At some point the anecdotes about DMPCs and cringe tryhard NPCs got to me. I have no clue how to make an NPC with the intention of having characters like them or being popular in their fielg/town/whatever. I can make comedy NPCs and play into archetypes, but I've given up on a lot of scenarios that would include someone who is generally liked because I'm afraid it'll just be cringe, like I'm making up a world where I'm popular. If they turn out to be idiots, or overconfident to the point of ridicule, or some old dude that is revered more for his age than anything they are doing right now it works. People being liked at the moment? Those don't exist when I DM. And I think that's a failure on my part that I should improve. I'm open to any idea or anecdote.
Do you mean "liked" as in they have a likeable personality, or in the sense that your players will like them because of their addition to the campaign? In both cases it largely depends on what your players like themselves. It can help to have said characters have an extroverted, easygoing personality. Think someone you'd like to hand around with: you want to have a fun night while drinking a beer? You call that guy, because he's going to be good company. Such a character doesn't necessarily need to try being funny, that can soon lead to players rolling eyes when you don't handle it well; he can end up being funny taking things straight. And he doesn't even need to be powerful and do everything himself, just have your players know that, when they need him, he'll be there.
Stop trying to decide how your players will feel. Just make characters and see how your players react.
>>93909532Don't assume implications.NPCs are made under certain archetypes and functions, not being able to make whole social roles limits the options and eventually players get used to every faction or town having the same type of people everywhere
>>93909386The most important thing is that the NPC have absolutely nothing that outclasses any individual PCs' best ability. The second most important thing is that they are humble.
>>93909925Why does their function depend on whether the players like them or not?
>>93909976it doesn't, they are free to hate or ignore them completely.But I can only make a cool guy if the point is to hate or mock him, if I think of a dude that is good at his job and people generally like him I feel like I'm doing a gary stu self insert. I could never even try doing a Kamina like >>93909452So whenever there is some competent person doing something okay it's either an old man that barely cares about shit or it's a bafoon failing into success or something like that. I want to be able to have a faction where people are cool guys and it's fun being there without being a comedy.>inb4 then just do thatif you wanted to answer that then you're just not getting the issue and you're a horse telling a fish to just go and breath air.
>>93910062>I can only make a cool guy if the point is to hate or mock himI don't want to sound an asshole anon, know that I'm saying this in a neutral-to-friendly way, but this seems more a (You) problem.
>>93910104yes, that's why I'm asking advice. You don't see people asking advice for things that aren't an issue for them.
>>93910062>if I think of a dude that is good at his job and people generally like him I feel like I'm doing a gary stu self insertThen try therapy. You want help getting over your insecurities, not portraying a certain kind of character.
>>93910118That's laudable, but the key factor you have to consider is that you have to go out of your comfort zone to change the current situation. So in this case, yes, you are the fish, but you need to learn how to breathe air.We can give you advice, but you're saying you couldn't even try following it. Understand that there's precious little we can do at this point.
>>93909386>>93910062Sounds to me like your friends make roleplaying cringey and awkward. Some tables aren't there for deep roleplaying and they might have other strengths (or maybe your players suck, idk). Here's how to deal with that: stop introducing NPCs. Stop trying to portray them. Narrate things from a distance. So maybe you think Brunhilda the potion-seller is a hilarious, quirky character, but your players just want to shell out their money and get back to the dungeon? Fine, Brunhilda is still there and totally canon, just don't even mention her unless the players show interest, perhaps with questions like "just who are we buying potions from?" or "can I charm my way into a discount?" Move the story along at a brisk clip and don't offer personalities unless the players want to know more. "You were summoned into the presence of the Count and offered more money than..." "An old sage told you..." "You cross paths with a strong band of elves who offered to tell you the lay of the land in exchange for 30 gold, did you take the offer?" etc.
>>93909386just don't steal the player's spotlight, nevereverything else is a no brainer
>>93909386What system?
>>93910754why would the system matter when making NPCs? This is a DM advice thread.
>>93910784>why would the system matter>DM advice thread.Thanks for stating what system. I'm out.
