humans be like>neutral race>the most evil mf's>even the other evil races if they exist fell that humans are monsterswhy is this soo common? or is this just written mostly by people who hate the human race as a whole and say shit like "we should have went extinct"
>>93897546Meds
>>93897546What? Humans have a moral obligation to eradicate or subjugate lessers.
>>93897588but when that happens to us it's suddenly LE BAD
Has there ever been an opposite Tolkien take?>Humans are the ones disappearing and the other races are the ones becoming more commonplace
>>93897621I am Legend
>>93897604Yes, that's how it works you absolute retard
>>93897546>or is this just written mostly by people who hate the human race as a whole and say shit like "we should have went extinct"Unironically this.
>>93897621There have been a bunch, mostly "humans as great precursor/wizard/giants race" type things
>>93897621i have. i was fiddling with a setting where everyone is a post human or alien. many of the aliens are just bioweapons/agricultural tools left to their own devices.humanity just peaced out of the galaxy becoming beings of pure energy
>>93897732based same but kinda just everyone just lives together and humans being the first rave on earth....yes
>>93897588https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0WQOGVLLGw
>>93897621Planet of the apes
>>93897546Games?
>>93897588You're first on the list, you natural slave
Conflict over resources with alien species is inevitable.Even if they don't breathe the same gasses as us, don't use the same elements as us for nutrition and don't manufacture their technology from the same basic materials as us - they would still compete with us for the capture of energy produced by stars, in a sufficiently long perspective. If we're both starfaring species, then we both will be aware of that fact and that conflict is inevitable. If conflict is inevitable then the one to prepare and strike first will have an advantage.
>>93897546Homo Sapiens killed all the other humans on our planet, even the ones physically stronger and with bigger brains like Neanderthals. Then became the unquestioned masters of our own world. We are the only creatures in history to bend the environment to suit our needs rather then adapt to our environment.Why shouldn’t our expansion into the stars be and different?
>>93897546I'm going to FUCK that alien right there
>>93897621This is Fragged Empire's whole deal.
>>93898577Alien friends > alien enemieswhen the collective despair of the universe manifests physically to start shit you're going to need the fucking power of friendship to take care of that shit, Genocide autism isn't going to get you far
>>93897546Examples? games?
>>93897546It's usually dumb fucks who don't realize that humans are altruistic to retarded levels compared to everything else known.Do you honestly think tigers would still exist if monkeys knew how to hunt them all down?
>>93897546I cannot think of a single setting where humans are the evil race. At worst they’re portrayed as dangerously ambitious and careless when it comes to stories with environmental themes, but nothing like orcs or demons and shit like Star Trek makes humans be good and noble without having to be giga autists.Also you can’t have humans be THE good race because your readers are humans and know humans and the idea of a human who knows humans reading a story where everyone is good is either going to get bored of a story with less moral depth than a Dr Seuss book or find it weird and unrelatable.
>>93898577Didn't we breed at least one hominid species out of existence?
>>93898577Not really, we mostly interbred. Homo sapiens interbred heavily with neanderthals and denosivans and Homo erectus was so diverse that researchers debate less if it was just one species and more how many species it was and yet they interbred as much as they could.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DSVDcw6iW8
>>93899054Less bred out of existence and more bred with while outcompeting them. Think of it like>Area has 100 neanderthals>100 humans show up>Area can only support 100 hominids>Next generation since humans are more successful you have 70 humans, 25 neanderthals, and 5 mongrels>Next generation you have 75 humans, 15 neanderthals, and 10 mongrels>Next generation you have 70 humans, 20 mongrels, and 10 neanderthals>next generation you have 75 humans, 20 mongrels, and 5 neanderthals>next generation you have 75 humans and 25 mongrelsWithout interbreeding humans would still have outcompeted neandethals, but it still happened and illustrates that neanderthals weren’t viewed as some “other” they were just funny looking people and a hole is a hole.
>>93897546Generally the result of babbling misanthropes. More even-handed depictions of humanity on the galactic stage tend towards "well, we're alright".
I don't like HFY but I also don't like the opposite much either. I think it's because it's redditors complaining about other redditors.
>>93899232HFY assumes aliens are 100% evil and must be destroyed. The inverse is assuming that aliens are 100% friendly and must never be harmed.Good luck getting people to comprehend nuance.
>>93897621Adventure Time.
>>93899316Imagine if first contact is made and both sides autistically freak out and end up avoiding each other out of fear of what the other could do, while simultaneously being covered up by their respective governments.>zarlons? get real, they don't exist>humans are a myth, you should know this by now
>>93899232Obviously a happy middle ground is the best. ALIENS GOOD HUMANS BAD is retarded, HUMANS GOOD ALIENS BAD is retarded, HUMANS AND ALIENS BOTH RUN THE GAMUT is rational.
>>93897546>why is this soo common?is it?
>>93899316Nah, most HFY story involves a fairly reasonable non-Human species playing the put upon straight guy to a given Human's reckless antics.
>>93899316>HFY assumes aliens are 100% evil and must be destroyed.This was never true.Why did Plebbit ruin HFY, and why did 4chang adopt its norms?
>>93897621My current b/x brew lmao. Elves and giants are ascendant, and mankind is gradually dwindling and forgetting its two great strengths, technology and magic.
>>93899061This, people this weird idea that homo sapiens slaughtered the other human species like uncaring, genocidal masters of nature. In reality we just all had sex until eventually becaming one diverse human species.
>>93897546There's always been a certain amount of cope/wank/aspiration in fantasy, so sure, "what if humans but better" is a very old idea that often gets expressed through fantasy and science fiction. But we usually aren't the worst. The bad guys think that anyone who is coming to get them is a monster.
>>93899316unfortunately, nuance gets in the way of tribalism
>aliens are freaked out because humans turned themselves into like forty five different transhuman species
>>93900334Because this place is sadly full of contrarian idiots who learned they had to hate Reddit to fit in, but never learned why they had to hate Reddit. Most of them either weren't around when HFY was popular on /tg/, or simply never paid attention to what was going on.
>>93899316>HFY assumes aliens are 100% evil and must be destroyed.You mean apart from all the ones about humanity throwing itself into the fires of battle to help a homie out against impossible odds because it's the right thing to do?Why must you turn this board into a temple to your lies?
>>93900653I've been here since 2006. I've never been on Reddit and never will and everyone that hates Reddit even half as much as me is surely my friend.
>>93898577>We are the only creatures in history to bend the environment to suit our needs rather than adapt to our environment.Beavers, termites, ants, any creature that burrows to create a nest or hideaway (yeah, so catfish count).Your next line will be "Well bend the environment to suit our needs, and uses tools."
I fully support eradicating aliens through the wombs of their women.
>>93900334>>93900699I remember a time when Cultist-chan was in every other thread, and I know that HFY was always 99% "some conniving arrogant alien race does something bad to humanity, then humanity, via some ambiguous force of malice and numbers, genocides them into ash."This isn't a reddit thing. It's just the reality of what the vast majority of HFY always was.
Humanity first.Fuck the people who side with the bugs in starship troopers and violently smash the heads in of people who support the Navi from Avatar.Humanity first
>I AM SILLY AND REPRESENT THE OPINION THE ARTIST DOESNT LIKE>Im the cool level headed avatar of the artist giving level headed takesEvery time
>>93901442In this case it's accurate, though. People that fantasize about genocide really do act like that. It's not their fault, they're just the 30% of the population with naturally authoritarian slave brains.
>>93900293>trusting GraysBig mistake
>>93897621In Advent Rising, humans are the hyper-advanced progenitor race that were overthrown and confined to a single backwater planet with tech-regressed society until the rest of the galaxy forgot about them and assumed they were myth.
>>93900502It was the theory of a few specific early researchers that stuck. It tends to happen in acadamia where people basically keep chaining works without looking at the underlying cause till it either becomes too stupid to ignore or someone radical comes in and actually checks.
>>93901476>Authoritarian slave brains Did dad give you a bedtime again?
>>93897621A lot of scifi fiction built around robots, Casshern Sins is the first one I can think of. Also humans as we know them are extinct in 40k.
>>93901379What bugged me most was the stupid methods they used to make humans the badass warrior race. The stupidest one I recall was along the lines of>Human is abducted for illegal research>Illegal research is busted>Can't go back to earth because science reasons or whatever>Be chilling in space airport or somethingUp to this point it was kinda neat>Terrorists attack>He solos all of them>Their lasers just give him sunburn (human skin is like regenerating body armour that can resist photons)>He's stronger (humans naturally produce combat drugs ie. adrenaline)>He struck one of them with his brain case (apparently headbutting is literally inconceivable to the entire galaxy)This doesn't make me feel like humans are badass it makes me feel like the rest of the galaxy is stupidly pathetic like that Spongebob bit about the guy with glass bones and paper skin.
