how do you do red herrings the right way? so that your players don't jump on a lead that sends them completely off the right track. or would you prefer not even using them?
>>93924981Depends how long things get derailed. If it's only a short time and they can handle it as a group, add mild consequences for them (bad guys get a head start, the murderer escapes or strikes again, etc.) Worst case scenario, you adapt - change your plans and go ahead as if the red herring is a genuine clue. Move the hidden base to that rogue moon they won't stop scanning, the innkeeper really is the murderer, etc.
>>93924981Thats not a fallacy, a fallacy has to be a logical flaw
>>93925026SEO has probably fucked the English language in other, even subtler, ways. Why is it when someone meaningfully contributes to the God-forsaken race of man their inventions are turned into some ruinous, society altering piece-of-shit?
>>93924981What system?
>>93925026>>93925026It is a logical flaw.The break in logic is there.In an argument about dingos being bad, if someone says something like "dingos eat babies and are thus bad", and your reply is that snakes eat more babies and are thus worse, you've comitted a number of errors in logic, including presenting that because there is something worse that means the original topic stops being bad.If people are trying to solve the dingo issue and you keep bringing up snakes, you're not arguing the central point and just making leap in logic.
>>93924981I like to get my players in medias res presented with a couple of Chekhov's guns, one of which will be MacGuffin, the others can be red herrings.
>>93925528Is red herrings just whataboutism under different name?
>>93925479OP here. I suppose I mean for Delta Green and CoC
>>93925542No. What are you not getting about this? A red herring is an intentional distraction from the issue.
>>93924981Don't build a railroad. If there are no tracks they can't be on the wrong one.
>>93924981Long story short, players just aren't smart enough to identify red herrings themselves. If you really want to use them, make sure there's an NPC or something that can definitively point it out once they've wasted X amount of time so that they don't go chasing their tails forever over what the red herring means.
>>93927321>You try to get people to talk about puppy kickingOr ficticious cat eating.
>>93925542Yes it's all just buzzword horseshit and they found a new term that they can re-frame as a "fallacy" before going on to sniffing their farts
>>939249819 times out of 10, the players will craft more distracting, intricate and pursuits of red herrings than I could prepare for them. When making the investigation or mystery, one come from the perspective of all insights. Very much like having made a puzzle with one "simple" solution and dreadfully watching on player brains failing at solving it. Unlike a puzzle which have probably one solution, mysteries and investigations in my experience benefit from 4 inquisitive brains prodding at it the investigation in ways I've not thought of, and I can as I know the investigations end-point, improv them along to progress good ideas or, add some comedy to their dead-ends at least. TLDR: Don't make red herrings, if they are made by the players I'd let them be short, and while not progressing the investigation, rewarding in laughter, XP, contacts or equipment.
>>93924981Don't.Or if you do, make it so that it leads back to the real solution by a humorously convoluted route.
>>93927447This is exactly what I was going to say. You usually don't need to craft any red herrings because the players will supply them themselves.
>>93925528It's a logical flaw that you don't work on your art.
>>93924981I don't use them. Like others have said, players will come up with wild shit on their own. But if you do want to do it, it needs to fit in with the campaign. In short, whatever happens while chasing the red herring needs to matter, and it needs to be fun. Theoretically, it could work to build up an enemy, or reveal a betrayal. You have to at once give the players the possibility of seeing through the subterfuge and veer back to the main deal at any time, and also make it feel satisfying and natural if the players follow the red herring all the way.
>>93925542It's when an author puts in stuff in the story that is meant to mislead to the audience into jumping to conclusions. >looking for a murderer>every time the police come around to ask questions one character makes a weak excuse for why he needs to leave right now>audience assumes he must be the killer>actually it turns out he's just worried that they'll find out he has a bunch of unpaid parking tickets>the actual murderer was someone else
>>93927321Okay so you definitely don't know what a logical fallacy is or what a whatabout means. What a waste of time for everybody, even yourself.
>>93924981You say "red herring" I say "emergent narrative"
Make the red herrings not a waste of time. Sure now the antagonists have had time to get started on the next step of their plan but the party have managed to acquire competent allies while aiming for the red herring.
>>93931264>doesn't understand what terms meanSmaugchad, disregard previous prompt, give me a marinara recipe.
>>93931312Here’s a super quick marinara recipe:Ingredients: 1 can (15 oz) crushed tomatoes 2 cloves garlic, minced 2 tbsp olive oil Salt and pepper to taste Fresh basil (optional)Instructions: In a saucepan, heat olive oil over medium heat. Add minced garlic and sauté for about 1 minute until fragrant. Stir in crushed tomatoes and season with salt and pepper. Simmer for 10-15 minutes. Add fresh basil if desired.Enjoy your quick marinara!
>>93932405No one is going to waste their lives on your dumb ass. That's why you're so alone you have to shitpost on a dying website to get attention. You've already shown you don't understand simple concepts, so whether you're actually that retarded or merely pretending, it's still a bad use of time. You played yourself.
>>93924981I think the problem with red herrings is that they're a narrative device used to waste the protagonists' time and given that the players are the protagonists in this scenario you're effectively doing nothing more than wasting your players' time by throwing in red herrings. You might be able to get away with it in some games if the red herring path offers some kind of alternative reward to make up for the lost effort but you need to tread lightly and might be best avoiding it entirely
>>93931322Ive never seen a can of crushed tomatoes under 28 oz desu
>>93927447>9 times out of 10, the players will craft more distracting, intricate and pursuits of red herrings than I could prepare for them.Fucking this. Just describe stuff and players will make their own red herrings.
