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>>93391566
Help /ktg/, I'm going up against Tau Pathfinders tomorrow and all I have are the Krieg Veteran Guardsmen (2 boxes built so that I have one of everything and a few doubles).
Never played against this team before, but I've heard tell of their power. How do I not get utterly creamed?

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New players trying kill team for a little weekend brawl. Kroot against compendium guard, orks and necrons. We played both space hulk rules and "normal" terrain. Tricky to get these boards right. Necrons OP?

Does anyone have the Killteam Termination PDF?

>>93391566

You just know...

>>93392475
Board looks okay, but deployment doesn't
Necrons in a full-blown firefight against lasguns are going to win because their guns one-shot while lasguns deal zero damage. Deploying heavily in engage, without hiding behind LoS-breaking cover, as you've done there forces that firefight on turn 1, which is a losing trade for the guard player.
It's a simple logic sequence - whoever is worse at straight trading will want to deploy more in conceal to deny those trades, which makes the stronger player conceal more to avoid being played into a trap while exposed. Eventually all but a gunner or two on each side will be deployed in conceal (gunners which tend to stay out of LoS for the entire first turn anyways due to threats, acting more as deterrents) and you'll find most games have no kills on T1. T2 is the actual outbreak of the firefight as operatives need to contest objectives that are too close to enemy operatives.
The only case where you'll see more deployed in engage is against teams like cult or gellerpox that have no long-range shooting, meaning there's zero risk when deploying in engage.

>>93392505
I posted it in a thread a few threads back. Go hunting, it is there somewhere.

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>>93392310
Don't try to outshoot them, you'll lose. Stay concealed, keep in cover, work the objectives. Vet guard tac ops and security are about board control, control the board. Get sarge to give the speed up order and Comms to relay it to the whole team. Into the breach ploy for free dashes straight off the bat and maybe take inflitrate on the scouting step to use the plasma gun if a particularly juicy target exposed itself, just be aware it's likely going to be a trade off as soon as the gunner is a valid target for shooting. The other option is fortify for more cover, don't bother with recon as you'll be getting dashed from into the breach, which only work when you are in your deployment zone and a recon would take you out of it. You don't really care about first turning point initiative, you want to hide and move as far forward as possible. The sniper and spotter can shoot from concealed and the spotter can combo to target concealed options, start taking out valuable targets.

I'd recommend going through the pathfinder team on Wahapedia. You don't need to memorise it but read through it to see what horrible abilities they have, tag these are high priority targets. Grenades, counts as engaged, blast weapons, etc.

>>93385224
You did good. It's great value (for GW)
I bought 2 of them myself

>>93392572
Where can I access archived threads?

>>93391566
>TQ
That's a terrible question. A TQ is supposed to encourage conversation, asking when we are getting a specific team is just pure speculation. A better question is what would a SoS team LOOK like?

Anti psyker is a bit niche in KT. So a mechanic that represents how unpleasant it is to be around blanks would be good. -1 attacks and WS/BS, Take a mortal wound at the end of the turning point whilst within square on a SoS, disallow rerolls of attack or defence, these all have precedence. Maybe even some kind of score like with HotA pain tokens or Brood Brother Crossfire where parts of your opponents souls are being chipped away and you can use them for... something. Even a lopsided team like Gellerpox could feature a culexus at the centre, like the Patriarch or Technomancer are centrepieces to their respective teams.

>>93392721
And bwfore you say it, the archuve tab in the catalog doesn't have aby older KTG threads anymore.

Captcha: 888K

How do you play Blades of Khaine? I bought their KT box but once I sat down on the table to play them I realized that I couldn't even play 2/3rds of my Tac Ops before I dip into other boxes to get Banshee and maybe Dire Avengers. Scorpions also seemed pretty mediocre in melee despite being pretty melee focused. Do I really have to get other aspect models to make this team function or should I just cut my losses and get a different Aeldari KT?

>>93392788

I played against them with my vet guard recently, it was a pretty easy game all things considered. Banshees are scary but easy to kill. Scorpions are mediocre. Idk seemed like a lot of complicated rules going on that I didn't understand, 3 APL surprised me a few times with all the stuff they can do, and the gunners were good. I just focused fire on the banshees and killed them before they could score any VPs for the tac op that requires them to do damage with all three different unit types, and out activated them to score on primaries. Maybe they're good in the right hands but this player was really experienced with them and I've played fewer than ten games of KT in my life, total.

I dunno I personally have zero interest in playing them, if there's another team that speaks to you I would cut your losses I think

What's up with everyone in the kill team scene in my area being the absolute nicest people I've ever met? I have never found a group of hobbyists more excited to share their knowledge and time, play games, teach others, buy each other drinks/food.. Everyone is just a total bro and has a cult like enthusiasm for the game. I used to play RPGs and MTG so this is my first wargame, maybe that's what I'm feeling? But the edgy, sweaty, foul-smelling weirdos I would meet playing other games in my area seem to be totally absent? Not only is everyone super nice but also seemingly well-adjusted too? They seem like they know what soap is, have jobs, skew towards a bit older (early to mid 30s os average I think) than the d&d crowd.. shit I'm getting older too, I'm glad I found this game.

>>93392721
>>93392735
https://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/text/%2Fktg%2F/

>>93392722

How many KTs even have psykers? Warpcoven, legionaries, a handful of others.. not great. I would love to see a mechanic that prevents enemy operatives from modifying the APL of friendly operatives, something along those lines. Almost every team has an operative for doing that.

>>93392722

On an unrelated note I am so hungry for more lopsided teams. The first team I got really excited for was compendium CSM because of the cultist option. It's just so fun and so interesting to have a mini-horde of chaff models you can throw around the map to open doors, grab VPs, and tie up your opponent, while you have a couple of elite models to win you the game when your chaff inevitably gets wiped by the end of TP2.

>>93392864
I love Aeldari and sneaky/agile melee warriors is something my group lacks so it was a void I was happy to fill in, but the initial result gave me whiplash, something that hasn't happened in my (admittedly fresh) experience playing the game.

I looked at the Harlequin KT stats and they seem promising so I'll think about it. I'm new/inexperienced at the hobby and not the best painter so I'm slightly afraid of not doing the Harlequins justice.

>>93392788
Play Corsairs. They are crazy fun, reasonably strong, have interesting ploys and tac ops, unique(ish) mechanics and you only need a single box to build all specialists. Magnetise the felarch and gunner and you are away.

I dislike the Blades of Khaine team as you do need to buy other aspects to make them really viable. As a little thinking exercise I worked out you'd need four different boxes to build a certain team (six banshees, a scorpion, an avenger). Which is the second biggest number of boxes in KT. I also thought their ploys and tac ops were underwhelming, and so much requires multiple aspects like you said. It's just, meh.

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>>93392884
I repeatedly tell anyone who I teach in my local scene that 40k is for children and Kill Team is for the thinking man. There is nuance to the game, similar to chess or go. Because you have a mostly fixed team with no list building, teams are balanced against one another and operatives are activated in turn you don't get the alpha strike "my team is better than your team" crowd. I love teaching people how to play, and unless I'm playing competitively I'll help my opponent by pointing things out.

A fun moment in a recent game, my opponent had clearly lost but was having so much fun that we couldn't help but love the image. Full on supercharged shot straight into his face, I think all hit and a crit, plus his single save failed. He exploded, and we both cheered.

>>93392891
I like it, I'm just wondering how effective that would be.

>>93392788
The optimal loadout for the team seems to have been determined to be roughly 2DA, 3SS, 3HB. However, I'm not sure how much worse it is going monoaspect; the team does have some features to mitigate the drawbacks of losing model variety. It shouldn't be hopeless.
Overall the team is just hard to play. If your models are not in control of the situation, able to pick their targets, and on the offense, most of their abilities are just not useable and the team loses all momentum.