>>93901923>No it's not because of servile instincts that I want an autocrat who I can worship like a god to rule over me with no freedom of choiceAll the people who support autocracy where they don't hold power should just go to one single country so they can stop shitting up the rest of the world.
>>93901431>violently smash the heads in of people who support the Navi from AvatarAww, is anon mad that the typical fantasy scenario of underdogs beating the technologically superior invades ended up with his own race as the losers for once?
>>93902165but duuuuuude, don't you know that we, like, breathe oxygen??? that's, like, flammable and stuff!! we're fucking insane duuuuude!
>>93897546Homo sapiens did kill off every other intelligent hominid on planet earth. Neanderthals, those little hobbit guys, all of em. The 'uncanny valley' is like a built in drive to genocide other intelligences.
Imperium and starship trooper fags need to be banned from all genuine sci-fi discussions. There is only so many times one can hear the same three jokes before it becomes grueling.
>>93902279>Homo sapiens did kill off every other intelligent hominid on planet earth. There is no evidence of systematic genocide and plenty of evidence to the contrary in Neanderthal and Denosivan DNA in extant human populations (even if rates are low ranging up to about 3%).>The 'uncanny valley' is like a built in drive to genocide other intelligences.The biological use if any for the uncanny valley is still unknown, as what triggers the response isn't ugly people, people from other "tribes" (black people, asians, reconstructions of neanderthals), deformed people (for example the elephant man), or even ill people (someone with leprosy or scabies may be gross but they don't look uncanny), just something that looks vaguely human but off slightly. Honestly it probably doesn't have an evolved purpose and is just a quirk of biology and nothing more. After all why would evolution need to prep you to tell that pic related isn't a person?
>>93897621There was an isekai manga where that was the core premise, even eating a human's hair was enough to give any of the non-humans that are around a HUGE power boost so the main guy has to hide himself away.
>>93898577There's always a bigger fish. Ever heard of the dark forest theory? The reason we've never had alien contact is because nobody WANTS to make contact because other species are too dangerous, and we're a bunch of retards broadcasting our location which means the second another species finds us we're cooked.
>>93902734Dork forest theory is one of the dumbest things I've ever had the misfortune of being told about and all it's fans literally can't be trusted behind the wheel of a car because they don't understand speed or distance.
>>93897621Canada irl
>>93902734The dark forest theory doesn't even make sense as a concept. Plenty of animals show off and love to be seen, look at peacocks, the chance at breeding is worth more than the increased odds of survival via camouflage. Not to mention the idea that aliens will glass any planet with intelligent life is retarded, it's like a species that actively tries to hunt down any other carnivores in its territory regardless of size, diet, or species, its a high risk an a waste of effort and any species driven to do that would die out, you don't see lions sniffing for and trying to dig up snakes to avoid the off chance that a viper might kill a rodent that the lion probably wouldn't hunt anyway. Lastly it only works if you have perfect information, if aliens attack the first proverbial light they see they are liable not to hit humanity before they reach space but the newest colony of an intergalactic empire with a population in the quintillions. Congratulations your species is conquered in five minutes and are all converted into immortal sapient toilets who scrub assholes with their tongues as vengeance for causing the Culture's equivalent to 9/11.
>>93902798Kek, but a sad kek
>>93902757They've also never been outside of a major city. Have you never been to a forest at night? It's pretty loud and busy, some birds and animals are nocturnal, bugs won't shut the fuck up, it's a far cry from the idea of an entirely still forest where everything is hiding in constant fear, in reality birds are screaming "Lemme smash" while bugs are waving around glow sticks hoping someone wants to get their eggs fertilized.
>>93897588Lesser according to whom?
>>93902949Motherfucker that's just a bad meme
>>93902949Based and golden age of Sci Fi pilled.
>>93902199>autocracy sucks lmao!!!Yes just like every other government system is flawed because it's made by humans>>93897546Go read last and first men it's a sci-fi that just gives the middle finger to every other sci-fi despite being older then all of them
>>93903129Golden age of sci-fi can suck my dick I'm going caveman sci-fi
>>93897546Extremely glow in the dark post.
>>93903245The art also sucks dick
>>93897546>by people who hate the human race as a whole and say shit like "we should have went extinct"Anyone who believes otherwise is a naive optimistic faggot.
>>93902199Dad said its MY turn on the Xbox though
Trusting another spacefaring interstellar civilization that is more advanced than our own is stupid. A civilization that spreads from their home planet does not have benign intentions for the rest of the universe, their only goal would be colonization, and you can be sure a hyper-social and intelligent species such as our own is ripe for it. This isn't a HFY sentiment because the inverse is true.
>>93902949>"You just wanna kill all day "says the coomers who always dont want to have sex with human womenConflict is more intetesting than your FA smut
>>93903294Let me guess, you're probably also a "transhumanist", right? I doubt your grandchildren will even resemble you or your father, you know.
>>93903325>buh buh buh no uthe noose awaits you whenever you work up the courage to chase your belief, anon
>>93903325Why waste your breath, do a flip already antinatalist
>>93903310Nah, it's boring. Same as muh "humans are the real monsters" bullshit when human's are literally facing existential threats to the species yet somehow feeling the need to infight still.
>>93903297Fuck it make the conflict be about humanity slowly finding out that they infact are the only sentient species in the universe and the further they go the more fucked unexplainable shit they find. And I don't mean alien franchise style. Just straight up actual earth cities from.the past depopulated. And planets that are cubes.
>>93903345The plot to your self insert smut is not interesting, Starship Troopers is.
>>93903341Worthless shit-brained "feeders" like you are more deserving of dying than I am. Anyways, since you didn't understand the wit of my post, I'm going to spell it out for you: Humans are already going extinct in favor of turning man into a hackable animal. *Modern* human life is already superfluous.>>93903344I'm misanthropic, not an antinatalist. I do not push the idea that life is intrinsically valueless like antinatalists do, nor do I treat existence as a "mistake". A species that only fosters wide-scale destruction and delusions like humans are a problem for the Earth though, so I don't put much value in most human life as a result. I don't really care if some moron wants to have kids in this day and age otherwise, I'm not going to stop him.
>>93903393Thanks. We also dont value your life at all but because we can sus you out as a genetic threat.
>>93903413>>93903393Now kiss
>>93903413>genetic threatI recall one of the columbine school shooters literally had a dented chest fyi. Maybe you should look at how your modern medical system is allowing so many cretinous children to grow up into adult age before you complain about a lack of eugenics first?
>>93903364Starship troopers has barely any plot, though
>>93903428You just brought up eugenics. And if you're implying that "cretinous children" should not be "allowed" to grow into adults then you are unambiguously pro-eugenic. Which makes you the only pro-eugenic poster here.
>>93903325what inerent value does "humanity" have that makes transiting from it undesirable? Humanity is a completely arbitrary configuration of bodies full of errors and badly designed sections. If I had a chance to fix my throat to solve the possibility of choking (because the airway is designed retardedly) I would take it in a heartbeat. There is nothing that makes "humanity" something intrisically valuable, if a new configuration of organs/limbs proves superior why the FUCK would you not change?
>>93903208>Yes just like every other government system is flawed because it's made by humansOther governments aren't built around giving a singular, fallible, selfish individual effectively unlimited power. You figure if autocracy was so great human societies would tend towards it as education increases and autocratic states would be the most prosperous and have the highest standards of living.
>>93902236Ah yes have sex with aliens who can't survive without their suit and a race we don't actually know what they look like due to them using psychic powers to make themselves more presentable to whoever is looking at them.Absolutely fucking disgusting.
>>93903840Pure vanilla, pure cope
>>93899316The best HFY stories were either about cooking, art, or the Fermi Paradox
>>93901379>some conniving arrogant alien race does something bad to humanity, then humanity, via some ambiguous force of malice and numbers, genocides them into ash."I still don't understand why Chinese cultivation autism and their "out by the roots" ethic haven't gotten more popular here. Seems like a perfect fit
>>93902384The solution to the Starship Trooperchud problem is to produce a book-accurate cg animated adaptation complete with egalitarian society, wealthy and successful non-citizens, intelligent ship-building weapon-wielding bugs, powered armor, and Philippinoe Johnny Rico
>>93904616As a Starship Troopers enjoyer, I'd kill for a book accurate film.
>>93897621Arknights?
