Why would someone devote themself philosophically to evil?
>>93427442Because it makes them feel nice/gives them power easier than doing it the good way.
>>93427442because evil is an essential part of life, of existential balance, there is no good without evil, nor evil without good, if no one governs evil, then everything would be chaos.someone has to sacrifice themselves and become the villain, having beautiful women, lots of money, legions of soldiers, not following the rules, it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
>>93427442I could think of a view reasons 1. They view 'Good' as inherently cringe or hypocritical on some cosmic level. Hurt people hurt people. They have a specific grudge against "Good"(rightfully or wrongfully. Maybe this person was wronged by a Paladin in some way and they therefore view the idea of Good as a farce used to hide internal Evil. They are just being honest! 2. Promises of power and domination over others etc. Lots of people will do terrible things if they can gain from it. 3. This person views Good as a faulty or weak concept to begin with. Why serve Torm or Tyr when you can serve Bane? All the Order stuff still happens but you can also get personal influence, power etc. All societies are built on threats of violent enforcement, even Lawful Good ones. It is inherent that the strong rule the weak. 4. Utter disdain for the institutions of Good. Maybe you are a nihilist who thinks Shar has the right idea. Good is false hope. It's a lie. Nothing is ACTUALLY Good when it comes down to it.
>>93427442Some people are just entirely selfish and don't care if others suffer to gain more. Absolutely no sense of empathy. It would be an easy sell for them. Others might have a sense of empathy that only extends to their kinship group or clan. One can easily imagine a group worshiping an evil god or the like if the evil is mostly inflicted on outgroup peoples while they reap the rewards. A third idea is that the individual or group might genuinely believe that the 'evil' is 'good'. E.g. an extremely and militant form of antinatalism.But considering it's /tg/ it's often not worth thinking that far. DOing it for the evulz Is enough for a game. Who cares why the Lich Galthazor is evil, he's about to destroy the city and his lair is full of treasure.
>>93427442What sort of manichean cartoonslop is this question? There's no such thing, anon. Everyone thinks they're doing "good". You can firebomb hundreds of thousands of civilians, and still rationalize it as "good".
>>93427512>there is no good without evilwrong
>>93427778Well, no. In DnD Good and Evil are literal manifest concepts. You'd know this if you weren't a newfag. Objective Good and Evil are very real in Dungeons and Dragons and Gygax was always clear about this.
>>93427778plenty of people in real life know they're doing evil shit and love it
>>93427442Some people devote their lives to My Little Pony and Sonic the Hedgehog porn. Someone dedicating their life to evil is a lot easier to understand than that shit.
>>93427442It's fun.
>>93427791How do you know you are doing right if you don't know what is wrong?
>>93427791
>>93427794>in DnDOP didn't mention anything about DnD, faggot. This is /tg/ not r/DnD.>inb4 muh blackguard png implies that we're discussing the FR setting
>>93427820Same reason I know when my pluming works and my trash is picked up.
>>93427794Gygax was also not keen on the Blackguard class because in his view the opposite of the Paladin was the Assassin.
>>93427809Nah. Even Sabbathean-Frankists and their ilk rationalize doing "evil" as being for the ultimate "good" of bringing their moshiach to earth.
>>93427843nope, plenty of serial killers haven't rationalized shit and still killed people for the fun of it
>>93427833Drrrr drrrr drrrrrrrThe art is from DnD you moron.
>>93427831>you can know something's wrong and still do it.Under that logic, you can also do it without knowing that it is bad.
>>93427442superiority complexesissues"its not good enough for me but its good enough for you"less of the smart ruling the stupid - more of - those who do know and can get away with it - have easier means to control those who do not know and cant get away with itwhy am i explaining this - this is all blackrock and the jews fault now all these stupid labels are making waves and people are divided instead of realising "hey we've lost total autonomous freedom in not only our neighborhoods and homes - but also our livelyhoods and hobbies"
>>93427442Who says they're devoted philosophically anyway?Assassins take cash to murder people and Clerics can follow evil gods for their own benefit just as much as for having crazy beliefs.
>>93427874Because Blackguards literally are devoted to evil on an ideological level, or at least sworn to its service.
what setting
>>93427836You can't compare good and evil with plumbing and garbage.We are talking about morality and law, something not tangible.
they could just be a byproduct of their world.
>>93427850>for the fun of itDoing something for the thrill of it, isn't the same as "philosophical evil", it's just hedonism and individualism.
>>93427895just because you have fun doing it doesn't make it not evil
>>93427856I thought bots were sophisticated enough to know what >inb4 meansKeep calling me newfag, retard.
>>93427879Blackguards are dumb. As are Anti-Paladins. Even the original article references snidely fucking whiplash.
>>93427907Hiding behind inb4 doesn't make you less of a mental deficient
>>93427442Because its fun, but people have problems admittibg it even when they fellow evil, so they create hypocritical explanation for their action.
>>93427914>>>r/DnD
>>93427935I accept your concession
>>93427442its not so much they're devoted to evil as much as they fell into vice. The Paladin is highly inspired by the Arthurian Romances and the Knights of Camelot, these are virtue tales (at least partially) and so the Blackguard, being the "anti-Knight" would have fallen into vice. In many cases the vice in question is actually Pride, this is noticeable among the NeetShe fanboys who think the "will to power" of "master morality" is a viable morality structure (it isn't) and that NeetShe was anything other than an insane loser. "I deserve power because of X" might make total sense at first, especially if X is something reasonable and a good, however, how many stories in every culture revolve around "power corrupts"? Many people fall to evil because they think they're good, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" and all, but they put goals before principles and got themselves all twisted around and fucked up in the head.
>>93428032Read the players guide faggot
>>93427442For power obviously
>>93428090No! You read the Faggot's guide player
>>93427888I can and I will. Notice how nobody makes a fuss over the law until someone breaks it. If you do everything right people don't know you did anything at all.
>>93427888>morality>lawYou wouldn't happen to swing chickens around your head once a year, would you?
>>93428090which player's guide? I'm going to focus on the source material and the universal archetypes behind these ideas instead of some literal-who's bullshit attempt to make a 3edgy5me character option. It's not my fault some loser completely misunderstands the source material. also>faggotthe fags at wotc would be so deeply triggered if they'd hear you say that anon, they'd be liberally shaking all over the gameroom, unable to roll dice, pissing and shitting themselves more than usual. They'd kick you from the game, get you fired from your job, and ban you from roll20 AND discord. They'd let you know how much of a dun goof you just did for doin a heckin homophobia. The very people who want to make good evil and evil good are the people you're appealing to. I hope you aren't around children, you freaks shouldn't be allowed around children.
>>93428159>Notice how nobody makes a fuss over the law until someone breaks itWhat fantasy world are you living in, m8
>>93428159>Notice how nobody makes a fuss over the law until someone breaks it.If a law exists for a situation then somebody has already established in that situation what is lawful and what is not and with that you've defeated your own position. You just make it worse for your position when you conclude with>If you do everything rightwhich means right and wrong are also established in your argument.>If you do everything right people don't know you did anything at all.If you do everything wrong people don't know if there are no witnesses. Your statement is weak and adds nothing to your case.
>>93427442Because they're DRIVEN. They have AMBITION. Good lets you live your life and then MAYBE get rewarded in the afterlife? Sell your whole life away for a potential reward? Sounds like cuckold behavior to me. No, I'm gonna get my pleasures NOW. I'm gonna make it big in THIS life. When that stops being fun? I'll take one of the myriad paths evil offers for eternal life. That's right. I'm gonna get my money and stack it FOREVER. Life is a sick joke we've been saddled with, so I'm gonna do all I can to WIN.
>>93427442>Why would someone devote themself philosophically to evil?
>>93427879Blackguards have a specific hate boner for Chaotic creatures & individuals. They believe the differential between Good & Evil is a lie, there's just people who have the stomach to enforce order and the people who don't.
>>93427442Because it allows them to fulfill their desires no matter the cost to others. When you’re devoting yourself to “evil”, you’re typically fueled by selfishness above all else, a need to fulfil your dream even if it crushes innocents and/or those you care about into the dirtGriffith is a perfect example of someone rationally choosing to devote themselves quite literally to “the Idea of an Evil” for the sake of fulfilling their dream.
>>93427874While I agree with your general sentiment, it's a presupposition in OP's question that they are are devoted philosophically to evil. Coming up with examples of how people could engage in what you consider evil practices without being devoted to evil philosophically misses the point. You need either to say why they are so devoted or you need to demonstrate that OP's question assumes a false premise, as no one ever would so devote themselves, and thus can have no meaningful answer other than that they wouldn't.
