>What is Exalted?An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.htmlIt’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck>Resources for Third Edition>3E Core and Splatshttps://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e>Errata for Third Editionhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit>Other Ex3 Resourceshttps://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu>Resources for Older Editionshttps://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ>Current Quixalted Extended QE Version (Fanmade Supplement)https://files.catbox.moe/rjgmo5.pdf>Optional Quixalted Exaltshttps://www.mediafire.com/file/jg86yrewnhx2ov3/QE_Reject3eExaltHomebrew.pdf/file>4thchan Edition (4.2E)https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XqjkwQIR38ov7uZVSZGpcjI0QCPIiFaQkVosZVlhGH8/>Exalted Demake/Black Vault (Now with updates):https://pastebin.com/Tt1PjuYthttps://pastebin.com/qHRW9N51>collection of Exalted Hackshttps://pastebin.com/gtZnycJs>stuff that might be interestinghttps://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-exalted-thread-with-no-original-ideas.317216/Last thread: >>93297170TQ: Have you ever created a character or storyline centered around food? If you haven't, what would you like to include in a game like that?
Did Sandact ever post the beta of his Umbrals?
>>93366618I don't think so but i haven't been looking for that.>>93366609>TQI had this idea of a game building up to the Usurpation banquet as they gather the right offerings/ingredients to the Unconquered Sun.Depending on how the ceremony goes they might be able to appease their God and avoid the worse. Then again this might just work as a God of War prelude where they get to use all the cool shit before being depowered/killed.
hey that art is nice, is it just some random piece or is tied to the setting in some way?
>>93366718I don't know about the sea bat, I think it was a subnautica fan creature but I don't remember enough to be sure.
>>93366700>Calibration banquet.Took me a while to notice that it may have been based on the red wedding.
>>93366609Who is the most exalted gay?
>>93367820It's white wolf. Everyone is gay.
>>93367820impossible to discern due to high background levels of homosexuality in creation
>>93366609Cute monkey.
Why is the Solar effect to summon a bunch of beasts so weak?
>>93369138I can only assume you're talking about Enemy of Nature, and it's not that bad. It's a curse you can put on someone from any range and it doesn't even need an arcane link, making it such a low investment method of fucking on someone that it's hard to complain in the first place. Beyond that, a permanent targeted -1 to -3 all action external penalty is easily overlooked, and isn't actually bad as it's base effect, even for a Solar Circle Sorcerer. Big animals coming after them and the travel speed reduction aren't really that huge an issue in comparison, more of a nuisance than anything really if they're serious opponents.That said, it's one of the 'win condition' type effects for Solars in the Time of Tumult, because it can target social groups up to Magnitude 9 (2500-5000/Legion-sized), and declaring the Wyld Hunt as the targets to be fucked on gives you and all the other Solars pretty much free reign to take the Threshold at minimum. The mixture of effects targets exactly the things the Immaculates need to do their thing: general competence, fast response times, and a lack of anything willing to make itself an obstacle between them and Anathema for fear of being set upon by a shikari killsquad.
>>93369298nah I mean the Survival Charm, not the Solar sorcery spell.
>>93369342Probably because it's right on the outer limit of what might be within Solar themes, then. Disney princess summoning all the animals of the forest isn't actually very Solar-ish.
>>93367820In 1e? Ophilis.In 2e? Tammuz, followed by Harmonious Jade and the disciple past lives.>>93367828>>93367980Not really, solars are overwhelmingly straight in the caste books.
>>93369489NTA but how do you figure that? They have the literally the most reason to be able to Disney princess summon all of the forest. It branches from their core themes of rulership.
>>93370198>branches from their core themeSolars aren't really supposed to branch conceptually, anon. You don't get them performing mass murder, or punching people so hard they turn into ducks, or ruling over storms or animals. The Solar thing is straightforward interpretation of their abilities to absurd scales, which could mean ruling over the forest in a similar way to a ranger but scaled up, and yet doesn't imply telepathy to woodland creatures.It's also worth noting that if you and your Storyteller think something is within Solar themes, the developers aren't obligated to provide a canon option - that's what custom charms are for.
>>93370539>Solars aren't really supposed to branch conceptually, anon. You don't get them performing mass murderAnon...
>>93370539>and yet doesn't imply telepathy to woodland creatures.In 1e, Jalith had a telepathic link to one of her familiars.
>>93370539>The Solar thing is straightforward interpretation of their abilities to absurd scales, which could mean ruling over the forest in a similar way to a ranger but scaled up, and yet doesn't imply telepathy to woodland creatures."I'm a beastmaster, so I can call all the beasts to the forest using a whistle or some shit and they're highly effective" is about as Solar as it gets. Also, Solars already get telepathy to some of their familiars and plenty of fucking charmtrees have non straight forward branching powers like Lore, Occult and Presence.
>>93370628>>93370712Everybody gets telepathy with their familiars, numbnuts.>>93370600It's a play on words, anon. They don't branch Performance into mass murder with the rationale that you 'perform' mass murders. They could play music so bombastic, heartfelt, or grating that it blows out your eardrums, makes your heart stop, whatever, but it's not because somebody decided the Solar charmset was based on puns.
>>93370774why do you assume it has to be telepathy rather than a sort of dog whistle that can only be heard on certain frequencies? or like a big magic beacon? not that them telepathically summoning them is even bad to begin with.
>>93370774>It's a play on words, anon. They don't branch Performance into mass murder with the rationale that you 'perform' mass murders. There's a charm in Performance for 3 editions running that is about shouting people apart. Please read the books before you make sweeping generalizations, noreader-kun.
What would be an appropriate rating for an ''essence battery''?
>>93366609>conquering a maiden's heart through laxatives
>>93370628I can't tell if she has her ass exposed or not.
>>93371387Soulfire Crystals are already this. Alchemicals 2e also has some Essence batteries...or was it 2e? I would expend the effort to go and find it, but I'm feeling lazy today and would like you to do it for me anon.
>>93371387>>93371812>Alchemicals 2e also has some Essence batteries...or was it 2e?If you're referring to their equivalent of hearthstones, yes. Alchemicals had artifacts that'd act as a hearthstone of their rating for one season before losing power. Patropoli can just hand them outAs for the Soulfire Crystals, pic related, there's like three different types that affects their durability, how easy it is to pull essence out, and what that essence can be used for, you can find them on page 215 of 2E's Abyssals
>>93371566It seems to be skin-tight pants, contrary of Lyta's battle leotard.
>>93366609I'll be running a 1e dragon blood game for my group soon. What/where are the weak points that I should be aware of to run a solid game for them? I'll be using>1e core>DB>caste and aspect books (for artifacts and hearthstones)
I posted about how I liked the Scavenger Sons portrayal of the Fair Folk more than the other books, and I think its mostly because that appendix focuses entirely on what they do in Creation; each example Fair Folk in it has a clear function and role they perform in a specific part of Creation, and they're not all mindless rape monsters/vampires with the serial numbers filed off like 1e Fair Folk makes them out to be. The Wyld, by contrast, is so ill-defined by nature that I am baffled by the decision to triple down on interacting with it and not just going with the assumption that a Fair Folk is always going to primarily focused on Creation where things actually matter. The storytelling section constantly says to play up how raksha are constantly bored and annoyed by Creation and I'm scratching my head at the bad advice of telling players (ostensibly this isn't just an antagonist book, right?) to disengage with the setting and play someone who has a passive disdain for anything that goes on in the place people will actually want to play in. Graceful Wicked Masques makes it all worse by introducing the stupid "raksha are living stories" shit, which results in everything becoming so insufferably meta around them.
>>93372777>The storytelling section constantly says to play up how raksha are constantly bored and annoyed by Creation and I'm scratching my head at the bad advice of telling players (ostensibly this isn't just an antagonist book, right?) to disengage with the setting and play someone who has a passive disdain for anything that goes on in the place people will actually want to play in.Counter pointThat could be read as telling them raksha characters should want to make Creation more interesting in the Chinese sense
>>93372777why is it when I did a long effort post contesting your points last thread you just waited until next thread to make a slightly tweaked repost of what you said last thread. there's basically no point discussing things if you aren't familiar with either of the books compared to your warped perceptions of them that are likely influenced by Forumite exegesis.
>>93373021Sorry your post was very boring
True Fae from Changeling the Lost > Raksha from Exalted, any edition.
>>93372915You'd think but about all the advice given is "yeah the place that has the most usable material is actually bad and you will not have any fun here, go into the Wyld and try to keep your ST's gun out of his mouth so you can figure out who wins this bout of shaping combat"
>>93373021I think that guy is legitimately banned from the Discord or something and just wants to vent here. The lil bro actually needs to make up shit rather than just criticize the actual bad parts of that book. >>93373113
>>93373129Sorry I don't understand, what's a Discord and what am I saying that's objectionable?
>>93373189Pretending to not know what Discord is in 2024 isn't really believable.
Exalted players, why are you so horny?
>>93373227I'm sorry, I don't understand?Anyway I think the other thing is that 1e Fair Folk really neglects the positive aspects of the Wyld. Its all so doom and gloom, which is odd considering that they're already stepping on the Abyssals' toes by leaning too heavily into vampire tropes.>>93373247The closest I can get to being horny is having high Appearance characters with Performance (with a dance focus). Any more and my friends will start clowning on me.
>>93373247I'm sure we have our reasons
>>93373311What are the positive aspects of the Wyld? It's like the Warp where reality breaks down and if you survive all the bullshittery and raksha you mutate into a gibbering mutant. You could use the Wyld to avoid fate manipulation or get some weird artifacts but there's probably valid equivalents for both inside Creation.
What's the distinction between charms, thaumaturgy, and sorcery?I'm currently making a Twilight who was an amateur thaumaturge pre-exaltation, but I don't really have a good idea of how thaumaturgy works nor what it does.
>>93366609>TQProbably would include a lot of fetch quests based around getting some super rare ingredients.It's also interesting to think about which abilities are used in cooking. Craft is dead obvious.Melee, but only for stunts for chopping ingredients.Athletics for doing things like pancake flips. Medicine for detecting ingredients or how well cooked something is. Bureaucracy is apparently used for detecting item quality, but I'm not really sure how this applies to food. Stealth and Larceny to slip poisons/sleep potion into the food
>>93373311>Anyway I think the other thing is that 1e Fair Folk really neglects the positive aspects of the Wyld./exg/ ain't beating the noread allegations
>>93373247Some 1e pics are so fetishistic, to the point you can barely tell what kind fetish it was supposed to be depicting.
>>93373393Its also a place of extreme beauty, living dreams, and impossible things that cannot arise naturally in Creation. I just can't really see it as malevolent or wholly bad, although I do agree that its best not to live there.Also, I don't get why the Fair Folk were made into the other guys trying to end Creation. Seems redundant if the majority of the beings known for being absurdly special little snowflakes are on board with the "kill everything in Creation" plan. I think the Ink Monkeys tried to rectify that by adding more factions than just Balorians, but that was at the end of 2e and I don't think 3e is gonna focus much on the Wyld until they get done with all those splats (in 2050).
>>93373510Seems redundant* with Abyssals
>>93373416>What's the distinction between charms, thaumaturgy, and sorcery?Without getting too deep into the metaphysical weeds.....>Charms - Magic innate to the nature of a being's essence and it's capabilities, a Solar can craft something superhumanly well because he can craft well and it's the nature of Solars to do things at superhuman levels. A DB can toss around elemental bolts because their nature is that element, etc. >Thaumaturgy - Magical physics basically, takes advantage of the world's innate supernatural physical laws to do a thing, tends to not be as powerful as charms or sorcery, things like carving anti-ghost or demon wards, preforming exorcisms, mortal astrology, reading entrails, etc. are thaumaturgy. Notably doesn't need essence manipulation to do, just applied knowledge (though the why it works is often a mystery to mortals, just that it does)>Sorcery - Manipulation of essence by one's will alone and using that to affect reality, more mentally and spiritually taxing than charm use, and spells tend to only do one specific thing, but they tend to be a powerful thing
>>93373507Wow, whoever drew this must have an a SERIOUS adult woman fetish. Crazy.