>>93904678It's a pretty straightforward book to adapt to film too. Shame
>>93898547>they would still compete with us for the capture of energy produced by starsThere’s two hundred sextillion stars in the observable universe. That’s as many as two hundred billion trillions. We’re not exactly at risk of running out of stars.
>>93897621SplatoonPlanet of the Apes
>>93899232This is just HFY but with extra steps because you're trying to get allowed into polite spaces. This is the DEI of HFY.
>>93904701Yeah but Paul Verhoven decided he wasn't going to actually read the damn thing and instead make his own version which really poorly attempted to saterize fascism.Despite the fact the bugs still murdered the Mormons and still launched the asteroid. Which despite the fan theories, Verhoven said the bugs actually launched it making the retaliation justified because that's two times the bugs have murdered humans. Even though not saying it was the bugs and saying it was the federation would have strengthened his talking point
>>93903107>I'm accurately portrayed in this meme, so it's bad
Thoughts on Eclipse Phase's Factors?I have a soft spot for the because they remind me of some scifi short I read as a kid but other than that I think they're pretty flat. In particular, the whole security-by-obscurity-by-suicide thing feels very, how can I put it, incongruous against the backdrop of mental violation that's going on in the setting with forks and psychosurgery.
>>93904616>the only way to stop rightoids from idolizing starship troopers is by showing them that the pinnacle of futuristic human society lies in unity beyond borders, race, or religionunironically true
>>93903840>we don't actually know what they look like due to them using psychic powers to make themselves more presentable to whoever is looking at them.>I HEARD A DRUNK IN AN ALLEY SAY SOMETHING THAT MAKES IT SCIENTIFIC FACTLeast retarded HFYcuck
>>93902983Humans.
>>93903814>All Governments are all literally chains of hierarchies of individuals holding authority>All Business and Companies follow this structure>All human interactions follow this structureSeethe more egalitarist faggot
>>93905040>Chains of hierarchies>The same as appointing one person as unlimited and unrestricted rulerAmazing how some people cream themselves over autocracies and then piss and shit themselves when you suggest that they move to an autocratic state. If democracy is so terrible don't live in a democracy.
>>93905014Dude there's literally a conversation you can overhear in one of the games between a human, a turian and a salarian about asari and how to each of them they look like their own race.Proof of my claim. Right here https://youtu.be/JLSjR_-hgD8?si=af2Sxj3qgNS4L6E5Just saying, don't stick your dick in something that's catfishing you
>>93905073I dont think they're straight up using mind powers to get turians to think they look just like female turains and such, I think other species are just hyperfocusing on specific physical attributes; salarians like the skin, turians the head fringe, humans the uhh, human appearance
>>93905073>Dude there's literally a conversation you can overhearLooks like I need to repeat myself>I HEARD A DRUNK IN AN ALLEY SAY SOMETHING THAT MAKES IT SCIENTIFIC FACTOnce again, least retarded HFYcuck
>>93905073Lemme break this down for you very slowly>human sees a human ass when they look at a peachNo, the peach is not mindcontrolling you>human sees human lips on a Psychotria elataNo, you have not been indoctrinated by a psychic flower>human sees a cock'n'balls on the knot of a treeNo, that tree is not trying to seduce you into ending your bloodline.Do you get it yet? Sapient species will naturally attempt to anthropomorphize anything they come across. Elephants and ostriches and secretary birds do the same with humans.
>>93905064Amazing how libtards cry and rage about opinions that they claim are entirely equal and valid to their ownNo, I will work to make your shitty libhole shitstain into an autocratic state where my views are considered more valid then yours. Seethe fag
>>93905252And you will continue to fail. Pretty hilarious that you're telling other people to seethe as autocracy becomes increasingly unpopular across the globe. Don't worry I'm sure that someday based prince Charles III will reclaim the king's rightful place in the British nation and not end up executed like his namesake.
>>93905329Nigger here thinks thirty years of primacy is an achievement. Don't worry, people inevitably will follow some kind of leader, they already do in democratic states.
>>93905375>30 yearsSince WW1 at least and getting more popular. You're like the Chinks seething at the US saying "this is it the US is finished" every day since the battle of Onjong in 1950.
>>93905170>No, that tree is not trying to seduce you into ending your bloodline.Nice try succubus tree, I'm on to your game.
>>93905170>No, that tree is not trying to seduce you into ending your bloodline.Dryad, get off the internet, you're not meant to like technology.
>>93897588Why?We have the ability to build something greater, to live by each other's happiness rather than their misery.A more glorious future awaits, and we can all reach it together.
>>93905375a shame you didn't get to join heaven's gate
>>93897588Yet humans spend massive amounts of our creative time imagining, speculating, and lamenting that it's literally just us right now, and also having things like secondhand guilt at the extinction of actually lesser animals.
>>93897621you're living in it right now anon!
>>93904064Or all three to some extent.
>>93905040>dumb asshole propped up by an open and free society has no idea how absolutely fucked he'd be in an oppressive nightmare police stateIf you're actually some cuckold from Russia, China or Iran instead of a psyopped American / Euro then you're even more pathetic.
>>93897546>or is this just written mostly by people who hate the human race as a whole and say shit like "we should have went extinct"answered your own question their, buddy.>>93897621I know of Low Life, a comedic rpg where every apocalypse has happened and now everyone looks like mutated muppets.
>>93900293Unironically, Grayys are just meat robots used by the Reptilians to fuck with us
>>93903214Ah yeah, that's the stuff.Along with Starmaker.
>>93901431I like HFY but Avatar is the hill I will die on where humanity isn’t in the good.Humanity is shown to have completely fucked over Earth to the point of it being in the process of complete collapse, with most of mankind being in severe poverty, and shows no intentions of changing in their galactic ambitions.They have the same growth philosophy as the Tyrannids.It isn’t so much That and the colonel guy is a bad leader with no value for his men’s safety - shooting through the atmospheric barrier without warning anyone.
>>93897621IRL western countries
>>93904822In english, Einstein!
>>93906686A healthy human mind wouldn't waste so many words insisting that they are healthy and human. The poster is obviously a diseased alien imposter.
>>93906740Schizo, get your meds.
>>93902719Name?
>>93907277Saikyou no Shuzoku ga Ningen Datta Ken.
>>93904616Based Starship Trooper
>>93897588Retard>>93897546A lot of idiots look at the colonization and think european nations did it for the laughs instead of want to resources and trade goods no matter the cost to others, and assume we would do the same today even though such things would spark MASSIVE public outcry, in the West anyways
>>93904616>>93904952I also like the post-victim-oppressor-mentality society that Heinlein portrayed in the book. It really felt like we were on the way there before the current wave of race and sex stuff broke out. Personally, I blame big business and government after they saw Occupy Wallstreet
I thought it was a terrible movie with baffling acting choices but the intro to Valerian of astronauts handshaking while working together to build a space station and then as time passes more and more aliens show up and handshake the humans to go oive in the space station is a very altruistic depiction of humans
>>93907490>and assume we would do the same today even though such things would spark MASSIVE public outcry, in the West anywaysFrance still does this to this day and nobody bats an eye because all of it is reported only in french
>>93907490It would spark outcry because we're comfy and have everything we want. All major wars ceased when the globe was carved up into the haves and have-nots. We have air con and frozen food and don't really want for much, economy aside.So then it's a question of whether that desire could be reignited. if it turns out we can stop global warming or cure cancer or whatever with a big horrible fight, we'd all be strapping our helmets on again.
>>93907524That movie had its fair share of kino moments but boy does it also have long stretches where the director was doing the french movie director thing where nothing happens but it's supposed to be artistic
>>93897546I'll bet you five thousand bucks that the moment Zargon from Alpha Centauri makes contact with his spaceship and doesn't nuke us earth governments, leading ones anyways, are gonna try to sell him our garbage and buy his garbage in turn
>>93907537That's because its the french, public outcry there is the norm since around late 18th century>>93907540>if it turns out we can stop global warming or cure cancer or whatever with a big horrible fightMaybe but lets be real, governments and corporations will probably try to buy that stuff first, especially right now since we kinda lack offensive power outside of our immediate atmosphere
>>93902165I think you're talking about jenkinsverse/deathworlders. You're misremembering a fair bit, the real HFY was that humans came from a high gravity death world compared to the rest of the galaxy.Had some nice stories here and there, born out of the concept of "What if humans are the xenomorphs of this setting", but collapsed to people writing their OCs being olympian hyperchads who fuck 9 trillion women.
>>93898547I mean if we never invent FTL, expansion is likely to be so slow and disconnected that concepts like space empires waging space wars against competing space empires may be entirely inconceivable.
