Previously: >>94173885>OFFICIAL Commander website, where you can learn the rules, see the current banlist, and read the format philosophy, laid down by the rules committee:https://mtgcommander.net/>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the internet.http://www.edhrec.com/>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen color identity.http://mtglands.com/>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck strategy and card choices.http://www.tappedout.nethttps://www.archidekt.comhttps://www.moxfield.com>CARD SEARCHhttps://scryfall.com>Proxy a deck or a cube for cheaphttps://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM>how to proxy using any printerhttps://mtgprint.cardtrader.com/>Thread Question/Prompt:Why do so many players get so salty whenever you mill a few cards from their deck?
>>94180419Find a flaw.
>>94180419Reminder that there's no reason to not play recursion cards.
>>94180431Yeah, a simple one: He doesn't have black.
Any good commanders for a clairvoyant or fortune telling theme?I know there's that frog from Bloomburrow but it doesn't quite scratch the itch.
>>94180419>TQThey think of any good cards milled as cards you've denied them from using. And lord help you if you milled them a land and then they missed a land drop, they will blame you personally.
>TQLitmus test for bad deckbuilders and fools that expect to somehow draw their entire deck over the course of the game.When I'm playing without GY interactions, it's whatever.When with GY interaction, it's free shit.The only people that have a vague reason to be miffed is for decks that tutor things on top. Then again, it's on you for not instantly finding a way to draw it when you have a deck with black in their colour at the table
>>94180431as soon as anyone reads the "poison counters" line you'll probably have a hard time finding games irl
TQ:Ive tried my best to teach new players that mill isnt really a big deal since your deck is huge, and as long as you built it halfway competent, its not a issue. Combo piece gets milled? So what, your deck should still be able to function without it. Alternatively, your graveyard is a second hand if you run some graveyard recursion. People just get sad when they see something cool get milled, "but I could of drew into it!". Yea, but it could also of been cancelled, which is worse since you spent resources on the spell. So TLDR- I wanted to play that, but now I cant
Thirty (30) starting life is objectively superior to fourty (40)
>>94180498How about Eruth, Tormented Prophet?
>>94180419Because Commander is the most accessible mtg format. It has far more casual fans who want everyone to do their own thing while interacting very little with each other. Basically making the game a race with their own decks
I play something that recycles my library in every deck just in case i run into mill.
>>94180517>>94180520>>94180531Abject retards.Players hate mill because they're here to play the game. All effects that punish you for trying to play the game are universally despised. Additional costs, stax, sacrifice, and yes, mill.Mill in particular is absurdly cheap for what it does. The logic is that because you don't know how good the cards on top of someone's deck are, it should cost less to dumpster multiple cards than it would cost to counter them or destroy them on the field. This is also fucking annoying.>b-b-but you might never have drawn those cards at all!And yet, I would have. There they are, on the top of my deck.>t-t-the graveyard is basically a second hand, play more recursion!For some decks. For most decks, recovery is less of a priority and can't be slotted in on the off-chance that someone will be running mill.Not to mention the fact that it almost certainly costs more to pull something out of the grave than it cost you to mill it there in the first place.>b-b-but mill isn't even that good, it's harder to mill for 93 than to hit for 40!Great, so why are you fucking running it then? To be an asshole, invariably.
>>94180537Yeah that's kind of my back-up here, but it could be a little more thematic.I guess I'm looking for something that will let me scry a lot or maybe suspend? But it has to have that kind of prophet flavouring, dimir spying flavour won't cut it for me
>>94180564Elixir Of Immortality is the best go to usually, slots into any deck, gives you some life as well
>>94180589Maybe go play a game where you cant interact with your opponent then. Sorry to mill your dino timmy
>>94180607>gets milled
>>94180589You can still play the game even if you get 60+ Cards milled dipshit, do you panic when stuff gets milled? You shouldnt, you still have a deck, right? You said a whole lot without actually saying anything of value >>94180639 na (I always have it)
>>94180517You did deny them of using it? You milled it. You objectively took it away from them lmao. The only thing worse than people crying about kill are the ones who defend it dishonestly
>>94180639Thats why i play kozilek
>>94180589Is this bait or genuine retardation or not passing the litmus test? It's hard to tell these days. I thought the psychostimulant effect of mill causing seething which can only be remedied by not living in delusion, has already been talked to death and solved. Would someone really come into these threads to act retarded by making strawmen and then attacking those with flawed arguments?Disregarding all of that, what's your favourite 1-drop anons?