>>93427879I always envisioned Blackguards as ex-Paladins with the ruthless dictator-personality type, where they are willing to use dark magic, break laws, use dirty tricks, and commit atrocities and genocide to enforce their version of “order” on the world. A Blackguard is a perfect mixture of Stalin and Hitler, an unholy warrior that uses fear and tyranny to inspire, whereas the Paladin inspires others with their deviation and heroism.
>>93428717>Hitler, an unholy warrior that uses fear and tyranny to inspire>the Paladin inspires others with their deviation and heroism.Which one of these is a decorated war hero who rose from nothing to lead his people with overwhelming democratic support?
>>93427442Why would someone devote themself philosophically to good?
>>93428920>decorated>war veteran >voted into powerNone of those traits precludes someone from being evil. Invading countries to fulfill your dream of a 1000 year Reich is evil. Killing or deporting undesirables because they don’t fit into your vision of the future is evil. Breaking treaties on technicalities to justify aggressive expansion is evil. Even Satan was once the most beautiful angel in heaven.
>>93429005You're changing the topic. You said Hitler was a blackguard, but then defined a paladin by traits and actions that describe Hitler.
>>93429116No ESL, I said that an ‘ideal’ Blackguard was a fusion of Hitler and Stalin in terms of personality type. I picked those two because they are are the archetypical example of “dictators” that people think of when they hear the word; not that Hitler or Stalin were blackguards because obviously both were complicated people with a mixture of positive and negative personality traits irl.
>>93429176>the archetypical example of “dictators” that people think of when they hear the wordSorry, I thought we were talking about reality and not whatever pavlonian normies are trained to think of when they hear a given trigger word.By this logic, you're entirely correct.
Lawful Evil think of evil as necessary to cull the weakness and punish the incompentent. There are positions of authority, but you have to constantly deserve it by all means necessary, or be forever stuck licking boot. You believe you're just doing what needs to be done.Neutral Evil consider everyone just as shitty on the inside, and better others to suffer than me. Me first in all things. You're just taking care of yourself.Chaotic Evil is just pleasure, obsession, uncontrollable drive to harm and hurt. Its an irresistable compulsion. You can't help but do it to see what happens, to satisfy the urge, feel that thrill again.
>>93427442Looks cool.
Hot chicks.
Feels good.
If we're specifically talking about D&D cosmology and as a character you're aware enough to realize Evil is an objective force in the universe, throwing in with Team Evil gives you a very high risk but very high reward afterlife potential. The neutral alignments don't have great afterlives, and while the good afterlives are fine, eventually you just end up merging with them and ceasing to be an individual. The evil afterlives suck, but if you're sufficiently strong, cunning, and/or evil enough you can retain some semblance of self and begin climbing up the hierarchy of evil outsiders. As an evil person you also have the largest pool of life extending options like lichdom, which gives you extra time to obtain power and begin bargaining with evil powers in advance of your inevitable death.
>>93427442Because they enjoy making others suffer. Period.It's not fucking difficult.
>>93427895Listen to the lyrics of "When I'm Evil" by Voltair. It explains it pretty well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxJrjV4PNXA
The problem with being intentionally evil in most of these fantasy worlds is that afterlives generally exist and there's almost always a heaven and hell, or some equivalent. So spending 50 some-odd-years being evil would never be worth an eternity in hell when you could just be good and go to heaven.I know this was all based on nonsense real world religions but the conceit of these fantasy worlds is that it's all true, so in that case why would you ever be evil?
The destruction and subjugation of the weak at the hands of the strong is just and encoruages more people to become strong.
>>93427442>Why would someone devote themself philosophically to evil?I've always been a fan of somebody devoting themselves to evil because they're on some kind of aggressive Gnostic off-tilt rampage. That the inherit cruelty present in creation is so unjust, so repugnant, and so overwhelmingly offensive at every holistic level, that the only moral response to life is to reject it. There's a saying in reference to Jesus' hesitation to be crucified in the garden of Gethsemane and his struggle on the cross that goes something like, "the suffering unique to the human experience is so great, and so overwhelming, that if God ordained himself to endure it he too would doubt his own existence."
>>93427843>>93427778Curtis LeMay was evil and he knew it and was very up front about the fact that if the US had lost WW2 he and the rest of its leadership would have been tried as war criminals for the whole "firebombing civilian areas" thing (which he was a proponent of).Today you can see plenty of Russia supporters online celebrating the suffering and death of Ukrainian civilians and gloating over their misery. I don't think they see themselves as good for that; they just exist in a moral area where evil is ok as long as they're the ones dishing it out to other people.
>>93427442Because it's BASED, you bumbling boob! Honestly, villains these days, with their JRPG moralizing and woe-is-me-Batman backstories. Sometimes you just want to seize absolute power and use it to annoy the nearest bowl-cutted beach blonde barbarian! NYEH!
>>93427442Same reason they do in real-life.
>>93427820he is a proponent of the privation theory of evil where evil is just the absence of good, as opposed to the dichotomy theory of good and evil as being two distinct factions opposed to one another.
>>93430084Wasn't there an actual RPG where you could follow a god of pedophilia or something? I have the dimmest memory of such a thing and the hilarious discourse that followed.
>>93427442It grants material benefits. That's the only reason anyone does anything.
>>93427442my nigga in christ have you MET some of the people we share this blue ball with? some people are just downright nasty and have no interests beyond making others miserable
>>93430027When Misanthrope and nihilism become tangible powers.
>>93430034Obviously the US (and the Allies more broadly) committed (and comits) unimaginable horrors that are swept under the rug, but I don't think that knowing that you'd be punished by your enemy if you'd lost means that you consider yourself to be evil. It just means that you know that what you're doing would cause your enemy to punish you out of revenge or outrage or whatever.Same for the slav brotherwar(s). They presumably think that their (perceived) enemies dying is a good thing, which is a pretty normal thing to believe.I'm not comparing the above with the following, but it illustrates my point: the widow who steals to feed her kids knows that she can get punished if she gets caught, but it doesn't mean she thinks that she is doing evil, just that she knows she is doing a crime.
>>93428920Neither. Because his party had to buy votes from another to get a working majority after everyone finished voting.
>>93430513Like in any other parliamentary democracy?
>>93430128I believe pathfinder had an evil god which was basically the god of candy in a van.
>>93427442>>93427794Literally nobody gives a shit about DnD's retarded metaphysics.Even the "evil" characters in DnD don't devote themselves to evil, they just devote themselves to causes people define as evil. Their motivation isn't "I'm going to do this because it's evil".Demons do nasty things because they derive pleasure from it. They don't do them because the things are evil.Your question is childish
>>93430718Your post is childish, obviously you're wrong because there are people who give a shit, go cry about it.
>>93427442Evil is just putting direct self-interest before all else.If you compare the amount of effort it takes to instil Good values into people (collectivism, self sacrifice, charity) to how natural Evil values are it's weird how over-represented Good is in fiction settings
>>93430724No, there aren't. The amount of estrogen you'd have to consume to care about such asinine, vapid drivel removes you from humanity.>Why would people devote themselves to evil?Because they hate civilization so they donate to the poor and pander to the weak and sickly in order to corrupt society. Goodness is subjugating or eliminating the weak in order to allow society to flourish.
What is evil?
>>93430864Yes, yes, cry hard for me. Cry so hard that your politics fall out.
>>93430890Off your meds again?
>>93430864>This anon knows.>>93430724>This anon does not.
>>93427442Because they see it as essentially necessary, as the ultimate truth to embrace for them to "progress" beyond stagnation/doom. There is a version of Asmodeus story (the d&d one) where he was originally a celestial/angel that gradually shifted towards evil during the early battle of Law vs Chaos and the completion of the great wheel cosmology was achieved exactly because of that, Asmodeus managed to succeed because ultimately crossed that line.
>>93427442“It is not the slumber of reason that engenders monsters, but vigilant and insomniac rationality.”
>>93430980Has D&D fiction ever portrayed a character who actually believed that, or is it just a post-hoc justification that they tend to gravitate towards? My understanding is that the only true devotees of evil are always good beings who got turned inside-out. Sometimes they're slowly corrupted as they use good ends to justify increasingly-coercive means and they learn to like it, other times they just break all at once and choose to become the opposite of what they were, but a creature that starts out as evil will never have that 'the evil is necessary' mindset, it's exclusive to formerly-good beings who turn evil and need to rationalize it.
