>>93924281
Most people blame Matt Ward. Maybe a few of them actually do blame him, but the rest are just repeating memes.
Me? Why do I dislike them?
I just really don't like the color blue very much.

>>93924281
Mostly because they were wanked to hell and back during the Ward era and the reputation stuck. New players wouldn't remember that, so if they're screeching about it, they're just recalling memes they've heard. Otherwise, it's probably because they're so vanilla and the posterboys.

>>93924281
Other than the Matt Ward incident, they're just overdone. I kind of like the idea of beleaguered Romaboo semi-moralfags who aren't constantly fucked over like the Salamanders or Lamentors, but anyone who paints up Ultramarines is suspected of being a tourist.

>>93924281
>After 10,000 years they're still among the top chapters with pure power in regards. Their drip is beyond measure. They're just good at everything they do. And look GREAT doing it.
Yeah, and being generically good with no real flaws makes them boring. It's likely intentional, since they're meant to be Space Marines™, and so they have to be bland enough to just get across the basic idea of what a space marine is. Even their design is bland.
Which, ironically, makes it really grating for fans of other chapters to see the one they care about the least get the most attention.
Incidentally, I feel Black Legion occupies a similar niche of Chaos Space Marines™ on chaos' side, and that's probably why they have few fans despite often being used as the face of chaos as a faction.
Of course, space marine fans can only imagine a fraction of the hatred of anyone who's a fan of another imperium faction in 40k.

>>93924281
Most of people don't like basic bitches with no personality
Even less people likes overwanked basic bitches

>>93924281
they became the main character marines to an overly large degree
and while it's okay to have a frontliner, there's a bunch of interesting and more nuanced SM chapters that don't get nearly enough of the spotlight

>>93924281
Don't dislike them, I just wish there were more books on other chapters

They should be the mix of space marines and Romans, but they came out bland thanks to GWs writing.
So it's really a combination of them not being as interesting as the other legions, and people hating on them simply because they are the "mainstream" legion, being the corporate face for anything Space Marines or 40k

>>93924281
You just listed all the reasons, they're mary sues

>>93924281
Still the aftermath of the disgusting Matt ward codex.
People would like them more if GW gave them the BT/DA treatment, i.e. release a few dedicated units for them and not just an upgrade sprue.

>>93924928
If GW wants to boost Ultramarines popularity they need to change the posterboy marines to another chapter. Maybe let the Raven Guard the "main" chapter for 1-2 editions and at the same time, give the ultramarines some an interesting novel series in which they don't automatically win without bigger challenges. They need some kind of flaw or drawback to become more than just boring blue vanilla marines.

>>93925630
Wouldn't that create a new problem where they piss people off because everyone's gonna be like "why are the ultramarines so weak now"?

>>93924281
They get a lot of attention and work despite being the least distinct and interesting chapter.
Since they're mean to be the "default marines" for anyone entering 40k, they have to remain a bit non-distinct. Which is a shame because they would be a lot more interesting at least hobby-wise ifthey went all in with the pseudo-roman theme with upgrade kits and the like.
It's telling that GW itself considers stock marine boxes to be Ultramarine boxes.
>>93924928
Not really, maybe because the character tie-in isn't as annoyingly important (Abaddon's crusades all fail ; Guilliman coming back in a galaxy-changing event) and because CSM isn't marketed as "Black Legion but you can paint them differently I guess". It feelsa lot more like " here's the easier paintjob, you prine everything black and try to deal with the trim"

>>93925726
>Abaddon's crusades all fail
Where is this meme even from? Crusades goal was never stated, only 13th is meant to fuck Terra up, other had diferent goals like 12th securing Blackstone Fortresses and usually in fluff crusades were stated as "some big battle Abaddon won here", and this was before 6th ed supplement gave short description of what happened during each crusade.
I know that Abaddon being armless came from fact that his old metal model had too heavy hands and they were falling off.

>>93925726
I meant Black Legion suffer from blandness.
Other chaos factions get to be interesting, with complex quirks and histories and feuds. Especially when it comes the single god legions, but even other undivided legions get something neat.
Black Legion is just Chaos™. There's just not much to say about them other than "Horus was pretty neat, but he's irrevocably super dead so who gives a fuck."

>>93925866
>the objective of the first 12 crusades was testing cadia's defense and hence successful
Cope all you want, you'll never grow arms.

I enjoy them when they're played straight laced and when they're in brighter blue/yellow/red heraldry.

>>93924281

Because the Ultramarines have a surfeit of 2nd founding chapters, and you can just play them instead.

