What killed Age of Sigmar?
>>93431423Evil, nigh mystical forces.
>>93431423Gay sex.
>>93431423wait are they unironically pulling a Primaris for the Sigmarines?
>>93431423Your epic shitposts.
>>93431470Yes and they aren't even half as popular as Marines.
>>93431470Yes. 8 years after Sigmarines were introduced. They also squatted like 1/3rd of the range becasue it was ridiculously bloated, some of which came out within the last 3 years.Sigmarines are a hillarious disaster.
>>93431470This is the third attempt, they squatted the whole 2nd attempt who actually looked okay tooOG Fatcast 1stSacrosanct Chamber with Robes was 2ndRuination Chamber now
>>93431423Why are people obsessed with saying AoS is dead? People have been saying its dying for years, but if it was dead they wouldn't literally have just released a new edition for it.You don't like it? Cool, don't play it, play the last edition of WHFB or The Old World instead. Obviously some people are out there enjoying it and buying models for it or they wouldn't keep making new releases for it.
>>93431423The Hand of God. Repent, sinners!
>>93431470Yes and no. A lot of "old" models are going. Most are being replaced with resculpts or close equivalents. Naturally the newer models have finer details and fewer options. So it works a lot like the rollout of Primaris because it incentivizes people to more or less rebuy a full army. I'm honestly a little worried that this will become more common going forward.On the fluff side of things there's nowhere near as much of a shakeup for people to get mad at. The fluff just says everyone got some new armor to wear. So the contentious stuff involving Cawl and Guilliman and "space marines, but better" and so on doesn't quite translate to this situation.
>>93431524>On the fluff side of things there's nowhere near as much of a shakeup for people to get mad at. The fluff just says everyone got some new armor to wear. So the contentious stuff involving Cawl and Guilliman and "space marines, but better" and so on doesn't quite translate to this situation.even if that wasn't the case, nobody is attached enough to anything stormcast to care. no great stormcast character people love, no great stormhost people are attached to
>>93431537ok
>>93431537What would a great stormcast character even look like? They all seem to have the same "I was a badass hero in mortal realms, but then died and was rescued by Sigmar. I'm slowly losing myself due to repeated reforging eating away my essence. Woe is me, at least I go down swinging" -backstory. Space Marines aren't deep, but at least there is some variation.
>>93431423Sigmar was never alive in any true sense. It was always a corporate product for paypigs. Not a single instance of creative passion occured at any point of its life span with the sole exception of some specific models, none of which are Sigmarines
>>93431488those look so awful it's genuinely shocking
>>93431561> They all seem to have the same "I was a badass hero in mortal realms,So, more or less every time GW writes a named character
>>93431582Well, there's quite a few instances of some weakling ending up making a pact with chaos and given awesome powers as a reward with some equally great and ironic curse or sacrifice.
>>93431561>Special Snowflake Sigmarine>reforging doesn't make this one lose the memories, nobody knows why>this is a good thing allowing martial prowess sharpened by countless years of experience>this is a bad thing because remembering your every death and every fallen comrade burdens the mind>foreshadowing eventually losing it and becoming Special Snowflake Sigmarine 2.0here, GW, this one's for free
>>93431488The new ones still look different from the Dominion ones, which were already an upgrade to the sacrosanct guys.I think, if they would abandon the stupid "golden warrior" meme for them, and went for other colors for the armor, it would help them the most.
>>93431618Amazing, given only the parts used to make a wheel you have successfully reinvented the wheel.
>>93431423Still going pretty strong, as far as I can tell. It would probably help them to stop squatting ranges and tone it down on Stormcast a bit.
>>93431423It was a simple game aimed at kiddies. (most) Kiddies grew up and moved on to less childish things.
>>93431646Should fit right in then
>>93431524>a little worried that this will become more common.It won't become, it is. The number of eitions of WHFB and WH40k should be a clue for you on GW practices. They only support a line long enough for people to buy it, then they drop/squat it and replace it with a slightly different version, again and again.
>>93431572kek, I thought you were getting into metaphysical lore with the first sentence. Fast whiplash there. AoS isn't my favorite either, but it's disingenuous to say that it was solely a paypig game. I always see at least a game or two at my LGS being played, and the models seem to sell well outside of starter boxes with Stormcast.
>>93431683I imagine most toy games are aimed at children.
>>93431470Sort of. But not really.
>>93431712Most, but not all of them. Just because AoS and 40k are aimed at children 3yo and up due to choking hazard doesn't mean that's where most wargames aim at.
>>93431775Uh huh sure...
>>93431796GW>12+. WARNING. Not suitable for children under 36 months.Meanwhile the first blister for another wargame that happened to lay on my table (dropfleet commander)>Recommended for people older than 14 years oldSo GW is more after the preteen market. Catch them young, as they say.
>>93431423Releasing Age of Sigmar in the first place killed it.
>>93431821>Catch them young, as they say.Exactly. Catch them young.
>>93431524It's about maintaining a constant release schedule. Like a gacha, there is most likely a smaller percentage of GW collectors who drive the majority of purchases, so I suspect the stock rotation is there to keep them buying.
>>93431470They are updating the proportions but they aren't turning it into an event or canon thing like they did with spahs mahreems.
>>93431423I really wonder what's wrong with your brain that forces you to spam the board constantly with these shit threads
>>93431960Ah, yes, the gacha-like mechanic of replacing models every nine years.
>>93432058>9 years>game has been around for 9 years and primaris have already received 2 refreshesI suppose it doesn't count somehow because they're fluffed as different chapters sorry chambers
>>93432096I don't know anything about Primaris. All I know is the models OP posted are nine years apart.
>>93431423Age of Shitmar killed Age of Shitmar.
Turns out taking only the unique, copyrightable units in each army and trying to turn them each into armies alone was a really stupid idea. Half the fucking armies still only have like 6 units.
>>93431923That looks god awful. When I was 8 years old, what attracted me to Warhammer was the gritty dark fantasy art style. This would have screamed "LOSER DORK SHIT" had I seen it in the hobbyshops, 20+ years ago.
>>93431634>if they would abandon the stupid "golden warrior" meme for them, and went for other colors for the armorThey did, at least for the starter set of the 4th edition
>>93432177sigmarines meant to write, brain fart, you should have been able to figure that from the context clues though>All I know is the models OP posted are nine years apart.and this is the second refreshread
>>93431634>if they would abandon the stupid "golden warrior" meme for them, and went for other colors for the armorIt's weird how often people in these threads make suggestions for GW to do things that are already being done.