>>934308641 you are retarded2 thats why you should be eliminated
>>93430956fuck yeah man the german is just the modern hunhe will destroy all in his pathburn him on the pire of his sin
>>93431047Shalom moshe
>>93431042That's the spirit
>>93430915dude if you think there has ever been a civilization where "he is weak so he should be purged" wasnt just a power grab, then there is no way you have the social awareness to not be putty to the rhetoric of anyone and everyone. you cannot be trusted to have a vote.hell maybe MAYBE if you ran across the appalachian mountains without clothes or a gun MAYBE youd have proof enough of your strength to have a point despite your lack of properly firing neurons. but no. you are nothing close to what you imagine a man should be and this depressing melancholic faggotry isnt doing your position any favors. but you know whatcolt made men equal so come inside out of the rain if you'r willing to not be a bitch about everything
>>93431096>I don't like it so it's a power grabsure is summer in this thread>all this edgy postingLol. You are small. Don't try to talk big. It makes you seem like a jester
>>93431096>he thinks civilization is built without "a power grab"lol>he talks of civilization and individualism in the same breathlmao
>>93430034>Today you can see plenty of Russia supporters online celebrating the suffering and death of Ukrainian civilians and gloating over their misery.I tend to see the opposite, actually. Ukraine supporters taking sick joy over dead Russians. Honestly disturbing...
>>93431147Nta - get fucked
>>93427791Someone thinks they know more than thousands of philosophers.
>>93430458Third worlder
>>93430458>slav brotherwarThe cringiest part of Tussian propaganda just hereKill yourself
>You are small. Don't try to talk big.
>>93431132chuckles the clown has no argumentonly a funny nose
>>93431128a jester knows a joke when he hears one speak
>>93431073the orcs are literally wearing german helmetsbesides you know im not one of them because the funny hat men dont care about people they already conquered
>>93431157Yes.Evil is just the absence of good. If good didn't exist then evil would continue.
>>93431157philosophersthe people well known for agreeing with each other
>>93431163The standards of living in my nation are the envy of the world, and my nation has probably pollinated yours like a bee does a flower, if it didn't found it outright. Try again.>>93431165>Russian and/or Ukrainians aren't Slavs, and anyone who says so is a Russian propagandistWhatever you say, galaxybrain.
>>93431250Good is just the absense of evil. If there was no evil nobody would have to try to be good
>>93431215>German helmet is when brim>longnose tribe doesn't humiliate Germans anymore (except that their chieftain still kvetches about them during his speech in the US congress)
>>93427442As an attempt to legitimize their evil, maybe? Like, if you're evil fucker and can't quite manage the self-deception of imagining yourself good, you might as well build a philosophy around your evil, try to make it seem like something grand and glorious and transcendent.
>>93431096>dude if you think there has ever been a civilization where "he is weak so he should be purged" wasnt just a power grabGreeks actually believed it and didn't use it as a power grab. Not that I'm making any excuses for the modern power-fantasy manarchist, I'm not, the people that he identifies as weak are always the ones who make him feel weak himself (an unsubmissive woman, a happy practitioner of another religion, a homosexual who might look at his butt, it's never about real eugenics it's always about social boogiemen that he's scared of).
>>93431283There cannot be no evil. That's like saying there could be no darkness or cold. It is just the natural state of the universe
>>93431342That makes the whole discussion moot, doesn't it?
>>93431298Yea, but the thing is, people who are born evil and live their whole lives evil don't have any internal drive to legitimize their evil. They need only to legitimize themselves in the eyes of others, and labeling yourself as a CHAMPION OF EVIL is literally the worst way to do that, it's the kind of thing that no one would ever do unless they used to be good. A heroin addict will always fetishize needles, even if they get clean or they move on to other drugs they'll still have warm feelings towards needles. That's how fallen paladins feel about their sanctimonious justifications, there's no real value except for the nostalgia associated with their first high.
>>93431340>psychobabbleLol. I've had gay dudes grab at my junk without batting an eyelash and have a thing for bratty girls that always want their way. You literally have zero clue what you're talking about.While those things are bad for society, they aren't under my definition of weak nor do they make me feel emasculated.Is this the kind of vapid ideology reddit is putting out nowadays?
>>93431363The discussion is moot. It's a retarded, nonsensical question. Nobody "devotes themselves to evil" as is evil was an end in of itself.
some civilizations and some peoples learn that power is all that matters and that leads to evil, i write this ogre warlock character who made pacts with demons in order to fight back invaders in his land
>>93427442>option 1: "I am only what the gods have made me"
>>93431412>option 2: "I only follow the law of mother nature, the law of the cruelest and most ruthless"
>>93431417>option 3: "do you know what you call a man who only believes in himself? He is called a GOD!"
>>93431379That's refreshing if true, but it also makes it sound like you're just goofing and making it up as you go. Since you entered a thread about D&D evil in order to say that no one wants to talk about D&D evil, then went on to say that anyone who wants to talk about D&D evil is a low-t subhuman and that weakness is evil and that the weak should be purged. I think that you would have complained about women and homos if the conversation had gone differently, but now I've called you out so you need to change direction or it will ruin your high.
>>93431271Kill yourself.
>>93431271The "brotherhood" exists only on your deranged mind. Russians use it as an excuse for conquest but they always felt superior. There is no sense of kinship.
>>93431340ok fair spartans are a very obvious pop cultural example of this behavior. remind me who got stomped and conquered. oh yeaheveryone
>>93427442only a lawful evil character would devote themselves to evil, like an anti paladinneutral evil is just an asshole and chaotic evil just wants to stab people
>>93427442They could simply be a sadist. There's also reasons that depend on what exactly is evil: if being evil simply means opposing good, then I can think many reasons to hate most forces of good and especially deities that you see in fiction. On the other hand if evil is simply a shorthand for being selfish, then it's very easy to think of justifications on why you matter more than others. And if Evil is some cosmic force or something, then I guess you could simply have accidentally fallen into a vat of it or something.
>>93431379you indeed have balls to talk about vapid while calling anything but success a measure of absolute definitive strength.if strength is the metric of our society then the strong wont just risethey are by definition those who risethe weak have and always will cull themselvesanything else, any measured institutionalization by which to metric strength is coping
>>93431454not necessarilyfor examplelets depart from the metaphysical and take a rational approach a chaotic evil character will decide that any institution even if it ultimately serves them is a barrier to absolute personal indulgencepure idsomeone can use organization to position themselves against the anti paladin tooby devoting themselves to the anihalation of order as well as kindness they perpetuate rule of strengthby eliminating trust and teamwork and compassion from the world they prolong their own rampage
>>93431437The thread isn't about DnD.People who talk about evil like it's some nebulas force in of itself and could be a characteristic of someone or something someone is a devotee of are low-t.Women being bad for politics and homos being degenerative to society has nothing to do with them being inherently weak.Weak people being catered to is a drain on society. Pandering to the lowest common denominator hinders progress.Regardless, that wasn't necessarily a manifesto; it was an example of how evil and good are merely subjective and that nobody is going around being evil for the sake of being evil. They have defined goals that they hold as valuable which other people detest.
>>93431496goal is too nebulous a term for what you said to be a counter to anything. it could mean anything and thus means essentially nothing. for example a bully is cruel for self gratification. this is a "goal" for sure but nothing beyond the act of cruelty is accomplished. no greater aim progressed. many of them dont even get anything out of it anymore. they just do it to do it. evil for the sake of it is very real.
>>93427442Because
>>93431482>only the strong riseFalse. There are many factors that can elevate one to a position beyond their capabilities and once a certain portion of weak have risen, society collapses. History is littered with cases of this.That is why people stopped doing monarchies, because it had a propensity to put people in positions outside their level of competence then they'd fuck everything up.
>>93431340>people who believe in hierarchy are all secretly just scared of le gaysCompelling. Now face the bog please.
>>93431496homos cannot be a degeneration, they are a consistent anomaly. degeneration implies a gradual progress but a homosexual is the least likely person to reproducewomen arent the weakest link in societychildren are
>>93427442just for the shits'n'giggles innit?
>>93431520incorrectyour social connections, ability to scheme and navigate, hide, knuckle under, dissapear. these are all measures of strength on par and in fact surpassing all others. this is because humans on mass are stronger than any one, therefore whatever lets you use the power of others to your own ends is the most optimal form of strength
>>93431520Nah. Strength is whatever works. Complaints about weal rising come exclusively from people who are weak themselves and try to discredit the strength of others to feel better.
>>93431511It isn't nebulas in the slightest. You're just confusing yourself with your own psychobabble.The goal of the bully is self gratification. By definition he is not "bullying" for the sake of evil as a general concept, but for his own ends. Whether or not he achieved the desired outcome is irrelevant. He still had a desired outcome that in no way was conceptualized as "do evil".If we're really going to get into the weeds on it, the same can be said of "good" acts. People do them to feel better about themselves, not because it is good. They justify it as wanting to be good, when in reality their subconcious goal was self-gratification.Happiness is the only true end in of itself. There is no true altruism. Good is merely the fabricated structure by which we can channel self-gratification into something productive for society, but it has no universal meaning on earth.