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>>93392722
you want a better TQ, next time make a new thread before the old one falls off the board. I brought back the dead thread, I get to pick the TQ, and I want to talk about Sisters

>>93392891
Full blown psykers, not many. But psychic actions? Corsairs, Legionaries, Harlequins, Nemesis Dread Claw, Brood Brothers and Warpcoven all have psychic abilities in one form or another. Still, denying psyching within pentagon is super situational at best. Some kind of swapping aura would be ideal.

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Brought out my decade old slaaneshi black legion CSM models to play compendium CSM against kommandos yesterday. Was a bit one-sided because I just didn't have the bodies to stay in control, but it was still fun. First 3 cultists that got into melee rolled zero hits but I guess that was made up for by getting initiative T2/3/4. Ultimately much more fun than loyalist marines just by virtue of having more interesting plays and equipment and access to recon and infiltrate tac ops. 12-17 final score if I got everything right.

>>93392887
I found the ufile link from the Scananon, but when I tried to download it, I was told the file was corrupt and couldn't open it.

>>93393825
Tell us abkut your team, Anon

>TQ
GW already tested the waters with fem custodes. You arnt getting an update to ANYTHING female oriented (SoS, SoB, ect) until they make the cursed leap for fem space marines. Guarentee it. Welcome to hell.

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>>93394108
we know for a fact you're wrong

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>>93394086
It's literally just a squad of slaanesh-worshipping marines with a gathering of cultist rabble, part of the black legion. I didn't do much with their lore back then, at least not anything I remember.
The three cultists just running in and being completely ineffective (note: two of them were attacking a 1 wound kommando and would've killed him with just a single hit going through) make me speculate that the cultists have a shared humiliation kink, though.
I am considering painting up some cooler CSM models I have as delirious traitor Blood Ravens, this collection serves more to get the team together quickly (I might be using it to instruct a new player on playing the game soon) and test if it really is as fun as it seems.

>>93394037
Scananon here, I'm away from my desktop for 9 days. When I am back to it I'll do a new upload.

>>93394236
Is that fiery explosion off the sword making a Fleur De Lis??

>>93394289
Ah. Fair enough, but if you intend to play this team at least semi freqyently you should make up some narrative, like why do they bring cultists, why did they join the BL, what brought them together, what's their motivation. The narratuve comoenents is what makes a killteam feel alive and I love fluff.

>>93394512
Thank you.

>>93392604
Thanks for the tips. I need to get ready to go soon, but do you have any suggestions on who to bring besides the Sargeant, Comms, Sniper, and Spotter?
Also I noticed that the Pathfinders don't have any blast damage outside of the grenadier. If I neutralize that target, could I safely make a sniper nest on a vantage point with a spotter, sniper, and a Zealot or something?

Came back from a tourney yesterday
it sure was a trip, first I played against brood brothers on open, managed to take down the pat turn one with a custodes, but forgot the brothers have a free traverse strat and left 3 sisters and a custodes in range of the zapper's dynamite, failed to make enough saves and lost too much strength to recover.
Second game, luck was ridiculously against me, 3 shots at +2 had zero hits, then I failed to make any saves with a sister and a custodes, played it out to turn 4 but the game was lost from the start.
Third game, my sisters ran over a group of intercessors, they had a bad roll turn one and lost the leader, and they simply could not keep up afterwards, sisters have functionally 11 hp and power weapons, even when I died on the charge, leaving a marine on 1 hp still left me with an advantage.
All in all, pretty fun day.
Crazy that I got assigned octarius thrice, maybe I'd been a bit more lucky on closed maps but what can you do.
>>93392884
A guy at the tourney straight up bought me lunch.
Something about the more balanced and relaxed nature of kill team makes for a more relaxed community.
>>93393783
true but denying mind control and then double fighting a patriarch to death is a feeling I'll relish for a while.

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Need a rules check /ktg/ on something that has always confused my friends and I, is there effectively no way to attack a concealed unit who is in cover on a vantage point outside of flanking around said cover so it doesn't matter?
(Think the vantage points on the Ork Octarius box set terrain where metal barrier provides cover.)
Two opposing operatives who are both concealed, in cover, and on a vantage point cannot target one another, correct?
We've also caught wind of some hearsay that according to the rules you cannot have cover while on vantage points so as to not make it so powerful.

>>93395602
>Need a rules check /ktg/ on something that has always confused my friends and I, is there effectively no way to attack a concealed unit who is in cover on a vantage point outside of flanking around said cover so it doesn't matter?
that's right, totally immune, except against weapons with the indirect keyword.
>Two opposing operatives who are both concealed, in cover, and on a vantage point cannot target one another, correct?
that's right, unless one is higher than the other or has an indirect weapon.
We've also caught wind of some hearsay that according to the rules you cannot have cover while on vantage points so as to not make it so powerful.
People often mishear that one, what the rules say is that you cannot use the vantage floor as cover.

Generally you only place the octarius terrain so that the parts with cover face backwards or sideways, or if you place it facing forward, so that there's a big piece of heavy cover right in front of it.

>>93395602
In that example, no they cannot target each other
That would be when you'd need some kind of ability that can strip a conceal order like the vetguard spotter, a weapon with the Indirect quality, to flank around them so that you can draw lines without tagging the cover, or just to approach within 2" where operatives cannot claim cover at all.

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>>93395602
You can also make it within 2" of the operative to deny all cover, or use an indirect weapon (krak grenades for example). But yes, it is pretty hard to remove a concealed operative on a vantage point behind cover.
>according to the rules you cannot have cover while on vantage points
I think this mixes up two concepts.
One is that, as a general principle when setting up terrain, you should be careful where you place vantage points that have cover; they make for really powerful sniper nests and can be really oppressive if they have good sightlines. That's just a tip though, not a hard rule.
The second is an actual rule that an operative standing on a terrain feature can't use parts of that terrain feature that are below the operative as cover. What this means effectively is that the floor an operative is standing on won't grant it cover, even though because of its elevation cover lines will pass through the floor when it is shot at from below. This is a rule, but I'd wager it's one you've already been playing with even if you haven't thought about it.

>>93395190
As mentioned, it's a temporary solution and I may paint a proper team if I want to keep playing it (which I dunno about, it is a fun team but it'll get real tiring to be this much of an underdog in the long run). These old models are fun but not quite up to my standards nowadays for how I want my models to look.

>>93395449
I take:
Sergeant (power weapon & plasma pistol)
Confidant (Bolt gun, so you don't lose your orders if sarge dies, plus GA2 with a plasma gunner using combined arms allows for safe supercharging)
Gunner (plasma)
Gunner (melta)
Gunner (grenade launcher)
Sniper
Spotter
Medic
Demo
Comms
4x troopers on ancillary support

Once you have taken out a few key targets you can start trading gunners for pathfinders. You have more bodies, with the confidant able to take over issuing orders don't be afraid to throw the sarge into combat to chop them up with the power weapon.

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Finished putting bases on my WIP trench coat dorfs. Going for a deep rock galactic scout colour scheme.

>>93392481
Is this is the mission where you fight over the light switches?
>>93396603
I think your scheme looks good but I can't be sure because you took a photo in very poor lighting
>>93395602
>no way to attack a concealed unit on vantage
That is what krak grenades or anything else with the indirect rule are for.

I would look up some community made tournament map packs for Octarius, they tend to avoid dueling vantage with cover setups like that. Don't be put off by them being tournament maps either, the balance is great for learning the game casually too.

Turning Point is the most popular set I believe.
>>93392884
>>93392957
>>93395503
This has been my experience as well. The community is shockingly friendly.

>>93395167
yeah

lol custodes are so braindead EZ on ITD, specially against marines, it's just march forward and kill.

>>93398319
Based as fuck

>>93394512
Okie dokie I'll be patient, probably just asj next thread as that should hopefully be over a week from now.

