Last thread >>93340028
Have the papertown setting I assembled with collaboration from /tg/ last year. Can you outdo it?
How many fairies are there in the Pond? Hundreds? Thousands? The posts on the Shore Battle said that the Pond ran red with blood when they started killing each other, so that would be a pretty hefty number. Or maybe so many fairies died that day the population still hasn't recovered?
>>93407163Well I guess it comes down to size. I bet there's some math we could do.
>>93407163I feel like keeping the setting small is part of the charm. This isn't some grand continental expanse with miles and miles of land. It's a little pond in the woods, where woodland critters and amphibious friends meet and have suitably tiny adventures.
Mouseguard but with frogs. Frogguard.
What does the hierarchy of the Pond's races look like? Is there a central leader/dominant power? I vote for big gluttonous bullfrogs.
>>93407880Pondfairies kinda seem to be our stand-in for humans
>>93408291How about this?>fairies:humans>frogs:halfling>toads:dwarves>salamander:elf>newt:gnome>turtle:ogre/orc
>>93408345What about snails and shrimp? They're a large part of a pond ecosystem.
>>93408350Livestock? Also what freshwater pond has shrimp? Genuinely curious as I am not an expert on pond ecology.But I chose those for races as they're all something that can go freely above and below water yet intrinsically tied to the pond.
>>93408345what's the point of one-to-oneing like this
>>93408397I agree, no need to directly model each of the pond's races off the standard fantasy fair.
>>93408397Look man, I'm just trying to start a conversation on what the PC races should be and I used common fantasy pc races. If you got something better, go for it.
>>93408411Seconding if we do this it should only be as a tl;dr of sorts
>>93408383Basically all of them - glass/ghost shrimp are ubiquitous. They're just translucent and hide in the margins so you don't see them frequently.
>>93408492NTA but I didnt know that, interesting
>>93408492Well I'll be damned.
You guys need some structure. What are the primary inhabitants of the deepest dark blue sections of the OP map? Is it the same in both or are there two separate factions with some sort of relationship between them?>>93408345I didn't immediately like this for >>93408397 this reason but then >>93408478 this is a valid point. Using a VERY VAGUE equivalency of some kind as a base makes some character development decisions much easier that might otherwise have time wasted arguing. For example in my original question, since Dwarves and Gnomes are the deepest dwelling fantasy races does that mean toads and newts are the two factions controlling the blue holes (actual depth 12 feet)?
>>93405706This map size only reminds me of the worldbuilding of Warriors by Erin Hunter. There's an entire genealogical record that comes with the books and it would probably be good to look at it to determine the population sizes of similarly sized creatures.
>>93409394I forgot to mention the books are about the lives of forest dwelling cats that fight each other. I haven't read the books in a while but the last location they resided at was a pond as well.
>>93408426>>93408845A better standard to go off would be Redwall racesMice are the default/human stand insVoles are the workersRabbits are the soldiersBadgers are the leader typesAnd rats/foxes/vermin are the Evil creaturesI of course think 1:1 anything is highly uncreative, but they should work as a guidelines more than actual rules. Really, making the races distinct without ripping anything off is a good idea.
>>93409394>>93409415Reminds me of the black cat rpg (a spin-off of the black eye). Could also be a good source of inspiration.
>>93409544If we transfer this:>Pondfey are humans>Pondsnails are cats>Diving beetles are dogs>Frogs are mounts and cattle>Fish are wild game >Dragonfly larvae are wolves>Forestfey are elves>Beavers are dwarves>Gremlins are orcs>Gnomes are gnomes>Toads are witches>Pike is a Leviathan>Heron is a dragon>Cormorant is a black dragon
>>93413150I don't particularly like that frogs would be cattle while toads, which are also frogs, aren't. Let's just say both are mage equivalents, with toads as evil witches and warlocks while frogs are good natured wizards or druids.
>>93413487I like the implication Witches are Evil Horses.
>>93413487Agree but I'd rather give both of them lower sentience
Frogs. Tons of frogs. For no reason other than frogs are cool.
>>93413150Beavers are agents of change that disrupt the order of things in the pond. With their attempts to dam up the downward stream they could increase the size of the pond. Ironically, the pond needs the beavers from time to time otherwise the pond would dry up entirely.
>>93413487>>93415873Maybe high sentience is something that only happens to some frogs/toads. Most of them are born and live their lives as cattle. There was mention of an evil gnomish sorcerer last thread, maybe he's introduced chemicals into the water to turn the frogs smart?