>>93431496>The thread isn't about DnD."Blackguard" is a D&D class/archetype referring to a paladin of evil (but older, from before paladins were allowed to be evil). You're welcome. Evil in D&D actually IS a force unto itself and there's nothing nebulous about it. You're welcome again. Next time you feel the need to do the manarchist strut and cry about identity politics, try to stop and check yourself and see where that feeling is come from, odds are that you're just wrong about something simple, in which case you should just learn your lesson and move on.
>>93431549>>93431538Circular logic.You aren't talking about an inherent quality. Just an end state. Anyone can be given tons of money and thus be in a state of success without any strong characteristics. This is the type of mechanism that leads to ruin, because it is not self sustaining.>>93431527>the only way to influence the world is reproductionWut?
>>93431556>baby's first deconstructionYou love to see it.
>>93431556you just repeated why its nebulousgoal is anythingevil mc eviltones goal is to spread evil for evilnesshe has a goal 'pggers'all you did was put a word "goal" in front of what the other dude said and then pat yourself on the pack for getting to the root everyone overlooked
>>93431556NTA but he was right to correct you. The adjective is 'nebulous'. 'Nebulas' isn't even a word as 'nebulae' is the plural of 'nebula'. Consistent misspellings of a word you're only using to try to fake eloquence place you so firmly in midwit territory that your desperate spiel about weakness and moral relativism can be safely discarded as the same. This thread was always about D&D. It uses D&D 3.5 art of the Blackguard in the OP. if you truly hate the weak, kill yourself.
>>93431564Nothing in the OP says "Blackguard".Moreover, the term predates DnD.Also you're the one who brought up identity politics. Which is par for the course with you discord tourists since it is all you think about.Regardless, even pretending it IS a dnd thread, the question is still moot. Since it's a magical force that exists then there need be no reason for devoting yourself to it. It's just like paying your taxes. Thing exists and is a part of life that you can go visit. No reason to choose any other alternative since it can provide the same benefits.
>>93431585Literally not about DnDSee>>93431598Oh no. I misspelled a word. The irony is that focusing on spelling over content is the ACTUAL sign of a midwit.Cute that you thought you were cooking tho
>>93431580No, he doesn't. Not unless it's a story for literal infants.>>93431578I guess you're done then
>>93431556>If we're really going to get into the weeds on it, the same can be said of "good" acts.oh god not this shit.ok oklisten up boyif someone not enjoying doing the act of good makes the act not goodthen the enjoyment of doing an act of good cant make the act not goodits a mechanistic fallacy. if you used a supercomputer to predict what someone was going to do through chemical analysis that doesn't make their actions not their decision. nor would the rules of nature which made those facts of chemistry either. if we are a predictable bundle of chemical actions then there isnt some ultimate should be non chemical comparison.you are your brain and so forth. therefore there is no stop gap between your mechanistic self and your decisions. ergo: predictable or not it extends from you.the fact that you feel good doing good things is a good thing. it doesnt make the act not good.that saidregardless of the fractured nature of that argumenti also contextually disagreethat the philosophy on this topic exists shows a desire for higher ideal and that we have a notion of good and kindness beyond what givers us dopamine
>>93431437>all threads are about dnd>let me bring out faggots and feminism constantly and unprovoked>let me tell you what you would have said ifUnbelievable. Why come here when you have the rest of the internet already, gaylord?
>>93431446>RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIAAll European wars are brotherwars. Slavic brotherwars are just a subcategory.
>>93431598>The amount of estrogen you'd have to consume to care about such asinine, vapid drivel removes you from humanity.Yes, cry harder, cry harder for me. Cry until your vapid identity politics fall out of your pocket and onto the floor for everyone to see.Now get huffy because you don't know what "BG.png" means, and because you can't identify an image of a D&D blackguard or a thread about D&D morality. Don't blame yourself, blame someone else, double down as hard as you can. We love to see it.
>>93431623it fits the boundaries you set forth what you seem to be demanding is an action beyond analysissomething which cant even be conceptualizedand call anything else be it greater or more foul in scope or meager in its entirety, "not evil"which is "like just your opinion man"
>>93431632I was right though, he's doesn't know anything, he's just here to talk shit.
>>93431527Imagine if you will, a group of people so repulsive that nature forbids them from reproducing, so instead they groom your kids.Pretty degenerate, huh?
>>93431629>wrote all that just to completely misunderstand the pointI never said the goal undermined the result. In fact, my post explains that teaching people to enjoy doing "good" is a benefit to society. The difference is that since evil is the absence of good and not a thing in itself nobody explicitly does evil for the sake of doing evil. They are just not doing good, so it ends up being evil. While doing good is done for subconsciously selfish reasons, it is still their explicit goal.
>>93429005>Invading countries to fulfill your dream of a 1000 year Reich is evil.Depends, doesn't it?A human kingdom subduing Orc and Goblin, barbarian tribes living east of your realm, to secure the borders from the frequent raids can be seen as good, if you are a human in that scenario. >Killing or deporting undesirables because they don’t fit into your vision of the future is evil.Ofc Hitler did evil things, but in a fantasy world, all those things can be justified easily as good.
>>93431652what are you even trying for
>>93431657>he's just here to talk shitSays the faggot who can't stop bringing up his anal perversions and feminist degeneracy for no reason whatsoever.Don't (you) me, don't look at my butt, and especially don't look at my kids, homo.
>>93431671m
>>93431674>in a fantasy worldIn any world, really. Everyone thinks they're the "good guys". Alexander did. Napoleon did. Hitler did. The jews still do, somehow. Getting lost in arbitrary morality is simply a trick to keep you from doing what is right and virtuous for your family, tribe and nation.
>>93431629That's probably too deep for him, but the truth goes deeper, people have a limited ability to choose their aspirations and to choose how they feel about those asperations. When a person gets a dopamine rush out of doing good it's because they've chosen to be a good person, because they've put in the hard work to nurture the right mindset in themselves. We really are just electro-chemical robots, but we're also self-directed radiant beings who have the potential to do anything, both things are true and neither thing contradicts the other.
>>93431679lolCry harder.
>>93431654>he's like, le ebil because it's in his description. He believes in Evil god and lives in Evil castle and wears blackLiterally story for children
>>93431690Those guys all saw that it was effective to portray themselves as the goodguy. They saw that they could make other people believe that they were the goodguy. That doesn't mean that they believed it themselves. You are fundamentally ignoring the question of evil.
>>93431692>"truth goes deeper than he can understand">literally parrot what he saidCan't wait for summer to end
>>93431671> its conscious desire to feel good so its not good>its subconscious you dont know you arent doing it for an something which im going to abstracttryjust fucking tryto conceptualize this and i will keep it shorthell i wont put you through understanding object permanence, itll all be about youJUST FOR YOUif you take a napit isnt evilit is absent of goodif you dont understand let me know what part confuses you
>>93431690>Everyone thinks they're the "good guys".Exactly. Thats why the concept of a Blackguard is so weird, because they go around, essentially announcing they are evil.Not even the SS did that.
>>93431652Again. You brought up the identity politics.Saying people consume too much plant estrogen and it makes their brains believe is some marvel tier evil vs good nonsense isn't identity politics.Why would anyone know what BG means or identify generic fantasy art?You need to take your meds tourist
>>93431725In what way is being healthy absent of good?
>>93431703why in gods crusty ass hairs are you telling your kids anything you dont think will help them
>>93431751if me being healthy is not absent of good then increasing my own psychological health by a consistent trickle of dopamine only increases the inherent goodness of my kind acts to others
>>93428537In the case of de Sade, he was a big ol' edgy fat pedophile...infact, a lot like most 4channershuh. think he was ahead of his time?
>>93431715>they were just pretendingYou're just pulling that out of your ass. Hitler was a man who loved his nation, his wife and his dog. Both he and Napoleon stabilized their countries in a period of distress and had incredible achievements and left a legacy that will endure for centuries, if not millennia, just like their predecessor Alexander. Men do what they think is right given the context they have and the circumstances that they are in.>You are fundamentally ignoring the question of evil.No, I'm just done watching cartoons and reading pseudo-christian opinions on morality. Not believing in moustache-twirling comic book villains or manichean satan-proxies does not mean I am ignoring it. Read Nietzsche or Machiavelli or the Torah (from the jewish perspective). They all advocate what they perceive to be good for their in-group, and yet they certainly also advocate for acts that would be unfortunate to be on the receiving end of. It's just natural law.
