of a focus though.
>>93403109I'd take the races from WWN or CWN (a bit more powerful)
>>93401990>>93402000These are great! Are there any sites you know of where I can look for more tables?
>>93409770I recommend checking out the free versions of CWN, WWN, and SWN. They have most of the tables. The books Red Tide and Scarlet Heroes have a lot of flavor for kitchen sink asian fantasy, but sadly there's no free versions of those available.
>>93409883Are the free versions missing any particularly good tables?
>>93411983I believe the SWNR free version is missing: Transhuman polities on pages 263-264Society origins on pages 293-299WWN free edition is missing:Iterum tools on pages 371-375Additional GM tools on pages 376-391 (>>93401990 is an example)
are the full versions of SWN, WWN, and CWN available on the OSR trove?
>>93415938Thanks, I don't suppose that you have them in a format that can be posted here?>>93397393What Godbound? I hear that it could really use a second edition.
>>93377225>>93384688>HP Bloat IssuesDon't forget Shock Damage is a thing. The best way to think about Hit Points isn't as "wounds" or "meat points". It's representative of an experienced character being able to dodge, parry, or take grazing hits. It's a combination of stamina, luck, and toughness. Shock Damage slowly ticks away at your HP every round which eventually brings down even the toughest PC.
>>93385578It's honestly damn simple to run and play. That's the biggest selling point. It's simple, there's enough variety in PC builds that everyone has some fun and feels useful, and the various (multitude) tables and generators which make up the last half of the rulebook just gives the GM a lot to work with when creating a setting.It's more grand in nature than say d20 Future or Traveler, which better emulate Firefly, The Expanse, and other grittier seat-of-your-pants SciFi. SWN is much more suitable (without the need for any houserules) of pulling off a Star Trek or a FarScape.
>>93419362shock is really a mechanic that makes mooks go down fast, PCs quite easily achieve ACs at level 1 to ignore anything but the giant maul
>>93396199Not OP, but I have never heard of picrel before.
>>93405776>>93407193Thanks, I took the WWN dwarf and swapped the dsrkvision/craft skill for +1 strength.
>>93360395You have to make some homebrew to make it better, imo
>>93421540someone on the share thread just mentioned that it was PWYW on DriveThru
