What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts? Some fantasy settings such as Exalted and Fire Emblem have things like the exaltations and crests designed to set certain people up to be extra powerful and special which explains how they're able to defeat scores of lesser enemies, but not all settings do this which leads to questions of why a high level Fighter is able to defeat so many regular NPC soldiers.
>>93389618>justificationI don't have nor need one.For anything.
>>93389618they arent.
>>93389618Clean living.
>>93389618better genetics.
>>93389618They're just the cream of the crop.If I had to frame it in terms of D&D rot, I would just say that being a bad enough dude to have a player character class just inherently means the person is way more impressive than normal. We're talking a Hercules, a guy who is more prophet than normal priest, a wizard who's actually a genius where most other magic users just LARP as geniuses, etc.They're just better. Born better, more blessed, chosen, etc.The classes aren't necessarily a thing in-universe, but on a meta level having a class is the indicator of someone who's destined to be a hero. The NPCs don't have access to these and are therefore just worse. If they were better, they would be the main characters instead of the players.
>>93389618they are gonna be heros for a reason.its a fucking story about heros. if i wanted average people i might aswell make a setting about daily life as farmer in medieval fantasy europe
>>93389618The rules of the world are just simply different.People who take great risks and do great things will naturally find themselves becoming something a bit more than human. This applies mostly to whatever discipline the person was in. So a farmer who works very hard and manages to feed his community through a drought will find himself naturally becoming an even better farmer, potentially to the point of being somewhat supernaturally gifted at growing crops and raising livestock. An adventurer, through the same process of taking risks in a dungeon or saving a town from monsters, will naturally become a better adventurer. The same applies for every vocation you can think of.The whole of the world knows this and the world takes this into account. Leading to a lot of people with big aspirations and passions. There are people who want to be the best in the world at nearly everything.
>>93389618They are the mental equivalent of cockroaches (specifically they are fractals/matryoshka dolls of their own personality simulating itself) letting them withstand memetic threats that'd dissolve other minds like the elephant's foot lacerated DNA.Doesn't help them that much in direct combat mind, basically it lets them wield "enchanted" gear that's cursed for everyone else (that aforementioned resistance makes them better at procuring it too). Ownership and use of a memewar-grade AI and starship also relies on that. When accordingly rich af throwing merc armies at problems is a doable albeit clumsy solution.
>>93389935Sweetheart, they're Greek.
>>93389618well, npc grunts are still a threat, but the PCs are better because some people are just better and the players get to play thosea rare few npcs are just as strong as the PCs or almost>fighter is able to defeat so many regular NPC soldierswell, at some point the fighter is so well-armored that they can only hit him on a 20 and it most likely wont be a particularly deadly blow, so they'd need manybut what they can do if they are disciplined and suicidal is to all rush him at once and mass grapple himif they use aid-another, they might have a good chance of getting him grappledthen the rest can use aid-another to get him tripped, then while he's tripped and grappled they can start disarming him and making attacks with a higher bonusmost likely a bunch of them will die but if there are a ton of them its their best optionthey could even net him first
>>93389943You don't know what my players are. Don't reply.
>>93389618>leads to questions of why a high level Fighter is able to defeat so many regular NPC soldiers.He's done it for longer and against greater foes. Like, if you've fought a dragon and held out against a horde of orcs, you know and can do things that some fuck with a few weeks or months of sparring with fellow chucklefucks CAN'T. It's like a white belt challenging a multiple black belt. They're totally screwed even with numbers because he has the wealth of experience and usually magical weapons to slap them around.
>>93389618Stop. Stop this. You don't need to explain everything. I don't know how a generation of you retards can be so absolutely over analytical of every detail and yet somehow still fail to understand the most basic points.
>>93389618npcs I run have access to all the same character building tools and resources my players do.
>>93389657>>93389935/thread
It's unironically realistic. Look at history, the vast majority of people accomplish nothing of note while a handful ever become true movers and shakers who are never forgotten, often accomplishing staggering feats at a very young age or even throughout life.
>>93389970Yes you do.
>>93389618Wrong, soldier inherently better
>>93389825But anon don't you know the real heroes are men at arms in full harness armed with pollaxes?>>93390246See? This anon gets it.
>>93390305>full harness + poleaxesounds like a PC fighter to me desu senpai
>>93390339It doesn't sound like a PC fighter to you.
>>93389618This one got it>>93390135But to expand a little:PCs have agency while the average grunts are only there because it's their lot in life, they will fight while they have the advantage or if they are forced to but why would they risk their life when they could just run, fake their death or surrender?Which are valid ways to end fights rather than always to the death. Unless of course you are fighting undead but even then some recollection of life may still shine through to make soulless puppets act out a retreat...
>>93389970>generationJust how stupid are you, exactly? People have always been like this.
