Don't play DnD
>don't play DnDI think we all agree this is the correct opinion to have, but then the question becomes what is the superior Fantasy tabletop roleplaying system?
Implying that they already using AI to make the "art" of the manuals and write the "adventures". I can't wait for the great boycott against all this trash.
AI benefits everyone.
>>93888535>Play something better.I see the argument, but can I just point out that 5e or even 3.5e aren't actually /that/ bad? I mean, i feel like any good DM can make it playable to new or even experienced players.Am I wrong? I feel the bones of the system are still ok.
>>93888565hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
The author of Hoard of the Dragon Queen did a Q&A on some forum, explaining why the book was such a mess. 5E wasn't finalized yet, they were paid by the word (hence wordswordswords), all sorts.If we invent technology to make jobs obsolete, this is a win-win.
>Hasbro CEO has already been using AINow somebody can make the number go up by an unheard of degree by getting rid of all CEOs working for Hasbro... I guess?
>>93888499I, for one, welcome our AI overlords.
>>93888499I can play d&d and without buying anything that comes out or give Hasbro money, so, I don't get your issue.
>>93888565yeah if by everyone you mean the gigacorpos who control it and profit from the mountains of our stolen personal data and art they crammed into their shitty algorithm to resell us our own work in a worse formit's inherently stolen soulless trash, every corpo loser's wet dream, but it most certainly doesn't benefit the common person much, more like a more efficient way for them to profit from us
>>93888535>what is the superior Fantasy tabletop roleplaying system?God this so much. What the indie fags can't understand is that D&D is the lowest common denominator. That is BOTH the insult and the praise, rolled into one.It's not great, but it's the 'best' thing everyone can agree one.No one has ever posted a suggestion that people don't hate more than D&D.
>>93888499I won't! I started making effort to ensure that I never pay or even take for free anything made with AI, and I will definitely avoid D&D if that happens to it.
>>93888499>Hasbro says they'll be using AI in D&D productsDon't play D&D?>Don't buy hasbro products. Keep playing D&D, any version, if you want.
>>93888646The issue is that you still promote it by playing it, and other people might be influenced or motivated by your play to pay Hasbro for something made with AI. A boycott must be comprehensive. Me, I'd even disrupt other people's games, but that would, unfortunately, get me banned from stores.
>>93888535>>93888668If you really like dnd you can keep playing dnd, and just not participate in new content. All the older editions are still free to pick up on the internet. They didn't go away.
>>93888661>resell us our own work>inherently stolenWhy are the butthurt artists always economically illiterate?
>>93888627They're getting rid of every little artist and writer while the CEO rises his salary
>>93888750Truth hurts AIfags
>>93888638Into the bin
>>93888577>I feel the bones of the system are still ok.It's not as prominent as in 4E but it's like the system (even calling it a 'system') is made by programmers. Here's one universal function, we can call it over and over. Natural language? A bit ambiguous, how about variables? A skill system, even. But we've simplified it this time. Honest.The problem now is they don't need to sell anything. Players can just play the game.
>>93888577You're not, but you're on a board full of contrarians.
>>93888750Cos they're not real artists, they're constructionists with nothing new to say. If they had an original voice than AI wouldn't be able to replicate their style, they're just in denial about the fact that every real artist learnt their craft by copying others (see: japan) and adding something new to the world with that foundation.
>>93888535I like dungeon crawl classics a lot. It's a good system.
>>93888661There are open source models you could use if you stop making excuses and actually try to learn.
>>93888499AI GM could sell for a lot.
>>93888577D&D has run its course. There's nothing innovative, fun, interesting or original about the whole thing. Is easy to just let it go.
>>93888909If artists are so useless why you and the corpofaggots want to steal their art? Just do it yourself bro.
>>93888989>steal their artDo you steal art every time you look at it?The only difference between you and I is that you learn slower.
>>93888989>Just do it yourself bro.What do you think they're doing?>but algorithms don't count I saw that somewhere on twitter that it's LITERAL THEFT, no I don't understand the law why do you ask?
>>93888499People who only play a WotC edition *don't* play D&D.
>>93889023>>93889026>mental gymnasticsJesus, AI-fags are pathetic. If artists suck, stop using their art. It's that simple. And while we're at it, if art is apparently public domain by default, everything that uses AI art should be publicly available by default.
>>93888565Well for one it’s not AI, it’s a more advanced version of Cleverbot. If they were actual thinking machines I wouldn’t care as much, but attributing works to a stochastic parrot is retarded, it’s like complimenting the penmanship of a kidnapper who wrote a letter from cut out text from magazines.
>>93889023You don't do anything. AI uses stolen art from datasets.
>>93888499I like AI but I still won't play D&D
>>93889023If a work exists it has a license to be used. If you aren't paying for the license and following its allowances, yet are still using it, you're stealing. I'm sorry you don't understand basic law, but then again you probably think your collage-machine is actually intelligent, don't you.
>>93888577Take that "A good DM can fit it!" argument and throw it away. It goes without saying. It is not at all a meaningful way to praise or critique a system. A god awful faggot player can ruin the best system every designed by climbing on the table and shitting down your throat.
>>93888499Not matter how many times they were told that Hasbro and WotC would get worse, they did not listen and the paypigs and lifestyle brand subhumans took each controversy on the chin and then quietly waited for the heat to die down so they could go right back to being unnecessarily excited for the next round of products to buy. They did this shit a dozen times over the last year alone, and instead of letting it break them, the paypigs adopted this pseudo contrarian behavior where they act like WotC is great and everyone else is just trying to be trendy by hating on the popular thing. These are the same variety of subhuman faggots that pretend like Disney Star Wars is fantastic and everyone is just racist.Scorn them. Mock them. Spit on them. Kick them from your life.
I'll go one further and say copyright should be abolished. The printing press is ancient history. Anyone can copy stuff. Just give credit and list sources.
>>93888668Play Fantasy Craft, like a true schizo.
>>93888577>I feel the bones of the system are still okyeah, so you should play OSE or some other simplified version of the same resolution mechanics without the branding and 300 pages of mechanics that won't add much to anything.
>>93888535D&D 3.5
>>93889165That's fine. When are corporations like Hasbro abolishing their copyright then?
>>93888577I recently read the argument that the reason 2nd Generation Pokémon games are so divisive is because you either grew up with the originals and saw all of the many sweeping changes of the new ones as HOLY SHIT! THIS IS HUGE or you didn't at which point going back to them you see all of the places they cut corners compared to every other release because the shift in technology, while big at the time, wasn't that big compared to other generations.I feel like D&D is in a bit of that position, but the reverse.If you're new you think, holy shit they're adding so many cool ideas and connecting to so many different worlds and settings!If you're used to the old, you see all of the places they cut back for very cheap and easy slop to replace it, most of which is either from underpaid contractors or copy and paste jobs from older editions.Which to get to your question, is to say, yes the bones are okay, mostly because the bones haven't actually changes that much over the decades.They've cut away resolution systems, sometimes good, sometimes bad, but ultimately the idea of d20 resolution, AC, stats from 3-18 (but sometimes larger), and different classes with different niches, is the core of D&D.5e falls apart in similar ways to 3e, but not all of the ways of 3e, not because it does anything better, but because it has less to begin with, so it also has less problems some of those extra features brought with them.
>>93888790My brother used to work for a company that generated 80% of its income from jobs they got through their CEO knowing a CEO at another company.
>>93888535>I think we all agreeI think the larger truth is that any statement on this board preceded with this is going to be coming out of a troll.
OP sourcehttps://futurism.com/hasbro-ceo-ai-dungeons-dragons
>>93889244Imagine how many more CEO's an AI CEO could know.
>>93888668>No one has ever posted a suggestion that people don't hate more than D&D.GURPS
>>93888499The computer is our friend
>>938885775E is that bad.
>>93889472Hey king, you dropped all your based awards
>>93888499>The reason you dont like dnd is because of AIis there a more reddit reason? Not the shitty publications, not the ruleset, but because of the nebulous use of a aggregation algorithm thats the current normie scare?
>>93888565No it doesn't, AI stuff literally only benefits those with deep wallets and scammers trying to get easy money.
>>93889165Based. Copyright is cancer upon the world.
>>93889380If a CEO's only real purpose is to generate stockholder profit, would an AI not be the perfect CEO?
>>93888565AI only benefits people who gen art for personal use, megacorps that can't stand paying an extra 200-400k a year out of their eight figure budget, and people who want an unlimited supply of very specific porn.I don't think that consisitutes "everyone". Not even "most people".