>>93431488There was only one refresh; the Sacrosanct Chamber is just that - a Chamber. The only Primaris'd shit is the slimmer armor they are giving the entire SCE range. I know retards here are only here to seethe, but at least get it right.
>>93432253>printed lava board with flat 2d stone structures>terrain has no base to tie it to the board, is sitting directly on top of lava>model bases have grass tufts on a board that otherwise has no grass anywhere>models are overlapping the 2d stone structure like it wasn't thereat least it's advertising the average AoS game experience but my god
>>93432273It's a starter thing, meant to entrap impressionable youths. But not the prettiest thing. Arguably a lot better than the black hole of games that is TOW, desu.
>>93431423Still coping with the twice-dead TOW huh /v/tard?lmao
>>93432379Sigmar's sales have been lower than TOW's, so I'm not sure what you're trying to cope with here.
>>93432874It's amazing how many GW insiders are constantly shitposting on /tg/. You fucks must work for GW since everyone claims to have detailed knowledge of how well each warhamster kit sells even though the company doesn't publish sales numbers anywhere.
>releases sigmar with EVERY starter set>popularity is about the same with every other faction>NOT even that much easier to build/paint than other factionsI don't understand why they keep shoving sigmar down people's throats. Space Marines each have their own chapter color or unique design models(BT, DA, GK, etc) and everyone seems to have a favorite. But they could have had a starter set that was faction agnostic like WFB used to be. Instead they'll have to deal with sigmar bloat every ten years or so.
>>93432912They want their fantasy-space marines that can be endlessly replicated, retooled and resold. A formula producing endless content.
>>93432908This is our only outlet. They control every other site. SEND HELP
>>93432874tell me, o' wise anon of the games workshopare they going to start making the storm of chaos era chaos warrior sculpts, or the 5th edition 1997 chaos warrior sculpts?because I want both
>>93432908The fact that there's dust sitting on the Sigmar boxes that have been sitting there since last year is a good indicator of them not selling, at two different hobby shops that I frequent.
>>93433028My LGS still stocks Dreadfleet.
>>93433040And we never saw Dreadfleet again.
>>934314231st Turn Charges
>>93433232Why? What's the big deal with them?
>>93433300>charging gives advantages>can do it before other player gets to do anythingIt's a mystery
>>93431524>I'm honestly a little worried that this will become more common going forward.They flat out stated that this will continue to happen
>>93431923No one was buying the 40k versions of these so they stopped at 6 books
>>93431561How is that any different from space marines?>This space marine just doesn't die ever, for some reason
>>93434367I think there are a bit more room for Space Marine chapters to be different, that in itself leads to different marine characters. Is there a single Stormcast chamber that isn't "these stormcast eternals are extra grim, live in this realm and like to fight these foes"?
It was the testing ground for all the new DEI measures. It's such a fucking monkey's paw that now that miniature sculpting has so much technology for great sculpts, yet we are getting ugly ass diversity slop and gender quotas. The new Slaves to Darkness chaos marauders are fucking hideous, Cities of Sigmar is hideous. I've been waiting since AoS launched for new Chorfs in plastic and we are getting them soon, but I fully expect them to be mandated half men half women and diversified bullshit. Its literally become Twitter/Tumblr/Commiefornia the game. It had promise when 2nd edition came out, and since then its been killed by this sickness that has infested most fantasy and tabletop settings.
>>93434857There being millions of Space Marine chapters is why WH40k is effectively dead for anything that isn't Space Marines. AoSfags want to keep that shit away from the SCE, if anything. That being said, plenty of players make their own unique SCE armies. They don't need Primarch daddy issues to be unique.
>>93434883meds
>>93434948Prove me wrong
>>93434934Yes, and space marines print money. The rest of the circus is there to show how awesome they are. That was the aim all along.
>>93434973Take your happy pills and all that tosh will vanish as the chemicals do their work.
>>93434981*Yawn*
>>93435003This is business. If you want bunnies and rainbows, there's literally hundreds of options.
>>93435051Never questioned that. The premise you laid out is still lame.
>>93435060>GW acts lameTell me it ain't so!
>>93435065...it's also questionable if their approach to the narrative/production is actually the best business approach, or just a lazy, self-fulfilling prophecy.
>>93431423Was it ever alive in the first place? I only ever saw flavour of the month releases of various minifactions which would be released and then quickly forgot to focus on the next big thing.
>>93431488>looked okayThey all looked like shit, dude.
>>93431423Nothing? If it didn't sell GW would have axed it years ago like they did to other games. What kind of schizo mind do you need to have to believe that the main fantasy game of the biggest miniature company of the world isn't selling good.
>>93431488Its amazing how much the newest ones mog their predecessors. Hell, they mog most Space Marines now. Only th^vv484^^e Dark Angels compare.
>>93435213Get better taste
>>93433232Not even on AoS's incredibly cramped tables can troops get into melee in the first turn r-right?
>>93435225>Y-You can't like things that I hate!Cry harder. They are genuinely beautiful. You can shit on the fatties, but the slim ones can fit in a Soulsborne game. Can't say the same for most Warhammer armor.
>>93431423Wanting to 40K-ing Fantasy and become Marvel slop for scammy phone games
>>9343549540k is just 40k'd Fantasy to begin with. Fantasy came first, and then 40k came and mogged it. I guess Fantasy is only good when it's 40k'd or something?
>>93435262I can do it in TOW with Nurgle furies.
>>93431423Chasing competitivefags Sure have a toxic tournament orientated soulless game mode for fatties but keep it only as an option not advised for the average player
>>93432273You are complaining about basic looking terrain in the starter box. Apart from the paints, texture paste for bases and tufts, all of that is included in the same box.
>>93435262One time my chaos spawn rolled a 12 on 2d6 random movement in Warhammer Fantasy and marched 24 inches and collided with a regiment of skeletons. It was pretty awesome.
>>93431488>women, blacks, sidecuts, elders>why did smegmarines failedMy guess is that the aesthetics is unappealing to the typical nerd. Maybe GW is aiming to regular people, but they're also failing at that.
>>93432229Yes. Refreshing models after nine years is reasonable, especially when the originals have aged horribly.The problem is GW releasing too many redundant kits, hence squatting half the range.
