>>93926114
it is?

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>>93926120
It's not, but there are some very loud retards to cry >>>/v/ whenever anything that covered by the Commander Keen Rule is brought up.

It's just the current resident shitposters that have no idea what the board culture is.

There is an entire board /vrpg/ specialized in that. No need to bring it here.

>>93926138
And the furfag shows up to spread his filth.

>>93926138
Lurk more.

Depending on the style of the complexity of the game, they can be just better games digitized. A lot of people play battletech almost fully automated because the sheer amount of rolling, tracking, and modifiers that go into "you hit him in the leg and did five damage" are just begging to be done by a machine.

On the other hand it's largely completely pointless for ttrpgs because what's the point of an RPG that just goes "but you cannot get ye flask!" at you over and over? I dunno how anyone can play one of them longer than they encounter a scenario that clearly forces them into a set of responses they don't actually want to make.

>>93926132
/tg/'s "board culture" is a macerated corpse and i wouldnt wipe my ass with what little of it is left

>>93926114
>Valerie
made for big farmer cock.

>>93926529
Then fuck off.

>>93926529
This statement implies there is some degree of a corpse you would be willing to wipe your ass with. That is gross and unsanitary.

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I'm not a fan of where 40k is heading rules philosophy wise.
Earlier editions were more like toolsets, giving you tons of scenarios, optional rules and advice for making your own adjustments to a game. There was more emphasis on creativity and simulationist thinking. It was fun because it felt like you were witnessing a "real" battle.
Modern 40k is just a MOBA. Everybody plays the exact same scenario
>symmetrical board of L-shaped imperial ruins
>Board split into 3 "lanes"
>each lane has an objective, each player has their own home objective
>you have little secondaries that mostly involve hiding in corners
>both sides just sit and hide their entire army, waiting for the other to make a movement mistake and insta-kill something
>everything is dead by round 3 anyway
It doesn't feel like an actual battle anymore, it feels like a shitty board game

>>93926114
what does this mean?

>>93926114
Because I want to play tabletop games designed to be played as such, not clunky tabletop versions of videogames.

>>93926130
Please, fuck off with your fake rule.

Commander Keen sucked. They were a shitty bunch of games that have aged terribly, and anyone who says anything good about them is objectively retarded. They're games built for hardware not suited for platform games, and are made up of some genuinely terrible design choices. They're only good if the only other games you compare them to was other MS-DOS Platform games; ie. they're only good if you didn't have a video game system.

/tg/ should have enough freedom to discuss video games related to traditional games, and even just video games that can be related to traditional games, but what we don't need is retards like yourself trying to prop up that fake, bullshit rule and pretend it has any bearing or meaning when it's largely only ever invoked by retards with shit taste who want to talk about shitty games without being bullied about them in /v/.

>>93929038
>Commander Keen sucked. They were a shitty bunch of games that have aged terribly, and anyone who says anything good about them is objectively retarded. They're games built for hardware not suited for platform games, and are made up of some genuinely terrible design choices. They're only good if the only other games you compare them to was other MS-DOS Platform games; ie. they're only good if you didn't have a video game system.

This is a truth many people have a hard time accepting.

>>93928169
no one is forcing you to play those missions anon
me and my friend usually just set up a fun scenario and then try and kill each other

>>93926114
4e tried that and it was very much a disaster

>>93929038
Kill yourself.

>>93926114
Define "the vidyafication of tabletops" and we might be able to actually answer.

I'm not against it. The only thing I don't like about new CRPGs is that they no longer come with campaign making tools like Neverwinter Nights did.

>>93929038
It doesn't really matter whether you liked the games or not, in fact, I don't like 2D platformers at all. That doesn't change that some games are /tg/ related and people seething over Commander Keen are furfags.

>>93929686
4E was a downright great game ruined by seething fatbeards who wouldn't let a single conversation about it last longer than a few posts before crying shit twinkie. What ruined it from a gameplay and sales point of view was the Essentials line that tried to make it play more like oldschool D&D and failed.

>>93929987
>It doesn't really matter whether you liked the games or not,
What doesn't matter is you and your bullshit.
The "Commander Keen Rule" is one of those things retards try to put in place and imagine they're not faggots for doing so, and that's where you're wrong.