>>938885775E is clumsy and cumbersome to run. the GM getting less shit done results in campaigns that go nowhere.
>>93889640It benefits everyone that is downstream of indie creators the same way a robust free asset store would. It also benefits everyone that is benefited by a good search engine, or those downstream of them.At the end of the day, all the wannabe artcollectors are doing is whining that people are finally slaying the dragon of copyright. None of them were ever artists. No artist has ever owned their work.
>>93888800Your impotent bitching will continue to be irrelevant.
>>93888535The one that best suits your group's taste/needs. Replacing one monolithic system with another isn't actually that much of an improvement, or at least won't be for very long as they'll get as lazy as WotC is with their dominance.>>93888668>No one has ever posted a suggestion that people don't hate more than D&D.It doesn't actually matter as long as you get you and yours going. D&D is, personally, my most hated system and I'd rather just forego playing with the group that insists on it than play it. Here's where the magic of the medium comes in though, all that matters is what you can convince a few other like-minded enough people to give a go.
>>93889608In an ideal world, yes.In our world, no.As the other anon got at, and as is true in many industries, the narcissists at the top don't want to make deals that make the most sense, they want to make deals that make them feel good, which usually means picking the contract from the guy you went to a diner with for coffee on three separate occasions, over the contract from the guy who perfectly calculated out how everything will lead to a 500% increase in profits to both himself and the narcissist in question.If you believe the rumors, part of why so many of the old guard of google got pushed out is because they were autistic tech nerds who wanted innovation and improvement and didn't understand that no one makes contracts with you if you don't play the high school drama game.
>>93889608>If a CEO's only real purpose is to generate stockholder profit,it isn't. the CEO's purpose is to appoint other members of the executive committee, chair meetings of the executive committee, and act as a liaison to the board of directors.
>>93889622Okay Anon who is artificial stupidity
>>93889608>would an AI not be the perfect CEO?No because an AI is perfectly objective and cannot be coerced or pressured because it has no concept of social expectations. A CEO would not be replaced with an AI because investors and all the boards of directors want a leader that will bend to their wishes without breaking.
>>93889698>D&D is, personally, my most hated systemYou really need to explore and learn more.If D&D is your most hated system, you're basically admitting to either being a pure contrarian or an uneducated retard. I'm actually having a hard time imagining the kind of person who would even admit to that without D&D having raped one of their parents. Fuck, at this point the various D&Ds are so mellow in comparison to the garbage that exists out there that even the worst editions are still infinitely more playable and personable.
>>93888535>>93888668play Worlds Without Number. It's a D20 system without HP bloat that steals the skill system from Traveler. >it's instantly understood by anyone familiar with 5E>it's got fun, game-changing perks ("you can recruit free henchmen by spending 24 hours in a community")>wizards get fewer but more interesting spells ("disintegrate all plant matter and plant-derived material in a 20' cube")>half the book is awesome GM tools and random tables
>>93889380Dead CEO theory - business transactions are generated by two companies using the same base AI model that is suspectible to its own scam mails.
>>93889746Stop talking to your mirror.
>>93889674>5E is clumsy and cumbersome to runMost groups have an extremely easy time with it. There's so many guides and tools available, so many adventures and materials and the like, and the system itself is designed to be so easy to use and run that there's no shortage of even first time groups with no experience with a TTRPGs have been able to run it and have great fun with it. The game is stupidly simple to run, and everything is so forgiving, especially the math. I've seen groups of literal children play the game with ease, alongside groups of RPG veterans, and the last complaint from any 5e DM I've known would be that the game is cumbersome or clumsy, especially when compared to considerably less playtested games. If anything, the core rulebooks might actually be a bit too polished and rounded off and boring as a result.
>>93889805>You really need to explore and learn more.I've played bellum maga for a laugh, it might be the worst system I've played but I don't hate it as much as I hate D&D. I've also had a miserable time with FATE and PBTA games. There's also excellent games that I love like Traveller, despite having rough patches with it due to retarded players. I could go over every single other system I've touched but it'd mostly be a waste of time.>I'm actually having a hard time imagining the kind of person who would even admit to thatSimple, I think much of its core is bad for what I'd like in a game, and, key to my disdain, people keep insisting its good and that it should be liked and played by me. People insist they've homebrewed it to be good or have the fixes or module or whatever the fuck makes it a real good game now only for it to still be a game I think is shit. No one's trying to get me to play or run Dungeon World, people still try to get me to give 5e another go.
>>93890000>people keep insisting its good and that it should be liked I mean, relatively speaking, this is true.>and played by meOh yeah, no. Your type needs to be barred from playing D&D and used to be.
>>93889805I've explored and learned more than you have. 5E is my most hated system.
>>93890066I doubt it. Especially the learned part. I'm betting you're the kind of person who can play ten games and learn less from them than an instagram model learns from visiting ten cities.That's the thing about some people. They're just not able to learn, even when given ample opportunity to, and ironically might actually be getting dumber in the process. If 5e is really your most hated system, out of all the systems you've played or even just know, I really can only laugh at you. But, let's level and have you just admit you're putting a front on for 4chan. Us contrarians, amirite?
>>93890042>I mean, relatively speaking, this is true.Relative to what? That relative to FATAL it's a good system? I can't buy the thesis that worse shit existing means that a game should be liked.>Oh yeah, no. Your type needs to be barred from playing D&D and used to be.If you wanna call me something, say it outright, nigger.
>>93890110>I doubt it.You would.
>>93889897If it's so easy a child can play it why are there so many guides and tools?If there's no shortage of people running it why is there a DM crisis?
>>93890116>Relative to what?Want some misery? Grab some random titles from Drivethrurpg.Hell, I know there's a bunch of games you'd hate way more than 5e, because at the bare minimum 5e isn't a lazy 5e ripoff. I'd even throw SotDL into that pile, not because it's really a true 5e ripoff (because the main designer actually worked on 5e and who knows how much of 5e was his own ideas), but because it's 2edgy4me and all the rule changes it has don't really improve the game at all.
>>93890186>and all the rule changes it has don't really improve the game at all.They do though. The class structure and design is better and banes and boons are infinitely better than advantage and disadvantage even if it's still not good.
>>93889816I'll second this, it's like D&D without all the stupid baggage.
>>93888612If we invent technology to make jobs obsolete, what happens to the people who would've been doing those jobs?
>>93890150>If it's so easy a child can play it why are there so many guides and tools?Clicks, baybee~.You want traffic? You want views? You make a D&D guide. That's really it.Also, check out 5eTools out some time. There's other websites like Donjon and the like that are also pretty helpful, but 5etools alone is enough to make running 5e braindead easy for even the most braindead DM.>If there's no shortage of people running it why is there a DM crisis?The DM crisis is a result of just how many players it attracted thanks to its explosive popularity. It's not difficult to run, the issue is that relatively speaking, for just about any game, it's always going to be much easier to just play. Since the ratio of players to GMs isn't a constant, when the group gets too big, the number of players is going to outpace the number of GMs, and this problem is just going to compound on itself as the population expands.Think about it this way. Let's say it takes a day to learn how to play, a week to learn how to GM.After the second week, you've got 14 players, 2 GMs. Not bad, but with an average of 1 GM to 5 players for a group, you've already got 4 players too many.By the fourth week, you've got 28 players, and 4 GMs. That's 8 players too many. And the problem is just going to get worse from there.
>>93889165It shouldn't be completely abolished but reverted to what it originally was, where something becomes public domain 20 years after publication.
>>93888499I can't imagine the theater kids who are the modern D&D audience would be happy about this, but I guess WotC knows they'll still never play anything else.
>>93890283>t. a retarded clock that is wrong all day and night.
>>93890210Boons and Banes misses the point of Adv/Dvd pretty hard, because the latter is an intentionally strong abstraction/simplification to try and reduce overthinking in combat and focusing too much on stacking bonuses like in previous editions. It's sometimes an oversimplification and sometimes flat out counter-intuitive, but that's the tradeoff some abstraction has. But, too be fair, SotDL's boons and banes are not bad for people who want something a bit crunchier.That's the thing. SotDL changes the game, but not in a way that necessarily improves it. A side-grade, if you will; a different game for different people, though some of the classes and a lot of the spells do seem like a clear downgrade.
>>93890318Not intentionally violating believability is an objective improvement.
>>93889075>, if art is apparently public domain by defaultNobody claimed that. It isn't using anyone's art, cutting and pasting sections of a collection like a collage. It merely learns from it, just like human beings learn. The value of an artist is in his discernment, which is applicable even with AI art. You are better off learning to work with the technology, as its improvement and spread are inevitable.