>>93373510>I think the Ink Monkeys tried to rectify that by adding more factions than just BaloriansInk Monkeys was adding in factions that already existed in that original book, thoughever. Balorians are just 1 faction out of many. I think a lot of your issues with Fair Folk would be rectified by reading the material as other anons suggest.
>>93373658Nah they weren't in the book
>>93373649I meant stuff like this.
>>93371387The three kind of Essence Batteries were already mentioned, but you could also look at Skin-Mount Amulets as they apply to non-mortals, from Aspect Book: Earth. They expand your mote pool.>>93372220Make people choose if they want to attempt to parry or dodge in the initial response to an attack declaration and don't let them try to do both, ignore the ping damage rule from Player's Guide, be cautious about NPC soak going too high because some creatures are published with it way higher than it needs to be (30s-50s is overboard), and be aware that there are reasons for combos despite people often often not liking them, and that a rule like 1+Essence known combos at a time with 1+Essence charms in them which can be retrained between stories would likely do well - as Dragonblood you'll have that problem less because of the free-use reflexive charms, though.That's general 1e Exalted stuff more than it is specialised Dragonblood stuff though. For Dragonblood... mostly I'd say to make sure they know their options to retreat/pull out are there and available, and spend time getting information on everything across to them, rather than making it straightforward to go gung-ho into everything.
>>93373416>CharmsFast and furious. Powerful and immediately effective. Charms never lose out in speed to anything, and they're the only one of these three which can be easily stacked, so they rarely lose out in power. One charm might not look as good as one spell, but three charms used at once are usually better in every way.>ThaumaturgySlow and middling, but it's cheap to get a broad array of effects. In 3e, it's completely gutted and is both useless and doesn't provide any kind of array of effects, being solely limited to single tricks. If you are a Twilight in 3e with thaumaturgy in your backstory, I would recommend taking First Circle Sorcery (which makes you a thaumaturge as well) and then Gloaming Eye Understanding for cheap rituals rather than buying into it with merits. In 1e/2e, you buy down specific paths of thaumaturgy with complementary effects. I'd recommend the Art of Warding, or Warding and Exorcism, from Oadenol's Codex in 2e/Player's Guide in 1e. Warding can stay relevant for your entire career. >SorcerySlow but powerful. It's got the widest array of effects in the game, and those effects are generally really powerful in scope and strength, but it takes anywhere between three to five times as long to use a spell as to do anything else. This leaves it mostly around for it's powerful utility out-of-combat options, and because there are some ways to shortcut it's slow time in combat with preparation, mostly through artifacts and hearthstones like sorcery-capturing cord and the stone of mastery.As a Twilight, if you want to do magic, I'd recommend sorcery over thaumaturgy every time. It's the best way to invest. If you're in chargen and know you want to go into sorcery, I'd strongly recommend considering at least a basic 3-dot sorcery-capturing cord, since it moves sorcery straight from useless into relevancy. If you want a powerful character and aren't too attached to the specific image of a powerful magic-user wielding occult power, Charms.
Does anyone have copies of Tales of the Mastah and Agents of Yu Shan?
I heard Sandact's "Shantytown of the Awesome" homebrew manse system got updated. Anyone know what's changed?
I like the pseudo Indian shit they had going on with the fae, and always wanted to play an Unshaped. Those guys are actual mini Primordials
>>93376200>always wanted to play an UnshapedWhat would an Unshaped game even look like? Do you focus on the weird shit you get up to with other unshaped raksha, or would there be some attempt to see how much you can get done darting in and out of Creation before you run out of motes?How fast can the unshaped go, for that matter? What're the cheeky ways to close in you might be able to get through if you planned things out right? You'd think distance wouldn't matter, but when you're losing motes per second...
>>93375466Checked, thanks for the advice anon.
How horny are your games?
>>93378242Not very. Sexual stuff is strictly fade to black.
>>93378306This.Save the world then you get to fuck the prom queen
>>93378242All of the groups I play with have their origin on f-list or from fetish threads here on /tg/The games are about 40-60% horny depending on the group's mood
>>93378363I hope that you had a good time.
>>93378242Not at all. The entire table knows you can't fuck anyone. Women have no power over us.
>>93378707It's been pretty fun, yeah, currently in two groups, both been going on for several years and a couple of games now
>>93378242We don't really ERP at our table, but there's a lot of things that are only included because it makes my players big in the pants.
2e question, though this applies to any edition now that I'm thinking about it, but is there any equipment you'd say could give bonuses to Wyld-Shaping Technique?
>>93378242At the table? Almost never outside some fanservice and fade to black.But on forums or discords were there's some anonymity we are very horny and aren't hesitant to erp. We just avoid too hardcore fetishes.
>>93379810>We just avoid too hardcore fetishes.Like handholding ???
A big problem with Exalted and its progressive nature is how that shit derails games, really really fast. You think a bunch of woke people are going to walk through a town with slaves while playing a god-king and not try to fix that? Or all the other shitty things?It's fucking impossible to run a game like that, as opposed to say DnD, where you can just go into a dungeon and kill shit.
>>93381291It’s simple just don’t be progressive. Play an older edition and ignore even the iota of liberalism present in that.
>>93381437Not really the point. Also it's 2024. Also? The reverse is just as bad. You get shitty games talking about status quos and making every cool action come with like, a shit ton of people dying because "lmao". A mechanical way to cause vast societal changes would also be nice but the social system is shit and the fandone is blinded by "Anything social is mind control".This game line is just so fucking flawed.
>>93378332>>93378363>>93378242seems like Exalted in general wouldn't be good for sexual/horny elements because there's too much emphasis on powerful wahmens. in DnD you can have your slutty female rogue suck the store owner's cock for a discount or whatever. but in Exalted, your fem Exalted is a literal goddamn demigod and the system and setting is designed around playing that up rather than downplaying it as per most fantasy RPGs.super-special and powerful guys can always get laid with ordinary chicks. but who are these super-special and powerful fem Exalts supposed to fuck if there's nobody above them or even on their level? their only options are literal gods or other exalts, but male exalts are already going to be surrounded by a harem of swooning women if they want it. I guess it's fine if they wanna lezz out and have their own harem of hot girls or lezz out with each other. beyond that I don't know how the sexy is supposed to ever happen.it's not ideal for male exalts either. a male DND pc who is a high level fighter can do the conan thing and have some princess draped over him but conan was still a human being. for a male exalt PC, how do you have the thrill of conquest when the girls you're conquering are basically insects compared to you? having fun with your girlfriend/harem/whatever is almost like masturbation at that point. and what's the point of a fantasy game involving sex if what you're fantasizing about amounts to just masturbation?for those who are more expert on the fluff than me, does the game ever address the elephant in the room about this kind of thing?
>>93381291>>93381437>>93381483>>93381532Wow, running out of things to try and troll /exg/ already?
>>93381291Most of the time, you are incentived to free slaves.>>93381532>but in Exalted, your fem Exalted is a literal goddamn demigod and the system and setting is designed around playing that up rather than downplaying it as per most fantasy RPGs.Most of the time the Exalted are portrayed as slightly more leveled up adventurers, and the term exalted was really banalized in 3e.
>>93381532There’s no elephant in the room, you’re just weird.>but you’re having sex with an inferior!That’s true for 99% of all sex anyway.
>>93381532and before anyone accuses me of being a nogame I encountered this problem first fucking hand. I played in a game that lasted more than a year with an eclipse caste from Chiaroscuro (I think, this was like 10 years ago) who was supposed to be like this sexy femme fatale. the game took place in Halta but also visited heaven and other areas once or twice, with lots of focus on the conflict between Halta and the Linowans + House Peleps. it felt like very quickly my eclipse caste became a glorified secretary, spending any focus time in sessions writing letters and organizing shit. since it was taking place somewhere with few exalts everything was just, like, instant admiration and obedience. this might be a gm problem because at one point when it looked like the bull of the north was going to invade I was getting excited because maybe my character concept will finally mean something, but then, NOPE, he gets wiped out and supplanted by the super-special and powerful "Invincible Sword Princess" (apparently this was a meme, I dunno if anyone else has ever heard of her) who was, you guessed it, a lesbian. despite the fact that she was also nominally an enemy of the player characters due to wanting to conquer everything and everybody indiscriminately it felt very mary sue-ish. ...it's been like eight years and thinking back on it I am starting to think more and more that this was a 'feminist GM' problem that I might be going too far in blaming the system and setting for.
>>93381639>the term exalted was really banalized in 3eI ain't reading that woke shit, lol
>>93381673>Can't capitalize or punctuate correctlyTroll, or ESL folks, you decide
>>93381673it's only been like 45 seconds but I'm already regretting posting this
>>93381590Nah, what I said what actually a legitimate complaint. Pretend all you want that you played an Exalted game that stayed on rails. Go ahead and lie. I dare you.Also the "Social is just mind control" is a huge issue for Exalted. Ruins any of the romance and fun.
>>93381639>Most of the time, you are incentived to free slaves.Yeah, I'm like, 90% sure both 1e and 2e has bits that flat out says "Exalted's setting may contain things, such as slavery, that would offend modern sensibilities, and the players may feel the need to have their characters change things. That's a good example of a Motivation worthy of an Exalt, feel free to let them make a character to do that if they want"
>>93381710>Also the "Social is just mind control" is a huge issue for Exalted. Ruins any of the romance and fun.White Wolf loving somebody is the exception to the rule, and 3e really tried to walk back from this.
>>93381751Mainly because of the character motivations, "free slaves" is always treated as a possible benevolent PC option.See Pakpao plot hooks.
>>93381777Yeah, so I don't get what he's complaining about when your PCs forcing modern sensibilities upon the world have been both an allowed, and encouraged one, since day 1
>>93381796Yes.>and encouraged one, since day 1Depends on the book, 1e Lunars was a bit like "dancing with wolves".
>>93381291Most of the time when I've run Exalted my players, a fairly progressive bunch, have done horrible shit that they've justified in-character but recognized as horrible shit out of character. I've seen two business-oriented PCs making a nice profit out of slave trade, an Immaculate torching villages of infidels, stuff like that. Some people, also known as 'any half-decent roleplayer', can separate their characters' beliefs from their own. Progressive nature of the game itself mostly just boils down to representation and not whitewashing stuff like imperialism and colonialism and such, there's not really much pressure on the game's part for players to act in a certain way - except, of course, in the form of the Great Curse.
>>93381671>sex with women is technically rape.>sex with men or animals is sex with an equal.Change my mind.
>>93382252T. Practitioner of the farjad faith.
>>93381796It's not that complicated man. Run your story. You go to X city. It has slaves. Are you gonna put your story on hold to free them, or are you just gonna ignore it and "tackle it later?" Once you go "You can't free the slaves right now, that's distracting to the main plot. Do it later." the game is fucked. This goes with all modern sensibility stuff really. If you start putting in too many points to tackle you don't have a game anymore, just a mess. This COULD be solved with mass social powers but the game really digs deep into violence being the simplest and mechanically most sound way to handle things.
>>93382023This is another issue with Exalted too. Lots of fucking creepers. I've been in games where it feels like the other players are jerking off to their character concept. Also as with any power fantasy you get "This person does all the shit while the other players watch".This is true for all pnp games but holy fuck is exalted bad with it.
>>93382809>Also as with any power fantasy you get "This person does all the shit while the other players watch".This is because certain factors incentive hype specialists.
I started out with 2e years ago, but the downloads in these threads have allowed me to peruse 1e books, and I'm surprised at how often the 2e lore comes off as the slightly amateurish, first draft version as opposed to the more fleshed out and detailed 1e lore.
>>93382802Yeah, either a troll or some poor bastard who's only ever seen TTRPGs on railroad tracks
>>93382837Too many fanboys turned writers, you can notice a more "juvenile" voice.