It's an unnecessary fake rule, named after a game series that undermines what itself. It's incredibly ironic, because /tg/ specifically shouldn't have Commander Keen threads, because those games are entirely unrelated to traditional games, are incredibly low in quality, have no lore or even ideas worth porting over to a traditional games, and also anyone who enjoys them is lower than the lowest furfag.

I'm quite the oldfag, having been here even before this board existed, and I can say with extreme confidence that anyone who tries to make up gay shit like the "Commander Keen Rule" is the biggest sack of self-entitled crap you can find, and the last sort of person who should opine about what should and shouldn't be allowed here.

If you want to encourage people to discuss video games here, do it by calling attention to great games loaded with ideas that everyone would want to add or imitate to their own games. Don't do it by spamming a fake nonsense rule named after character from a garbage set of games that only the limpest-dicked retards hold any fond nostalgia for.

>>93929585
I've done that too but 10th is so hyper lethal those missions aren't even fun, it's designed around you being able to kill half the enemy army in a turn to compensate for every hiding their whole army.

>>93930088
That's a lot of words to say you're a reddit colonist who can't assimilate.

>>93926130
Wait, so off-topic things are on-topic now?
Not policing, I just need clarification, because what's "on-topic" seems to move quicker than the goalposts of a /lit/ or /v/ fag's argument.

>>93932636
"on-topic" is flexible and highly subjective

>>93926114
I’m not. I’ve been waiting over a fucking decade for a half decent digitized wargame. It wouldn’t even have to be 1:1 with Warhammer or any other major game. I’d fucking kill for a skirmish wargame vidya with proper character customization and level building/randomizing with online multiplayer and progression.
Seriously there are some amazing concepts of wargaming that older editions of Warhammer had captured like the firing arcs and facings, armor values, a plethora of morale and combat special rules, all of which would be awesome to automate and digitize to allow cleaner smoother play and deep tactical combat.

>>93932733
There's megamek

>>93926529
Exits over yonder retard.

>>93929038
You too bucko.

>>93932907
Thank you for proving me right.

>>93926114
Not really. Take Battletech, HBS managed to captured it nicely, although not perfect but it is great enough for beginners to like it, plus it is highly moddable. Only some of people complaint about it, claiming that MegaMek, a 3rd party fanmade is better, which is a stupid comparison. While MegaMek is more faithful to ruleset but it is frickin LQ Java-based, very cumbersome to setup to even run it.
BG and Icewind Dale series not only captured D&D nicely, it even fixed some longstanding issue, like weak Ranger, which actual rulebook still pretty weak even with new subclasses which are too situational. You can say vidya version make some class more playable.

>>93926114
because people who have spent their life playing CRPGs before touching a TTRPG tend to be really really shitty players.

The only ones pissed off are seething nogames who can't pretend to be a part of a sekrit club anymore.

>>93932636
Realistically if its related to fantasy or sci-fi and you can get away with having the OP be about Setting discussion without mechanics or about a /tg/ related spinnoff you will be fine.
Just know that there is a subsection of board members that hate /tg/ culture which will try and shit up your thread.

>>93933457
This, same for Isekai Anime Guys.
The only group of fantasy media consumers you should completely trust as first time players are dudes who only really watched the LotR Jackson movies back in the day or people who read fantasy books published before...lets say 2005 to be safe.
Everyone else your going to have to help them unlearn bad habits.

>>93933547
>Declares an unearned victory.
>Gets called out doing that.
>Cries about it.
You are a pathetic sad little man who will never amount to anything in life.

>>93926114
Some video game mechanics translate well to table top, however, most do not. The inverse is true as well.
A good example of this is a board game called the Isofarian Guard. RAW the only way you are going to stand a chance against enemies when you advance a chapter is by grinding encounters for XP and resource gathering for better gear. This is acceptable in a video game with automated combat features but in table top it dramatically stalls the games progression to pretty absurd degree to the point quadruple XP gain from combat and double item drops are seen as a pretty standard house rule.

>>93926114
It's not, but the resulting video games have their own discussion boards, so you should go discuss them there
>it's /tg/ culture though
Off topic bullshit doesn't stop being off topic bullshit just because you like it.