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>>93396049
>>93392604
Blessings upon you for the suggestions anon.
Learned some combos I never considered before and the sons of Krieg did the Emperor proud.

>>93400379
If your opponent is playing anything stronger than compendium marines and knows what they're doing you should be losing on mission objectives though, especially on mission action-heavy objectives.

>>93394289
I have those same old marines, but as word bearers. I used a bunch of parts and pieces and a 3D printer to turn them into a Legionary List. You should look about doing that since compendium CSM bends easily under pressure. I'll post pics once I'm home.
(Pro tip: newer arms and weapons look big on old marines, yet the backpacks look small unless you shove a cape or a scanner or a trophy)

>>93401094
Not if you go 5 sisters 2 custodes.
You have the activation advantage and sisters with power swords are basically marines already.

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>>93401274
I've played enough Legionary (pic related, plus a night lords team) already, the entire point was testing just how harsh the half cultist compendium team actually is nowadays and having some simple fun with the funny cultist strats. My opponent has been struggling to learn to play his kommandos because my bespoke teams have been overhwelming him (as in, our last game I entered TP3 having killed 5 kommando operatives in exchange for 4 wounds taken on a single marine) with special abilities that he can't keep track of so I thought this might be a good alternative while still letting me have some fun but unfortunately this seems to be too far in the other direction; he said he didn't really have to try in order to beat me, so to give him the right learning environment I might have to play my much more boring deathwatch instead. Maybe I can at least convince him to let me give them the infiltator and incursor keywords to homebrew some fun into the team...

>>93402385
it can't be that bad right?
>their gunner is 5 4+ 3/4
Jesus.

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I've been into 40k lore and ttrpgs for some time, now I want to get into tabletop proper. Would Voidscarred Kill Team be a good start? I like Eldar Outcasts and Inquisition the most. Alternatively I could get Inquisition Kill Team

>>93403332
Voidscarred are fun, go ahead.
Inquisition requires you buy two boxes anyways, though you get enough models in the ordo malleus and hereticus boxes that were announced today

>>93403532
Well, I might have to get two boxes anyway since it's seems that it's hard to buy heads separately in my country (Russia), and I'd like to replace some Voidscarred heads with Drukhari heads (most likely Wyches, their heads are great)

You know what would be cool? deathwatch veterans are sold in groups of 5, make the bespoke kill team either 6 or 5 plus an inquisitor.

>>93405988
Deathwatch are purely a compendium team, unless you dress up your Intercession Kill Team in black. They will get no bespoke rules. Besides, we already have Inquisition Agents. That the level we are looking at for Kill Team, Interrogators. A fully blown Inquisitor is too powerful.

>>93406162
they have to get one eventually right?
Besides, an inquisitor is certainly not leagues above the Kill Team scale, it'd probably be something like 9W +4 invuln, 4/6 lethal 5 power weapon, and either some slightly stronger bolter or at most a lascannon/mining laser equivalent psychic attack.
>>93392475
I really want to build a kill team table that's just one or two buildings in ruins. Something that's more to scale and sensical

>>93406162
>Deathwatch are purely a compendium team
Yeah but we're hoping that changes eventually
As for inquisitors, I dunno. Their combat power isn't too insane, and we've seen rogue traders already which would be about the same level. I could see the argument for them not going on missions themselves, but again we've seen stuff like broodlords and pther GSC higherups.

>>93406286
Death Guard and Tyranids are both in the Compendium and don't look like they are getting a bespoke team any time soon. Remember, they released Votaan scouts, aeldari pirates and Space Judge Dredd before they gave one of the more significant Xenos race anything other than their compendium team. By comparison Deathwatch are only a (admitted unique) flavour of marines. They're not interested in more marines, but using the system to remake old sculpts and introduce scout units for newer factions. Never say never, but odds are way against it.
>>93406380
See above. I think it is incredibly unlikely that DW will get a team of any description. Remember, the compendium was only there to get all 40k players playing the game, so they'd start buying into it. They aren't interested in giving Your Guys rules or models, they wanted to seel the new game system.

To both of you, please don't mistake the above as me defending GW for this, or saying I don't think that the one faction who lends it's name to the whole game shouldn't have a leading role. I think that even the compendium team is so fun and flavourful compared to most. It deserves a team, even if it will never get one. Realism, not pessimism.

Brood brothers should get hot on their AP1 strat
Brood brothers should get hot on their +1 damage equipment

>>93407089
I mean
They do get Hot on the overcharge lasguns ploy

lost to fellgor with scouts. I had some clutch rerolls but at the end of the day, frenzied is scary and the shaman is dirty.
still not sure which to take more of, knives or shotguns.

>new edition drops
>KT gets immensely hyped
>product flies off shelves
>posters talking about the LGS KT club
>a year later they've abandoned it for Warcry
lol

>>93407796
Meleeing goats is suicide. You'll lose half your health on the first fight and then lose the rest of it when they frenzy.
>>93403332
The corsair kill team is one of the worst kits of all time to put together. It might be frustrating if its your first tabletop experience. GW had a time period where they let a computer optimize cramming as much crap as possible onto a sprue with no regard for human usability and corsairs were released during the worst of that.

They're a very fun team though.

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>>93407945
>Meleeing goats is suicide. You'll lose half your health on the first fight and then lose the rest of it when they frenzy.

Laughs at goat melee when we're packing phosphor lumens

I wonder if you could make the goats balanced if you gave them fight last when frenzied.
Would probably have to revert a bunch of nerfs because frenzy would become pretty useless against melee teams but maybe not.

>>93392521
Just know what?

>>93393559
List the art where SoS are properly sized and proportioned. Maybe will work on their 3d models later.
To answer your question, hopefully soon, and without custodes. Fuck those guys. Ogryn/plague hulks/patriarch/whatever new monstrocity that is a giant beast - yes. Post-humanlike monstrocity with insanely good equipment - no. I would even go as far as to say ogryn team with a retard wrangler at its center is fine.
- stat/attack is insanely good, so it is more reasonable to expect something lesser. Having bolters, flamers and other "light" ranged weapons coupled with power weapons is to be expected in my opinion. As well as 9 (with the mastiff, who activates together with handler) 3+ save 8/9 wd operatives.

>>93394108
>tested the waters
No. They did not even toetip them. All they did was cover up for a retard in lieu of politics. It took them 0 effort and there will be nothing out of it, no repercussions, no commitment, no femstodes.

>>93407945
>GW had a time period where they let a computer optimize cramming as much crap as possible onto a sprue with no regard for human usability and corsairs were released during the worst of that.

They are still doing that

>>93407945
>The corsair kill team is one of the worst kits of all time to put together. It might be frustrating if its your first tabletop experience

I don't remember them being that bad

>corsair complaints
Why? They are not oversaturated with details, nor are they hard to build. I sincerely dont get it.

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>>93411066
>>93411173
They have three sprues with no logical order to the numbers and near identical looking tiny pieces scattered about. Two halves of one arm can be on two different sprues. It's madness.

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Found this on Reddit

>>93412005
I've build every single bespoke team released in KT21. Corsairs were completely unmemorable and therefore a good build in my opinion.

>>93412173
>>93412005
So what? Find the number, clip the piece, clean mold lines, glue. Who cares if you look over multiple sprues for the pieces? Is that really such a hardship?

I found Corsairs far more tedious to paint then to build, personally. But then again I don't use subassemblies and they are greebled to the gills.

>>93406652
Deathguard has Nurgle Legionary which is a suitable substitute (even if not a 1:1 replacement). Honestly 5+ FNP in this game is strong enough to make Deathguard Viable (Ish). Franklly people don't play them because of bad scoring match ups ( I doubt they could push past about 40-42% win rate) and the lack of options (the speed thing basically is going to dictate how they play all the time). Honestly being able to run 2 plasma + Pseudo plasma Blight Launcher and then enough melee that should make anyone sweat.