>>93930038
Almost all of previous 12 crusades weren't even targeting Cadian gate retard.
First Crusade described in detail, 12th Black Crusade aka Gothic War never touched Cadian Gate and took place in diferent segmentum. So far only 13th Black Crusade targeted Cadia and it was chaos victory. Also Calgar was beaten by this armless guy.

>>93930216
Holy mother of revisionism. Forces of Chaos more like Forces of Copium.

>>93930251
Anon 12th Black Crusade was described in detail iirc in 1998 in Battlefleet Gothic and it took place in diferent segmentum than Cadia. Only 13th Black Crusade was pointed at Cadia and Cadia no longer stands.

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>>93924281
>baseline good guy from whom others are derived and defined by how they differ from him, is not overly popular with a lot of fans.
Happens all the time.

>>93924281
It's because aside from "generalist strategic geniuses who can excel in any environment" and "Romans in space" they're depicted as "DA BEST SPEHSS MUHREENS EVAR!1!!1" by GW a lot of the time
The only ones that should get the "best spehs muhreen" characterization are the Luna Wolves pre and even post heresy, it'd highlight just how bad the event was.

>>93930640
You're saying SUPERMAN is not overly popular? I can see why you might think that considering he hasn't had a good movie in over 40 years, but nobody would say the actual Superman comics are unpopular. They are still some of DC's best selling comics to this day.

>>93924281
>Their drip
8t edition was your first edition, your opinion doesn't count.

Ultramarines are deep
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfhH4dgfqiM

>>93924281
You missed the general.

>>93925182
exactly the opposite, basic white bread factions are the most popular. it's why almost every big franchise out there (40K, Warcraft, Warmachine, etc) has the blue smurf / olive american faction that serves as the absolute average. same with White Male Human Fighter and dogshit isekai protagonists.
average consumer wants to play completely generic characters and let the game world wash over them passively, basically. underwater basket weaving hyperconsumers are outliers, not the rule.

what would you call that, actually? hyperconsumer is the best word I've got but it doesn't sound right. the kind of person that's watched, read and played so much media that they've developed an almost insurmountable tolerance, like an addict's brain.

>>93924281
bootlicking bore

>>93924281
when most people see clear favoritism, they lose interest in the favorite. the opposite response is usually people that like them for things everyone else finds cloying and overwrought

>>93930640
>posts literally the most beloved super hero of all time

>>93924281
Only fags who are into 40k solely through memes, 1d4chan, or 'loretubers' (aka secondaries) bother to hate on ultramarines.

>>93924281
>ultra marines
>clearly a joke
>but also portrayed as possibly the most serious, humorless faction
You'd think this would work, but it doesn't.

>>93939404
The only thing not working here is you on your art.

>>93939322
>1d4chan
It's dead son, we 1d6chan now

>>93939721
>the pro-tranny censorship version
yeah nah

>>93943445
wut

>>93945331
/pol/tard schizo post, just ignore it.

>>93947025
They literally, proudly announced they were going to cut the "outdated, misogynist and transphobic humor of past /tg/", nice try faggot.

>>93947411
wut

>>93924281
I don't dislike them, but only recently were they anything but the boring, flavorless baseline, every chapter was better that they are.

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>>93947025
>>93948114
That anon might be a /pol/tard, but he's not a schizo. They've been purging objectionable content from 1d6chan since it launched.

>>93948388
>if you say an uncomfortable truth I don't like hearing you're a /pol/tard!
Why do the biggest faggots always resort to this at the drop of a pin?

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>>93924281
9th ed newfag here. I was told to steer clear of them and learn about all the other cool chapters. I did, and then I decided UM still has my favorite characters and aesthetic. Being an Enlightened UM Enjoyer is paradise, unlimited catering to you by GW and now we have three great vidya as well.

>>93948388
GAAAAAAAAAAAAY

>>93948470
>three great vidya
Which ones?

>>93924281
They're like vanilla ice cream: an excellent flavor, but so ubiquitous that it's become mundane and possibly even annoying. And since it's become the default, people begin to despise it due to how little attention is paid to the many great niche flavors which exist.

FOOD METAPHORS GOOD.

>>93948388
>objectionable content
Just an FYI for the thread but this means loli.

>>93949721
Food metaphors are thin, sort of stretched, like butter that has been scraped over too much bread.