>>93907684>Humans overwhelm alien colony after gruesome struggle>Establish human colony>Oh no, an alien generation ship is coming, they've been en route for 800 years and they can't turn back.>Aliens overwhelm human colony after gruesome struggle>Establish alien colony>Oh no, a human generation ship is coming, they've been en route for 750 years and they can't turn back>Humans overwhelm alien colony after gruesome struggle>Establish human colony>Oh no, an alien generation ship is coming
>>93903814>says that every government system sucks>oh so you like autocracy!Absolute moron.
>>93897621Inherit the Earth
>>93908293Indeed. Obviously if he thinks that every government system sucks, that anon is a fan of anarchism.Even though anarchism sucks too.
>>93907711This is a pretty good concept desu and one of the few attempts I've seen to make 'space war' mesh with slow travel times.>>93907684This is also a good 'slow space' concept in general.
>>93908422Are you talking about me? No I was talking about >>93903814 And ofcourse anarchism sucks because it's a human made government system. Double so stupid because it doesn't fix anything it just removes everything. It's like being asked to fix a broken bridge and you just remove the bridge
>>93897546>aliens study humans from afar>make contact and ask to 'pack bond'>offer lucrative technologies>play it slow, show interest in human culture, don't get into any resource fights>ask pointed questions about human weapon production>"this is all evidence of your tragic history, you don't need that any more">continue sending alien ships to Earth for 'trade' and 'cultural exchange'>quietly achieve materiel advantage>nuke humanity out of space>leave one or two ships in patrol over Earth to stop them ever leaving the atmosphere again>"phew!">"another future rival removed from the competition!"I love human x alien cooperation but naivete in space is dumb as fuck.
>>93908422But anarchism is technically a system so it sucks
>>93908456>You don't need that [weapons] anymore
How about aliens and humanity form a union, then another alien group appears and aliens #1 and humanity have to team up against them?
>>93902825>>93902807you're retarded. Dark forest theory postulates the behaviour of intelligent life in an environment where it is assumed to be populated by equally as intelligent (if not more so) beings with unclear motives. The metaphor from the books even describes a park, not an actual forest. Think about it, if you were in the middle of chiraq at night, would you avoid shifty looking men? The metaphor even further compounds on this, aliens are worse than shifty men in a park; any sort of interstellar communication occurs over distances lightyears in length with beings whose motivations you cannot comprehend due to entirely different evolutionary circumstances and conditions.
>>93908484>the aliens #2 are magical beings.>they just blast the union from the universe
>>93908456Anon making contact at all in that situation is naivety. If you were just gonna launch nukes you just do that first. Why would you go up and say hi to someone and get on their good side when your plan is to just fire a high explosive at their house?
>>93908504Yeah, I know, just making up a scenario in which humans had a chance of winning at all. Then some subtlety might be necessary while the guns get lined up.>>93908477This is my response to OP's little comic, yes
>>93908293Not every one, just autocracies.
>>93908488Here’s the fundamental problem with the Dark Forest theory. Say that China decides that sending signals out into space is a recipe for disaster and so decides it’s gonna stop so as to not invite aliens to kill Earth.How’s China gonna stop America from sending signals?How’s China gonna stop the European Union from sending signals?How’s China gonna stop Japan or Russia or Brazil or Australia or such from sending signals?What is China gonna do about the century or so of signals we’ve already sent out?The answer to all of the above is, essentially, “nothing”. Earth is not United, China can’t do shit to stop other countries from sending signals out into space, and China can’t do shit about the signals we’ve already sent out.Now the obvious follow-on: why presume that aliens are any more inherently unified than Earth? Extrasolar planets are going to be just as geographically diverse as Earth, with vast distances, unequal resource distribution, and changing environmental factors almost certainly leading those planets’ inhabitants to be just as innately disunited as humans are on Earth. Which means that even as some of them think “aliens are gonna kill us, we shouldn’t send out signals!”, others are gonna think, “aliens can help us in so many ways and also I want to bang one, let’s send our signals!” And they’re going to have been sending our signals for a long time such that even if they eventually stop, they won’t be able to do jack shit about the signals already sent.So. That is but one reason why the Dark Forest theory is innately flawed.
>>93908488It still fails because there’s no reason to assume everyone else is as advanced and intelligent/stupid as you. If you fire off RKVs at every signal you might throw a punch at someone much stronger than you, if you just let people be than you don’t risk drawing attention.Dark forest theory is like saying the reasonable response to being in Chiraq at night is to shoot every single person you see. Also it assumes the reason for being quiet? It could be something more akin to life being rare, or something like Star Trek’s policy of non-interference being seen as the norm throughout the galaxy, it could also simply be we can’t detect their communication. If humans are the Sentinel Islanders of the galactic community it doesn’t mean we’re under threat of extermination, we might simply be a group specifically left to our own devices until we seek out the wider community.
>>93908544>Yeah, I know, just making up a scenario in which humans had a chance of winning at all. Then some subtlety might be necessary while the guns get lined up.It's the same as the dudes that think that their absurd waste of money on a personal collection of guns is gonna help them if the army wanted to take them. Or a group of hooligans. Action movie mind set.
>>93908734To add onto this, firing an RKV is in itself a signal that you're sending out to everyone else in space. Also, the resources you use making and firing an RKV at anyone lightyears away from you are resources you're not using to to protect yourself from your domestic rivals, who are a fraction of a lightsecond away from you.
>>93908749>dude this is just like "highly charged political topic with barely any relevance"
>>93908762If the dark forest theory was so good, then aliens would definitely be following their own version of it. So even if they receive our signals they'd be like NOPE, I'm avoiding that bunch of potential murderhobos.
>>93908488Dark forest theory postulates the behavior of 'intelligent life' in a magical universe where it's impossible to build spaceships or colonies and where interstellar empires have exactly one planet and nothing else.By the time an RKV reaches a colony there will be 10^6 colonies where that came from. The only version of the great filter which is being run by other aliens that makes sense is an anti-spiral situation where a single regional superpower oppresses lower lifeforms; and this couldn't possibly be more different from dork forest if you tried.
>>93908890Higher order alien civilizations would wipe us out if they found our signals, so that we don't develop into a strong enough power to join in the dimensional warfare and lightspeed-destroying battles the rest of intergalactic society is engaged in and hasten the destruction of the universe through reducing the number of dimensions from ten, to three, to two, to one, and then to zero.
>>93908544>Then some subtlety might be necessary while the guns get lined up.I think you underestimate how much trade ships are checked for contraband, spaceships would be no different and nukes would be found very, very quickly
>>93908966My point exactly, anon. Unless your civilisation is suicidally careless, first contact should be met with extreme caution, and all outsiders should be considered a potential threat until definitively proven otherwise.
>>93908930Sure thing, GPTmanThe theory, and it's problems, long predate the books which also in themselves completely assume that it is false (while still keeping the magical one-planet for higher empires axiom).
>>93908930So you know what pisses me off about the Three-Body Problem series of books? Everything. Absolutely everything I learn about them pisses me off more than the last thing I learned about it.Let’s start with the most basic thing: the Alpha Centauri system is not a three-body problem. Alpha Centauri A and B orbit each other in a stable two-body system, while Proxima orbits the two from 13,000 AU (.21 ly) out. That’s over four hundred times the distance from Sol to Neptune. Proxima is so distant from Alpha Centauri AB that from Earth it appears to be four entire lunar diameters distant. You’d think it was an entirely different star system if you didn’t know any better. And this isn’t a new discovery, this has been a known fact of the Alpha Centauri system for the better part of a hundred years now. So the entire basis for the Trisolarans is screwed from the get-go. Trisolaris shouldn’t be chaotically swinging around Alpha Centauri and experiencing disaster after disaster. It should be in either a stable orbit around Alpha Centauri AB or a stable orbit around Proxima.Second point. How is it that a species can develop technology advanced enough to fold a planet-sized computer down to the size of a proton, but they can’t invent O’Neill Cylinders to live in instead of living on their impossible death world? How are they not just reorganizing their system to be more stable? Why do they even need to colonize Earth with their demonstrated level of technology?
>>93909157It's like asking 'why does The Martian feature a storm capable of bending metal on a planet with barely any atmosphere', or 'what cuts the moon apart in Seveneves' or 'why does [sci fi setting] have faster-than-light transport'. These things are ridiculous, but it allows the plot to take place. Not every part of a 'hard' sci-fi plot has to be hard, only the focus of it, which might not even be a physical matter. It could be conceptual.