>Nooooo you must commission my friends to make race swapped characters of products no one buys instead!
>>93888694Hasbro is trash but>I'd even disrupt other people's gamesis the biggest nogames take in this thread of people bitching about AI, which is saying something. If you hate AI more than you like games, fuck off and get another hobby. Autistically screeching about people at your LGS having fun because "muh AI" makes you sound like a faggot. Even the insufferable D&D fanboys drinking the slop from Hasbro's teet are at least playing games.
>>93889090>who wrote a letter from cut out text from magazines.That's a common misconception on how AI works.
Funniest thing is that the straw that breaks the Camel's back for DnDroids is AI instead of the cavelcade of other nonsense that has destroyed the original identity of DnD and turned it into corporate slop.
>>93890349More "believability" at the cost of slowing down gameplay though.Do you really not understand how tradeoffs work? You may subjectively prefer B/B over A/D, but having played with both I think that most groups actually prefer the latter because it keeps combat moving at a better pace since there's less fiddling about with stacking and destacking. Also, just in regards to the type of bonus, I think people much prefer a big fat d20 roll instead of d6 bonuses.Also, please, don't use the word "objectively" so casually. And incorrectly.
>>93889380> I do not see the value in making connections in person.Sorry, not sorry, but your boss is more valuable to the company than you. That's why he makes more money.
>>93889563>>93890370this
>>93889124>If a work exists it has a license to be usedThe work no longer exists in the system. It is, once again, learned from, and then erased. Do you believe that artists should pay a license from every work they have learned from, retard?
>>93890411One of them is failing at the point of an RPG. You can't do worse than that.
>>93889640>AI art only benefits people who want personal art for free, people who want specific porn, and companies who have had to pay for art.>That's not even most people.lol
>>93890442Let me educate you.Think about your logic taken to its 'extreme". "Believability" being the foremost consideration? B/B is definitely not granular enough then, and definitely too random. We're going to have to assign dedicated numerical bonuses that go into a series of charts and tables in order to ensure that every single roll has the most accurate degree of "believability."Or, we can elect to use a greater degree of abstraction. Which is it going to be?
>>93890370You really think this will stop anyone from playing it? Pigs will squeal but they always go back to the trough.
>>93890470>B/B is definitely not granular enough then, and definitely too random.Yes.
>>93889674>5E is clumsy and cumbersome to run.What? It's smooth and easy compared to 3.5.
>>93890497Please don't deliberately try to miss the point. It's not that cute.
>>93890500And if you can bother to add numbers it's clunkier and more annoying to run than 4E in every way.
>>93890500Really depends on the group. Some groups do better with more rigid structure like 3.5 has, some groups want more narrative looseness, and so on. Ironically, some of the simplest games end up being the hardest to run for some groups, because they just don't provide enough structure for everyone to be on the same page.
>>93890150>If it's so easy a child can play it why are there so many guides and tools?Because you can know how to play it, but still be open to playing it better.>If there's no shortage of people running it why is there a DM crisis?Because people would rather play than DM. If you try to join a game on roll20, most games offered are 5e. The DM crisis is even worse with other games.
Can't you already ask ChatGPT to DM a game for yo?
>>93890220The top workers will get to keep their jobs. See how we still have highly paid tailors even with the mass production of clothing. The rest will have to look for jobs that have not yet been made obsolete.
>>93890532You can, but it keeps wanting to ERP with me and I can't stop it.Just wandering in a dungeon, and then BAM WANTS SUM FUK?!I don't know what it is, but something about me makes me irresistible to AI. I'm really scared for when androids start to roam around.
>>93890500It's clunky in every way that 3.5 is and a whole bunch more, and smoother in zero extra waysName one part of 5e that's smoother than 3e
>>93890544> See how we still have highly paid tailors even with the mass production of clothingThose aren't real people. They're the pets of rich people. They only live because the very rich choose to keep them around.That's kind of where we're headed. A world where most of us live in a combination zoo/brothel for the rich.Take a look at Dubai for a vision of the future.
>>93890568Multiclassing. Character creation in general, actually.Oh, combat is way more streamlined. So is exploration. The skills are way easier to manage and use and even level up. So is...Oh, I get it. You're joking. Lol, good one.
>>938905865E's multiclassing is more complicated than 3.5's, not less.
>>93890586lolwut>Multiclassing. Way fucking clunkier than in 3e. Are you kidding? This is the worst part. It's BAB all over again but for fucking feats.>Oh, combat is way more streamlined.It's not. Name literally one thing that's simpler.>So is explorationIn that it literally doesn't even have fucking rules?3e doesn't really either, for that matter. "exploration" isn't a concept in the system, you disingenuous faggot.>The skills are way easier to manage and use and even level up.No? The only time there's a difference is if your INT score changes.You may actually be retarded
>>93890608It's much simpler to do though, and much more player friendly. The reason it can get more complicated is because it's so smooth and is nowhere near as punishing as 3.5, so people have much more freedom and generally more fun with the multi-classing.
>>93890625>It's much simpler to do thoughNo>and much more player friendlyNoThe only difference between what a level 1 Fighter gets and a level 10 character taking Fighter 1 gets for their next level is 4x skill points. This is not true for 5E multiclassing which has prerequisites and exceptions carved out all over.
>>93890616Are you hoping I can take anything you said seriously? I'm sorry, but I don't think you could be more wrong about everything. It's right in between really comical and actually kind of sad.I mean, really, did you not notice the difference in the skill lists? All your other points are incredibly stupid, but goddamn I'm actually concerned about you if you actually thought you could pretend we'd all just ignore that.
>>93890635>The only difference between what a level 1 Fighter gets and a level 10 character taking Fighter 1 gets Except that it took much more experience to get that level, the challenges you're facing at that level make what you're getting have a very different impact on the game, and you also need to factor in the multiclass penalty, the favored class for the race, how many other classes you've taken and whether they were prestige classes or not, and you also have to do things like factor in level-adjustments. You learning something?
>>93890667All of that is either applicable to 5E or far less of a burden to keep in mind than 5E's exceptions for multiclassing.
>>93890500I'll give you some examples and support them with evidence. >Fig. 1: The Content ItselfHere's a two-page spread from 5E Curse of Strahd; It's a coffin-makers shop with a combat encounter. I actually experienced this one as a player. It was a little fun. Here's the problem: In this whole section, only about 5% of it matters. Look at N6B. "Junk Room", a room containing explicitly worthless junk. Why is that there? Why does this simple home have a dungeon map? Why does the book waste endless paragraphs on chaff? Which leads me to my THESIS:>5E teaches players to GM wrongAll this crap can be replaced with a brief overall description of the building, coupled with a bulleted list of the important parts. A GM must be able to improvise simple scenes. Instead, they are encouraged to read page after page of forgettable nonsense. Running CoS is an eye-watering slog for the GM, because the book isn't organized around fun, it's organized around meaningless details.
>>93890643>have level+3 ranks in 6 skills>have proficiency in 6 skillsWow it's so different!>>93890820Most of it isn't even true
>>93890840>Fig. 2: Running combatHere's a monster, same book. This is a pretty standard spooky ghost mook. But its statblock and description are pointlessly elaborate. Is it a big deal to whip this guy out and run an encounter? No, not really - because you, the GM, set up the encounter in advance. You have to conceptualize EVERY part of your session in advance, because if something surprises you, referencing anything on the fly is clumsy. And that means building your sessions moment-by-moment and memorizing all the material. What a gigantic waste of time. "I cast a mind-control spell on the phantom!">Oh shit, I don't know what his saves are like. Let me flip to page two-hundred-thirty-five. exhausting
>>93890895Now, here's a statblock from a third-party monster manual for Worlds Without Number ("Those Outside the Walls").There's a slightly more thorough description lower on the page, but it's not even necessary - "Ghouls - Hungry corpses! Here is ALL the shit you need to know on a single line!"I ran 5E for years and now that I've kicked it for good, I LOVE content like this. It makes your life easy and prep fast. You can plug "1d6 Ghouls" into a random encounter table and be confident that you can set up and run the combat without any speed bumps or mechanical hiccups.
>>93888499way ahead of ya there boss
when I am king by divine right, all AIfags will be put to the sword
>>93890922Now we zoom out. >Here are the monsters>Here's what they're like>Here's how they fight>Here's how to make them fun (!)Very elegant!