>>93416959so it's pretty much a Goofy/Pluto situation.
>>93416959I still think both should be sentient as both should be potential player races. Ideally all player races should be amphibious and small enough to be food for a predatory waterbird or raccoon. That way the players aren't restricted to either the water or the surface and threats like Greycloud are still huge threats to the players.
>>93416510Proposal: Beavers are responsible for the seasonsSummer: No beavers and no dam, The water level of the pond is at its lowest. Due to the water outflow and heat being higher than the water inflow. Fall: Migratory beavers arrive at the pond and build a dam. The dam is blocking the water outflow resulting in raising water levels. Winter: Dam is blocking the water outflow, but the inflow is fairly small. Beavers are breeding. Pond is freezing. The water level is stable.Spring: The pond water is raising strongly due to spring thaw of the nearby mountains. The beavers evacuate the dam with their kits and the due to raised water the dam breaks on day releasing the water downwards lowering the water levels abruptly. Queue summer with the lowest water levels. Sure, some yeara this cycle may be broken or skipped. Beavers don't arrive, or the dam can hold the spring thaw. But these should be fairly rare and can be exotic.
>Not one mention of crayfish/crawdads the entire threadIt’s like you’re not even trying.
>>93416959>>93417203Frogs are too cool not to be a PC race.
Are we Redwall'ing the size of the races to be roughly similar with some exceptions? Or would you want large differences between playable race sizes
>>93417860I vote go mouseguard with it. Everything is the size it really is.
>>93409646The Virgon Goosecuck FEARS the Heron Giga CHAD
>>93409669> drops BTI into pondLmao
>>93417542You mean beavers are responsible for the water level right? Because them controlling the literal seasons would be pretty weird.
>>93417860Redwall is really inconsistent with the race sizes, isn't it? I remember the first book had a horde of rats riding a human-sized horse drawn cart and that never gets mentioned again.
>>93418660As far as I remember it was only the rats that got upscaled a little in order to be a legit threat against stuff like hare, otter or badger. That being said I could see how a few sentient rats could be able to drive a horse cart considered they have thumbs to use tools and stuff.
>>93418794almost everyone has thumbs in redwall though, and the rats weren't driving the cart, they just panicked the horse into running in a random direction then forced a rat to jump on its back when it was slowing down to get it to run againit is still a mystery who built the horse drawn cart in the first place, and why horses aren't smart like other mammals
>>93419227>almost everyone has thumbs in redwall thoughNot diagreeing with that>they just panicked the horse into running in a random direction then forced a rat to jump on its back when it was slowing down to get it to run againExactly. This sounds like something that would probably actually work.>it is still a mystery who built the horse drawn cart in the first place, and why horses aren't smart like other mammalsIt's been far too long since I've read the books in order to satisfyingly answer that. Maybe another anon can help solve that mystery.
>>93408345This sucks and you should genuinely feel bad
>>93413150This also sucks. Why aren't you capable of thinking beyond such constraints? It's like you're purposefully limiting your imagination by equating shit to existing fantasy races. Atrocious.
>>93419475It's just an overview so you don't have to read an introductory text for ten thousand hours
>>93418390Yes, they only control the water levels. This is a seasonal cycle that may overshadow the temperature seasonal cycle for small critters around the pond. Think of the Egyptian Nile flood cycle. I was thinking of beavers as higher beings, whom do their work without realising or caring how they affects others.They would essentially be mythical beasts and not part of the "sentient civilisations".
>>93419475Because we're trying to make an RPG setting, not a book. The restraints simplify planning and make things easier on the DM.
>>93421331I'd rather not make it D&D compatible.
>>93408345It would be better to put them in a pecking order according to their place in the food chain.>>93408492Not in most parts of the world. So not particularly ubiquitous, but that doesn't mean to not include them.
>>93422200It's supposed to be system agnostic, but the most popular systems have classes and races. I don't really see a point in completely reinventing the wheel for a niche setting that probably won't even be put to pdf.
Beware of the terrible hydra!
>>93422537>It would be better to put them in a pecking order according to their place in the food chain.Excellent idea!
>>93423750>All are consumed by the crayfish at the end.The crayfish in general is considered a bad omen or a filthy bottomfeeder, a symbol of decay.The pond fairies have a myth of a ghostly white crayfish that rises from the depths to the surface, where it clacks it's claws in an ancient dirge to foretell an oncoming death of someone close to the listener.