>>93897546>HFYfags when the aliens also overcome impossible odds with the power of their indomitable (Species) spirit
>>93909178I mean you kind of raise a good point about the Martian’s impossible wind storm, but something just seems weirder about restructuring an entire well-understood trinary star system instead of just picking something further out that’s less well understood or at least less well-known, like Gliese 667. Nevertheless that’s just a minor issue overall.The major one is the Trisolarans’ behavior. The decisions they make don’t seem to match up with the technology at their disposal and what they can actually do with it. Like I said, it doesn’t make sense to me that the Trisolarans should have this burning need to colonize Earth when their displayed level of technology should allow them to sculpt their home system to their tiny hearts’ content.
>>93908568ESL-kun...You really are stupid.
>>93909358>ESLI accept your concession
>>93909262>humankind aligns with them>50 years later there's infighting between their own species
>>93909362You probably don't know what concession means ESL-kun
>>93908991Of course the governments are gonna be cautious, my point is that they will try to steer relationships towards trade with ayy lmaos, partially to one up their earthly rivals
>>93909178>Not every part of a 'hard' sci-fi plot has to be hard, only the focus of it, which might not even be a physical matter.It's entirely the opposite. Every part of a sci-fi plot has to be hard besides the specific speculation for it to be hard sci-fi. Three body problem is about as hard as startrek.
>>93900599Runaway to the Stars has that be humanity's "thing" compared to the other races and find it unsettling in us the same way we might their casual infanticide. It's that "rational in-between" thing where everyone's civilised-ish and reasonably humane but arising from distinct evolutionary histories.>>93902453Corpse avoidance perhaps or just our pareidolia Wiley Coyoteing itself over a "cliff" as it tries to read cues into things where they almost but not quite fit. Man I wish morons like >>93902384 would remember that we're the OP Dunbar's number + verbal substitute grooming apes. As much bonobo as chimp.
>>93909372I don't talk to loses, sorry. Shouldn't have conceded if you wanted to keep yapping.
>>93908601why would you assume that aliens would form factions or nation states for that matter? they might not even be able to conceptualize such things. >because a diversity of conditionsWhy would that necessarily lead to divisions that would make sense from a human or even mammalian point of view? There are a variety of social animals that already behave quite differently to us here on Earth. Any sort of life that evolves with different conditions to ours will behave in erratic and unpredictable manner. >what are we going to do about signals already sentiirc most of our radio signals disperse into background less than a light-year out. Its more likely that an advanced aliens could see signs of life and intelligence with a sufficiently big enough telescope. The issue with that is that any sort of large scale structures will also visible. >>93908734Dark forest theory postulates that most actors would choose to hide instead of fighting. But those that chose to fight do so because they are stuck in a form of the prisoner's dilemma. In interstellar communications the equation is heavily weight towards defection instead of cooperation due to a variety of factors such as the limitations of communication-latency and the inability to discern and understand their motivations in a significant and actionable timeframe. >Dark forest theory is like saying the reasonable response to being in Chiraq at night is to shoot every single person you see.The issue that there are trigger happy people that will mug and even possibly kill you instantiates the need to be quiet and hide. But unlike chiraq you cannot simply walk out of the universe. >>93908900why would you assume that aliens would be limited to only using relativistic kill weapons? and for that matter why would spaceships and colonies preclude it? A reasonable response to it would be to not live on a planetary body which is covered in the books.
PSA to all transhumanists, alien-fuckers and self-proclaimed misanthropes:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cig9UQSNZwQPS: Try to answer without sounding mad
>>93910179Science is gay and so is my wife, so where's the problem?
>>93909473>As much bonobo as chimp.You realise these two species are so similar that they weren't even considered different animals until the mid-20th century? The entire public perception of 'bonobos' as something separate to chimpanzees is based on a paper that sums up to 'bored, stunted apes with nothing to do will touch themselves a lot'. Both species are notorious for this. In the wild, a chimpanzee and a pygmy chimpanzee ('bonobo') behave pretty much the same.
>>93910254>In the wild, a chimpanzee and a pygmy chimpanzee ('bonobo') behave pretty much the same.lol, where did you hear that?
>>93910254>>93910179I want retarded /his/ fags out.
>>93910017>why would you assume that aliens would form factions or nation states for that matter?You would need an evolutionary environment completely devoid of competition, somehow. Even animals will form territory and divvy up resources by who can claim them. The modern nation state is just am advanced evolution of this sort of behavior.
>>93910281While nation states totally outcompeted their predecessors, nation states are only like 200 years old and they weren't always the most powerful.This is somehow both bad biology and bad political science.
>>93909734ESL-kun write like a human being
>>93897546The human norm is in-group preference. The idea of better 10 of your guys die than 1 of mine. White Leftists have out-group preference. They prefer non-whites to whites. They look at this general human preference and believe it is an unusual evil. That the enlightened races of the galaxy would be far past that. Combine this with warhammer 40k fans who are like “kill all aliens”, and you get “humans are space orks”. This is not a besmirching of the trend. I am only attempting to explain why it is a thing.
>>93910579Probably the most intelligent post of this threaf
>>93910579>That the enlightened races of the galaxy would be far past that.Yes, but the idea isn't that advancement automatically gets you past that, the idea is that the ones who are still alive are the ones who got past that (and the galaxy is littered with the bones of those who didn't, and our bones might join them, the verdict is still out).
>>93910590>Retarded /pol/shit>"Most intelligent post"That's a strong condemnation of everyone else anon.
>>93910661>/pol/shit is being reasonable Ok faggot boy. Believe whatever you eant to be. If everything you don't like is /pol/shit so be it.
>>93910621>looking out for yourself on a societal level>something to 'get past'What?
>>93910680Read the fucking post you goddamn retard.
>>93910770Yeah he's pretty reasonable
>>93906271based
>>93910780You too can depart for /pol/ then.
>>93910786Nah I'm pretty sure the average centrist can agree with his sentiment. Hell even nonwhite leftist, hell even some white leftists.
>>93910844Anon, not a single person outside of /pol/ thinks "leftists" "have a preference for out groups" or believe that having any other view is "an unusual evil".You are genuinely retarded, whoever gave you your basic schooling owes you an apology and your money back.
>>93910918Noone outside of a white leftist would be mad like this.
>>93910928Thank you for proving the point. Now go back
>>93910579>White Leftists have out-group preferenceYeah, no, white folk all band together at the end of the day. This is internet ignorance of how you really are as a race; your neanderthal ancestry comes out in the end. You aren't real humans, and that is why you act the way you do.The world would be better if all of you were legitimately wiped out. The story of Yakub and his sub-human monsters really has more basis in reality than it's creators knew.
>>93910954And thanks for proving MY point whiteboy
>>93910964Sorry but I can't take you seriously with that yakub talk. It's like talking about deforestation and bring out the yeti out of nowhere
>>93901365please elaborate
>>93910918Also white leftists still have in-group bias, they just deny or lampshade it because pro-white bias is seen as wrong. Also having compassion for outgroups is a general western liberal value shared by most English-speaking people (because most English-speaking people live in liberal democracies), it's not a "white leftist" thing. But his basic point is that peace-making is seen as a socially-advanced modern value, and that we expect advanced aliens to share that value, which is accurate. >>93910928>look at how poltarded I am
>>93911009Literally not arguingAlso>But his basic point is that peace-making is seen as a socially-advanced modern valueBullshit. Clearly not in reality>and that we expect advanced aliens to share that value, which is accurate.Which can't be accurate because aliens will never think like us it's stupid.
>>93911009Even if we ignore the race baiting bullshit, obviously "Leftists" as a group prefer other fucking "Leftists". This nonsense presented would involve leftists being like "I sure do love my political enemies and hate my allies". It's nonsense. Pure abject poppycock. Leftists don't love /pol/.But if all he said was that we project our own ideas of what society should be unto more advanced beings, then that would be fine and dandy. But it's not really a useful analysis when it's wrapped up in a justification that stupid.>>93911049You are literally arguing.
>>93911049>Bullshit. Clearly not in realityIt is possible that you aren't failing to appreciate the distinction between our values and our practice. But also, in practice, we're all better peacemakers than our ancestors were. The "different people should die" meme is still here but it's weaker than it has ever been at any other point in history. >aliens will never think like us it's stupid.Like I said earlier, the idea isn't that all aliens will know how to make peace, the idea is that the aliens who are still alive will know how to make peace.
>>93910987White people are inhuman monsters, and should be treated as such.The entire world treats your kind like aliens that need to be worked with, but you aren't to be trusted for a reason.