>>93433232You must spend the first turn marching forward to in straight lines and doing nothing else.
>>93435432>Nooo, you can't tell me my taste is bad! That's against the rules!Aren't you precious.
>>93435832First turn is the second deployment. If you just walk straight, your terrain setup is flawed.
>>93435907Why are all TOWfags so thin-skinned? I was just here to give an opinion, and you screech about it. I only know about Sigmar from the constant seethe threads.
>>93435722not interested in engaging with somebody that refuses to process what I wrote at all and just spits your NPC canned dialogue back at meif you're deliberately obtuse it's childish
>>93432908>TOW survives for over 3 decades>Age of Sigmar arrives>It's DOA>this somehow is not evidence that it's selling poorly
>>93431423It's very telling (probably unintentionally) that two separate good guy factions have fluff that they are either losing or lost their souls.Everyone picks on Stormcast, and it's completely deserved. They were literally designed by committee. They're such generic fantasy bullshit that they don't trigger rivet counter autism, when that's part of what made space marines successful.>>93431701>outside of starter boxes with Stormcast.NTA but that goes towards anon's point. The flagship faction of the game is a soulless husk.AoS inherited most of its good factions from WHFB. It's like the saying "It was both original and good. The original parts were not good, and the good parts are not original". Soulblight or Seraphon players would be playing Vampire Counts or Lizardmen if WHFB had stayed around. If Nighthaunt or Deepkin hadn't been invented, I daresay nobody would be clamoring for something like them.Kruleboyz and FEC are probably the best AoS original factions.
>>93431470>>93431485>>93431700>>93433681Why are people still pushing the "updated model=squatting" meme?
>>93436559>The original parts were not good, and the good parts are not originalThe warcry chaos cultists are the best models GW has put out in the last 15 years and they are highly original. Underworlds gets very good models as well.
>>93436332>canned dialogue>NPCWhat are you babbling about
>>93436270Seriously, why are you crying? This is getting sad.
>>93431488I like em
>>93436671>dude gives an opinion>screech autistically like a fucking babbling retard about it>other guy calls you out for being a little bitch>why are you cryingRopemax
>>93437521>no u!Yep. Plain sad. I hope you find something that makes you happy.
>>93436671How is me making an observation means I'm crying? How is you whining about my opinion not crying? Crying, "no, u!" doesn't change how thin your skin is.>>93437521Maybe you know better; are all TOWfags this hypersensitive?
>>93436409AoS was top 5 amongst LGS purchases for the past 7 years. Only in 2023 did that change, I think. Also, you're referring to WHFB which lasted for 3 decades, not TOW.
>>93437602Getting feisty, huh? No need. Just disengage, friend. I'm tired of your tears.
>>93437621>N-No u!C'mon now. I wasn't the one that screeched about liking a model to a random anon.
>>93436659The smaller lines have better models, true. When I talk about AoS I'm generally thinking of the main line. 40k has the same problem, the suits only meddle with things in proportion to their popularity.I would definitely consider those chaos cultists models to be "the good parts are not original". I don't think AoS is required for them to exist. If you ask "what would happen if you put 40k chaos cultists in WHFB" they're basically what you get.>>93437620It was GW's main fantasy line, of course it was popular. The argument isn't that it's losing to Oathmark or something (no offense to Oathmark), the argument is that it's horribly underperforming because it's inferior to if they had kept WHFB alive (following the Total War bump).The fact that it fell off before TOW was even released speaks volumes.
Weight loss diets it looks like
>>93437759>the argument is that it's horribly underperforming because it's inferior to if they had kept WHFB alive (following the Total War bump). The fact that it fell off before TOW was even released speaks volumes.That doesn't make sense since TOW was announced years prior, and TOW wouldn't come out for almost a year afterwards. Your argument would have more credence if the next LGS report still has AoS not in the top 5, desu. Also, the belief that WHFB totally would've rebounded because of Total War is veeeeery questionable.
>>93437778>Also, the belief that WHFB totally would've rebounded because of Total War is veeeeery questionable.>*laughs in Dawn of War*
>>93432253Well shit nibba you sold a Lord Vagisil or Veritant or whatever it is with that picture.Gonna put a helmeted head on it and use it for Trench Crusade.
>>93437815Cheaper time. Also, Dawn of War just elevated a cult classic wargame. WHFB was comparatively completely unknown until Total War came out. It still is outside of that genre.
>>93437937>WHFB was comparatively completely unknownGood rrat.>until Total War came out. It still is outside of that genre.There's no way of knowing how popular it would have been if WHFB was still alive when the games came out.>play Total War>that was cool, let's look into the minigame>it's cancelled?>ok bye
>>93431423>compfagging>double turns>elite armies with layers of defensive abilities >ranged armies that spam cheap archers with good weapon stats
>>93431423You cannot kill that which has no life.Age of Smegmar was stillborn, and never endowed with even a shred of soul.
>>93440281>No soul
>>93431423Games Workshop
>>93438049In support of this, many of the TW:W content creators received media packages/free stuff of the TK and Bret stuff when TOW was launching, rather then any of the WHFB holdouts. TOW feels fucking weird because they know what they're aiming for but they spent a whole season of no-news after announcing dwarfs then finally releasing anything. People are interested but they can't buy shit and when they do, they find out they have to do special things cause their minis are made of different shit.Not to mention all the recent squatting or switching of content with AoS. Its like partway through Spring they realized they didn't want ANY cross over between TOW and AoS.
>>93431423It is still alive.Unfortunately.
>>93431491I mean they killed warhammer fantasy despite it still selling out of pure spite and cynicism. I'm sure there's a degree of pride in wanting AoS to stick around But yeah it's probably making a pretty good income.
>>93440486Weren't tactical marines outselling entire army ranges from WHFB?
>>93431423It's not dead, it's the second best selling wargame and has been a success unlike fantasy.A better question would be, "what could cause AoS to fail?"
>>93440499They outsold the entirety of fantasy.
