Big Fist edition>previous thread>>93818204Check out here for useful links and a catalogue of relevant miniatures retailers:>/GROG/ Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/nnNqqFLn
>>93885866Damn that's quite a paintjob
Painting some warp spiders
>>93885900Some people will just go all out like that. Not me though.>>93885991Good.
I'm curious, what editions do people here usually play? Me and my group has been considering going back to 5th for a while now.
What imperial guard rules can i use for 4th edition? aside the 3.5 ed codex
>>938864342nd is our jam
>>93886633You can always check the Catachan and Armageddon codexes for a bit more in-depth rules on Jungle Fighters and PDFs. Chapter Approved 2003 has rules for the other Armageddon regiments, and 2001 and 04 have the Mechanized list rules. You could also technically count Eye of Terror's Lost and Damned as part IG (they include traitor guards).Of course, there's also the Imperial Armour tomes which include further "candy" for Guard. The most relevant ones would be Taros Campaign (Elysian and Tallarn rules), Anphelion (more Elysian) and Vraks Part 1 (Kriegs and Traitor Guard). Vraks part 2 and any further installements fall under 5th Edition, but feel free to experiment with them.
>>938864341st edition 40k, 3rd edition fantasy, largely Realm of Chaos for both - Nothing newer, Warhammer stops in the 80s
>>93886434Renegade scout when in the mood, granted by now I do want to port in guns from RT and gorkamorka, specifically the wackier ones like blunderbuss
>>93889209Who the thuck is this
>>93886434Renegade Scout modified. I might even be getting a game in this weekend. Some small stuff though, daft scenarios with whatever is on hand kind of thing like fantasy adventuring party meets Orks.
This general is awesome, just want to say that. I started with 2nd into 3rd editions, so I do have some nostalgia for them, but the rules have some strengths and aspects to them I prefer over all their predecessors.
>>93885837The pastebin has Rogue Trader to 3rd edition stuff. Anyone know where I could find 4th to some later editions like 7th? I've looked all over in the share thread archives and 40K generals and can't find them anywhere. The 40k archives have many broken links now that have been taken down, so maybe they were in those.
>>93891321look inside "extra PDF and stl" there is a torrent.
>>93886862thanks, so the first 5 original imperial armor books work for 4th edition?
>>93891610IIRC they started in 3e and they never really errata'd anything. So there are no Fire Points in the early releases and the points costs are all fuckered up for 4th. Nothing too critical for a friendly game. You can also use the old Chapter Approved vehicle design rules for 3/4e stuff if you want. I still have some conversions for my Sisters, like a modified Predator packing a pair of TL heavy bolters or multimeltas and some H-bolter sponsons. The girls really need some justice done to them at some point, they've been in the Foam Crypt for far too long.
>>93892371oh lord, that one's so old it's from back before the Eye of Terror campaign
>>93891321reeeeee not grog hissssss
>>93891321https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/90013097/#q90013822https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/84116513/#q84176247
>>93886829I only really play 4th or 5th, what do you dig so much about 2nd?
>>93894417Vehicle damage tables, all those crazy templates, psychic phase card game, wild rules for weapons like shokk attack gun or distortion cannon, possibilities in list building and gear, small scale of games and EVERY terrain on table including the table being able to be destroyed during game. Generally the depth of the game hits the sweet spot
>>93885837Thanks to the anon who posted about the Diehard Miniatures sale. Got a bunch of cool stuff.
>>93886633Here's all my cheat sheets I've made from chapter approved articles in 3rd edition White Dwarves, hope you find something you like
>>93894837Correction, almost all, the armoured company is too big to post
>>93894847
>>93894852
>>93894859
>>93894869
>>93894879
>>93894889
>>93894893And finally a bit of faith for the guard
>>93894893> Crime: Stealing the Eldar grav-vehicle belonging to the ambassador of Iyanden craftworld.Should have been given a medal, not a sentence.
>>93894918Imagine stealing inferior xeno technology instead of the far superior Chimera parked nearby
Okay, so I play 4th or 5th as mentioned above. Seriously redpill me on 2nd edition 40K and I'll give it an honest shake, I've got all the nessecary templates and cards ready to print and I've got some minis to use.
>>93896191Pros:> Battle Bible provides a nice comprehensive rules document> Very detailed rules where all wargear matters in some way (for example grenades are much more interesting than in 3-5th)> (imo) more varied and interesting mission objectives than 3-5th> Peak faction fluff-rules representation: Marines feel elite, Orks are very wacky, Eldar are bullshit, Nids are terrifying etc> Decent resources for creating custom unit & vehicle profiles> Actually plays really well as a skirmish game with very minor tweaksCons:> Lots of required peripherals (templates, tokens, sustained fire dice, psychic/wargear/mission cards, datafaxes etc.)> WILDLY unbalanced even by 40k standards> House rules essentially required as some stuff is just flat-out written badly or so OP it's just unfun (e.g. virus stratagems)> Melee combat rules are a bit of a ballache> Plays pretty well at about <1k points but slows to a crawl in larger games> Reduced faction variety (no necrons/tau/deldar, very limited squats/mechanicus)YMMV:> Armies are much smaller on average than in later editions> Herohammer is real, sticking a bunch of powerful wargear on a character is often optimal
>>93896324>YMMVI feel as though this isn't used often enough when it comes to game discussion.
>>93896443online discussion in general tends to forget that people can reasonably have different preferences when it comes to things.
>>93896324>no necronsThey were at the end of 2nd in WD. Just basic warriors, scarbs, immortals, destroyers and a lord.
>>93896544yeah I meant to put them in the limited group with squats and admech but messed up
>>93896584I don't think its just you, I've noticed they lumped into appearing in 3rd semi regularly. I wasn't around for the RT era, was there where the squats had more stuff? No one played them in my area. Only other place I experienced them having material was in Warlords but that was for Epic.
>>93896650When I said squats and admech were 'limited', it's because they never got anything beyond the very basic get-you-by army lists in the black codex. Squats were meant to get a codex at some point but it got canceled.In RT Squats got a pretty even treatment with marines/guard/eldar/orks in terms of army lists etc. In fact, Epic is probably the game that actually had the most developed Squat faction out of anything.
>>93896698Makes sense, thanks for clarifying.