>>93382846Nah, you're just a dumb cunt who needs to be raped. Hard. Over and over. Nothing I said is that complex and you being too stupid to understand it is honestly funny.
>>93382802NTA, but if my players want to free slaves, they can free slaves and deal with the consequences. If they want to buy some slaves or get in on slave trade or just ignore the slaves, all of these courses of action being in my experience at least as likely as players wanting to free the slaves, they can do that, too. Tell me about your games that have been derailed by "modern sensibility stuff", though.>>933828371E lore is often better presented, but this is probably the first time I've seen anyone call it more detailed than 2E lore.
>>93382878Again, then whatever what you were doing is now derailed by a free a slaves plot. Or you're expecting your "heroic god kings" to go through a city with slavery and not do anything about. Goes for a lot of the dumb shit in Exalted, slavery is just the big one.This is not an issue for something like, say, Dnd, and Exalted doesn't handle it well. Mass social rules are just crap and treated as flat out mind control way, way, way too much.Also? Exalted draws in the worst of the edge lords. Power fantasy is already bad with that, Exalted is just worst.
>>93382893>Or you're expecting your "heroic god kings" to go through a city with slavery and not do anything aboutOh they’ll do something about it. They’ll take ten.
>>93382908Oh, a Getimian player?!
>>93382893>Again, then whatever what you were doing is now derailed by a free a slaves plot.So? Plot's what PCs do and how the rest of the world reacts to the things they do. If players want to free slaves, then that's now a part of the plot. It doesn't derail anything because things aren't on the rail to begin with. Of course, as I said, these heroic god kings well might just not do anything about slavery, or they might be on the market for slaves themselves. That, too, is fine. But really, do tell about your games that have been derailed by things like this.
>>93382893I feel like this is why I get confused by people playing Solars and Lunars as wandering heroes when they're the exact kind of person who would get very bogged down by a nation's problems. I tend to just pick one city-state and stick with it for a while if running a game with them.
>>93382932>Something pops up that isn't part of the main plot>not distracting to the main plot.My issue isn't that you "can't" free them. My issue is that they are a part of the settings, distracting as shit, and mass social rules are very ill equipped at handling it. And even if you do you have edge lords crying mind control. You can have the game take place in an area without slaves, but again, same issue. You are god kings. There is a very obvious problem.This wouldn't even be an issue if the game had rules to handle shit like this but social stuff in Exalted is crap. It's BUILT for you to kill people instead of using social options - because the 'social options' are always reduced to 'lmao mind control'. Are you so pretty that people do what you want because of how pretty you are? lol it's not because of how pretty you are, its magic mind control.I don't know how you idiots can't tell that this is a serious issue with the entire fucking game line. I've been in a shit ton of exalted games and things ALWAYS gets derailed. And not in a fun way.
>>93382936Of the 1e samples, the ones who stay in the confines of a single city are the exception.Out of head, only Huyla and Havesh stayed in a single city, and the latter had to move on for a bit.
>>93382936Making the game more like DnD does help, sure, but it's also not what people expect from Exalted I feel like. I just think it needs a system to do mass social changes in the background without derailing the main story you're trying to tell. Doesn't seem like it's all that much to ask for.Also the social system in place now lacks so much weight. The power of it shifts so much table to table that it's fucking silly.
>>93382981wow the fiction that you're supposed to read differed from a campaign??? when has this ever happened before
>>93383006They are "already made characters" and samples of what the returning exalted are doing.
>>93382979What is this "main plot" bullshit, anon? I just told you what the plot is: it's what players do and how the world reacts to it. Also, you seem to be weirdly stuck on the idea of players always wanting to free slaves, which is not a given. As I said earlier, I've seen slave owner and even slave trader PCs. Sometimes players want to change Creation for the better, sometimes they want to get into the Age of Sorrows mindset and figure out how someone with different values and morality would use the power of Exaltation. Both are fine ways to play Exalted. As for social rules, your complaints there seem pretty weird, too. Exalted's social rules are clunky, to be sure, but they're there in a more complete and fleshed out form than what most games have.
>>93383002>derailing the main story you're trying to tell. This is a really weird way to approach RPGs, and it's a particularly unsuitable way to run Exalted.
>>93383019I think it is because of how easy it was in 2e to take over an organization.
>>93382981>the latter had to move on for a bitHonestly am I the only one who found it weird that most of the circles are really diverse? And not in the woke way. I mean like they always say that creation is huge - and yet I can form a circle in say the Marukhani lands and have an exalt from every corner of creation. Like it wouldn't be weird to have a Dawn from Ascencion, a bitter Cynis Twilight sorcerer, an Eclipse from Wavecrest, a Zenith from Gem, and a Nexus Night. I think the only Solar Circle that avoids this is Bull's circle. I think all of them are from the North.
>>93383036Yeah, I think that's weird, too.
>>93383019I don't really care if you use exalted as a sandbox or have nothing to say with the game.>>93383025You must be fucking retarded.I've seen so many interesting game ideas and plots and stories - but the amount of games that get derailed by the shit I mentioned is honestly insane. Exalted is just... really flawed.
>>93383036>Honestly am I the only one who found it weird that most of the circles are really diverse?Yes, the signature circle was mobile as fuck.I think Dace moved from near Lookshy to Whitewall.Harmonious Jade traveled from paragon, to gem and nexus.
>>93383050Not being a good fit for on-the-rails campaigns isn't a flaw. Keeping railroading GMs put might even be considered a strength. As for not having anything to say with the game, I'll say what I have to say through the things ST cintrols - not player actions, but the rest of the world's reactions to player actions.
>>93383060The new one isn't much different. Prince Diamond is from Chiaroscuro and Volfer is (I think) from somewhere West.
>>93383002>the main story you're trying to tell.Exalted, like most TTRPGs require the input from other people anon, it's not your story, it's the group's
>>93383065Holy shit please stop. A plot is not a complicated idea and I'm not going to argue with your cunt ass about it. You're wrong, fuck off, get raped. Anyways, the ease at which you can get derailed in Exalted and how poorly the system handles background social situations (or even direct ones) is a big issue. It's a fun game line but damn. These are obvious issues in need of fixing. You also have a ton of overly semantic retards like the Anon quoted above in the fandom. Which is also an issue - finding a group that isn't already just your friends is a pain in the ass. It's hard for a whole group to 'be on the same page' and the game doesn't really do anything to help with that.
>>93383098Please kill yourself. Also, yes, table top rpg's are a shared story telling experience. The funny thing is you're so fucking stupid you don't even know what that means.
Strange how aggressive this anon is.
>>93383121As I said, trollMaybe he's upset the last thread managed to last the week?
>>93383140It is a weird one.Saying that a poster needs to be raped is a first.
>>93379668Hand of the Great Maker from Lords of Creation gives you a solid point to look at. It's very powerful for a three dot artifact, even if it is very specialized. Beyond that it's applicable effects that are more general, like the Savant's Icy Eye from Aspect Book Air or Jewel of the Rabbit's Sword from Caste Book Zenith.
>>93383438I was aware of those for the most part, but I was asking less about artifacts and more about 'mundane' equipment bonuses, like how you could get a bonus to forging a sword from a really high quality (but still non-artifact) smith's hammer.Something like Savant's Icy Eye might fit the bill, but I'm still curious if there might be any sort of non-artifact equipment that could enhance it. My instinct says "Artifacts or nothing", but I'm not too creative when it comes to thinking up something like this and am curious if anyone else has ideas otherwise
>>93383162You people are so fucking autistic it hurts. holy shit.
>>93382979>You are god kings.Nope, you're just wuxia guys.
>>93383485>any sort of non-artifact equipment that could enhance itYou can find or make fine or exceptional equipment to boost essentially any roll in 2e/3e, for +1 die. You might find some pretty gem on a king's crown that refracts possibilities for an exceptional equipment bonus towards Wyld Shaping Technique, for example.Could such a thing exist? Yes, possibly. Does such a thing still exist? Probably not, unless it's naturally formed or utterly imperishable. Mundane objects usually break down over time and it's been a good millenia and a half since the First Age and the last time anybody was Wyld Shaping - and even beyond that, if they stored Wyld Shaping gear anywhere, it'd be near the Wyld they need to shape, right? And the Wyld has engulfed more than 9/10ths of Creation from the outside in, so anything like that would be swallowed eight hundred years ago.Beyond fine/exceptional/perfect equipment, alchemical potives can give temporary buffs to relevant dicerolls, and it's possible that even more specialised recipes with effects that directly modify the charm's effectiveness could exist, or be created. I imagine specialised recipes are essentially all lost, whether to Dragonblood bookburning, simple time, or Wyld incursion. You could also use the Reactive Planning astrological procedure to give yourself a -1 difficulty to the roll, and there are likely other similarly broadly-effective small buffs you can pick up elsewhere.
>>93383541Wuxia guys can be god-kings too. The Buddha and Son Wukong are wuxia guys.
>>93383636that's not wuxia you boob
>>93383613That... is a good point, like incense or a drug to help someone get into the mental state to better shape the Wyld? ...Actually, thinking about it, I think drugs do help with wyld questing, so that does make senseAnd yeah, a gem or a lens that lets you see other possibilities might be a good 'mundane' bit of equipment tooThanks
>>93383112>A plot is not a complicated ideaYes, the issue here isn't that anyone has a hard time understanding you. It's just that TTRPGs generally don't have and shouldn't have a predetermined plot. There needs to be some kind of a scenario to get things started, but plot is mutable and determined by actions taken at the table. It's not a matter of telling a story you already have in mind, it's a matter of creating a story through the interactions of the player characters and the rest of the world as run by the GM. This is especially the case for games like Exalted, where player characters are powerful enough that keeping them on the rails is difficult. Therefore, if players decide to free some slaves, it doesn't derail the plot, it just shifts the direction the plot is going. Also, as you've been told multiple times, players feeling the need to solve problems like slavery isn't a universal problem.>>93383140Fair enough, it's most likely a troll. It's not the aggression that seems most troll-ish to me, but the way anon ignores most of the things said in the posts he replies to, and in particular ignores repeated requests to actually tell about these campaigns of his that have been derailed, and just replies with enough detail to keep the argument going. On that note, I guess I will try to stop falling for bait for the rest of the thread.
>>93384654>Therefore, if players decide to free some slaves, it doesn't derail the plot, it just shifts the direction the plot is goingThis is a well meaning philosophy to have when starting out - because the urge to railroad is really strong - but in my experience, just telling the players you're not interested in that plot is going to save everyone a lot of heart issues. Saying "no" is something that should be done with extreme restraint, which is why TTRPG rpg communities encourage "no, but" or "yes, and" first and foremost, but it has its use.
>>93384919That's true if I'm not interested in that plot, but generally speaking I'd be fine with rolling with it if players wanted to free slaves. Also the way player characters feel about the obviously fucked up shit in Creation, whether they just accept all that as a natural part of life or whether they intend to do something like that, seems like the kind of discussion the group should have before the game starts.
>>93383502>Says that a poster is a huge cunt that needs to be repeatedly raped.>"you are the autist!!"Malfeas?! Is that you?!
>>93385596Come on anon, this is far too calm to be Malfeas
>>93382979kys railroading retard
>>93383036Well, because Creation is a fuckhuge place, it's likely you're going to be the only Exalt in the local region unless you exalted in a big city like Nexus (which is literally one Solar away from getting a perfect circle btw).So the exalted groups minus DBloods would only form if the exalted traveled around a lot, because otherwise they wouldn't know each other.
>>93386347Traveling around is fine, but traveling through half the world before finding other Exalts to ally with is pretty weird. Creation's fuckhuge, but there are still bound to be dozens of Solars in a given Direction.
Ironic how the devs attempt of making the world bigger, actually made it feel small.
>>93387125Is it? What edition are you talking about? Are you referring to the discussion about signature Circle, which, you know, applies to every edition? Don't make statements too vague to meaningfully contribute to discussion, anon. Use more words to explain what you mean.