>>93440486>I mean they killed warhammer fantasy despite it still selling out of pure spite and cynicismNo? Fantasy was selling extremely badly, its quite known
>>93440486GW is so greedy that it refuses to digitize army books without a physical copycode. Instead, it looks at a product that is supposedly making a profit and says, " Nah, let's nuke it instead."What causes this level of delusional cope
>>93437815Dawn of War did fuck all to attract new players. /v/ermin doesn't give a shit about minis
>create new warhammer universe from the ashes of fantasy>bring back tons of old characters in a worse setting>make the horned rat a big chaos godAos deserved this and worse
>>93440563Black primer outsold all of fantasy
>>93437759>It was GW's main fantasy line, of course it was popular.So it isn't DOA?> the argument is that it's horribly underperforming because it's inferior to if they had kept WHFB alive (following the Total War bump).That's not what DOA means. Also, the assertion that WFB would have done better is pure speculation. Also, the Total War canard. Video game players throw a shitfit when their DLC goes from 15 to 20 dollars. It is pure concentrated copium to think that massive amount of these people will drop upwards to 1000$ just on the minis for one army that they now have to spend more money and time assembling and painting.
>>93440703>Also, the Total War canard. Video game players throw a shitfit when their DLC goes from 15 to 20 dollars. It is pure concentrated copium to think that massive amount of these people will drop upwards to 1000$ just on the minis for one army that they now have to spend more money and time assembling and painting.To be fair to them, people already into whatever GW systems lost their shit at models going up by $2 to $4 dollars.
>Total War could've saved WHFB
>>93440286I wish they sold all these little kreaturs separately. They're great but they're spread out over a dozen boxes. Put them in with a few sprues of gryphon hound thingies and sell them.
>>93440736It always amuses me how a fan-webcomic of this fell victim to digital-jihad.
>>93436628AoS has only existed for 9 years. No model in the range should need to "updated" yet.
>>93440826The line must go up
>>93440818Can I get a rundown on the story and what happened?
Another one of these, eh?
>>93440826>only 9 yearsIt might not feel like when your life is going nowhere, but nine years is a long fucking time.
>>93440736WAR was just one of many post-WoW disappointments. It's even worse when you learn many of the devs knew about the issues and how to fix them but EA rushed it out and put it on life-support ASAP. I had so much fun playing a Dark Elf Sorcreress and blowing people up during sieges, on the offense or defense.
>>93440834What kind of psycho was that cleric to visit a dying man and telling him his soul won't be pure unless he agrees with the cleric's taste in poets?
>>93440838Not for GW. There are models for 40k that are 20+ years old and are still being sold at modern prices
>>93440829>webcomic mostly about Warhammer Age of Reckoning>fairly decent, you still see it occasionally posted on /tg/ from time to time, especially the one about orc-election debate>turkish jihadist hackers take it down and it never comes backIf I'd have to guess, the reason it was attacked was that one of the last strips posted involved a depiction of an overweight priest of sigmar in thong or something in that regard, I think the joke was in the vein of "you expected sexy servant of Sigmar? Too bad, it's me!"
>>93440905They seem to be making an effort the past few years to update the truly ancient models like Abadon and Dante
>>93431554Compelling contribution anon. I take it by your supreme intellect that you play AoS?
>>93432049>it’s just one personMeds
>>93440956It being multiple people just makes the spamming more embarrassing.
>>93431537>no great stormhost people are attached toGood. The last thing AOS needs is marine-fuckers clamoring for shoulder pad upgrades for the Cosmic Meerkats.
>>93432379>only 3 (three) factions available currently >20 year old sculpts at 100% markup >constantly out of stock online>still outselling AoSlop I’m still seeing last edition’s starter boxes in my LGS. Kek
>>93434883Incoherent. But I get it.
>>93437638>needing a win an unwinnable argument on a Mongolian basketweaving forumYou seriously need help.
>>93440286>the most soulful part of my game is the little redditerinos on each base Kek
>>93441015Those are uhhh reddit and uhhh slop and woke. They just are ok!
>>93440961It's not spamming if it's a commonly shared belief that bears repeating.
>>93436628https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/04/04/whats-leaving-the-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-range/
>>93441135There are plenty commonly shared beliefs that don't get spammed with this kind of intensity day in day out. These are garbage troll threads that shit up the board with the same tired old shit flinging devoid of any actual discussion. I'm supposed to believe that a group of people who don't play or like AoS are relentlessly making these threads (with multiple often being up at the same time) in good faith? No other "commonly shared belief" is like this on /tg/. These people behave as if they're posting about their ex wife or something. Yes it is fucking spamming and it's obvious. Even more embarrassing is when they start having console wars with TOW - a game made by the same fucking company - while calling AoS fans "paypiggies".
>>93441156>Mostly model refreshes for sigmarines and skaven, with some frankly going away for good>Beastmen(lmao) are returning to the Fantasy so they had to leave AoS because of some retarded GW policy>Savage orcs returning to Fantasy, same retarded GW policy>Miscellaneous old ass unitsOnly ones I will mourn are the original Warcry warbands
>>93441185>There are plenty commonly shared beliefs that don't get spammed with this kind of intensity day in day out.Such as? Are you sure this is not just your personal bias speaking? What compells you to defend a corporation with such vitrol?
>>93433699Six books isn't bad, most aspiring series don't go past the first book. Of course it helps to have an established brand and the biggest wargame company backing you.
>>93441185>when they start having console wars with TOW - a game made by the same fucking company - while calling AoS fans "paypiggies".Does anyone call it TOW? Playing AoS makes you a paypig the same way that buying a new codex makes you a paypig, you already bought this shit once, falling for the scam means you should be mocked. If you're a genuinely new player who got started with AoS and never bought any models before that then you should also be mocked.
>>93441193lol, what a hilarious company.
>>93441209/wfg/ here, no stake in this thread, but yes, we call The Old World TOW & treat it like a new edition, but we call the game as a whole Warhammer Fantasy. In better times, it was just Warhammer, but then the youth started playing Warhammer 40,000, and a distinction needed to be made...TOW is alright, by the way. I've actually played it. It's acceptable. Magic is kinda lame, having to use movement trays to increase the frontage of my regiments is extremely lame, but the rules are alright. If you guys are interested, it's a good starting point, just be sure to base your models on the 6th edition base sizes & make a movement tray for when you want to play TOW. Don't fall for GW's increased base sizes, it's a scam to make it so you can't play older editions.
>93441202>gaslighting>deflection>pretends to not understand board cultureNo (you)s for you, and I'm NTART.This is a spam thread, on a spammed topic. It's like dnd edition warring, except even less relevant and somehow even MORE obnoxious.>aged because you don't know what that means>faggot
>>93441377man, I have hundreds of models across a dark elf and empire army, I'd never rebase GW can shove it up their asses!