>>93931830
>40K
>big franchise

>>93931830
>it's why almost every big franchise out there (40K, Warcraft, Warmachine, etc) has the blue smurf / olive american faction
Seems more like Warcraft-Warhammer (Warmachine is irrelevant) thing.
Star Wars: Rebels colours are warm grey/ivory and red in contrast with Imperial cold white/black and crimson/blue
Dune: Atreidis red, green and black, while Harkonen are deep blue and brick red
LOTR: only some elves and Dol Amroth

>>93924281
When they are competent Space Romans using sensible tactics and proper implementation of logistics during warfare I love them. That good mix of Roman Aesthetic mixed them the tropes of being generalists and pragmatists.

However GW moved in the direction of "Best Marines ever at everything" and that completely sucks.

Depending on the player and Ultramarine fan I either love them or hate them depending on the interpretation that hobbyist has put into the flavor of his army.

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>>93924281

I do collect Ultramarines dead on my bases

>>93949721
heh, ice cream boys.

>>93950815
Prove it.

>>93924281
Because just like Space Wolves, they arent used right. Space Wolves are supposed to be vikings in Space and are depicted as Wolf, Wolf, Wolf, Wolf. Ultras are supposed to be depicted as romans in space yet are depicted as generic "Honor and Courage" good guys. Whats roman about them in how GW uses them?

>>93924281
blue is lame. its probably the most lame colour actually. yes i would even prefer pink armor, at least its got personality. somehow even white is less boring too.

>>93951626
Pink is already taken by the Noise Marines.

>>93924281
>every chapter is flawed in some manner because they are human
>Ultramarines aren't flawed in any way or shape despite being the poster boys for the codex astartes which is an inflexible doctrine that really should get them fucked over
They are just boring.

>>93950261
>However GW moved in the direction of "Best Marines ever at everything" and that completely sucks.
They did it in 2nd edition in 1993, directly stating that Ultramarines are greatest of them all, source marine codex with title Codex Ultramarines, because in 2nd ed they pretended even less than Matt Ward and straight up named SM codex as UM codex.
It's funny how warhammer fans have no idea of their ow setting they proclame know and love, no wonder GW can not bothering with canon, internal consistency and recton everything, fans will gaslight themselves into liking it anyway.

>>93924281
because they're fucking boring

They're less cool Salamanders

>>93924281
Kinda like cheering on the yankees. They are THE Space Marine. They take up all the space for exploring other chapters and are literally called ULTRAmarines. They're boring, nothing special, the base format of marines.
I don't hate them, I just find them lame. Of course, I'm not a big spess muhreen guy either. I like a few chapters but IG, DE, and Tzeentch is my favorite.

Agitatis Ultramarini!
Dominitis Ultramarini!
Non Praestatis Ultramarini!
Nobilitis Ultramarini!

>>93924281
Basically, very favortisitic writing
and they're the poster boys of the Marines.

>>93952245
but they are flawed. they have 2 big secrets that could have destroyed the imperium if they ever came out
>imperium secundus
>the 11th company

eventually Guilliman is going to defeat Fulgrim and become the new God Emperor

>>93955227
Fulgrim dabbed on gullyman and put him out of business for ages

>>93924311
yep, fpbp, strange no one's called it out.
Matt Ward did a very bad job, making Ultramarines into the most fucking mary sue chapter of space marine ever. Ultramarines are meant to be a Generalist Astartes Chapter, no specialty, but can do pretty much everything without any major penalty or hinderance.
but then came Matt Ward who had to butcher the lore making them into "tHe GrEaTeSt Of ThEm AlL" and the "Spiritual Liege" of every other Codex Compliant Astertes Chapter.
He got "fired" for it, but then a year or so later was "re-hired". the truth is the Board of Directors at Gee-Dubs only pretended to fire him, only to just put him in the backroom, still working on the game, just with his name taken off of published materials for a time. to reduce the heat off their backs

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>>93955283
>but then came Matt Ward who had to butcher the lore making them into "tHe GrEaTeSt Of ThEm AlL"
Anon Ultramarines as "greatest of them all" are line from 2nd ed ultramarines codex in 1993. Ward didn't do anything that wasn't there outside character wanking that was main theme of 5th ed fluff and was done in every codex.

why don't the other loyalist chapters like the minotaurs and non-codex-following original loyalist legions like the space wolves or the black templar try to be as unmatched in faith and in valour and being the greatest of all space marines?

>>93956724
They're too furry, too edgy, too retarded or a combination of the three.

How can the other loyalists even compete with the ultramarines, who have their own famous theme song?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx61xeDV_60

>>93924281
They were written as Mary Sues by Matt Ward, a guy who had way too much influence over the setting. They are the Wesley Crushers of 40k, and that's why everyone hates them even if they're otherwise rather salvageable.