What RPGs or Wargames would you want to see adapted into computer games? No slop like dnd or warhammer please.

ttrpg grognards have this hubris that makes them think they are above things like well thought out rulesets. they think that rule 0 means that rules 1-100 don't matter. if a game puts serious thought into its gameplay mechanics that makes it a "board game" or a "video game" and "not a real rpg" according to them. I think the reality is that this type of player just wants to play freeform and only pretends to have rules as a courtesy while really seeing them as an unnecessary restraint.

>>93932733
total warhammer is as good of a digitized version of the tabletop game as you could ask for, but if you bring it up to tabletop players they will shit on you.

>>93926114
Because vidya is not /tg/.
/tg/ does not oppose vidya.
But a fa/tg/uy goes to /v/, /vg/ or /vrpg/ when he wants to talk about vidya.

>>93926130
Keen did not exist in a vacuum, retard.

>>93933493
Honestly, I kinda wish the Lodoss Chronicles game bundle would get EN translations, the lot of them. (namely the Sword World games)

>>93933476
This isn't true, though, because you can't run a sci-fi or fantasy quest here.

>>93932650
Yes, thank you for describing the problem back to me.

>>93926114
Who are you even talking to?

Tabletop adaptations have been driving video games and online gaming since literally the 1970s. Since before what you think is the internet even existed.

>>93938676
OP's previous low effort bait thread was some vidya-adjacent nonsense, he got told to fuck off back to /v/ so now OP made this thread insted.
Also could you elaborate on 70s online gaming?

>>93938676
there has been plenty of tabletop to video game adaptations, but there have been few attempts to backport innovation from video games to tabletop and the ones that did try got terrible reactions.

>>93938726
Sid Meier founded Microprose after he and a sales guy crashed the network for the cash register software company they worked for because everyone was playing a D&D-like on it. The thing that was the thing before becoming the thing that became Gauntlet was a D&D-like that was crashing a network Berkley or some college. I don't remember the details. The college one happened in the 70s. Can't remember if Sid Meier was in the 70s or like, 1980 or 81 exactly.

>>93938852
I think that's totally unfair. Video games absolutely drive the sorts of settings people play and the styles of games. Maybe not the mechanics aside from 6 years of an entire edition of D&D. But absolutely fighting games have spawned an entire genre in RPGs. Plenty of settings. Storylines people want to play. Fallout has how many RPGs and boardgames? It's all a morass of recycled pop culture crap.

>>93939009
I'm talking about mechanics. people rejected d&d 4th edition and absolutely hated whfb 3rd edition. a significant percentage of ttrpg players refuse to even use maps. as soon as you suggest any kind of non-traditional mechanic they scream video game and refuse to even consider it.

>>93941019
>people hated whfb 3rd
first I've heard of that
not claiming to be an expert mind you I'm not 50 but it seems to be the first edition that wasn't total junk, lasted a while as a result, and still has its fans

>>93941019
Video games have had MASSIVE influence on RPGs.
>I'm talking about mechanics
Why have you limited the relevant scope of inquiry to that specific nugget? How the fuck are you supposed to adapt "press X to Jump" into a ttrpg? Of course the mechanics of "press button; shit happens" haven't been adopted into a format that doesn't rely on pressing buttons, dipshit.
>a significant percentage of ttrpg players refuse to even use maps
Nonsense.
>as soon as you suggest any kind of non-traditional mechanic they scream video game and refuse to even consider it
Did you get your feelings hurt in one argument on the internet and invent the entire topic out of whole cloth, by chance? Because that's total and utter nonsense.

>>93941019
The main problem with backporting vidya mechanics back to tabletop is that in vidya the algorithms can track dozens of parameters and calculate complex formulas in fraction of a second, in tabletop it all needs to be simple enough to handle by hand. So you need to simplify, and after the simplifying you often end up with something that already exist.

>>93941121
Also controllers.

>>93941135
yes, also controllers, or more generally very different set of input/output interfaces to interact with the game

>>93926114
I prefer the tabletopification of vidya (but anons here get pissy about that too).