Can't compete against 14 units but honestly in terms of who controls the battlefield at the end? They don't get dunked, other teams give them basically a 6 point deficit in the first two turns and it's hard to work back from that.

>>93414217
Nurgle≠Deathguard. There are plenty of other factions within the scope of heretic Astartes that serve Nurgle, these are covered perfectly by Legionaries but they don't cover the distinct equipment and character of the Death Guard. In the same way that Khorne marks don't really make World Eaters, Tzeentch doesn't make Thousand Sons. Warp Coven make Thousand Sons perfectly because the rules are not generic with a slight tingle of flavour but bespoke, unique and really quite fun.
>I would love to see Emperor's Children with Daemonettes like WC can take Tzaangors
>4circle movement, always treated as the attacker

>>93414487
Your splitting hairs there. It's not necesarily Deathguard but legionaries could definitely be Deathguard. Black legion has warbands from all major chaos factions in it. Disgusting Resilience vs. Disgusting Vigor makes it pretty clear what they were trying to do. If you're upset about them not being Mark IV armors you can use MarkIV armors for Black legion.

>>93414553
For DG players, the unrestricted movement, lacking defensive buff, lack of DG-specific weapons and equipment, lack of disease auras, and lack of DG-specific themes and models are what makes legionary a poor fit.
You can of course say that you can proxy a plague scythe as a two-handed chainaxe, that the movement is not a big deal, that the one nurgle tactical ploy is sort of like a disease aura, etc, but that flavour is what makes factions in 40k cool. If we skip those, we might as well reduce the game down to one regular humanoid team, one marine team, one eldar team, and one melee monstery team and call it a day.

>>93414553
I'm not upset about anything, I just disagree with your assessment that Legionaries covers Death Guard. I understand that they COULD represent them, like they could represent any chaos warband. But they are just not going to have the unique flavour that we get for Thousand Sons with Warp Coven. You see me splitting hairs, I see you making false equivalencies.

I do think it strange that GW won't give a major faction (starter set baddies for 8th is pretty major) bespoke rules but are coming out with such niche teams. In nightmare we got a different flavour of Legionaries. In Termination we got a different flavour of Hearthkyn and an effective update to Wyrm Blade. Yet 12 boxed sets and 24 bespoke teams later (setting aside WD teams that got folded into the 2022 annual) we haven't seen teams for Tyranids, Custodes or Deathguard. I don't collect any of those so I'm not angry about the poor decision, but you have to admit it is unusual when you look at other choices. Arbites? Who was asking for them? Navy Breachers? A cool and fun team but before they existed no one wanted them, no one said "hey, you know what I'd like to play..."

>>93415984
Are there not canonly Deathguard in the black legion? You may not like it, you may want your own bespoke team (and who wouldn't), but saying they are not when they are. The status of the Black legion having Legionaries not only who worship all the chaos gods but from all the chaos legions is canon. The equivalence is not false, similar to the way that Alpha legion can also have legionaries from all the legions, just the way it is bro.

I have to admit I don't know their logic for what gets a set when, but I doubt we will see another take on Custodes or Deathguard when the teams that exist are good enough (you can run either team into a modern tournament and do about as well as WarpCoven). Tyranids are probably on the books for an upgrade but they don't have the sprues or updated models or something.

I think most of the Compendium teams are going to get into the third edition realatively untouched. If they bring up the base number of models for elite teams (running 8 by default instead of six, probably five for Custodes still with the option to ruin 3 custodes/ 5 sisters) I could see and I would wager faction tac ops and some updated/more concise ploys. But not much else.

This means that Elite teams are going to end up being 8x 12 wounds base, 10 man teams are going to be either hefty (10 wounds) or skilly (with auxillery options) and 14 man teams are going to be numerous (7-8 wounds).

But that's just a guess.

I want to enter the Kill team hobby.
I already own a couple of 40k armies, but I'm interesting in painting some of the bands of this game.
What would be the best terrain to get, in terms of rules and fun?
Is the space hulk terrain the best, or would the regular ruins and other 40's terrain pieces be ideal?

>>93417052
>I doubt we will see another take on Custodes or Deathguard when the teams that exist are good enough
Custodes sure but definitely not death guard, half their fire teams are totally useless and their ploys are pretty boring.
>>93417408
The space hulk terrain is fun and fixes some problems but it is more of a side mode that favors melee armies. octarius and nachmund are the ideal setups, and you should aim for that level of terrain density.

>>93418437
>not death guard
Honestly Custodes is almost in a worst place if you take them at their 4 operative core. They just don't have the bodies, which means they have to spread out which means they get picked off (1 or 2 ) after losing the first and likely second TP on primary points.

>Totally useless
Warriors are not useless on a team, I would like the team composition rules to be updated (because just as a new guy and reading the description once or two) as lots of new people just build it wrong. I wouldn't mind if the overloaded fighter was divided into two fighters or if the Warrior was converted into a bell bearer (giving them back 3EP) but frankly there's nothing wrong with the warrior because he's 12 wounds with 5+ FNP, a standard boltgun (which plays well with the double shoot) and a somewhat brawly knife,
>ploys are boring
One of the only ploys to reliably give 4 Def but I get what you mean. Honestly I think the bigger issue is the janky (not extending to next activation but just end of TP boosts, etc) implementation on the Icon Bearer aura and the bell movement.

>>93418705
I said half their fireteams, I meant poxwalkers, I agree with you about the warrior being decent.
Yeah about the end of tp boosts, they clearly know it's an issue now, because the mandrake smoke screen lasts until the next time that operative activates, hopefully even if next edition just reprints them, maybe they fix that at least.

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What Kill Teams should I pick as a newbie? I want to get 1 or 2.

1.Voidscarred
2.Hand of the Archon
3.Craftworld Kill Team
4.Commorite Kill Team
5.Inquisition

Never played or painted minis before

I'm also thinking about starting an eldar army in main 40k

>>93420516
Of those, Corsairs are by far the best choice for rules. The kit is pretty easy to build, depending on how you opt to paint them fairly easy to paint and have fun and engaging rules. HotA is a glass cannon, once you know the game mechanics have a look. Avoid the compendium, the bespoke teams are much better. And inquisition is a complex team than require eight different boxes to build every single option available.

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>>93412210
Maybe anon is used to Gunpla kits where the pieces are intentionally laid out on the sprue so it's intuitive to find the next piece you need

>>93420516
Corsairs are probably the best all round team, I would put them down more or less as 'The' Aeldari team to start with, fun to play, feels strong, some build variety, looks great. I would put them on par Kommando's for being 'Kill Team newbcore with probably vet guard rounding out the set.

>>93419373
>They know its an issue
I'm interested to see if they actually try to bring the Early/Compendium Kill Team teams into line in KT3. It would be a great place to give those early teams a redo in terms of content, I need unironic indirect 3/4 plague spewers. I guess I can run some Jank Deathguard online.

>>93421426
old kits were like this. it just adds to the size of the shipped product

>>93422247

Newb here, can confirm vet guard rules. The only drawback as a new player is figuring out how utilize 14 bodies effectively without getting caught by blast attacks, but that's not a big deal. I imagine some of the simpler marine teams like Intercession Squad would be good as well for a new player, but I think horde teams are more forgiving because losing a few models to a misplay is no big deal.

I honestly prefer the previous kill team edition, but that really might be up to me sucking colossally. In old KT I always had close matches, managed to win most of the time through objectives playing as regular tactical marines and orks.
So far out of 5 games in new KT, 3 with compendium orks, 2 with kommandos I got bodied so fucking hard it's not even funny. Kommandos got murdered by vet guardsmen twice, compendium orks got shrekt by primaris marines, thousand sons and someone I can't even remember. I am playing againts the same person every time to boot.