>>93441500That's the way to be, anon. Good on you.
>>93440665Recent rise in popularity of 40k is mostly due to Dawn of War players growing up, finishing schools, getting a job and finally being able to afford minis.
>>93441193>original Warcry warbandsthey are still being sold tho, just not for AoS
>>93441005Imagine crying about someone continuing to respond to their retarded logic from before when you continue to do the same, in spite of your retarded logic from before.
>>93441542No you dunce, it's because they replaced their CEO with one that isn't terminally retarded.Did you somehow miss that modern GW is a completely different entity to how it was 10 years ago?
>>93441405Wew. Can you even speak without just spouting buzzwords? Your delusions of spame have become a self-fulfilling prophecy, it seems.But yeah. Keep avoiding the questions and just attack-attack-attack. That'll show them!
>>93441650NTA, but he's right. You trying to act retarded doesn't change anything. Commonly held beliefs don't have seethe threads pop up every other day. They just pop up randomly in regular threads. We don't have Forgotten Realms 5th edition seethe threads, despite being seen as shit.
>>93440665>>93440703Every time there's a discussion of "how did you find out about 40k" on here, Dawn of War is a popular answer.40k is the most popular mini game. The on-ramp to 40k is therefore not a different mini game. You don't have full-fledged mini gamers just saying "I should play 40k", they already do. So what gets non miniature gamers interested? An RTS that has similar appeal to /tg/. Don't act like it's a Fortnite crossover or something.Don't forget that all your coping and seething is to prove that Total War wouldn't have helped WHFB. It's self-evidently obvious it would have, so you're not helping AoS, you're just making AoS players look dense.
>>93441712>Dawn of War is a popular answerhave been 20 years ago anon
>>93441822Somebody post the DoW1 Steam player count vs the most recent AoS videogame.
>>93431423I still think that the ability to die over and over again is pathetic and losing your memory doesn't improve it, EVEN YOU WON'T REMEMBER IT!The charm of the super soldier is that he dies sacrificing himself, not dying and then returning pathetically.That's the charm of the space marines, millions of little boys who sacrifice themselves for the chance to be an angel and then die fighting and perpetuating the cycle with more little boys.
>>93441680U-huh. Yet you keep coming up with the same canned responses in a thread you supposedly hate. If this were a political topic, I'd wager these regurgitated talking points were the result of some bot, but who would care enough about AoS enough to set up one? Nobody.
>>93441891I agree, it makes them insubstantial, they're not grounded. Space marines are obviously fantastical but they have to be recruited, trained, they can be injured or killed. It's a bad time when the Astartes demigods are the more believable option.The armor is the same way. It can turn into lightning and be healed? Then there's no grime or battle damage, or even worn off paint since most of it's metallic.
>>93442044Thats why i believe stormcasts being lightning golems is a better concept, and gw going away from it was a bad move
>>93442097That's even less grounded though (pun unintended).I would have liked if they were mortals who went through magical enhancement and training from hell. Give each stormhost a more unique culture and paint their heraldry on their entire armor instead of leaving it bare metal. Everyone calls them Sigmarines anyway, why not rip off the cool parts?
>>93441542Well okay then, GW should have relaunched WFB 20 years from now when all the kids playing Total War have grown up. What a baseless, dumb argument. The reality is that a combination of Covid that drove people into quarantine and contrast paint that made painting easier attracted a whole lot of new people. Primaris marines drove existing players to pretty much re-buy their armies. Those pissed of at the Primaris went over to HH. All these sound a lot more reasonable to me than "20 year delay between you playing a game as a kid and buying minis">>93441712pic fucking related. Dawn of War came out in 2004. The very next year, GW actually turned a loss. Sales remained stagnant for a fucking decade. This is the great marketing power of DoW? I have no problem believing it attracted some people. However, in the grand scheme of things? Not that much. We already fucking know who the main customers at GW stores are. Middle aged women. You know why? They're buying it for their kids.
>>93442168Fuck, forgot pic
>>93442147>That's even less grounded thoughNot as grounded, but a more interesting convept, making them something closer to Nucrons than space marines>magical enhancement and training from hellwell, technically, reforging is a torturous process, which involves unworthy parts beaten out of the soul and thrown away, but they dont remember it either way
>>93440966>I’m still seeing last edition’s starter boxes in my LGS. KekThat means nothing, there's always gonna be leftover starter boxes at some LGS.
>>93441627Really? That's not what I understood from the article. It just said they're not gonna be produced anymore but will have profiles for the next AoS edition.
>>93431423Gaymes Workshop screwing it's yarmulke on too tight.
>>93442516Yep, if you go to GW site, all of them are still there (tho, alot of them went online only), most of the time they are sold out, but they seemingly reprint them from time to time
>>93431423F*male Stormcast Eternals>Verification not required.
>>93441039I look like this and my keyboard is exactly that.
>>93441640I didn’t read that but I wasn’t the OP arguing with you earlier.
>>93442467Well I’ll be honest this was not the case for Leviathan at least where I’m located. Cope!
>>93440286>forced soul
>>93442841Because its not 40k.40k is an exception, because it sells out day 1, literally nothing else sells out like that
>>93442898So forcing perry to make fantasy miniatures is not forced sovl
>>93442936Surely the Worlds Greatest Fantasy Game (tm) should outsell a “DOA” specialist game though right? Literally all the starter boxes for old world got swiped up within a couple weeks. Old world stuff constantly being restocked and then immediately going out of stock. I genuinely think half of AoS players are mindbroken cucks who couldn’t just play their old editions of fantasy so they dealt with AoS. Now that fantasy is back they’re moving to it again. I may be wrong in this latter assumption but that’s what I’ve gathered from online discussions.
>>93440486>despite it still selling outIs this what fantasy fans tell themselves nowadays?
>>93442966The problem with ToS is that most of the models look like absolute ass and I'm pretty sure like half of them are made to order.
>>93442147So.... Order Chosen, like they were always meant to be?