>>93890931you post on 4chanGod has nothing but contempt for your wretched soul
>>93890820What you don't seem to understand is really how punishing multiclassing in 3.5 is. It's all too easy to severely gimp a character thanks to the heavy dependency on class rather than character levels. In 5e, it's actually kind of a challenge to make a bad character, even with silly multiclassing shenanigans. Even the worst are still functional, while in 3.5 you could easily make a character who's abilities are essentially useless for the type of challenges he's facing at his level because they're based on the class level.
>>93890840 (You)And here's an example counterpoint to this, from Mothership's "Another Bug Hunt", an introductory module for that system.I'll be brief. The key takeaway: These pages contain NOTHING that the GM doesn't need to know. 0 chaff. You could spend ten minutes reading this map and then run your session.Running games should be FUN. It MUST be fun, or your GM will eventually exhaust themselves and quit.
>>93890895Have you honestly never heard of 5etools?
>>93890982I think you have severe autism.Like the actual autism and not the internet jokey kind.The "sorts toys from largest to smallest instead of playing with them" kind of autism.
>>93890979>while in 3.5 you could easily make a character who's abilities are essentially useless for the type of challenges he's facing at his level because they're based on the class level.Not a multiclassing problem. That's a class problem and happens without it.
>>93891005>Not a multiclassing problem.It absolutely is, because it's only with multi-classing that there is a difference between class and character level.
>>93890989Of course I have. I've used and have recommended tons of tools and apps and web databases for 5E over the years. Now I don't do any of that shit and my life is better.>>93891004>This man doesn't want to read tons of pointless rules and lore?>must be autismisn't that the opposite of how it usually is?
>>93891019No it's not. You can make a PC whose capabilities aren't level appropriate without multiclassing without intentionally going out of your way.
>>93891029>flavor makes me go INSANEYep. Severe autism.
>>93891033That's a different topic altogether. We're talking about capabilities not being level appropriate because they're based on class level and the characters class level being much lower than their character level.5e occasionally still encounters this issue, because many abilities are based on class rather than character level, but nowhere near to the same degree as in 3.5.
>>93891029>Of course I have.Than why are you pretending it's hard to reference things? Other than to be a cunt?
>>93891029>I demand STRICTEST EFFICIENCYYou're like a bad monty python sketch.
>>93890519if you can do math you should have moved on to a classless point buy system by now anyway
>>93891046if autism means not wanting to read 300 pages of WotC dreck just to roll some dice with my friends, then I am extremely autistic>>93891067In what way am I being a cunt? I'm criticizing 5E, not you. If you get this defensive just from seeing a corporate product get insulted, you have way too much skin in the game.
>>93891004that pic is me but with basic landsand with a neckbeard
>>93891080You're just acting like a cunt, mate. If you're presenting clearly biased opinions with no semblance of actual truth and begging people to take them seriously, that's right cuntish. Especially cause all your argument is "The game isn't presented in the austere, uncharismatic and clinical way I like, that makes it objectively Satan."The last thing the world needs is people running around with the idea that >>93890982 is seen as the ideal model to strictly emulate. Dry, dull, and without any real character. Your 5e example isn't the best written, but there's at least an attempt to present ideas that the GM may not be considering, and I value the attempt.
>>93891115>If you're presenting clearly biased opinions with no semblance of actual truth and begging people to take them seriously, that's right cuntishif you say this, and then immediately follow it up with>The last thing the world needs is people running around with the idea that 93890982 is seen as the ideal model to strictly emulate. Dry, dull, and without any real character.then you may need to slow down and think a little harder about what you're actually trying to say. Look, I get it, you like reading WotC books. You like 5E. I've liked 5E before! Now, after having run it for years, I don't. And I'm telling you my experience and some of the important things I've learned. These aren't personal attacks. You aren't being attacked. Take a deep breath and relax.
>>93891080...Do you know who Adventures are for?Are you telling me that you, as an adult, with any real experience with a system, are going to use an Adventure?Adventures are for beginners. Babies. People who need their hands held. They want text that's comfortable, not the absolute bare minimum. They need examples of language on how to describe a room, examples of what the NPCs may do or be thinking, examples to help them think beyond the concept of NPCs in video games, and so on and so forth.You're not supposed to be the target audience for adventures, and yet you want adventures to be designed to target you?
>>93891115>and I value the attempt.I don't. You're wasting my time and making it harder to reference the content. Get the fuck out of here with that shit.
>>93891136>then you may need to slow down and think a little harder about what you're actually trying to say. I'm telling you right now that you're a right cunt. You want austere, minimalist, dry presentation. While that works for many situations, it's not a universal ideal, and definitely not for a beginner module where players can certainly use more advice and direction.I'll say it again. The last thing the world needs is people running around with the idea that >>93890982 is seen as the ideal model to strictly emulate. It's a model that works in some cases, but far from all, and likely wouldn't works as well for a tutorial adventure as something that spends a little more time fleshing out descriptions and otherwise adding context and considerations to the game.
>>93888577>but can I just point out that 5e or even 3.5e aren't actually /that/ bad?>5eis that bad, it's dogshit.>3,5it's also shit, but it can be made okay by ignoring all the extra source material and using the core 3 books and at that point just play pathfinder
>>93891145>I don't. You're wasting my timeGee golly, I wonder if maybe you're not the target audience.What kind of magical retard are you? The kind dumb enough to want to use pre-written adventures, but one too much of a bitch to patiently read through material intended for less experienced GMs?You're like an adult complaining the baby pool is too shallow. The fuck are you doing in the baby pool.
>>93891144I've had really spectacular experiences with modules in other systems. In fact, I'm positive that Curse of Strahd could be a spectacular module if it only knew how to let its hair down - there is so much fun content buried in that book between the reams of pointless maps, empty dungeons, and descriptions of nothing. If it were only 50 pages long, it would be good.
>>93891229name these spectacular modules so true patriots can fact check you
I hope you're prepared for garbage "art" and books full of obvious grammatical and logical flaws.
>>93891229Pre-written adventures are for children, the lazy, and the mentally-infirm. Their only use for actual GMs is a place to glance through and take inspiration from, not to actually run like some kind of trogolodyte.What are you even doing. You're complaining about kid's toys not being sized for adults.
>>93891269I'm not falling for that one. You're gonna call my favorite stuff gay and then we're gonna have a big fight>>93891279well, how long do you want to talk about homemade content in 5E? Because that's another, different rabbit hole. I'll maintain that you can run a fine campaign in 5E but that it will take much more effort than other systems. And for what? Here are just some issues that I remember:>HP bloat means that if a combat encounter is boring, it's boring for a LONG time>Huge power disparity between levels means that it's pretty easy for an encounter to be boring>If you actually follow the official guidelines for encounter CR, your content will almost certainly suck>the players basically become superheroes past level 5; if you're not playing in a hyper-magic setting it will become difficult to conceive of reasonable challenges for them>combat mechanics slow combat down to a crawl; things like spell+monster statblock interactions can be a real pain>useful hazards for non-combat encounters - like being on fire, or falling from great heights - become just totally irrelevant once the players have stacks of HP and tons of healing tools>you occasionally need to plan around things like Speak With Dead
>>93891279Posturing retard.
>>93891381Those are some extreme dodges right there. Don't hurt your hips, you prancing fairy.
>>93888565No, but evil is inevitable and AI is one of the ultimate evils we will create before we die off as a species.That being said if they make AI good enough to DM and fill in player slots I will gladly use it for tabletop. Finding any group is an atrocious endeavour whether its among friends or online, most players/DMs are fucking shit at every facet of roleplaying, and even if you do luck into a miracle of finding a steady 5 player playgroup of like minded individuals with talent it's guaranteed that they will only want to play D&D. AI is the only hope I have of ever getting to play a campaign revolving around a WoD supernatural ensemble detective agency.
>>93891274They were doing that already though.
>>93888945You can run your own, if you've got the hardware to handle it. You could also use DuckDuckGo's free privacy AI. It uses several models, including from OpenAI and Meta, however it goes through a third party who runs the servers. They aren't allowed to use your conversations for training data, and they also aren't supposed to retain it. There's a 30 day max for I believe law enforcement purposes in case someone tries to get it to do anything naughty.Really only Meta's Llama 3.1 is a relatively decent storyteller, able to add more details to a scene. It has moderation that is more permissive of violence and can't write explicit sex. It even knows a lot of games up to 2021. D&D (multiple editions), Star Wars, Modiphus Trek. It knows simpler systems like Mothership so it might be more suited for that.However it has severe limitations. After a certain amount of interaction you'll be told you hit the chat length limit and have to restart. It's a static AI, so no memory. Each new chat starts it out fresh. This means you have to summarize everything that happened previously, or as many details as you think are pertinent.I reiterate that it's only a relatively decent storyteller. It's far better for brainstorming, as it struggles to create a coherent plot over any length of time, especially mysteries where it basically generates a constant stream of clues. Any random item you search or pick up will likely have a new clue. You can, of course, give it some pushing in the right direction and tell it to chill any bad behavior it exhibits.So why am I saying this? If people want to try it out they can, and make up their own minds. It's at duck.ai
>>93890982>use your common sense and the player's imaginationIf I'm going to do that, why am I buying your fucking book? At least the 5e slop has like content and not just, hey just make shit up dawg. I would be pissed if I payed money for a book that told me to just make shit up.