>>93924281
>Their drip is beyond measure
>drip
This has to be bait, 'cause I'm biting down hard and calling you a zoomer faggot

>>93924281
They're one of my favorite chapters, admittedly I've never actually played a full game of Warhammer but when I got into the lore I liked that they were mostly good guys with flawed individuals in their roster. I feel like from those I've talked to, Ultramarines are like if you read a super hero comic like Kickass where these people are flawed and gritty, and then captain america shows up and steals the spotlight as this near perfect hero. New readers love captain america, but the older fans are now annoyed that this perfect posterboy is taking the spot from their old favorites.

>>93924281
Twenty years ago, Matt Ward wrote some incredibly pompous and grandstanding lore about the Ultramarines in the 5th ed. Codex: Space Marines. It was so over the top insulting to anyone not playing Ultramarines or successors and so embarrassing to people who did that GW has been kicking them down pegs upon pegs until they became acceptable again, but you will still see the moments they take the piss out of what they tried turning the Ultramarines into.

>>93955387
>Ultramarines as "greatest of them all" are line from 2nd ed ultramarines codex in 1993
>line from 2nd ed ultramarines codex in 1993
>ultramarines codex

Yeah and that's the fucking difference. An Ultramarine Codex saying that the Ultramarines are the "greatest of them all" is just as fine as a Space Wolves Codex saying that the Wolves are the bestest space marines. It makes sense that their own rule book would big-up them.
The problem was that what Ward wrote was suppose to be a SPACE MARINE Codex, as in for ALL Space Marine chapters. It shouldn't have wanked off any one single chapter, more then any other.

Now granted, there was a rumor/theory that said Codex was originally suppose to be (and written as) an Ultramarine Codex, but was changed to a Space Marine Codex just a few months prior to release, but there's never been any hard evidence for that.

>>93959490
t. Bigger Captain America fan

>>93959909
The second edition Smurfs codex was the SPACE MARINE Codex, as in for ALL Space Marine chapters, Anon.

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>>93924281
because they will never be like the black templars.

>>93959909
Nigger, Codex Ultramarines was Space Marines codex. marines got only 3 codexes in 2nd ed Angels of Death(BA and DA) Space Wolves and Ultramarines(every other marines). Original and first ever Space Marines codex was Codex Ultramarines. 5th ed codex wasn't supposed to be um codex, just title of Um codex got changed into SM codex back in 3rd ed. SM exist in Ultramarines world.

>>93925611
>dedicated
This is gonna sound weird but I wish the Victrix Honor Guard and Tyrannic War Vets got their own datacards. So you could use Victrix in Ultramarines successor chapters without unnecessarily taking Calgar (or using calgar as a proxy for Romulus Remus (TM) your special successor chapter master for your ultramarine successor chapter the PlusUltramarines).

Ultras have a lot of hero/unique character datasheets and their upgrade sprue isn't bad if you really lean into the Romans thing but it feels like Games Workshop wants to hamstring them in a specific niche.

It would also be cool if the White Scars got their Khan on Bike back, if Raven Guard got a datasheet for jump pack marines with power claws (like the dark fury marines), salamanders got firedrake terminators and (I'm not sure what Imperial Fists would get, besides some knightly stuff that takes away from Black Templurs) a proper generic Iron Father (so I don't have to use Clan Raukaan if I want to play a loreful IH army) for the Iron Hands instead of using that """tech"""marine that looks like a bitch.

Not particularly taking away anything but filling in holes where it's currently impossible to 'properly' play these legions/their successor chapters because GW removed the option to have something as simple as a Captain on a Bike for White Scars or power claws on Jump Pack Assault Marines for Raven Guard.

Before a xenosfriend gets upset I also think xenos should get stuff like the Krootasaurus and Warp Spiders in plastic and Dark Eldar plastic stuff.

>>93950261
This poster is a no models secondary. Literally 'lmao I listen to loretubers and read 1d4chan once' tier knowledge of the setting and actual game.

Why doesn't Roboute Guilliman just make the ultramarines chant from Chaos Gate the official anthem of the whole Imperium Of Man?

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>>93924281

I bet all successor chapters who ever fell to Chaos or became traitors like the Astral Claw / Red Corsairs are from inferior and degenerate non-Ultramarine-geneseed. Probably something low quality like Dark Angel or Iron Hand.

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>>93948470
Holy based, haters can drop dead.