>>93387125I feel like the whole "we mention this one thing and don't expand on it to make the world seem bigger and more mythological" trope that is really common in 3e writing is a classic example of this but I cannot for the life of me articulate why I feel this way.
>>93387942I don't think 3E doing that makes the world seem smaller. I mean, it's annoying, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't make the world seem smaller. I think 3E does a pretty decent job at making the world seem bigger, actually, though those vague hints at lore offered in artifact writeups and such don't really contribute to it. Locations are written in a way where regional stuff seems more important and other locations thousands of miles away less important, though. Those short descriptions of neighbors the fully detailed locations have is also pretty nice and contributes to the world feeling larger and more lived in, in my opinion.
>>93387166This nigga is so autistic that it hurts.>>93387125I sorta agree but I also blame that on a lack of content. 3e is a very slow game and isn't really using their word count for the setting so much. Or for adventure ideas. You're expected to borrow from 1e/2e for that stuff.>>93383541Less cool but true. I do wish Exalted was more about saving the world and being a god king then martial arts but the fucking rules just aren't there. Mass social changes and social stuff in general is just lacking. Combat is also just a better, simpler and more permanent solution most of the time. Also less time consuming IRL! Although, even still, combat takes awhile.>>93384654God I wish someone would rape your autistic ass. I bet its tight. Also? You fucking retard? "We are taking part in a scenario, X stuff is distracting from it and the system does not handle it well." That's just an objective fact. I don't care if you're a shit GM who tells their players no or wastes a fuck ton of time on side stuff. You're autistic, you can't help yourself, you are physically incapable of noticing these things. It does not make them any less true.>>933879823e is nice in that some stuff is still in the air and doesn't have a hard answer. 2e was very silly with how everything had to have an answer. It made magic into a really shitty science. I blame autistic people for this as well - they are big into that kinda shit. The idea of mysticality is beyond the autist.
>>93388119>"We are taking part in a scenario, X stuff is distracting from it and the system does not handle it well."No, anon. Do you have some legitimate problem with reading comprehension? The point of having some kind of a scenario to start with is just that, to get things started. If players get active and come up with things they want to do, well, that's great isn't it? In a game about god-kings you should feel like a god-king, which means that ideally player characters don't just react to things happening to them but actively shape the world according to their own drives and desires. That kind of player involvement and engagement is more valuable and more in line with what Exalted should be about than any pre-written scenario the Storyteller might have in mind.
>>93388212Autistic. As. Fuck. Also overwhelmingly retarded. Like, you stupid cunt, you don't seem to realize that table-top games are a shared story telling experience and that shitty rules can distract from that. You are actually that fucking stupid. You're like, a cock sleeve. I can't think a single use for you besides bouncing on my dick.It's a big issue with Exalted that games get off-track in a bad way. Anyone who plays Exalted knows how easy it is for this to happen. With the way the game presents itself, you'd think it'd have the rules to handle these situations in an easier and hopefully not super time consuming way. It does not. Especially when it comes to mass social changes and things like that.DnD does not have this issue nearly as bad, but it STILL has this issue. And that's for a game whos entire point is having a simple plot and running through a fucking dungeon killing shit.The sad thing is it doesn't have to be that way. Exalted just needs a better rule set. Because right now it's fine for combat but pretty shit for anything else.
>>93388321>Autistic. As. Fuck. Also overwhelmingly retarded. Finish with your signature, don't open with it.
>>93388376That's not funny? Take your meds, you autistic cunt. or post some nudes, its all you're good for.
>>93388119>3e is nice in that some stuff is still in the air and doesn't have a hard answer. 2e was very silly with how everything had to have an answer. It made magic into a really shitty science. I blame autistic people for this as well - they are big into that kinda shit. The idea of mysticality is beyond the autist.Magic without spirituality is just a fancy science.
>>93388425I sincerely hope you're trolling. If you are, you deserve credit for effort if not subtlety. If you're not, you just come off as genuinely unhinged, not to mention clueless about how RPGs in general and Exalted in specific work.
>AUTISTIC PEOPLE ARE SO ANNOYINGYou are playing the most autistic hobby known to man other than trainspotting. Respect the autists on whose shoulders you stand when you make your shitboring games you're too afraid of sharing in favor of timelooping.
>>93388445Yeah, pretty much. It's one of the bigger failings of 2e. 3e handles it a lot better - I rather like the fact that not 'literaly everything lmao' comes from the Wyld. Also the Wyld itself is just way more Wyld then it was in 2e as well. In 2e the Wyld was incredibly, incredibly structured.>>93388450You can slurp my cock all you want, you autistic fuck. You're less then human so what you think doesn't really fucking matter. Also people think you're weird just by looking at you. Also? Exalted has a serious issue with games getting badly derailed because of background situations. For example - you go through a small city and want to take over that city. But you're already doing something with the other players. Tons of other examples - anyone who's actually played the game can think of situations where their game got derailed lmao.
>>93388499Real autistic people are too ashamed of being autistic to admit it online. You're a normie and I won't have you pretending otherwise. God I wish ass burgers was still a thing. I can't believe science took that from us.
>>93388445While that's true, fancy science can be pretty cool, too.
>>93388526Stolen valor, don't care, you're a failed normie and will never get gibs.>>93373370Geomantically necessary heart on the panties.
>>93388584I do have a fond spot for Alchemicals even though I have no idea how they play. I did dislike the 2e (maybe even 3e?) idea that Auto's realm could just take over Creation because they are "so much more advanced".Auto should be robot magic. That shouldn't override the other magics. Also another great thing about 3e? The sorcery initiations. I hated in 2e how everyone had to do that crappy quest shit. God that way lame. And people defended it! It was such a shame.
>>93388603this wounds me anon. Exalted is so less horny now that it's honestly pretty sad.
>>93388613>Auto should be robot magic. That shouldn't override the other magics. Also another great thing about 3e? The sorcery initiations. I hated in 2e how everyone had to do that crappy quest shit. God that way lame. And people defended it! It was such a shame.Yeah, I never really liked that either. The variety of sorcerous initiations in 3e makes sorcery feel much more varied and exciting than you ticking off five boxes.
>>93388119>3e is nice in that some stuff is still in the air and doesn't have a hard answer. 2e was very silly with how everything had to have an answer. It made magic into a really shitty science. I blame autistic people for this as well - they are big into that kinda shit. The idea of mysticality is beyond the autist.While I agree that things got over explained, the thing about it becoming more of a science is that if something can be measured, consistently replicated, and codified, it can be turned into a science.
>>93388683True honestly. There are ways to work around it though that I don't think are really all that complicated. For example: The source of the magic being unidentifiable. Magic that's constantly replicated, say, growing magic wooden swords could effect the environment around it in weird and esoteric ways. Maybe the nearby trees start looking a bit swordy or some such. Magic effects being "unique" and only one time things, yet with an incredible amount of variety. The way you interact with it could be wildly different from place to place.You said it yourself, I mean. If it can be measured, replicated and codified. So just, you know, make it so that can't be done to magic. You measure it, the measurements always come out different. You replicate it, things are different. You codify it, something always seems to break those rules. That sorta jam.
>>93388782But everything in Exalted is ultimately Essence since it's made from the Wyld. And changing how Essence worked would also have a lot of knock-on effects that would make it even change the lore. How can artifacts be made consistently? Why do Charms always cost the same amount of motes to use or always have the same effect? If it's consistent and reliably repeatable, it can be measured. Why does thaumaturgy work? How does this effect the way Primordials function and their understanding of reality?
>>93388613The real reason that something like the Locust Crusade is so dangerous isn't just because of having more artifacts (that helps a lot though), but also because Autochtonian society is much more centralized, united, and orderly. While the 8 Nations may come it conflict, each one is likely stronger than any other nation in Creation bar the Realm.I had an idea on how to make it less bad. First of all, have it so the seal hasn't been completely broken, and they can only keep it open for a short time, so it becomes a major bottleneck. Optionally, I pair this with the Locust Crusade happening several hundred years ago. The Realm kept them out of their territory and the Scavenger Lands kicked them out thanks in large part to Lookshy. Lunars managed to keep them contained, even if they couldn't manage it completely do to their comparatively smaller numbers and Creation being so large. This has lead to their being several Autochtonian colonies existing in Creation, allowing Alchemicals to be playable. The So8D can only be opened during Calibration, and the portals aren't large, so they can only get so much through at once, but if the ST wants to kick off a full-scale war, they could have it so they manage to fully break it.
>>93389082I mean, you do have the Beyond just sitting right there. Also, maybe the base state of reality isn't just "essence and motes". Instead it's "Wyld, and the impossible, given a concrete form." Or maybe the base state of the universe IS just motes, but like everything else every single mote has its own personal little god, so tiny and insignificant that they are ants to humans, as humans are to primordial.Keeping it multiple choice with options to work from just seems better imo. I was thinking you could take the "Measure, replicate, codify" and just throw away one of those at random. Auto would be measured and replicated but not codified because its magic cancer keeps fucking up how things are supposed to work on a reality level.I mean in practice keeping magic magical is honestly hard when its all over the place. Making it so everything isn't just a different form of magitech is nice.
>>93389229That feels less mystical to me, and more just random. There's more to mysticism and spiritualism than things being unexplainable. After all, they are in part explanations.
>>93373510Because they're the original guys trying to end Creation.
>>93375466Does 3e have combos?
>>93373745Yeah they were, maybe read the books.
>>93389454yawn>>93389649ok where are they
>>93389431Sure, but multiple contradicting explanations for the same phenomena. I get that using real world sources is important but in the real world magic and god/gods aren't real. Anything is better then just "Everything is Essence, the Wyld is the source."When you look at real cultures and the shit they do, things can be fucking insane. Now imagine if you had actual magic backing up all the insane shit. The whole "Every mote has its smaller god and it's really hard to separate the two" is just an idea I vaguely enjoy. Another thing to avoid is 'every type of magic can have a factory'. Maybe you want to have a bunch of magic monks chant to make magic pills. That could be fine! But if any monk can go to a factory, chant, and make magic pills you lose all the spirituality and mysticism.There is 100% a better path to take here and you can get that by just leaving open options and keeping things multiple choice. Two contradicting things can be true, in your game, if you want them to be.
>>93389431Pretty much my thoughts as well, anyone who's looked into actual mysticism and/or spirituality to any degree can tell you those things are NOT random and ALWAYS have an explanation, and at times very, very detailed onesI know people complain about 2e over explaining things, but part of the reason I loved it was because it actually felt like a world where the mystic explanation for things was right, and people started advancing their understanding of said system, as opposed to the standard TTRPG way of handling fantasy settings where it's just "X culture but with magic tacked on"
>>93382979None of this is accurate.
>>93389975...You know none of it is real though, right? And people believe in it anyways? That a bunch of ancient religions and such were constantly changing and different places had different ideas on how things work? In 2e it was just "lol essence magitech" and that shit was reductive as fuck. It was like, spirituality through the eyes of the mentally handicapped. 3e is quite a bit better in that regard.
>>93390074Lol. Games of exalted are easily brought off track. These games crash and burn all the time and they've never really managed to put in the changes needed to stop that from happening.This is a very simple, very obvious flaw anon. Mechanics for running social situations in the background in pretty damn important.
>>93390120Yes? And? I'm not sure I get your point, the people in those cases thought such things were real and made highly complex systems to explain themI liked that 2e's (and to a degree late 1e's) metaphysics did the same, AND since it was objectively true in the setting, that people not only managed to make it work, but it affected how people lived, what tools they used, technological development, etcThat was a cool setting aspect imo
>>93385925Don't stoop to his level. Be better than that.
>>93390173You can still have that with multiple, objectively correct answers instead of it all boiling down to the same thing everywhere though. They can even be contradictory. It's like the 2e sorcery thing. There was one way to get into, that quest shit, and it was terrible.You have this entire setting and you want to blow your load on one single objective truth and that's boring. You can still have your magical factories - these things aren't mutually exclusive.I feel like we're arguing whether we like the explanations given and you're saying you do, and I'm saying I do but wish it didn't encompass friggen everything. My only real point though was everything boiling down to magitech is lame.