>>93390135>great man """theory"""lmao no
>>93390526>People have always been like this.Not to this extent. Players understood that their player characters were going to stand out from the NPCs without needing an in universe justification beyond "because they're the ones doing shit."
>>93390529Yes.
>>93389638
>>93389618>Some fantasy settings such as Exalted and Fire Emblem have things like the exaltations and crests designed to set certain people up to be extra powerful and special which explains how they're able to defeat scores of lesser enemies,That sounds like lazy writing and extremely demoralizing messaging for the audience. Yes I know this is Reddit slop, I like it regardless, fight me.
>>93389618In general, I prefer hard realism cake with fantasy icing on top of it. So mostly this:>>93389644But, when they are, it's usually due to extensive training or hard-won experience. If a Seal Team (or something similar) couldn't do it, it shouldn't matter much whether the PCs have magic instead of combat expertise or not; they should fail too (albeit for setting-appropriate reasons).
>>93389618They fought more fucked up shit than your average soldier
>>93392029Why not just make all the poo people slowly go extinct so then everyone is an special? You don't even need to do a full blown genocide or anything for that.
>>93389618They arn't stronger to begin with. They start at the same base as most NPCs and become heros through their actions, experience and adventuring. Narcassistic capeshit fanatics with their "You are all born the Chosen one!" bollocks can get fucked. If you want to be special, you have to work hard and get lucky, like in real life.
>>93392259>If you want to be special, you have to work hard and get lucky, like in real lifeHard work alone won't get you anywhere. If the stars don't like you odds are you are doomed like the rest.
Some times justify it by the PC being afflicted by a curse who is actually eating the life force of those he kills or he was powerful all along and just remembering stuff after amnesia incident.
>>93389618Why do single fighters defeat so many lesser enemies IRL?Because they fight smarter, whether using some kind of enchanted bullshit, hitting their enemies from miles away with an artillery strike, abusing a choke point, showing up to battle with a well-trained technique where everyone else is just swinging around the first pointed thing they've grabbed...One-man armies are a real thing anon, it's up to the writers or DMs of a setting to portray them in a way that brings joy to read.
>>93392245How is the writer supposed to get off to their weird power fantasy if there's nobody for their self insert Mary Sue to be objectively superior to?
>>93389618Honestly it's whatever my players want. As a DM, I feel it's my job to tell a decent story and challenge the players between combat, puzzle-solving, and on-the-spot roleplaying. If they want to play a power fantasy game where their characters can achieve godhood by killing a progressive series of stronger monsters and challenges then sure. If they want to feel more immersed in the world then I'll sprinkle in powerful NPCs among guards, mercenaries, and even regular townies to simulate people who adventured too and got strong like them.
>>93390533Doing shit doesn't explain killing three orcs and your health suddenly doubling.
>>93392029>lazy writing.I think explaining in universe why a given character has control over fire is better than just saying everyone can but never explaining why they don't.
>>93389618As they either kick more and more ass, silver-tongue their way into things, and/or accomplish generally difficult things, the person in question is more and more of a reflection of a platonic concept; the process is also accelerated if word gets out and people start talking about you. An example:>Bill the handyman looks for work, and finds a shitty gig at a mine, hauling extremely heavy shit>he keeps this up for years upon years>the more he trains and works, the stronger he becomes thanks to being closer and closer to the ideal of a strong-ass motherfucker, and his strength increases more and faster than what can be explained by just muscle building up>as people take notice of Bill hauling boulders bigger than his chest, they become more and more impressed>this accelerates the process because more and more people think Bill is the quintessential strongman, and their belief is reflected back upon reality>years pass, and now Bill can pull trees out like they're weeds and throw people like darts, all while other guys talk about hisThe fact that this works for everyone has funny repercussions on society.
>>93389618I hate how almost all games skirt around the issue. They're too pussy to give a general explanation. And then when the character is "high level" (which is also unexplained), they have a lot of HP and can survive falling from great heights no matter the circumstances. Yet the book tries to tell you HP is a mix of the experienced character's "grit" and "luck", when it clearly can't be the case if you bother to look at how the mechanics play out.
I run WFRP, they aren't until they earn it, but it's more likely they'll go down screaming for help under a swarm of skavenslaves.
>>93389618if PCs start off stronger than a grunt, you're probably playing a shitty game
>>93393460Barbarians of Lemuria and its relatives avoid this by explicitly going 'you're a pulp hero, and you're already an experienced badass,' and the mechanics actually reflecting that.Though it's extremely simple to play someone still scaling the ranks of badassery with some rules massages, if that's what your group wants.
>>93390529Great man fact
>>93392029>That sounds like lazy writing and extremely demoralizing messaging for the audiencYou're retarded.
>>93389618It's my setting, I don't need to justify shit.