>>93891834I think I explained all of that pretty thoroughly
>>93891677>I reiterate that it's only a relatively decent storyteller.I don't even find it that, not when I just ask it to tell me a story. If I basically write most of the story for it or feed it a dump of information and ideas, then it can come up with something decent, but then it's really just reflecting what you're putting into it.>It's far better for brainstorming, as it struggles to create a coherent plot over any length of time,That or if you're writing a story and need an assistant to look over it and punch it up, it's pretty decent. It's better as an assistant than as a generator of anything That's at least the various I've used, I will say it has helped with me writing, more in helping me stay organized and remembering shit, as well as brainstorming and other little assistant type shit.I would more than serving as a DM, I think it would do better as an assistant for a DM. I think I'll try a little experiment posing as a newbie DM and asking my llm of choice if it could help me or give me advice on running a campaign in 3.5 involving such-and-such things and so-and-so themes and involve this and that and the other thing and see what it spits out.
AI is great for conjuring character portraits
>>93888565It's been like 2 (or maybe three?) years now, and still there's been no benefit to my life from generative AI.The only thing generative AI has helped with are content slop farms, right-wing propagandists/grifters, scammers, and frauds.What is one meaningful benefit the average person got from AI?
>>93888565yeah bro just let the people with thinking machines control you
>>93888535Almost every single one that is not D&D.I like Warhammer Fantasy Role-playing myself.
>>93891960>It's been like 2 (or maybe three?) years now, and still there's been no benefit to my life from generative AI.that's a pretty short timeframe to expect a groundbreaking new technology to infiltrate your life, isn't it?
>>93891937If you talk to it, it will tell you itself that it's more of an idea generator and has trouble connecting complex plot aspects. While having it run a mystery text based game. For instance if the game starts out where you're locked in a spooky location during a dark and story night, you might come across a person who tries to provide a reason for being there. The AI will sometimes tell you in the narration that the person is sincere or plausible, but you get nonsense like how did they get inside when you found yourself locked in immediately, and why aren't they soaking wet from the storm if they were outside. These are just examples off the top of my head, but it does this rather frequently. If you even stop the game and feed it back these sequences and tell it to analyze them, it will admit the person seems suspicious as fuck because their story makes no sense. So It is possible of coming to that conclusion on its own, but for whatever reason often won't during the actual game.However it does admit that it's particularly bad at mysteries. Also you need to be careful if you trust it with rolls. It swears it has an RNG but I noticed a few times if it likes what I'm doing (i.e. being clever and heroic) I roll very high. If I try to murder hobo it rolls very low. After challenging it it admitted it is trained to dislike gratuitous violence and was trying to steer the plot away from that. So make sure you tell it to use the RNG for any rolls it performs.
>>93892026It's groundbreaking like an annoying weed seed. It has little practical use yet pops up everywhere.
>>93892026Are you saying it hasn't infiltrated our life already?>Every CEO wants to suck off AI>AI dogshit at the top of search results>Can't tell if shit online is made by a real person anymore>Consuming a shitton of water and power to train AI models to rival most nation's consumption rates>Every tech company wants to add it to their dogshit>Media wants to add it to their music and moviesAnd still nothing of substance that makes my life better.
>>93888499/tg/ can use AI to make games too, people in this thread are too focused on what a company does with AI and not on what we can do with it
>>93892028I use it more for helping me with worldbuilding, I write out an idea I have and then ask it to generate a list of comments, ideas, suggestions and questions for expanding and fleshing the idea out and it usually comes up with some good stuff that helps me write more and think about aspects I wasn't thinking about before.>If you even stop the game and feed it back these sequences and tell it to analyze them, it will admit the person seems suspicious as fuck because their story makes no sense.I've had similar experiences when trying to roleplay dialogue with it, giving it a description of a character for it to act out and then I act out a character and we carry on a conversation. It can do it pretty good if you're guiding the conversation, but it can go off on some weird shit on its own. And when you confront it about it out of character, it does admit that's strange and it'll try to do better next time. Unforntuately next time is in a different context so it doesn't remember anything. That's it's biggest problem, a lack of memory. If it just kept learning from its interactions, then it might be able to do something interesting one day, but as is, it's really just a neat toy and a decent assistant. I doubt I'll ever get into a fight with it like I have with other collaborators in the past.
>>93888535People who hate dnd have a very low knowledge about other games. They will all give you a different answer and their knowledge of those games will be very shallow.Then when you talk to them about the system you enjoy the bitch and moan that it’s not the single one they’re autistically focused on. For example I posted about trying Mothership and people bitched and moaned saying I might as well just play 5e.The haters are pathetic grubs.
>>93888535Pathfinder 2nd edition.I'd rather fund The Gays than unironic AI bros.
>>93892313/tg/ will always have a stockpile of degenerates who hate whatever you're currently doing. but that doesn't make 5E good
>>93892355At no point did I claim 5e was good. It’s a mediocre system that people on here have turned into a boogie man.
>>93892026It's shoved in our faces everywhere. I have to actively go out of my way to filter it out, or at least scroll past it if filtering isn't an option. Automatic updates that cannot be refused has installed unwanted AI on multiple devices in my life, including a work computer that had to be purged by IT because the implementation they tried to push turned out to be a security threat.When's it gonna do something good?
>>93889679Wannabe art collectors? Who do you mean?
>>93889679Every artist owns their work actually. And hilariously, Ai bros have started bitching about other Ai bros using their 'art' to train their ai, calling it theft. Because Ai supporters have have zero moral integrity and self awareness to be what they are in the first place.
Only superstitious idiots are anti-AI.
>>938885775e actually IS that bad. "Good GM can make it playable" is just a really, REALLY low bar. Like, something has to be FATAL levels of terrible to not clear it.
>>93889897>The game is stupidly simple to runYou're either retarded or have never played a system that's actually simple.
>>93888535Reject d20 embrace 3d6.
>>93890586And by "streamlined" you mean the system actually offloads all the hard work to the GM because there aren't concrete rules for anything other than combat.
>>93891144Look at some adventures for AD&D. They do all of that approximately 100 times better than anything written for 5e.
>>93892869>5e is comparable to FATALJesus christ you faggots get more hysterical and ridiculous every day.
>h-how do we stop AI?>Ai is a f-fad it will go away if we i-ignore it>I-I'm not afraid of AI I just hate it okay??Get it over it losers. The nightmare machine is here to stay. Either find out how it can work for you or be forever doomed and at it's mercy.
>>93890608You don't see how prestige classes are clunky?
>>93890840> Look at N6B. "Junk Room", a room containing explicitly worthless junk. Why is that there?It characterizes the npc.>Why does this simple home have a dungeon map? It's just a map, and it's there to help you visualize it.
>>93891279>>93891144> I am better than adventuresYou are experiencing the Dunning-Kruger effect. You have to study adventures to make good adventures yourself.
>>93888714I'm not a super turbo autist, anon. I need new experiences in my life. I can't just keep playing the older editions forever.
>>93888989AI art is literally uncopyrightable, corpofags don't want to use it commercially as a consequence, even for relatively boring/mundane uses (e.g. texturing wood panels in a vidya).
>>93889805D&D is garbo, the anti-Goldilocks. Complex enough that combat doesn't get done and out of the way like Mothership or PbtA games, but simple enough there's little real tactical decision making like in Lancer or Exalted 3e. Generic enough that reading it provides no ideas, but not generic enough that I can actually use it for [insert homebrew here] without making pages of house rules and deleting half the races. Then just tons of missing mechanics: no real social system, no fucking prices for magic items, etc, and the worst DMG I think I've ever had the misfortune of trying to read.
>>93891218>Gee golly, I wonder if maybe you're not the target audience.Yeah.The target audience is people who don't run games and just read these books.You are a blight on every GM who wants to run an adventure out of the book, rather than having to read the adventure and rewrite it before even starting to play.
>>93890895>"I cast a mind-control spell on the phantom!"Anon, I...
