We will never again have a new setting as kino as Dark Sun.Any of you guys still play this?
Dark Sun is goated. I might run it next.
>>93946554Got a nice campaign idea in mind?
>>93946508The Olde World is still there anon
>>93946561I don't think my players would go for it. I don't have any specific plots in mind but I want to run:-very limited races (maybe even human only)-limit classes (zero magic users or perhaps just very heavily limited spell selection)-3d6 down the line-max level of 6, maybe only 4-super slow level gain
>>93946709Why so low power?
>>93946821Because it's Dark Sun. It's supposed to be Conan.
>>93946709>Dark sun is so great, I want to run it next>But I want to take out everything that makes it dark sunWhy run dark sun if you don't want to run dark sun?
>>93946942What about Dark Sun screams high level PCs to you? It's literally Conan with the serial numbers filed off shoved into the D&D mold.
>>93947018I was talking more about the fact that you want to take out magic, which is integral to the setting, and the cool races, which are also integral to the setting, but even your low power argument is full of shit, Dark Sun PCs rolled stars different in such a way that they had higher averages and started at level 3.Plus, Conan is all about a dude who cuts down mooks like a scythe through wheat, what about Conan screams """low power"" to you. You're talking about all of the interesting things out of dark sun in order to poorly emulate a genre of fiction that you don't really seem to understand.
>>93947116Oh, and on top of that, EVERY PC in dark sun starts out with psionics? Have you ever actually read anything dark sun, or are you basing your opinion entirely on Brom's art?
>>93947116>>93947123I've read Howard's Conan stories and the pre-4e Dark Sun material, yes. Removing demihuman races and magic from player selection does not mean those things are removed from the game.
>>93946508I have a game ready to go but we're playing Spelljammer, right now.
>>93946561My campaign is original release only. Kalak is alive. Boris is the only dragon. How the world got this way is unexplained and the prism pentand is not fact.The players will start as gladiators at a farro and neep farm outside Tyr. They'll be purchased for the upcoming games. In the gladiator pens, they meet a maybe member of the veiled alliance. Then rumors of the dragon start up, just as the decennial rains hit. The farm gets flooded as the dragon nears, and the players get the opportunity to run w/ the veiled alliance guy. The scene that I'm excited for is the chase through a sandy valley. Inix riders pursue the players through a now-flooding wash-basin as suddenly the dragon is seen nearby and the players get the chance to lose the pursuers and maybe juke them into the dragon's zone of life-draining insta-death. Then they escape into Tyr with Veiled alliance guy. From there I've got 5 3 different scenarios if they feel like continuing on w/ the Alliance: find a way through UnderTyr into the Noble District, break old guy's daughter out of the slave pits, assassinate a noble. If they complete all three, eventually they get caught up in some undertyr yuan-ti shenanigans, but we'll see how it goes.
>>93947018>What about Dark Sun screams high level PCs to you? Dark Sun does. Literally the rules. Which are 5d4 for attributes and everyone starts at level 3.
>>93947226bUt DaRk SuN iS cOnAn!?!?!
>>93947325>>93946869>>93947018>>93947116>>93947146But Conan and the Hyborian age have nothing to do with dark sun.How does a post apocalyptic desert where iron is rare dominated by sorcerer kings have anything to do with howard's lost world !notEurope anachronistic hyborian age?Oh yeah that's right you haven't actually read anything howard wrote and are just bullshittingDark sun is far more mad max than it is conan
>>93947337It's almost like >>93946709 doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about.
>>93947337Some people read "Dark Fantasy" and they immediately think "low power low magic high attrition mud crawl." It's a sickness of the mind.Nothing about Conan *or* Dark Sun strikes me as particularly low power.
>>93947337>How does a post apocalyptic desert where iron is rare dominated by sorcerer kings have anything to do with howard's lost world !notEurope anachronistic hyborian age?To be fair to that anon, it does have a lot to do with the really excellent Oliver Stone film. I tried reading the Conan stories once but he's adjective and adverb happy in a way that honestly gets on my nerves.