>>93442966>Surely the Worlds Greatest Fantasy Game (tm) should outsell a “DOA” specialist game though right?Yeah, that's just the thing. Nobody here has any real idea how much either of these games sell since GW doesn't publish that kind of data. You guys are reduced to pure speculation based on "it happens to be out of stock at this given moment" as if this proves anything. Shit, being constantly out of stock may well indicate low production numbers to begin with. Or not, you don't really know. >Literally all the starter boxes for old world got swiped up within a couple weeks.Yeah, it was a throwback product. I'm sure nostalgia had a lot to do with it. Jumping into some kind of "haha AoS is dead" conclusion is just dumb. Also jumping into some kind of "TOW is DOA" simply because initial enthusiasm doesn't hold is similarly dumb. The success of either of these games isn't going to depend on whatever pissing match the people on this board are constantly trying to force between them. It's even clear they're in competition with each other since their styles of fantasy and gameplay are very different. >Old world stuff constantly being restocked and then immediately going out of stock.This describes pretty much everything on GW's site. Pretty much every LGS out there bitches at them for not producing enough of this or that. >I genuinely think half of AoS players are mindbroken cucks who couldn’t just play their old editions of fantasy so they dealt with AoS.The problem that 4channers have is that they think everything in world revolves entirely around their petty grudges. Here's a more likely scenario: AoS built a new and different audience for itself. This game is 10 years old at this point and you're still stuck believing that everything that happens to it must be related to TOW in some way and that any gain by TOW must necessarily be a loss for AoS like it's some kind of zero-sum game.
>>93442966>I genuinely think half of AoS players are mindbroken cucks who couldn’t just play their old editions of fantasy so they dealt with AoS.People who couldn't play fantasy anymore switched to Kings of War - a game literally made by a former GW game designer from a company literally founded by a former GW manager.
>>93443280>AoS built a new and different audience for itself.I'll add to that: I think a lot of fans that got into Warhammer through Total War probably ended up in AoS and are going to stay there. If I remember correctly, a recent poll showed Seraphon are actually more played than Stormcast. I very much doubt most, or even half, of that is just people using their Fantasy era armies. Those people aren't going to jump ship from AoS to ToW, especially considering the rank and file nature of TOW means most AoS models are hard to use even if you replace the base.
>>93435654No, I'm pointing out that this is what passes for promotional imagery in the hobby now, what people are supposed to aspire to. Please keep up.
>>93431423Since when was it 'killed'? Because it's apparently been more profitable than Warhammer Fantasy Battles ever was. Don't get me wrong, I'm not being a dick. I'm not much of a fan of AoS or anything, it's just that literally every new edition of AoS/40k, or every time some big set/event drops, >lol muh game so deadAnd it's always the exact fucking opposite. Doesn't mean I like it or anything, it's just not the reality at all. Also most fuckwits forget that Warhammer Fantasy Battles was financially on a downward trend for two EDITIONS.
The new stormcast look good, especially in color schemes that isn't the gold and blue
>>93443487>Also most fuckwits forget that Warhammer Fantasy Battles was financially on a downward trend for two EDITIONS.To play devils advocate, it was a downward trend primarily because GW's retardation and awful production schedule at the time.
>>93441542>>93441642I think you are both wrong. Me and my old gaming buddies didn't get back into it because of Dawn of War or some CEO changes. We got back into it because the kids are all mostly grown up. We were all into RT, 2nd and 3rd edition 40k and 3rd and 4rth edition WFB as teens and young adults. I suspect a considerable part of the growth is old grogs with families getting back into the hobby.
>>93443808Except nothing they did once that trend became clearly apparent managed to turn things around until they blew it all up and made AoS (and then had to un-fuck the rushed first edition after year).It's easy to blame GW. And it kinda is GW- but I wouldn't call it 'retardation'. It's hard to be retarded and still somehow manage to sell the overpriced bullshit they put out.Unpopular Opinion: Old World didn't really have an 'entry point' for newer players, 'smaller games' didn't really work well, and people saw 40k as a better 'beginner option' over Fantasy.Also literally every single FLGS or club on the planet had one WFB Skaven player- that one fucking asshole. You know what I mean.
>>93443854>>93443854When I saw "GW is retarded" I mean "The old GW leadership is retarded" and what sunk Fantasy Battles. I also agree that Fantasy not having a good entryway was a huge problem, because the community made their own entryway of "Buying some guys army secondhand at a huge discount as he is exiting the hobby" which gets GW 0 profit.
>>93443854>Old World didn't really have an 'entry point' for newer playersThe entry point was "build a 2000 point army" which meant buy, build, and paint a massive number of dudes.
>>93443908You're not wrong. Honestly, I had a WFB army in 1996. Spent hours and hours during a summer assembling and painting>Large Chaos Warriors army>Actually learned to play game>Lost interest>Had more fun playing 'Warhammer Skirmish'
>>93443928Correct. Additionally, catamites will say:>"YoU cOuLd AlWaYs PlAy LoWeR PoInTs"Which implies GW didn't deliberately engineer the game so that it wasn't actually balanced if you played with less than 1500 points. Yeah, you could play with a couple of starter boxes at around 1000 points or less. But several armies were outright a waste of time to even attempt at that level, because they literally could not do anything but push a couple of formations toward the enemy and die.
>>93443967We did have to play with lower points but I recall one player at my LGS that managed to hit 2000 points and he would get all disappointed when people weren't putting in all that work when they were also playing 40k. One guy painted dwarves but he just spray painted them all silver & gold and called it a day. I had tomb kings and it was a miserable experience.
>>93443980The best thing that ever happened to me as a Fantasy player:Some dude realizing I wasn't enjoying it and said, "Hey, you wanna try Mordheim?"
>>93444002I fucking wish man, I've had Mordheim in my sights since forever along with Necromunda. There's a couple of Necromunda players at my LGS but they're way too busy with 40k as of late but I still seem them painting up guys, I should see if they're still playing.
>>93442815Based
>>93444009As much as I bitch and seethe about GW and its faggots fanboys-I'm a total faggot for Necromunda. Honestly the best game they make, IMHO. And I'll tell you why:I spend $100 on 40k shit, and then take the time to assemble and paint... then I go play 40k and I am bored out of my mind and it doesn't feel like a significant purchase at all.I do the same for Necromunda and it actually feels like I'm really getting something out of all the money, time, and effort. And plus-I'm not bored out of my fucking mind.
>>93444076I've been going through a lot of hobby paralysis lately but Necromunda appeals to me in a lot of ways: I like how all of the models are customizable and I like that I can pull models from other armies to turn into vehicles or other assets for my gangs. I've also watched a lot of battle reports and I really like how the game tries to simulate things closer to a pen and paper style versus what 10th edition is like.