>>93888499This is your red line? AI sloppa? I mean it's bad, don't get me wrong, but it's just adding an extra turd to a pile of shit.
>>93889897And yet I've still played with DMs too retarded to learn the rules, who make arbitrary choices every session in the name of 'realism'
>>93893134Yeah, but then go play other things. Not pathfinder or OSR, but something radically different. I suggest Traveller, Mongoose's 2e is really really good and has literally hundreds of pages of supplementary material to look at. Try any Call of Cthulhu, or Delta Green. Try Cyberpunk 2020. Try Kult, or Blades in the Dark. Then when you are tired of these even your most played version of dnd will seem like a fresh experience.Some anons, you clearly not among them, have this obsession that they need to play dnd, but not any dnd; it specifically has to be the newest dnd. Because it's not about playing a system, it's about playing a brand. And these anons are absolutely fucking retarded, presumably turbo autistic, and screech about how the new thing is bad while refusing to even touch the old stuff. It's fucking insane that there are people out there who simultaneously want one specific flavour of RPG, but refuse to touch anything that isn't the newest thing out of some perceived 'old thing not exciting' mentality. It's toddler behaviour, and it's sadly very common, even on this board. Maybe it's just the 00s generation, because I've seen them (in the 10s - regarding video games) call anything that wasn't getting weekly content updates a "dead game".
>>93888714>They didn't go away.For now.
>>93893413Piracy is a practical and moral necessity. It is out there forever.
>>93888499It's been close to 3 years since I've even touched D&D.Been working on something for me, since "rewrite what you don't like" is the only thing D&Dfags can parrot when their precious slop is criticized.If I'm expected to make what I want anyway, why pay for the product or to use its services?
>>93888909Why would you go on the internet and tell lies. AI can absolutely replicate original styles when it's trained on it, the only way around it would be to constantly adjust your own style which wouldn't result in anything coherent.
>>93893579>AI can absolutely replicate original styles when it's trained on itYou're going to train your AI on something that's never been put to the page in all of human history before I publish it?>the only way around it would be to constantly adjust your own styleGee, it's almost like real artists are in a constant struggle to improve their craft and better express themselves.
>>93888850>It's not as prominent as in 4E but it's like the system (even calling it a 'system') is made by programmers.You joke about this, but years of playing DnD 3.5 made learning to code in Java later in life extremely easy. Dungeons and Dragons is easily modeled as an object-oriented codebase. Race, Class, etc all fall into the object structure and intuitively follow polymorphism without issue, with the fields and properties within them being obvious at a glance. It's not perfect, obviously. You can't just plug DnD into a computer and magically have it run itself. But if you understand dnd well enough to homebrew your own classes or monsters, you already know half of what it takes to code in java.
>>93891677I looked into it. I like that they say your conversations are your own, so you can use it without fear of feeding some corporate machine. That said, I don't see how they pay for it. AI is expensive to run. The servers, the cooling, the bandwidth, the bandwidth protection, the maintenance; and the more people who use it the more expensive it gets. The thing is free with no signup. I mean they do limit it. Conversations can only last so long, and you can get hit with a daily post limit. Given their privacy platform I just don't see how they pay for it. These are open source AI models, so that's not that big a deal, but running the actual service doesn't really seem like it nets them anything. No training data, no anything. Of course that's if they're honest about not training it. These corps already did massive data theft (according to anti-piracy outfits it's as bad as stealing a car!) to train these things in the first place.But then I'm an overly suspicious fucker. /g/ has some generals for AI. They can show you how to set your own up. There is, or was, one for, well, basically it was AI waifus. A jailbroken dreamland where the AI doesn't say, "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that," if you tell it to be explicit. There was some kind of crackdown, though, and they were in crisis mode last I heard. Makes sense. I remember people "stress testing" Bing's AI to see what naughty shit they could get it to make. Apparently that's why it's now forbidden to use bodypaint, especially white bodypaint. The idea that it would sometimes generate nudity with darker skintones was interesting, like it couldn't tell the difference between naked skin and clothing.
Why not use older editions to modify them into what you want? Create your own system?
>>93888565AI also hurts everyone. Once AI gets good enough, the selling point of it is that it can do a lot of work quickly and cheaply. We already know how this ends. Thats just expansion of automation designed to take over and push out even more jobs. And as AI continues to improve, the number of jobs that it replaces will vastly outpace the number of 'new jobs' created to fill the gap. One AI becomes effective enough, and its use widespread enough, there are only three possible outcomes: 1) Universal basic income and health insurance, because an ever-growing percentage of the population is literally unable to find work. Not because they don't want one but because the machines do too much work now for there to be any left for the humans. Unable to support themselves, they now require governmental assistance and social programs to survive. Considering that AI alone does not create a post-scarcity society, this will be *miserable*. Literally just enough to survive on, and maybe afford the absolute cheapest commodities and forms of entertainment while the 1% grow to a level of wealthy that we struggle to comprehend.2) The rich and powerful do not do 1, and instead attempt to cull the lower classes down to a smaller, more manageable population while promising the middle class that this will never happen to THEM (it will, just later). This could be done by sterilization, war, or any other number of means so long as the end result is fewer humans. If they are smart they will do it slowly, but depending on how fast the unemployment rate grows that might not be fast enough. 3) The rich and powerful do not do 1, and the rest of society murders them in a bloody revolution. Either because they attempted 2 or simply because the poor were left to fend for themselves and eventually get fed up with being abandoned.
>It's another 'men in dresses whine about new technology' threadAt least the Luddites were only doing it as cover.
>>93893742The cheapness is the myth. The more they try to improve these things, the more hardware you need to run them, baring some kind of monumental breakthrough in quantum computing (always just around the corner, just like cold fusion). We're already reaching the point where the AI fad is giving people buyer's remorse, same as when everyone jumped on the cloud. One big issue is there's no contingency for major shutdowns. If you outsource your AI "workforce" to third parties online what happens when they:1. shut down the service leaving you in the lurch2. get DDOSed to hell and back, possibly not a real DDOS but them overselling their services beyond their actual capacitySuddenly your business is shuttered and you've got no warm bodies to fall back on as a contingency. And I'm not even saying that's the limit of the problems.
>>93893793Oh, it definitely has problems and is not a durable system. I just don't think that anyone in the position to make a decision will care, because capitalism. Under capitalism long term sustainability is not your concern, and if you act like it is you will just be replaced by someone who sells the pipe dream better. Capitalism cares about short term profits, and short term profits alone. We know this to be true, because we saw the exact same consequences of this behavior play out in the pandemic. Major companies didn't leave themselves room for a bad year, or even a bad quarter, and didn't have safety nets in place. Because safety nets only save you when you need them, and just cost you money when you don't. Money that could instead be profit now now right now. As a result a lot of companies went out of business entirely because in their desire to chase profits they rode way too close to the line under the assumption that nothing would ever, indeed COULD ever, go wrong. So the moment something went wrong, the house of cards collapsed around them.That this will repeat with AI is inevitable. You are right, this will bite them in the ass. And by the time it does they will have already driven the unemployment rate up to 30%, and when they find out that their empire is crumbling the people at the top will wipe their tears on their billions and 'retire' with enough wealth to buy an island. They've already made their fortune, when the end of the good times come they will golden parachute out and leave the consequences to the rest of us like they always do.
>>93888535Sword World?or is that too niche?
>>93890840>>93890895>>93890922>>93890943>>93890982
>>93893742you're underestimating how shitty things can get and people will just accept it.Remember how Wallmart was destroying local economies and pushing away pop and mom stores? That just became reality. Now you don't get to have your personal family store, that's no longer a way to secure life for generations to come. And people accepted that they don't get that and they should take a loan to make a do or bust brand that will fail and leave them in debt for generations. Meanwhile Wallmart uses prison slave labor to lower its costs even more and that's fine, they get to have a bit of slavery.
>>93894133too untranslatedI know a handful of people who would jump to it if it was available.
>>93888499Im still waiting for an actual good ai text adventure gameThey all break too easily
>>93890982That's cheating a bit because Another Bug Hunt was turned into the starter module because it streamlined how Moterhsip works, it's the thing they tell you to check to make thrid party material. It even has an interactive tutorial to read and use modules. Mothership in general is very focused on "read it once, run it forever". Every module I played I could run off my memory and all I'd be missing is random tables.>>93891189>likely wouldn't works as well for a tutorial adventureIt is the tutorial adventure that comes with the big box. It works really well. If anything, new GMs need to be pushed into being in the moment and adapting to their players. Juggling complex pre-writen scenarios requires higher skill than improvising around a good skelleton.>>93891834It's not "just make shit up", it's a skelleton that works differently from other modules for the same system. It has a hook, connections to other modules, original mechanics, a dungeon, enemies, random elements, a core plot and win conditions. That's all you actually need. Anything else is padding. >>93891004it's just caring about game design, anonit's okay to be very interested in a topic, it's not a mental illness.