93946508Check the catalog. There's 3 dark sun threads
>>93947226>attribute tables are the same in 5e as they are in 2e therefore how you generate attributes is the same>>93947337Is your claim that Dark Sun is not an attempt at making sword & sorcery fit into a D&D mold? That there's no anachronism in Dark Sun?>>93947391I haven't called Conan or Dark Sun "Dark Fantasy" but Conan would certainly not fit the high fantasy type of IP D&D wants to be.
>>93947425Reminder: you asked here >>93947018>What about Dark Sun screams high level PCs to you?The answer to that question is "literally the rules." Your "well but what if I make up different rules?" response is fine. But the answer to your question is "the published, official material for Dark Sun is what explicitly and specifically screams high level PCs." So that. The game itself. Dark Sun. The published material. That's what screams high level PCs.>Is your claim that Dark Sun is not an attempt at making sword & sorcery fit into a D&D mold?Dark Sun was an attempt to create excitement and interest in Battlesystem. >certainly not fit the high fantasy type of IP D&D wants to be.Yes it does. You can tell because it's part of the D&D IP.
>>93947425>attribute tables are the same in 5e as they are in 2e therefore how you generate attributes is the sameYou're missing the point, dipshit. You asked the question "what about dark sun screams high power to you?" Anon answered, the fucking mechanics of the dark sun, where starting characters were built to be higher powered than normal d&d characters. I'll ask you again, why do you want to run dark sun if you dislike everything about dark sun?
>>93947448>Dark Sun was an attempt to create excitement and interest in Battlesystem.It's very strange how much editorial direction was thrown behind battle system when it seems to be a really small foot note in d&d as a whole. It was a huge part of dragonlance too, if I recall correctly.
>>93947337>sorcerer kings aren't conan!>they're mad maxFuck off.
>setting has insect man, fallen cannibal halflings, desert sprinter elves, witch kings that use arcane science and black magic, magic is dangerous but all over the place, literally fucking everyone is psychic, and magic nukes destroyed the planet>Totally not high fantasy you guysIf I had a wish, it would be to erase the terms high fantasy and low fantasy from the English language.
>>93947469>It's very strange how much editorial directionYeah I don't know what that decision musta been about. Did they want Ral Partha to become competitive with Citadel? I'd be interested to learn about what was going on at TSR when the Battlesystem decisions were made. D&D's problem w/ miniature combat has always been "you'd need way too fucking many miniatures to cover all your bases." And some of us giant fucking nerds have tried. But I gave in and went gang-busters on the piece of shit wizkid plastics because you know what? Yeah that ten bucks is good enough for the one and only time I'm gonna need 15 Kua-Toa.
Why do you keep posting this as soon as the last one dies? Do you have some kind of brain problem?
>>93947425>Is your claim that Dark Sun is not an attempt at making sword & sorcery fit into a D&D mold? That there's no anachronism in Dark Sun?D&D pre 2e was literally sword and sorcery you retardWhy are you pretending that sword and sorcery wasn't around in D&D before dark sun?>>93947477The Hyborian age isn't a neolithic desert world ruled by sorcerer kings where iron is rare, retardAquilonia is medieval france with knights in full plate armor you worthless lying secondaryIt has nothing to do with dark sundark sun has more in common with mad max than it does with conan you ESL retard
>>93947487That's because you're using industry terms about how much it diverges from real life inappropriately to mean "high amounts of magic" and "low amounts of magic." Your problem is literally self-inflicted.
>>93947543That's not how I use it, that's how everyone else uses it, that's my fucking point.
>>93947542>snake priest was totally mad max>i'm smart and totally not born to a drunken whore who couldn't abstain from drinking while pregnant with my afs retard ass
>>93947448>>93947462I think you're not seeing the forest for the trees when it comes to the power level of Dark Sun--defiling magic is not the only change from "standard" D&D. Anyway, my point about attribute tables is that you get MORE power in 5e (which I'd unfortunately have to run because my players only play that system) compared to 2e, so scaling back to 3d6 in 5e would also scale back PC power somewhat. Secondly, 5d4 vs 4d6 drop low averages about the same. The difference is 5e4 will trend more toward the middle. I've never viewed DS as high power and I can't recall others making the claim that it is but I'll dust off my DS books and reread them before I attempt to run a game and try to see it from your point of view. The last time I bought a DS book was almost 30 years ago and last time I GMd a game for it was probably 25 years ago. Christ I'm gonna die soon.
