Welcome to TODD! This thread is for OPEN discussion of TSR-era Dungeons & Dragons (OD&D, Basic D&D, and AD&D including 2e) and related games, such as retroclones and OSR-adjacent games (OSE, BFRPG, S&W, LotFP, DCC, C&C, etc.). Free discussion of house rules and modifications is encouraged. For the sake of clarity, B/X is the assumed default system for any conversation unless otherwise indicated (but please do feel free to indicate otherwise).previous thread: >>93792042>What's one thing D&D does that you don't care for?>What's some rule or system implemented by a retroclone or OSR-adjacent game that you really like?>What's your take on dragons? Do you play them by the book or do you change them around?>Have you every played a ship/sea-based campaign or extended adventure? How did it go?
Anyone run His Majesty the Worm? How did you find it?Reading through it now and trying to figure out if it's worth a run (as someone new to running todd/osr games).
>>93858085>What's one thing D&D does that you don't care for?Unarmed combat/grappling (Monk is fine tho, as his fists are basically weapons as is AD&D subdual damage).Like, as long as you have "hit" points, points expended before a deadly/debilitating hit is scored, why would you allow that tried and tested system to be simply circumvented by a table-heavy subsystem? Nothing against giant frogs swallowing you on a 20/19 natural, that stuff is memorable hilarity.>What's some rule or system implemented by a retroclone or OSR-adjacent game that you really like?LotFP thief skills. The only downside is is that they cannot be instantly slotted into AD&D out of the box.>What's your take on dragons? Do you play them by the book or do you change them around?Always by the book, except when making my own/ripping them from other fantasy properties like HoMM's Rust Dragons. And even then I at most make them as strong as the Red. I simply up the numbers if I need more oomph. Seven Dragons on Dungeon level 13? They band together against the 3 lesser Titans on the same level, maintaining an uneasy balance of power with everyone else on the level scurrying underneath.
>>93858492>why would you allow that tried and tested system to be simply circumvented by a table-heavy subsystem?old d&d is a game of hard countersdoesn't matter how much hitpoints you have, the basilisk can simply petrify you.Oh you use a potion of mirror eyes to protect from the petrification gaze. Now the basilisk is just a big lizard.You are a 12 level fighter? Doesn't matter, you drown as easy as a 4 level fighter.etc, etc...Unarmed combat / grappling allow humanoid enemies to bypass the traditional combat system were your puny human that is a legendary swordsman have the advantage and level the playing field were 3 gigantic bugbears can simply bash his head.TLDR; Big humanoid monsters can leverage their size and grapple human sized high level characters.It makes it dangerous for adventurers to be surrounded by enemies even if they are so high level that they could statistically kill them all with minimum damage in traditional combat.
>>93858632>even if they are so high level that they could statistically kill them all with minimum damage in traditional combat.Sounds like a railroad DM's tool.>party travels, 9 PCs, five of them 7th level fighters and above.>DM: *rolls for random encounter* A band of two hundres 0HD bandits surprises you, 90 of them hold you down at 10 each *presents grappling rules*, leaving the others free to steal/murder you. Oh well.>also DM: Good game, guys! Same time next week with fresh level 1s?
>>93858835Git gud?I mean...It would be unrealistic if 90 dudes choose to run away from 9 dudes.Also it would be unrealistic if the 90 dudes choose to jump over sword and suicide themselves just to catch the heroes.Grappling is an interesting mechanic that helps to avoid the "impregnable invulnerability shield" of high lvl adventurers vs low level footsoldiers.It works better with humanoid monsters actually.
>>93858973>"impregnable invulnerability shield" of high lvl adventurers vs low level footsoldiersYou should consider that footsoldiers always are led by officers who can and will confront the party. In AD&D those are at least 1 first level per 10, 1 fifth level per troop type with third levels in between overseeing the first levels etc.Bandits have probabilities to employ Magic-Users and Clerics, each band has at least an eight level leading them...If you like footsoldiers so much, I suggest you switch from D&D to Chainmail or even Age of Empires. Or that one basic D&D edition that only has rules for first to third level.The idea of peasants threatening heroes (i.e. 4th level fighters and their equivalents) is misplaced in the mid-fantasy D&D is generally going for. At least in a "we all just sit on you, get gud" kind of way via grappling. Anyway I never cared to use grappling because, as you elaborated, it's simply one more save-or-die effect that bypasses HP and typical defenses.Except with grappling you have to look up 4 pages of specific rules in the DMG with according tables, and have a bunch of info on hand (relative Armor, monster/NPC dexterity/str). I wouldn't mind using grappling rules, but most homebrewed ones are written by realismfags with the exact same problems as AD&D.
>>93858492>The only downside is is that they cannot be instantly slotted into AD&D out of the box.Why's that? Can't you just drop the AD&D thief skills and use the LotFP specialist skills in their place, with no changes?
>>93859335The power curve of D&D makes the mechanics for special maneuvers (pinning, disarming, tripping, etc.) exceptionally tricky to balance. In order to keep them from either always being used or never being used, they need to approximately line up in power to standard attacks, and that means that high-hit point monsters/characters should be harder to execute a maneuver on, and it should get easier as their hit points are whittled away.
The Delightful Dungeon contest ended and the winners were announced a few days ago.https://delightfuldungeons.blogspot.com/2024/09/announcing-winners.html
>>93859335I didn't even said that ad&d grappling rules were okey.I just said that having grappling rules make sense given the context.Having special manuvers / abilities that can bypass the hitpoints system is a feature not a bug of a system that in order to keep the world a dangerous place and adventuring a fools errand plays under a basis of hard counters.The heroes can still prevail under insurmountable odds they just need to be smarter.In game terms, don't just walk in the middle of the battlefield just because your platemail +3 + dexterity gives you pseudo invulnerability under the d20 gods, use formations, terrain, magic, etc.
>>93864681There are other systems that could in theory work equally good as a grapling system.For example, using groups of several weak enemies as an stronger singular unit.
How lethal is Castles and Crusades compared to OSE?
>>93866778How lethal is your C&C GM compared to your OSE GM?
>>93866801Meant by the rules. Not gay GM fiat.
