My favorite thing about the nonsense that is DnD is that they try to pass it off as this serious thing that gets novels, movies and other spinoffs.The actual game is a nonsense world where magic rules supreme, where anything can be easily prevented or undone with a spell and where magic items trivialize common problems.But pick up a DnD novel and they pretend as if it's Lord of the Rings. They never try to incorporate the nonsense of the game. How are you supposed to read a novel where a character dies when you know that by the rules there are six different ways of resurrecting them with minimum effort? And it's been like that forever, even back to the Dragonlance books, the original DnD fiction.The books and computer games and movies might as well just drop the "Dungeons & Dragons" name because they're just generic fantasy with a logo and some fanservice cameos.
>>93884468>They never try to incorporate the nonsense of the game. You obviously haven't read enough. Pool of Radiance has repeated references to the game, especially since it was based on the plot of the cRPG Pool of Radiance.
>>93884468Dragonlance absolutely did, it's the only time where spell memorization was actually depicted in a way that made any sense. Also Goldmoon resurrecting Riverwind after that black dragon fucked him up.
>>93884468>six different ways of resurrecting them with minimum effort?Name them.
>>93884468I hate how everyone in Dragonlance got a bad end.
>>93884468Do people even read D&D novels?
>>93884468>D&D>"the actual game"There is no "actual game" with D&D.
>>93884655The end result of the main writers wanting to take control back over the narrative and doing so by killing everyone off and starting over.
>>93884468You can try playing games besides DnD, you know. DnD is total normieslop anyway, calling DnD retarded is like calling Fortnite retarded, anyone who's not a retarded normie already knows.
>>93884468Eberron.
stop playing D&D
>>93884468>actual gamelol
>>93884712They did in the 90s.
>>93884712Do you realize how popular Dragonlance and Drizzzzzzt were?
>>93884838>my friends don't want to learn another game besides Fortnite>it has the most players>anybody hating on Fortnite must be a troll who doesn't play video games
Anon, there are no clerics in the Dragonlance setting. The novels are about the return of the gods. Are you talking without knowing shit?
>>93885918>"I am a true cleric now," Goldmoon said softly. "I am a disciple of Mishakal and, though I have much to learn, I have the power of my faith. Above all else, I am a healer. I bring the gift of healing back into the land." - page 263 Dragons of Autumn Twilight, first printing 1984The first non-evil cleric pops up less than halfway into the book. Even then there were evil clerics (Verminaard is 8th level in Autumn Twilight, IIRC.)
>>93884712I read some of the Ravenloft ones. They're actually not half bad.
>>93884742Oh jump in a lake
>>93884712I read more of them than I can remember as a teen.
>>93884468Pic unrelated I guess? Dragonlance has one of the better depictions of Vancian casting since Vance and Goldmoon starts resurrecting people after the black dragon.
>>93885901Get better friends. Unironically.
>>93886324>there are no clerics>there's onestill not clericsresurection isn't a normal thing for experienced adventurers until well after the book's time.
>>93884468What are you on about?Maybe how you run your games, but most settings have limitations on all that shit. Not every neighborhood priest has revive and you cant just pick up a bomb of kill all dragons at the convenience store.You made something up to be boggled about.
>>93887800>Goldmoon>ElistanThat's two good clerics in the first book alone. And nice goalpost-moving with the raise dead or resurrection thing. Just admit you don't know shit.
>>93887928>How are you supposed to read a novel where a character dies when you know that by the rules there are six different ways of resurrecting them with minimum effort?it's not goalpost moving, it's what I was adressing in the OPWould you say any random adventurer has six ways of resurecting with minimum effort in Dragonlance?
>>93887820OP doesn't have any games, he just shitposts about how much he doesn't play DnD on /tg/
>>93887820This.If you as a GM don't sit down and decide how your setting works and what is available and what isn't you're not even a GM, just a robot reading the rulebooks.
>>93887950NTA, what you said in >>93885918 is>there are no clerics in the Dragonlance settingYet, right in the first book we have three, one of them evil. You never said shit about resurrection until the anon pointed out you're wrong. Not sure what you're trying to achieve with this squirming when we can just scroll up and see what you wrote.