>>93896584>>93896544Sisters are also very limited, in 2e they were sort of intended to be an ally-only army that got no love for 90% of 3e. There was a brief article with some wargear and a retread of the 2e Faith rules just before the Armageddon Campaign, and then suddenly they got a grossly overpowered list in Chapter Approved (along with the Necrons finally getting wargear) the summer before Eye of Terror came out.And when I say "grossly overpowered" I mean "My command squad was routinely chasing a level 3 Demon prince and his unit of Chosen of Khorne around the table like little bitches"I have a substantially less-broken houserule codex somewhere that me and my friends were using until Witch Hunters came out. Could probably back-port it to 2e if people care.
2nd Ed 40k was the best edition.
>>93897504Factual statement
>>93896191>redpill me on 2nd edition 40K>actually playing 2eThe game was an odd combination of a wild west environment mixed with a set of social contracts. Rules-wise 2e is a wild mish-mash of semi-independently developed expansions, plus a whole bunch of stuff in White Dwarf. This is very easy to miss with modern rules compilations. There wasn't a lot of playtesting at GW beyond "is this fun?", and it shows. Many of the rules additions are stuff you have to clear with your opponent, and customarily stuff like breaking out V-grenades or Special Characters was reserved for special occasions. Local game styles and commonly-used rule sets were pretty idiosyncratic and based on what people owned. You'd have to lurk a while to get the feel for how people played in your area. Even if you're using the Battle Bible today, you should talk over with your local group after games to see what works and what doesn't, and pick and choose modules that do the stuff you want. It is absolutely unsuited to tournaments. Army-building is extremely loose - you just have to have half your points taken up by a range of "squads" that would later be considered several different troop types, and couldn't spend more than a set amount of points on wargear/allies and support/characters. Allied units were sort of expected to one degree or another, but take up the same list space as tanks and Dreads. Wargear lists had only a few faction-exclusive items and people would often heavily-convert models to reflect that. Characters and wargear are MUCH more powerful than in 3e or 5e, and the power reductions in those editions is partly backlash against 2e. Overall 2e has a lot more moving parts, very few things are standardized, and it plays slower. At the same time individual actions feel a lot more impactful and the process of resolving stuff is fun. If you approach 2e as a way to goof off and have fun, it's great. If you try to break it, it *shatters* and you'll be fucking miserable.
>>93891610https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Armour_Volumes_(List)The expandable at the bottom has everything grouped by edition. Notably IA Apocalypse has an index for most armies with what book everything's in.
>>93896443>>93896494I've seen some people say 2e sucks because of "Herohammer". I personally don't like it, but I genuinely don't see how it's an objectively bad thing. I'm sure there's plenty of people who really like having their main character kick ass, not unlike how this franchise's ancillary media portrays its characters.
I haven't had any time or money to get into the hobby since starting Uni, but I will soon.Newfag question: is the Oldhammer aesthetic *just* about color schemes, unit choices etc?Or should I invest in Oldhammer-style models through resellers, 3d printers?
>>93898617>the Oldhammer aestheticIt's a mix of things. A continuum, if you will. Some of these things are contradictory, and that's okay. >Embracing doing things simply, but well>Cleaner models used as a canvas, rather than paint-by-numbers on cluttered trainwrecks>Traditional sculpting techniques, which make it easier to paint and convert models >Telling grimderp and sludge-core to fuck off>Seeing what you can do with modern skills and old designs/tools/goals>If you're old, go back and do all the shit you wanted to when you were sixteen and were physically incapable of pulling off>Fuck around with all the "GW-killing" games and model lines you were afraid to touch as a kid and MAKE them fit. No-one's going to stop youFirst and foremost you should be shooting for stuff *you* find cool, personally. Look at the old art. Go "that shit looks neat, I want to do that". Or "I really want to get a brush on that model". Then try to. Play games. Be willing to be cringey if it means having a good time. Accept that the games are a means to an end and be equally willing to hack them until they do what you want.As with all things that attract autists, there are going to be purity police and no-funz. Let them sit in the corner and be miserable. The only way to do it wrong is to go "All that old stuff looks like shit, but I have Goblin Green bases"Or call 5e Oldhammer
>>93894943>>93894910>>93894893>>93894889>>93894879>>93894869>>93894859>>93894852>>93894847>>93894837Thanks anon
>>938944172nd is just fun, you don't play to try to win, you play to have fun, on 4th you look back on a amazing dice roll as a memory, on 2nd you remember the time a glancing hit caused a vehicle to lose control for the whole game and everyone trying to get out the way
>>93889404A Chaos Spawn
>>93898768 (me)>>93898617>wordswordwordsHere's another way of putting it. Why do you think "oldhammer" is cool?>I want to paint bright color schemes, this old stuff looks kinda coolYou can do that with anything, just sack up, grab some old GW guides, and go to town. >I want to play RT/2e/some bastard child of 3-4e/a retroclone of one of the aboveDoesn't require old-school models, although they are fun. Find stuff that fits the model requirements, your budget, and your preferences, get a buddy or five, and go play games. Have a backup plan, these things tend to fall through after a few years as people move and fads fade. >I hate modern 40k/AoS/ToW and want to play something fun. Is this fun?>I like the old models and I want to do something other than put them on a shelf foreverKickass. Play some games, see if it works out for you. If it doesn't there are literally dozens of games at every scale of action that you can use the models for over in /awg/. >The old chonky sculpting style is really neat>I want to test my abilities with an old painting style, old tools, or old models>I really like specific sculptors and I want more of their workSweet. Pick up what you can afford, paint it, maybe play some games. >I want to be doing the cool thing>For some reason I want to autistically re-create an exact replica of a 1990s battle report using nothing but GW models and clones of their paints, plus an exact snapshot of the rules at a specific dateDo not do this. You will have A Bad Time. This will make you spend a shitload of money and energy on something you probably won't have fun doing.
>>93898768>>93899110Thank you both, by the way.I have Eldar, and my friends have Chaos and Orks, basically all unpainted, but 2015+ models, so we're at liberty to choose a style.I've got a 3rd ed. 40k rulebook in my childhood home basement, and I also need to buy entirely new paints.The scene in my city is highly transexual but there are oldheads who play Warhammer and I suspect they play older versions and would appreciate Oldhammer.Also something really really irks me about the loss of aesthetic/tone in the series since the old days, especially primaris and pedantically detailed sculpts/inch tall bases.