>>93866801I havent played either of them. That’s why I’m trying to figure out which one I want to GM.
>>93866778I would say C&C less lethal, due to not actually dying until -10 hit points as the rule (vs. death at 0 hit points the OSE rule).
What do authorities do in your personal or favorite setting about troubled youths who find themselves at risk of falling into the clutches of dark gods?
>>93870184Intense hot sweaty steamy boy-on-boy action, obviously.
The last /todd/ to hit bump limit was August 3rd. Everyone thread after that and prior to the current one failed to reach bump limit and hit the auto-sage time limit. Simply making an observation.
>>93870184It obviously depends on who you mean by 'authorities', which vary widely in my setting and every setting I can think of.
>>93870645I know - we should insult each other more. That always gets the post count humming.Alternatively, we could answer the Thread Questions in OP (maybe OP can clarify they are TQ's, and ask Anons to answer them)
Need some protips for surviving the first few wizard levels in AD&D 2e.
>What's one thing D&D does that you don't care for?Assuming OP means B/X (this could be a good question for each edition), I found that once you go race & class, you never want to go back.
>>93866778just like 3e that it's based on, it's less lethal at the early levels but much more lethal as they levels progress
>>93870733Always carry Sleep spell - its overpowered for a reason. Read your spells thoroughly, understand them completely.Understand combat will kill you, avoid as if your PCs life depends on it b/c it does. Feel no shame about avoiding it while others fight - it's what you do.Once you get to 3rd level, 2d-level spells offer alot of protection. Until then, play smart and choose and use your spells very carefully. It's peak AD&D to survive and thrive as a low-level wizard - go get 'em.
>>93870733Darts.
>>93870733Hide behind your allies. There’s no shame in cowardice
>>93866801>>93869429Surviving to -10 hit points gives characters a huge boost in survivability, especially at lower levels. Casters are more powerful, especially starting out, and that's a big boost to the party. Saving throws really never get any better when dealing with enemies of your level though, and while that keeps party casters riding high, it also makes things that require saves a good deal scarier for higher level characters.
>What's one thing D&D does that you don't care for?Old-school in general: saves. Specifically the save categories they chose. It's not intuitive at all how their numbers correspond to the classes.OD&D: Loyalty score for retainers. It's basically a score that's just there to affect another score (morale). Basic was right to get rid of it.AD&D: All the fiddly things the ability scores do. My % chance to bend bars probably shouldn't be something I write down on my character sheet.B/X: Not to suck its dick too much (it certainly doesn't need it) but I can't think of anything off the top of my head I dislike that's specific to it.
>>93873583That's for Castles & Crusades, obviously.
>>93873584OD&D Loyalty could be better implemented, but conceptually it's an excellent hidden stat. I'm pretty sure Gygax intended it to be played out in more detail by the referee than just as a flat mod to combat morale; c.f. The Magician's Ring. Just another case of OD&D being poorly explained IMO.
>>93873584>AD&D: All the fiddly things the ability scores do. My % chance to bend bars probably shouldn't be something I write down on my character sheet.AD&D seemed to consider adding lots of fiddly little things a good thing for their own sake, and I fundamentally disagree with that approach. Generally speaking, each bit of detail/complexity you be viewed as a bad thing for how it complicates the game, and only embraced if this is more than counterbalanced by how it otherwise improves the game, with the focus on fun.But looking at the bend bars stat, it goes from almost negligible for a person with average strength (2% for 10-11 strength) to 16% for an 18 strength. So why not just include an optional rule you can use to roll against your strength bonus on a d20? That similarly addresses the issue without requiring a whole new stat. Comparatively speaking...STR -- % in book -- % resulting from my proposal3-7 -- 0% -- 0%8-9 -- 1% -- 0%10-11 -- 2% -- 0%12 -- 4% -- 0%13 -- 4% -- 5%14-15 -- 7% -- 5%16 -- 10% -- 10%17 -- 13% -- 10%18 -- 16% -- 15%Close enough.
>>93858471I did a character gen session, and I'm running my first session this weekend. We like what we've read, but I'll tell you how it goes in practice. I'm a little nervous about the roleplay metacurrency, but my thinking is that if you keep in mind mechanistic triggers like those listed on the example bonds, it doesn't have to be too burdensome on someone who doesn't want to theater-kid.All that being said, all the creative rules I do like put it far on the peripheral side of the thread topic. If the game's philosophy wasn't so obviously steeped in the osr blogosphere, there would be hardly any connection at all.
>>93873680The problem of the Bend Bars stat specifically is that it's fundamentally nonsensical that a guy with 18/40 Strength can blow it and then a guy with 10 Strength can just luck out like a mofo and bend the bars open. The way it should work is that any given bars simply have a requisite minimum STR score to bend them and anyone with that STR or higher can do it.
>>93873769Maybe the first guy loosened the pickle jar? Or the second guy just found a weak bar or something? But what you say makes sense. I was just noticing that you could get somewhat similar probabilities to the way the book does things just using the ability bonuses.
>>93873584>>93873680System Shock and Resurrection Survival almost always being exactly 5% apart (and being expressed in percentiles, but advancing in 5% increments over most of the spread) is a good illustration of this. There's no good reason not to consolidate these into a single score. As a matter of fact, on the subject of achieving relatively similar results without introducing new stats, you could simply roll against your raw Constitution stat on a d20, taking the better of two rolls (see pic).
>>93873769>The way it should work is that any given bars simply have a requisite minimum STR score to bend them and anyone with that STR or higher can do it.Since you didn't say any one else rolls the implication in your plan is that anyone whose strength is below that minimum can't. Here's your system.>The way it should work is any time your SKILL LEVEL equals or exceeds DIFFICULTY LEVEL you SUCCEED.>Any time your SKILL LEVEL is below DIFFICULTY LEVEL you FAIL.That's a great system where there's no uncertainty at all about what a character can do. Fighter is too low a level, he can't hit that monster's AC, better hope his speed is enough to run way. My magic user of level X is high enough level that he makes all saves vs spells cast by opposing caster of level X minus N. Just going to stand there and smirk till the higher caster comes along.My thief has no chance to climb the slippery wall, guaranteed to fall, so I can choose to climb or not knowing the result.Now I'm playing a narrativist, story telling system where I choose for my PC to fail or succeed at any task.