>>93424352
Kommandos are a solid team with some hench operatives and powerful ploys. For starters, you should never take your melee operatives off of conceal. Get them into combat and make a mess of the guard. The snipa can be tucked into a safe sniper hole with SNEAKY GIT. Also good for alpha strike using the breacha, who can walk through most terrain and be set up within charge distance. Your grot is your late game objective stealer, leave him on your closest objective scoring it, last TP throw him across the board to nick one of your opponents. He is especially good with the Comms boy giving him +1apl and then interloping on the Infiltration archetype. Dakka can safely jump out, shoot and jump back for easy damage on guardsmen. Rokkit boy and be thrown on conceal with good viewpoints and if you take infiltrate in the scouting step flip him to engage and unload with rerolls for not having moved. SSSSHHHH! Get your lads moving too, into those first objectives even quicker. You can even be clever with barricade placement, putting them for inches out from your deployment zone and dashing all operatives with SSSSHHHH! Into cover before a single activation.

Vet guard have shooting and can gang up on you if you don't start stacking bodies asap. Take out the gunners and sniper asap, and those LASGUNS suddenly look a lot less threatening.
>pic sort of related
>into the breach ploy
>all guardsmen standing in the open dashed straight into cover before the firefight phase.

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>>93425820
Pic didn't attach..

>>93425820
Thanks for the tips, this is how I try to play them but unfortunately octarius mission "Eliminate target" severely limited my positioning options. I did fuck up royally with the dakka boy though, using it as another sniper was a dumb thing to do.
This and last time too my big issues were the enemy spawning on vantage points and there being fuckall heavy terrain for me to spawn behind, leaving everyone either bunched up for a barrage or in direct line of sight of a ton of guns.
I do have a few questions tho. Can the breacha move through more than 1 wall in a single move? Also what equipment would be good in general? Smoke seems to be useful but I don't really see it mentioned by people online.

>>93424352
>Compendium Orks
These guys are more or less bad, I even love running Loota's for Dethguns but they aren't strong at all, even into other compendium teams.

>Kommandos
This is a learning curve, one that I am on myself. You need to balance your shooting (which is mid) with advancing so you can krump hard later. You can't hang back and shoot (your shootings not good enough and your defenses are ass) but there's also a ton of little things you have to manage, more or less every named character has a gimmick from the more obvious ones (grot, squig, comms) to the less (leader also hands of AP, some of your units have free relentless with conditions which you need because your shooting is mid.

That said it's glorious when it works. advancing up face tanking things with just a scratch, using smoke/stun/dyanamite well, Taking advantage of 3AP plays, etc all gets easier.

>>93423831
It was a better time.
I miss the sleeved boxes, those were good.

>>93426383
Everyone is nostalgic for the past. Before mobile phones, before social media, before GW focused on profit rather than the labour or love for their settings. Don't be sad it is over, be happy you lived through it. Kids these days won't know the joy of looking at blisters of metal models and having to refer to the letter printed on the back to see how much it was, of getting a Land raider for £30, or LotR models first releasing alongside the films...

You made me sad anon. Fuck you.

>>93425939
As long as each wall is less than 1" thick, theres no limit to how many the breacha can move through

>>93425820
>>93426102
Kommandos also have the best aesthetic. 80s/90s spec ops is peak /fa/perator.

Anys news on the 3rd edition? Will the 2nd edition teams be worthless?

>>93426490
What, no. Be happy! Fuck you!

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>>93426777
Only a little news, next update is a month? away. While the first team is going to be Jump Scions vs Vespid? I doubt they're dumping 2nd edition teams. I expect a series of 'rules tweeks and homogenization' as KT 3.

I wish I had a better way to play kt solo just so I can try out teams and tactics. Usual play group only gets to play a couple times a month and nothing hurts more then building a team, painting it with love and affection, just to turn out to be hot garbage or attached the worst weapon with no magnets (looking at you arquebus. I sincerely wish you were good).

>>93427384
I know there are 40k dlcs for fantasy grounds, might be kt ones too.

>>93427384
You could always try stuff out in TTS first

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Is the Space Marine Heroes Kill Team any good?

>>93427777
They're fine as a beginner team, but given how all of their options are pre-selected I wouldn't recommend them for anyone beyond a beginner level

>>93427777
strike force justian is OK, but as your playgroup levels up they'll get worse and worse

Has anyone tried acolyte? I'd love to try it and do some more coop oriented kill team if possible. Any suggestions? Can it be done with any team or just inquisitors?

>>93426894
I had a good sleep and I'm happy again. Fuck you!
>>93427384
You could play out games by yourself but there are negatives, such as scouting steps and tac ops having to be closed hand. Honestly, playing as much as you can with as many different people as you can is the best way to get better. You'll see different teams, different play styles, learn tactics, etc. I teach a lot of people how to play and one thing I always do is a debrief post game. I'll ask them what they felt went well, what didn't, what they would have done differently, who their MVP was... I find this cements the memorable parts in their mind and helps them to understand what to do differently. A specific example was barricade placement with the last game I taught. My opponent realised he'd placed his blocking movement and generally Getting in the way of his team whilst not really offering much in the way cover that wasn't already available in those areas. He realised once the game started where he wanted his operatives to go, and where would be better to place barricades. A debrief helped focus his mind on that and with a pinch of luck, he now knows to consider this going forward. The more games he plays, the better his play will be.
>>93427777
>checked
I found them reasonably strong whilst being uninteresting. They are 100% the beginner team designed to make it as easy as possible to play, not necessarily the best team to play for most players.

>>93430180
>Has anyone tried acolyte?
I have, extensively. It uses some really good tricks to keep things interesting, among others the card decks.
>Can it be done with any team or just inquisitors?
The acolyte rules let you play as a group of human rabble. They're basically at the level where, once you reach top level, your operatives will match the ones in the inquisition team. Has a lot of customizability within that limitation though.

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>>93391566
when are these getting a solo release I must consoooooooome

>>93430565
I'm glad. A healthy sleep cycle is important for one's overall health. Fuck you!

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>>93427384
Ever tried KT Acolyte?
While originally its centered about inquisition, you can easily just use whatever teams you have against "AI" by using the corresponding rules and AI behavior chart.

Don't know if that will help you get better, but it sure do feel nice to play without extra brain load.

Taking my vet guard into battle again today, playing defense on a Moroch mission (Stealth Offensive) that heavily favors the defender. Going up against legionaries, and he'll have to come straight to me to score any VPs. Seems like a layup, but I'll be playing sleep deprived. I love narrative play so much, feels like they KT is meant to be played.

Wish me luck ktg bros. My melta gunner ranked up last game and now vantage won't negate his conceal order when he's behind cover, hopefully I can park him behind a convenient barricade and use him as a good counterpunch. I'm sure my opponent has a plan, and his butcher, acolyte, and gunners are all pretty scary.

Seize Ground, Stand Fast, and Hold Them Back should allow to max out tac ops just by playing the mission objective, so I'm set there. Just need to avoid the blast attacks and keep my gunners alive long enough to score some kills.

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>>93433198
Remember, if an operative within circle of your melta is caught by blast he'll be a valid target and will also be blasted. Frag, missile launcher and Firestorm are all capable of ruining his super conceal by just hitting him from an angle. Also frag and krak will treat him like he isn't in cover.

Good luck anon, I wish I had your enthusiasm for anything in life. How come we haven't seen any of your operatives yet?

>>93433861
>pic related
>melt on left was expected to vaporise dakka boy
>didn't happen, JUST A SCRATCH and poor rolling kept him alive but injured
>had to dedicate more shooting to bring him down and secure left flank
>confidant moved to centre of board, bolt gun chipped off last wounds
>was ready to GA2 with his ability and throw in even more dice, didn't need to
Just know the melta isn't necessarily an auto kill, especially against Nurgle marks. Legionnaires are quite tough.

