So, about brother Titus again... Now that events in Space Marine game are officialy canon, when exactly the Graia invasion took place? Titus met some Blood Ravens during the events of first game and mentions Aurelia campaign. So the whole DOW plot had to take place before Sicarius Cato became a captain of 2nd Company, correct? Is there anything that contradicts it? We know that events in Aurelia system took place after Leviathan popped in galaxy...
bump
>>93903004Sicarius becomes captain some time around 849, the present events happen some time after 999 M41, with the plague wars beginning in 012 M42. Titus is supposedly away for around 200 years, so it checks out. Sicarius then goes missing, and presumably thats where the next captain steps in. There are three aurelian crusades, they all happen at an unspecified time in late M41. Leviathan supposedly arrives in 997 M41, which means anything involving leviathan in the old lore happens in only the 3 years between it arriving and Guilliman returning. So that doesnt make very much sense.
>>93907834...anon Titus was Captain BEFORE Sicarius
>>93908156Yes, thats what i am saying, do you not have reading comprehension skills. If titus has to be captain before sicarius, then it needs to fit into the timeline, which it does, but sicarius captain works with leviathan/aurelian crusade in the timeline, titan doesnt. Originally titus was meant to be set in an alternate timeline where he became captain instead of sicarius.
>>93909408*titus
>>93903004If I recall, GW said Titus was made a Sargent after the First Tyrannic War so I think that still lines up.
Titus got so popular that they made him canonApparently some book mentions titus in passing
>>93907834Space marine 1 was before rowboat girlyman realized the imperial timekeeping system was inconsistent.Space Marine 2 happened after the fix.All events in-between can be handwaved as timekeeping disrepancies in a world where dudes screaming at each other with their mind is the best form of long-distance communication humanity has
>>93903004This isn't the video games board, dickhead
>>93917436It's not about the game but about 40k LORE, dumbass.
>>93903004It doesn't make sense, at all.Titus as captain of second company commanded UM during Graia invasion, Graia Invasion was after aurelian crusades, first Aurelian Crusade started after battle of Tarsis Ultra(half of 999.M41) at this time Sicarius was captain of second company, fought on Damnos. He couldn't be captain after Sicarius went MIA because it happened after Guilliman and Primaris and he got replaced by current captain who is in SM2.We also know that it couldn't be before that because before Battle of Maccrage Sicarius was captain of 5th company, second company was commanded by Agemman(who got command of first after Maccrage when Invictus alongside his entire company died). Since Agemman got from second to first then someone had to command 2nd(3rd most important position in chpater) and there was no captain Titus in any company, so it make sense that Sicarius OR ANY OTHER CAPTAIN would replace him. Also we know that by 849.M41 Sicarius was 100% 2nd company captain. If you consider that Titus was gone for 100 years by that time Sicarius was well established as 2nd company captain.Not to mention Graia in game is not same Graia from lore, it don't have Crown, defining feature of Forge World Graia.Fans tried to tie up Space Marine game to lore somehow but it always ended in failure, explanation that made most sense was making Titus as commander of Ultramarines Honour Company, formation of Ultramarines and successors stationed near Eye of Terror, only problem Graia wasn't even in same Segmentum as Eye fo Terror so he had no buisness being there. And even in new rectonned article about him math don't add up.It's a fucking shitshow but that's nothing new in 40k
>>93903004>>93918494They spelled it out in one of the latest Whit Dwarf magazines. Whatever old contradictions might have existed, this one should overrule them as being the newest source of information.>but offhand comment X in the first game impliedIrrelevant. They made up their mind and the old stuff is invalid now
>>93917882It's called fluff, newfag.
>>93918537Well at least Titus wasn't changed into female.
>>93918537>Leandros jobbed to eldarImagine my shock.
Isn't second company of Ultramarines second only to first company in terms of experience and lethality? Shouldn't their members be experienced veterans of hundreds battlefields with numerous foes, including Tyranids? or primaris fluff ruined that too? I mean, how come Titus SM buddies are (again - talking to you Leandros) newbies? God I hate prmiaris fluff so much it's unbearable.
>>93920509Iirc in the old lore the battle companies were all roughly equal in terms of experience, but in some chapters the captaincies have different levels of prestige. Sicarius lost half the company on damnos in 974, then presumably suffered more casualties in honsou's invasion in 999 (where the chapter lost 400) and then the black legion invasion, *and* then got lost in the warp and lost most of his command. Presumably the 2nd company was low on experienced members in 999 and was likely rebuilt from scratch after sicarius vanished. Titus, at 375, is probably one of the oldest in the chapter now. 1st company and the honour guard were half wiped by m'kar, 4th company lost all but 18 on tarsis ultra in 997 (but was somehow back up to 100 when uriel returned), 5th lost half to honsou. The attrition rate is crazy when you think about it.