>>93405706Oh, snap, you actually made it look like a giant tits imprint.
>>93424704poor crayfish
>>93422537Oceania, North and South America, north and Sub-Saharan Africa, Europe, and east Asia all have freshwater shrimp, even if they aren't all ghost/glass/grass shrimp.Regardless, livestock is a good use for them.
>>93423750>>93424704The worms of the pond are thought to be the offspring of dirt and water, autogeneously arising without need for birth. Some pixies believe that worms were the first life form in the pond, at the beginning of the world hundreds of years ago, representatives of a forgotten age where all things wriggled and didn't have mothers. Some fanatics even emulate the worms and wriggle around in the dirt, in hopes that they may be everborn. Like the worms, these fanatics often end up as heron food, sharing the fate of those they mimic. Their beliefs are yet to get off the ground.
>>93428884>The worms of the pond are thought to be the offspring of dirt and waterThey also really like to party
>>93422537>a pecking order according to their place in the food chainSeconding this
>>93430122Should top level consumers like the Heron and bigger fish be intelligent or more like forces of nature? I could see arguments for both.
>>93431552Well last thread we had the heron be the dragon equivalent, and we also named it Greycloud. As for fish I think we had a pike last thread that was more or less just a mindless leviathan. Oh and a snapping turtle. Don't remember what we did with him.
>>93431552Intelligent force of nature, who deliberately speaks rarely because he doesn't see food as something worth talking to, or even considering as truly "alive" like he is.
>>93431552The latter
>>93422200I don't really see a problem with that
>>93405706Would some homegrown prompt slop help at all with the creative process? I could gen some stuff later.
>>93436604I think adding some lore and structuring things would be more important. AI slop is a pretty weak aesthetic for a game.
>>93405706dont forget the deep water jews
What kind of underwater biomes exist inside this pond?
>>93437345The Shoreline>Silt, mud, and sand>Affected by weather and seasons>Usually quiet and tranquil>Dotted with several faery villages, not all of them belong to the pond-fey>Good spot for insect fishingThe Shallows>Mud and water>Too shallow for fish, but other forest folk can wade through the rushes>Lots of boats here during the day>The pond-fey regularly raid anyone who strays too far from the shallows>Quite calm and tranquil, though you never know whats lurking below the surface>The Lilypad Fields>Floats all over the pond, provides stable ground above the deeper areas>Casts shade over areas of the pond>Holiday destination for everyoneThe Mud Caves>Muddy>Easily get stuck here if you don't have the right equipment>Mud caves run all over the pond, and, its rumoured, beneath the forest>Not all of them are flooded>Several mines and outlaw hideouts The Pond>The pond-fey domain>Nobody's ever come back from the pond-fey cities before>Fishes and other beasts thrive here>Beware the pond currents (the wizard is still trying to figure out why a pond has currents)The Deep Pond>Where unnatural things breed and prosper>And light does not shine>Frozen blocks of ice at the very bottom, means something heavy is weighing them down>Where the brave and foolhardy meet their end
>>93431907Greycloud is a cool idea: for a fish:A giant catfish,Might be my own personal childhood expirience but cat fish can be quite large and very dangerous.The heron is the dragon, the catfish is more mysterious and less destructive but also unavoidable.If it gets you from the deep waters you’re fucked.But sometimes it just shows up to talk to you.Gives you a prophecy, something like that.Maybe it’s a cursed king, or a representative of some natural force.But it definitely is malevolent sometimes and will kill You, it’s just less of a rampage than the heron is
>>93437679add minnows as livestock and juvenile fish of larger species as game for the shallows.
>>93437679Why don't people return from the fae cities? Seems that fairy folk are pretty common for the setting and are in the running for being a PC race. Are the cities abandoned and haunted by something sinister, or is there some sort of political turmoil that has the cities in an iron grip?
>>93405706What is the general tone we're going for with the setting? If we don't really know, why not go for a tone similar to something presented in Over the Garden Wall or Fantastic Mr Fox? Feel like setting a tone would help in filling out the world.
>>93441880I like whimsical and lighthearted stories taking place with small woodland animals.
>>93442260Can't say I disagree. I like the idea of the big, scary threats only being perceived as such because the players are small little critters and fairies. No matter what's going on in the pond, it's still just a comfy little pond in the woods, the likes of which are prone to picknicks or people feeding the ducks.
>>93442357>>93442260I propose whimsical with some actual wild shit in between,The dichotomy makes it work.