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>>93433861

Thank you!! My paints only arrived this week, I gave them a white over gray zenithal prime and I'm slowly learning how to paint. I put a coat of gray speedpaint on the greatcoats, and picked out a few details so my guys aren't totally naked, but right now they pretty much just look grey still.

Good tip about the blast attacks, with the way the map is designed it'll be really tough to keep anyone safe from that. Apparently we have a house rule in place the walls on Moroch terrain are Traversable instead of climbable, so he can just jump over it with a few inches of movement and still get off a dash and shoot or fight. I figure I'll try to bait him in with chaff models exposed on the objectives, and keep my gunners in reserve away from the blast radius. Planning to stick the Rosary on my hardened so he might be able to withstand a single shot from one of them if I'm really lucky. Also counting on my sniper to do some work from the central vantage point up on the antenna before he inevitably gets shot off, I get to stick a model up there during the sentry phase.

>>93427384
Am I the only one who's been using gorilla/super glue instead of thin cement for that very reason? It's much easier to pop off arm/kit from superglue or just cut thru the glue with a scalpel then dealing with an actual bond/plastic weld.

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>>93435560
I use plastic glue for sturdiness but magnetise weapons I may switch in and out of my team. That rarely happens though, there is normally a preference on what I take. I do super glue to bases whilst painting, then snap them off to paint the base or move them into a pre painted base. I file and clean the bottom of feet to pure plastic and mark out places on the base to scrape back to plastic also. Once both positions are lined up, plastic glue secures the model to the base. I find it easier to work on each piece.
>pic related
>HotA base

>>93435231
What allows you to deploy an operative that far forwards?

Sniper can shoot from conceal, why not stick them in cover at the back for an untargetable operative putting out constant attacks that can treat enemy operative as engaged? The mortal wounds will be great against Nurgle marks in cover, or even better on the melee focused operatives, giving your opponent nothing to move up with.

>>93412210
Yes. It’s terrible sprue design that shows a contempt for the customer. Every other company on Earth groups parts to make builds go quicker.

>>93435815
More sprues=higher price. I'd rather they cram as much as they can on and I pay for three sprues rather than having to pay for four perfectly laid out sprues. GW talked about this when people bitches the Royal Dorn tank didn't have a bottom. So fucking what? If it saves money, who cares?

With Kill teams especially, you build it once and you are done. There's no reason to get salty about a build taking an hour longer (if you are particularly retarded and finding pieces REALLY takes you that long) if it is a single build, never to be repeated.

>>93435684
Is there a good drill/magnet/starter's magnet kit out there?

>>93431688
>I must consoooooooome
Despite those mines being bullshit honestly I think Salvagers may be in a better spot overall.

>>93435726

My opponent is running a mix of Khorne and undivided I think.

This is a Moroch narrative mission, some of them have a "sentry phase" that basically takes the place of the recon phase. In this mission I get to put two sentries on the board, one of them on the antenna in the middle and one of them on top of the landing pad back by my drop zone. I figure the sniper can take best advantage of shooting on conceal behind the little piece of light cover up there. Anyone else and they'll get shredded instantly by return fire, even in cover. At least if they want to shoot the sniper when he's up there on conceal they'll have to come around and flank from an exposed position, which will hopefully set up trades. Planning to park my plasma as the other sentry, with the zealot and the medic standing by. Yeah I'm taking the zealot he's cool and flavorful and it's narrative so wgaf

Also here's my little gray dudes, very early WIP after slapping some grey speedpaint on the coats. I'm gonna go mostly greyscale for them with some little bits of color for the important bits, I'm completely new to painting minis so I think a simple scheme is the best approach.

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How am I supposed to remember all the rules for this game if I can't even remember to attach the image -.-

>>93436280
>retard take
Modelling is usually the most fun part. Not with nuGW sprues.

>>93436712
get a set of 3x1mm magnets and any hand drill off amazon.

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Does anyone have a link to download the 8th edition Kill team books? I found the core manual but not the factions codex and elites. Wounder if anyone still plays that, or if it's just me

>>93436712
My pin vice is an old GW one, from the good times when they made high quality tools at reasonable prices. The bits came from eBay, 0.1mm to 3.2mm. I get all my magnets from Spider magnets, UK based and free shipping within the UK. N52s are available which I favour for the reliability they offer. No idea about starter sets, my stuff accumulated over decades of hobbying.

>>93436841
Any operative on the antenna vantage point won't be able to use any piece of terrain lower than his base for cover. At that point the amount of cover available is so pathetically insignificant that any operative up there is going to get shot very easily. You are much better off putting the sniper on your back line and having him pick-off targets safely.

>>93437889
>retard take
>hates the part that's supposed to be fun
You're right, that is a retard take.

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>>93436885
This is making me want to work on my guys. 4th recon, 141st Krieg.

>>93440424

That piece of light cover up there was enough to keep the sniper alive for the first turning point, he deleted the balefire acolyte before dying so it worked out okay.

However, i got my shit absolutely pushed in today today. He won the little sentry please mini game in this mission and got to deploy his butcher right next to my base drop zone. I foolishly decided to stick a bunch of chaff over there in order to show him down and protect my gunners on the other side. Wildly underestimated how crazy strong that model is at deleting groups of infantry. I had the chronometer but even with a reroll I couldn't win tp1 initiative and him him down before he just waded into me and killed half the team. Sure it would have worked out fine if I won initiative, but I'm hindsight it was a stupid bet to make, when I could have just deployed everyone away from that side of the board and forced him to run towards me. I scored 0 VPs and got tabled but it was actually a really fun game, took down 4 marines but pretty much lost due to my dumb deployment.

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>>93440487

Fuck yeah krieg bro I love the gas mask color

All my dudes died made their atonement today :')

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Here's what the deployment looked like, I am not a smart man but I panicked because the butcher was inches away from me -.-

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>>93440729
1:1:2 of the attached.
>>93440734
How Legionary bro get that many operatives so far forwards? I see three out of his deployment zone. Or is this after a few activations? Also, the butcher is sitting pretty on conceal, but that means no charging. Unless he ALSO took infiltrate in the scouting step.

>>93440759

It's a narrative mission with a weird infiltration mini game, Moroch 3.3 - Stealth Assault. Basically I failed all the rolls so he got to run all the way up the board on conceal, then flip to engage tp2 and shred me. It was really fun actually, world have been way more winnable if I had deployed better (I only had two "sentries" out there during the sentry/intruder phase, I had the chance to deploy everyone else after he rusheded that operative across the midline). It took us like half an hour just to understand the rules and get going but it was super fun.

If you enjoy narrative play definitely check out the Moroch terrain/boxes, I never see people talking about these maps but I think they're my favorite of any box set.

>>93440776
>Raising the Alarm: The alarm is raised if any of the following conditions are met (instead of those here):
>An intruder is within of the Spotlight token and is within a sentry’s Line of Sight (note that as intruders always have a Conceal order, they must be Visible, not Obscured and not in Cover to be in a sentry’s Line of Sight).
>An intruder moves over the sentry line (see map).
>The Attacker chooses to begin the assault.
The second bullet point means as soon as the butcher moved over the mid line he was spotted and the sentry phase was over. Assuming the Legionary anon got first turning point his butcher could only engage and slaughter a single operative. You should have placed your melta and confidant close to one another, on conceal. Ignore the butcher until your last activations, then GA2 with the confidant moving and shooting, then the melta moving and shooting with combined arms giving him rerolls to hit. 4 attacks, rerollable 4's to hit, AP2, he'd have been toasted. You even had your sarge is a great place to plasma him if you needed it.

Sniper was still the wrong operative to have in the tower, he is way to valuable. You don't put the mortar crew on stag, you use your riflemen. You need the mortar crew, drivers, machine gunners, medics doing what they were trained to do. Infantry can't do anything else except shoot, they can take stag. Sniper should have been at the back on the landing pad, on the left away from the butcher. As soon as an operative gets within 6 inches of the sentry line, he starts making pink mist.