>>93390120Isn't 3e the same? "LOL numinous"?
>>93390229I'd have to think about that for awhile desu. I'm leaning on yes but not as badly. I haven't put much thought into it though. That's a good point though.
>>93388376Fucking hilarious mate, got an actual grin and chuckle out of me.Also these threads have actually been good for me cause that other anon is barely even annoying me. I've actually gotten better at calming my anger over the years of arguing here. We're all going to make it.
>>93390229Also, just to be real here, "lol numinous" is just as shit. There is a middle ground between the two though. Too many fantasy games boil down to "Everything is true" and that's not what I'm trying to say at all.
>>93388517It's not derailing. It's the game as intended.
>>93390223>They can even be contradictory. It's like the 2e sorcery thing. There was one way to get into, that quest shit, and it was terribleThe sorcery is from 1e, and you could just "speed up the process"
>>93390223It's more that I liked the fact that there was a detailed explanation for everything and people in universe were both trying, and succeeding, in finding it out. That's the cool aspect I miss, while I dislike agreeing with the troll, I was thinking about how pointing out 3e just replaced metaphysics and explanations for "numinous mystery" in my last post, it doesn't really make multiple possible answers, it just replaces a complicated answer with a simple one, "lol, magic"On the idea of there being multiple right answers, I do agree there can certainly be multiple working models/understandings of how things worked, sure, but I liked that there was clear evidence/enough information for people both in and out of universe to try and ponder how things actually work, more "This is what X thinks, this is what Y thinks" would've been nice though
>>93390249>>93390259It got really silly when they described that for a numinous reason city gods take after their cities.
>>93390124Off what track, anon? What's the track? What defines the track? Games of Exalted are supposed to be about what this bunch of demigods does with all that power, and the idea that the things these demigods do with their power could bring things off track is pretty ridiculous. It honestly just sounds like you're a below-average ST who doesn't really get Exalted.
>>93390259>>93390318They should have added more mysteries and weird stuff even as they explained some of it. I like magitech but feel like it was a bit over-represented. While it had its flaws, I did overall like DotFA 1st Age because it felt like a super advanced civilization from a jrpg, which seems appropriate to me.
>>93390996Yeah, my biggest complaint with DotFA is that everything they're studying is "They ALMOST figured X out before the Usurpation, a few things they were studying but were absolutely baffled by would've been nice, as would a few more way, way out there things, like stuff deep in the Wyld they ran into they have no explanation for, or maybe a mention or two of "Wait, what the hell is that?" from the Beyond or something
>>93390229>Isn't 3e the same? "LOL numinous"?god you write like a fucking insect that learned how to type on a keyboard, your sentence structure is so fucked up.
>>93391229Dude he literally just asked a question then gave a quote as an example.
Who did this? Serenity sid or a member of house cynis.https://nypost.com/2024/07/20/lifestyle/swingers-festival-swarms-quiet-british-village-of-allington-bigger-better-and-bolder/
>>93391347I think Anon thought that Anon was me. I don't know how, seeing as how the question was directed at me but...
Anyone have good pics or search terms for DB exalts? I was thinking that kind of ornate imperial Chinese armor that you see in faction, like Dynasty Warriors.
Alright you fags have made me curious to read the Raksha playable material from 1e and 2e because Unshaped are Primordials. What am I in for?
>>93392706>Unshaped are Primordials.No? They're very different beings in what they are and how they functionThat said, either confusion or finding that things make perfect sense, it tends to go one way or the other when someone tries to wrap their heads around Raksha mechanics
What is the main utility behind Two Selves As One if the Lunar can't make rolls to notice things the Familiar missed? It takes up a lot of text to for an effect that is barely going to be used in any games.
>>93392897NTA but Unshaped and Primordials have a lot of similarities in how they function and sometimes the book draws parallel to it, so I can't blame anon for thinking that.
I've been looking through Exalted books recently to try to work out how many Sidereals died. This is including all editions, though I'll try to point out if they were retconned. I really want to see how bad they job. If anybody knows of any more instances, please let me know.Some things I've found on such a large reread: Solar Exaltation can be prophesized (Implied 1e Core pg4/Confirmed Scroll of Exalts pg18), Sidereals can fabricate soulsteel (Yu Shan pg116), Sidereals can't extend their lives by any artificial means (Lands of Creation pg36) but they and many gods also think that the Stone of Immortality will extend the life of Chejop Kejak if he accepts it (Sidereals pg32), and of all the Celestial Exalted, Lunars die the least.>1e>Sidereals pg82: 1>Sidereals pg73: 1 + "several younger Sidereals">Bastions of the North pg15: 7>Aspect Book Water pg69: 1 maybe>Kingdom of Halta pg39/41: 1>total 9+>2e>Sidereals pg25: >17 + "dozens of Sidereal Exalted died in the campaign", separate from the previous 17+>Sidereals pg27: >1>Sidereals pg49: "In recent years, too many Sidereals have died unexpectedly">Sidereals pg76/Yu Shan pg22/East pg14: 3>Infernals pg51: 2>Yu Shan pg106: "some of their number" out of 12>B&W Treatises pg21: 12, as part of the previously mentioned Sidereals pg25 dozens.>Return of the Scarlet Empress pg41-42: "most of their number">Total w/o RotSE 50+>3e>Skimmed Core/Lunars/Sidereals and didn't find any hard kills. Lots of general fuzzy war and destruction, no hard data. Having just reread most of 1e and a fair bit of 2e while skimming, I had trouble stomaching much of 3e's 'quality writing'.This autism was brought on by having just read Bastions of the North describing seven Sidereals going down as "an unprecedented loss for the Sidereal Exalted", then straight across to Black and White Treatises saying Silur "survived the Calibration feast massacre and slew a full dozen Sidereal martial arts masters before she fell."
>>93393024>Skimmed Core/Lunars/Sidereals and didn't find any hard kills. Lots of general fuzzy war and destruction, no hard data. Having just reread most of 1e and a fair bit of 2e while skimming, I had trouble stomaching much of 3e's 'quality writing'.lol this autist wants a fucking census
>>93393024>This autism was brought on by having just read Bastions of the North describing seven Sidereals going down as "an unprecedented loss for the Sidereal Exalted", then straight across to Black and White Treatises saying Silur "survived the Calibration feast massacre and slew a full dozen Sidereal martial arts masters before she fell."holy fuck 1e really overplayed how strong Solars were compared to Sidereals. Sidereals were by no means at complete parity with them, but wow.In 2e it was more understandable since the entire Sidereal Charmset was bricked.
>>93393117Damn right I do. I'm trying to run a setting here, give me numbers!
>>93393024Interesting.>Lots of general fuzzy war and destruction, no hard data. Having just reread most of 1e and a fair bit of 2e while skimming, I had trouble stomaching much of 3e's 'quality writing'.Understandable; 3e is aping Tanith Lee and Elder Scrolls, but it comes as shameful & self-indulgent
>>93393148oh no, think of the STs whose campaigns will be ruined because they don't know how many Sids died in RY 520...
>>93393147>holy fuck 1e really overplayed how strong Solars were compared to Sidereals. Sidereals were by no means at complete parity with them, but wowIt is inconsistent.
>>93393993I feel like a lot of 'inconsistency' is up to the nature of the system and how it's being portrayed in the setting. That is to say, Exalted is a structured point-buy, rather than a class system or something like that. Which is to say, a Solar isn't necessarily going to beat a Dragonblood because it's entirely possible that any given Solar could be fucking awful at fighting, resisting poison, etc etc, or a Dragonblood could be really good at prying open a particular pain point despite a Solar picking up a perfunctory defense against the general field of effects.There's also the age/experience shooting that idea of how you would portray them 'consistently' in the foot, because you can't say that a Solar warrior is going to be more powerful than a Dragonblood scholar because the Dragonblood might have a thousand times their experience and have picked up a half-dozen celestial martial arts styles to round out their build with so many skin-mount amulets that their mote pool is bigger too.
>>93394211I meant writing wise, it is similar to how Diana from LoL was treated over the sentinels of light event.
>>93394403What does that mean?
>>93396001Collaborative fiction such as wrestling, comic books or mmorpgs (namely WoW) suffer from similar problems, such as lack of any kind consistency.A notorious form is in the power levels, Diana despite being practically the goddess of the moon was treated as nothing in particular.Another infamous example is Spider-Man vs the Firelord, were the latter was treated as a generic above human dude capable of throwing fire around, despite being one of Galactus' heralds.
>>93366609What kind of charms would you give to an Exigent of cooking and/or kitchens, or even food in general?
>>93397376Play a Solar (human expertise), Dragon-Blooded (agriculture) or Lunar (dairy products)This could be handled by one use artifacts, or cooking utensil artifacts.Most of super chefs in fiction or are solars or Dragon-Blooded.
>>93396654Ozai really wasn't that strong.
>>93398510He just wanted some pizza
Besides the Dowager, which Deathlord do you think is the most likely to Exalt Lolis?
>>93397631>or Lunar (dairy products)I think you could, and probably should, get a lot weirder than that given their regeneration.
>>93399459I don't remember if it is Heron or FaFL who has an entourage of underage incubi
>>93399493Consensual cannibalism is reserved for their Major/Defining Intimacies.
>>93399577I was also thinking about eggs, shells and skins.
>>93382936Her red flags are bigAnd her boobs are biggerBut...
>>93393024>Lunars die the least.Are you confusing not mentioning canon Lunar deaths with "died so many times from the wyld hunt and fair folk it's not worth mentioning exact kill counts"?Because Cathak Cainan mentions in aspect book fire how he's killed around 20 anathema. Even factoring in how he's a powerful elder, the wyld hunt runs at least once per decade, and since it's implied to succeed most of the time, that's at least several dozen dead Lunars.
>>93399577>That one weird lunar who turned themselves into a living farm and finds it fun to feed people with there own flesh.
>>93400155Yes, and intentionally so. >Cathak Cainan mentions in aspect book fire how he's killed around 20 anathema12, and it's likely they were mostly Solars since those recur the most and the Sidereals are actively scrying them pre-Exaltation to spawn camp them, and these are kills he's helped in rather than performed directly, but yes. I'm only counting pretty hard confirmation.Sidereals die like flies in 2e, Solars got got with the Usurpation and there are at least another half-dozen hard kills I spotted flying around, but with Lunars it's hard to determine exactly how many went squish over the centuries. It could be only dozens, if not for later retcons saying there are only a handful of First Age Lunar Elders alive.
>>93400945>if not for later retcons saying there are only a handful of First Age Lunar Elders alive.I am pretty sure that there are more than a dozen, a new one is introduced from time to time.
>>93400318>we never got any charms related to Lunars creating cheese, honey, milk, butter, eggs, honeydew or caviar.we were robbed.
>>93401815>First Generation: Elders of the First Age>Only a handful of First Age Lunars survive. 3e pg. 26First Age Lunar elders from the 3e Lunar book including but not limited to: Ka-Koshu, Leviathan, Ma-Ha-Suchi, Raksi, Ul the Burning Eye, "a few others (3e Lunars pg. 39)", Feather Drenched in the Blood of the Fallen, Sublime Danger, Sha'a Oka, and Tanisa Ring-Eater.
>>93402831You forgot Lilith, and the ones from before 3e like Tammuz.Talking about him, why he isn't in 3e?
>>93402911>>93402831That would be about 12 surviving Lunars from the First Age, which would be 3% of the total if are 400 Lunars.I suppose that with the change of focus of the Lunars (as happens in each edition) Tammuz whose achievement is to create a society to become vassals of the Realm did not make much sense. Or maybe the devs wanted the Delzhan and their takeover of Chiaroscuro to be purely mortal.
>>93403086>Or maybe the devs wanted the Delzhan and their takeover of Chiaroscuro to be purely mortalIt is weird since "become the khan" was a plot made specially for 1e PC lunars.