I want to try out Ember
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MErInn8A8Yw&ab_channel=FoundryVirtualTabletop

>>93941152
Bro. The thing about getting pretentious is that, if you need to do it to communicate the information to your audience? The audience isn't worth communicating the information to and who fuckin' cares what they think.
If
>Controllers
didn't mean
>set of input/output interfaces to interact with the game
Then that's their fuckin' problem.

>>93941093
was it the 2nd edition I'm thinking about? the one with the sigmar dice and the cards for stuff. when it came out everyone said it was a board game and not a real rpg and kept playing the old edition.

>>93941099
go take a dilation break or something. you know that most video game rpgs don't have jump buttons and are being stupid on purpose.

>>93941121
most video games are essentially just d100 systems. when I say that people reject video game type systems I'm not talking about the dice mechanic, but things like mp systems or simply the idea that an ability can't do more than what it says in the rules block. tons of people hated d&d 4th edition because of things like encounter powers or not really having rules for dropping chandeliers on people, calling it video game-ification.

>>93941320
specialized dice and cards? that's 3rd edition alright.

>>93926114

Just play a videogame instead.

>>93941767
a videogame made by women and gays?
no thank you

>>93933730
You don't know what an RPG is or how one is supposed to be played.

In any real RPG the player characters can do an infinite amount of things, the breadth of which can't possibly be covered by any set of rigid rules. It follows from that that necessarily the rules must be fluid and subject to constant human arbitration. This is not a bug, it's a feature. It's how they're intended to work.

When your shit game is called videogame-like they mean its rules are too rigid. It tries to confine the players into a limited set of options and no thinking outside the confines of that tiny box. This is not "well thought out rules", it's the opposite. It's trying to bring a paradigm to RPGs that has no place or purpose here.

>>93926130
Trying too hard.

>>93926114
Oh man I l really love this game with its stat and AC bloat out the ass, and over-emphasis on stacking a million pre-buffs which slows down the pacing of the game tremendously. Even better, there is a LITERAL polyamorous couple you recruit early on in the game too, alongside other similar feminist garbage!

>>93926114
Brings in secondaries and tertiaries who then go on to seethe about AoS and Primaris
See >>93933730

>>93930002
>4E was a downright great game
...in opposite land.

>>93941824
and here is the "real rpg" grognard just as I described. if you have no intention of following the rules you aren't playing a game, you are playing "who can use their real life charisma skill to convince the dm to steer the story in his favored direction."

>>93941320
sorry, if I was less dim I'd have used context clues to guess you were talking wfrp not whfb

>>93926114
I like board game arena, I have played more games there than in real life
For things like RPGs it's different though, can't see the appeal when regular video game rpgs exist.

>>93930088
> I'm quite the oldfag
Doubt

>>93929781
Map editor in bg3 mos tools was 'hacked'

>>93941797
Oh you're one of these fucking idiots. >>>/pol/

>>93944189
troon
>>>/lgbt/

>>93944189
Bro I'm not that guy, and I'm a hard-left socialist, not a /pol/chud, but OBJECTIVELY, white and Japanese men make better video games. If you're a white man yourself and you try to dispute this then you're a disingenuous faggot.

>>93926114
If you mean video game adaptations of tabletop stuff, I'm totally fine with that but it belongs on /v/ usually.

If you mean tabletop games trying to emulate vidya elements, there's a conversation to be had there I guess but it needs to be specific to whatever system and mechanic you want to talk about.

If you mean tabletop games needing virtual client shit, that does belong here but I personally don't care for it because I enjoy minis, sheets, and dice when I'm gathered with friends for this sort of thing. If I wanted to fuck around with virtual/online stuff only I'd rather just play a video game for real. Our current DM already slows the game to a crawl because he has to drag around whatever tokens to display what we see on a projector and do even more setup for battles, while I appreciate the effort, in the time he does that I can doodle a battlemap way faster. I think it's completely fine to use calculators and health/initiative trackers for battle, ebooks, and other convenience tools like that otherwise

>>93944404
You're retarded. People paranoid about women and gay people are retarded. Go back to >>>/pol/, you retards.