>>93887957I mean, you don't really got to figure it out all in detail, just having a rough sense of things is usually good enough. If not preferable so you dont have to do inventory in the moment.Is Something essentially unknown?Known but rare?acquirable but restrictive?easy to come by?that kind of level of understanding. Just to get a feel of the overall dynamics in play.
>>93884627Revive, Raise Dead, Resurrection, Reincarnation, True Resurrection, Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle.
>>93890287>requires diamond of significant value>being at least 9th level caster is "minimum effort"
>>93887992I assumed it was understood that a reply refers to the content to the thing it's replying to, in this case resurrection being a common resource in any setting. I'll be more careful and assume every posts is seen devoid of context in the future
>>93884712I've been listening to Forgotten Realms novels these past couple of years. They're shlock-kino, and good for game inspiration.
>>93890287>Wish is minimum effortLMAO at your entire existence
>>93884468Its funny what compela people to make threads with retarded and incorrect opinions. The best selling dnd books by R.A Salvatore have loads of high fantasy dnd ”nonsense of the game” like resurrection, memorized spells etc. Frankly, you don’t know what you’re talking about, and this thread is completely baseless.
>>93890657are they on yt?
>>93884712They barely publish any anymore. But back in the 80's and up until around 2007 or so you had good stuff. Azure Bonds, Cormyr trilogy, Cleric Quintet, Horselords, Harpers series, various odds and ends standalones, all good fun.
>>93890698Quite a few. I don't want to name a channel, but they're very easy to find.
>>93886899He's not wrong. DnD hasn't had a coherent gameplay loop since 3.5. 5e is just collaborative storytelling with occasional dice rolls.
>>93884468>But pick up a DnD novel and they pretend as if it's Lord of the Rings. They never try to incorporate the nonsense of the game. How are you supposed to read a novel where a character dies when you know that by the rules there are six different ways of resurrecting them with minimum effort? And it's been like that forever, even back to the Dragonlance books, the original DnD fictionThe bad guys in Dragonlance are self aware and call themselves The Forces of Evil
>>93890364>campaign starts at level 10>everyone chooses Cleric as their classSo, where's the effort?
>>93895070>So, where's the effort?Dealing with players when they start bitching.>Player: "I cast Revivify on Tom's character.">DM: "He's been dead for more than a minute. You didn't have Revivify prepared, remember? So you took a long rest to swap out prepared spells, but that's 8 hours, so Revivify won't work.">Player: "Are you really gonna make us rest another 8 hours so I can prepare Raise dead?">DM: "No, your character isn't quite as stupid as you are so we'll say you prepared Raise Dead.">Player: "Okay, so I cast it.">DM: "How.">Player: "The fuck do you mean 'how'?">DM: "The fuck I mean 'I'm looking at your character sheet and I see you have your weapons, armor, holy symbol, some trail rations, a bunch of gold and silver and copper, and a frankly distressing number of floor tiles, and that's it.' So how are you casting Raise Dead? I don't see a 500 gp diamond here.">Player: "My character would have bought a 500 gp diamond back in town.">DM: "Your character was broke back in town because you spent all that money on the Amulet of the Devout +2 and the rest on, and I quote, 'high quality floor tiles', and you made me spend ten minutes real-time looking up the prices. All this treasure that you have now is treasure you found in this dungeon.">Player: "And you didn't give us a diamond for resurrection?">DM: "The dice didn't, no. You saw me roll the loot. It was coins, a few healing potions, and a +1 warhammer.">Player: "You suck, what are we supposed to do with Tom's body?">DM: "That is not my job to figure out."
>>93895070>So, where's the effort?Dexterity and Constitution saving throws.
>>93890287For the easiest of those you've got to be *at least* level 9 and have a shitload of diamonds laying around. So, you're wrong.
>>93895180This is why 5e is popular.
>>93895070OP seems to be talking about DnD-related worlds, where people can't just choose to start their lives as level 10 clerics.
Dragonlance is not D&D. Actual D&Done novels are trash.
>>93895942Because it caters to babies who can't handle even the slightest amount of planning or difficulty?I agree.
>>93895942Even in 5e, those are high level spells that require an expensive material component in order to work. You have brain rot.