>>93427442>Why would someone devote themself philosophically to evil?Because someone HAS to be evil, so that the good guys can quest against them. The evil empire has to EXIST for you to rebel against it, and it has to last long enough that defeating it actually means something.And that means that, if Im evil, the get to enjoy all the benefits of being so: the money, power, comfort, and so forth. And I get to enjoy the for a long time. I mean sure, the last 5 minutes when the heros burst in and kill me probably suck...but that doesn't outweigh the decades of pleasure I get from being able to do whatever I want which led up to it. All in all, you can't have everything, and so decades of pleasure in exchange for 5 minutes of suck at the end is a pretty reasonable deal.
>>93431756>why are you telling your kids simple fairy talesThere are a myriad of reasons, paramountly of which they wouldn't understand complex motivations. You just tell them one guy is good and one is bad so they'll mimic the good guy. In reality they would need real motivations to be evocative characters.That is why DnD makes shit stories, because it is a system for children and midwits
>>93431733Exactly. Nor does chabad lubavitch, the US govt or the tick that drinks your blood. Healthy creatures and organisms (and organisations) just do what they perceive to be necessary for their survival and benefit.
>>93431717He didn't really address the subject of choosing a good mindset or of nurturing good habits over time, he just identified the "mechanist fallacy" as separate from moral reasoning and asked anon to pick one or the other. Which is fair, as a start, but really they're both true at all times and neither one contradicts the other. Perhaps he's trying to say more than I gave him credit for and if so then I apologize. But not for >>93430718, >>93430718 really is as childish as I accused him of being.This is why I love alignments, because they trick people into talking about morality. So many people start out with that same attitude of "this fantasy premise is childish and beneath me" but then in their attempts to dismiss the premise they expose their own immaturity and trick themselves into discussing morality. I feel bad for the guys who have this play out unexpectedly in their livingrooms, that's definitely a downside of playing with D&D alignments and I don't blame people for refusing to use them in play, but as an internet discussion-starter alignments are awesome and have done nothing but improve the human condition.
>>93430034>they just exist in a moral area where evil is ok as long as they're the ones dishing it out to other people.We aren't dealing it to people though. Just Ukrainians, not people.
>>93431770more ass shots good ser
>>93431766>dopamine increases psychological healthWhen's the last time you saw a mental stable addict?
>>93431790Shalom, yithzak.
>>93431786sounds like you only read and repeatcant fashion anything new from it.learn to write and you will understand
>>93431768>No one is really evil>Everyone believes what they claim to believe, especially warlords, warlords definitely believe in all the things that they claim to believe in>"It's just natural law."O.k Satan.
>>93431789Alignment does the exact opposite of making people talk about morality. It is a shortcut to that discussion. It takes "we need to stop him because he's killing innocent people" and makes it "we need to stop him because he's evil and we're good". It completely sidesteps all nuance or detail in morality in favor of a meaningless label to stick on a stat block.
>>93431795I think it's more evil if I've tempted you, and then willfully chosen to deny you for no other reason than because it inconveniences you
>>93431811>Everyone believes what they claim to believeThat's not what I said at all. I said that they don't believe themselves to be evil, or at worst, they believe that they are doing a necessary evil for a greater good.
>>93431735>>93431735>eating beef>eating chicken>drinking milk>blaming your bitchtits on phytoestrogenslol"Everyone who disagrees with me (about elfgames) is on estrogen" is an idpol freakout. Most idpol freakouts are blatant projection, as is the case here, you are clearly upset about your milk-induced bitchtits and you are clearly projecting those concerns. >Why would anyone know what BG means or identify generic fantasy art?>You need to take your meds tourist>tourist>tourist>tourist
>>93431801neverwaste cheap rhetoric on someone who wont call you on itits irrelevantyou know its irrelevant lack of self control is what makes and addictyou asked ones own health isnt goodif you believe that it is good then your earlier point doesnt stand because a healthy mind would only make a good act more good for the self care that it entailsseems like you are wasting everyones time nowif you dont think that is the caseyou have been wasting it even longer
>>93431827monster
>>93431835Another mental breakdown.Sad to see.I'm sure your therapist will get you through it
>>93431824That's what tricks people into talking about it, they feel secure talking about it because they think it's simple and they think they can posture by dunking on it, and so they trick themselves into having their first-ever open discussions about morality.
>>93431836>"dopamine is inherently good">no it's not>"well it's good when you make it good, it's only not good when it's bad"Absolutely circular argument.
>>93431874boooringtry harder
>>93431849Nobody has ever had meaningful discussions talking about DnD morality
>>93431884People have meaningful discussion about D&D morality every day on 4chan /tg/ (and elsewhere).
>>93431894No. They don't.
>>93431906I just did. What now?
>>93430875The domination of the innocent to fulfill one’s own selfish desires.
>>93431874nta, but I believe this goes back to the question of a righteous life vs an evil life. A righteous person trains themselves to feel gratified by the good that they do (a big part of this is empathy-maxxing and putting yourself in others' shoes but it's a little more complicated than that, it's also about delaying gratification and allowing your superego to take charge). Evil people train themselves to maximize gratification, usually in the short-term, but even when they commit to a long-term plan it's always a selfish one where the payoff is for them alone (this was more complicated in the past, these days evil people usually turn to addiction and an addict is the simplest version of a "person").You can point to a good person who feels great joy at saving a bunch of orphans, and directly compare them to an evil person who feels great joy at getting away with a fuckload of money, and in that moment the chemical rush that they both experience is quite similar, but you're ignoring the lifestyle choices (CHOICES) which lead them to those respective points.
>>93431914This was exactly the type of discussion I would classify as meaningless. Nothing insightful was said by one person and listened to by another.
>>93431914>>93431914Now Mr Phytoestrogen is going to pretend like he hasn't learned anything about D&D, or about 4chan /tg/, or about morality. He will maintain this pretense for as long as he continues to participate in this thread, the wheels won't really start turning until after he moves on to something else.
>>93431980>>93431959>let me tell you* what you believe>*or whoever I mistook you forOkay faggots. Great talk.
>>93431956clever lad
>>93431959>Nothing insightful was said by one person and listened to by another.Ah, I see, you think that someone has to say "Ahah, I was wrong, thank you for teaching me!" otherwise the discussing isn't meaningful.lol yea, that doesn't happen on 4chan, for any conversation, moral-or-otherwise. But that doesn't mean that no one is learning anything. People come here to espouse views that they wouldn't dare to talk about in other media (ex "talking about platonic evil is pointless and anyone who says otherwise is on estrogen"), which means that they learn more from 4chan than they would learn from other media, not less. Even in other contexts, people rarely come out and admit that they were wrong or that they have learned something, but if you pay attention you can see how the conversation advances over time and you can clearly see that people are learning. It's especially evident when some stagnant corner of the internet rediscovers an old subject and the conversation follows the same basic path as the conversations of the past.
>>93431956I said health is good.He said dopamine was healthy, so it is good.I pointed out dopamine isn't healthy in itself.You're saying the same thing I said here>>93431556I'm not ignoring choices, though they weren't really choices since you are taught them.Both are done because of subconscious desire for gratification. One is good because it helps society, the other is evil because it helps only the person or harms society. Though that comes down to your own definition of good and evil.The real good is in training people to be gratified by things that don't only serve themselves, so that in attempting to serve themselves they end up serving others.
>>93432020oOoOif i remove all context the thing that can be bad in a different context doesnt sound so goodtry not to get any of the shit coming out of your mouth in the keyboard
>>93427442Everyone is a hero of their own story, so none of the villains think they're evil. They always have some excuse as to why they should have the right to torture someone to death to fil their own sadistic desires.
>POWER!
>>93432094
>>93432051>you're not allowed to use context to disprove my asinine assertions and circular reasoninglol
>>93432092I don't think they all consider themselves the hero, but they do all have motivations beyond wanting to be evil.
>>93427442For that matter, why would someone devote themselves to good? You see being "good" as desirable because of values instilled into you by your culture. It's not hard to imagine a fictional culture where self-reliance and domination are virtues, and charity, compassion, self-sacrifice and defending the weak are seen as character flaws.
>>93432106man i already told youi know you arent that dumblet me put it like thisthis is an opportunity to TRY with your rhetoric expand on it, practice your skills.otherwise you are only wasting your timeand it makes me sad to think that your time is so completely worthless that its value can be calculated in its ability to waste my time.so ill ASSUME the hurr durr crap as a givennow you dont have to waste time typing it.now. hit me with your best shot.
>>93432018I've literally said the same things irl that I have here. It's not scandalous because they are self-evident truths. Objective morality is only the purview of God. For humans it will always be relative. The thread isn't even about morality. It's about a nonsensical question of why someone would choose to be evil, which makes no sense because people don't choose to be evil. Then the reasoning was given that it's DnD, so it doesn't have to make sense, which means the question was moot to begin with by asking for a logical reasoning to an explicitly illogical situation.