Luv' me Smurfs
Luv' me Robert
Luv' me Calgar
Luv' me Sicarius

Simple as.
>>93962304

>>93959388
But Wesley Crusher is based?

Sergeant of the Squad, Accept Your Orders!

>>93924281
It's because nerds have a retarded social intelligence and incorrectly conflate contrarianism and cynicism with intelligence.

>>93966526
>It's because nerds have a retarded social intelligence
>comes from Warhammerfan
Oh irony

>>93959899
That Matt Ward codex also changed them from blue + yellow into the blue+gold colour scheme that we have now. And it sucks.

Likewise, GW should have introduced a flaw to them, I think that would have calmed down most haters over the years.

>>93967388
Their flaw... is that they are so noble and valorous, they must constantly save the entire Imperium all by themselves, because only they are capable of doing that, but they are so thin-spread, not all people cannot be saved.
Blame all the chapters that aren't ultramarines for that.

>>93967359
What the fuck is a Warhammerfan? Everyone knows we're called Hammerheads around here.

>>93962439
No Dark Angel has ever turned traitor, blasphemer.

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>>93924281
People usually say its Matt Ward or that they're boring compared to other chapters but I disagree.
Matt Ward influence has since waned and ultramarines have never legitimately been boring in any capacity.

What I think its the problem is how oversaturated in the fluff they are. In horus heresy, sure it made sense as they were the largest legion. But in 40k Ultramarines have no business being fucking everywhere as they are a 1000 marine chapter. They are in places they should not be in every corner of the galaxy. Ultramarines have been so common that they've literally outshined their successor chapters.

>>93967523
This. GW needs to approach their stories with at least a bit of realism. If one chapter is the big player in an event, and suffers the usual huge losses there, GW should give the spotlight to another chapter for at least 2-3 big events, so losses can be rebuilt.
It would not be very realistic, but at least would give other chapters a bit of stage time when the big players are on the bench to recover.

>>93924281
>New releases?! Oh its Ultramarines again.
GW pushes UltraMarines hard because blue is easy to paint well so they are the most child/beginner friendly army. This might not be felt as much outside the UK but there was a time when you had to put your foot down and make clear you were in for Beasts of Chaos units and didn’t want even one smurf box on the side.

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>>93967523
Yeah that's part of why Space Marine 2 worked for me. It constantly came up how stretched thin the company was, and how few marines they had to spare.
I'm not a Marine player, but I've considered getting some after having played the game just to paint. Maybe to make a boarding actions force. The Chapter I'm most sold on has always been Blood Angels, I like the inherent tragedy they have going on.

>>93924928
>Yeah, and being generically good with no real flaws makes them boring
Ins't their flaw is that they are a berserker chapter just like Space Wolves and World Eaters while pretending to be calculists?
If you insult their honor they will take the bait far more often than Imperial Fists or Dark Angels

>>93970530
Nope, that's Blood Angels, they try to act noble but can lose control to bloodlust at any moment. UM have no flaws and all marines will sperg out and kill you if you insult their honor.
While Dark Angels also have no genetic flaw, they have their dark secret they freindly fire to keep. Um are just perfect, they have pure gene-seed almost all marines follow their book, they are the best of them all, they have entire domain instead of single planet and ultramarines planets are best planets to live on in entire Imperium.

>>93924281
Seeing the same thing over and over is simply boring, there isn't anything else to it.

>>93967989
Children buy 40k miniatures?

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Roboute is a better ruler than the emperor.

>>93924281
Over exposed, too "perfect" while the others have quirks and imperfections, get handed far more wins and losses on all fronts.

>>93970530
They're ultra-mediocre. They get anywhere from a B+ to a C+ on everything they do. They also are supposed to be slightly weaker on a marine-to-marine level, so they have to compensate with other means. Unfortunately they are cursed with hack writers, just like the Dark Angels.

>>93974000
Who do you think GW's main customer base after whales?

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But I do like them, imperial fists on the other hand are everything people say Ultras are and are as crap as thought of.

Also in BL they get stomped by the crons on Damnos where the mster plan of Sicarius is to personally duel every "boss" necron he finds until the BIG "boss" necron appears. Who promptly guts him. And he's considered a guy who's reckless and doesn't follow the Codex much. You've also got Uriel for that and Telion, and sergeants throughout the 2nd company. For all the talk of it they really aren't the hardline codex adherents they're memed to be.