>>93389618>What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts?Oncr again, OSR has the answer. They aren't. They are rolled with 3d6 like every other commoner would be. They have fighter training due to being militia. Then they go into a dungeon where most of them die. The strong have a greater chance of surviving but not always. They level up, and that's why they are stringer. Experience. But many of them do not survive, and that is why the ones that do are special.
>>93389618>What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts?all pcs were ordinary, non special humans that got magically frozen by one of their friends for hundreds of years. Said friend died shortly after, the frozen bodies were pretty much stashed away by dubious individuals and forgotten by the world at large.During their time frozen they pretty much commuted with creepy, powerful shit.They aren't all that more powerful than normal NPCs, but they're still ~different~.
>>93392029Your genetics determine everything about you and some people are better than others.
>>93392749spotted the poo person lmao
>>93392259Nah, you're born the chosen one or you never matter, stay furious
>>93392896Doesn't need to be explained, moron.
>>93393460It doesn't need to be explained, retard
>>93394422Being gaslit into thinking mudcore and throwing away Fighter Fighterson I-VI so that you can play Fighter Fighterson VII are fun is not an answer.
>>93394324False.
>>93394923Only if you're playing a gonzo setting instead of anything cohesive
>>93394973False.
>>93394865>>93394898this marks the line where a thread goes to shitshort baity one-liners mods are pussies who dont do their jobs!
>>93395131I'm right, faggot.
>>93392029This is why I always include at least flintlock weaponry and cannons in my setting. Helps close the gap between learned magic users and random everyday people in terms of strength. 10 guys with muskets could easily take down the PC party.
>>93389618>this is a soldier>sheLOL, no.
>>93395510well, lizardwomen dont bear children or breastfeed or any of that shit; they just lay eggsprobably almost indistinguishable from a male
>>93395510Your existence is LOL
>>93389618Everyone has their own justification: Divine lineage, a treasure trove of magical trinkets, old age and decades of experience in a profession where very few people survive the first five years, being the last disciple of a lineage of supernatural martial artists, possession of a superpowered magical weapon that hates you but hates your enemies more, practicing the dark art of bathing in dragon's blood and supping on demon marrow and surviving. >Why can't all NPCs do that, then?They can. So long as a person knows the right methods and is willing to discard their humanity or drastically reduce their own lifespan, they can become powerful. It's just that discarding your humanity usually turns you into one of the monsters the PCs fight and you never know whether you're reducing your lifespan to a few years or a few seconds. Surpassing the filter is PCs and important NPCs. Random mooks and normal people either don't know what to do or die trying to do it.
>>93396218>high powered garbageIt still goes in the trash
>>93389618>your settingThe answer will only come to you when you touch brass, retard. Preferably to your temple.
>>93389825>disgusting power fantasy playerSickening. I only run disempowering grimdark systems for people who need an escape for Winning TOO MUCH all the time and want to simulate the experience of failure. It has way better perks.
>>93394404You could replace any of those people and nothing would change in any real way. Long-running dynamics and material conditions >>>>>> "great man theory"
>>93395510Female Reptiles are usually larger than their male counterparts.
>>93396763Let's replace every individual who made a technological discovery. Do they all still happen?
>>93396913most of them would be made by someone else, just somewhat later
>>93389618>unarmored snout>unarmored tailI shiggy diggy
>>93396913Definitely. The same discoveries have been (and still frequently are) discovered independently by people thousands of miles apart. We all live in the same universe, it's not like, say, the Curie couple had some unique ability that allowed them (and only them) to perceive radium; they noticed that the radioacitivity in the pechblenda ore didn't match the amount of uranium on it and went to check if there was something else there. As long as the pechblenda ore, the ability to measure radioactivity and the extraction of uranium were all present, someone would have found out about radium.
>>93389618More training and experience.More cyberware tolerance.More magical talent.More fate points.More money.
>>93389618The PCs are special because they're cute enough that the DMPC has chosen to be their sugar daddy and supply them with equipment, training, lodging, and esoteric power in return for a kiss on the cheek.
>>93396585Suck shit, faggot
>>93389618> What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts? They aren‘t
>>93389618>What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts?They're not. Why should they be?They're just people, like everyone else.
>>93389638This
>What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts?High risk = high reward = high target for other prospectives. Basically highlander rules. Most people prefer to keep their heads (down).
>>93390135>the vast majority of people accomplish nothing of noteNapoleon did not win his victories single-handedly.
>>93396218I like this, anon, it sounds like a very tempting tradeoff that might really go to shit if you're not careful (even something like losing years off your life for single-minded training is a shitty thing)
>>93398051Napoleon got lucky once and snowballed from there. Well, I guess you could say he got lucky twice, because his rise to power had such immaculate timing.
>>93398118No commander in history has won their battles single-handedly.