>>93432210>Objective morality is only the purview of God. For humans it will always be relative.O.k., this explains why you're so offended by the idea of moral thought experiments, you should have just said that at the beginning.
>>93432200There is very little I could do here to expand on my rhetoric. That would require some form of challenge. A tiger doesn't become a better hunter by playing with mice. This was all for entertainment. A bit of dopamine.
>>93432225hey whats that fromi like me some puppet shows
>>93432233oh im sorry to hear you dont have anything bettermost people on here have something youy can work with if they really put their minds too itwellnobody will think less of you for toddling off and eating some candynot sure how many people could think less of you but it is what it is :c
>>93432233dude a tiger doesnt wander into a chat and shit its pants
>>93432244I'm afraid that I actually don't know, I found it as a reaction image on /tg/, if someone else has the source then I'd be grateful because I'd love to see the full skit (though desu I have a feeling that it's an edgy Henson-spoof and that it won't be as funny as an actual muppet skit would be).
>>93427442Because fuck you.
>>93432225I'm offended by banal questions like "why would someone choose to devote themselves to evil" because it's imbecilic and insists upon itself, just like alignment in general.I openly welcome actual discussions of morality. I have a minor in philosophy. Since it is inherently relative on this plane, you must first define what is good and evil. By defining it you can infer what motivations might lead to a life of either pole.
>>93432260fuck ah wellyou got some good taste
>>93432258I guess you're not a tiger then since you soiled yourself
>>93432252Why would I care if anyone thought less of me?
>>93432301no nosee your supposed to turn what i say back on meusing your own comments just seems desperatefor examplebecause you clearly analogized yourself as a tiger and me as a mouse i could say "the only tigers art youv mastered is shitting down your own leg"but since you brought up tigers and mice it jsut makes you come across as a redditor you should look for something self congratulatory and conceded in my comments
>>93432316ok betterbetternow i say something likei wouldnt expect you too given your view of society is based on "individual strength"which suggests complete lack of conceptualization of social powerand ignorance of the history of our species now put some aggression in it
>>93427442This >>93427560I also like those who strive for a greater good by any means necessary.
>>93432288>I openly welcome actual discussions of morality. I have a minor in philosophy.Holy shit I'm dying
>>93432344holy FUCK i missed that partkill me now
>>93432319I'm not supposed to do anything.I don't need a concession. It is already in your mind.I used the analogy to drive home the point that this isn't an exhibition match. It's just trivial play.You used my analogy in a oafish manner, which merely accentuates my point. "lol, poo" is all you could manifest from your vacuous cranium. I don't need to turn about with clever wordplay to parry such a clumsy strike.I'm enjoying the show. Quite funny
>>93432331Except you clearly don't understand my view of society. So you completely missed the mark again
>>93432344You're dying because someone is willing to discuss morality? Isn't that what you desired? You seem incredibly disengenuous
D&D is cornydoesnt make it wrong
>>93427560>>93432337Not bad, but points 1 and 3 sounds like a formerly-good person trying to rationalize their new evil outlook, while points 2 and 4 sound like a person who would never describe themselves as evil because there is no benefit in describing yourself as evil. The classic blackguard "CHAMPION OF EVIL" image only makes sense in the context of a good person who turns himself inside-out and becomes evil.
>>93432366mmmmentioning that you arent trying and are too good to make a point is one thing. its cringy sure but it fits the drama/tone.twice though and it gets sad rather than funnya joke played out too long
>>93432384i didnt miss anythingit was just retarded
you still here puppet anon?
>>93432446No. It still had the desired effect.>>93432454You absolutely did. You tried to feign saying something you thought I would disagree with, which shows you're completely lost
>>93432393>You're dying because someone is willing to discuss morality?He isn't though, he's just a flimflam-guy trying to frame himself as morally enlightened while evading any discussion of morality. There are other, better posters in this thread trying to discuss morality and I've already responded to most of them, let me know if there's anything I can clear up for you. I might be wrong about who I was replying to, my dying-of-laughter post was based on the idea that the "D&D morality is banal only God is objectively moral" guy was the same as the "Discussing D&D morality is childish and anyone who says otherwise is a subhuman on estrogen" guy, and then he had a minor in philosophy and that he welcomed moral discussion and that was what put me into rofl mode.
>>93432473if you only want replies then iv got two mutually exclusive bits of advice the desire for communication of any kind without any other goal speaks of a loneliness in you that could be mitigated if you went out and talked to some people. youll be surprised how fulfilling and constructive to relationships a couple good deeds can beif the reply is all you need then find a chat botyou can tell it to argue with you and it will no matter how boring you get anyway i think puppet anon left and it just wont be the same without him so ima get stuff done.later my weirdo
>>93432210I've been thinking about this, and I think that I can express some of your concerns for you, which is a courtesy because you have failed utterly to express your own concerns (other than your fear of phytoestrogens lmao)."Larger", "smaller", "faster", "slower", "more dense", "less dense", these are objective judgements. Such statements are simply true or false, regardless of any relevant human opinions, and will remain true or false long after we're all dead. "Better", "worse", "good", "bad", "righteous", "selfish", these judgments are all subjective and have no meaning outside the realm of human values and human desires."Objective good" is a contradiction in terms. "Objective evil" is also a contradiction in terms. Good and evil are inherently subjective and cannot be objective, at least not in the real world. The real world is a place where value judgments are inherently separate from objective judgments.But D&D doesn't take place in the real world. D&D takes place in a fictional fantasy cosmology, and one of the core conceits of that cosmology is that "good" and "evil" are objective measurable forces, as surely as magnetic-North and magnetic-South are objective measurable forces to us. All the human examples of good and evil that you may see, all the things that you might normally attribute to subjective ideological opinions and emergent political facts, all of those things are just physical manifestations of objective-good and objective-evil (and maybe law and chaos) in the world of D&D.I can respect an nihilist's objections to this paradigm. After all, "good" and "evil" are inherently subjective terms, they have no objective meaning in the real world, they can have objective meaning only within the context of the fantasy paradigm.But then, your problem isn't that you think such fantasy paradigms are necessarily wrong, your problem is that you think that your retarded jew-god should have an absolute monopoly over any such fantasy paradigm.
Why not?
>>93427442ask the republican party
>>93431651>EuropeansRussians are the Golden Horde, there is nothing European. They have an European MASK, but that's only outward.They are asiatic people in mentality, and asiatic in their hatred for the West.
>>93427442try not to think of it in terms of good or evil; think of it as life or death.
>>93433357I appreciate your point, but the Republican zeitgeist is more about devoting yourself to irresponsibility, "THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM SO LET ME GO TO THE BOOTH-OF-SELF-GOVERNANCE AND VOTE TO SAY THAT IT ISN'T MY PROBLEM", they're definitely to blame for most modern problems but they're more neutral than evil. Most people are self-interested, but not entirely evil, this is just what happens when you ask real-world people to govern themselves.
>>93433385Asia and Europe are one continent. The whole idea of 2 separate continents comes from Northern Europeans being retarded racists and trying to other their brethren. Your post takes that mentality to a hilarious extreme because the people that you're talking about are undeniably western, in their culture as well as their religion as well as their genetic background, they're al Europeans and there's no getting around it. You insist otherwise because you think that TRVE EUROPEANS are something more specific, more central-western and central-northern, it's the same endless purity spiral that plagues Christianity. European culture is ill.
>>93433494What many don't get is that Russians stirred shit since forever.They used Pan-Slavism in the Balkans (and ruined the Serbs forever, which weren't great to begin with, admittedly), used as a tool orthodox Christianity to break the ottoman empire (result: Turk-Greek-Armenian shitshow) when they were the Russian Empire.Then the empire fell, Bolsheviks come, and they start to spread this shit poison Communism, subversion, infiltration, something so vile had to be fought with fire (juntas, islamists) again creating problems to this day. The brain-rot of communism keeps enslaved to them nostalgic left parties.THEN communism fell but instead of improving and going in the direction Poland went, Russia infiltrated politics in the west and rewarded any trust and trade with lies, infiltration, and subversion. Now affecting the other side of the political spectrum to be subverted and enslaved creating division, stress, tensions and a 5th column.Also overall in their history Russians also ethnically cleansed through deportation and starving Ukrainians, Swedes from Scania, Finns, Crimean Tatars, Circassians, greeks from the Caucasus while posing as anti-colonialists or defenders of Christianity or whatever lie and useful idiots suited them.Retarded vatniks think this is a new fashion while the deep hatred for Russia is well-rooted. They never self-reflected or went through the processes say, Germany because of nazism or post-colonial states like France or the UK went through. Is always everyone else's fault. They will never change or improve because their victim mentality never leaves space for that.It's never their fault for being literally the Mongol Golden Horde wearing the skin of Novgorod.You are reverse King Midas that transforms to shit everything you touch. You are not a people, you are a disease.