>>94180649o ye I forgot where I was
>>94180431Not golgari.
>>94180419TQ:Because any card that hits their GY was clearly the one they needed to win; in the same way if they miss a draw or a land or you counter a dork or really anything that affects their split coming down the track.A lot of players won't have backup strategies or compromises in their deck to make them more consistent and playable. They'll run searches and draw, but not recursion or protection.It comes down to a table/pod culture at the end of the day; if they're not learning when you teach them their lesson, that's on them. If, however, you're dunking with a turbo autistic optimized stax pile at a table of precons, you're just being a dick.
>>94180667Champion of the parish. I got into magic during innastrad and he was the turn 1 play of my first deck. Played with him a lot in modern.
>>94180498Intet the dreamer
>>94180667Birds Of Paradise, always happy to see it in my opening hand. Mana dork elfs too. Nothing special honestly
>”your graveyard is just another hand!” mfs when I flicker Bojuka Bog
>>94180627By interact you mean “shut down their game plan entirely” because the only way interaction would stop you getting milled when playing against a mill deck would be if you countered literally every mill effect.>>94180649I could still play the game for a turn with 1 card by your fucking logic.You said 60 so let’s go with that. I put those 60 cards in my deck because they are useful to me. If I could afford for them to be dumpstered, I wouldn’t have put them in there. You understand this. It is one of the advantages of mill, it is disruptive.Please be less of a disingenuous sped if you want to have this discussion.>>94180667The only one with flawed arguments here are the people defending mill for (You)s>>94180703>heh I’m just teaching you to play better!More disingenuous arguments.Why can’t you just be honest?>yeah I’m running mill because it is disruptive. I understand that even decks that have answers to what I’m doing can’t stop me every time I mill them, and any recursion they have will cost them more than it cost me to mill them, but dumsptering cards gives me a vindictive sense of power and control I’ve never felt since I grew up in a broken household
I LOVE the new instant speed reanimation spells!
Timmy posting is cracked today
>>94180738Are you okay? Do you need help?
>>94180779Its either bait or someone that shouldnt be playing magic. Id wager the former
>>94180738If you're facing a mill deck in a 99 card format and losing with consistency, your deck is garbage and needs adjusted or you're a genuine idiot. For all your crying your opponent could just build to Thoracle and trash you even faster without even interacting with your deck.Play better cards, play recursion or both. If you're not willing to, then find a table playing precons and stop crying.
>>94180814The question is why do people not enjoy mill not is mill good or viable or is it okay to mill. Fucking retard
>>94180667The mvp of my Yedora deck.
>>94180824Mind your language
>>94180824I already explained that dumbass. Keep up.
>>94180839Oops
>>94180839How?
>>94180843Not a single thing in the post I replied to even borders an explanation of anything lol
>>94180824They told you why its dumb to get mad at mill, and why newbies get butthurt from it. just like others have said. You are Just glossing over what you dont want to see
>>94180860Anon I have read the post THREE times now. There is no explanation for why people dislike mill. It's just attempting to attack the group in question ans say "ermmm build better decks". You and him are both moronic
>>94180854AAAAAAAAAAAHHHH
>>94180779>>94180782Any excuse not to engage with the points being made, typical.>>94180814It's not about losing, it's about you throwing chunks of my deck in the trash for significantly less than it would have cost you to counter or destroy the exact same cards, and less than it will cost me to get even a fraction of them back.It is a bullshit mechanic. You know it is a bullshit mechanic. That's why you never try to justify it in any way other than saying it's the other players problem for being affected by it.
>>94180874>argument so shit he has to resort to screeching to save faceHonestly a really smart move on your part anon!