>>93976719
Adults that are not whales (but are jealous of the whales)

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>>93979126
Thanks anon, finally someone that has read the actual source material and is not just parroting memes. The real Cato Sicarius is not like the over the top TTS/1d4chan version that lorelets have in their minds.
>they really aren't the hardline codex adherents they're memed to be
Again and again in UM books, the codex is shown to be more like a self constraint they imposed on themselves to not go full Imperium 3.0. UM are idealistic, earnest autistic overachievers, but the irony is that behaviour being alienating and suspicious in the Imperium, so they NEED a way to restraint themselves and not go too far.
The grimdark side of the UM is that everyone else distrusts, or dismisses them despite their good intentions, double so since Guilliman returned.

>>93924281
because imperial fists are cooler

>>93924281
Matt Ward was extremely gay about shit and wanted these guys straight to hell. Literally Gary Stu's who can't be beaten even in a setting of super special snowflake Gary Stu's. At their peak these fags made fucking Grey Knights look like chump change. Legitimately it was to the point where if you got enough of the blue bastards together you could probably take down chaos gods and other truly stupid shit. I can't imagine that shit has gotten any better with great papa smurf running the entire imperium and his minions replacing all space marines with his shitty overgrown smurf variants.

>>93975563
Elaborate.

White niggas in here arguing about made up shit lmao

>>93952245
Their primarch fucks xenos and failed to save the emperor, also their chapter master committed identity theft.

>>93924281
I just think they're kind of two dimensional and being the poster child, GW rarely let's them off their leash to do anything remotely interesting.

They're the safe, vanilla choice.

A five man squad of ultras could probably kill a daemon primarch tbqh8ywx

>>93979130
>Adults that are not whales
Too small group comparing with whales and kids

>>93924281
>i think its hilarious u kids talking shit about roboute. u wouldnt say this shit to him on terra, hes jacked. not only that but he wears the freshest armour, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes. yall are pathetic lol

People who aren't into Ultramarines are really picked wrong hobby

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>>93981180
No

>>93982041
Theoretical - Guilliman is a better commander than the Emperor.
Practical - Anon has no evidence and won't elaborate.
Conclusion - Big E is a better commander.

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>>93981876
True, If you don't like Ultras then you don't really like 40k. The Ultramarines are an integral part of the setting even chaos or xenos players must pay respect to them

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>>93982057
Practical: Roboute currently rules the Imperium while the emperor sits on the throne and acts as a warp beacon(only thing hes good for btw).
Conclusion: Guilliman is a superior ruler.

ftfy

>>93982057
>>93982091
Theoretical: Girlyman can create a better Empire
Practical: Imperium Secundus ceased to exist, while Big Es Imperium still exists
Conclusion: Girlyman sucks at creating an Empire

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>>93982138
He only created it because he thought the imperium had fallen. Once he learned that the imperium had not fallen, he dismantled secondus. Midwits really think the imperium secondus is some sort of gotcha aganist Guilliman lmao.

>>93982188
>He only created it because he thought the imperium had fallen.

The first thing he did after he learned that his father was dead was to proclaim himself better, and make a new Imperium instead to fight for the existing one.

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It doesn't help that because they're the 'default' chapter that is used to sell generic baseline Space Marine models they're not allowed to really lean into their supposed "Romans in Space" aesthetic outside of character models, which also have to keep it relatively reigned in because otherwise they'll look out of place with the rest of the army, while the other major chapters are allowed to go wild with their models.

Just compare them to the Black Templars, for example. They're absolutely stacked with gorgeous infantry units that push the 'crusading space knight' look up to 110%, they have an incredibly strong and unique visual identity. Meanwhile the Ultramarines have... the basic infantry boxes. And if you buy the upgrade pack you get... shoulder pads with the chapter symbol sculpted on them. They could desperately do with something like the old Blood Angels upgrade box that gives you a massive pile of Roman-themed bits so you can make your guys Trve Sons of Gvilliman instead of just the default plain models with no real identity.

>>93924281
I don't hate them I just think they're boring looking.
The imperial fists should be the vanilla astartes while ultramarines should go all in on the roman larp; gladius, tower shield, mohawk helmet the whole shabangbang

>>93924281
It isn't hard, it isn't complicated. Ultramarines are the standard upon which all other space marines are compared. Yes, if you get into the details, of their roman influences, and their little Ultramar empire, I do legitimately think they are interesting. But that's the thing, you have to get into the details. Lots of things are intersting if you're willing to get detailed about them.

If we just stay on the surface, and think about each chapter's "hook" then Black Templars are space marines, but with a hardcore crusader flavor. Imperial Fists are space marines, but extra stubborn and with a thing for fortification. Raven Guard are sneaky space marines. Ultramarines are just space marines who are the bestest and being the most space mariney.