>>93946869Dark Sun has much, much more in common with Den/Neverwhere and John Carter of Mars than Conan. People have to be basing their DarkSun = Conan comparisons on the covers of books they haven't read.
>>93948049>People have to be basing their [...] comparisons on the covers of books they haven't read.I mean ... it is /tg/ and that fits like a condom.
>>93946709>3d6 dtl dark sunYou fucking idiot. At least you're so meme based you'll never actually run anything.
>>93947542>Aquilonia is medieval france with knights in full plate armor You again.
>>93946508scan all settings and modules (1/2 edition only) at 1200 ppi
I want a new Dark Sun video game.
How do you guys feel about half giants and thri-kreen as player races?
>>93954722It's a mixed bag. The compensation for their being massively overpowered is that they're dumb. As in thri-kreen can't speak and halfgiants are repugnant idiots. As long as the players are fine with their characters being treated that way, I'm fine with them playing those characters. But if they want to play one as "normal character except way better" then I don't think it's gonna work out.So far my current group has been fine with the fact that their race impacts social situations. I think they'll be fine if we give Dark Sun a try, which is what I'd like to do for the next campaign or maybe start up with a slightly different group.
>>93946508Er.. sure but we have forgorten realms nowawadays, that has become even more diverse and inclusive, which is a good thing, so its a Net positive
>>93954794Yeah you basically just described why I don't like them, either as a player or (I would imagine) as a DM. I would never rule out the possibility of either one being played well, but I wouldn't count on it. I think they're both cool NPC races but that's how I'd prefer to keep them. I think the DS adaptations of the standard races are all cool and fun and interesting.
>>93946508I want to but I never got around to actually completing my Pathfinder conversion.
>>93946508How to run this in the Shadow of the Pooplord?
>>93957997I think a BRP or Mythras conversion would be more likely.
>>93953479They would just make it lame and gay.
>>93958370I've run Dark Sun in Mythras, it works amazingly well, allowing for a much greater focus on survival and intrigue rather than the set piece combat encounters and dungeon crawling that D&D is designed for. PC's started as slaves escaping from a caravan after their guards were slaughtered by Gith in the night.
>>93959637>PC's started as slaves escaping from a caravanOh yeah nobody's ever done this one before.
>>93960475>It needs to be new!Execution makes an idea good, not originality. No one is ever going to care about your "idea."
>>93960789It's cool m8. It's a classic for a reason. Just seemed like you were trying to present it as new.
>>93960812I'm not that anon and no he didn't. Your criticism is the criticism of hacks and those people who write screenplays at starbucks.
>>93960475>other people did this in their groups so you can't do it on yoursweird take, missing out on trying shit just because you read about it
>>93946508Last I remember Dark Sun was destroyed by Mary Sue "noblebright" nonsense where all thr bad wrong things were defeated by a group of chosen superheroes straight out of FR slop. If someone can't comprehend or enjoy a setting why don't they just ignore it instead of invading it and turning it into fucking cuddle world?
>>93960897You've read too many /tg/ threads and not enough source material. The Prism Pentad certainly sucked. But that's because it dispelled all the mystery and fun. Also the fact that it was written doesn't prevent anyone at all from simply ignoring it.
>>93960842>those people who write screenplays at starbucks.Pretty sure they won't turn their noses up at an idea for lack of originality, m8.
>>93960906You absolutely can wall yourself in to your own version of any setting, but calling that a solution for bullshit is itself bullshit.
>>93960906Fuck you, shill. Go look up the Oberoni fallacy.
>>93960842Suck my balls, nigga, I don't care.