>>93921433>and was likely rebuilt from scratch after sicarius vanishedBut 6th-9th reserve companies should be fresh, as they aren't considered battle companies - and recruits from battle companies should go from scout (10th company), through all reserve companies (to learn every aspect of war as devastator, assault marine and tactical marine) - to finally reach 6th company and be ready to join one of the battle companies? In other words - any marine in battle company is an experienced marine - and 2nd company form elite of those as Guardians of the Temple. meanwhile we keep seeing inexperienced marines in movies and games - for example "Ulramarines" (official GW) movie and SM1 and SM2 games. Then we get pics like this, where they say new primaris marines need to PROVE themselves, which indicates inexperienced marines. Fucking mess.
>>93920509If you compare the classic 5th edition roster, with the command squad, chaplain Trajan, then Manorian, Fennion, Octavian, Solinus, Vandar, Vorolanus, Ixion, Strabo, Atavian, and Tirian. Plus two dreadnoughts. Then they get a half-company of primaris bringing them up to around 155. When they're in the warp, Trajan dies, Tirian and Manorian's squads die, >>93921618As i said, 6th-9th were not fresh at all, as they were also involved in both invasions, and already had to replace heavy casualties from 2nd and 4th (damnos/tarsis), not to mention rotation to the battle companies after both honsou's (400 dead) and the black legion's (??? dead) invasions, also from 2nd/3rd/4th/5th to 1st. Damnos also managed to take out a lot of the tank crews. In the 30 years before guilliman's ressurection the chapter lost at least 570 existing members-mostly from the honour guard, battle and 1st companies, and it had lost its entire 1st company, most of the 3rd and 7th, and heavy casualties from the rest 55 years beforehand to the tyranids, among others. Its likely that most of the chapter was pretty young at the time of guilliman, and that the 2nd at the time largely was relatively recent reserve transfers, but then the entire 2nd gets lost in the warp, there were lots of new primaris and probably very few reserve company left with much experience, it makes sense that its all newbies, you cant lose >1000 marines in the span of 55 years and still have lots of >50 year old marines running around outside of the 1st company/officers. Titus is probably the oldest in the new 2nd company, probably older than most of 1st company.
>>93922285*ignore that first part, still trying to work out when everyone dies, but point is that the entire 2nd company gets fucked in the warp and theres pretty much nobody left aside from sicarus and a handful of others.
>>93918537>Cato Sicarius felt he had been overlookedSomehow this sounds hilariously funny to me.
>>93903004>Now that events in Space Marine game are officialy canon>NowI don't know where you retards got this idea from but I keep seeing it everywhere. So let me let the record straight: GW's official stance is that EVERYTHING that is an official GW product is canon. Everything.>But that doesn't make sense!Shut the fuck up. Doesn't fucking matter. GW even used to make subtle (by GW standards) points in the rulebooks and codices about how record keeping is so fucked and warp travel being so weird that it explained most things you might see as 'contradictions'.Titus was always canon.
>>93921433Loss numbers never made sense
>>93925554GW consistency with timeline was so bad that they removed timeline completly. Now things just happen.Even when they removed dates they still fucked up timeline. Warp fuckery is just 8th ed fluff reason for removing dates, but it alredy happened in 7th ed. Now there is no timeline barely any fluff just shitty rules andbare minimum so consoomers if they want any fluff must read wiki or loretubers just as james intended.
>>93917882Is that why you're exclusively discussing characters and events mentioned by a fucking VIDEO GAME, you gormless piece of anal mucus?
>>93903004>So, about brother Titus again... Now that events in Space Marine game are officialy canon, when exactly the Graia invasion took place? Titus met some Blood Ravens during the events of first game and mentions Aurelia campaign. So the whole DOW plot had to take place before Sicarius Cato became a captain of 2nd Company, correct? Is there anything that contradicts it? We know that events in Aurelia system took place after Leviathan popped in galaxy...This is Nick kyme's fault. These idiots forgot about the ultramarine honor company, which have the same color as ultras of the 2nd. If they had made titus a captain of that company then there wouldnt be any timeline problems. This is what happens when people dont do their fucking homework. It also makes the universe feel smaller.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB08UXuXLho
>>93925823There would be problem of specialised force made to patrol Eye of Terror and Cadian Gate deploying itself on other end of galaxy when their only purpose is patroling and protecting cadian Gate.They could just use diferent company without named captain with model and story.