>>93896191>>93894790
I think the Gang is ready now.
>>93900346You could paint their eyes to differenciate them from plague zombies
>>93894417It's Just Fun™, lot of variety in how you can build armies, lots of things you can do in the rules. You have to play it in the spirit of the game though - small armies and don't be cheesy (unless that's the kind of game both players want)
>>93900346Nice anonOldcromumda rules
>>93894792Damn, did I miss it? Unfortunate, I'll sour grapes about the UK being too expensive to ship from.
>>93900346They look like their eyes are closed. Old necromunda models are such a gems
>>938864342nd but with mostly mid hammer models as that’s what most of us own outside of nu-shit. Speaking of does anyone know of a seller who does 2nd edition dice?
>>93905203Sustained Fire dice aren't too hard to find on ebay most of the time, but if you can't get some then you can just substitute a d3 but count a roll of a 6 as a jam.
>>938864344th for nostalgia, 5th for fun
Fun is so subjective as to be nearly useless as metric by which to judge 2nd ed. Some anon posted recently on /tg/ that 40k is a 'spectacle' game and I think its a very astute summary. 2nd ed, to myself and the members of the group I play with, is about the aesthetic and the jankiness. Playing it fast and loose, laughing at the inconsistent rules and reveling in the colour and spectacle is a peak wargaming experience unlike anything else. Later editions clarify rules and grimdark the aesthetic and thats fine. But like many things in life, its all about finding your people.
>>93905203>Speaking of does anyone know of a seller who does 2nd edition dice?If you don't mind some DiY, you can get blank 16mm dice for like 10-20c each and just print or draw stickers to put on the sides, or even stencil the faces on them. I got a brick of fifty from a company called "Ifamio" for like $8. There are some slightly more expensive ones that come in sets of colors like red, green, and yellow that also come with their own blank stickers, which is what I use for Gaslands dice.>Directional scatter die (remember that faces 1/6, 2/5, and 3/4 are opposite):1, 6 = "Hit" with small arrow2, 3, 4, 5 = scatter arrow >numerical scatter die1 = 22 = 43 = 64 = 85 = 106 = Misfire (you may notice a pattern here)>Sustained Fire Dice, which isn't *quite* a D3 because of how the faces are arranged1, 6 = 1 2, 5 = 23 = 34 = Jam"But Anon!", you say, "I only need like, five specialty dice TOPS for 2e!"Well, my friend, I also have a shitload of the old Battlefleet Gothic order dice. These are REALLY easy to stencil. You can readily use them as status markers, especially since they re-use several of the icons from 2e. Or you can even stencil on new faces to represent the most common statuses from whatever game you're playing. These dice are INCREDIBLY convenient compared to having a massive stack of chits next to the tableJam/Reload Ordnance and Lock On/Overwatch already use the 2e iconsAll Ahead Full/ ->->-> is usually "run". Come To New Heading (the scattered arrows) works well as "fleeing/broken". Brace for Impact or "!" is good for "shaken" or "hidden". I use it for "hidden" in Oldcromunda.Burn Retros (the arrow with the explosion) is good for declared but uresolved charges, although I usually use it for "this unit needs to make a morale check" with a numbered dice next to it to represent any penalties. In Oldcromunda I use it for "detected/Noise" in stealth missions.
>>93905988Pictures of the faces for Scatter dice (and Sustained Fire in a second)Something else that's INCREDIBLY useful for any game that uses some kind of Scatter Dice is a laser line pointer. Just line it up with the two corners of the dice face running through the arrow, it's hard to fuck up and it lets you check LoS without having to flip your tape measure upside-down or spend ten minutes not crushing minis with your chest/gut. You can get them as a golf accessory for like $7, there are slightly more expensive ones intended for wargaming that are about $20, or you can try to find one for putting on a miter saw that'll run you about $10. I like the ones that take AAA batteries over the ones with watch batteries. https://www.amazon.com/Infrared-Corrector-Practice-Alignment-Accessories/dp/B0BTTRHMK5/ very related. You can pull the laser core out and use it on its own.
>>93906061And the sustained fire dice layout. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=16mm+blank+dice
>>93905988Huh, I could just use my old d4s from my DnD days as sustained fire dice. Just calls 4 the Jam! facing. Thanks for pointing out the key to that, was gonna buy some blanks and scribble them up, but I can just reuse what I have already.
>>93906661Well the problem there is that you need two 1s, two 2s, a 3 and a jam, otherwise you're skewing the results pretty hard. But if you had one of those six-sided "d3s" you can just scrawl "jam" on one of the 3s and call it a day. Same thing with FATE dice, put a JAM on one of the + sides and then reat it as "blank" = 2, "-" = 1 and "+" = 3/jam
>>93905203Baron of Dice has a lot of the older dice. Scatter, artillery, sustained fire, bfg, etc. iirc there's a few options on etsy as well.
>>93893679You are awesome, thanks. Full torrent is 51GB, but it only took me about 3-4 hours. These need to be put back into mega's or something.
>>93894417>I only really play midhammer and larp as an OG, what do you dig so much about a system more relevant to the thread topic?
>>93911885Are you a spastic? Genuine question, only spastics think like that.
>>93912220I'll ask a question because this thread is chill and full of cool people like myself:Any of you veteran grognards think that there is a newer system that captures the feel and fun of old 2E but with some modern streamlining and improvements, kind of like the OSR scene for RPGs? I'm familiar with OPR but they seem so incredibly basic as to not really have much soul unless you add lots of your own special rules.
>>93912277Squad Hammer by Nordic Weasel is supposed to do that sort of thing (similarly Renegade Scout is meant to be like RT), but I haven't tried it myself.