>>93960812I am >>93959637Didn't mean to present slaves escaping a caravan as some original idea. I thought it best to use a classic campaign start when trying out Mythras for dark sun to test how well the system captured the tone of the setting. The previous Dark Sun campaign I ran, using 4e, had the party members fight to the death in a gladiatorial arena after everyone brought strikers. The winner kept their character, while the other three re-rolled. Then they got hired by the veiled alliance to raid a noble Defiler's treasure vault during the Starlight Pagent in Nibenay. In the middle of the heist they saw a flash of light caused by Raam being destroyed by Abalach-Re thwarting a rebellion attempt. They mistook it for an alarm system going off which added pressure to their break in attempt.Gladiatorial death-match followed by stealing from an evil sorcerers treasure vault might not be the most original campaign opening either. However, they did serve to establish the tone of the setting for players who hadn't played in it before and introduce background elements specific to the campaign in an organic manner.
>>93961126My point is that what you're saying has nothing to do with reality. You're just spewing ignorant nonsense you've heard on 4chan. You've clearly never read the source material. No: the dragons being genocidal warlords who are competing to destroy everything isn't "mary sues" and "noblebright," you meme regurgitating retard.
>>93961150That has absolutely nothing to do with you guys talking about a setting you're ignorant of.
>>93961791It literally tells double-digit IQ retards like you that saying "Oh the GM/DM can ignore/fix the bad stuff" is a fallacy.
>>93961821Which has nothing to do with the fact that no: Dark Sun is not noblebright nor full of Mary Sues, just because the Prism Pentad was shitty. That's not the ways in which it was shitty.
>>93961821Also by the way, that "fallacy" has nothing to do with ignoring the canonicity of novels, you fucking dipshit.
>>93961847>Metaplot DMPCs accomplish impossible shit in a setting where the PCs can't and aren't supposed to>Not full of Mary SuesOkay
>>93961708NTA you were talking to, but I can still tell you're having trouble breathing and doing a reading comprehension at the same time.
>>93962176One of the cool things about Dark Sun is that the PCs can are supposed to change the setting. That's sort of the point of roleplaying games. The fucking introductory adventure is about changing the status quo. That doesn't make the setting any less brutal, it just makes it actually interesting as opposed to 40k grimdark pointless bullshit.
>>93962655>The fucking introductory adventure is about changing the status quo.Actually that turned out to be the epic heroes from the novels, not you group of losers. Sorry.
>>93962176That's not what's wrong with the Prism Pentad. That isn't the problem anyone hates it for. Yep: the fantasy novels include the heroes defeating the badguys. That doesn't make them mary sues. The reason the Prism Pentad is hated by people who actually have read Dark Sun and play it is because it answered all the questions and removed all the mystery. Not because there were some mediocre dungeons and dragons novels.
>>93962670It sounds like ttrpgs aren't for you, bud. Have you tried World of Warcraft? That sounds like it might be more your speed.
>>93962655The heroes should always be able win battles in the Dark Sun world but should never win the war. I can't remember how the Prism Pentad ended exactly but it went too far for my liking.
>>93946508We did like a 7ish session playthrough a few years ago. I'm sure some people will find this lame, but we played characters who had ended up here from other planes, some recently some from a long time ago. Lots of complex roleplaying opportunities with things like a Paladin who still had divine powers and metal gear, or a sorcerer whose magic wasn't corrupted - these people did not fit into the world and had to really go out of their way to conceal themselves and their abilities in most situations. One party member was an old ranger from the setting so he was critical in our ability to get by.In the end we worked with a Sorcerer-King to access a unique planar portal, and some of the party members went through, some stayed hoping to influence the world. He helped us because he wanted rid of us lol.The DM did a good job of making the tone dark and painful, while working well with some more traditional fantasy elements the established characters brought into it.
We did a game in high school where we took captive a slave harem and devoted the game to growing it.The dm was the only girl and she kinda pushed us in that direction lol
>>93946508What is it about the Dark Sun setting that appeals to the autists who keep spamming it? Give one reason, mechanic-wise, why I should give a shit?