>>93443928Ah, yet another NoGames. Old World is perfectly serviceable at the even 500 pts. Try playing 40k at 500 pts and I’ll see you after the first battle round kek
>>93443854I wish people had given warhammer skirmish or path to glory in 6e an actual shotthe rules were fun, especially for PtG, and they were a great starting point. PtG was only for chaos armies unfortunately, but it could very easily have been expanded out to the other armies.
>>93444218This was over ten years ago when it was in 8th edition with 40k being in 5th I think.
>>93431491>AoS sellsSkaventide is selling so poorly GW has an entire boiler room telesales group desperately trying to convince LGS to take on more stock. The biggest buyers of it are scalpers for eBay sprue and it’s still not sold out
>>93443908I nearly bought some guys high elf army off eBay for 60quid about a year before the end times. I still wonder how the winner of that auction feels now?
>>93444272pretty happy, hopefully. Assuming he painted them and is still interested in the game, of course.
>>93444261I went on eBay and bought some of those smaller dudes that go alongside the Stormcast (forget what they're called), and I'm using them in Mordheim.
>>93431423THE ICE AGE OF SIGMAR!
>>93444261quoting opinion pieces again?
>>93444764I'm gonna say this as someone who liked Fantasy Battles quite a bit, and I find AoS to be mostly boring:Stuff like "LOL it's failing" is just hard cope. In any interview with anyone who worked at GW during the last few editions of Fantasy Battles and then moved over to AoS... they will flat out say that Age of Sigmar is more profitable than Warhammer Fantasy Battles ever was.I mean, it sucks- I get these grognards are buttmad because no one is playing the game of pushing boxes of dudes at each other, but you do have to accept that no new blood means no game. Some neckbeard buying a model every couple of months for his massive fantasy army wasn't enough, because no one wanted to buy into that game. Can't blame them- it was a huge financial investment to play "push boxes of dudes around" and get anything out of it.
>>93440867a catholic. Vile creatures, those ones
>>93444803Fundamentally, who gives a shit what sells more, they brought fantasy back. That says something.Want to know what actually matters, though? The community kept the game alive. 3rd, 6th, 8th, whatever. Warhammer Fantasy didn't die, because people kept playing it. Fuck the sales, screw the marketing. I'm glad the models are being sold again, but fuck GW. The game doesn't need to be tied to that cancer cell of a company. The only reason TOW happened is because people kept playing Warhammer Fantasy. People bought armies off ebay, people living in their area, or even just off 2nd hand websites like troll trader. Hell, some of them even bought alternative models, or 3d printed them. People gave a shit, so they got their models one way or another. These arguments about profitability or which game sold more are as retarded as they are facile. TOW is just an on-boarding process to get people to play older editions, in my opinion, as well as a chance at getting models for cheaper than the 2nd hand market. The former is great, the latter is a long shot. We'll see.
>>93444809A huge nosed individual typed this post.
>>93431423Fantasy setting is the epitome of lame nerd shit, no one wants to play that when awesome sci fi exists
>>93443453Is it really James workshop's fault that you are a retarded artist who doesn't understand marketing, though? Yeah I remember walking into a GW store in 2006 and the very first display case being a giant apocalypse battle with tyranids fighting Imperial Guard. I remember being odd at the incredible amounts of detail. The custom-made terrain, the impeccably painted models. And I remember thinking God damn this shit looks expensive and extremely time and effort consuming. And then I left and went to go buy a video game instead. It is business 101 to offer an easily accessible option for newbs so that you can get their foot in the door and then bombard them with less casual and more hardcore and expensive shit later. I'm sorry that the most basic concepts of selling a product are lost on you the most basic concepts of selling a product are lost on you
>>93444739Based
Lack of vision beyond "we want spacemarineslop but for fantasy". Sigmar became a weird combo of deviantart OC armies mixed with warhammer fantasy armies. Now GW is bringing fantasy armies back to double dip. Squatting a bunch of stormcast was also retarded since it harmed the Stormcast brand (what exists of it anyway). GW seemed to hate the different elves in fantasy and eldar types in 40k but then doubled down on the 10 kinds of elves in sigmar. Sigmar just doesn't have any focus.
>>93435697GW can't win over regular people because regulars aren't paying 100 bucks for plastic shit you have to assemble yourself. Now if it was pre-assembled and prepainted, all the funkopop-collecting now-40yo ex-hipsters would fucking love it.
>>93444258 sorry I am retarded and misinterpreted. I see now you meant older editions and I have absolutely no frame of reference for it. Apologies once again. I have had decent time at 500 pts with old world I’ll admit. Got to 1k finally and the game is lush.
>>93440499>>93440563They also outsold the rest of 40k combined you fucking retards, do you think everything except tacticals should have been shitcanned too? One product being very successful doesn't mean less profitable products get deleted, any serious company knows that but luckily for GW they have pond scum like you to keep them afloat.
>>93445623I wouldn't worry about it anon, the previous post did say "old world" which probably didn't help. I think some factions do struggle at lower points, I felt it strongly with tomb kings but not so much with my warriors of chaos at all.
>>93444881Yeah if he was a protestant there would have been no such thing as sin or repentance because one time Pastor Billy Bob done stuck your head in yonder creek so all your rapes and robberies were committed by a 'saved' individual, because Martin Luther decided to add the word 'alone' to the gospel while throwing half of the bible out
>>93446012>>93444809
>>93441185>I refuse to believe that more than one person dislikes my garbage game for retarded faggots which sells worse than the game it was supposed to replaceRetard, enough people actually fucking loathe nu-GW and aids of shitmar to keep a thread going
>>93432253You dumb animal, all of the GW stores painted their sets gold and all of the boxart for them will be in the gold color scheme. If you're going to be a cunt, at least be a correct one.