>>94180874actually lost to this guy the other day. I had no anti mill strat in my deck because it's so rare. am I the asshole if I put a silverbullet in my deck just for that even if it doesn't synergise with the rest of my deck?
>>94180887Anon, you not fooling anyone. Why should I engage in discussion when you have only empty words. Just as empty as your deck.But seriously, go speak with a therapist instead of this clownshow
>>94180887Why are you acting like you need every single card in your deck to stay there? Most games dont even see you playing more then 25-30 cards per game, so whats the issue if cards you wont actually play that game get milled? Do you ever see experienced players get mad at mill? We all know the answer
>>94180854I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'll repeat myself only once:People get upset at mill because of how they assess the hypothetical outcome of a card being milled: Any card you mill was a card they were going to draw, so any good card that disappeared into the graveyard "shut down their game plan entirely" and stopped them from getting off their optimal four turn win combo. Instead of running counterspells, draw cards to offset losses, recursion, dredge effects, pseudo-dredge effects, delirium or descent effects, removal for continuing or repeatable mill effects, etc, they cry about it, like you're doing right now. >>94180887If you think that sucks, just wait until the kids at your middle-school you start running discard or exile from hand effects. Try not to pop a blood vessel, it's just a game.
>>94180921>hypothetical outcome>losing the top card of your library (the next card you would draw) is hypothetically denying you that cardNice explanation! Sadly I'm not as fucking dumb as you so I can see how bad it is lol>like I'm doing right nowActually I'm not. I have no issues with mill lol, you just made a shitty post, that had nothing to do with the topic cause you wanted to feel like hot shit.Doesn't even cover the fact that building your deck properly doesn't mean losing the next card doesn't suck. It's such an absurd exercise of misguided stoicism it's hilarious. You terrible players always do the same thing when mill is brought up>well it could've been any card that was milled!!!! You never knew you'd draw itExcept I would have. Reality > theory
>>94180917>so whats the issue if cards you wont actually play that game get milled?This same bullshit argument.Are you milling from the bottom of the deck? No, you're milling from the top. That's where the fucking cards I would get to play are. You are taking those cards and throwing them in the trash at bargain prices.Yet again another bait reply that refuses to engage with the fact that mill costs less than countering and destroying the exact same cards as well as costing you less than it costs me to get them back.You can see how that is an issue, it's why you keep avoiding it.
>>94180498
>>94180951Bump
Why is BOROS the worst dual color in EDH?
>>94181038>no good ramp>no good card draw>no good combosyou tell me
>>94181038>why is creature aggro bad in a multiplayer format with three times as many opponents with twice as much health
I wish it was an instant
>>94181013lomayo
>>94180419>TQmight as well ask why commander players hate interaction in general
>>94180945Outcome bias is when a person incorrectly judges the ethical ramifications of an action based on the quality of the outcome where the outcome is determined partially or wholly by chance.Player A has a deck full of cards. We're going to simplify things and say that half the cards in his deck at any point in time are "good" cards that he needs in the game right now, and half of them are "bad" cards that he doesn't need right now. Player B plays a card that causes him to mill 2 cards.In Scenario 1: Player A mills two good cards.In Scenario 2: Player A mills two bad cards.In Scenario 3: Player A mills one good card, and one bad card.In what scenario was Player B's mill effect most effective? You would be correct that in the long run Player A is at a greater disadvantage from having 2 good cards no longer available to be drawn into his hand. He now has, roughly, a 1% lower chance of drawing a 'good card' on his next draw (48 good cards remaining out of a total of 98 cards). However, Scenario 1 is not the only possible outcome, in a deck with 50 good and 50 bad cards, it is roughly equally likely that he would mill two bad cards, or one good card and one bad card; increasing his odds of drawing a 'good card' or retaining identical ratios.Naturally this abstraction doesn't hold for EDH, as cards are not just simply "good" or "bad", which is why a good EDH deck would be designed with a variety of options to allow it to accelerate into more good cards (in the event it didn't draw any), search out the good cards still in the library, return cards lost to the graveyard to their hand or library or be good cards in and of themselves, advancing board state and improving the chances of victory.