>>93898918I dont know if thats entirely true, my favourite memory of 5th edition was my Shokk attack gun exploding on the first turn of the game after Id been hyping him up the whole time during setup, taking 90% of my lootas with him and leaving everyone around the table struggling to breath.Although Id 100% agree on 8th edition and onwards
>>93913184I remember from a 4th edition SM vs CSM game> Rhino containing a nasty chaos lord and chosen retinue bearing down on me> Gotta deal with them now or next turn they'll be right in the middle of my line> Throw every anti-tank weapon I have at it> Multiple missile launchers miss or fail to pen> Dreadnought lascannons miss despite twin-linked> Last shot left, my captain has a go with his plasma pistol> HIt -> Pen -> vehicle explodes> All the chosen die to the explosion, Lord survives on like 1 woundIt was fun
>>93913238Kek, serves him right for trying to use a rhino in 4th
>>93913238>>93913342Another story I remember using the same SM army (which was painted as imperial fists, btw)> Just after apocalypse first released> Local GW store organises big mega-game to celebrate> Drop-in affair, just show up with some dudes and they'd find you a space to deploy> Bring a small army of mostly just obligatory tac marines + a squad of termies and an assault squad with meltabombs> Get assigned to the 'mostly imperial' team> There's an ork stompa (scratchbuilt from a plastic plant pot coz this was before the official kit was released) that's absolutely TEARING us a new one> Like, the table is packed with models except for a big clear corridor in front of the stompa where it just killed everything> Get told it's my job to stop it> Spend several turns hacking away at it, chainfists and meltabombs do good work and I manage to immobilise it and take out the scarier weapons> After a while another guy shows up and joins our team with an ultramarines army> shoots something at the stompa, I forget what (maybe a land raider lascannon or something)> causes it to explode> explosion kills nearly all my armyfuckin smurfs
So here's an oddly specific question. Has anyone got a GOOD, keyword GOOD, set of solo rules for Rogue Trooper through to 5th ed warhammer 40,000? Don't hit me with that "just play both sides" I'm specifically looking for an engine of rules that make the game interesting and worth playing solo.
>>93887171I recognize that tower!
>>93913529Haven't tried any of the solo stuff for Nordic Weasel, don't like solo play, but it seems like a thing they do a lot of, is decently well received and Renegade Scout is a fairly direct homage to Rogue Trader. Rogue Trooper is the blue guy though.
>>93913673>Rogue Trooper is the blue guy though.Sorry man I'm tired.
Painted a boy
>>93914179he looks lonely
>>93914206I'll give him some company if i can find some more RT-2E orks. They pop up on the secondary market in my neck of the woods sometimes but tend to get pricey.
>>93913529S.A.R.G.E is a pretty decent solo play engine, don't have the blog link to hand, so give it a search.
>>938864344th Edition with (mostly) 3rd Codices. Anyway, I think it was cool how the original Lootas stole Imperial guns instead of just using Deffguns.
>>93898768Anti-grimdark is the ultimate groglarp, the most surface-level understanding of the game and IP literally derived solely from the fact GW had to oversaturate their paintjobs because they could only afford the cheaper end of 80's/90's printing for their magazines and boxes. It's sickening that Oldhammer has become nothing more than >If I can't name my character Obiwan Sherlock Cluseaux and waste half our play time making shitty Monty Python references then it's GRIMDERP TRASH!!!!1
>>93911885Flip that question on its head, anon, and try to imagine why someone might ask it. That's what "empathy" is. >Up 'till now I have mostly played other incarnations of this game>I hear this version is cool>Why is it cool to you guys, and what advantages does it offer me over what I've been doing already?It's not some recalicitrant faggot looking to shit things up, it's a newbie who's afraid they're going to waste their time on something they won't enjoy.>>93912277Lately I've been fucking around with the WarEngine rules, which are kind of a late-1990s clone ruleset that was technically universal. They're available for free if you poke around, and there were at least 4 incarnations. Demon Engine was not!40k, there's another post-apoc ruleset, Golgo Island (which is an 80s cartoon/anime mashup setting), and the GWAR: Rumble in Antarctica game is self-explanatory. Similar scale to 2e, with streamlined rules but nowhere near as pared-back as 3e or 4e 40k. It's got a fun dice pool mechanic and pretty robust unit-building rules. Vehicles are effectively just handled as multi-wound monsters the way RT and post-6e do it, which is very hard in the YMMV bucket.Another interesting option, but a HUGE pain in the ass, would be taking some of the rules improvements in Specialist Games-era Necromunda and the Ash Wastes vehicle supplements to build up some kind of hybrid of 2e and 3e. >>93912287I haven't tried that either, but Based Ivan tends to write pretty good rules. I'm currently trying to lure my old highschool buddy back into breaking out his orks with Renegade Scout.>>93913529Check out the AI/solo play rules for Brutality Skirmish. They're universal and designed to make the opponent smart but unpredictable. It's the best solo set I've found so far, even better than FiveCore. It should be somewhere in the Trove already, if not I've gotta go take care of dinner but I'll pop a copy up in NewVola while I'm watching sumo tonight
>>93914610Take that strawman, fold it sideways, and shove it straight up your joyless ass.Grimdark is a thing that slowly seeped more and more into the setting, but it's not grimderp. Grimderp is to fluff and rules what sludgecore is to painting: smearing fistfulls of shit all over the canvas and announcing that you're a better artist for it. It's the refusal to admit things sometimes get silly even in the worst of times, and men still tell jokes in a trench the night before they go over the top. Constantly regurgitating someone else's old jokes, shitty memes, and lolrandom crap is the other side of the horseshoe, and equally retarded. Putting dumb puns in your army list or painting metal album covers on your banners isn't the end of the world, it's exactly what we were doing in 1995 and it's entirely in the spirit of the game.
>>93915804Oh fuck off you disingenuous poofter, you know fine well that 99/100 times someone is whinging about "grimderp" they're the kind of Goblin Green-addled faggot who insists 3rd "ruined" 40K by not making every third character's name a pop culture pun and having rules that made stuff like "oopsie, I guess half your army vanishes into the warp/dies to a virus/gets eaten insideout by snotlings" into more optional/pisstake stuff in WDs rather than part of the core rules, or the ones who insist 2nd and RT are basically different IPs despite 2nd basically just being a compilation of all the fluff published for RT in various 'zines and books over its run. It happens here every other thread, so unless you're copping to being a massive newfag you can't be unaware of it.
>>93914610>>93915804>>93917662Nobody talks like this at BOYLAll flavours of Oldhammer are valid pursuits
>>93917662Take your meds and you'll stop seeing all those horrible posts you're hallucinating.
>>93913418Lmao, that's a good one
Game of 2nd tomorrow, taking one more crack at it with my themey Iron Snakes army list(made a few changes, a landspeeder for one) against a chaos force. I'll hopefully have another battle report to share, but I'm feeling good about this, numbers will be more even, maybe. Next week will be classic warzone, which I might share here, too. Or at least link a write up on my old blog, rediscovered my password for it so I'll be making it my BR and hobby archive.