>>93433494Invasion of GeorgiaDoping all Russian athletes for every Olympic game and IcarusKilling 300 passengers of MH17 and GRU spies covering it upAnnexation of Crimea against Budapest Memorandum of 1994Invasion of UkraineAssassination of Litvinenko and othersAttacks on U.S. elections and source 2 and source 3 and Muller reportPropaganda tubes Sputnik, RT or troll factories and VideoRussia using illegal weapons in Syria and committing warcrimes against civilians and bombing hospitals, proof. Russians torturing prisoners NSFWRussia planting illegally a flag on the arctic floor against UNCLOS (as if it was 15 century)Killing journalists left and right and wiki and another listRussia is friend with North Korea source 2. Russia helping NK Nuclear programShady Bombing of 1999 that launched Putin’s career possibly planned by himselfRussia attempt to assassinate Montenegro PM in 2016, Poisoning of YushchenkoPutin’s Panama papersRussia attacking US in SyriaRussia violating airspace and source 2 and overAlaskaNerve agent attack in UKPutin's personal army2007 cyberattack on EstoniaPenetration of U.S. nuclear plant commandRussian war crimes against Chechens, LGBTRussia had a stake in Scottish referendum 2014Russia has interfered in 19 countries’ elections, Source 2Vote fraud and ballot box stuffing 2018 and VideoFacebook and RussiaRussia and italy 3.3M bribeDanske Bank laundering Putin's 230B USDCambridge Analytica, Russia money, US presidential electionRussia helped with Brexit and source 2Russia and Marie Le PenRussia backed Ukrainian new comedian-presidentRussia helping antivaxRussia funding neonazisRussia helping the BLM movementRussia funding Austrian far-right partiesRussia torturing prisonersAssassinating a Georgian in Berlin
>>93433494Poles and Eastonians are europeans too, Ivan.It's you that you are a mongol butcher dressed up as an eurpean.
>>93433494>trying to other their brethren.Instead of conquering and slaughtering them like you are trying to do RIGHT NOW in your 3-days special military operation, piece of shit?
>>93433566>Eastern europe used as extraction-economy with no hope of ever industrializing/advancing under capitalism>Invent communism and industrialize anyway>"this shit poison Communism, subversion, infiltration" "lies" etcO.k. fag.Christianity was always a shit religion but capitalism is even shittier.
>>93433569lolI respect your enthusiasm, but Putin is just one supervillain (in a geographically-big-but-demographically-small pond), whereas the Pentagon is an unprecedented league of supervillains and Putin will always be jealous of them. And, either way, Putin is still a quintessentially European leader. Perhaps you should frame your objections in terms of western liberal ideals rather than in terms of make-believe racial boundaries.
>>93427442Literally just trolling. People do this stuff in real life all the time, they get a rush from hurting people and transgressing norms. Exerting power. Its why cops find excuses to shoot dogs even though reasonably it should give them no satisfaction - evil is real. The fact that it has no justification makes it better to them when they do it nonetheless.
>>93433597>>93433659Massive chip on your shoulder, thirdie.
>>93433739>butwhataboutevery fucking time
>>93433739>The fact that it has no justification makes it better to them when they do it nonetheless.You're totally right, but to be fair, I can't think of a fantasy/TTRPG setting which reproduces this kind of small-dick-power-fantasy culture with any fidelity. It seems to be no more than a quirk of modern Call of Duty culture with no real mirror in fantasy. And that's a shame.
>>93433743I've spent most of my life in Maine and have never been outside the US.>>93433759Incoherent post.
What a spooky thread.
>>93427512Cold is not an essential part of hot. It's just the absence of heat. Cold is effortless: it's the inevitable outcome because it's the laziest.
>>93427442They wouldn't, because that's stupid. They'd devote themselves philosophical to amoral or immoral ideals or ideas or philosophies that just happen to be considered Evil.>>93427791Retard.>>93427794>DnDHave you tried not to?
>>93427560There are a few you left off.5. "Evil" is just what feeble minds fail to understand. Perhaps because they are a form of life fundamentally incompatible with understanding. Ants no doubt resent the plow and call the farmer evil.6. ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn7. And of course, devotion because of either enslavement or to repay some debt of honor (which is also enslavement, but fools who believe in such things as "honor" are only proving the weakness of their faith which makes this form of slavery even more poignant). When your evil daddy says go burn that village, you're still evil even if you only did it because you didn't want him to beat you again.
>>93431157>listening to retarded cavemen from before the modern age
>>93433809>Cold is not an essential part of hot.Debatable. It's an essential part of heat, at least, to analyze heat is to analyze coldness.But Evil is definitely an essential part of life. Comparing this to cold/hot is entirely retarded, evil/life is not like cold/hot, life is driven by forces that we consider evil and has been for millions of years and there's no getting around it. Life isn't fair. Human life has the potential to be fair, but pre-human life has ABSOLUTELY NO potential to be fair, and most life is pre-human. Dumbass.>>93433786We've had it before and we'll have it again.
>>93433772Not incoherent, is tankie/butthurt thirdie 101.If you are a tankie instead of a second gen that hates the west, my suggestion is the same - leave.
>>93433873No, to analyze cold is to analyze heat. In other words, cold doesn't exist at all. It's a concept humans invented because of their limited perspective. In fact, it isn't even possible to get to absolute zero, let alone negative heat - in a deep, deep profound way, the opposite of heat is literally not only impossible it's meaningless.Cold is only relative, and that apposition is subjective because it's an arbitrary construct of human design.
>>93433809Cold is not an essential part of hot, but no-one said that Evil is an essential part of Good.Cold is however essential to Warmth, for without the former, the latter would have no relevance, and vice-versa. So, too, Good without Evil cannot exist.
>>93433809>Cold is not an essential part of hot.and yet you would not know what heat is if you did not know cold, nor would you know that you need heat if you were not cold.You couldn't miss the cold if you weren't hot and you couldn't miss the heat if you weren't cold.
>>93433873uffff you're gonna have a rude awakening if you make it out of high school, little boy.
>>93433834We've all tried it, and most of us didn't like it, which is why we came back to D&D-likes and/or D&D.Most HYTNPD&D posts come from people who haven't really tried playing D&D. D&D is fun. It's not the only fun TTRPG but most people have a lot of fun with it and that's why you can't cope. Seriously, though, is it so hard for you to picture a world free from evil? This goes far beyond D&D and has relatively-little to do with D&D, it's a matter of your own imagination and moral-reasoning skills. What would the forces of Good do if they didn't have to worry about evil? Would they just POOF out of existence, or would they spend all day making beautiful things?
>>93433923That you admit the subjectivity of human perspective only proves my point. There is no good or evil - if there were, humans wouldn't constantly disagree about what's what.
>>93433934>is it so hard for you to picture a world free from evil?Complete non-sequitur in regards to my post. But yes, of course I can imagine it, but cool it with the antisemitism.
>>93433915>>93433915>to analyze cold is to analyze heat.That too.Thermal analysis is an analysis of cold and heat. High-temperature is no more or less essential than low-temperature, it's all a question of temperature, your central point is very silly. >>93433925lol
>>93433923>and yet you would not know what heat is if you did not know coldyou would thoughfrostbite is not a prerequisite for burns
>>93433915If cold does not exist, how did we invent liquid nitrogen?
>>93431157https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absence_of_goodno he just listens to western philosophers.
>>93433971You don't need bites or burns, just as you do not need to know rape to know Evil, you fucking pseud. Relative states are real, and necessary in order to form meaning. It doesn't matter what degrees we're talking about.
>>93433971To know frostbite is to know heat through it's absence. Dur. Good and evil is a bit different, the things that we describe as evil are entirely normal in the natural world, while the things that we know as good as mostly just recent social technologies invented by recent humans.
>>93433971>frostbite is not a prerequisite for burnsbut the cold can also cause burns.
>>93433996>>93434002>>93434003evil is evil and everybody knows what it is, and also it's not necessarysorry you wasted so much time on philosophy
>>93433944In what way is it subjective to know when you are cold and when you are hot?
>>93434023>and also it's not necessaryIf it exists, it is necessary.