>>94181086Jesus christ. I genuinely hope you're samefagging, because you're spending a lot of effort arguing with someone arguing in bad faith with the goal to upset people.
>blue player is that guy in arguments whose like "yeah well I'll just counter everything">sit down to finally play>cast assassins trophy on his commander a single time>he has no mana for a response>scoops on the spot>literally the entire table is baffled and asking why he's scooping so early>"it's about tempo, realistically there's no way I come back"???? why are they like this???
>>94181086Did not read a word. If you mill me, I lost that card. There is literally no two ways about it. Them being good or bad cards dint matter. If you mill you have deprived me. Please engage with reality because I do not give a shit about your hypotheticals.Which by the way is the answer to the tq, people don't like mill because it's stealing cards away from them, objectively.
>>94180972I can't get her from the sites I buy from :(
>>94181060So do I. I want an excuse to run it, which I do, but it's much worse than Nightmare Incursion or Sadistic Sacrament for what I'm trying to accomplish with it. I suppose that Bitter Ordeal is better if an opponent has a single target counterspell that exiles countered spell if I get infinite recursions, but in almost all scenarios it's worse. I have to wrath first always to get any mileage of it.
>>94181115What about the position>milling takes cards away from peopleIs in bad faith? Or intended to upset people? 4chan has literally become one of the most feminine places in the internet holy fuck
>>94181115Like you have somewhere better to be. The TQ was about mill, I explained why mill feels worse than it is and the autistic screeching got louder. You can either screech with them or carry on with your day.
>>94181135Takes one to know one. You want it in the butt that bad, sissypants?
good morning, just prepped a new deck for cedh tonighttq: their fault for not running mill wincons
I fuckin love these fuckers
>>94181147The autistic screeching is One guy
>>94180537>>94180713>>94180972Thank you for your replies, I was doing my own digging at the same time and I think pic related is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. Not ecstatic that he's simic, but the effect is pretty much ideal.If you have any alternatives to this guy in other colours, please tell me. If not, thanks for your suggestions.
>>94180667
>>94180589never seen anyone be anti-mill and not schizo lmao
>>94181147If I get milled, I cherish the fact that I get access to more cards and opponent is essentially grouphugging me. If the opponent exiles my bin and there's at least one land there, I shame them excessively for essentially playing Armageddon and brand them as Tier 4 player.
>>94181196>concisely explain exactly why people hate mill>absolutely no refutation of the points, just insults and saying "skill issue"
>>94181184Damn this nigga needs to exile a salad
>>94181134Yeah I only run it in Umbris but I should probably switch it for Sadistic Sacrement. I've never had it, a board wipe and enough mana for both. Being able to grab all 3 opponents' combo piece, win con or silver bullet on 2 copies is really nice though.
>>94181172That's one ugly deck footfag.
>>94181205Deserved.
>>94181205yeah ppl hate mil because they r bad at the game.
>>94181172Clones are dead. Long live RogSihttps://edhtop16.com/tournaments
>>94181184Why did they make Alaundo this retarded fat black ugly specimen?
>>94181206I foresee two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.
>>94181174Do you think they interact?
this is my favourite pet card that I will jam into any deck that can put 2 or more permanents on field every turn. it has caused a many groans when good cards get randomly milled by it and a lot of funny archenemy situations because the nature of annoying mill.I love my little altar so fucking much.
>>94181230thanks but im more of an assman myself
>>94181211I run it in my Xiahou Dun and the only reasons I run it is because I have a foil of it and technically it's a wincon, if I manage to get an infinite mana combo with my commander, so I could just exile all opponent's libraries, but at that point even Sign in Blood becomes a wincon, and besides, it's a stretch anyway, since it's a convoluted infinite and I run no tutors aside from like Jens and Praetor's Grasp, if those count as tutors.
>>94181290Nah I just like Etali and HakkoPakko as separate commanders
>>94181294Last friday I assembled a synergy piece of sorts, it had that card, Syr Konrad and Bladewing, Deathless Tyrant, but unfortunately Syr Konrad got exiled fast and Altar also got removed, but it was fun while it lasted. I did get at least 13 zombies every time Bladewing attacked, and Konrad was equipped with something that gave him lifelink, I forgot which equipment it was.