>>93903004>>93907834Titus has 4 identical service studs, studs represent different spans of time, but we know he was imprisoned for a century, and served with the Deathwatch for another, the studs are identical and he went from 2 to 4, so that means each one represents 100 years. There are native born Cadians in SM2 (as noted by their purple eyes) and non native, so it's after the 13th Black Crusade, to SM2 takes place no more than 200 years after the call of Cadia. Which means Lieutenant Mira likely got to experience becoming a daemon's fleshlight on her home world about 2 minutes before she died.
>>93925841No. Because they lost the war of the eye of terror so there is no point of patroling there and besides they needed to recruit numbers. Their role is to do the job at the other side of the galaxy. Either way this would have solved every single problem but I find pitiful and ridiculous that the so called ultramarine fans that work at GW completely forgot about them... fucking pathetic.
>>93918543You're the fluffer of your gay boyfriend
>>93926015Anon during time when Space Marine was released war around Eye and on Cadia was still in full swing, this is where only mention of UM honour company came from, from Eye of Terror WD article. They were actively in combat against 13th Black Crusade and before that(Graia and stuff) they were patroling Gate. They don't recruit they just take marines from UM and successor chapters. Theor only job and reason for existence was patroling Eye, now they either no longer have reason to exist and just returned to parent chapters or are still fighting chaos around Eye. Read the article anon before spewing nonsense.If you want Titus to make sense just make him captain of 5th or 3rd company, no one cares about their captains.>I find pitiful and ridiculous that the so called ultramarine fans that work at GW completely forgot about themAnd you wouldn't know it without loretuber and he wouldn't know about them without wiki because honour company is only mentioned in WD article during Eye of Terror alongside multiple other chapters.
>>93926095>Read the article anon before spewing nonsense.I have the article retard. As a matter of fact SM1 was taking place AFTER the eye of terror campaign. We know this because Titus mentions the Aurelian crusade which took place AFTER the eye of terror campaign due to wargear description in DOW2. 2nd. Why the fuck would you disband an elite force rather than reasign them? 3rd. why the fuck did you asume that I wasd meaning that they would have traditional recruitment duties? retard... do you have any idea how many ultramarine succesors are across the galaxy?>>93926095>If you want Titus to make sense just make him captain of 5th or 3rd company, no one cares about their captains.No because the only guys with gold trim are 2nd company and Honor company.>>93926095>And you wouldn't know it without loretuberBitch I still have my codex eye of terror and that very white dwarf where the article came in. And where they where first mentioned, All you are doing is sperging nonesense and putting words in my mouth with a lot of innacurate suppositions and looking like an unhinged retard.
>>93926137>Why the fuck would you disband an elite force rather than reasign them?Because it's bunch of ultramarines and successors with single task and if they can't do this task you might return them to baattle companies because 999.M41 was not a good year to any space marine chapter and you want your marines back.>AFTER the eye of terror campaignAnd Eye of Terror ended in stalemate so you still need to fight around Eye and defend Cadian gate. So they are still needed. And if there is no Cadian Gate they are no longer needed and Honour Company just have no buisness existing without gate. Their entire thing is protection of Cadian Gate they have no buisness fighting on border of Segmentum Ultima as far away from sector their protect as possible.>No because the only guys with gold trim are 2nd company and Honor companyThen just repaint trim, most retarded modder can do that. Not to mention it would be better to make him sergant he is commanding 2 other dudes either way and didn't do any captain duties entire game.Titus as part of Honour Company make no sense and have no buisness being on edge of Segmentum Ultima instead near Cadian Gate.>why the fuck did you asume that I wasd meaning that they would have traditional recruitment duties?Because you mentioned recruitment?Why are you so angry anon? Titus as part of Honour Company who's sole puprose of existence is Cadian Gate being deployed on border of galaxy just make no sense, if invasion was on Agripinaa then Honour Company presence would be 100% justified.