>>93398118>>93398143>>93398051He's statistically the best general in history.
>>93398163And yet he required 600,000 other men for his victories.
My guy only picks fights with the weak.
>>93390246Soldiers are designed to fight other soldiers, not dragons or monsters.
>>93398241Horses are monsters.
>>93396926>>93397101>if I zoom out and abstract as hard as possible I can pretend anything is the same as anything else regardless of time span or context! You can simultaneously acknowledge that there are differences between people that are more or less congruent with various contextual factors like geography, socioeconomic support (or lack there of), etcetc. and realize that while many great leaders or innovative thinkers who had significant impact on the world around them were made of a combination of factors, some of which are necessarily unique to them and their circumstances, without falling into whatever hysterical phobia you have of being cancelled or some shit. >tl;dr someone's dick would have eventually discovered your mom's holes but the result that is your pathetic excuse for being is specific
>>93398182>large scale things need large numbers No shiiiittttt? Weird. Good thing any of those 600000 other men could have been general and it would have been exactly the same. You fucking idiot.
>>93398407>"Every soldier carries a Marshal's baton in his knapsack" -NapoleonSo yes, according to Napoleon himself, the other men could've been general and it would've been the same.
>>93398143Well, duh, if you're winning single-handedly you're not a commander, because you didn't command anyone.
>>93398241Soldiers are designed to fight whatever they expect the enemy to field. In our world that's soldiers and vehicles. In world with monsters, it would include monsters.
>>93398502Why would the enemy field monsters? You don't see the enemy fielding moose and bears in modern combat. Hell, even elephants were a rare sight.
IRL is very limited and boring, with the vast majority of success and failure of both individuals and societies being based on repeated enforcement and physical or environmental factors. Fantasy allows for a more inspiring and hopeful world, where personal willpower and inner virtue can translate to real growth and personal power that is not demiurgical in nature.
>>93398525In world with monsters, why wouldn't they? As long as they can be steered in the general direction of where you want to cause the harm, it's a viable asset. Besides, dogs are used until present day, horses were used up to WW2. Sure, tank is better than elephant, but when you don't have tanks, elephant is worth consideration.
>>93389618They actually try. Everyone else at low levels is a slacker, the PCs are the exceptional ones that put in the real effort.
>>93396763So just any Greek king would have conquered almost the entire known world and Alexander wasn't special? Despite there being thousands of Greek nobles with big armies before and after him?:
>>93392029Why should children's lit be farcically empowering?
>>93395483Only if the PC party are a bunch of mooks that would lose to a bunch of ogres or something. By any mid level D&D (or GURPS or comparable system) campaign your PC party is moving too fast and has too much strength to be beaten by some peasants with primative muskets.
>>93398428Do you legit think that saying an army is comprised of parts working together as a whole is synonymous with saying all the parts are interchangeable? Are you that fucking dumb? You can be. I wouldn't be surprised at this point.
This is what I really hate:Bob the Guardsman stats: 18 STR, 16 DEX, 18 CON, 14 INT, 14 WIS, 16 CHAPC stats (legendary dragon slaying hero): 10 STR, 20 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 18 WIS, 14 CHA
>>93389618Simply built different
>>93398837How about this?Level 1 mundane human PC: 18 STRLevel 5 ogre that's several times bigger than him: 20 STR
>>93398837The guardsmen has been fighting for decades. The PC just started adventuring.
>>93399167the ogre does have the size bonus though, and more hp
>>93398837You see that a lot in high level campaigns that still want to use urban settings. Normally fanmade. So you get silly stuff like this.
>>93398626NTA but with the arc of history someone would of done something similar to him, definitely not in the same exact way or with the same exact outcome but their would of been a Alexander type figure.One I like to bring up is Justinian. The state of the Eastern Empire was one in that an ambitious educated man with the means and will was always going to step in and stabilize it, the amount of resources left in the empire and the seat of power enables that even if it took say another generation. Would that figure just like Justinian? No, he would of had his own set of priorities, upbringing, and social circle, but their would of been a reformation movement of some sort regardless.Great Men require The Moment just as much as The Moment Requires great men, but potential Great Men are born every day. Not everyone or even most people but, especially in retrospect history has a shape and its one that finds figures to fill its roles.
>>93399234Someone post the Demi-God tier Gang Leader form that Pathfinder Adventure.
>>93399320I was trying to find that one and this was all I could stumble across easily.
>>93399320just look at kingmakermonkeys with typewriters
>>93399320How about this ordinary, chubby prison warden being tougher than ancient dragons?
>>93399492with that fashion sense I'd buy it.
>>93389618>What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts?For the most part they aren't, but given enough time they can hone their skills enough that they can eventually be on par with master swordsmen or arch mages.