>>93967538Why does the reason need to be mechanical? Do you have autism?
>>93967538I tink punishing magic and crits breaking your weapon sound great when you're bored of 5e power creep
>>93967641because if it was just the setting lore they could play it in 5e as is
>>93967736Nah, while I don't buy the 5e memes as much as some folks do, it's not a great fit for dark sun, you have to whole cloth psionics and defiling magic at the very least.
>>93967736That's simply not true. Nothing in 5e lends itself to the punishing nature of Dark Sun. It's not any one discreet mechanic, it's a host of issues.>>93967538First question is dishonest, and subsequently cannot be answered, because the premise is false, as the setting does not appeal to autists and it is not being spammed.The answer to the second question is equally impossible due to the same dishonesty; the issue is not that you should care, but that you, for whatever reason, already do. Likely because you're an autistic retard.
>>93967538Cool and unique post apoc setting. The fact that Kenshi was such a hit with zoomer shows us that the autist longs for desert worlds.
>>93970658Novel worlds that speak implicitly to how you'd interact with the world and its people.
I remember a friend that wanted to play it kept talking about psionics, mindflayers and some weird races that completely killed any interest I could have on itmaybe the friend was just annoyingwhat are the good things about dark sun world/system ?
>>93971199I can tell you what got me hooked:The planet is wracked by an eco-apocalypse directly caused by the overuse of magic. Magic takes lifeforce, and unless you're a special hyperadvanced character, magic takes plant lifeforce first. So you think to yourself, what could have caused the people of Athas to kill their own planet by overusing magic? A genocidal war of course. Thousands of years prior, there was a war whose aim was to kill off every race in athas, except halflings. For the most part, it succeeded. There are no orcs, or gnomes, or fairies, because the lieutenant in charge of killing off that race succeeded. However, there are still humans, dwarves, and elves because those lieutenants didn't succeed before the lieutenants learned the truth and rebelled. See, most of the lieutenants were humans, and humans were bastard children born from halflings. The human race was also going to be included in the genocide once all the other races were taken care of. Why? Because the non-halfling mastermind saw the primordial age of the halflings as being the world's golden age, and he was willing to sacrifice everything else to forcibly return the world to that supposed golden age. Now, as I mentioned, this guy wasn't even a halfling, he was an OC race called Pyreen. Pyreen had features from all the standard fantasy races. They were supposed to be angelically beautiful, except this particular guy was ugly and none of the other Pyreen invited him to play Pyreen games. So the ugly Pyreen invented defiling magic that killed off the planet when used. 1/2
>>93972654And because of all this, Athas is a desert wasteland with self-deifying sorcerer-kings who grant their goon squads with magic like a clerical god, because none of the DnD gods can even reach the plane Athas is on. It's cut off from the DnD cosmology, leaving it as isolated a world as it could be. It's a brutal, punishing world where survival is just scraping by. It's hostile enough that the benign plant and animal life have all learned psionics by necessity to survive. Dragons exist, but they require a ritual to transform yourself into, and in 2e's books that ritual requires attaining level 30 in multiple classes. There's only 1 dragon in the canon, and he requires a yearly sacrifice of 10,000 living souls to hold back the seals on the aforementioned ugly Pyreen. It's a take on ancient mesopotamia, where people would sell themselves and their posterity into years of servitude to afford the basics (but also cutting edge) of civilization: clothes, shoes, a house, etc. The only thing it doesn't have is an undead workforce of people paying off the rest of their debts. You just do what you can because you might not live long enough to actually experience the consequences of your actions. It heavily inspired my own campaign, which has a similar desert theme, but incorporates a lot extra from other 90s media like Trigun and Xenogears (which each feature prominent desert planets and secret origin stories). It's very easy to play as a band of heores in this kind of world. Even some otherwise mundane things could bee seen as heroic when the land is so much more hostile than Grayhawk or Faerun. It offers a different experience to your standard medieval fantasy fare. Sometimes you've just had enough of the french countryside and take a trip to australia instead.