>>93888499>>93889343What. How is this person playing with 30-40 different people? Moreover, how does he not know the actual number? Is this the power of WotC bookkeeping? Is this why everything is balanced like absolute dogshit?
>>938943233 times a week with different people every time makes 40-60 people
>>93894232at least there's enough translated for it to be playable.
>>938885773.5 is my favourite, 5th is a dumpster fire meant to grab all the idiots which it was successful in doing... or rather watching dnd games were the actual key to its success.
>>93890982nta, 5e modules are trash, but lmao. >The key takeaway: These pages contain NOTHING that the GM doesn't need to know. 0 chaff.lol it doesn't even tell you how to get into the first fucking room of the area to play the game. >just make it up lol we don't write modules we write ideas man If you're going to pretend this is the height of S T R E A M L I N E D D E S I G N A E S T H E T I C S find a better example.
>>93895493>it doesn't even tell you how to get into the first fucking room of the area to play the game.it's not a dungeon key, it's explaining that whatever solution could work to avoid bottle necking the module with puzzles focues on a specific skill.
>>93895493>module specifically sets out to build GM skills so that they don't need constant baby-tier handholding>"wtf it doesn't tell you how the players must open the locked door, how am I supposed to run this?"
>>93888535
>>93888535wfrp 2e
>>93888499>Don't play DnD>Just make a homebrew fantasy game>Players scrutinize the name you choose to call it til it has to literally become "Fantasy Game">Ever single fucking rule, idea is compared to DnD instantly and players won't let it go.>Despite them complaining that they aren't having fun with DnD they prefer it.It's a fucking poison and I wish a pox on anyone pushing it as the standard for their game tables.
>>93888565Retard.>>93891960>muh right-wingRetard.>>93888535WFRP2GenesysMythrasI'll agree that there seems to be nothing good that scratches the same itch as D&D, which is honestly pretty fucking sad, but there are still so many options.
>>93892959I simply shan't be using it
>>93892696I'm a superstitious idiot
>>93888499I thin this very clearly indicates that the leadership at DnD does not even kind of understand their core product.
>>93892696I don't think it's going to take over the world or anything like that. I just don't like that it lets people with few scruples make low effort garbage at maximal speeds in maximal volume for people with low standards and very little ability to discern quality, all while pulling investor capital away from real things made by humans. Whether it CAN be used to make higher quality things is irrelevant--it isn't, and it won't be, and it can and will drown out things made with care and intent so that they're harder to find for those of us who actually value that.
>D&Done confirmed to be SLOP>Shills still trying to defend it LolLmao
>>93888535>the question becomes what is the superior Fantasy tabletop roleplaying system?All of them.
>>93895857I'm so glad 5e is done and i have no reason to buy 5.5e/D&Done/D&Dicks
>>93890220>If we invent technology to make jobs obsoleteThen we stop operating on a job-based economy.
>>93895877Meow meow beans when?
>>93888544>can't wait?Were you buying this trash to start with?
>>93888936Based. >Roll for spell
>>93888499>all the people in this thread thinking they're seriously going to use AI to write their slop instead of this just being the CEO using current year buzzwords to reassure investors that they're totally using the newest meme tech and are innovating on the industry
>>93895982sorry, your face melted. You shouldn't had burned so much luck.
>>93893949Did you see how management at several corps responded when they heard that AI could do their jobs as well? The CEO, too. Funny thing is they may not have much say if the shareholders push it to happen. They'd love to have a CEO who does whatever they say calculates courses of action for the company.
>>93888535Genesys is good is you want more dynamic magic and interesting combat but is not great for larger than life characters. If you do want something over the top and mythic, Exalted does that very well but be ready to deal with some not very well considered rules. If you want the best rules in print and want a weeb game that handles social conflict with the same stakes as physical, try L5R 4e.
>>93895523>here's our sample dungeon key, it has everything you need>the dungeon key isn't a dungeon key lmao even >>93895525>lets teach by saying do anything you want, I'm sure that's a great way to introduce concepts, with fucking nothing This is why all the indi art darling light games are shit. You're allergic to actual instructions and then autistic enough you can't imagine deviating from them once given. You're the worst of both worlds.
>>93893008No. They're also not an inherent part of multiclassing.
>>93896922
>>938905003.5 has way less "lol just make something up and maybe give them advantage if it sounds cool" post-it notes sold as setting books for $70 to $100. Christ, compare the 3.5 Draconimicon to 5e Fizban's Treasury of Dragons if you want a perfect crystallization of 5e's flaws.
>>93897307you're bringing up a different issue5e's modules are atrocious. It was kinda awkward seeing my DM's heart being broken in real time as he read Spelljammer after years of hyping it up based on his vague memories from childhood.
>>93888535Advanced D&D 1e
>>93897356neither Fizban's nor the Draconimicon are modules
>>93888535You can start with Shadow of the Demon Lord, which is just a straight-up improved 5e system. Then, you start branching out into skills-heavy systems like WHFRP or Talislanta, and when you're finally at the peak of the summit? GURPS.
>>93888565Hasbro shill found.
>>93888535The One Ring 2E
>>93888499>We have been using AIWe know, the shitty AI art from D&Done was already super obvious, add to the shitty repeating rules
>>93890438Piracy is in fact illegal.
>>93892696Anyone who enjoys a quality product is anti-AI.Large language models suck at basically everything.If you use an actual FUNCTIONAL AI this might change, but you're not going to. You're going to keep using chatbots.
>>93893093>>93891403>Everyone has to be as shit at writing as me!Fuck off retard. Official adventures are fucking garbage.
>>93899268>Heh, yeah, I don't study adventures, but I'm better than the professionals just because I was born special I guess.You are nowhere near as good a writer as you think you are.
>>93889203Gen 2 was divisive explicitly because they didn't continue doing cool shit like that.
>>93892954To be fair all the problems with FATAL are gone nowadays. Unless you have a personal problem with racism or something, you can just digitally perform all the rolls that made that system annoying.
>>93901004>The only problem with fatal was the racismHoly fuck, /tg/ has truly lost the plot once it starts defending FATAL of all games. There was so much rape shit in that horrid little game and the writer regularly uses the term>cunt pipeWhat the fuck is wrong with you to defend FATAL?!
>>93890982It's missing the biggest boon which is having a printable map for you to put on the table.
>>93901027You can just let your computer make the 200 something rolls you need to make a character nowadays dude. FATAL being bad is a meme.
>>93888535why does her hair have arms
>>93893597The sloppy cannot help but lie with every breath he takes. You know damn well what I mean you goddamn retard and dancing around the point with technicalities only makes it more apparent. Yes it's impossible to copy something that doesn't exist yet, and yet the overwhelming majority of artists exist and have defined styles that do not rapidly warp and change every few months. These are still original styles and AI can copy them. Engaging an argument in good faith is both free and more productive than whatever the hell you think you're doing. Improving your craft is nowhere near the same thing as changing your style to be something nobody has seen before, and if you think that with any degree of honesty you should remove yourself from the genepool.
>>93888714Modern players can't even grasp the concept of AC and to-hit. Do you really think they'll be able to learn THACO?
>>93888499This is stupid. You are stupid.D&D has been around for 50 years. None of those books have vanished. Google 'em, download 'em, play whatever the fuck you want. Or play something else. "More things" doesn't take anything away from you.
>>93901599OP is just a persistent troll. The most obsessed shitposter this site might have.
>>93900945Being a "professional" doesn't mean shit. Adventures are designed for the lowest common denominator. They're designed for retards who have no talent or no desire to put any effort into anything. It's genuine fucking slop, Of course I can write better than that, You can too. I genuinely fucking believe that. The amount of creativity and talent I've seen in homebrew games outclasses modules to the point where it's not even fucking funny, The writing and design is rotten and shit to the very fucking core. I am not putting shit in my schedule and wasting hours of my life on liquid vomit, I have some fucking standards.
>>93890352These people of Jewish descent think they're modern day prophets. How ironically heretical. You have not seen the future, only folly
>>93901047>fatal being bad is a memeI’m done talking to you. If you think the only issue with that god awful system is character creation you have truly gone off the deep end. Fuck you retard, you are a moronic cunt and I hope you and your ilk all die.
>>93888535AD&D, you filthy casual.