>>93911086>This nonsense presented would involve leftists being like "I sure do love my political enemies and hate my allies". It's nonsense. Because he wasn't saying that and you are making stuff up.>Leftists don't love /pol/.Where did he say that again.>But it's not really a useful analysis when it's wrapped up in a justification that stupid.You are not helping yourself >>93911092>But also, in practice, we're all better peacemakers than our ancestors were. Yeah deffintly there is no war in Israel. Ukranian war isn't a thing. There were no wars in the middle east. There were no wars in africa. It's all just made up.>the idea is that the aliens who are still alive will know how to make peace.Again you are humanizing them you believe that they'll act just like you want to.>>93911100I'm not white.
>>93911140Anon what the fuck do you think in and out group means?
>>93911154He was talking about race not political though
>>93908930What if we are higher order? They don't know it, because it's a dark forest.
>>93911175As I said, it's race baity bullshit, and if we ignore the race baity bullshit we end up with a statement that's clearly insane (It's also insane with the race baity bullshit, but you've bought into the /pol/tarded premise so you're beyond saving). It exists solely to be /pol/ nonsense.Everything said in this thread for hours is pointless political garbage.
>>93910353But they became the most powerful the instant the technology existed to support them.
>>93910231Wow, what a horribly clipped image. Apologize to MSPaint NOW
>>93911140>Yeah deffintly there is no war in Israel. Ukranian war isn't a thing. There were no wars in the middle east. There were no wars in africa. It's all just made up.What are you comparing us to? The world peace that we had in the past? >Again you are humanizing them you believe that they'll act just like you want to.I am not. Pay attention. I'm saying that xenophobia is maladaptive in the long-term and that xenophobic species will tend to kill themselves and/or eachother.
>>93911202Like everything if you take out of context.
>>93911218You the peace that never existed?>will tend to kill themselves and/or eachother.Again humanizing.
>interesting philosophical discussion>americans wake up>REEEEEEE LEFTISTS AND NIGGERS
>>93911234Take a nap.
>>93911236Ah yes "I'm making stuff to get mad at"Classic
>>93911249Take a nap
>>93911236>European wakes up>Mad at AmericaDay ends in Y
>>93911236>HFY cuckshit>interestingUnderageb& detected.
>>93911345American education moment
>>93910231>>93910280Hit the gym fatty.
>>93911086>I sure do love my political enemiesGonna be that guy in this kind of discussion and point out several of my relatives are conservative and if you mess with them, I will ruin you for marriage and go back to arguing with them about the Cold War and whether Birds are Real.
>>93911533Congratulations, you have managed to not disown your family over politics, that makes you better than a lot of people.
>>93897621Pikmin
>>93909283They have god-tier tech in that one domain, but maybe photon unfolding is easier than it looks? They definitely don't seem to have a "free energy" tech, which they would need to do massive terraforming and planetary realignment. They probably do have some space stations, but energy is always going to be a bottleneck. (I've only read the first book so its possible I'm missing information here.)
>>93911759Their main attack ship is called the Droplet. As far as I know they have just the one. All it is, is a cruise missile-sized ship with a hull with atoms that have been compacted together so tightly that it's indestructible insofar as physical force is concerned. The one Droplet wipes out humanity's entire starfleet in a matter of hours just by ramming two thousand or so ships over and over again.You can't have tech like that and not be able to figure out how to build O'Neil Cylinders. An O'Neil Cylinder is literally just a big cylinder that you start spinning to simulate gravity via centrifugal force. We could build them today, right now, with our current level of technology, if we had a reason to. You could house millions of people inside each one, with simulated environments - forests, parks, lakes, etc. They are, in many ways, considerably superior to living on a planet. And since you can build them anywhere they totally avoid the Dark Forest problem. You could build thousands of them and stick them in orbit around red dwarfs, the most common stars in the universe but also among the least likely to harbor native life due to how dim they are.
>>93897546>Just working together>Not proving you are worth working together by testing each others abilities and merits through competition where one sinks or swimsdysgenic partnership.Dead in a galactic second.A balance of might and compromise is necessary. To neither become a beast or a milksop.
>>93910179This feels like it was made by a greedy alien who doesn’t want humanity to start harvesting the riches of the cosmos and remain stagnant and ignorant.Post hand - or should I say tentacle?
>>93910353I don't really see how modern countries are very far removed from, say, 1500s Spain. Geographic and population size for nations have exploded since technology can support better organization and communication over distance but you'll have to explain to me how the hierarchical structures are actually different.
>>93910281Do eusocial insects participate in intragroup competition? I doubt ants if they were just as capable as humans would form entities like nation states. That is a distinctly mammalian concept in my opinion. >>93912070Trisolans have the ability manipulate the strong nuclear force in order to produce new and much stronger than naturally occurring materials. >why didnt they build space habitatsthey did, but it was not really expanded in the main three books. Not all of the trisolans went on the generation ships to invade Earth, some stayed behind. It was never stated whether they initially sent out ships to other parts of the galaxy but thats what they ended up doing anyways after the humans signal where they trisolans live.
>>93897588If they look weird and have a color that belongs on crayons then they gotta die. Humanity always
>>93913753>Do eusocial insects participate in intragroup competition?Virign bee queens will destroy the other queen cells after they hatch, and if two hatch at the same time they tend to fight to the death (but not always). Sometimes the younger queen will fight the elder too, assuming the elder doesn't just leave the hive. Ants will sort of compete when choosing new nesting sites, with different groups basically trying to advertise their choice to the rest of the hive. I don't think that's exactly what you meant though. I don't think this really challenges my point much though. Ants and other social insects compete with themselves for resources all the time, it's just with other colonies. There's no reason to think an alien species that mimics social insects wouldn't break into factions after certain population thresholds as their methods of social control hit their natural limits.
>>93913819But Angry Marine, you look weird and have colors that belong on crayons! Do you gotta die, too?
>>93914005>you look weird
>>93913819>>93914078>cringe reddit meme>cringe reddit opinionEvery time
>>93914005I’m just Asian you shitfuck
>>93905170>No, that tree is not trying to seduce you into ending your bloodline.How does your kind even get access to the internet you pollen slut?
>>93897588>>93913819This shit is always funny to me since it obviously can only happen in the framework of our fiction where we deliberately write the aliens to be lame and weak, or with humans somehow overpowering a superior force by sheer anime protagonist levels of unearned wank. Imagine if humans try that, but get utterly stomped by an alien force that literally had no reason to be hostile toward humanity until we gave them a reason to.
>>93897546What? Humans have a moral obligation to impregnate or dominate lessers.
>>93914624It's not any better or any more mature to take a shitty genre and flip it. You're just lowering yourself to their level.>>93911533>I will ruin you for marriage >if you fuck with me I'll be a huge fag and have gay sex with men
>>93913984Yes sure there is a narrow field of competition between queens in a nest. But otherwise they do not compete within their own nest in the same way that mammals do in a social sense or even within a nation state. The notion that nation states are an ur-state of being for any technological species is nonsensical and anthropomorphic. "There's is no reason... social control hit their natural limit" that would imply that they would even conceive of themselves as belonging to a shared group. Normally most eusocial insects kill each other on encountering differing nests and blades. Which is quite unlike humans.
>>93914005Even in death I still serve
>>93915883>that would imply that they would even conceive of themselves as belonging to a shared groupNo it doesn't. It implies the hive or colony has a point at which their evolved forms of social hierarchy break down under weight of numbers, and a new heirarchy has to split off or else the whole system collapses. Bees already do this too. If the hive becomes too large it splits and becomes a new one. For your supposition to come true it would require the equivalent of an ant colony with no upper limit on population capacity and the ability to control colony heirarchy in some way that crosses empty space.
>be xenophilic group with no particular in-group preference>do not recognise tribal boundaries>"here, you are in need. have some resources">resources are absorbed by other group>other group has strong in-group preference and identifies tribe members easily>"i see that it is your turn to be in need. however, these resources are earmarked for my tribe." >"i will not compromise my obligation to the in-group to aid you. good luck.">xenophilic group bleeds resources that are never returned>tribal group has full access to its own resources and anything shared by the xenophiles>resource differential accumulates>xenophiles dwindle to irrelevance and go extinctNon-tribal behaviour is an evolutionary misfire. It's beneficial in a very small set of circumstances, and otherwise disappears.
>>93902236Yeah xenophiles have to fantasise about fucking aliens because that's the only conceivable way they could ever get sexLmao you may as well brag about wanting to fuck dogs
>>93897546In D&D, humans were naturally Lawful Evil, and their creator deity was the LE god of purity, perfection, speciesism, and tyranny whose religious rites involved burning nonhumans in cathedral furnaces. The humans eventually killed him though, freeing themselves of their racial alignment.