>>93873769Neither has a good chance of bending bars/lifting gates. The roll is more about performing crazy feats of strength in moments of extreme stress such as a little old granny (Str 8) lifting a car off someone. More normal feats were supposed to be more yes/no based on max press.>>93873858>There's no good reason not to consolidate these into a single score.The point of separating them was to make things that caused a system shock roll to always be a risk while making things that called for resurrection survival to be more reliable but still potentially dangerous. Petrification/Polymorphing was supposed to be dangerous for all but the hardiest (con 25) godlike of beings. If you invert the percentages you can see that system shock is actually the chance of dying when you fail a petrification/polymorph save.
>>93873946NAYRT, but some things are more variable than others. A guy who is a bad shot still has some chance to hit a target. A weakling is never gonna be able to lift 350 pounds. And it's silly for a strong guy to have a 50% chance to lift that, fail, and then have the weakling get lucky on his 5% chance. That's not how strength works.
>>93874014>The point of separating them was to make things that caused a system shock roll to always be a risk while making things that called for resurrection survival to be more reliable but still potentially dangerous.Given that the scores are only ever 5% apart from each other, aren't part of a continuing progression (they aren't something you incrementally get better at as you level), and aren't something that come into play very often (compared to your to-hit score, which you're rolling against constantly), I don't think it's worth it to split the scores. Besides, you could just use one score and give a 5% bonus (or penalty) to your roll when using it for one purpose as opposed to the other, if even that is worth it.
>>93874019This exactly, although I'm near-certain the guy you're replying to is a troll. Variability is appropriate in variable cases, fixed outcomes for unchanging cases.
>>93874019There are a fair number of stories about people pulling off incredible/impossible feats of strength when panicking or otherwise under extreme duress that they would not have been able to perform under normal conditions. This is the sort of stuff a successful bend bars/lift gates roll was supposed to represent happening. It wasn't supposed to be used as a standard strength check.>>93874060While not common they were important rolls involved in the continued existence of a character. Succeeding/fail system shock and resurrection survival rolls was a "big thing."
>>93873858That rules. Might consolidate things this way if I run AD&D.
>>93874019Different variability is probably the thing the d20 system is the worst at modeling, but also, classic D&D wasn't that great at modeling it either.
>>93873946In the case of the bars, the way you model the uncertainty is to roll for the bar strength, not the character's success.
>>93874233If this were the case, the weaker character would just autofail if the stronger character blew his roll – since the bar strength had already been established, with the roll indicating it was beyond the capacities of the stronger man. But that's not how it actually works.
>>93874322I'm saying it would make sense for it to work that way.
After getting tired of everyone having summer plans (seriously, summer’s over you guys), I finally got one player to agree to a one on one OSE session using Black Streams Solo Rules. My first time GMing, his first time playing. To make things interesting, I just told him, “Yeah, give me a character concept and I’ll find a homebrew class for you.” Considering how much TSR released for it, how much Gavin Norman made for it, and how much homebrew people have made for it, if I really had that much trouble finding a class, I could just go on the OSE discord and crtl+F the class I’m looking for and find at least two versions of it. My question is this- I want to start my player off at a higher level, let him have some extra abilities and durability to make things more immediately fun. My question is this- what short adventure would you guys recommend for a solo character (class undecided atm).
>>93870184>troubled youths who find themselves at risk of falling into the clutches of dark gods?My homebrew not!1000AD Roman Empire with dungeons and dragons: Conscription into the army. If they are noble: arrested and taken to the nearest good and/or lawful aligned temple with the parents blessing.Without the parents' blessing, they grow up to be an evil/asshole noble, which is a welcome development from a DM's perspective, more evil fighters and magic-users to staff rival / random adventuring parties with.Neutral noble scions tend to grow up into the "1d4+1 foppish dandies with 1d4 sycophants each." random encounter on the city encounter table.
Childhood is obsessing over minute stat differences and HD sizes in kiddie D&D.Adulthood is realizing that sometimes the AD&D Cleric succeeding in turning the Lich is just fine.
>>93875228
>>93875228Enlightenment is realizing mörk börk got everything right.
I'm gonna be running 2e for the first time and I'm a bit confused on how to properly incorporate "small traps" that thieves are supposed to be able to find and disarm. Normally any traps I include in my dungeons are large, easily noticed and gameplay is focused on maneuvering around them, avoiding them, or disarming them manually. I can think of some simple examples like mundane or magical alarms or the given examples in the book like chests rigged with poison needles, but do you guys have any other go-to thief traps that you like to use?
>>93874740>short adventureNo such thing unless you homebrew it.The next best thing imo is to take one of the Fighter's/Cleric's/Thief's... Challenge modules by TSR and cut out the final dungeons/confrontations. These modules usually provide a bunch of little side stories, such as a young dragon confronting the PC, desperate and angry as the day before a Beholder petrified his mother.Take one of those and expand/cut it down as needed.
>>93875274Chests and door locks with different funny traps. Not everything has to be a poison needle.
>>93875274>"small traps" that thieves are supposed to be able to find and disarm.In my experience (1e) the thieves are glad that there aren't too many traps around, as their chances to do anything about them is so minor anyway, even at 6th level it's still shit. Thieves should shine more through their underground connections (you ARE returning to town, right?) or their backstabs (you ARE encouraging your players to multiclass the dogshit thief class with fighter, right?) or their stealth abilities (you ARE encouraging your players to multiclass Magic-Users, right?) If they already rolled up a single class thief, allow them a re-roll if human and a "divide your current XP on a multiclass" deal if demi-human. Anything else would just be cruel.
I think cleric is a silly class, can I remove it completely and have the magic-user absorb all its spells?
>>93875260Not everything, but much.
>>93875400Yes, I do it all the time and it improves the game a ton.