>50 replies of "They aren't!"no wonder you fuckers cant get games
>>93392245Exaltations are limited, you can only ever have a few hundred of each type of Exalt at a time. >>93392245Exalted is basically the first half of that image though. Dragonblooded are the "Specials" as in they're the upper class with power both of status and magic by birthright, but the PCs are generally "Poo People" whose mortal feats or ways of life impressed the Gods so much they got gifted with Exaltation.
>>93397101>>93396913Blue LEDs, the foundation for most consumer electronics in use today, invented by Shuji Nakamura who had a very eclectic set of skills and was stubborn enough to follow through with what he alone thought what could make a blue LED, despite being ridiculed for trying what was declared impossible by the science of the time. The solution he came up with was extremely complicated and multidisciplinary approach, required new materials he invented along with the machinery to make these new materials, which he also made himself. Got 10,000 yen bonus for what was a 100 billion dollar invention, mostly because his boss wanted to fire him for wasting money for years on something impossible. Without him we'd still be using CRTs.
>>93389618I don't start them at level 1 if they're meant to be special.
>>93398602>In world with monsters, why wouldn't they?Same reason we don't regularly field fucking bears, you fucking mongoloid.
>>93389618Gameplay-story segregation No one considers the lore implications of Sole Survivor being capable of taking down every faction singlehandedly, because lore wis it's not a thingI don't wanna run some simulation system not I wanna play in a setting where levels are a thing. My high level fighter is just a very skilled human, but in universe it's understood he is perfectly mortal
>>93389618>What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts?They aren't stronger, at least on the early levels
>>93389618>What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts?Are they? I mean they can be from the start or eventually get there through character growth but that isn't the default assumption.>Inb4 this is OBVIOUSLY about d&d 5E so of course PCs are ALWAYS better than npcI know, don't care. If you want system specific replies fucking specify the game in question. That said by D&D assumptions PC classes are Elite ones, a character in order to qualify for one of them has to be inherently talented so, there you have it, pc are better because they are special. Now fuck off.
>>93401471because they're actually useless and vulnerable on the battlefield and very hard to capture/train/transport?a few dudes with spears can kill a bear ezan arrow volley toopeople used to go bear hunting for sport
>>93399492>Armor Class 41>450 HPMathfinder is a fucking joke
here's some basic human soldiers from my settinghuman infantrywarrior 18 hp17 AC (+2 shield, +5 armor)longsword +4 (1d8+2)javelin +1 (1d6+2)F+3, R+0, W-1str 14, dex 11, con 12, int 10, wis 8, cha 8toughness, longsword focusintimidate +3, craft +4, listen +1, spot +1chainmail, heavy shield (round), longsword, x2 javelinsLNhuman cavalierwarrior 18 hp17 AC (+2 shield, +5 armor)lance +4 (1d8+2)javelin +1 (1d6+2)F+3, R+0, W-1str 14, dex 11, con 12, int 10, wis 8, cha 8toughness, lance focusintimidate +3, handle animal +3, ride +4chainmail, heavy shield (kite), lance, longsword, x2 javelins, light warhorse/military saddle/chain shirt bardingLNhuman archerwarrior 18 hp16 (+1 dex, +1 shield, +4 armor)longbow +3 (1d8+1)shortsword +2 (1d6+1)F+3, R+1, W-1str 13, dex 12, con 12, int 10, wis 8, cha 8 toughness, longbow focusintimidate +3, craft +4, listen +1, spot +1chainshirt, buckler, mty comp longbow (+1), x20 arrows, shortswordLNhuman pikemanknight-errant 18 hp16 AC (+1 dex, +5 armor)guisarme +4 (2d4+3), trip +2javelin +2 (1d6+2)spiked gauntlet +3 (1d4+2)bravery +1F+2, R+1, W-1 (+0)str 14, dex 12, con 11, int 10, wis 8, cha 8combat reflexes, guisarme focus, toughness balance -2, heal +1, intimidate +3, craft +4, listen +1, spot +1, survival +3chainmail, guisarme, x2 javelins, spiked gauntletLN(had to make these guys fighters, but its a small change)
>>93406828now here's a PC fighter at 1st levelVolkar DeepstoneLG Dwarf Fighter 113 hp20ft18 AC (+4 shield, +4 armor)Maul +2 (1d10+2)Javelin -1 (1d6+2)Bravery +1F+5, R+0, W+0 (+1), +2 saves vs magic and poisonStr 15, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 8Armor 7, Climb 1, Intimidate 3, Jump -5, Weapon 7>tower shield penalties not addedMaul Focus, Endurance (includes die hard; goes to -con score)Maul, Tower Shield, Scale Mail, Spiked Gauntlet, x3 Javelins, Handaxeif he had chainmail, he'd have 19 ACSo you can see he's better, but not by too much.