>>93442478How wild we talking? I think its a bit too extreme to have a single pond in the woods be the key to saving the multiverse from eldritch horrors beyond comprehension, but like a tornado or flood could be cool.
>>93442703not wild as in important to the world more wild as in theres actual violent savagery going on, actual creepy stuff hidden between the reeds
>>93441076Young pond fairies shepherd flocks of pale minnows around the shallows, keeping an eye on the open lake for larger fish that might attempt to prey on their flock/school. This is the path that leads to becoming a warrior of the pond fey, after years proving themselves trustworthy with minnow wrangling they will be given the opportunity to learn to hunt/spearfish from older fey. After a few years more of this they will be trusted to raid a foreign fey tribe with the knights of the pond, which happens at least once yearly. All pond fairy men are put though these tests to see their quality, with the most valiant being recruited into the knights of the pond while the rest at minimum receive combat training.
>Butterfly FishOrnamental fish with large, colorful fins that resemble the wings of butterflies. They live in the underwater gardens of the pondfey adding to their enchated beauty.
>>93443387I might be a minority here, but I'm kind of tired of subversion in media. I think it would be a refreshing change of pace if things would just be played straight for a change. Like it's a whimsical setting with faries and will-o'-whisps and talking beavers set in a pond in the woods, and that's just about it. Even better if adventures end in an aesop or fable.My 2 cents.
>>93445787NTA but I know what you mean, though I dont think it has to be entirely a subversion, there's just a bit of spooky mystery and possible danger on the edges of the idyllic settlements
>>93445787i do like the ideas of the fairies having a warlike side to them, but having it secondary to their current state of perhaps growing to a more civilized people could make for a more interesting culture the shadow/mosquito fairies from the last thread were established as a vanquished foe that the remnants of which are hunted down by frog-knights but the kingdom could be in a post-war expansion where the fairies are expanding and in a time of prosperity
>>93445893And that expansion lends itself perfectly to the genre. The players are explorers and adventurers sent out by the fairy kingdom to gather knowledge and details about the pond, among other things.
>>93437345>The Sunlit Shallows Are the uppermost layer of the mill pond, where the sunlight filters through the surface, creating a dappled warm glow. Here, algae and water plants form a lush, emerald-green carpet, swaying gently with the current. Tiny, iridescent fish dart around their scales catching the light. Delicate water sprites weave through the foliage. This area where the waters are clear is a haven of tranquility and light. Rarely does a predator stray from the depths here. If you remove the overgrown layer from the ground of the pond, it is even suitable for growing various water vegetables.
>>93405706I just realized that we don't even have a name for the pond. The pond deserves a name. Something on the same level as the hundred acre wood.
>>93448569Usually ponds don't really have interesting names. Millpond maybe?
>>93448569Yeah almost all ponds around where I live have really lame names. Sometimes I think it's just based off the guy who found it or how it roughly looks topographically. So you get names like Chuck's apond or Beaver pond.
>>93407163Roughly guessing, since they ride toads and their population must be something like 2:1 on the fairies favor if horses-human relationships are something to go by so... A few hundreds? Plus a pair of hundreds more scattered outside population hubsDo you guys think the /out/ and /an/ guys would answer that?
>>93416510>>93417542>>93418390>You mean beavers are responsible for the water level right? Because them controlling the literal seasons would be pretty weird.From the Pond's inhabitants point of view they might as well be, perhaps they are regarded as semi-mythical being given their size and influence on the water's flow, even more so sine they keep the trees in check>>93420395This is the right idea, it sounds cool
>>93420395>They would essentially be mythical beasts and not part of the "sentient civilisations".They live quite a bit downstream judging from the map and maybe they prefer to swim on the other side of their dam so they don't really come into contact with the inhabitants of the pond
Wouldn't the beavers fucking with the water level affect the mill wheel and with it the millersman which in response would put an end to the beaver problem?
>>93448671Sneeds hole
>>93448779Not necessarily. So long as the problem is downstream of the mill it should be fine.
>>93445787I agree anon but I didn’t mean it as subversive.I am myself thinking of Walter Moers Books, that are whimsical while still having plots with actual danger and monsters.Just that the way the world works and the story is told Is cozy.I guess what I’m saying for anglos to understand is redwall opposed to winds kn the willows. When it comes to the scope of adventure.Basically make sure you can run this in something that isn’t ryutama
>>93448671>>93448607My take:Lurchboden Meaning „amphibian bottom“Some pond names from my area:Weihermühle and Wilfrieddteich,
>>93449339>WeihermühleHow about "Mühlenweiher"?