It looks quite complex, maybe I will try introducing this mission in the campaign I'm running.

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Question about patriarch mind control. Seems like it's meant to be really powerful since it costs 2 AP, can only be used once and can fail if you're outrolled by your opponent but I don't really see why it's strong.

Brood brothers will be my first kt so I could definitely be missing something but it just seems situational. Like if you really need to take out a far away target, you would mind control an opponent to do it. But since you have to get close to use it, wouldn't it be better to get into melee usually? That way you could potentially do a second activation to charge and fight again.

>>93442749
It depends on the operative. Let's say you are fighting Legionaries, and are in a position to charge the plasma gunner, but the chosen is visible to the gunner and on the other side of the board. Mind control the plasma gunner then have him supercharge against the chosen. You still them have enough cp to charge and fight if you want.

It IS situational and almost always you'll want to go for the magos (MW mind cannon, 5++ across the team, injury immunity AND ignore negative APL modifiers) as you then get to pick another support option and lookout lets you throw crossfire tokens down like confetti, especially TP1 when everyone is bunched up. Coupled with the ploy to add crossfire tokens before attacking rather than after and your shots are almost always going to hit home. That's my take away from one game anyway, ignoring AP weaponry, being injured and always having 2apl no matter what was amazing, plus the first two times the Magos used his mind cannon I rolled really well, he did 16 mortal wounds in two turning points. Considering it isn't a shooting attack so can be done from concealed, he became a back line gunner.

>>93442749
It is situational, but that doesn't mean it's bad. If you can pick up a plasma shot with it that's probably worth, also helps prevent melee with assistance. Instead of eating the second melee with assistance you can mind control the other guy to break up his own guy. That or just dashing guys away so you can into shadows next time or whatever. Strong, good tool kit but hardly going to an autopick (especially at 3 picks), feel like Magus/Primus and familiars will be more popular if not just 3 troopers. 13 activations is pretty hefty.

>>93442749
Also worth noting it could tip control of objectives. You could control an operative and have them perform a mission action to secure/loot/upload blah blah blah. As >>93442877 said you could also fight another operative with the one you take over. A veteran sergeant turning round and shanking his own comms is pretty hilarious, especially as it denies kill zone wide orders going forward. A target rich environment, it'll help for your opponents operatives to thin themselves out a bit.

>>93442935
it's weird then than in terms of attack output a pat still can only kill two guys a turn, one fighting and one with Mind Control

>>93442955
I mean there is the entire rest of the game it needs to be balanced to.

>>93442749
Mind control is a bit of a meme. If you can pull off a charge into a plasma gunner, succeed on the control, shoot an enemy operative with it, and then fight I guess (bonus points for splitting it into two activations to charge -> MC and then leave the patriarch to either snack on the gunner later or slip into shadow if the gunner falls back).
But that leaves you risking 2APL on a dice roll to do something (with worse odds against marines, who would otherwise be the prime targets), with no saving grace if the roll fails.
Treating it as a battering ram with little nuance is likely safer, remember that it can charge -> fight twice in a turn as long as the total charge distance isn't more than 9".

Okay next box is definitely the Vespid and Scions rumour then?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/26/chalnath-dispatches-blade-in-the-dark/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/07/12/chalnath-dispatches-at-all-costs/

>>93442955
Exactly. And whilst it is an absolute unit it does not buff your other operatives at all. You are giving up way too much potential from all the other options. A shame really, I would have liked to run it.

>>93443745
I mean you can, the fact that it's an opportunity cost doesn't mean it's the bad choice.

>>93443464
no sure, I don't think it should be buffed, I'm saying that it ends up not being that different from being a regular 3APL operative.

>>93443963
>tp2
>activate
>flip to engage order
>charge
>fight
>secure objective
>into shadow ability
>back to conceal

I can see plenty of ways the Patriarch can be used to great effect with it's abilities and APL4. But as said previously it gives up too much potential to be worth it. Everyone will be trying to shoot it off of the board, and a good melta shot could do it in one. Stuff the invuln, the number of mortal wounds that can be done is horrendous.

>>93440898

Yeah, the optimal play probably would have been either a regular GA2 trooper up there or the hardened vet so he can tank a bit of incoming fire. I also realized way too late that even with my poor deployment, I should have been using In Death Atonement to stop the butcher from advancing after killing a model, that would have stopped the whole thing right there. I just didn't think about it because I usually save that for my "important" guys, but the actually important things would have been forcing the butcher to end its turn, then having that model activate+die, then shooting him to bits. Ah well, this was my third time playing KT and also my third time ever playing a wargame. I'm still learning the game and this team, lots of good lessons learned in this one. I'll be back stronger next time.

>>93440898

Also, the way we interpreted it was the butcher would get his full movement since he started that move right behind the line, then the sentry phase would be over. Idk if that's correct but it felt right at the time

>>93445132
If you learned something it wasn't a mistake, it was a lesson. That's how everyone gets better, with practice.

If I have the starter box, which environements/special ops/books do I need to grab? Core Rulebook? Bheta-Decima?

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>>93445238
Depends what mission you want to play. Series one is a mad mix, Octarius and Chalnath terrain is OOP, Nachmund uses various Mechanicus terrain bits, Moroch terrain got rebranded and Nachmund in a stand alone set. Series two is all gallowdark terrain, each box in the series had it's own unique sprue with things like ammo stashes, sentry guns, hololith tables, door barricades, etc. Series three is Bheta Decima, the terrain is freely available currently. Nightmare and Termination have unique terrain pieces that you can only get through them but need for their respective missions.

Of course, you can use any terrain you like as long as you establish the terrain traits each piece has prior to playing. These things for example were needed for a Chalnath mission, anything appropriately sized will serve the same purpose.

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Who here excited for bugs vs Scions?

>>93446212
I'm probably going to get the set, I'm hoping the scions look good.

>>93446360
I kinda hope the Scions don't look good. I'm buying it for the Vespids and I don't want to be tempted to do another project

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>>93446212
I am. Love Scions.

>>93446212
Not sure. I enjoy Stormtroopers. The current Scions are okay looking. But I am kind of worried they'll bring back 3rd metal stormtrooper vibes in plastic, which will ruin the aesthetic with nuGW sloppiness.

Nothing GW really excites me anymore. I should just stick to collecting old stuff.

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>>93446487

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>>93446644
they're still bringing it with the Tau lately

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OK so we got one article teasing the Scions, and one article teasing the Vespids. I feel like we're going to get one more article, this one teasing the terrain. But we already have some hints about it.

The Imperials called it the Alpha Asset, the Tau called it a superweapon.

Key phrases from the teasers
>If we lose Volkus then we lose the Alpha Asset, do you understand? That cannot be allowed to happen.
>For all its brutish nature, the technological secrets of the Gue’la superweapon must fascinate the Earth caste.
>Conventional colonisation in force carries too high a risk while it remains operational [...] Our naval assets are fully committed to patrolling localised sept space, and are still badly disrupted with astrotelemetric variables remaining so unpredictable. It would be reckless in the extreme to commit what Kor’vattra assets we have in the face of such destructive power.
>help Kor’vattra vessels to evade the notice of the Human superweapon

Alright, what are we thinking? It seems more esoteric than just a big gun. But it can't be moved from the planet, so it's not like, one guy. Some kind of weaponized Astropath choir? Some kind of Xenos relic modified by the Mechanicus? A big gun powered by the site of a miracle?

>>93447373
Probably an relic space station able to threaten entire fleets, but unable to be moved from the system.

>>93446841
No, that's overproduced nuGW slop that has no character nor soul like the company used to produce.

>>93447373
Are all Blackstone Fortresses accounted for? It could be something similar, the terrain for KT would be fun.