>>93389618The beauty of Cyberpunk is that you don't need to adhere to heroic PC bullshit. I build the average mook guard the same way I'd build a Solo PC and my players have to get clever or lucky to deal with it.
>>93399877*54
>>93394980True, and objectively so.
>>93399492This is just a One Piece character.
>>93399877You're either a retarded nogames or terminally DnDbrained.
>>93389644
>>93412158based bandwagon circlejerk enjoyer
>>93399492what kind of fucking prison does this guy preside over?
>>93412233Impel Down
>>93389618They're just, to use a zoomerism, "built different"There is an intangible, psuedo-mystical property that adventurers exude in their posture, their movements, the look in their eye, the weight of their voice, etc as they level up. A goblin can see level 1 adventurers and think to take them on, and see the same adventurers, with the same gear, at level 5 and think better of it. Even wild animals can see it, which explains why in my games the players don't have to deal with as many random encounters as they level up."XP" in my setting is a real, tangible universal force that most beings can recognize but can't always classify.
>>93399492>the TRUE local lordLord Guirden-sama.....
>>93394898If this was true you'd be the first against the wall. Be thankful humans have unlimited potential for growth and change.
>>93398837I hate faggots who think stats are all that matter.
they use sword
>>93392896>and your health suddenly doubling.Because the game elements like HP and shit like that are meant to be abstractions for the sake of gameplay. You're not supposed to look at them as in universe concepts. Your barbarian warrior is stronger than some podunk farmer because he's an experienced fighter not because he has DOUBLE THE HEALTH POINTS. Crom's teeth. This retard shit is the exact problem. You're all so brain rotted you can't seperate the diegetic and nondiegetic. All this shit exists so the game can function. There doesn't need to be an explanation beyond that.
>>93417589NTA but a better abstraction should be used if so many people take issue with it.And being an experienced fighter doesn't account for shit when HP is also reduced by falling from heights, drowning, diseases, poisons, being on fire, mental trauma etc. Why does fighting a lot make you able to sit in a fire for a minute with no consequences? This is something that can realistically happen in the game world and no amount of abstraction can dismiss it.Surely there are games that solved this better.
>>93418047>NTA but a better abstraction should be used if so many people take issue with it.Nobody took issue with it for decades till you retards showed up.
>>93389618What the fuck is that sword on the right
>>93398163He lost. Suvorov didn't.
>>93389618I use a grotesque hodgepodge of 4e, birthright, and osr.all the pcs are ancient heroes summoned from the past with random race/class combinations, and when one dies, a new one is summonedthere's a plot reason that only 5 can exist in the present day at a time.
>>93418316Someone needs to save you from yourselves.
>>93417589now you understand why people didn't like 4e, they can't separate gameplay from roleplay
>>93418658Yes, me and my ability to process information are clearly the problem. >>93418681My parents where right, video games will rot your brain.
>>93389618>What's your setting's justification for why the PC's are so much stronger than your typical NPC grunts?they aren't
>>93418316Yes we did take issue with it. It was only ever good in vidya.
>>93418695>Yes, me and my ability to process information are clearly the problem.Yes.
>>93389618For most games, PCs are just high-power freaks of nature like John Wick and Indiana Jones.But I really like the take I saw somewhere on rpg.net ages ago that adventurers gradually absorb too much magic from old dungeons (that old unstable magic also being where gamey shit like gelatinous cubes and mimics come from) and gradually turn into literal freaks who look human(oid) on the surface but are superhuman weirdos.
>>93420041Also, to go with that, the reason that dungeons are like that and not other places is that magic in true sunlight or moonlight gradually degrades (over the course of centuries-plus), so the only places where leftover magic lasts long enough to truly go weird have to be underground where natural sunlight never touches it.
>>93418681Which is odd in the context of this line of discussion, since the power curve of 4e is far, far flatter than the adjacent editions of D&D. You're a trained whatever at level 1- an experienced soldier, a studied wizard, etc, and this is at least somewhat represented.>>93396585>le high power is... le bad!>le low power is also... le bad!trolling is a dying art and you're not the one to recover it
>>93420404>le low power is also... le bad!Nope. That's how you're supposed to play. The closer to being regular humans, the better.
The answer is divine favor from God, earned through piety and adherence to dogma. Alternatively, much like in real life, the eugenic few reproduce to make PC fighters, and the dysgenic many reproduce to make the average American visitor to Walmart.
>>93389796>If I had to frame it in terms of D&D rot,Everyone should have at least a few levels, they're so easy to get. Kids can spend their summers camping and hunting and get a few levels by mid-teens. It's valuable that you'd have to be stupid not to. The extra HP lets you sleep off injuries that would have killed you. Some feats like lucky and bardic inspiration are massively useful in day to day life.