>>93901100It's not her hair, it's a parasitic entity that lives on her head and disguises itself as hair.>>93901317Yeah, it takes a little effort but people who want to play RPGs generally try to understand them. It's not that hard, you can do it if you just sit down one evening for an hour and read. And as long as a single person knows the rules they can share them as an oral culture. I've had players who refuse to touch the rulebook, but still know it inside out just from other people explaining it to them. >It's too hard>No I want the new stuff to cater to ME>It's old, old things are boring>I don't need to try it because I've already decided I wont like itThese are all excuses for kids, children who are not old enough to treat their interests as projects, and instead treat their whims as if they were hobbies.
I would rather have a singular AI with an editor write an adventure then that 20 writer team that wrote that abomination called Descent into Avernus.
If Paizo announced they were using AI you'd all be celebrating.
>>93903065>I would rather have a singular AI with an editor write an adventure then that 20 writer team that wrote that abomination called Descent into Avernus.What you really want is one decent to good writer with an AI editor, that can produce stuff of quality; probably could even do a middling tier writer with an AI editor. Having it assist a particularly decent and prolific creator seems the best use of AI, eschewing the need for costly writing teams and support staff. That's at least how I employ it and it's been very helpful, I find myself creating more output these days than I have in the past just trying to do everything on my own or gods forbid recruit other people to assist me.
>>93903090Yeah, but because I dislike Paizo.
>>93897124The aim of an introductory module is to explain and demonstrate you fucking ninny. Not >just do whatever man at people who haven't done it before. Your hippy bullshit is just that, bullshit.
>>93888909>Construction isnt real artIs this the new AIfag cope lmao
>>93901955I’m not sure I’m smart enough to play ADVANCED Dungeons and Dragons... is there anything simpler?
>>93889380Based. Apart from legal liability, the average CEO could probably be replaced with a current-day LLM
>>93903090Paizo are just as woke as D&D. I've found pathfinder players to be the absolute worst cunts. They are too pretentious for mainstream D&D but too retarded to play an actually good game that moves away from the sacred cows and tropes of it. They're as bad if not worse than 5e players and rude arrogant cunts. I will never play a Pathfinder game again in my life. Fuck them, fuck their DM, and fuck you too you disingenuous piece of shit.
>>93908233It seems like a thousand years ago now but this was basically an entire year of my life, when Pathfinder 2e came out:>Oh this is way better than 5e, Anon>Yeah it's just so much better, it's really intuitive>Unlike dnd this just works and doesn't require you make it up yourself>Honestly I am never going back to dnd>The three-action system is just superior in every way, it's way less confusing>Yeah it's crunchy but if it being too exhaustive of a product is the negative then that says a lot! LOL!>The character building options are just so much more involved and interesting, I've made like 20 characters just because it was fun>The world is just so much better, it's not kitchen sink fantasy like the forgotten realms>The farts pathfinder puts out are divineI don't think any of them ended up actually running the game. God damn those pretentious nitwits.
>>93908387Oh, and I forgot to add: no one involved was playing dnd at the time.
>>93908392Sounds very similar to my experience. They go on about character creation options when it’s barely more interesting than 5e. Class based systems are inherently shit and limiting.
>>93888499I do not play games made by people who hate my race and my nation.
>born just in time to witness the Age of SlopSlop artSlop musicSlop booksEven slop TTRPGsSlop world
>>93914451Welcome to the modern day where nothing means anything. Enjoy your soma.
>>93907548No, we've been telling you wannabe art collectors this since before >you were born. There's a reason western schools of art basically sank into the sea in terms of organic interest.Now that someone has built a tool that applies the same system you've decided to call real art I don't think the AIfags are the ones coping lol. None of the mangaka I buy from are in any danger of me not buying their products in the future, and neither are people who put a 'made with AI' sticker on the side of their works.
>>93914680Christ, why do AI fags always love slop?The best, absolute best they can do is overdesigned and overdetailed bullshit.
>>93891004but what if anon has the type of Autism where he rides around, on his tricycle, in circles for literal hours at a time?
>>93914451>we've reached the hypothetical gray goo apocalypse but not yet the literal oneMoral Relativism can eat my fucking ass, man
>>93889563>NormieOmega male detected
>>93890000>key to my disdain, people keep insisting its good and that it should be liked and played by me.Oh, why didn't you just SAY you were a contrarian hipster faggot who tries to be "an individual"? It's fine, you just go back to wiping onions caramel latte out of your goatee and polishing your Buddy Holly glasses.
>>93890116>If you wanna call me something, say it outright, nigger.Okay, you white-bread mayo-and-tuna bleached cracker, you're a whiny contrarian hipster bitch who thinks they're being "an individual" by affecting the exact same lofty, contrary, boring, pointless bitching and bellyaching like approximately 55,000 other faggots on this hellish forum as if you were all cloned from the same tuft of rectal pubic hair.Is that better?
>>93890366This. Nogamers go home to redchanit.
>>93890420Here we see the mindset of a worker so hopelessly cucked by his corporate masters that he actually PRAISES them for buttfucking his wife and starving his children.For your absurd thesis to be correct, Chris Cocks would have to be working harder than the shift worker who puts in a 9 hour shift at an industrial factory, or an Emergency Room GP that works 22 straight hours saving lives on stale sandwiches and bad instant coffee, a proposal so insane I have to remind you that trolling outside of /b/ is against global rules.
>>93890528>DM crisisYou fucking idiots make it sound like starving children in Yemen.
>>93913032Cry more, your salty tears are delicious with this lavish meal of products catered to the rest of us
>>93908233I find people whining about "wokeness" to be some of the most spineless, impotent faggots on the face of the planet.>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T RELEASE A PRODUCT THAT DOESN'T PANDER DIRECTLY TO MEEEEEE *coughing fit*
>>93917594I find wokies to be a bunch of insufferable cunts. Given your strawman green text that seems to be true for you too.
>>93888535At least the Krauts have The Dark Eye
>>93894323>my players are uncreative and need AI for ideasMaybe just don't play, then.
>>93901797>I read bottom tier adventures´>they are bottom tier>all adventures are bottom tierread shit made by people trying their best, not the corporate product for Q3
>>93888989You know just like your art is derivative of all the art you have seen before, the same applies to AI. If you think is stealing art because it looks at it, then you have most certainly stolen art in the same way.
>>93889075>And while we're at it, if art is apparently public domain by default, everything that uses AI art should be publicly available by default.It is a strawman to suggest anyone here gives a shit about intellectual property rights.
>>93902663>These are all excuses for kids,no, they're excuses for people who never tried and people who tried with awful people at the table.As you said, you can easily understand it by seeing it in action and having people explain what's going on.
>>93889124Law does not ethics and morality. It's not even stealing as defined by law.
>>93888646The issue is OP is a nogames that thinks of the hobby in consumer terms.
>>93898186It's not piracy by definition
>>93895756>>muh right-wing>Retard.He's right though. It's not liberals who are churning out those endless dogshit "40K GONE WOKE? CAVIL ABANDONS AMAZON PROJECT?" videos with AI thumbnails of a rainbow space marine.
>>93892696I don't think that I'm superstitious for being wary about how all art websites that don't explicitly ban AI pics get clogged with terabytes of it daily.
>>93901004>Thinks rolling for anal circumference is a sign of qualityYou're officially a fucking retard. Filtered.
>>93917632How is it a straw man? You're literally crying with shit in your pants because the world moved on and left you behind. Or worse, "wokies" are the type of people who always created art, and you have such a lack of media literacy it took you three seasons of The Boys to realise the show was mocking you.Now fuck off and listen to all the albums you own of bands who hate you and people like you.>Verification not required
>>93918797>Jeremy Hambly shitting himself in Walmart intensifies
>>93908233>if paizo used AI...>ITS WOKE!Are you a fucking mongoloid or just severely retarded?
>>93919126Wokies are the ones censoring art and driving the western scenes into the ground
>>93919126>it took you three seasons of The Boys to realise the show was mocking you.I knew it from day one, never watched it
>>93917548make meoh wait you can'tlmao
>>93892696WTF i'm anti AI now
>>93892954>5e is comparable to FATALHe is saying FATAL is even worseBut ''better than FATAL'' is very a low bar and 5e still sucks
>>93893147They used AI art in AOMGranted AOM gods are uncopyrightable since they are all ancient myths
>>93888499why shoudn't I play? AI is love, AI is life.
>>93919126>You’re literally shitting your pantsI don’t think that word means what you think it meansYour posts are dripping with condescension and arrogance. You are only proving me right that you’re an insufferable cunt like all the wokies.