>>93874233Hey! That's pretty smart. I was thinking of ways to approach it from the character side and still make it consistent, but a secret roll on the bar's side could work. Actually, if you wanted some variability (adrenaline, luck, etc.), you could do something like set the bar's strength, plus 1d6. So, it could be a 14 strength bar, and you'd add 1d6 to that each time a character attempted it. If a 15 strength guy got lucky, he could bend it after an 18 strength guy who got unlucky failed, but you'd never get a guy with 14 or less strength succeeding, so it's in a range where it doesn't seem so ridiculous (and finding a weakness, adrenaline, the other guy loosening things could all reasonably come into play). The only issue is that you don't have that same long shot probability you get from the original bend bars for somebody with 17 or 18 strength, unless there's absolutely no chance for anybody for somebody with 14 or 15 strength to succeed. It changes the nature of the obstacle.
>>93875400>can I remove it completely and have the magic-user absorb all its spells?It's a serviceable fix but has some reprecussions.a) Turn Undead as an on-tap ability is gone.b) MUs are more fragile than clerics and the bulk of their utility is in spellcasting. Clerics can fight and have more survivability in general due to HD and saves.c) MUs advance much slower than clerics meaning the overall acquisition of spell power is slower. This is mitigated at the earliest levels by the cleric's slowed spell acquisition but there is a significant reversal of this at the mid levels.d) Much like spells there is also a concentration of who is able to use magic items restricted to cleric classes. It doesn't sound like much of a disadvantage but in a resource management game you don't want your fragile guy being the only one who can use the staff of healing or some equivalent scenario.I don't use the cleric much either but I also don't use a standard MU because they are too broad RAW. Go ahead and combine those lists but be aware it will change the game in matters of party composition and disposition, availability of magic to the PCs, and what I would term endurance, how long the party can remain on a delve.This is observations based on experience with changing classes and tinkering with spell lists for many years. The default game has an internal consistency that will react in unexpected ways when you make tweaks.
>>93858085TQs>>What's one thing D&D does that you don't care for?It's got to be RAW Vancian magic. I'm not opposed to spell slots or memorization but I think it is very crude. Magic and spells should be a resource and have limitations, no problem with that, I just don't like the token nature of use. Fire-and-forget as a mantra does not appeal to me. >>What's some rule or system implemented by a retroclone or OSR-adjacent game that you really like?Slot-based encumbrance. For me it's evolved into a means to monitor movement rate, item readiness, and stealth/mobility on one visually navigable page. I'll never go back to coin weight even though there are some weird anomalies occasionally. >>What's your take on dragons? Do you play them by the book or do you change them around?They're just another stat block. I change things about them all the time. As far as their scope in the world is concerned they are like any mythic creature, you don't know until you encounter it. There's only one confirmed dragon in my current game. It is a demi-god for all intents and purposes. The players have very little chance of ever encountering it.>>Have you every played a ship/sea-based campaign or extended adventure? How did it go?My current game is set in an island cluster where all of the long distance travel so far is by sea. There are some hostile things in the waters, a dragon turtle and a growing pack of seawolves most notably, but the weather is probably the most dangerous thing. The adventuring is primarily on land but they have to get from island to island and they can only resupply in the major port city so far. They almost wrecked the boat last game and I think they'll probably try to steal a new ship from the slaver cove they're infiltrating right now.
>>93876045>Slot-based encumbranceHow do you set up your slots to easily adjudicate carrying found treasure?
>>93874425Oh, right! Yeah, that's fair. It makes sense that the referee wouldn't necessarily want to manually establish the traits of each set of bars in advance.
>>93876173You could just secretly roll for the strength of the bars when and if they come into play.
>>93876264I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Anon was suggesting, at least that's what I thought I was replying to.
>>93875275>no such thing as a short adventureAre you high? Both Dragon and Dungeon magazines are littered with them. There are compilations filled with one or two session adventures. It’s to the point where I have to actually ask about which short adventure to run.
>>93874740>what short adventure would you guys recommend for a solo character (class undecided atm).I think, in a one-player scenario, you can't choose a proper adventure until you know the class/race/alignment of the player.
>>93875400No. I mean, you can, but not and still be playing D&D. You'll be playing something else and that something else will be broken in many ways.
>>93876434>one session adventuresName them.
>>93876997You know what? I think that’s fair. I actually had a dungeon in mind (the one from Carcass Crawler 2), but I decided against committing to it. It has a lot of undead in it, so things could get dicey if he can’t turn undead.
>>93877180nta but Side Treks from Dungeon Magazine. I've run several. Last one I used was Boulder Dash from Dungeon #70. You're welcome.
>>93877217The good flip side is you can really custom pick/modify an adventure just for that PC/player, as opposed to an adventure for a group where inevitably some players will like the adventure more than others. I haven't played one-player in a long time but have really enjoyed it as both a player and as a DM.Once you know what the PC will be, feel free to come back and /todd/ will be able to suggest adventures.
>>93875274Literally right off of the top of my head, a drawer that locks the thief in place while a hidden chamber opens up and a monster is released.Trying to fight a monster with one arm trapped in the drawer would be pretty interesting.
>>93878824read the OP of each
>>93877502Never mind, he cancelled.I fucking hate this hobby
>>93879540Many such cases! SAD.
>>93880349It pisses me off too. I finally get ONE (1) person to play, and then he immediately cancels because he’s too busy playing Satisfactory
>>93878824When you shit here no one can tell if your being retarded on purpose or not.
>>93874740>It's the first time for either of us doing any of this so I want to run a weird version and chage everything about it, as well as make it even more high power than it already is >what should I run to fuck this up even more lmao
>>93881666At least we can tell you're retarded by your spelling.
>>93879540>>93881700Yeah I'll take who dodged a bullet for 500 Alex
I just realized that it's not combat, it's not overcoming traps and puzzles, and it's not exploring a dark and dangerous hole in the ground that gets me going when playing or running a dungeon crawl. It's becoming filthy fucking rich from treasure and becoming powerful from +1 magic weapons and armor. What are the TSR or OSR modules for me and my group?
>>93882059This is a campaign-starter module I like. If PCs play their cards right they should end up with a nice haul.
>>93858085>What's some rule or system implemented by a retroclone or OSR-adjacent game that you really like?I really like DCC's spell variabilities - definitely makes the magic more magical imo. I'd like to homebrew a version of it for my next D&D game.