>>93972654I'm going to ask this and I expect people to think I'm taking the piss, but I've got to ask with complete sincerity.Was Rajaat based off Yakub?Think about it.
>>93972836Honestly I'd say by favourite thing about Athas is that its cut off.It's got zero multiverse bullshit involved in the setting, it stands alone.And my fucking god is that refreshing.
>>93967850>>93967868>That's simply not true.that's why I said the interest in Dark Sun has a mechanical aspect that can't be replicated in any D&D system. I have no clue why you responded so angrily.
Dark Sun has a lot of cool ideas that could be incorporated into an original setting. I wouldn't use it as is, because the metaplot is just too dumb.
>>93972979>Two people reply explaining why they are wrong>Gee golly guys why are you so mad?Fuck off
>>93972919The late 80s/90s "all settings are actually the same setting!" stuff really added nothing to the hobby.
>>93973293>The late 80s/90s "all settings are actually the same setting!" stuff really added nothing to the hobby.False.
>>93972919All that meant is some brainlet novel author decided to make it like every other generic high fantasy optimist setting as an inside job, with Prism Pentad.
>>93973562Spell Jammer is great, but I would prefer if it was it's own thing, and not a contrivance to connect d& d settings.
>>93973562Spelljammer should've been its own thing with a 'You can put your own setting in it if you like, wink wink' attitude
>>93973600>>93973579>Bro just remove all the content and it would be even betterNo.
>>93973624>Just remove all the contentYou're missing part of the sentence there>Just remove all the content from pre-existing setting that they didn't put a shitworth of effort into replicating and do original content for it insteadThere. That's a bit more honest.And yes, yes it would be better
>>93973661Ah I see. You've simply never read Spelljammer at all.
>>93946508>Depressing edgeslop>KinoCringe.
>>93973688Feel free to prove me wrong by presenting an actual point anon. Maybe you could even really kick it out the park Charlie Brown style and make an argument if you put on your big boy thinking cap and try really, really hard.
>>93946508Spelljammer is better.But yeah there is NO creativity at Wizards of the Coast.TSR had creativity but didn't know how to milk people for money, so they got bought out by ruthless capitalists.
>>93973746Spelljammer isn't about the other D&D settings. The references to them are contained within asides, side-bars and specific adventures. Spelljammer is a self-contained setting in D&D.Either:A. You're suggesting taking out anything D&D related, which again means "removing all the contentOrB. You've simply never in your life actually read any Spelljammer and are under the false belief that it's about the pre-existing campaign worlds specifically.One of those two things is true. Either way you're an idiot.
>>93973753>didn't know how to milk people for moneyGygaxed scammed half a dozen writers out of royalties tho
>>93973763Know what, we're talking past each other here. My main complaint is that by including the other settings as canon it turns the focus of most Spelljammer content from 'Jules Verne style space adventure in the style of planetary romance' to 'Look guys, people from the Dragonlance can go to the Forgotten Realms'This might just be personal taste, but I think Pathfinder of all things did it better with its 'Here's the solar system, have fun nerds' books.Give me more shit like the Astromundi cluster, that's all.
>>93973624So you think that "all the content" of spelljammer is... Other setting's content?
>>93947542woulden't argos be Greek city states?
>>93973921I think all its content is dependent on D&D, and other D&D settings are only mentioned in it in passing. So what are you talking about when you suggest removing content not unique to it? Removing anything related to D&D? That's all of it. Removing anything related to another campaign setting? That's literally one page of an appendix out of the 200 pages in the book. So either you're talking about removing one page in an appendix that has no impact on it, or you're talking about removing everything D&D which is all of it.