>>93903004SM1, Graia and Titus being official canon are fresh retcons and are impossible to fit existing timeline. That said, linking SM1 -> DOW2 -> Leviathan is based on what, ONE LINE from Titus? Honestly it is quite obscure little detail (although well known by fans).Dont remember anything else from SM1 that dates it even 750+m41. So I kinda understand why GW wants to forget it or did not remember it in the first place. The canonity of Blood Raven stories in DOW in general is also other issue that GW might not have wanted to touch here. Still some kind of inlore explanation of "records being redacted tegarding titus due to the shame" could have helped the situation.>>93918537 is cute attempt though. Liking how it throws a middle finger to Leandros and Sicarius.One thing: there isnt any mention of LTN Mira is SM2? Kinda impressed that devs had the guts. It honestly makes total sence given the centuries but I would assumed that devs would have sneaked in a memoir written by her or that the lead cadian HQ is her granddaugher or such. But it seems that Mira will not be missed?
>>93926304At least they put in the space wolf from rogue trader
>>93926320Who and where?
>>93926320Two different voice actors.
>>93925554Yes but the approach was that this was due to time fuckery or differing accounts, relic said that Titus was captain in an *alternate* timeline where he became captain instead of Sicarius. He was also originally intended to found his own chapter. 2nd game retconned this to being in the same timeline as sicarius being captain.>>93925862He's stated to be 175 in the first game, and spent 100 years with the inquisition, then 100 years with the deathwatch. So if we take 849 (sicarius) as the date when Graia happens, then the events of 2 take place in M42.049.>>93926137From a logical POV it makes more sense to just retcon that remark from Titus (from back when this was an alternate timeline), and replace the Aurelian crusade with the Karuva (soulstorm), Tartarus (1st game), or Kronus (Dark Crusade) campaigns. DOW2's input doesnt make sense anymore as its after leviathan (997), but before the 13th black crusade (999), and while titus is captain (which now has to be before 849).
>>93926685>it makes more senseLets not go there. Tis a silly place.
>>93926398Ulfar in the prologue.>>93926425Same voice actor, but could be just a coincidence
Did Titus ever get to meet his primarch, Girlyman?
>>93917882>/tg/ - Lore
>>93926937>Same voice actorhttps://www.imdb.com/title/tt30334760/fullcredits/https://www.imdb.com/title/tt29866105/fullcredits/Nah, they're different people.
>>93926946Not yet, though it could be sick as hell if he did.
>>93903004>DoW1 + Expansions>DoW2 + Expansions>Space Marine 1, Titus is taken prisoner by Thrax>Sicarius becomes captain in Titus' place (This was confirmed)>Titus is freed and joins Deathwatch. Hope we see his DW shenanigans one day (never ever because GW hates Deathwatch now)>Nuhammer begins. Sicarius iirc becomes an Honor Guard while the Scottish guy in SM2 takes over the 2nd.>Space Marine 2. (You) are here.
>>93926685DOW happens AFTER the dark crusade. All this time fuckery ik Kyme’s incompetence for not doing basic research.
>>93918537This causes more problems. Space Marine 1 was written under the assumption that Titus was a null. The writers themselves, after Space Marine 2 was first cancelled at THQ, came out and revealed the rest of the story - the Inquisitor discovers that he is a null, and he stays to serve with Deathwatch. The current Space Marine 2 depicts Titus at the end of his Deathwatch service, where he instead served as a Blackshield (and against the wishes of Calgar). Game Workshop's description of events and Space Marine 2's description of events both clash heavily with what the original writers stated plainly. If the crucial building blocks for the story of Space Marine 1 have been retconned, then it's safe to assume that none of the games are canon, and that the canon Titus is not the same Titus that appears in the games. The games would thus only be based on the actual fluff, not the true story itself.
>>93926937>Ulfar in the prologueAccording to Owlcat, it's not the same person. Altough it would be cool if he was.
>>93928525Male nulls don't exist, C'tan have never been anything but space pokemon and Necrons have always been Tomb Kangs in SPESS. Any good lore regarding them is now redacted
>>93928776See >>93927012
>>93928871>https://www.imdb.com/title/tt29866105/fullcredits/I never doubted they were different actors, anon. I'm just saying that Ulfar from SM2 is not the same marine as Ulfar from Rogue Trader according to Owlcat. Like I said - shame, I like the idea of characters being shared by three biggest games in wh40k universe.
>>93918494Wrong about graia btw, the boltgun boomer shooter takes place on graia as a direct sequel to SM1 and the last third of the game is a chaos assault on the crown
>>93928929It's not the same person in all regards.>Like I said - shame, I like the idea of characters being shared by three biggest games in wh40k universe.Really isn't. The time difference makes it less probable and the way SM2 jobs them would make it a shite end after what happened in RT. It's a shite end even without that.
>>93927115Forgot about Boltgun being between SM1 and 2. My bad.
>>93935129>Forgot about Boltgun being between SM1 and 2BOLTGUN!