>>93882105https://archive.org/details/tsr09185n4treasurehunt/page/n6/mode/1up
>>93882970No one asked for crap from a underage retard.
>>93882105>>93882564Perfect for my needs, thank you. Seems like a nice introductory module. I like the level 0 start and graduating to a class in the middle of the adventure. I'll be running it for some younger coworkers who are interested in D&D. Just need to excise it from the setting and make sure it's doable in a one-shot session.
>>93874104>near-certain the guy you're replying to is a trollCertainly wrong. I say that an idea is bad and why it is bad and you start calling names. I have literally touched grass today. Your jadedness says you could do with some time away from 4chan too.>Variability is appropriate in variable casesBending bars is one of those cases. If you follow the proposed rule, which you'll do if you want regardless of my opinion, then by asserting that character strength X is required to bend the bar and strength X - 1 can't you're on your way to a system where the GM absolutely dictates the result of the task. This goes far beyond the GM fiat some people whine about, it makes common tasks dichotomously absolutely impossible or absolutely certain. You as player still decide if your PC does or does not make the attempt but the outcome is already known and predetermined by the GM.Note I'm not advocating for allowing things like your level 1 human D&D fighter can roll to jump 100 miles across the ocean from a standing start. Or even a running start. That's a very different sort of thing than the heroic trope of lifting a portcullis.>>93874233That doesn't address the fundamental flaw I objected to and what you describe is not uncertainty, it's an unknown, to the player, variable. Whether the difficulty level is set by the GM arbitrarily, by the adventure module author, by a random roll, the situation is the same one of skill X succeeds, skill X -1 fails.D&D, as games do generally, already allows for the DM to offer a bonus or a penalty if the bars are old or if they are extra thick, there is the bar's strength on top of the 0 - 40% chance (AD&D 1e). (If DM making changing the required roll for bend bar/lift gate is not expressly written in the DMG or elsewhere, I don't care. It's a basic DM thing to do.)For people who really do want a "you can't bend the bar/lift the gate" situation beyond DM fiat, D&D already gives that: it's called strength 7 and below.
Do you all know of any guides for min maxing characters in OD&D? Also looking for guides to play monsters more efficiently in the same version.
>>93883538Just play mörk börg. The true /todd/ game.
>>93883574Does anybody even play that shit anymore? It was stale two years ago.
>>93881700>>93881833t. samefag
>>93883620True /todd/chads do.
>>93883758I find that to be a spurious assertion
We lost our Magic-User today. He had just reached 6th level an hour before he died, ripped apart by a random encounter of 10 hill giants. We ran away and he stayed behind to fly and fireball them.1.5 years of weekly sessions. I'm going to miss him.But I'm conflicted. I wouldn't mind taking his bones and having him resurrected, but isn't this a bit "gamey"? Maybe the real thing to do is mourn him and make a burial spot.
I need some example of monster that attacks by ensnaring (tentacles, ivys, whips, etc) so I can rip out its specific rules (which save it uses, any bonus to attack, etc). Any D&D like plz, an the more the better. Thanks
I'm sorry for pushing the thread limits but I'm guessing someone here might know.Is there an Xcrawl Classics character sheet? The only ones I find online are for the PF version and the core book doesn't include one. I could modify a DCC sheet but it feels weird to have extra stats and not making a specialized one.
>>93885535Someone in the kickstarter's comment section says there's some fanmade ones in the goodman games discord chat
>>93885588thanks, it didn't even take me too long to scroll to it. It's not the most active server.
>>93883205Its not short enough to be a one-session adventure, IMO. I DM'd in in 4 sessions if I recall. Me and my group are slower then most though, and I had some new players so that always makes things slower too.But the players should be hooked as soon as they overcome the villain Hafkris. Also, I personally found the 0-lvl. experience as suggested too awkward for my taste. I think this was TSR's first foray into the concept of 0-lvl. PCs. All I am suggesting is I wouldn't let those 0-level rules suggested control the players or the adventure. I let the PCs be 1st level, but with no weapons, armor, equipment, spells memorized, holy symbols, material components, they were still very weak to start (as the module intends). Its a good adventure, the danger is persistent from the get-go but its not particularly deadly for smart players, and it has a good pace of action.
>>93883574>>93883758
>>93883620it's still getting variants/hacks, but the people moved from pretending it was "badass" to more open satire. Pirateborg is doing pretty well, I heard about Dukk Borg recently.
>>93885299I don't understand the 'gamey' reason. For me, the ability to raise or resurrect a party member is part of the game. Almost impossible at low levels, but expected at high levels. At mid levels (like 6th) it would really depend on several factors. The biggest factor for me would be the metagame reason of what the MU's player would like. If PC was beloved and you have the means, definitely bring him back. If player was kinda tired of playing that PC, and/or maybe interested in trying to play something else, bless those bones and bury them.
>>93885509RoperGrellAssassin Vineoff the top of my head. Good luck.
>>93885535>pushing the thread limits lel. Main limit to this thread is 7 day autosage and most anons here don't actually play anything enough to discuss it.
>>93886338>meme game continues to produce meme game products >doing well I suppose if the goal is sell shit to idiots.
>>93883630Nope. More than one anon can think, rightfully, that other anon was being dumb.
>>93886791I meant topic limits
Thinking about learning the basics of layout/design and actually making something. I suppose the industry standard is InDesign, but I'm not looking to become a graphic designer, just after something that'll let me shart out decent-looking PDFs.What do I need? Is Scribus OK? Any tutorials you guys would recommend?
>>93879540I'll play.Discord @raptor_eggs
Why did you lie about the DMGR1 Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide having all the 1e DMG bits that the 2e DMG was missing? It doesn't and instead has a bunch of storyfag advice that would fit right into 3e slop.
>>93887415The thing about InDesign is that people make templates you can just use. It's pretty simple if you're used to other Adobe products.A bit of a bitch to pirate against Scribus being just free.
>>93890224For 2efags, wishful thinking is identical to the truth. You'll recall that they also claim there's no difference between 1e and 2e, despite the extensive lists of differences and even though if that were true they'd have no reason to choose 2e.