>>93442749
the patriarch is a fun model but its abilities as your leader are niche compared to your other options, and since he's a monster he comes with his own vulnerabilities. I wouldn't take him against powerful shooting teams like Kasrkin or Tau Pathfinders for this reason.

The best leader is the Primus, he can shoot from conceal AND he generates free command points for you. Since KT is a 4-turn game maximum, you'll want as many command points as you can get to keep your opponent covered in crossfire tokens and your other models alive. The Magus isn't bad but his psychic action isn't powerful enough to justify taking him over the Primus either. Really they should buff Magus a bit, he should be dealing way more mortal wounds with his spell.

ok thanks for reading my blog, glory to the four-armed emperor!

>>93442955
>>93443963
>>93443745
I think the Patriarch does need a slight buff for in terms of team support. As far as the Brood Brothers are concerned, they're fighting with their holy demigod cult leader. Spiritually it would be something like fielding Saint Celestine with a Sisters kill team.

I'm not sure what a good buff would be, but since the Patriarch has that unique 2 activations 4APL thing going, he could also buff the APL of friendly models close to him, giving them a pseudo 3 APL. That way the Brood Brothers player has extra incentive to surround the patriarch with his guardsmen besides the human shield mechanic.

>>93449351
>magus auras of "never wounded, never modified APL" and invul not even mentioned
>its mortal wounds with no saves, just "suffers X"
>isnt powerful enough
What the fuck did I just read? Do you realise how annoying that is against the elites and many other teams that modify APL? And your troops always fighting as their full versions? You are just ignoring one of the game mechanics, wounded state, and call the model which grants that AND much more "unjustified"? On a 7-wound team of all things?
>mastermind not even mentioned in description of primus
Patriarch is going to slap your stupid ass.

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lol
lmao

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>>93449648

>>93449657

Okay the vehicle rules on the left seem pretty okay, although vehicles absolutely should not be able to do mission actions or pick things up. However it should go without saying that the profile on the right is completely silly lol. 45 wounds and 3+ save? You could hit it with a melta three times and not take it out, just ludicrous lmao

>>93449711
Bringing a walking tank into Kill Team is retarded in general, you either nerf his stats to lose everything that makes him a tank, or you just curbstomp all infantry

>>93449648
>>93449657
Lol, fuck off back to combat patrol.

I will never understand why some people are obsessed with putting bigger things into KT. It's supposed to be a small firefight between two opposing squads, why would vehicles belong in such a game?

This is one of the reasons KT18 was shit. They were already using heavily modified 40k rules, then started introducing elites, then commanders. Suddenly, you're playing a mini game of 40k. That isn't what KT players want.

>>93449351
I understand there was a fair amount of luck involved, but the one and only time I've played Brood Brothers I ran a Magos and it did 16 mortal wounds in two turning points, all whilst being on conceal and giving all operatives a 5++ and immunity to negative APL modifiers AND being injured. It was definitely my MVP by a long way.

>>93449834

I fully agree, but I could see much lighter vehicles like those trucks the GSCs use being fun for KT. Only makes sense on open boards but it could work IMO

>>93449852
I personally think that a Boss battle as a random event or end of a campaign is always fun.

Things like:
>Your Veteran Marines are now pitted in a desperate struggle against a broodlord during an cleanse and burn campaign.

>A Squad Of Tau has the misfortune of coming upon a Death Company Dreadnought lost amisdt the fog of war.

>Guardsmen clearing a mek-shop find out that the Killa-Kan there wasn't nowhere near as shutdown as they thought, but Brutal Cunnin' made the pilot wait to ambush them.

>Heathkynn Salvagers find out to what extent the Mechanicum will go to retrieve a valuable STC when they deploy a Armiger Warglaive.

>Craftworld Eldar call upon there ancestors to bring a Wraith Lord to stem the implacable advance of your Necron Hieroteks

The key is, the boss should only be back up by a few goons, not like added on top of a bespoke team, this would ideally lnly be used in narratuve play too, not matched play.

>>93446212
Hope for fun Scion rule for proxing my Kasrkin.

>The Gellarpox find out that a Chaos Lord has permitted the use of a possessed Razorback to stop you from corrupt his ill-gotten gains

>Your Genestealer Cult is caught in a a no-knock raid when the Adeptus Arbites utilize a commandeered transport as a force multiplier in the pursuit of Justice.

>The Archon's Right Hands utilize a Drukhari Raider while hunting your Kroot Kinband so as to take you alive for their gladatorial rings in Comorragh

Etc, etc, etc

>>93446212
I was all set to paint a Kasrkin in the old stormtrooper colours for the Darktide boardgame game but will have to hold off now to see what the new scions will look like.

Also going to have to calm the inquisition Scion building, see if I have new sculpts to play with.

>Ecludian Starstiders looking for Relics come across The Dreaded Ambull

>Your Warpcoven is caught of guard picking through a archive from a wartorn world when a Khornate Minotaur and his Fellgors find you, and the Lord of Skulls cares not where the skulls come from.

>>93450034
>>93450082
All fluffy and interesting concepts, but none of which are something that could be represented well in Kill Team whilst keeping the spirit of the game.

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>>93449657
I understand wanting a dreadnought because they are cool as fuck but bloated wound pools are just not the way to do it
It's too heavy an investment to bring down.

Personally, I'm more interested in bringing stuff like rhinos, small vehicles with small armament.
If they're more like support models it should be fine to have bigger stuff. Especially in narrative scenarios they could be awesome.

>>93450280
How would something like a rhino play in your head?

>>93450295
I never uploaded my vehicle homebrew to the homebrew folder, did I
Well, here it is again
l have a whole ruleset for it involving a new method of dealing damage and separating different crews into different activations. It's not entirely easy to explain or get into, but once you have it becomes pretty easy to keep track of, feels really right, and could theoretically scale up to stuff the size of a land raider (not that that would make for a good addition, but it feels nice that it just works even in that case).
A Rhino would be the same stats as the razorback, except it has 10 models transport capacity and only the pintle-mounted storm bolter as a weapon.

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>>93450112
I hear you and raise you a PDF from a Boston(?) gaming store that used this for a narrative campaign they were running. Give it a read, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts.

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>>93450350 (me)
>here it is again
>doesn't press choose file

>>93449852
>That isn't what KT players want.
Some clearly do want it.

I think people mostly want to play shorter games that are more engaging and rules lite, but KT21 has really missed both counts of that so.

>>93450356
I don't understand how the damage table functions, can I get some clarification there? Also, how do these vehicles move through all the terrain on a killteam board. Is a difference made between walkers and tracked vehicles?

>>93450389
I find KT21 engaging and rule lite. Some teams have alot of rules, but the gameplay itself is rather straight forwards

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>>93450354
I have had a quick look. I don't like it. An operative with 48 wounds and four defence dice plus a 5++ is basically invulnerable. There is no way a standard kill team could take that down before casualties render them combat ineffective. But this is nitpicking the wider issue, which is KT21 has never been about killing. It is about a squad of hardened desperados attempting to achieve covert objectives behind enemy lines. This game doesn't showcase furious battles where guardsmen are sweeping out enemy trenches and pushing the front forwards, it shows commanders targeting vulnerable flanks, logistics and communication hubs, decapitating command structures. Look at the KT21 trailer. The Kreig were tasked with destroying a promethium depot fueling ork war machines. They were set to do it without combat and return for new orders but got bumped by an ork patrol. They achieved their objective but died in the process. You don't send your spec op team against enemy armour, and if they ran into it they'd avoid it, boxing around to get to their actual objective.

You don't use scouts to take out hard targets. You use them to scout.

>>93450389
>Some clearly do want it
They are in the minority, and really want to play combat patrol, they just don't realise it. I also agree with >>93450404 , once you have had a few games the rules are simple and intuitive to follow. I can smash a game out easily in 90 minutes, set up to packed away with a similar opponent.