>>93902949No dude you're just a retard who can't comprehend non-human intelligence.>ALIENS WILL TOTALLY HAVE THE SAME MENTALITY AND VALUES AS 21ST CENTURY HUMAMSYou're the kind of dipshit who thinks bears are hecking wholesome cuddly teddy bears and tigers are just big kitty cats. Your survival instincts have dulled to the point that the only reason you're still alive is because of a concentrated human effort to keep you alive. You're basically the human equivalent of a pug. That's nothing to be proud of
>>93916476Zarus is literally a one edition wonder who's influence doesn't even extend to other universes. He's a fucking nobody unless you subscribe to the meme that he did a complete 180 and became Pelor.
>>93916413>he had to make up a completely niche and bizarre scenario to justify his racismYeah man, an evolutionary misfire. That's why charitability evolves over and over and over again in multiple kingdoms of life. Because it's so shit.
>>93916534Yeah but crocodiles ain't going to stop eating other animals because one certain bird cleans it's teeth.
>>93916480>You're basically the human equivalent of a pug. That's nothing to be proud ofThis is unirronically true.
>>93916480Whole lot of assumptions and projection on your part, as always is the case. And your attempt at being "smart" about it is also pathetically transparent. Birds, reptiles, and insects are about as alien as a thing can be to us on our own planet, and we still manage to understand them to some degrees. You sound like one of those insufferable fags who think that something can't be alien if it has even 1% of human traits in it because apparently it's somehow impossible for a non-human to have traits that are universally selected for that are NOT in fact the sole domain of humanity or even mammals.
>>93916413It's funny how hiffers think that the only options are either absolute xenophobia or absolute xenophilia. If you don't kill everyone who looks even the slightest bit different from you, then clearly you must give all your resources to complete strangers even when they never give you any help in return. No healthy middle ground allowed.
>>93908484That's the plot of the 3 body problem
>>93916987Probably a consequence of playing too much stellaris
>>93902734No, but I have heard of the humongous faggot theory, which states that nerds will come up with some scary spooky thing to gain the attention of normalfags and rinse them for money
>>93917249I remember getting really mad at the doomsday clock when I found out it doesn't actually track anything, it's just vibes.
>>93899049>I cannot think of a single setting where humans are the evil race40k
>>93917249I guess you consider Mary Shelly a huge faggot them?
Since mankind first looked up at the skies, he has dreamed of having sex with them. See: the myth of Tithonus.We have learned, with great sadness, that we cannot fuck the sky. We will not be the peerless hero who deflowers the virgin sun or the lady of the moon. We cannot even make love to the stars.But we hope that there will be living creatures who dwell in the stars. We hope that we can reach them and find friendship, that our species is not the sole intelligent life, alone in all the heavens, growing ever more maddened by its isolation. No, that we cannot accept. There must be others.And when we find them, we _will_ have sex with them. Their blood may be acid and they may breathe poison, but we _will_ have sex with them. They may have clawing razors for genitals and limbs that would crush our human frames as easily as we can crush a baby’s skull, but we _will_ have sex with them, and you can count on it.How, you ask? You are like the early caveman who asked Thog Uklakala "how?" when he said he would fight a saber-toothed tiger and win.You do not understand what it is to be human, to wish to have sex with the sky and cuddle with the stars, to want to travel to distant worlds and fuck their strange female-analogues, to wish to hunt the giant saber-toothed tiger and walk away, to wish to be the little girl. These are things that we cannot do with our bodies alone.If we find aliens, we will have sex with them, just as we soar across the sky, just as we travelled to the moon, just as Thog hunted the saber-toothed tiger at the dawn of man.We _will_ have sex with them, no matter what difficulties we may face along the way. We _will_ have sex with them, because if it comes down to it WE’LL BUILD A MACHINE TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM.
>>93917300I dunno anon every race in 40k is kinda evil. I would call humans "the evil guys" in 40k.
>>93917313Now this man speaks my words
>>93917300Everyone is evil in 40k, just different flavors of evil.>>93917316Dark Eldar strike me as the "Evil guys" in 40k, because they are absolutely over the fucking top with being evil for evil's sake.
>>93908484I prefer settings where humanity and aliens with a regular old war in space and then another alien species appears and we have to team up to beat them, and THAT's where we form a union.
>>93916720Mothefucker we've not met a sapient species that isn't very closely related to us. Comparing sapient species to animals is like comparing a dog to a virus
>>93917337>Sapient species not related to usCorvidsDolphins/WhalesOctopiCrows have literal murder investigations when they find one of their own dead, to try and figure out what the fuck killed them. They will hold grudges for years, and spread that grudge to other crows. Crows are sapient, they are just stuck in bird bodies.
>>93917311Pretty sure she sucked off men
>>93917350That's a very theoretical fucking answer anon. And literally you can't say that they are truelly sapient. As in they are self aware, probably. But then again the ways we try to understand them are very experimental and taking them as the gospel is stupid honestly
>>93917337If humans were truly so great and vastly intellectually superior we would not be constantly falling prey to the very same base instincts and impulses the supposedly lesser animals have which we should have grown out of or diverged greatly from. There are too many people who wholeheartedly buy into our own degenerate self-deification.
Anytime some fedora-tipping self-proclaimed misanthrope transhumanist cum-guzzler starts bleating about how "le heckin humans SUCK" remember that when you get past the layers of puddle-deep philosophical bloviating and hollow faux-sophistication they're basically pic related.
>>93917398You are literally pulling shit out of your ass. You use one word and base the entire argument around that. Such wow.
>>93916987>>93916534>lay out an analogy in the simplest possible terms>so fucking simple, a child can understand it>cut out everything except the absolute core of the matter, so readers can learn the principle>you know, like a 'timmy has five apples' worksheet for elementary school>"b-b-but i don't understand!! where's the nuance?? what if timmy has SIX apples? what if he has oranges instead??"
>>93917428There's nothing wrong with wanting to upload your immortal consciousness into a cyborg body, but thinking that you deserve anything just because you exist is peak antisocial.
>>93917384Look more into the research done with corvids, anon. They make memes, they play pointless games, they hold grudges, they can learn how to barter and trade, and recognize themselves in mirrors. Being able to go "That's me" means you grasp the concept of "me"
>>93901305Crowbros, we are finally human. Plato was off in his classification, but not too much.
>>93917440You began by already pulling out nonsense to justify your own argument, when realistically most agree if aliens exist and are advanced enough to actually go out and meet us, they would most likely be more like us than not. We live in a universe with pretty standard rules.
>>93917448>There's nothing wrong with wanting to upload your immortal consciousness into a cyborg bodyWrong, it's escapist bullshit. Not a coincidence it's always espoused by fat retards who want to escape their own inner weakness by magical means instead of doing something as simple as hitting the gym and eating healthy.
>>93902734>dark forest theoryPeople still peddle that crap?
>>93917465Yes, just like how people still peddle the endurance hunting meme.
>>93917458You are again believing that they'll act like humans (which they won't) in the first place. And again stupidly humanizing them.
>>93917473And you are arrogantly believing that aspects of human behavior are not just sapient behavior in general, and attributing things specifically to us only as though we own entire concepts.
>>93917446They are brain-damaged. They care more about FUCKING ROCKS than their own flesh and blood. No wonder they go on and on about "le heckin wholesome foreign slop food" when children are being raped and killed day in and day out.
>>93917491People who go on about muh flesh and blood grossly overstate its importance and were never victim to betrayal by that same flesh and blood.
>>93917487And again making stuff up
>>93917470At least marathon running exists as a sport. Dark Forest doesn't have anything.
>>93917510He's not making more shit than you, tbqh. You claim that they MUST be different, he says they MUST be similiar.
>>93917510It's all fucking made up because we have a literal sample size of one.
>>93917337>>93917440>>93917473>>93917510I see that your nap didn't help.
>>93900502Extinction gives extermination vibes and internalizing that you can get extinct by slow replacement of fucking instead of some flashy, brutal conflict would require you to reassess your current bearings in the modern world and its events.
>>93917553It didn't because everyone is still arguing over the most useless shit>but then why are you?Because it's fun
consider that aliens find us adorable
>>93917446Even a child can understand the merits of reciprocating aid, but I guess that's too advanced for hiffers.
>>93917337>>93917575>Comparing sapient species to animals is like comparing a dog to a virusThis is damning. It shows that you don't know what you're talking about and that you don't want to know what you're talking about. You're only here because the conversation offends you and you want to shut it down.
>>93902734If Rocco's Basilisk and Dark Forest fought, who would win?
>>93917651Rocco's Basilisk would defeat and infinitely torture every conceivable kind of intelligent entity within the confines of its simulation. Then alien tourists would take it apart for fun, thus ending the simulation.