>>93858085>>What's your take on dragons? Do you play them by the book or do you change them around?Dragons are great - but always play them by the book. They change significantly edition to edition, and of course they are so different at different sizes and ages.
>>93876060100 coins loose is one slot250 coins in a pouch is one slot500 coins in a small sack requires one hand to carry1000 coins in large sack requires two hands to carryGems are equivalent to a coin unless otherwise notedJewelry can typically be worn and is unecumbering but when that becomes absurd it counts as 50 coinsMy coin weight and value scale is a bit different than most versions of the game.
>>93890224You have to be either extremely new or extremely naive to believe what 2efags say about how AD&D 2e compares to AD&D. It's been a meme for years now that almost all of them lie, are in self-deception, trolling, or too steeped in storyfagging to see the difference.
>>93890224>>93890512>>93892121samefag
>>93892130>samefagNope.
Rip /todd/
>>93894566It was never alive. With Smugchud presumably banned, you can see how much of "anon" was just him sockposting to make the thread seem like it had a base.
>>93858085Okey /todd/ redpill me on "Shadowdark".There is NO WAY that there is no "big money" shilling this game.It obviously doesn't live up to the hype, but outside of that it is simply not organic how much viral advertising on youtube it had.Who is shilling Shadowdark?It is some convoluted plot to take over an OSR market share?
>>93894766It's the Mongrel Banquet Club coordinating an Astroturfing campaign, organizing brigades on plebbit and getting wrongthink authors like Macris banned for brigading while he was actually on the receiving end of it, blackmailing spineless authors like Gavin Norman into bowdlerizing Disneywood, and so on.
>>93894766Who cares?
>>93894796You, for starters, since you care enough to comment on it.
>>93894766>who is shilling shadowdark? There's a long form blog post and interview series that gets immediately taken down when you post about it here called >the worst people you have never met That gets into how internally fucked the indiosr scene is and how popularity operates there. It's likely connected here given how much immediate pushback and brigade style responses you get for criticism.
>>93894809>you have to care to be contrarian about random shitsource: this very reply
>>93894809No seriously give me a single good reason to care about Shadowdark.
>>93894766Do you have any proof of this big money shilling other than a game made by a woman makes you butthurt?
>>93894830>There's a long form blog post and interview series that gets immediately taken down when you post about it here>>93894830>It's likely connected here given how much immediate pushback and brigade style responses you get for criticism.This one?>https://archive.is/2024.01.25-152131/https://medium.com/@DrWeisman/the-worst-people-you-have-never-met-or-what-i-learned-during-a-four-year-academic-study-of-online-7da8b9065643#selection-207.0-207.146This is what we're not allowed to talk about, even on 4chan?
>>93894894I have been b& for posting it and it gets removed. Might be janny specific. The interview links are down, you have to find some randomly recording of it. They're absurd.
>>93894872>a game made by a woman makes you butthurt?I think is the other way around.Is not that a game made by a woman makes my butthurt.More like the game overrated popularity is because it was made by a woman.Or worst case scenario something even more sinister.The book looks like those cheap free pdf rpgs and it won 4 prizes and received HOURS of youtube shilling of people talking as if she reinvented the proverbial wheel.Complete insanity.
>>93894830>Emmy Allen, also known as “Cavegirl” and “Emily Allen” (author of the game Dungeon Bitches), claims Skogen abused her (Cavegirl ) during their relationship— though Skogen and Cavegirl have never physically metlolwut
>>93894872>the game was made by a woman, so it is above all suspicion and if you criticise it you're a sexistYou're a gigantic white fagcuck knight.
>>93894894>A says Stuart is “a bit of a prick”>longest paragraph i’ve ever read of people accusing the person before them of being a rapist and/or abuserthe differences between men and women
>>93895182So you have no proof and you are just a retard upset about a game for a stupid reason. Okay then
>>93895260I was not the Anon who made the initial claim, I was merely commenting on your logic and testosterone levels.
>>93895310Okay you are some other retard. Point still stands you dumb fuck.
>>93895329Dilate.
>>93895100It still sound like you are upset about the game being made by a woman. You just not liking the game is not proof of shilling of a bad game.
>>93894942>The interview links are down, you have to find some randomly recording of it. They're absurd.This the correct one?>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GJAJNbF2Tg
>>93895331No u
>>93895347Yep. It's a weird community. I'd be interested in why it got taken down and why there was such immediate removal from here as well.
>>93894894I remember reading it just because I was triggered again by highlighted text being right after the paragraph it was originally on. Horrible design.
>>93895100>More like the game overrated popularity is because it was made by a woman.was Pathfinder made by a woman?I went with PF but I changed that sentence like three times
>>93894766The wife of the designer is a marketer. They paid money to "news" outlets to promote the game. On a grassroots level shills hype the fact it's "D&D but by a HOT/GAY woman!" to virtue-signal right/left. Much of the anger towards it is that it undercut actual grassroots OSR and nuSR products.It's kind of like how "indie comics" used to be weirdoes (self-)published by barely-existent companies but are now Marvel/DC writers published by Image or IDW.
>>9389550580's and 90's indie comics had the same ultra toxic close circle comunity that nsr/osr has. A ton of themspoke shit of each other and gloated when they couldn't leave the indie scene they were supposedly building.Shadowdark had a ton of marketing so backlash is reassonable, but some people are acting as if some rando with a blog whose opinion they never cared for shilling shit made by a more popular creator to attract their audience was something never seen before and revolting. It's the same with Cairn and Knave and Liminal Horror. And it was the same with DCC. If something seems big and the people are willing to give you time a lot will gladly suck them off on camera. The alternative is being Goblin Punch and having your most well known work completely divorced from you because you didn't spread your brand.
>>93895562I will add that I'm not saying Cairn, Knave, LH or DCC are as bad as Shadowdark. I don't like Cairn, I'll try LH at some point, DCC has some stuff I love. But the marketing cycle is the same. Someone big is willing to sit down with the people struggling to get noticed so they treat them like kings.
>>93895582Cairn and Knave are worse than Shadowdark.