>>93895942Because 5e requires you to have a 500 gp diamond in order to cast Raise Dead and it's not the DM's job to baby you into having one?
>>93884712I did unfortunately t. Zoomer that read the first 10(?) Drizzt books last year
>>93884627For 3.5 it's way way way more than 6 it's more like 60 to 100
>>93897672>The spell is in the book, therefore it's totally always available at minimum effort!This is the end result of gameless, contextless white room theory crafting. People who've just read the book and maybe made characters, talking about how they think the game is supposed to go without ever actually having played it, literally making shit up and then getting mad about it.
>>93884468>How are you supposed to read a novel where a character dies when you know that by the rules there are six different ways of resurrecting them with minimum effort?Your group is casual as fuck.
>>93896927>>93897259I have never had a DM that requires material components for spells, and half the time, they don't even require verbal or semantic components.
>>93884838So you're subnormal. Got it.
>>93895070What DM starts a campaign at level ten and allows everyone to make clerics?
>>93902570Personal anecdotes are not an objective source of data for how the game is widely played. My DMs always track components and usually the expensive ones take quests or successful looting for treasure a dungeon to buy.
>>93902570>Well my GM doesn't actually follow the rules>Therefore, those rules are broken and badSounds like a skill issue, doesn't have a single fucking thing to do with the game, or any settings in the game. If your gm ignores spell components, leaves wands of true resurrection on the ground every 10 feet and has a level 20 cleric in every town, it's still meaningless to the discussion at hand because there aren't any settings that are assumed to work that way.
>>93884468The newest D&D movie did a good job at emulating a PC party full of idiots and nonsense but the plot hitches around the main character not being able to get a raise dead for his wife which seems very improbable.
>>93884468>I am a complete newfag that only knows the surface level of things, please read my blog
>>93884468>But pick up a DnD novel and they pretend as if it's Lord of the Rings. They never try to incorporate the nonsense of the game. How are you supposed to read a novel where a character dies when you know that by the rules there are six different ways of resurrecting them with minimum effort? And it's been like that forever, even back to the Dragonlance books, the original DnD fiction.Overlord does
>>93917859Ainz does have limits on how often he can resurrect people. 3.5e-style magic isn't native to the setting,* so GP costs are exponentially higher when using native materials rather than resources he brought with him (and his treasury is large, but not infinite).He's otherwise a very good representation of an ultra-paranoid lv40 wizard who walks around loaded with items and buffs like False Vision, Nystul's Magic Aura, Divert Teleportation, Freedom of Movement, something that blocks Time Stop, etc.* There are people who can use it because previous travellers used artifacts to create a replica Weave and connect the locals to it, but they also have native power systems which don't work on anything resembling D&D logic, and can't be learned by visitors.
>>93884468Unpopular Opinion: Having a setting where spellcasters are about as common as single mothers was a mistake.Even in the material that inspired D&D (Tolkien and various mythologies)- magic was rare, powerful, and dangerous or at least scary. People who could use magic were very, very few in number (and were rarely mortal)- and very little of their magic was the sort of spellcasting you regularly see in D&D.Also, yes- the overwhelming majority of D&D fiction is basically garbage. Much of it makes even the worst Warhammer 40k stories look like fucking Hemingway (and the 'best' Warhammer 40k stories are 'just okay' by any reasonable standards).Also it's hard to get me emotionally invested in a setting where apocalyptic threats from extraplanar entities can just be slapped away because "oh wow the gods showed up to save everyone, how awesome" And this happens pretty frequently.D&D's official settings are all shit.At best, D&D is a toolkit. It's just currently a toolkit with 6 identical cheap crescent wrenches, a crooked hammer, some toenail clippers, and some Bad Dragon dildos.
>>93917995>Having a setting where spellcasters are about as common as single mothers was a mistake.What setting are like this?
>>93890697>The best selling dnd books by R.A Salvatore have loads of high fantasy dnd ”nonsense of the game” like resurrection, memorized spells etc.Any good recs anon?
>>93884468>The actual game is a nonsense world where magic rules supreme, where anything can be easily prevented or undone with a spell and where magic items trivialize common problems.That's all entirely actually completely false. You've obviously never read a single sourcebook for D&D.