>>93974063>I think all its content is dependent on D&D, and other D&D settings are only mentioned in it in passing.You lying fuck, what exactly are the following supplements about:>Greyspace>Krynnspace>RealmspaceIn fact, to break it down the mainline books for Spelljammer are:>1 core book>2 books on Spelljammer mechanics (1 'How Ships ship' guide, 1 combat guide for ship-2-ship fights)>Astromundi Cluster: Which is the setting guide for an area>Lost ships, Practical Planetology, Rock of Bral - Dungeons, Setting design, home base>3 main campaign world books mentioned above>2 monster guides>1 book on travelling/exploring13 mainline books, excluding modules.Of which a 5th (23% to be more specific) are 'So let me redpill you on how to put Forgotten Realms in your Spelljammer setting.Look, you can bullshit all you want anon, it's a lovely, impressive pile of bullshit, I imagine your bulls are very well fed.But do you have to turn this board into a temple to the all encompassing, ever growing pile that you seem cultishly dedicated to?
>>93973770Maybe. But that only gets you like a couple thousand bucks. The real money comes from customers, and WOTC knows how to milk customers. TSR actually provided quality products for a reasonable price. Thats a guaranteed model for failure.
>>93974063Aside from what >>93974150 has said, I was very specific in what I said I wanted. I think Spelljammer is wish, I just don't like how it is used as a contrivance to connect other settings. It works better on its own. If you think this is somehow "taking out everything that spelljammer is," than you have brain worms my dude.
>>93974265>TSR actually provided quality products for a reasonable priceThis is a highly questionable sentiment.
>>93974295How so?
>>93974150And in those sections, what's the part on Toril? On Krynn? On Oerth? 1 column of one page. The page has how many columns? Three. So if the 3 planets that are those settings each occupy one column, and 3 columns make up one page, how many pages are occupied by the planets of those settings? Go ahead and do the math. That's 1/3rd plus 1/3rd, plus 1/3rd. How many total pages is that? You can do it anon, I believe in you. And if you want to argue the other planets in their system count please point out the place they're referenced in the campaign setting.
>>93973770How? Having a disagreement with 6 people is hardly what I'd call a scam, generally. If they had contracts and had evidence of this, how did they not get paid?
>>93975970If you bought an AD&D2e supplement, you would be very lucky indeed for it contain any dungeons at all.
>>93976205Why are you so deeply buttmad about this?
>>93975970There were a lot of bad supplements and games put out by tsr, especially in the later days.
>>93972919>zeroNot even remotely true. Or at least no more true than any other setting.
I got into D&D with that black box, the one with the big red dragon. And it was fun and I enjoyed myself and I eventually got the D&D rules cyclopedia and I got plenty of boxed and book supplements and I had a great time. TSR was wonderful for me. I enjoyed all the source material and never understood why people didnt like it. Aside from AC being inverted it was a good system. Ditto AD&D 2nd edition. And the artwork in all those books was fuckin awesome.3rd Edition was OK but not terribly necessary and you had to buy a shitload of new books even though not much changed except the core mechanics. But the source material was basically the same.4th and 5th edition are totally unneeded and just lazy cash grabs. I would not even bother pirating them, much less pay for them. WOTC is just greedy. They do not provide anything useful.
>>939788714th was fine enough as a comparatively unique product that would have been better served with more useful branding: a balanced, tactical combat wg2w2game.
>>93980344Please forgive my mobile posting mistake
Dark Sun is high lethality. It is AD&D2e, everything has instant kill and permanent stat boosts. The published modules make it clear it is high level munchkin gaming, though, which is unfortunate. The setting creators couldn't help themselves. I think many great ideas could be taken to create a more grounded setting where you explore the ruins of the ancient civilizations of the past. Tons of potential.And yes, I've played the setting. I shoddily converted it to 3e and forced my friends to play a campaign when I was a kid. I was obsessed with the old 2e video games when I was a kid, but 3e was out and all people knew how to play.
>>93981493*permanent stat drainThough due to that 5d4 stat roll, you do have a sort of permanent stat boost.
>>93981493>high level munchkin gamingThe fuck does that mean
>>93980344>>93980354Why would you saying that 4th was fine have anything to do with phoneposting? You're not forgiven.
>>93981493The issue from the get go was that the suits decided to let the creative team do whatever for a setting but never bothered to get writers and artists together once they agreed on a general idea. So the art sugests a certain playstyle that isn't there, and the game doesn't lead to the cool scenes in the art.