>>93924361
>but anyone who paints up-
Is already doing more than most greytiders

>>93926836
Black Legion was cool before it became the "diversity is our strength" faction. They were disloyal bitter fucks who were bent on destroying reality because losing their daddy was too painful. They more or less would minmax the gods, serving one on one day just to destroy their temples to curry favor with another on the next. They even figured out how to undo possession. They also hated the other chaos legions. As in kill on sight, had the rule hatred and everything.

>>93975563
Emperor is literally the greatest ruler in all of fiction, not even memeing. He created a galactic Empire in ridiculously little time, didn't even get a chance to completely finish or stabilize it before all hell broke loose, and even though it's beset from without and within by the most horrific threats imaginable it is still going strong after 10k years without him ruling it, just from how great the foundation he laid is. This is insane.

>>93986561
Its only lasted as long as it has thanks to the reforms Guilliman has passed when he's ruled both times as the lord commander. Guilliman has arguably delt with worse while working with less than the what the emperor had.

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>>93982616
>proclaim himself better than the emperor

Sounds like bullshit or just bad black library writing. Also you can't fight for the old imperium if the emperor is dead. What did Roboute do when he found the emperor was alive? He disbanded secondus.

A toilet seat with a golden pile of shit

for all the talk that ultramarines are sues or whatever what does it for me is that they're so often written as just generic space marine heroes, somehow only showing their ultramarine-ness when they feature in books for other legions as bit players

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>>93924281
Too much exposure, they have a huge empire thats surrounded by the largest necron dynasty, the tau empire and the largest tyranid hive fleets (as well as untold minor xenos and remnants from the Plague Wars) and yet still regularly send company after company across the galaxy to take the spot light away from some other chapter like Angels of Redemption or Silver Skulls because THEY have to be the only chapter doing anything ever.

>>93948469
>I'm a skullfucked automaton from /pol/, everything I vomit are truths that make people uncomfortable that I copypasted from some Russian meme
Nah, you're just a fucking pustule.

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>>93967388
The yellow > gold shift happened with 4th Ed, not 5th

>>93990877
Ward get a lot of shit for stuff he didn't do.
Named characters doing stupid shit wasn't even his idea it was 5th editions theme and every other codex also got it, just Ward was doing marine and necron codexes, but even nids get uber special characters.

>>93979775
>Ultramarines are so good at everything that they have to use the Codex Astartes to tie one hand behind their back so as to not make everyone else feel bad about how much better they are at everything. Their flaw is being friends with people who aren't as perfect as they are.
Jesus. That is fucking current year Marvel girl boss tier wanking. No wonder everyone hates them if this is your best attempt at defending them.

>>93990898
>even nids get uber special characters.
>Doom of Malantai solos an entire craftworld
It was the peak of internet personal army meme faggotry what happened to Ward.
It was proof that the internet needed to be gatekept.

>>93990982
>Doom of Malantai
What ever became of it? Did it just get reabsorbed into the hive fleet or what?

>>93991612
Yes it's now Neurothrope or whatever name zoanthrope+ have, basic nid unit.

>>93991645
That's a bit dull. I would have liked a little tidbit like, "it was last saw ravaging the frinces of X sector" and stuff like that.

>>93990898
A lot of the "Ultrawank" that he got credited with creating was lifted basically word-for-word from 2E's Codex Ultramarines as well, including the infamous "greatest of them all" line.

>>93992015
Yeah but it kinda fits nid theme of evolving. So super special nid becames common HQ type.

>>93975563
emperor was never trying to rule. was just moving everyone towards his goal.

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>>93924281
Personally I don't hate them but I dislike how they are pushed in the game/lore mostly because they are the poster boy faction of 40k. Matt Ward didn't help with his spiritual Liege BS but I can't fully fault him since if you work for a company as a writer and the higher ups want to push a certain faction as the best faction you do what you have to.
I honestly take more umbrage with the Primaris marine's genestock being SO PURE that it removes the quirks of other chapters that made them unique but as for their "drip" it's okay. The Crimson Fists pulled it off better anyways

>>93993975
>just moving everyone towards his goal.
Life in the webway?

>>93990964
> so good at everything that they have to use the Codex Astartes to tie one hand behind their back
You're missing the point. Is not that Ultramarines are actually good at everything, but that they autistically try to be it, so they get carried away into eventually doing questionable things unless they get stopped.