>>93427411Classes are not an inherent part of the world, they're an abstraction that marks the players as more than normal.There's no peasant boy that wakes up and decided "I should take a few levels in Druid to help my dad around the farm".Applying mechanical systems like classes to the way people within the world think is a huge, HUGE error that will make your shit bland because essentially what you'd be building a world that functions based on the same rules as a sandbox MMO.The mechanics the plyers have access to are not actually legitimate facets of the world, it's just a means of streamlining our ability to interface with it in a gamified fashion.
>>93419768VIDYA TOOK IT FROM TABLETOP IN THE FIRST PLACE YOU RETARD
>>93389618You don't know anything about my setting or my player characters.
>>93392213magic can do things a seal team can't actually
>>93392259heh, I remember being twelve
>>93394422cringe
>>93395483protection from missiles, gg
>>93396585low power goes in the trash actually
>>93396763Nope, individual will to power is all that matters, slave
>>93397101Curie was the chosen one
>>93398051all of them.
>>93398241soldier better
>>93398397nope it's all genetics and soul quality
>>93398525the enemy IS monsters you drooling retard
>>93406828jesus dnd is so bad
>>93408071False.
>>93417105Lol slave mentality. That's why I'm inherently superior to you.
>>93418047No. The abstraction is fine. Most people have incorrect opinions. They must be instructed in what is right by their betters.
>>93418658Incorrect. It is you who are inferior.
>>93419768No you didn't.
>>93422253False.
>>93430096And made it actually good
>>93394927that literally doesn't happen if your GM isn't also obsessed with the mudcore meme. It sucks at level one but a smart party will stack the deck to where they never fight fair and by the time you hit level 3, B/X is more comparable to the power scaling of other D&D low-level games. In some ways you are actually more powerful because most of what you are fighting are 1 HD bandits and monstrous humanoids with maybe a 5 HD commander of said bandits and humanoids.
>>93417511>using a formation pike in 1v1 combatman had it coming.
>>93430536What do you mean, stack the deck? The DM has infinite monsters and he can assign them any abilities he wants. If he wants you to die, you will. Everything you "plan" only works if he decides it does.
Because they're the main characters of a story I made up and I'm not some 95 IQ trog who thinks TWISTS are amazing commentary.
>>93430236You court death, fall upon your face and kowtow and I may consider dismembering you quickly for spitting upon the eternal dao in such a way
>>93434126Nope, I'm better.
>>93417511Did he cast a paralysis spell upon touching the spear?
>>93389970This image gets posted a lot around here but just not I noticed that by the look the dragon's in it looks like the elf did most of the work here
>>93427782The problem is classes *aren't* entirely abstract to the game world. A wizard and a warlock getting their magic from different sources isn't the same as HP being a number.Maybe you don't frame it in levels but who's to say the peasant boy doesn't go ask the local druid how to help on the farm better?
>>93439626The point is that they're abstractions for players based on broad categories.You can play a wizard as a generic wizard, or you could play a wizard as a shaman, or an ascetic who wants to achieve enlightenment through knowledge. In the majority of these cases, the individual in question wouldn't even call themselves a wizard.The classes just represent skillsets to set you up with a heroic archetype. They are not tangible existences that actually exist in the world.For example, the local druid the peasant boy goes to. Does he LITERALLY have levels in the druid class? No. Hell, he might not even be a spellcaster, he might just be a wise man who lives in the world.TLFR my point is that classes are for the players, not for the setting. Thinking in a frame of mind where the player classes are just a thing that exists for everyone is going to lead you down strange and foolish roads, and your setting is going to turn out like a fucking MMO.
>>93389618Calculated backstory downtime. Grueling XP builds into gradual and painful sentience is the norm for all, but PCs get a lazy bonus. And yes, that means that even the lowest and meanest of beings is borne via esoteric and complex math table gematria. Lo and behold the lowly Stank-vine, Earl. After careful use of its one action per 8 hours for the last two years, it has attained perfection in (Con) Skill: Biochemical Permeation. Now it rules a spacious 12 inches of the surrounding dirt…not quite long enough to trigger OP’s gag reflex, sadly.
>>93389618Technically, they aren't. If it feels like they are, it's probably because the person they're fighting either isn't as used to combat as they are or is old/young and is weaker because of it. But on a more mystical not, player characters are also touched by a specific god. He doesn't need them to win or lose, he's just banking on their actions destabilizing a set in stone fate of the world. It would be nice if they won, but if their deaths still accomplish change, it's sort of a win. He's trying to prevent the end of all things. His touch gives them the ability to change predetermined outcomes and bring random chance into combat and world interactions. He's basically dice rolling as a god.