>>93441405You and the rest of the dunce squad try and get this through your thick fucking skulls. Almost everyone who gets into mini wargaming starts with GW, all of those people grow up and most of them will at some point become deeply disillusioned with the company and many will grow to literally hate it with all their hearts while still loving some long defunct product they used to make. This is not only 4chan, where no one has any reason to be polite, but the board specifically reserved for miniature wargaming which leads to this perfectly on-topic discussion of past and present games. Many many posters here grew to loathe GW years or even decades ago but are still involved with the hobby on their own terms. I love Warhammer, by which I mean something that no longer exists and never will again in any official capacity, I guarantee that I have modelled and painted more miniatures this year than you own and GW hasn't had a penny from me in years, Since 1994 I have collected literally tens of thousands of miniatures, almost all of which I still own although I have sold thousands. I cannot possibly convey to you in language how much hatred I have for this company, it's staff, current products, current settings and most of all its customers who guzzle up this revolting swill and make it all possible. I have no interest whatsoever in some game called 'the old world' because it is produced by GW and I despise GW.I have never made one of these threads but I always read and post in them because I find it entertaining to see you and the other shill fall all over yourselves coping about your abortion of a setting. You cannot comprehend this is organic because you don't actually love anything and you aren't able to hate anything either, you are as empty as the corporate garbage you defend on the internet. Enjoy the (you), you passive aggressive bitch
>>93443487>>Also most fuckwits forget that Warhammer Fantasy Battles was financially on a downward trend for two EDITIONS.And now fagmar has been on a downward trend for four editions. You know nothing about anything and pretending to not care about your failed gacha-wargame isn't working. Skaventide is dead as a fucking doornail, it is literally Gorkamorka 2.0 and if you're pretending 40k is in good shape you are fucking retarded>capcha TKO M8
>>93444764Which is infinitely more than you're quoting you slack-jawed faggot, you can't even scrape up one astroturfed anecdote about how fail of cuckmar is 'selling fast'
>>93445043>oddIt's awed you absolute fucking imbecile
>>93447042based
>>93447146"You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart."
>>93447042Nice larp. Now go back to /VST
>>93446117the gw stores have to paint the starter sets in the colors of the gw website
>>93445043Anon I've built businesses. 2 for other people and 1 for myself. No need to be "sorry" for me with your fake reddit sympathy. GW built its own business on aspirational imagery, allowing it to expand across the UK and internationally. This picture is not the same as that and that's reflected in consumer sentiment and AoS dropping down the list of top selling wargames. By the way, if you think a cohesive battlefield or even battleboard is "hardcore" then you are part of the problem lmao. Furthermore: >artist>oddYour hands appear to be shaking, maybe step away from the screen for a while champ
>>93445043>And I remember thinking God damn this shit looks expensive and extremely time and effort consuming. And then I left and went to go buy a video game instead.You couldn't have stayed over there?
>>93431423Just stop making these ugly Stormcasts, they aesthetically don't fit in with the rest of the armies.
>>93431423Soulless DEI
>>93449722How are stormcasts diverse?
>>93449735>>93449735the waamen
>>93433028Anecdotal evidence isn't worth anything you chump
>>93431423Nobody asked for yet another box full of Not-Spacemarines after GW has been insistent on spamming a new batch of them in every single box set for years, meanwhile armies like ogres are still stuck with 80s-looking sculpts.
>>93449789I wish Ogres looked like they were from the 80's.
Selling fa... ACK!
>>93441542no. the recent rise in popularity is due to internet memes and lore. you have a very small brain, soz
>>93449830I've heard very mixed things about TOW sales. In some cities it's all sold out, in other cities they haven't sold shit. The main issue is that grogs already have the old models they want so it's not like they're going to buy them again, and most of them have switched to other games anyways so there's no scene that new players can "get into".
>>93449860The starter boxes must have sold well although I still see a couple of TK ones here and there. That being said it's probably too niche to move like space marines and on top of that the boxes are huge due to the large number of minis and the old sprues not being as optimised as modern ones. If I were a shop owner I wouldn't be happy about it taking up shelf space.
>>93449830>10%Is that in an official GW store?If not, its a joke, because every good LGS is selling GW with 20% discount anyway.Come back when its 30% discount, because then it starts to get interesting.
>>93444261It's not about stock, it's about market expansion. Most people just stick to their system, usually 40k, so we have to shill AOS because our managers want every store to stock it since the logic is that since it's there people will be more willing to give it a try.Sorry for the bother, we don't like it either since it sours the relationship.Also, we learnt from Indomitus, we over produce the launch boxes on purpose since they eventually manage to sellout, Dominion was a dud since KruelBoyz aren't very popular, but you live and learn.Sorry for the inconvenience.
First of all: fuck jews, niggers, women and trans.Second: Fantasy 6ed and 40k 4ed is the only good and the best of Warhammer.
>>93444261>The biggest buyers of it are scalpers for eBay sprue and it’s still not sold outWhich is good, because it lowers the prices for the sprues.On the first day of the preorder, the Clanrats were listed for 35 for 20. Now its 18-20 for 20 rats.
>>93449860>>93449885The Bret boxes sold out very quickly, being unavailable numerous times due to short stock and some places apparently getting priority restocks for some reason. It's been what, 7-8 months since they dropped? Don't know why people are shocked that restocks are on shelves now that new product urge has died down. Tomb Kings weren't selling anywhere nearly as fast, though.
>>93449973>Now its 18-20 for 20 ratsSame in the UK too. I just had a look on eBay to see for myself. 20x clanrats on sprue have sold in the past week for £14.75, £12.99, both free postage. It was £18-20 a couple weeks ago.
>>93450025>£Ofc the bongs get it a bit cheaper still, but paying less than 1€ per rat is still a decent price in my opinion.I'll keep looking for 16-17€ and get one or two sprues. Might even pick up some of the characters. I remember the smaller dominion characters being sold for 5-8€ each, maybe that will happen with the Skaventide guys too.
>>93431491It actually has the reverse effect where I doggedly want to play the thing lol
>>93441891>>93442044I remember reading something (I don't recall if it was a campaign book or army book) but it had stormcast and skaven fighting, and its described like the stormcast are fighting and killing then they die, then they come back and do it again. The endless Skaven numbers mean this is going on for days, weeks, months, years (whatever) and I thought, 'damn this isn't interesting at all'
>>93450201Ironically this "the universe is huge, anything can happen (which means we can release new models as fast as we like)" mentality also means "nothing has consequences", which is what turns me off the setting. Same with 41k, the primarchs can't be killed so the setting is no longer high stakes.
Those who know, know about the internal politicking in GW, and how plenty in the AoS team absolutely despise the idea of TOW even being a thing, for various reasons. Either because they worked hard to finally overcome the "WHFB killer" stigma that AoS had and made it into its own distinct thing, or because they are leftist activists who see WHFB as the "Chud game"
>>93450278They didn't work that hard.
>>93431491"AoS is dead" is kind of a meme at this point. The new edition doesn't mean it's dead, the new edition just means it's dying.