>>93944683
I'm not paranoid about anyone, but what I just stated is a FACT and you can call me a retard or whatever else you want, but you can't refute it.

>>93926114
>Why is /tg/ averse to vidyafication of tabletops?
What the fuck does this even mean, can you even expand on it.
Oh wait.
This is just another rage bait thread.
Damn you got me bro!

>>93926130
>stole
?

>>93926114
I sometimes wonder how different Fallout would have been if it had used GURPS as its char building engine as it was original planned to.

>>93926661
>>93927919
>>93933183
Why are you pretending you aren't a newfag?

>>93944189
/pol/ did nothing wrong (and neither Hitler).

>>93926114
It restricts creativity, a video game can only ever do things that it's been programmed to allow.

>>93942083
NTA but there is a difference for rules which allow a person to arbitrate a large number of otherwise freeform decisions under mechanical standards and those which lock you into a otherwise arbitrary set of mechanics.
Its the difference between
>Your Dexterity score represents your characters skill in X situations.
vs
>A description of what a characters dexterity stat means in a way that allows it to be used within reason provided by the descriptor as arbitrated by the Game Master.
In example 1 if you want to cross a pit by lassoing some rope around a stalagmite and no skill governs such an action then you can't do it.
In example 2 if you and the GM can come to an agreement on mechanical execution.
And if your against letting the players come up with solutions outside of the narrowly defined mechanical choices then their is no reason for your game to be a tabletop RPG.
Fuck it I will even say it not for the personal creation side of the hobby wargames would fall under the same standard.

>>93933789
>But a fa/tg/uy goes to /v/, /vg/ or /vrpg/ when he wants to talk about vidya.
How about fa/tg/uy stops crying about tabletop on /v/ first?

>>93930002
4e's primary virtue was being designed rather than accreted like previous editions.

>>93951018
example 1 is a game. you can do x when y so you have to figure out how to navigate the game state to y so you can x. example 2 is completely arbitrary. even if you pretend that you're gaming by rolling dice, it's still ultimately up to the gm to make up the target score and decide on what modifiers to allow. it's basically no different from free form where you are trying to persuade the gm to follow your new idea for the story instead of the original consensus.

>>93932733
>digitized wargame
Is moonbreaker no good? It looks like it gives the whole wargame experience

>>93932733
Try Battle Sector, it is as primitive as Warhammer 40k.

>>93951048
Point me to a single tabletop thread on /v/, let alone one a fa/tg/uy cries about it in.

>>93955554
NTA but their have been multiple time people have taken the Martial vs Caster argument threads and placed them on /v/ with whatever the latest Fantasy CRPG is as an excuse.

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>>93926114
I only play digitally

>>93941019
Hell you have people here who scream video game if a TRPG happens to have any sort of meta currency, even if it's for something as simple as a reroll.

>>93938609
>the guy trying to topic police boilerplate /tg/ threads is an assblasted questfag
Sweet fuck let it go. It was years ago.

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>>93950445
>Four attributes instead of seven
>3d6 instead of 1d100 resolution mechanics
>No Vault Boy because supposedly Steve Jackson hated the perk images
>Less blood/mutilation because apparently Steve Jackson thought it was excessive

>>93960522
All of those would be worse. Guess we got our answer.

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>>93944404
>left socialist
National socialism is also socialism.
All authoritarianism is essentially the same.

>>93926114
Stupid question.
Bait thread.
Prove me wrong.

>>93960805
You are triggered by simple questions?

>>93926359
>Play a tabletop wargame with complex rules
>Ugh, I wish this was automated
If you're too lazy to track that info then why the fuck are you playing something with that level of complexity?
Mainstreaming of the hobby killed it.

>>93929038
Wow, I found it. The wrongest post on 4chan.

Well, second-wrongest; the guy who thought that MLPFiM wouldn't have that much porn still takes the cake.

>>93960836
cope

>>93926114
/v/ is a cesspool. Keep your culture war bullshit to yourself.

>>93929585
dude chill out it's just a game

>>93967836
board gaming had culture war long before vidya were a thing

>>93969284
Lel. Here we go again with the historical revisionism...