Saw those posts from a few hours ago about tone and theme and I can't believe nobody brought up Secret of NIMH as a possible source of "vibes"
I had this image in my head of Pond Skaters/Water Striders being used to pull leaf boats like carriages
How does he fit into the scheme of things?Guardian deity?Lovable misfit?
>>93449391Forgot image.
What sort of manmade objects get lost/used in the pondwhat sort of time period is it for those outside of the pondrealm
>>93449372So our style sheet so far is:>Aesops Fabels>Redwall>Wind in the Willows>Zamonien>Mouse Guard>The Secret of NIMHAll in a pseudo-european medieval-ish fantasy settingI'd add>The Animals of Farthing Wood Perhaps a conflict between preserving the ecology of the pond and some kind of pollution (could also be magical)?>Watership DownThe obligatory dose of gore and trauma in your "childrens media" also some weird animistic religious hare cult shit>Over the Garden WallGood inspiration for everything whimsical and comforting plus some kids friendly folk horror sprinkled in>David the Gnome booksJust perfect visuals and aesthetic for this kind of thing>Pettson and FindusFor the real OG's
>>93449418Modern>shopping cartsFantasy>swords
>>93449391>>93449396He's just the universal self-insert, keep him out of the picture, he'll always be there just outside the frame.
>>93449396Based.
>>93449423I was imagining something more ..."useable" by our people, like homes in cans, or using bottlecaps for tabletops ect Or in a more strictly fantasy setting, sewing needles as swords a-la borrowers, coins as armor ect
>>93449422Id add Disneys Amphibia because it captures the feeling of a Dark Swamp with comfy wholesome frogs perfectly
>>93449422>Perhaps a conflict between preserving the ecology of the pond and some kind of pollutionyou're gonna have to add Ferngully to that list then
>>93449423>>93449418i like Anachronistic stuff.Wind in the Willows seems to be mostly modern or early modern.Redwall is obviously medieval buti think some modern elements are fine.Amphibia usually does this by having Flintstones Tech which i find funny too.Overall, yes, the Frog Knights should fight the Dark Fay using lances and swords,but if they also buy their Pickled Flies and put them into shopping carts id find that hillarious
>>93449444>i like Anachronistic stuff.Gyrocopter made out of sticks, string and those spinning mapleseeds
>>93449437Haven't watched this yet but if there aren't any complaints we can add it I guess. Btw for an aesthetical guideline I'd throw in Faeries of the Faultlines by Iris Compiet, Lady Cottington's Pressed Fairy Book, The Arthur Rackham fairy book, The Dark Crystal movie and a book called "Faeries" by Brian Froud and Alan Lee. If you can't find the books just google the artist.
>>93449471holy shit you just reminded me of the spiderwick books
>>93449486
>>93449444>i like Anachronistic stuff.I don't which is why I'd prefer settling for an at least vague time period from real life. Me not liking anachronisms might be due to autism though. Doesn't have to be exact btw. Could just be "somewhere between early medieval, late medieval, renaissance and early industrial revolution".
>>93449496Tony DiTerlizzi's art from many of his sources is a great sort of place for the vibes and look of this I imagine
>>93449486Man I loved the shit out of that fieldguide as a kid! DiTerlizzi should be added to that inspiration list as a major influence indeed
what sort of adventures actually happen here?
>>93405706Quick Picturei made:Haftlbert Sternhagel-Vollnig, of the Jeinschenjö Volnigs, Captain of the Unkenhagen Newt Militia,In his day to day life, a renowed dance instructor, specialized in Miredance and Bullfrog-stomp, all he brings to fight the Ugly-fay of the Summer months is Yew tree Needle (his neighbours consider him particulary bold for this) and his homemade Quilted tabard.His loving wife Annalena Sternhagel-Vollnig, nee-Sternhagel, herself renowed for her sweet demeanor and natural beauty, if not for her sewing skills, having adorned it herself.Lacking an actual family crest, she opted for a big heart to represent their love, however she accidently sewed it on the wrong way around.It still is haftlberts greatest pride.
>>93449784newts are rad, nice drawing
>>93449418I think the setting should be firmly pre-industrial. A timeless, dream-like setting if you will, like Over the Garden Wall. Anything before that goes.
>>93449784Very nice and cute anon. Love it. I wonder what adventures Captain Haftlbert has gone on?