>>93895625Knave is bad? I never touched it. I assumed it was just another post Blackhack rules lite skelleton you plugged anywhere.
any ideas for a fitting term for doomed adventurers?i was thinking "basilisk food" or "chimera food."as in buried corpses being "worm food" and drowning victims being "fish food"
>>93895634It ain’t good. 2e actually managed to be worse than 1e. The first edition could charitably be described as incomplete. The second edition aims to patch the holes of 1e and just spackles over the gaps with a bunch of unplaytested speculation. I will say some of the random tables could be useful but it’s not really a coup of design to make a list of 100 things.This guy has a much more detailed analysis if you care.https://rancourt.substack.com/p/analysis-knave-2e
>>93895751okay, I'll read your blog after I'm done reading about how they screwed Zak Smith
>>93895719Goblin gravy, Hobgoblin hams, Fire Bettle fooder, Bugbear burritos, Carrion crawler canapes, Gnoll gnoodles, Troll tarts, Zombie zoup, Orc onaholes
>>93894830>the worst people you have never met>>93894894> https://archive.is/2024.01.25-152131/https://medium.com/@DrWeisman/the-worst-people-you-have-never-met-or-what-i-learned-during-a-four-year-academic-study-of-online-7da8b9065643#selection-207.0-207.146>>93894942>The interview links are down, you have to find some randomly recording of ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GJAJNbF2TgJesus. Fucking. Mohammed. This is even worse than I thought.
>>93894830I just finished reading it.The only thing that relates to Shadowdark is how the indie scene imploding in drama pushed people into smaller discords tied to internet celebrities. That does correlate to how a mediocre youtuber managed to get the type of push that needed a constant pressence in multiple spaces and interacting with a variety of creators. It also could relate to the lack of novelty in newer systems, since you can just resell worse stuff without checking with more experienced creators that would punch it up and the audience isn't pushed to check more and better stuff.But implying that the ultra sensitive indie scene is controlling 4chan is idiotic.
>>93895719Food for the cleanup crew. They're the creatures that scavenge the corpses of the dead in a way analogous to fish, after all.
>>93858085>>What's one thing D&D does that you don't care for?That it allowed itself to be perverted.
>>93896485No one has any real power over the game. People who play will pretty much do whatever they want in their games. Dumb faggots like you need to stop worrying about what other are doing and just do your own thing at your table.
>>93899727You are free to be too retarded to play tabletop games somewhere else faggot.
>>93899738Nah he's in the exactly perfect place.
is 2e osr? Why or why not?
>>93900143Doesn’t matter, this isn’t a strictly osr general. Do you like playing it? If yes then discuss. If no then why are you bringing it up?
>>93900155Less nogame grumbling over what is and isn't OSR.
>>93900155/todd/chads play mörk börg B)/osrg/cels play ad&d or od&d ew
>>93900163Yeah, and it would be nice if it stayed that way. It’s a boring, unproductive discussion.
can someone post a list of which games can be discussed in this general? Which of the hack books for example.
>>93900168Nobody plays mork borg. Quit pushing it. You’re an obvious and uncreative troll.
>>93900175Well you obviously dont play in general so stfu osrcel.
>>93900174>can someone post a list of which games can be discussed in this general? Which of the hack books for example.Not possible, this general is for OPEN discussion, it allows anything that is related to any TSR edition, anything NuSR, and even some 3e derivatives like DCC. The list would contain literally hundreds of systems, impossible to ever be complete, and too much work to update or maintain.
>>93900143OSR is D&D before Dragonlance
>>93900155Here you can discuss games like Mork Borg, Shadowdark, AD&D 2e, Knave, DCC, and Cairn, that are all off-topic on /osrg/.
>>93900211do people actually play any of those games besides AD&D and DCC?
>>93900236Shadowdark has been getting a lot of action at cons from what I’ve heard. It’s new and has an open license so there’s lots of material being produced for it. Some of it is actually good. Too bad it’s being made for Shadowdark.
Shadowdark just looks embarassing to me. It's yet another shitty clone that doesn't add anything interesting. Why would you play it over any other clone
>>93900312It’s new and it’s a bridge game. 5e players get to think they’re playing osr and osr players get to indulge in new school mechanics while appearing to retain credibility if they care about that kind of thing. It’s also got lots of gimmicks and people fall for that all the time. Real time torchlight is the height of gimmicky design.
>>93900462Brother there is no universe in which that counts as a D&Dlike.
>>93900312>It's yet another shitty cloneShitty, sure, but it's not a clone of anything, Anon.
>>93900211Just fyi we mainly play and discuss mörk börg
>>93900168What the fuck I like osrg now.
>>93894894Hey, the things you posted seem to be tantamount of a reason for a court case and loads of $$$ in damages...What do you mean that people are not allowed to talk about that, even on 4chan? Your post has not been deleted nor the links, haven't they? Not taunting, but looking for real answers
Unironically, why play anything other than 1E?
>>93894788Take some fucking meds you schizo loser >>93902078Just play it and stop with the asinine rhetorical questions
>>93900143Lol kill yourself
>>93901823I don't fucking know, Anon, I was asking the question myself. The guy I replied to claimed you weren't allowed to talk about it here, which I would regard as repugnant, but as you say, it turns out that the post is up and I am unbanned, so if there was any clampdown apparently it's over. (Of course, it may well be that it *was* getting banned from discussion back when that stuff might have been able to get some traction on the wider internet and the damage is done, but either way, IDK.)
>>93902195To clarify, I never read that post before, I went and found it just then, when it was mentioned, and I asked for confirmation that that was indeed the article. Which I guess it was.
>>93900143It can be but at a minimum requires a 1e DMG or copy of B/X to run it as such>>939020781e is a bit clunky and BrOSR/CAGfags are cringe
>>93902240>2e is OSR if you play AD&D or B/X insteadlol
>>93902447You can't play 1e with just the DMG
>>93902770You're not playing 2e either if you're using the AD&D DMG.
>>93903630Absolute retard take. That's like saying a B/X game that uses 1e DMG isn't B/X, or using the 1e PHB and DMG with 2e MCs isn't playing 1e, or a Holmes game that uses Marsh/Cook Expert isn't really a Holmes game.