>thread argument goes for more than 50 replies
>someone brings up nazism
every time

>>93970045
Gygaxian answer to orc baby question being systemic racism.
Corellon, the non-binary special snowflake.
Ecoradical message of Dark Sun.
It was always there, you just didn't see it when you were younger.

>>93929987
They often aren’t /tg/ related. Just because a game involves knights or elves or magic doesn’t make it /tg/ related. Unless it’s directly related to a traditional game (eg. Mech Warrior or Baldur’s Gate or Space Marine) it is off topic. Even then it should still be discussed in relation to the lore or mechanics of the tabletop game. Mentioning AGOT books or shows within a thread about the tabletop wargame or RPG is fine, but a thread that’s exclusively bitching about the show is off topic and belongs in /tv/ just like if you went on /tv/ to bitch about some mechanics about the wargame.

Also most people who post off topic shit and try to defend it with the commander keen rule are culture war obsessed retards.

>>93926130
>>93926114
Because video games are inherently more restrictive and less interesting than TTRPGs, and also /v/ermin are insufferable culture war faggots just like /pol/.

>>93970301
Bro, I don't have a problem with any of these. AND more to the point: These weren't at the weaponized talking points.

You know you can enjoy both traditional games AND video games

>>93971379
no one enjoys videogames anymore

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>>93973421
mainstream is rotten, indie scene still has few worthwhile gems

>>93952417
Its pretty good and well polished over all considering its made by the subnautica guys. It had issues in early access (i got crashes a few times while in a match) but if it can find a solid playerbase i has potential i think.

>>93932733
Not sure how nobody has mentionned SOVL yet. despite the name being something a /tg/ idiot would say, its a very near to 1:1 videogame version of rank and flank warhammer fantasy battles. And its free to play, to boot.

>>93975701
Yeah, looks like something /tg/ would make back when /tg/ was still making things.
Speaking of which, remember Interstellar Army Simulator 2015?

>>93984537
Oh yea. Shame that nobody developped on the idea.

>>93930002
4e was mechanically good but boring as shit to play.

>>93944852
>What the fuck does this even mean
Baldur's Gate 3 is vidyafication of D&D. There, now you know.

>>93926130
Then why is the big reason everyone shits on D&D4e because it's the "mmo vidya edition"?

>>93997940
Because it slaughtered the most important Sacred Cow of diegetic presentation and explanations for mechanics.
Other IP that do not have the burden of history are innocent of that sin.

>>94002307
and yet, 4e lives on... one notable variation of it being Lancer.

>>94002307
This

>>94002307
D&D always sucked big fat dicks at that right from day one.

>>94002846
Yes and Lancer does not have a history of trying to explain its mechanics to the same extent and so if innocent for that issue. Alongside that 4e has its fanbase which are so dug in that the outside critical conception does not affect them.
>>94003103
Fair but the fact that it had that and kept that even after the hand over from TSR to Wizards made it a culturally key part of the D&D Identity regardless of how shit it was at doing do. Again I called it slaughtering a sacred cow for a reason. But just throwing it away without properly addressing why it was sacred in the first place is what caused the shitstorm.

>>94003582
being a sacred cow in the first place is just a pillar in the overall scheme of people hating ttrpgs designed as games and not some kind of gay simulation that pretends to be a game sometimes.

>>93929038
>>>/mlp/

>>93997940
A common comment is that if it were a vidya, it would be pretty good. The complaint is that it was supposed to be a better, new and improved version of DnD 3.x. It was nothing like it. Any complaints about it being too vidya are to do with the dereliction of it's duty as a sequel to 3.x, and not expressly because it's too vidya.
This guy probably puts it better >>94002307

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>>94003765
Ok but Anon why was it a sacred cow regardless of perceived quality, what merit allowed it to not only last for the 30 some odd years before hand but come into existence in the first place?
Or why is as you put it
>ttrpgs designed as games
Not considered to be as liked or respected and in turn caused the pushback in the first place.

I would personally argue its because the history of RPGs that lean more into the game side of things are ultimately an offshoot born from people trying to make the best approximation of simulation style games on computers and over time those limitations developed into their own style before coming back into the tabletop ecosystem as a separate and therefore foreign thing with its own fans that clashes and fractures instead of combining (Pic Rel).