Marneus Calgar once demoted all the Macragge's youth militia military instructors after an armed pro-democratic student rebellion tried to took over the city. And not because of the rebellion, but because the students were unsuccessful and he judged that they had been poorly trained!
This is the type of asian dad autists we're talking about.

>>93994782
From the thumbnail this looks like a mole with -_- eyes and a big nose.

>>93924281
They're just kinda bland compared to most other chapters.

I feel agitated by the noble ultramarines.

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Bump for the Imperium's greatest heroes.

>>94001425
Looking back it's a shame that we never got an updated version of Calgar in his non-Terminator armour before Primaris hit, it would have looked sweet as hell.

>>93954933
based chaos gate music enjoyer

>>93985333
>chaos unit with a kill on sight order for all other chaos factions
That’s so much better than the gay ass “abbadon goes around to suck all the dicks and get a totem from each god to prove he’s really tough and strong and cool, we swear”

>>93924281
They're way overused for a chapter that's so damn bland.

>>94008590
Play the true sons warband then

>>94008644
No thanks, I’m a loyalist at heart. Just saying, there’s so many cool ways to take chaos but it seems like they just rarely use them

>>94008649
It's the same with every faction. You can just play the bland vanilla stuff and copy the GW colours, or you can dig around the old (and sometimes new) fluff and build and play something more interesting.
This is actually one of the biggest strengths of the 40k universe in general. Let GW promote boring things like Ultramarines and Black Legion, but as long as successor chapters and splinter warbands are a thing, all is good.

>>93924281
They're the posterboy subfaction for the posterboy faction, as such they get hyped up the most and people get tired of that. Especially when it gets egregiously overdone during Ward times. It also doesn't help that their whole schtick is being the basic and balanced model, making them the generic option of the big named chapters without anything else to set them apart other than an easy to miss Roman aesthetic. The only other big name chapter more generic than them is arguably Imperial Fists whose thing varies between being defensive siege dudes and being kings of generic bolter spam.

>>93967523
Yeah, I think this is a big issue. We have 9 loyalist legions, and hundreds of successor chapters, but somehow it's always Ultramarines getting into schenanigans.

I was pleasantly surprised for the Vashtorr box it was Dark Angels, and Dark Angels are my least favorite chapter.

>>93975563
>Chinese art
Why do the Chinese like 40k so much? Most characters in 40k are white, most Primarchs are white

>>93989887
In my opinion, I think the codex should have let the first founding chapters to have 10000 marines each. This way can justify why they hog all the spot light. How about it ?

>>93924311
based blue hater

>>93994360
Those are not flaws in any meaningful sense. An actual flaw would be the Codex existing as a bludgeon to use against other chapters that the UM only play lip service, Girlyman redirecting Imperium resources for the benefit and expansion of Ultramar as his private fiefdom, or, befitting their Space Rome aesthetic, that underneath the surface it's all political fuck-fuck games

>>93924281
xenos players dont like space marines because they get all GW attention and love.
space marines dont like ultramarines becuase they get even more of GW attention and love.

they are basically the favorite child by a long shot, and every other faction suffers neglect as a result

>>94010922
Do they get more attention? Sure, the default paint scheme is blue, but aside from like the decal sheets marine sets rarely have UM specific bits or anything. Wouldn’t surprise me if dark angels or something had more chapter specific bits in the modern sets.

>>94010922
>space marines dont like ultramarines becuase they get even more of GW attention and love.
> every other faction suffers neglect as a result
They really don't. By virtue of being 'Default Marines', all they ever get is to be on the packaging for the latest generic Marine kits. Compare them to what the Dark Angels, or Blood Angels, or Black Templars have got since the launch of Primaris Marines and it's not even a close contest. Even the Tyrannic War Vets have been squatted now ffs

>>93951615
this isnt actually true about space wolves and hasnt been for two decades

>>94012209
How isn’t it true?

>>94008590
Recently the image has sprung into my mind of Abaddon flooding astropaths throughout the Eye of Terror with Band Aid-esque donation campaigns. "If every warband chips in with just a token force of warriors, together we could end the Imperium and let the galaxy burn."
We are his will, We are his Legion. We are the ones who lead his bitter Black Crusade.

>>94002981
I consider it to be one of nuGWs biggest crimes and a display of how short sighted they are since they released primaris terminators like 4 years later

>>94012557
it's not true in the fluff, since anything more than a couple sentences has been written about them it's been more than wolf xyz, the naming convention for their units is unfortunate but not at all proportionate to the dumb memes