>>93905304>That's like saying a B/X game that uses 1e DMG isn't B/XNo shit.>using the 1e PHB and DMG with 2e MCs isn't playing 1eIndeed.>or a Holmes game that uses Marsh/Cook Expert isn't really a Holmes gameOr that if you let your checkers stones move like chess knights you're not playing checkers anymore.It's almost as if games have rules. You're a very bright kid, these are advanced concepts.
>>93896564I indeed do. my own thing I was referring to the owner of D&D. Surely you understand that. While I will play in past D&D forever, present and future D&D has been perverted, That shouldn't have happened, and means the new D&D player and I will have much less in common than we would have. It's a loss.But I'm not dumb, I'm not a faggot, and I'm not worrying.
Does anyone else feel like the artwork in older TSR era editions has more grounded clothing than WotC era stuff? While I can think of counterexamples for TSR era I’m not remembering a lot of history based clothing in WotC artwork. Like a lot of fantasy weird layers of leather rather than simple tunics, hose and hood.
>>93902195>>93902201There's a lot of weird banning around it, always has been, no idea why really. Go check the 4plebs archive for this thread or the article.
Asked about Prison of the Hated Pretender last week here and didn't get much response or advice.I ran for my group anyway, and it went really well. Since we were used to 5E the small size worked out while my players fumbled around worried everything would kill them. They ended up making some smart choices and figured out the main day/night puzzle in the adventure. They found some treasure, ran away from ghosts, and "killed" the ghoul thing. They also accidentally released a wave of evil ghosts and the ghoul thing into the countryside.It was a fun time, a good adventure as an introduction and the players want to play more.
>>93882105A bit of a railroad that one. Not bad, but more linear and pushy then a lot of older or newer stuff. Great art though.
>>93907468>Does anyone else feel likeBuddy, this isn't even up for questioning. Through 2e the artists (except Erol Otus, maybe) deliberately tried to look medieval, even if they were never able able to pin down an exact era and stick to it (due to the nature of D&D itself) and despite some weird mistakes like studded leather persisting. 3E introduced the "dungeonpunk" official style that deliberately eschewed realism in favor of pants made out of belts, and since then it's all been garbage.
>>93902195Just noticed that reddit/osr has a no-zak-s rule (point 6) -if you post anything about him, your message gets deleted an dyou may be struck by a banhammer... And I think it was people from that reddit that coined a phrase "OSR is for everyone"...
>>93909382Same with Macris and ACKS.
>>93894894Jesus, this article is so dangerously close to being self-aware at times before it veers away from its own logical conclusion time and time again.
>>93908100Great to hear - sounds like you've got a campaign if you want it.
>>93910137Macris is a lolbertarian but I love his autism
Does anyone have any tables for random weather in a given climate/biome/season?
>>93916226This one is seasonal for what is probably a temperate zone. If you want to go really hard the World of Greyhawk boxed set has eight pages of excrutiating detail. You can also check out Wilderness Survival Guide.I usually just roll on what is essentially the 2d6 reaction table and adjust the weather by degrees in relation to how hostile/friendly a result I get.
>>93916226>>93916546Oops
>>93916556maybe it's because I'm a 30 year old boomer but these new fangled flowers just seem really weird to me
>>93916575>30 year old boomerUh, anon...>new fangled flowersIt's a dynamic table, not AI
>>93916556Thanks.
Does anyone have some lists of magic items?
>>93894894>that last quote>it's STILL about "MY feelings"ho-ly smokesthis was a read. very interestingI'm so glad I don't interact with people at large. I'm so glad my communities are small and insularwhat in the hell
>>93911080It's like she's trying to call out psychopaths while deepthroating them. That's the kind of porn I'd watch but not the sort of psychologist I'd give my money to.
>>93916827Yes.
>>93917235The sheer irony of watching people she's interviewing giving it the old 'I can't admit I'm surrounded by assholes because that'd mean those no good dirty chuds were right about something' without any self-reflection on her part is fascinating.
>>93910137I remember reading that Zak sued and won some cases agains his traducers, but I couldn't find anything about court cases with Macris and ACKS - have they tried to defend themselves from backbiters?
>>93920121Funnily enough from what I can tell Macris & Zak are in the reverse situation. Zak insisted that Macris join in on a dogpiling of someone or other only for Macris to go 'No, fuck off, I'm not doing that' and Zak has been salty about it ever since without a shred of self-awareness.Or do you mean the people talking shit about ACKS? If so, they threatened RPG.net with a lawsuit if they didn't fuck off and the .net mods fucked off, which is why it's a banned topic there.Honestly I think giving them prior warning is too kind, there's some people who don't deserve a shot across the prow before sinking them.
>>93917241Could you post or specify where it is please?
>>93916827Here's a decent one: https://goblinpunch.blogspot.com/2015/01/d100-minor-magical-items.html
>>93920372DMG121.
>>93920743I mean, I was looking for some beyond the core books because I've got experienced players and want to give them something new.
>>93876045I like stone weight, which is basically slots just by using larger weight units.
>>93870733Sleep & Invisibility are your go to spells.
>>93921538Doesn't Sleep risk screwing over your own party on early levels?
>>93922528Only if you cast it stupid.
>>93920148Macris is an actual Harvard lawyer so I think he probably achieved his desired result without having to file anything. At the time Big Purp wasn’t quite the pozzed cesspit it is today. And honestly wiping it out with a lawsuit would only have galvanized people that may not have otherwise cared.Autarch is doing fine. Not everything needs universal approval and being the bogeyman of the rainbow OSR isn’t a death sentence. If anything it’s a medal to hang on your chest.
>>93922528>>93922656The player actually has to have some intelligence to properly play a PC whose strength is intelligence. This is one of the many nonobvious ways AD&D is brilliant and enduring.
>>93923777>t the time Big Purp wasn’t quite the pozzed cesspit it is today.Yes it was, lmaoIt's been shit for easily twenty years now, unironically.
>>93924984Dude, the one review of ACKS, 2012 by user Gus (hmmm), is 9/10. The place was not as awful and one-sided 20 years ago. It's always had its problems but it has gotten way worse in the last decade. They used to ban performative troons instead of making them mods.
>>93925126>The place was not as awful and one-sidedThat's a pretty low bar.