>>93403147Wasn't Tammuz' role behind the Delzahn rise added in 2E?
What was the book series about alternate versions of creation called?
>>93404352The kha-khan was a Lunar
>>93404538Shards of the Exalted Dream? There was only one though, unless there's another I'm unaware of?
>>93404638Found it, thanks.
Do we know what happens to the exalted when their god is killed?I remember someone mentioning how they grew more powerful.
>>93400945>it's likely they were mostly Solars since those recur the mostIt was always weird to me that the majority of the Wyld Hunts are against Solars when there are only around 5 or 6 of them that weren't imprisoned compared to hundreds of Lunars.
How lethal was the Contagion for the Celestial exalted?We know Sids and Lunars died to it but was the death rate reduced for them?
>>93404830I don't remember fully, but they gain permanent Essence dots, I think the information was in RotSE.>>934048691e Lunars were really weird, they weren't written as being part of the setting.
>>93404830>DEATH OF AN INCARNA>As the Sun falls, liquid orichalcum pouring from fatal wounds, he gasps out a final command to his Chosen: “Avenge me.” The ashen clouds disperse within a week to reveal Creation’s sun dimmed to a blood-red orb no brighter than the final rays of twilight. As it was the judgment of the Most High that determined who is a creature of darkness, the Sun’s death removes this designation from existence and makes Holy Charms largely useless. The Ebon Dragon laughs as his imperfection closes. Nothing can kill him now. Meanwhile, every Lawgiver in existence hears these thunderous words in her soul as her anima blazes to iconic splendor. Abyssals, Green Sun Princes and Solar akuma remain deaf to the cry. The legends that the death of an Incarna would drive its Chosen mad are true. The madness that befalls the Solars is that of obsession and fury, as each one develops an Intimacy of righteous vengeance against the Ebon Dragon. With his last Charm, the Sun adds to this Intimacy by providing full replenishment of motes, Willpower and Virtue channels as well as an additional dot of Essence and 10 Charms (selected by the Solar’s player), all bestowed instantly and without cost. Needless to say, this is not at all what the Ebon Dragon anticipated, and he is most displeased to have his otherwise absolute victory marred so.Return of the Scarlet Empress, p.195-6
>>93404953 This is so fucking dumb.
>>93404953Couldn't 2e Solars label something as creature of darkness?>The legends that the death of an Incarna would drive its Chosen mad are trueI wonder if they already had plans for a fallen Incarna by the end of 2e.
>>93405015>Couldn't 2e Solars label something as creature of darkness?Zeal was errata'd to do exactly that.
>>93403086The current tri-khan is murdering Terrestrials
>>93405372Part 2
>>93404977How so?
>>93404888Sorta, the Contagion was 90% lethal on average, but higher Essence beings had a better survival rate, going by the mechanics given, you basically had a [your Essence] in 10 chance of surviving if you got it, so your average Exalt had better odds, but unless you were an elder it was still more likely to kill you than not>>93405015>Couldn't 2e Solars label something as creature of darkness?Yeah, there were a few charms that let them mark things as Creatures of Darkness, IIRC one requires them to succeed at a prayer roll, one's a counter attack after getting hit with a UMI, and the third only turns people into them if they're within one mile and refuse to meet the SolarThere was also a charm that let you treat anything as a Creature of Darkness for one action, but you'd eat a point of limit if you targeted a Solar and another charm that lets you're existence keep the holy keyword working if Conky's dead, but it's mostly useless until then so it's questionable if anyone has it yet>I wonder if they already had plans for a fallen Incarna by the end of 2e.Possibly, there were IIRC there were hints or two about Incarna that died during the Primordial war and I think there were lines that mentioned there used to be more Maidens? I don't recall the specifics though
Are there charms that allow you to summon other mounts or do I need to convert stuff from other game lines?
>>93405727>Possibly, there were IIRC there were hints or two about Incarna that died during the Primordial war and I think there were lines that mentioned there used to be more Maidens? I don't recall the specifics thoughYes, DotFA also at a memorial for the fallen Incarna and their chosen.The question is if those were just random references or if they were planning something. >>93405770Demon summoning, there are jewel wasps.
>>93405799I like the proposal for one of the fallen Incarna in the Nocturnals fan book, which was a goddess of Lethe who represented the Milky Way.
>>93405888It is my headcanon for the origin of Liminals.
Today’s shower thought. The Kukla as a concept is dumb because there’s a 0% chance it could ever actually lay waste to the world. Realistically it’d get ganked by one or more of the Deathlords/Elder Exalts/Etc that call Creation home. So the concept of ‘apocalypse dragon’ was a waste from the start completely apart from all the bad logic of how PCs compare to it.
>>93406343>The Kukla as a concept is dumb because there’s a 0% chance it could ever actually lay waste to the world. Realistically it’d get ganked by one or more of the Deathlords/Elder Exalts/Etc that call Creation home.I'd argue the question is less "Would it destroy Creation" and more "Would it be stopped before it destroyed the part of Creation your group calls home"
>>93406343>>93406451It is just trope based writing, the fandom put more thoughts on it than the writers did.
>>93406343You could just have it so that the Kukla waking up just fucks shit up in general. Kukla is the crazy earth dragon right? Maybe killing it has horrible Creation wide consequence, like all the soil goes bad or something.I honestly have no idea - I always liked the balance point that five essence five solars should be able to do just about anything.
>>93406612>I honestly have no idea - I always liked the balance point that five essence five solars should be able to do just about anything.Same.
This monday didn't have any news.
Still don't get why the non-Dawn castes were even made outside of meta party composition reasons. Their only purpose was to kill some bullshit monsters.
>>93409332If you wanted to play dnd you should just play that instead.
>>93409519Or how about the lore make sense instead?
>>93409526Lore says the average Dawn can defeat a few hundred people tops and is vulnerable to assassination. The Ultimate Invincible Dawn is the exception not the norm. In Exalted fluff and to an extent even mechanically, armies, logistics and civilization matter a lot and are very effective weapons.
>>93409554What does any of that have to do with fighting primordials, which is the sole purpose they were made for?
>>93409572Fighting the Primordials involved logistics, armies, and assassination.
>>93409583No it didn't.
>>93409602Yeah, it did. Some jackass asked this very question to one of the devs years ago>Your Past Life: Although I recognize that the Exalted were, at a fundamental level, created to slay the Primordials, I disagree that that is "what they do." From the evidence available, it seems to me that they were created with the post-war "rule the universe" job firmly in mind -- otherwise, it would make far more sense for the social and constructive abilities of the Exalted to be purely tuned towards large-scale war, when many of them are actually better tuned towards (say) leadership of a peaceful nation-state.Dev: Well, the Exalted were given the dominion of the universe as a consolation prize while the gods got the X-Box. It turns out that a lot of those powers work well for civilian use, too. Solars were designed to be super-leaders, so they turned from generals and ultra-savant stratego mages into emperors and brilliant architect leaders. Lunars went from the ultimate infiltrator-special forces-bodyguards to secret police and consorts of the shining god-kings. Sidereals went from tactical councilors and ninjas to bureaucrat ninjas who deal with managing the future in a way that is a constant suppression of open cosmological warfare. Dragon-Blooded went from footsoldiers and battlefield support engineers to well, soldiers and support engineers. They upheld the hierarchy until they overthrew it and took over. In giving the Exalted stewardship, the gods garrisoned the world so that their enemies could never retake it.
>>93409621No it didn't. And I don't particularly care about some dude's off-the-books headcanon.
>>93409644Then why are there five Castes dumbass?
>>93409332They were made to fight a war, which doesn't just include killing stuff but a lot of things meant to facilitate killing stuff.>>93409602>>93409644>No it didn't. And what are you basing that on, anon?
>>93409742>They were made to fight a war, which doesn't just include killing stuff but a lot of things meant to facilitate killing stuff.Doesn't apply to the particular enemy they were made against. At best you might argue for artifacts, but that doesn't justify the other castes, not to mention that in the hypothetical scenario of nothing but Dawns they could also just have a few of their own learn how to do it.
>>93409332>Their only purpose was to kill some bullshit monsters.Yes but to kill those monsters they also needed to do a whole lot of relatively mundane warfare, politics and logistics. While you could rely on favored abilities it was better for the gods to have more consistent body of servants so that the war effort doesn't collapse because your new recruits didn't have the other necessary skills to run a war machine.I that that the justification could be better but it is good enough.>>93409621>consolation prize while the gods got the X-BoxNot the X-Box, the Orgasm Button™.
>>93409767>Yes but to kill those monsters they also needed to do a whole lot of relatively mundane warfare, politics and logistics.But they really didn't. What purpose could any of that possibly serve against the Primordials?
>>93409332You need more than frontline fighters to win a war, and Twilights were the best fighters anyway
>>93409763Sure it does. Primordial War involved armies fighting on both sides, not just Exalts and Primordials having kung fu fights. It should be straightforwardly obvious why everything involving gaining allies, organizing and leading armies and keeping up the troops' morale was useful in the War. Usefulness of Abilities like Craft, Medicine, Occult, Stealth, Awareness and Integrity should be similarly obvious.
>>93409812That's headcanon.
The last character you played is transported to the modern world, what do they do?Also what charms and cast would you go for if you were playing a game in the modern setting?
>>93409775Keeping the hoards of lower essence devas locked down
>>93409820So is your view on the War, anon. Mine's headcanon with some basis in dev statements, at least, while yours seems to be based on nothing at all.
>>93409831Keep them locked down with a few of the extra Dawns you would have from not splitting them into useless castes.
>>93409775>What purpose could any of that possibly serve against the Primordials?Getting to said Primordials and dealing with the defenses they build over time, building and maintaining the primordial killing weapons that type of stuff.Imagine you are playing a game, do you presume your character is just getting dropped at the final boss's doorstep?
>>93409848>DawnAh, you're dumb I see
>>93409861Also negotiating surrender, presumably. Most Primordials weren't slain, after all, and surely Exalts engaged in propaganda, as well, to encourage surrender rather than a fight to the very end.
>>93409861I already addressed artifacts in an earlier post. And not being dropped at their doorstep only makes having more warriors more important, not less.
>>93409873There were no negotiations. The Primordials were all either killed or fled.>ackshually they didn't die when killedIt's the same shit. They're gone for good.
>>93409880And more sneaky bastards, and more smart guys to come up with clever plans, and more silver-tongued bastards to recruit agents from the allies of the enemy...There's little concrete information on the Primordial War, and lacking such information the reasonable assumption to made is that the War was fought in such a way that the Exalts and Castes that were made were needed. What we do know are bits like 1E's Player's Guide mentioning that the Dragon Kings fought alongside gods and helped to slay the Primordials and their allies - so at the very least we know for a fact that the War wasn't just a fight between Exalts and Primordials, and that there were more troops than that on both sides.
>>93409909Mot Primordials are locked in Malfeas, though. Those guys neither died nor fled, but specifically surrendered. A minority of Primordials were slain in the War, and a smaller minority than that fled Creation after the War.
>>93409820imagine thinking first circle creatures and dragon blooded are headcanon.
>>93409932The Solars didn't need to "negotiate" for that. And you especially did not need to split 2/5 of your solars warriors into negotiators.
>>93409830Probably find his way back to creation. >Also what charms and cast would you go for if you were playing a game in the modern setting?This needs to be talked with the table, but a solaroid farmer or a game in an agricultural region would be interesting.
>>93409972>This needs to be talked with the table, but a solaroid farmer or a game in an agricultural region would be interesting.An ascended farmer going back to their roots in a strange world sounds like an interesting character concept.
>>93409969>The Solars didn't need to "negotiate" for that.Based on what, anon? You keep making claims without offering anything to back them up.>And you especially did not need to split 2/5 of your solars warriors into negotiators.Again, lacking much concrete info on the War, the reasonable assumption to make is that it was fought in such a way that all the Exalts and Castes were needed. Assuming that actually only Dawns were needed and all the other Exalts were useless is some goofy shit, and it's the kind of an assumption that needs some real proof or some very convincing arguments to support it.