>>93923415Servant of the Shard by Salvatore or Shadow's Witness by Paul S Kemp
>>93920473D&D. You can try and pretend it's not true, but it's probably harder to become a notary than it is to be a spellcaster.>Campaigns are better without spellcastersThere I said it and I'm not going to apologize
>>93924180Spellcasters were supposed to be rare, to the point where it was recommended in the first and second editions that only 1 or 2 pure casters should be limited to a party of 6.
>>93924180D&D is not a settingyou look really dumb when you're proudly wrong.
>>93902977The one that lives in OP's head, rent free.
>>93924212>D&D is not a settingCorrect, it is a game with several settings. Each and every one of them is shit, and those who defend their quality consume said shit and literal shit. I am objectively, and proudly correct. Call the police if you're upset about it.>>93924200I remember the olden days, shortly after acquiring 'First Quest' (the intro game with the CD, player miniatures, and like 4 starter quests). This was the guidance I got from the kindly old grey-beard man at the game shop- "If you have four players, only one. If you have five, you can have two but one should be a cleric"He died
>>93895180>what are we supposed to do with Tom's body?>DM: Roll another character, Tom is fucking dead, gone, adios.
>>93924274>he diedThe guy at the game shop? That's kinda what happens to people when they get older, anon.
>>93924325Yeah. Real shit, he was actually just a really friendly old man. He always had some kind of praise for every game in his store, and that's something that stuck with me. His son inherited the store, ran it for like 2 years, and the last time I went in it look like a disorganized heap of Magic cards in boxes and the carpet was mildewed.Sad times, m'nigga.But he was the dude that sold me 'Kellar's Keep' for Hero Quest, and then many years later introduced me to First Quest when I was interested in D&D.
>>93884712I read Dragonlance as a kid up to the one novel where they got sent back in time. Lost interest at that point. They probably aren't as good as I remember them but I was 6-10 years old and a nerd.
>>93924382>His son inherited the store, ran it for like 2 years, and the last time I went in it look like a disorganized heap of Magic cards in boxes and the carpet was mildewed.That seems to be the case with most transfers of businesses to millennials.
>>93924483It's not just businesses. My old man is a bit of an antique firearms collector- and I found some guy letting go of a few pieces for a very reasonable price- I even went as far as to make sure nothing like those guns was stolen.I went, bought them, they were in pretty great condition, and gave them to my dad as a Father's day gift......got a call about 2 weeks later from the seller's mom, telling me it was a terrible mistake, the guy had no idea what he was doing when he sold those weapons for a fraction of the price and that she'd buy them back for twice what I paid for them.Dude was just a fucking idiot selling $5000+ firearms for like 1/10th of their value and was one step away from pawning them to buy video games and bullshit.Anyway, speaking of getting old shit at a cheap value- most of the Dragonlance books were sold to me in a box full of old D&D shit for a cheap price. I know it's mostly 2e and some novels, and there was a box of old Ral Partha miniatures. I should go dig it out of storage, it's probably a gold mine.
>>93884712In their heyday people read them who never even played D&D.
>>93917995>Unpopular Opinion: Having a setting where spellcasters are about as common as single mothers was a mistake.What settings are you talking about, anon, and why do you present something /tg/ constantly says as an unpopular opinion?>>93924180DnD's not a setting, and spellcasters aren't anywhere near that common in Dragonlance or Forgotten Realms. They're not super rare, either, but a wizard's still more noteworthy than an accountant or a scribe or something else equally mundane, Furthermore, most spellcasters in those settings aren't powerful spellcasters, and truly powerful magic is pretty rare in those settings.>>93924274Quality of official DnD settings and whether or not your view on the abundance of magic in them is correct are two completely different matters.>>93924738Yeah, I read Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms as a kid before I knew what DnD was, and those books were a part of hat got me to give roleplaying games a try.
>>93924956>spellcasters aren't anywhere near that common in Dragonlance or Forgotten Realms. They're not super rare, either, but a wizard's still more noteworthy than an accountant or a scribe or something else equally mundane, Furthermore, most spellcasters in those settings aren't powerful spellcasters, and truly powerful magic is pretty rare in those settings.Not only that, but even if you do find a high level spell caster, again, the cost of resurrection is high.