>>93918646If you don't feel quite right posting it in /grog/, /awg/ still has some Warzone players too. Sadly no-one in the area still wants to play it and Prince August is slowly running out of stockpiled minis, got a couple thousand points of 1e Capitol and Cartel chilling out on the shelf. Still use some of the minis for Oldhammer though.
>>93922973>Prince August found some of the 80 troop bags of Imperial/Bauhaus troops >sold out instantly Aaaaaaaaa
>>93922973>Prince August is slowly running out of stockpiled minisYou didn't hear this from me, but PA has been recasting minis and reintroducing them back into the store. Martian Banshees have sold out three times this year only to come back into stock. But they aren't on Warzone blister packs, they get delivered in little ziplock bags with a sticker telling you what the unit is. I've received many miniatures over the years that aren't carded, have been out of stock at one point and arrive shiny and brand new, rather than faded and old.Mutant Chronicles is, evidently, too good a money market for him.
>>93923000If that were true 2e Blood Berets would be in constant stock, last time they were on the shop was 2016 and there's been no sign of them since. I wish they were recasting them on the sly to pass off as if they were found in an "unsorted box in the corner ;^)". Not to mention other hot ticket units and models.
>>93918646And it begins, dumping pictures from today's battle. 1,000 points of Iron Snakes vs. Black Legion. I'll spoil it for you here and now, my Iron Snakes lost, again. I put into effect the lessons I learned from my first two games, but my list comp really doesn't allow for what I wanted to do. I have to admit defeat and draft my army list from the ground up and commit to the optimization necessary to make codex ultramarines shine. I dunno how I'll make that happen, or what I will focus on, but I'll hopefully have something better than what I had before. Fuck me for wanting my Iron Snakes like how they were in the short stories.1/15The Iron Snakes muster!2 tactical combat squads(WD209).1 with plasma gun and a vet sergeant with power sword, bionic arm, and plasma grenades. The other with a flamer, and a sergeant with power axe and blind grenades.A devastator combat squad with 2 heavy bolters, and a sergeant with blind grenades.A dreadnought with heavy plasma gun, powerfist, frag grenade launchers.A land speeder with heavy flamer and multi-melta.A chaplain hero, with bionic arm, plasma grenades, and a combi-plasma gun.A techmarine with bolter and power axe.The foul Black Legion amass!Chaos Lord in terminator armour, power axe and combi-bolter.3 terminators, 1 reaper autocannon/power axe, 1 combi-melta/chain-axe, 1 combi-bolter/power mace.4 plague marines, aspiring champion of nurgle with a combi-melta(?).6 chaos marines, missile launcher, aspiring champion of nurgle with combi-melta(?)Dreadnought, heavy plasma gun, assault launchers, power-scourge.There were some chaos goodies, wargear cards, and some other stuff I'm forgetting. Pretty well composed list. My plan going in was concentrating force against the right side of the table and blasting the terminators with plasma fire while the landspeeder went hunting for the enemy dreadnought and missile launcher squad. Things didn't go to plan, lots of dead Imperials. Same as always.
>>939265532/15 The deployments. Squad Mykanos would advance in the cover of the dreadnought while also deploying blind grenades to game the system and open up the enemy dreadnought as the closest target for mine to try blasting it with a full power shot from the heavy plasma gun. Didn't work out, but it was cool. And it helped make the terminators a little less effective.
>>939265603/15 Devastators commanding view of the field, their job was to lay supporting fire and cut down the chaos marine squad and their damn missile launcher, they got hit with a booby trap strategy card(we removed the virus outbreak card beforehand) and that messed up that idea.
>>939265684/15 Another shot of the marines on the ground, they'd push up to the middle bunker and lie in wait until the terminators and the lord were closer, then it'd be plasma city.
>>939265715/15 A shot from the chaos side of the table, just getting a view of where their guys were, the missile squad would remain where they were and plink away at both the landspeeder(until that was shot out of the sky by the chaos dreads combi-bolter) and the devastators.
>>939265786/15 Lighting isn't the best in this half of the shop we play at, screws with my phone camera a bit, so some of these are a little too dark and others a little too bright. The Chaos side being undercoated didn't help that, but things are as they are.
>>93926584
>>939265887/15 Black Legion plague marines sneaking up through the ruins of an opera house.
>>939265978/15 Bottom half of turn 2, blind grenade deployed, dreadnought missed his shot, and the landspeeder paying for it as the chaos dread decided to run around the bunker. I really should have kept that thing behind the middle bunker. I culd have done a pop up attack and blasted its rear to slag with the multi-melta.
>>939266049/15 Damage table result 5, landspeeder blows up and the flying wreck scatters 2D6" and crashes across from combat squad Damocles.
>>9392660810/15 Another shot of the plague and regular chaos marines. They didn't get to do a whole lot this game.
>>9392661111/15 Plasma unleashed! Sadly the grenade fell short and kept shrinking its radius, woulda been nice to have it scatter into them, but space marines are good at throwing things as I learned. The rest of the plasma fire failed to affect, damn terminators made their saves to start.
>>9392662012/15 Chaos dread lines up his own heavy plasma and kills some people.
>>9392662213/15 Krak missile took out a battle brother, shaking the squad(not broken, shaken).
>>9392663514/15 Combat squad survivors form a firing line and blast at the terminators and lord, desperate attempt at this point in the game, hoping for mass fire to get through and score some wounds.
>>9392664015/15 Final game state shot, clear and total chaos victory, my mission card was assassination, trying to take out the chaos lord, or at least wounding him. Needless to say, I failed. As I said before, I will be totally rethinking how I approach building my space marine lists for 2nd edition now. I can't make the things do what I want them to like how I see it in my head, so it's time to come back down to reality.
>>93926651You got lot of good advice from last thread and looks like you came to same conclusion that your list needs reworking. Its not wrong to minmax 2nd ed space marine lists, since its kinda requirement. Rapid fire rule is your best friend, go hard on bolters
>>93926941>Its not wrong to minmax 2nd ed space marine lists, since its kinda requirement.As much as I hate it, yeah, that's the conclusion I'm reaching. Thinking of perhaps building around a full devastator squad and supporting that with more tactical combat squads and support weapons and the dreadnought. Maybe that's the way to go? There's really not much room to work with for marines at 1000ish points. Maybe I should try a different army?