>>93917508I'm sorry that you're so worthless your own family disowned you and your bloodline will end with you but please don't project your personal failures on the rest of humanity.
>>93917677You are very naive, or stupid, confidently so like most idiots.
>>93910990It's simple, we fuck their genes into extinction.
>>93917677I think that the ingroup/outgroup mentality has been overstated here. The people who make pro-nationalist arguments to foreigners are also making pro-family arguments to their countrymen and pro-me arguments to their families. If they were in a position to make pro-me arguments on a global scale then they absolutely would.
>>93902236>>93902949What if I want to do both? Kill their men and breed their women?
>>93917710Wanting your species to continue existing and to thrive is a moral good and a moral duty, showing favor to outgroups over your own is mental illness. This is objective fact.
>>93917718Why are you a misandrist freak?
>>93917664based alien tourists casually ending infinite tormentreal cool guys, i'd buy them a spacr beer
>>93917751nooooo you can't buy them a beer you have to hate them because they're different from you!!!!!
>>93917726No I'm space Dirlewanger
>>93917723>Wanting your species to continue existing and to thrive is a moral good and a moral dutyYou only say that because we're talking about aliens. If we were talking about fossil fuels you would say that species doesn't matter or that "your species" is just white people. And if we were talking about tax burden or voter representation then suddenly "your species" is only the people in your state. I have no reason to believe that your selfishness would stop at your flesh-and-blood family, I think you'll just make pro-me arguments in every situation. Also you don't know what "objective" means.
>>93917723If the threat of the outgroup is not existential then there is a duty to tolerate them. I think ultimately conflict and instability that arise from lack of tolerance harms both the ingroup and the outgroup, and is avoidable.
Reminder that everyone defines their own in-group and their own out-group. Broad statements dealing with ingroup or outgroup aren't always meaningful. Some people see their in-group as one person.
>>93917644Maybe, but I'm not a jew.Keep making stuff up it will be as real as your arguments. So not at all
>>93917797>If the threat of the outgroup is not existentialEven if they hadn't been carrying out terrorist attacks claiming thousands of lives and raping thousands of women and children in coordinated gangs, no, there's no "duty" to tolerate anything. Especially if they actively refuse to integrate, act like they're entitled to tell you what to do in your own country, and refuse to abide by the law or even basic hygiene.
>I wish my son had been killed by a 60-year old human instead.
>>93917831>>93917858And now the mask is off.
>>93917963>can't refuteYour surrender is accepted.
>>93918074lolYou're a low-IQ culture warrior who has chosen to champion amorality. You entered a conversation that you did not understand or care about because you were offended by the implication that intelligent creatures might be able to get over their differences. No punchline is needed here, your life is the punchline.
>>93918090All available evidence tells me that no, our differences can't be overcome and we can't coexist. But if you want to prove me wrong feel free to move to Somalia. Do livestream the results too.
>>93917963>you are le bad manWow such post>>93918090Still making shit up
>>93897621The Bible.
>>93917459>hitting the gym and eating healthy will make you immortal and coolNo, it won't, stop being delusional.
>>93918164>>93918219Go to /b/ or /pol/ or /trash/. You don't belong here and you never will.
>>93917619I think it's more likely that aliens find us absolutely retarded and don't want to get anywhere close in order to avoid catching our mental illness.
>>93918552it could be boththere could be an alien /an/ where they post videos of nuclear reactors like how we post webms of apes with hammers
First you will be made to believe humanity has to unite against evil, but fake aliens, so that normies will call the Lord's Second Coming an alien invasion.
>>93915126Ok, groomer.
>>93917858>act like they're entitled to tell you what to do in your own country, and refuse to abide by the law or even basic hygieneObviously. Based on this, we should eliminate all chuds.
>>93918511Why? Because of shit you've made up?
>>93918918Because you're political shitters and no one wants you. The only reason you ever came to 4chan was because no one else wanted you. The truth is that we don't really want you either, but if you're going to stay then we would prefer it if you stayed in /b/ or /pol/ or /trash/.
>>93916521>Zarus is literally a one edition wonderBarely at that, he was in just one book, which wasn't even the best book of the series ("Races of...") that it was part of.
>>93918788Ah yes cannibalistic humanoid underground dwellers. Where do you guys keep seeing them? Are you schizophrenic?
>>93918940So, shit you've made up.
>>93918963The mask is off, we know that you never really wanted to talk about aliens, we know that you were just treating them as a proxy for immigrants and jews. Most of us knew already, we just wanted to see if you'd admit it, and you did. You're a shitter, no one wants you, go to /pol/ or go back where you came from.
>>93919013I wasn't but ok. And if you actually got offended by that then it's no wonder threads like these exists. 4chan is far from it's heyday.
>>93918164>All available evidence tells me that no, our differences can't be overcome and we can't coexistCasey Kasem. Famous voice actor and radio host for American Top 40, did a lot of VA work in the '60s thru the '90s. You probably know him best as the original VA for Shaggy from Scooby-Doo. He also was a VA in the original The Transformers cartoon, voicing the computer Teletraan I as well as the characters of Bluestreak, Cliffjumper, and Doctor Arkeville.His birth name was Kemal Amin Kasem, and he was named for Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (founding father of the Republic of Turkey). Ethnically, he was Arab. While Kasem himself was born in Detroit, both his parents were from Lebanon and had immigrated to the US in the 1930s.He was a dedicated vegan, a champion of animal rights and environmentalism, and an active supporter of Arab-American relations. There are absolutely no stories about him ever being anything other than a good person.So...care to explain this? If you're right and race is everything and thus it is impossible to live alongside members of other races, then Kasem shouldn't have been capable of integrating as comfortably into America as he did. He certainly shouldn't have risen to the point of pop culture icon for achievements completely unrelated to his race, like American Top 40 or VA'ing for Shaggy.
>>93919049Welcome to 4chan, we have different boards with different cultures. /b/'s hayday was over before /tg/ was made. /tg/'s hayday ended shortly after gamergate. You're welcome. Now go.
>>93919084>America>whiteChoose one
>>93919097>Now go.No. Untill you will act like less of a fag. Getting offended by literally everything.
>>93919106I choose whichever one doesn't have you talkin' shit about Casey Kasem.
>>93919106America is the most powerful country in the world and has created some of the highest standards of living in human history (especially during and after the progressive era, which was a multi-racial multi-cultural backlash against rich dickwads and their policies). Saying that America isn't white is conceding anon's point. Intelligent creatures can achieve great things by working together.
>>93919122>named after ataturk (father of modern turkey)>pro-arabLol
>>93919013>inhumane and incomprehensible alien monsters hell-bent on destroying humanity by any means possible>Oh you must be talking about jews, you racist white chud!And the mask is off...
>>93919136Ah that's why detroid exists and you nearly kill yourself over different opinions. Or during elections or during anything.
>>93919145Casey Kasem was, in fact, famously pro-Arab. I note you're deflecting rather than actually addressing my challenge. If it is impossible for members of two races to live side-by-side, then how did Casey Kasem find so much personal success in America despite being Arab?
>>93919176Arabs are white. Even if you don't like it.
>>93919151NTA, >>93918164 literally started talking about SomaliaWe all know why you think that way and where your beliefs liePlease do the world a favor and simply stop
>>93919187>Arabs are whiteI defy you to get away with claiming that at a Klan rally.
>>93919193Why should he stop? Because he had wrong opinion according to you?
>>93919202>klan rally Nah they are americans they aren't intelligent enough to understand basic math.
>>93919217Yes, simply as
>>93919227I defy you to say it at a meeting of Alternative für Deutschland and see if you get any better results than you would at the Klan rally.
>>93919259>Alternative für DeutschlandYou mean the people that shill for turks?
>>93919151Didn't happen.
>>93919558Neither did your mom ever habe sex with your dad
>>93919097Somebody really needs to invent a time machine so that we can go back to 2008.
>>93919771I'd say 2004 but that's my weirdness for tge technology of that time.
>>93917858You people are all the same. You are incapable of introspection, and subsist off of scapegoats and create problems if there are none to push yourself to the top of your own self perceived victim olympics with internalized revenge fantasies.
>>93920479Putting "smart" words together won't make you look smart
>>93920510you no smart too lol but me am smart
>>93920517Me gruk big brain because me gruk kill your mom and eat her flesh
>>93920510You considering those words to be especially "smart" says a lot more about you than anything else.
>>93921646It's says more about you actually. And if you actually believe I see those words as "smart" despite it being in quotation marks which means it's not actually smart. Do you genuinely understand english motherfucker.Or do you want to argue because you are addicted to arguing on internet. Which I get, I'm addicted to arguing.