>>93434048maybe on planet retard
>>93433966No, my central point is precisely that temperature is only a positive scale. You got the idea after I forced into your mouth and stood over you instructing you how to chew and swallow in painstaking detail.And now that you've got it in you, you think it was your idea all along.But it's ok, parents are doomed to teach thankless children - the satisfaction of knowing I successfully taught you something is the only benefit I can expect from the effort.
>>93433984Liquid nitrogen wasn't invented, just for starters. It's just a state matter can be in when there is very little heat available... let me know if you're still struggling after you give that a minute to sink in.
>>93434065Well, I guess you don't need to breathe oxygen.
>>93434023>evil is evilDur.>and everybody knows what it isThey don't though, things keep changing so that every new generation needs it explained to them even in the best of cases, and in some cases the previous generations were lied to and so the last 2 or 3 generations need it explained to them (see: U.S. crusader-fantasies and the zionist military-industrial complex. Post-WWII culture is shit.)>and also it's not necessaryUnnecessary things can take a lot of effort to get rid of. See: lice, ticks, crabs, herpes, alcohol, Christianity, Pfizer, etc.
>>93434036Who's doing the knowing? According to whom is it hot or cold?But in a more serious and rigorous sense, temperature is defined on an objective scale which is only positive. Because negative heat is impossible and meaningless. Therefore, cold is a subjective concept which is only meaningful relative to the perspective of the person who is experiencing it. Five degrees Kelvin is not "cold", it's just describing a small amount of energy in a thing. You're the one who thinks it's "cold". And even the amount of energy, when I described it as a small amount, that's relative, too. It's a lot of total energy if it's describing a large collection of particles, but it's not much if it's only describing a small collection of particles.But there is no negative energy. It's not a meaningful concept and it's impossible in reality.There is no anti-good. There is no evil. There is only a relative absence of good. Evil is just a word we invented to describe that absence, even though it doesn't reference anything real.
>>93427442Organized crime exists to control criminals and do not get out of control, the law has no choice but to allow it.
>>93434068>No, my central point is precisely that temperature is only a positive scale.Not really, no, high temperature is no more essential than low temperature. Strut harder you twit.
>>93430875Baby, don't hurt meDon't hurt meNo more
>>93434161>They don't thoughyeah they doexcept for a few contrarians that pretend not to because pedantry amuses them
>>93434167>Therefore, cold is a subjective conceptNo, that's not what subjective means, dumbass. Subjective concepts exist only relative to human values, like good or bad, holy or unholy, desirable or undesirable. Hot and cold are objective values. Cold is an objective measurement just like hot. Evil is a subjective value just like good.
>>93434206I pity you. Our collective concept of goodness is based on shared values which transcend ideology and culture, but you will never be smart enough to see that, you think that everyone secretly agrees with you and that anyone who says otherwise is just being difficult.
>>93434193Based.
>>93434167>Because negative heat is impossible and meaningless.exists, we call it: degrees below zero.
>>93434297Sure, but that's based on an arbitrary zero, all heat measurements (regardless of scale) are based on molecular agitation vs its absence. You can't actually go below absolute zero, there's no such thing as negative-molecular-agitation.The counterpoint is that all temperature scales (even one that starts at absolute zero like the kelvin scale) are equally objective, starting at a different point and describing low temperatures as negative numbers doesn't make the scale any less objective, an objective measurement of a high temperature and an objective measurement of a low temperature are both equally objective.
>>93434227No. It is what subjective means. "Cold" is a human judgement, relative only to human values. It is a concept that we invented to describe our experiences of temperatures, just like we invented good and bad to describe our experiences.
>>93434342or these guys (yes, there are people who love chaos)
>>93434191oooooooo You mad. Spit my jizz out yo' mouth, then, if you don't like it.
>>93434297That's not how temperature works, idiot.
>>93434362>"Cold" is a human judgment, relative only to human valueslolDumbass. Fuck public education.
>>93434361>You can't actually go below absolute zeroAbsolute Zero is defined as the lowest possible temperature, that is, it is the temperature at which a subatomic particle lacks the energy to produce heat. This temperature is -273.15°C.
>>93427442The unironic belief that evil is more “correct” and noble than good. Superior on an ethical level.Not a moral high ground, the exact opposite. A race to the bottom.A heroic paladin can keep taking vows, praying every morning, training with his weapon, etc, in order to become the perfect paragon of his ideals.A blackguard might see the pinnacle of evil as harder to attain, and thus a more worthy endeavor.Think of a fanatic, devoted to the concept of evil rather than to a religious deity.
>>93434381Yes, in fact that's how it works, your parents wasted their money on your education.
>>93434373Chaos is great, but too many really shitty settings like to restrict it to mindless destruction.
>>93434421>but too many really shitty settings like to restrict it to mindless destruction.It wouldn't be chaos if it had order and meaning.
>>93434381>>93434421Negative heat is meaningful relative to any given level of heat, but any description of heat/cold describes relative levels of molecular energy and the molecular energy can't be negative, it's just a question of what scale you're using and where you put "0". "Relative" doesn't mean "subjective" heat is an objective factor, it has nothing to do with value judgments.
>>93427442Watch that movie Nefarious. The demon in it explains the mindset very well from a theistic perspective. If on the other hand you are convinced there is no God, no higher power to punish you eternally, then the concepts of Good and Morality are nothing but the social constructs of the weak to try to protect themselves from the strong. In that case, there is no reason to not be the most conniving, brutal, self serving bastard you can be, no reason to not put your own pleasure and gain second to anyone or anything.
>>93434504>If on the other hand you are convinced there is no God, no higher power to punish you eternally, then the concepts of Good and Morality are nothing but the social constructs of the weak to try to protect themselves from the strong.No, retard, those social constructs make everyone stronger in the long run, and they did so thousands of years before your stupid jew-god was ever invented. Your stupid jew-god is evil, and one of the things that evil predictably does is to take credit for the work of good people.
For shits and giggles.
>>93434448This is what I'm talking about: you're seeing chaos only as a loss. Order and meaning in chaos are found in an opportunity for a different order benefitting the ambitious and fortunate.
>>93434539>t. weakling with no will to powerThank you for proving my point.
>>93434704As I said, it is normal for the amoral to stand on the shoulders of altruists and take credit for all the benefits of altruism, YHVH didn't invent this take.
>>93432294Aw man I love me some evil smuppets.And I found the reaper gif origin:"MR. MEATY GRIM REAPER SCENE!"from the show "mr. meaty"?
>>93434411Apparently you live in one of those shitholes where citizens have to pay for their own education. And you have the temerity to believe you can contribute to a conversation about science - let alone with that tone. It's not surprising. It's just that here you're allowed.Temerity means audacity.
>>93434902>And I found the reaper gif origin:Thank you sir, I can't look at it right now but I will later and really do appreciate it.
>>93428159Lawful is not the same thing as good.
>>93435245>>93428159>If you do everything right people don't know you did anything at all.This isn't true for law OR good, ffs, you get more attention by playing naughty but people still see you when you play nice. They'd still see you even if everyone everywhere always played nice. Hostile interaction isn't the only kind of interaction.
>>93432518You're conflating disparate concepts.Discussing DnD morality is not equivalent to discussing morality at large.Recognizing that only a metaphysical force could arbitrate a metaphysical truth is not the same as saying it shouldn't be discussed.DnD morality isn't worth discussing because it is meaningless. It's just a 3x3 matrix of trite garbage that causes bad roleplay. Anyone who uses it is actively hindering their game.
>>93433258>But then, your problem isn't that you think such fantasy paradigms are necessarily wrong, your problem is that you think that your retarded jew-god should have an absolute monopoly over any such fantasy paradigm.I do think fantasy paradigms are ridiculous. Codifying morality in a fantasy game is laughable and childish.I've said nothing about a jew-god
>>93428524You sound like your only regret in life might be acquiring boneitis.
>>93433765Do you need a system to reproduce it? Players usually nail the "petty evil" thing very well even when it's explicitly a bad idea to act like that
>>93433915Actually, while we can't get to absolute zero, we can get below it: Search negative thermodynamic temperature. It's just something I find interesting.
>>93434398See this: >>93436235
>>93427442Ever wake up just tired of it? The world ain't getting better. It's getting worse. All these stupid, bad people running everything, no one doing something. Why? They're just as bad, that's why. They love the ennui and pity and bitching rather than fixing anything or even attempting to because it's hard. Fuck it. Fuck them. Fuck everything. If this is how life works, why not figure it out, learn to use it to your advantage. No one deserves help anyway, not if they refuse to help themselves. So turn off your feefees. Your sad little emotions got you to this state and now you suffer in it. Weak. You're not going to be pathetic like everyone else. And if you die, at least you died doing more than anyone else. You tried.
>>93427442out of spite
>>93433385The Ukes got Steppeified too.They're both weird mixes.