>>93927166Well, first you need to cut unnecessary equipment. Did ever use those plasma grenades, servo and bionic arms? Did any of those plasma guns kill something that shooting at it twice with bolter couldn't? Rhino is also very worthwhile and consider getting a tarantula for your techmarine.
>>93913890That's okay. Its a great comic and all the 2000AD comics were strong influences on 40k.
>>93927333Well I cut all the superflulous crap out of my list, now what do I cram it with? Might as well maximise shooting.Characters:Techmarine Eutropius-Gamma:Bolt pistol and frag grenades, 33Squads:Squad Psellus: Devastator squad5 marines with bolters, bolt pistols, and frag grenades. 4 marines need heavy weapons. 1 sergeant with bolter, bolt pistol, and frag grenades. 300Support:Ancient Aritas: Dreadnought, Powerfist with built in storm-bolter, Heavy Plasma Gun.170Gorgo's Wrath: Landspeeder: Heavy flamer, Multi-melta with targeter.145Total: 648
>>93927969Well you could take full tactical with nothing but bolters, thats what I like to use in combat squads. I also like using heavy weapons in pairs, best ones are heavy plasmas and lascannons. If one misses, other can try again. Consider that tarantula, its very effective in techmarines hands. Just dont take heavy bolter one. You're also going to need proper character, this should really be what ever you think is cool and fun to play without taking quarter of your armys points. You faced those chaos terminators, that armour is very good. For single character it wont cost too much but limits their weapon loadout options. Have you looked into vehicle upgrade cards? That land speeder is very juicy target. You also dont have a psyker, but those really should be used in larger games anyway
>>93913890>>93927412Supposedly one of the assorted reasons the game was called Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader is that it came out around the same time GW got the license to produce Rogue Trooper minis and they thought people would get confused.
>>93927969Maybe a Librarian? Psychic powers are pretty stronk in 2nd
>>93929304Huh, never heard this tidbit before. Interesting if true.
Lads, help me out. Or more, inspire me.What would you tell is THE Oldhammer art? You know. One that perfectly capture artstyle and climate of 80's and early 90's Warhammers or fantasy/sf wargaming in general. My guess is either picrel or Harry the Hammer by John Blanche. What do you think?
>>93929654I would actually choose that bit of art too. The Crimson Fists in their traditional last stand impossible pile is peak grim derp.
>>93927969Scouts are very good. Sneak a missile launcher or heavy bolter with helmfire rounds into a good vantage spot and the enemy cannot ignore it
>>93929654Personally Id say this. I do enjoy Ian Millers work that fills a good few pages in the RT rulebook but his style is both very distinctive AND has been used elsewhere, so it never truly screamed Warhammer to me
>>938864345th is rubish. A direct downgrade of 4th.4th is probably the best, also imperial armour books are cool.
>>93929654>>93930936You are like a little baby
>legendary recaster that pretty much helped the wargaming scene start in my country died some years ago>3D printing is my only option for old stuff nowi just want my old minis to feel heavy
>>93932239Glue a penny or metal washer under the base :)
>>93929654Probably this one. Lots of good choices though.
>>93929147>>93929316>>93930869All interesting choices, I have a nice Librarian kitbash I've had sitting in my case since 2014 that could use some paint. So I'll perhaps give that a try. Taking a full squad of just bolter tactical marine might be good, could give some hard hitting heavy weapons to the devastator full squad and combat squad that to support the main firing line from both flanks for some crossfire mayhem. Scouts are an idea, I have shitloads of the ever wonderful(and frankly perfect) Jes Goodwin scouts. But it leaves a sour taste in my mouth, the Iron Snakes don't use scouts, they induct, apprentice, and mentor new recruits into the line squads directly, kind of, but not quite, like the Black Templars. Might give it a try, but it goes against theme.Will swing by later with a new 1k draft list.
>>93934823You can always ask your opponent if he's okay with you mixing a combat squad of Scouts into your Tac combat squad and treating them as one unit. Or accepting that the shit that happens on a 1e/2e table represents at best a handful of squads on a few thousand feet of a tiny but important section of a battle front, and the scouts are about as integrated as it gets anyway simply by being close enough to give each other the finger when they're bored..
>>93935068Oh I'm sure he would ok that, but I can just swallow my distaste and run the scouts as written instead. It's not a really big deal in the end.
>>93934823You could paint them as another chapter and say that theirs was deployed alongside the Snakes during this campaign.
>>93935109Oh, yeah, a combined force. That works out nicely, can mix it up with a nice warm tone scheme, too, for some contrast against the cold iron and white. Nice suggestion, anon.
>>93935196Np
Does anyone have the army lists section from the 40k 3rd edition rulebook? It's cut from every pdf that I could find, including the one in the OP, and codexes don't have the full wargear lists
>>93936368It's in the second mega.
>>93936831Thak you based anon, I didn't notice there as a second mega (I'm retarded)
>>93914530>>93915015Sorry for the slow reply. Sarge and Brutality didn't really do what I was looking for, something that would generate interesting movement and engagement in Rogue Trader, but I did like Sarge and its "certain objectives assert a certain strength pull over units" method of gameplay, thaht was really cool.
>>93927969Without doing the classic cheese of tooled up characters like loading up a captain with combat drugs, melta bombs, jump pack, power fist, chainsword and conversion or displacer field to herohammer it up, I think the best places to put points in space marines for 2nd are:Heavy weapons, roughly in this order: assault cannon, multimeltas, heavy bolters, lascannon, heavy flamers, heavy plasma guns, missile launchers,Assault Cannon fuck EVERYTHING up but have very limited platforms to put them on. Multimeltas also fuck up most everything, they don't have the range of other heavy weapons but Marines have the platforms to get them into position and get a couple of shots out of them. Heavy Bolters, Heavy Flamers and Lascannon are obvious specialists and all absolutely great at their job. Though with much risk reward on the heavy flamer for its range, expect to get one shot with it so make it count. The missile launcher is something I never quite was happy with because its killing power really isn't great for the points compared to taking a specialist gun, but you can if you put the points in pull some serious surprises with blind, plasma or anti-plant missiles. But I think if you're not going to take a missile launcher for utility missiles, Absolutely take heavy plasma for consistently fucking shit up. Smaller blast than a frag but strong enough to reliably hurt tough targets where a frag won't, and of course, that strength 10 BFG shot when really needed is just better than a krak missile even though you lose a turn to recharge.