>>93409982Not my job to justify the setting on the writers' behalf.
>>93409880Nta, but no you didn't>>93409909....It's literally called the Surrender OathsIt's flat out canon there were negotiations, most were of the "Surrender or die" nature, but it's also canon the Primordials could've dragged it into a MAD situation as far back as 1e so there was some negotiations to keep it from going down that path>>93409969It's also canon that Primordials had passive perfect defenses, the only canon one we know of is Autocthion's (total immunity to tools), but I do recall there was a dev quote that at least one of them had to have a river damned before it could be harmed, there was some weird shit the Exalted had to do just to be able to punch some of them>>93409982Hell, even ignoring the idea of Solars building or organizing shit, who's keeping all 300 of them on the same page? Exalts by their nature tend to have extreme motivations and egos, you're going to need people to sooth over the Circle's egos and medics when the others do get their shit stomped
>>93409999Well that settles it, you're a nogames trollShould've known by how badly you butcher the lore
>>93410014If you can't explain it without resorting to headcanon, just say so. Or say nothing at all, not sure why you decided to treat it as a personal offense.It's still a core conceit of the setting that needs to be justified but isn't.
>>93409999It's your job to justify your own position, however. There are clear reasons for why all the Castes would've been needed, and the fact that nobody can't literally stop you from saying "nuh-uh" to each of those reasons isn't really on the devs.>>93410006>It's also canon that Primordials had passive perfect defenses, the only canon one we know of is Autocthion's (total immunity to tools), but I do recall there was a dev quote that at least one of them had to have a river damned before it could be harmed, there was some weird shit the Exalted had to do just to be able to punch some of themYeah, something like Solar-tier Linguistics being needed to fight He Who Bleeds the Unknown Word wouldn't surprise me. I doubt fighting Oramus was a straightforward affair, either.>Hell, even ignoring the idea of Solars building or organizing shit, who's keeping all 300 of them on the same page? Exalts by their nature tend to have extreme motivations and egos, you're going to need people to sooth over the Circle's egos and medics when the others do get their shit stomped
>>93410031>literally thinks armies are made up solely of infantry units and to suggest otherwise is headcanon.
>>93410036My position is that it makes no sense and isn't explained. Your position is to write a fanfic explaining it, and I'm really not interested in fanfiction.
>>93410043Yeah, you still need to justify that position, anon. There's not much to discuss here if you intend to keep ignoring the arguments people make while offering none of your own. I'd be happy to keep talking about this with you if you at some point decide to actually address things people have said and figure out something to support your position, though.
>>93410031And yet you're the one headcanoning the other castes were made for no reason despite the books saying there was one>>93410036>Yeah, something like Solar-tier Linguistics being needed to fight He Who Bleeds the Unknown Word wouldn't surprise me.I actually think there was a dev quote implying he had to be beaten in a poetry battle before he could be harmed (or said poetry battle was what killed him), but I couldn't recall the specifics, I know the river being damned is canon thoughI don't think there's any specifics on Oramus other than one dev line implying he just up and surrendered for seemingly no reason, but yeah, he was probably a nightmare to fight
>>93410056My position is inherently justified because the explanation simply is not there. Which is only further proven by your need to immediately resort to headcanon.
>>93410100>My position is inherently justified
>>93410100It's not. By default a variety of skills and roles are needed in a War, and again, one thing we know for sure is that this was an actual war with more participants than just Exalts and Primordials. The necessity of social, crafting, medicinal, organizational, espionage etc. skills is clear by default. Arguing that those skills actually weren't needed in this particular war is an extremely weird and far-fetched claim that requires serious justification.
>>93410126I said that there is no explanation for the caste split. You said that there is, and pointed to a fanfic you wrote about it. Are you really so stupid that you don't understand why this doesn't work?
>>93409775The Primordials did not fight the War by all of them turning into planet sized monsters and dogpiling Creation, in any edition, by any author’s explanation or version of the war. Grabowski calls attention to that possibility saying “If throwing planets down on the Exalted would have worked they would have done that”. We don’t know how the War proceeded but we know they didn’t try that, presumably because they knew it wouldn’t work and/or would have destroyed their Creation. We have three versions of the War at least. The Grabowski account of gundam battles and sky naval conflict. The 2E account of Exalts fighting the Titans and their Souls in opposable forms. And the 3E account where the Primordials were landscapes in which the war was fought that occasionally dropped uncountable damage. The only version of the War where it doesn’t at all resemble a war, is the one version called out as stupid. And it *is* stupid. A Primordial turning into a planet sized monster and stepping on Creation first of all destroys Creation and second of all puts him into melee/parry range of THE ENTIRE EXALTED HOST. Great job Issy, how many times can Perfect 300 Perfect Attacks? Oh and I hope for your sake nobody can exploit your Flaw or you’re dead. So in the version of the War that actually happened, the one where that plan is stupid, yeah it involved armies and assassins and logistics and all five Castes, no matter *how* you conceive of the War or the Primordials statblocks or lack thereof.
>>93410140The simple and obvious explanation is the variety of skills needed to effectively wage a war. You do actually need to offer some kind of proof for this not being the case if you want to be taken seriously, anon.
>>93410140you can't even figure out who you're talking at. the concept that you only need front line fighters in a war is so inherently obvious that anyone not functionally a child would realize your argument is worthless.
>>93409914The Primordials targeted the Dragon Kings specifically because they thought they were a threat.
>>93409820Why wouldn't the Primordials be bringing along their First Circle soldiers and servitor races (like the Lintha) along to war?
>>93410299They didn't target DKs just because if their power, however, but because they fiught in the War on the rebelling side. This much is explicitly stated in the Dragon Kings' writeup in Player's Guide.
Is Patrick Bateman more likely to be an Abyssal or an Infernal?
>>93410568Wrong.
>>93410612>rebellious Dragon Kings>rebelliousI guess that means that they took no part in the rebellion and just chilled there until they were slaughtered?
>>93410637
>>93410641Yes, as I said.
>>93410694>>93410637ESL?
>>93410719You're not serious right now. No one can be that bad at reading tone and context. Just re-read this whole chain of posts and take a minute thinking about what's being said in >>93410637, and what's it being said in response to. Just as a hint, >>93410568 and >>93410637 are both from me.
>>93390124>Games of exalted are easily brought off track.Nobody understands what the fuck you're talking about.>Mechanics for running social situations in the background in pretty damn important.They're objectively not because 90+% of RPGs do not have those rules. Exalted could definitely benefit from it, but whining that "thing that is super niche and nobody but you asked for" is absent is not a valid criticism.
>>93404869>It was always weird to me that the majority of the Wyld Hunts are against Solars when there are only around 5 or 6 of them that weren't imprisoned compared to hundreds of Lunars.There were always dozens of Solars missing from the prison. The number reincarnating increased over time, though. There were thirteen Solars locked up and slowly going mad in the Invisible Fortress who only started reincarnating hundreds of years into the Shogunate, for example.Also, the difference is that Lunars are both not the first priority and will eventually get picked up by the Silver Pact and escape out into the Wyld, while Solars are stuck cycling through reincarnations in Creation, getting jumped on by the Hunt. The Wyld Hunt spent it's time busy as hell, and was damn effective. With at least 24 Solars split between 6 chapterhouses, with about a week between Exaltations, and the Wyld Hunt stayed on top of it. Every time I look at the way the books talk about them it gets made clear to me that they were absurdly competent. Look deep enough and things like it taking Valor 5 to face down the Wyld Hunt start making more sense.
>>93410743I'm 100% serious. I posted a quote saying "The Dragon Kings helped in the rebellion" and you asked me if rebelling meant "not rebelling". That alone was enough to make me wonder if you spoke English. Then I posted a message saying "No they fought, and helped kill the Primordials". To which you reiterated that your point stood, when it was directly refuted. SO either English is your second language, OR you thought when I said "Wrong" initially I was telling you you were wrong in believing the Dragon Kings helped rebel when the post and underline make it clear I was rebuking you for saying it wasn't their power that made the Primordials kill them. Which would be such a poor reading of the posts especially considering you said that in reply to >>93410299That I would still be questioning if you spoke English as a first language.
>>93410890A big part of it is that in First Edition, Solars Exalted with fuck-all. A starting PC has had two years or so to figure out Essence control. A fresh Dawn Caste is stated to be strong enough to kill "half a dozen trained warriors". The game doesn't even let you play as these Essence 1 Solars, many of whom don't even know they've Exalted when it happens. It wasn't until later that the classic image of Exaltation making you a decent badass became the norm. In First it was largely "You Exalted and its kind of weird and you need months of training to get your starting Charms". Then look at how the Hunt was built to be able to kill even decently powerful Solars individually and it all makes sense. They really were picking off new Solars with only a few days or weeks of Exalting, in an edition where getting to starting PC level took a minimum of several months.
>>93410893Are you, yourself, perhaps ESL? I said that Dragon Kings weren't targeted just because they were strong but because they fought in the rebellion. >>93410612 explicitly calls that claim wrong, while including a bit from the book that, in fact, supports that view. Just calling that statement "wrong" if you just meant to challenge a part of it is such unclear communication that I have to question your own grasp of English. Of course, even if you had communicated more clearly, your point itself would still be fairly nonsensical. The bits you, yourself, posted make it clear that DKs rebelling was the reason, or a part of the reason, they were slaughtered. Therefore, they were not killed simply because they were powerful, but because they used their power to help the rebellion; therefore, >>93410568 stands and is supported by the material you posted. It doesn't even sound like you actually disagree with my statement, so what the fuck is this even about, anon? Aside from that, in this context reading >>93410637 as literally suggesting that DKs didn't rebel is such a staggering failure of comprehension that I halfway suspect I'm getting trolled here.
>>93410949>>93410568>just because they were strong>justI admit I missed this word and therefore thought you were arguing their power was not relevant at all, and therefore apologize. I took your further statements as being willfully obtuse based on that misunderstanding and therefore responded harshly. I apologize.
>>93410980Fair enough, anon, these things happen. I got a bit too heated there, myself.
>>93410989Yes I thought you were arguing the position that the Primordial War didn't need to involve armies and that the Dragon Kings were merely slaughtered, not defeated in battles in which they participated.
>>93411009Well, it's good that we cleared things up. I'll say that I'll take an honest misunderstanding like this over some of the bullshit in these threads any day, and I appreciate you posting bits of published lore instead of just making claims with no basis.
>>93410890>There were thirteen Solars locked up and slowly going mad in the Invisible Fortress who only started reincarnating hundreds of years into the Shogunate, for example.I wonder if this was going to be the original origin of all of the Deathlords, instead of just 2.
>>93410912The opening fiction of 1e was about a young inexperienced Solar killing two Dragon-Blooded and a bunch of soldiers.She used her guile for it, through.
>>93411953She didn't kill either of those Dragon-Blooded, though. She wounded one and retreated, IIRC with her having proven dangerous enough for the DBs to not pursue her with one already wounded being presented as a fairly impressive thing.
>>93412059She killed the wood aspect, the fire aspect is the one who retreated.
Reading 1e I noticed that they always talk about the same few places.
>>93412165Fair enough, I remembered that wrong.
>>93409332starting to think people in here just fundamentally do not like exalted because of takes like this
>>93412495nta but there's a lot of things about Exalted that deeply piss me off, every edition, and yet all the unspoken good parts about the game and setting keep me here. Help
>>93412495I legitimately think it's just one troll who tries to piss people off, guy'll spam multiple inflammatory posts in quick succession around the same time about every other night and then will argue against whoever takes the bait>>93412525Focus on the fun parts, ignore the shitty parts, same as you do any TTRPG
>>93412495Okay, but there's still no explanation regardless of how you feel about it.
>>93412992No, the explanation given by multiple people earlier ITT is the explanation.
>>93412992Go to /k/ and ask about NCOs.https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-US-Army-members-are-combatants
>>93413094Has no bearing on this setting or scenario.
>>93413166Just read caste book dawn.