>>93427411I haven't played D&D since 3rd edition, but at least back then were were a set of classes for NPCs. You had Commoner (useless), Warriors (Fighters), Acolytes (Casters), Experts (Skillmonkeys), Nobles (diplomancers), and if you were using psionics, Adepts. They were utter shit relative to player character classes, with the primary caster (Acolyte) capping out at level 4 spells. But if you consider the game like an RTS, they are the rank and file faceless mooks that the field is covered with. Having a PC class like Barbarian or Wizard means the character is a unique named Hero Unit you can only have one of on the field at a time.Regular unremarkable nobodies can and do have multiple levels, but they're in NPC classes that scale at less than half the rate of PC classes.
>>93389618They aren't, but not for the reason you think: Most people in my universe are fairly badass, they just can't be asked to do anything.
>>93389638Thread should've ended hear
>>93401471>doesn’t realize why every invasion of Russia failsHahaha. Is true, comrade friend. Who would for to fields the mighty invincibles bears? Is for jokes and not for games or history. I for sure to like many cheezeburgahs for the army but is too many cats, you know? Much glory for proletariat diminishing clown food!
>>93389618Because typically they're working in backwater villages or the edge of civilization. They're bringing advanced skills and abilities out where they are needed. One thing that REALLY blows my player's minds is that in the "big city" where their boss gave them the job, there are plenty of powerful wizards and the guard has means of dealing with them. Specifically "oh shit, go get the military, we have a rogue piece of artilary going crazy in town!". When I was younger I didn't understand that some people just want a power-tripping fantasy where there's no real risk to their character. They just want to "go all in" and win the gamble. Even though there's really no gamble. They just want to pretend to win for once. And you know? That sounds like a fun game. For them. To play elsewhere. Here in BigCity, the anti-mage-masher breaks the anti-magic shell chalk and proceeds to put you in chains for your crimes against the city. No one gives a fuck that you're lvl 5 now and can cast fireball.
>>93439714>not having a correspondence between NPC traits and PC traitsThe brainrot is real. Or you could just distribute class-arrays everywhere, so long as they’re compact enough. Class arrays are inherently permission-based, so the requisite foundation is normally lacking. Lacking a contrast with the (often absent) baseline NPC methods is an awful void for comparison with PCs.
>>93418611Suvorov spent most of his career fighting T*rks or worse, P*les. Giving him the W is like giving the gardener an undefeated record for squashing armies of worms.
>>93389618They're just freaks, that's all. Born tougher than the rest. Pure genetic luck.
>>93417511motherfucker, a pike is not the same as a spear, the pike existed entirely for formation fighting and "push of pikes". a halberd, poleaxe, billhook, or fuck, even just a plain ass 7 foot spear would be at a large advantage to a swordsman.see also, an ahlspiess, the man to man fighting spear for wall breachers, its pretty sick, you cant even effectively go for the hands against these.
>>93389618Why the fuck do I need to bake the justification into the setting? Some people have it better than other people, that's a universal concept. The players should be explaining why their own character isn't some shitty nobody, not me
>>93399492People always start shit over this one but I refuse to believe there isn't any context that makes this make more sense. I know the city that this adventure path takes place in is basically the single biggest and most powerful city in an extremely high magic setting, so my assumption is that the jail he's the warden of has to be some kind of superjail or something.
>>93399492He's kinda bad, tho
>>93412233>>93448862>>93448862The Black Whale, a prison designed to hold criminals that break the law within Absalom, the city at the center of the world and former home to the god of humanity. He presides over powerful people taken into custody in one of the most dangerous prisons in the world. This is a city that holds the Starstone Cathedral, where aspirants from across the world come and try their luck and power at becoming a literal god. A city filled with adventurers of every type and power level. Its current ruler is a level 19 fighter, who happens to get framed for a crime and then arrested and placed within the Black Whale.>Built to house the most dangerous prisoners in Absalom, the Black Whale is a floating prison made of six ships chained to razor sharp reefs in the Flotsam Graveyard on the perimeter of Absalom’s harbor. None of the ships are seaworthy anymore, hollowed out and restructured to better accommodate prison cells. >In addition to floating in the waters of Absalom’s harbor, the Black Whale is also magically attuned to the realm of Stormholt, a demiplane that the sea witch Myrna Rath created so that she could feast on the nightmares of half-drowned sailors. Under normal circumstances, the only way to reach Stormholt is aboard a sinking ship near the Isle of Kortos, which the hungry demiplane occasionally pulls below the waves and into Myrna’s domain. The demiplane appears as an ocean filled with floating shipwrecks that stretch to the horizon in every direction.>Characters looking out to sea from the Black Whale see only the storm-tossed waters and the rainy skies of Stormholt. >>93411236Thats what NPCs at high levels basically are. Pathfinder takes the xp system and doesn't segregate it to only PCs like many versions of D&D, so NPCs who deal with great challenges often, like running a prison for powerful people, will naturally be highly powered. The setting isnt mudhuts and mudfarmers struggling in medieval europe.