>>93937586Special weapons: special weapons honestly the plasma gun is best if you're going to take any. You're going to get to fire it twice per game because of recharge. But you're only going to get to fire a flamer maybe once, and a melta gun is actually best used in close combat against a vehicle for the bonus armour penetration, so it's probably best handed off to assault marines tasked with tank hunting or shooting big monsters in the arse where they can't charge due to being out of arc from.For the most part though >>93929147 anon is right, if a squad just holes up in cover and rapid fires with bolters, you're probably going to put out as much damage, and put the points into heavy weapons instead.Consider taking the points saved on various things and taking Veterans instead of regular tactical marines. +1 WS, BS, I and LD for 15 or 30 points for combat/tactical squad. What's not to love about rapid fire bolters that hit on 2+ and that can be a surprisingly vicious close combat opponent? Hell, take a heavy weapon in that squad rather than a special so you can ensure that gun is hitting on a BS of 6 due to the targeter and use that fucker to ensure something important dies. Just remember your target prioritisation rules. As for characters, consider maybe a nice Chaplain if you want a fun leader and to avoid psychics. Everyone loves a good black suit and skull helmet right? Plus he comes with a conversion field and power weapon built in, and you can give him some fancy other gear.
>>93937621Very good advice, I didn't even remember using veterans instead. Yeah, veterans with heavy weapon slapped to them is absolutely great. But honestly I cannot recommend plasmas, even heavy plasma has recharge downside to it which means you get to fire them twice a game. You already have heavy plasma on dread, which doesnt need to recharge if it stands still but like anon said, consider assault cannon, its THE weapon for marines.
>>93937621>>93939337Are you two positive about plasma alwats needing to recharge after firing? Because the reference card doesn't list recarge or max power for the humble infantrymans plasma gun, it gets a sustained fire die but that's about it, could the weapon reference card be misprinted?
>>939134181st ED apocalypse.Finally have non VDR way to play with my scratchbuilt warlord titan.Store game, lots of players on each side.Titan is blasting stuff left and right, dealing lots of damage.Some kid shows up late and the redshirts allow him to join in, have him place his entire army (maybe 1000 points or less of chaos marines) on the other side of the table, tightly grouped.I look at it and realise his entire force will fit under the big green apocalypse blast template. Volcano cannon activate. Template is placed and doesn't scatter. Destroyer weapon ignores armour saves, auto wounds. Chaos marines do not have invulnerable saves. Kid needs to pick up his army and put it back in the case, he hasn't rolled a dice.Feels bad man.
>>93939484It's in the core rules
>>93939484Yeah plasma gun and plasma pistol always recharges after firing (that includes using for damaging in close combat for the pistol), heavy plasma gun only recharges after firing on maximum though so you can spam it on low fire if you want. Though for the dreadnought note that it's only allowed to avoid the recharge turn for firing on maximum power if it doesn't move in the turn it fires (codex page 55).Chaos (or chaos legions at least if you're using later traitors for access to modern terminators and other gear you don't get those) are the ones who get the can always fire but overheats plasma guns to distinguish their older tech
>>93939523>>93939549Ahhh
>>93886829>terrain is a homage to that shitty cardboard corners>quickstart unit card>green cacti with red spikespeak kino
>>93935068Model is beautiful man. Great job
>>93896324>virus stratah, remember getting wiped as orks before turn 1 even started, once. Didn't they errata it away in some WD tho?also psychic card game and wargear cards were bullshit
>>93897504vortex grenades are peak game design>nice 300-points herohammer special character you got there, shame if some cheap hero with a jump pack and 50 point grenade got close
>>93939669In WFB3 there's a spell which essentially spawns 4 vortex grenades at once. It has been banned in my play group because they are cowards.
>>93939484There's a reason you buy your guys a laspistol to back up their plasma funs in Necromunda. It also makes Combi-plasmas a really, really useful tool in 2e in a way they really aren't in 3e.That's actually something I should write up at some point, some of the ways that wargear changed/was nerfed or buffed between 2e, 3e, and 4e. Like Autocannon suddenly becoming mathematically a sidegrade from Hbolters in 3e when they were extremely dangerous in 2e.>>93939592Sadly it's not mine, it's one of the other oldhammery guys in /wip/ from a few years ago. I don't have many good photos of my old stuff, haven't been able to drag it out of the garage in a year or two. Moving, buying a house, and having a kid has been utter hell on my gaming time. I also made the terrible mistake of stripping a bunch of stuff about 5 years ago to "refresh" them and then Life Happened.This pic is a couple of my early Rhinos from my old 2e army, though, ~1998 or 1999.
>>93939920Autocannon have had a rough time. They start out being a Strength 8 D6 damage -3 save 1" radius blast weapon. Which is alright. Template weapons being a bit odd to start with though because in RT, at least initially (because of course, updates/optional rules apply), you put the template down then roll to deviate based on the size of the template, in this case a 5+, then roll to hit targets under the template. In this case you can think of it as the autocannon shooting a burst at a given area.Then in the Battle Manual update it gets "Sustained Fire" (which replaced "Following Fire" as a rule in general) instead of a template, which is great, because it's just rerolling to hit as long as it wounds, with some modifiers to hit for changing target or staying on target and possibly jamming with a repair roll needed. Lots of shooty as long as you can keep hitting, but practically limited by physicality and user skill.Then 2nd edition comes in with sustained fire dice and well, ok now its damage potential is a lot more consistent and jams easier to deal with but now it's clearly much less sustained fire than a heavy bolter which puts it in an odd niche where it's good but it comes to a question of points economy as to using it. And usually for Marines it's a nah, take the heavy bolter, bring hellfire shells if facing nids, or bring the bigger guns because they'll make them worth it. For Guard and Orks though who can bring a whole bunch of autocannon on the cheap, and might want them to do things like spray masses of those big tough space marines, bikes and other light vehicles of all kinds, medium 'nid monsters, then they're kinda worth considering instead. Basically why risk giving an Ork a lascannon? Maybe use a different anti-tank strat and get two Orks with autocannon and have them threaten everything else.