>>93412992Here's my explanation: Some Primordials can't die to hitting them harder, within the means of the Exalted. Hitting Cecelyne's infinite desert with infinite damage isn't enough.Some Primordials you need to get weird with. Sometimes that means damming a river that spans the world, something which you need a Twilight to design and an Eclipse to gather the people to build. Sometimes that means giving the being of perfect logic a syntax error. Sometimes you have to shout down an eternal storm, or win in a shadow duel. Exalted did not actually have the means to reduce everything to a kung fu battle, but they did have the tools to change the game or give themselves a chance.
>>93412992why would they spell out something so obvious that even functional retards should understand?
>>93413255Well, that's your explanation, but I'd like to see the canon one.
>>93413402What's the canon reason for thinking that the Primordial War was fought so unlike any other war that only direct combat roles were useful, anon?
>>93413429That anon is a never served.
>>93413429It's the same canon reason for thinking that mortals don't have 3 dicks and 7 testicles.
>>93413451you think the canon reason that the primordial war was fought differently then every other war ever is because mortals dont have 3 dicks and that is somehow different than every other mortal ever. i see the problem now, you dont understand anything.
>>93413497Then I guess mortals have 7 dicks and 5 assholes because I wrote some fanfiction that says so.
>>93413504Anon, you don't have any evidence supporting your own fanfiction that the Primordial War was dudes throwing hands. You asserted this idea, which means it's actually your job to provide any kind of evidence to support your theory. It's rank hypocrisy to shit on others for mentioning what they think is right without direct hard quote evidence when you've got nothing yourself.
>>93413530>Anon, you don't have any evidence supporting your own fanfiction that the Primordial War was dudes throwing hands.Neither do you to the contrary. In other words, it's completely unjustified in canon.
>>93413451But anon, the reason for assuming that mortals don't, in fact, have 3 dicks and 7 testicles despite the game never saying anything about it one way or another is that we all know something about humans, and in reality humans don't have 3 dicks and 7 testicles. In other words, we use real life knowledge and common sense to figure out the things the game doesn't explicitly spell out. In case of the Primordial War, however, you've rejected the use of real life knowledge and common sense like that. The logic used to come up with the explanations for non-Dawns' usefulness earlier ITT is, fundamentally, the same logic that leads us to assume that mortals have the same number of dicks and testicles as in real life. If you reject common sense logic when it comes to the War, you might as well do the same when it comes to the number of dicks. In other words, arguing that only Dawns were needed in the Primordial War is basically the same as arguing that mortals in Exalted actually do have 3 dicks and 7 testicles.
>>93413559We've never fought Primordials in real life, so this does not apply here.
>>934135693 dicks and 7 testicles it is, then. I'll always remember this as the thread where an anon earnestly argued that mortals in Exalted have 3 dicks and 7 testicles and that all claims otherwise are nothing but headcanon.
>>93413569>We've never fought Primordials in real life, so this does not apply here.From the glimpses of it, the war was a standard one, a lot of noncombat roles were mentioned.
>>93413588>3 dicks and 7 testicles it is, then. I'll always remember this as the thread where an anon earnestly argued that mortals in Exalted have 3 dicks and 7 testicles and that all claims otherwise are nothing but headcanonAnon, we know from from the bishop that 7 penises are the most likely.
>>93413601Doesn't Bishop have a lot more than that?
>>93413588We have mortals in real life, but we've never had a primordial war or anything even remotely like it. You've somehow managed to successfully disprove your own logic.
>>93413613We don't have mortals made from the five elements and possessing a two-part soul IRL, though. Also we have fought plenty of wars IRL. If you want to argue that this one bears no resemblance to any other war, then it remains your job to prove it.
>>93413612I may be remembering it wrong but I think 7 was mentioned in the original 3e Abyssal draft.
>>93413633>If you want to argue that this one bears no resemblance to any other war, then it remains your job to prove it.It's pretty quickly proven by looking up what a Primordial is.
>>93413633I don't think that anon ever read one of the books.He may be the same one who claimed the Alchemicals were meant to be noncanon
>>93413640Your grasp of basic logic remains lacking. No, figuring out that there were combatants in the War unlike anything in real life isn't a basis to assume that everything in the War was unlike anything in real life. That just isn't a logical conclusion to make. We know the War had more combatants that Exalts and Primordials, we know there were armies, we know there were generals among the Exalted - none of this is headcanon, by the way, these are some of the small scraps of information we have on the Primordial War. In other words, we know for a fact that there were things about the War that are similar to other wars. Arguing that the presence of Primordials means that there are no commonalities with Primordial War and other wars is kind of like arguing that there are no commonalities whatsoever between, say, the American Civil War and WW1 because the latter had airplanes, or WW2 and modern wars due to the importance of electronic warfare today, or something similar. Pointing out a difference is not a cause to deduce that everything's different.
>>93413693>No, figuring out that there were combatants in the War unlike anything in real life isn't a basis to assume that everything in the War was unlike anything in real lifeIt absolutely is when they're anything like Primordials.Not even reading the rest of your post, your way of thinking is completely nonsensical.
>>93413703You don't know, but the primordials had armies.
>>93413703So explain, using only canon, the specific ways in which the presence of Primordials removed the need for intelligence, logistics, equipment, allies, morale, treatment for the wounded, coordination between combatants and so on. Only canon, mind you.
>>93413725Look up what any of them are and what they're capable of. Real life warfare has nothing to do with defeating them.You're still yet to present anything canon that backs your way of thinking.
>>93413746>Look up what any of them are and what they're capable of.nta but I just checked and them being Primordials and capable of a lot doesn't diminish that they do need... well, pretty much all the things that the anon mentioned. Looks like it's actually just headcanon. Congrats anon, you are the dumbass.
>>93413746>Look up what any of them are and what they're capable of. Real life warfare has nothing to do with defeating themLiving battle fields? With very vulnerable weak points*.*The opening move of the war was the assassination of Sacheverell's fetch soul.
>>93413746I said explain, using only canon. Either try again or shut the fuck up, anon.>You're still yet to present anything canon that backs your way of thinking.Multiple people have done so, and multiple people have also made reasonable and logical inferences based on common sense and the bits of canon we have offering further support for our view. You, meanwhile, have provided literally nothing, no canon, no logic, no counterargument beyond "nuh-uh". If you're going to spend your time engaging with this discussion anyway, anon, why not put even the slightest bit of effort into this? At the moment your logic remains the same old 3-dick logic we've seen so far, completely devoid of any factual basis or, well, any actual logic. Even i you're trolling it'd be good form to put some effort into it.
>>93413785>I said explain, using only canon. Primordials are non-canon now?>Multiple people have done soMultiple people have brought forth their fanfiction. Still waiting on something canon.
>>93413779Assassination by a Lunar at that. But no, it cannot be, only Dawns can contribute!
>>93413792>Primordials are non-canon now?It's canon that fighting them took more than Dawn caste.
>>93413802You can notice that that anon is ignoring hard evidences of the contrary
>>93413802Which makes no sense and isn't justified in the narrative. Evidently the other castes only exist to emulate the average D&D party.
>>93413504
>>93413792You haven't actually explained anything using the Primordials, anon. But okay, let's try something more specific. Why does Adrian being a fuckhuge rive surrounding the world mean that you don't benefit from doctors capable of keeping your wounded warriors fit for battle? Why does Oramus being a weirdo mean that you don't benefit from scholars studying him and figuring out just what the fuck you can do about him? Why does Szoreny being a silver forest mean that you don't benefit from knowing just what the fuck Szoreny's doing and planning?
>>93413824>Which makes no sense and isn't justified in the narrative.Except where it does and that it is. Evidently more than Dawn caste were needed to fight the Primordial War.
>>93413541>Neither do you to the contrarythe existence of the other exalts is evidence. they were made for a reason. you being to stupid to understand doesnt change that.
>>93413834You'd benefit a lot more from having more warriors, and then maybe having a handful of said warriors learn some non-combat support abilities.
>>93413843>>93413839Circular logic. Not an argument.The actual reason is wholly a meta one.
>>93413844>You'd benefit a lot more from having more warriorsExcept for all the ways that Primordials doing Primordial things means more warriors doesn't help when fighting them...
>>93413854And yet here you are yapping about armies or whatever.
>>93413853You, whose argument is 'more fighters is better because more fighters is better' are complaining about circular logic?
>>93413861Armies are made of more than warriors, anon. I've talked about an army of builders being arranged to construct a dam in the thread. I haven't talked about armies being used to face down deva because I don't care as much about that part of the war for all that it would have mattered.You are talking to more than one person.
>>93413882I don't care how many of you there are, you're still presenting nothing but fanfiction that you can't even make logically consistent with itself.Unless you finally start using canon material to justify your position instead of mumbling some incoherent shit about real life armies in this fictional conflict involving unfathomable supernatural beings, we're done here.
>>93413844>You'd benefit a lot more from having more warriors, and then maybe having a handful of said warriors learn some non-combat support abilities.Not really, see Dawns in both 1e and 2e.
>>93413906See >>93413779 and >>93413793
You can notice that he went silent when canon material was presented.
I ignored it the first time because it doesn't prove any of the nonsense you were on about with the armies and support roles.As I said, we're done.
>>93413844A single life-saving doctor can net you more than one additional warrior, in practice. Good intelligence lets you use your warriors more effectively and efficiently, and also helps preserve their lives, which is essentially the same as having more warriors. Same goes for communication, coordination and good leadership. Also why didn't you answer any of the specific questions I asked? >>93413906However, you're not presenting even fanfiction.
>>93413961I wish he just went silent, the way he keeps going on and on without saying anything new and without actually addressing anything other people are saying is getting pretty old. I guess it's not a big deal when the thread's dying anyways. That anon is still somewhat better than the guy earlier ITT who kept talking about how people who disagreed with him should get raped, though.>>93413987>As I said, we're done.We were, in practice, done a lot earlier than this. Your point of view was pretty conclusively proven wrong almost as soon as you made it known. It's a good thing if you've finally realized that there's no point to this, though. Sleep on this, maybe you'll learn something from this discussion and come back with more sensible thoughts.
>>93413987>As I said, we're doneSorry anon, but you didn't roll enough successes with end debate.>>93414007Yes, and dawns ability spread fucks them up, both in combat and outside of it.
>>93414032>starts writing a new fanfic about how this debate went downFunny. Not unexpected though.
>>93414043You never directly quoted anons who posted canon material.
>>93414054No reason to engage imbeciles who proved my point while thinking they won.
>>93414032>That anon is still somewhat better than the guy earlier ITT who kept talking about how people who disagreed with him should get raped, though.Who was he? The closest to this kind of shitposting was the "ragging cunt" anon.
>>93414069How did the assassination proved your point?
>>93414075The guy arguing about plot getting derailed being a big problem. Maybe giving him more (You)s is just encouraging that kind of behavior, but he made some pretty weird rape comments at least here >>93382874, here >>93383112 and here >>93388119
>>93414113Yes, I meant that this kind of posting isn't normal.
>>93414127Oh yeah, you're right. I hope he was just a troll who decided to throw subtlety to the side. If not, that kind of posting kind of seems like a sign of a genuinely unwell mind.
>>93413834Funnily enough, Szoreny wasn't planning jack shit. He didn't even participate in the war. He just sat in one place behind a bunch of illusions the entire time.
>>93414075>>93414113>>93414146I am like 97% sure he's the same guy arguing about how armies don't need any sort of logistics or supportI'm also pretty sure he's the same anon who tries to pick a fight anytime the thread nears it's end
New thread? I don't have any pics
>>93414791Hey, even in that case it's useful to know that your fighty dudes shouldn't waste their time trying to punch Szoreny but should focus on those Primoridals who are up to something.
I like how he completely ignored the part about how Primordials trying to enter Creation in any size bigger then a mountain was essentially suicide by cop; as though there was any other big obvious reason fighting Primordials would be difficult besides their sheer scope.
>>93415683>>93415683>>93415683New thread.