>>93909386>Roll random character traits>Boisterous and friendly, wants to help the party>Is a local community pillar and general swell guy>"I don't trust this guy.">Stoic to the point of robotic, callous, calculating, literally lives under a bridge and dresses like a hobo>Openly involved in criminal underground, implied organ harvester>"Finally a stand up vendor."Make characters, let chips fall where they may.
>>93911399do you have NPC tables you recommend?
>>93909386Just think of a cool uncle or whatever else you've had around. You know, people who are well liked. Mary Sue characters are characters who are author inserts. They're disliked because they're dishonest, and they take time away from what should be the focal point.
>>93909386That mangsa is awesome.I fucking love Tsutomo Nihei.As for the question, I think it's less about the character archetype and more how you play them, although having am interesting aspect or another to it sure helps.Also, what >>93911399 said.
>>93909386Listen, just make every major NPC a DMPC, even a BBEG. You see, the good NPC is an NPC you as a GM want to role-play and be sincere about it. A cool and unapologetically-wish-fulfillment NPC is always an interesting enemy to overcome, a villain you love to hate, a person to befriend, a master to look forward to, a love interest to conquer, or a mystery to explore as a part of a quest.I know you may hear contrary advice since the TTRPG community is a cesspool. But you need to understand that it originates from the brain rot of D&D-fags that just want nothing but a power trip, and they are all fans of Reddit horror-stories about how GM (and his girlfriend of course) steal the spotlight from poor players.
>>93911432Whichever system you are playing probably has one, use that one. I use one from whichever system I am currently running, and any from any other systems I've run. The example is Cyberpunk Red, but any would have done, because ultimately rolltables are there to inspire you. If my life depended on it I would recommend the Cities Without Numbers rolltables, which are very extensive; I assume the other games in that series have similarly exhaustive tables.Don't get hung up on the details. One time I rolled on a table and decided the character was the exact opposite of what I rolled.
>>93912106>That mangsa is awesome.>I fucking love Tsutomo Nihei.It's funny that it took him two great and huge international hits to learn how to draw a pleasing human-like face. I like what he's doing with Tower Dungeon.>>93912563I 100% don't agree with thisI'm glad it works for you, I'm not judging, but a lot of people have like 3 solid three dimensional characters in them and after a while you totally notice everyone is a variant of those 3 characters.>>93912651yeah, it's just inspiration, but I like finding tables that take consideration I wouldn't have. Stuff like Uranium Butterflies that won't fit into most settings but is still evocative.
>>93909386The most important part of avoiding DMPCs is to make sure they don't overstay their welcome. If the npc is forced on the party or carries them through more than one encounter they'll become a DMPC, but if they make appearances very rarely or only once nobody really minds seeing them. They should only steal the spotlight if absolutely necessary for the narrative
>>93910118>>93909532 is right, stop fucking overthinking it and just make lots of different kinds of NPCs. If it turns out they are cringe, you can prune them and replace, if the players like them and you like playing them, they stick around.A GMPC is a very specific thing. It is a PC played the game master. If you aren't making a character trying to wedge it into the group, you aren't making a gmpc.
>>93917092To follow up on this, players forget the stuff that didn't work and remember the stuff that did. They aren't going to remember the bad characters a session later. This is just how it works.
Consider that not every DM can do any NPC, same way an actor can play every role or a writer can't write every genre. If you find that comedy works better for you and your players are laughing then that's good enough, a lot of DMs try to do comedy when they suck at it. You can double down running Paranoia or just focus on light hearted adventures.
>>93910784Because NPC construction and role varies wildly from system to system, nogames.
>>93917102nuuu !! my npc character have to all be epic and wayyyy more interesting than the player characters
>>93909386I play a lot with speech impediments. It's easy to do, it's easy to remember, it triggers an emotional reaction. The inept good guy, the inept bad guy, the subversion of those tropes - every version is time-honored, recognisable and working well.Otherwise I use what I know my players are familiar with from current media and twist it sightly. For example the tired but competent and and good-natured bureucrat who's a bit of a stickler for the rules but not callous, be it a planetary governor, tech-priest or ecclesiast, was a perennial favourite in 40k, because everyone always expected the opposite and people like pleasant surprises.