>>93940182>designEven in 2e, an autocannon will still absolutely wreck face against Marines and are surprisingly-effective weapons against Terminators. As much as anything can be, anyway, with the 2d6 save. Lighting up a Terminator squad with a Guard AC heavy weapon squad in 2e runs a very good chance of taking out 2-3 of them. In 3e you're looking at an average 50-50 chance to take out one model. And unlike 3e you have a really good chance of blowing through most tanks. Even a Land Raider's tracks and engine armor are an average roll to pen with an autocannon instead of literally impossible to even glance like 3/4e, and hull is merely a "good" roll. They also basically delete Marine Bikes instead of (again) running about a 50% chance of tagging one bike with a whole squad of guns unloading at them. It always felt wrong to me having the light anti-tank gun suddenly suck shit against, well, light tanks and power armor.
>>93940182Twinlinked autocannons on evil sunz bikes is favorite part of my ork army
Redpill me on 3rd vs 4th edition please.I'm looking to play some quick skirmish games with my normie friends using my ancient models I've never actually played with. They'll never open a rulebook on their own, so rules simplicity is of the utmost vitality. From what I've read online so far people are saying that these editions are the easiest, but seem to be divided between which is the better one. What are the pros and cons of each?
>>93944035>3rd vs 4th editionFB or 40K?
>>93944035if 40k use the 4th ed core rules with the 3rd ed codexes and supplements, if an army got 2 codexes in 3rd use the later one.
>>93944035If 40K there isn't really any "versus", 4th is basically just 3rd plus the various core rules tweaks that were put out during third and a few QoL updates, it's more of a 3.5 and there's really zero reason to play 3rd unless you're going for a hardcore "rulebook only" approach since the 3rd book does have a full set of army lists though they're a bit bland - while I'll happily play 6th WHFB with Ravening Hordes lists only, I think you give up far too much by ignoring all the developments and expansions in the 3rd/4th period for only a tiny improvement in simplicity.I think most - not all of course, but most - would agree that 3rd went a *little* too far in its intention to pare back the worst excesses of 2nd, and by the first half of 4th while the core rules were still much streamlined the wealth of supplementary content more that compensates IMO. 4th core rules, mix of 3rd, 3.5 updated(guard, csm, DA, Deldar), and early 4th(marines certainly, probably templars, some use tau and tyranids but personally I don't bother - going beyond that you run into the wonky period where they couldn't make up their minds on what direction to take the game design in so are best avoided IMO) codexes, all the applicable Imperial Armours(you can make everything up to Doom of Mymeara work without having to piss about too much), plus the campaign books and supplements(EoT, Armageddon, Cityfight etc) and the Chapter Approved books.You end up with loads of fun variant army lists, a decent amount of Your Dudes customisation in most of the main lists(Guard doctrines, Marine traits, 'nid morphs etc), and enough missions and scenarios to keep you going for years. And you can phase all the extra stuff in over time - kick off with a 500pt skirmish campaign and everyone will only need to grok the rulebook and their own codex, and if they want more they can pick it up as they go and grow their armies to 1.5k(which is IMO the sweet spot for a 4x6 table).
>>939440353rd is what I used to introduce my gf to the game just because I feel its the simplest and theres less to remember, but honestly you cant go wrong with any edition between 3rd and 5th imo.If youre talking whfb I cant help you because im 35 and have only played 6th onwards>>93944145Agreed 2bh
>>93944145It's surprising looking back how stark the difference in codices is in 4th. I'd always assumed it was a gradual shift.
Figured I'd ask here because I'm sure many anons are in this boat but I used to buy recasts from an mf guy, but I started wondering if there are other unspoken sources of metal minis, like some chinese sellers or someone who has a different selection. I wouldnt ask explicitely who but if there are could some anon give me a clue so I can do the rest?
>>93945482Ukraine used to have some, but not sure if they still do recasts or bullets nowdays....
>>93945482Mf is annoying because he keeps creeping his prices up, so i'm looking too but without much luck. Used to be a guy on etsy but he's gone now and his prices weren't competitive
>>93945482>>93945530>>93946252>My chinaman deals exclusively in 40KAll I want is some grog.
>>93944145>some use tau and tyranidsI thought Nids was, alongside Marines, the one from 4th you were better on picking. Wasn't the morph system greatly expanded?
>>93949003Speaking as someone who played a lot of nids during 3-4th, the 4th edition codex is a lot more fun, but it's also *significantly* stronger.Stealershock and Nidzilla were meta lists for a reason. I consider it similar to the Eldar codex in that it's more fun to play than the 3rd edition version, but you have to do so responsibly and not be a beardy fag about it
>>93948600your chinaman do metal? like old 40k metal? Cause I'd love some old csm or necron raiders
Any examples of 2e marines officially depicted (either minis or art) in camo? I want to do some classic inspired stuff and I have some RT references but don't know if any of that survived into 2e
>>93949800Not really, but you could always use baddab war marines, camo on a beakie or not looks mostly the same
>>93949800I remember the 2e UM codex still said that camo was approved for certain operations, but not any pictures of it. And I could be wrong. Will dig it out and see.
>>93949667Seconding this I’ve only ever played 8th but I’m tired of newhammer. My dad grew up on the older editions and I want to maybe get both of us 2e armies around 1500 points
There's a bloke in Germany, big catalogue, decent enough prices. I think I've shared the link in disguise in a previous thread. Stuff from the RT/whfb3e era to the 5th/7th.
>>93952462Anyone bought from him before? I've been eyeing his catalog for a while now and really would like to make an order.
>>93952462The 3D print ones or does your guy do metal? I’m looking for metal
>>93952523My advice for recasters is to do a small purchase to test the quality and reliability of the recasters, then if you're happy go in for a bigger purchase next time.
>>93952523Not yet, was gonna do a test order with him before committing to a big group order, but I've been hit with some bullshit lately and have been pretty tapped out. Perhaps next year? Or if my tax return gets processed, finally.>>93952601Nah, anon, he's ALL METAL, bay-beeee!
>>93952462>>93952523Youre talking about mf I think. Hes mostly fantasy and his catalog does have some blank spots I wish hed fill, plus every month he creeps up his prices, which is frustrating. At a point some of his stuff is more expensive than just being patient on ebay. His quality is good though.
>>93952707He has 50e minimum order limit, which roughly covers ~6 regular minis or one larger set. And thats not counting postage. I dont think he includes taxes tho