>>94181294>feeding every other player on the table at expense to yourselflolwut
>>94181038Boros actually isn't too bad. There are plenty of neat tricks in Boros to circumvent many of its weaknesses, but you need to do some lateral thinking to discover them. E.g. there's a tutorable infinite with Sunforger alone that most people don't know about.
>>94181117blue control is like baby's first deck so they don't grasp the true nature of the game and act autistic like this instead
Gay Bolas
What are the best sleeves right now? I always got dragonshields in the past but heard they aren't good anymore
>>94181117Holy noobtard. How do you be both this autistic and this bad at the game at the same time? I thought extreme autism was supposed to make you good at mtg
Legendary creature art that goes hard
Unban Mana Crypt
>>94181450(Legen)dary
>>94181428
>>94181441Sadly the only thing extreme autism makes people good at is losing friends
On a scale of bracket 0 to 4, how big will MTG Final Fantasy Tifa japanese fractured scribbled rainbow foils titties be?
>>94180951Anon, how often do you shuffle your deck during games? And would you rather 5 cards you try to play get canceled, or would you rather mill 5 cards? How about 5 cards discarded?
>>94181117Because control players are the worst type of players in every aspect of the game. I despise Early game scoops. Late game when it's obvious a player is gonna win? Ok fine. Early game after 1 hickup? Cowardice.
>>94181117>It's all about tempo>Control player has no idea of how to regain tempoDoes this guy just concede if you resolve a 1drop in Modern?
>>94181375What's the combo? I run a Mardu legendary matters equipment deck, fairly fun but no real infinites
>>94181038I think Rakdos and Orzhov are similar to Boros if you cut tutors from your decks.>>94180667Wayfarer's Bauble>>94181489My experience is most autistic people are self-aware and try not to make a scene or apologize once they calm down. Most people who I've seen exiled are legit just shitty people.
>>94180887Have you tried just making a good deck with more than a single finisher, then completely ignoring the mills?>Oppenent spends mana and cards to mill me>Some good cards go into the graveyard>The rest of the deck is also good cards>I am ahead because I spent nothing It really is that easy
>>94180431He needs to be a secret commander.
>>94181522>And would you rather 5 cards you try to play get canceled, or would you rather mill 5 cards? How about 5 cards discarded?For the most part, it will absolutely cost you more to get rid of my cards in any way other than mill.I have already said ITT, for some fucking reason the game designers think that the fact you don't know what's on top of my deck when you dumpster cards means it should cost significantly less than countering, destroying, or discarding. It is completely unbalanced. My biggest problem with mill is the fact that it's a fucking bargain. If you were having to pay through the nose to throw away chunks of my deck, it would be a different story. But it's probably attached to a trigger you will get multiple times a turn, certainly multiple times a rotation, meanwhile what I have to pay to counter/remove it is probably about equal, and what I have to pay to get ANYTHING back (since getting it all back is almost certainly out of the question unless I'm running Elixir of Immortality or some shit) will be several times what it cost you to trash it.>>94181640>le skill issue bait
>>94181038Sounds like someone just died to Haktos or Feather
>>94181548I've won a surprising amount of times solely because my early engines get removed and the midgame things gone from boardwiped, only to in the lategame whip out explosive spells when there's not enough removal to stop me anymore. If the 3 players are struggling for presence with each other and I, with a grip full of cards, cast a Rise of the Dark Realms with no counters to meet it, it's done.
>>94181662>discard is the same as mill>counter is the same as millDamn. I never knew you could cast spells directly from your entire deck at any time. You really got me there
>>94181662You have issues and I'm not talking about mill
>>94181522NTA but for me, in order from least concerned to most concerned it would be:>Canceled 5 cardsFor them to cancel 5 of MY cards means they either spent mana or cards (most likely both) targeting me and not advancing THEIR game plan and also removing potential problems from other opponents. Even if they're somehow doing for free, they're showing themselves as a threat to others and becoming ArchEnemy.>Mill 5 cardsThey are cards I could have drawn and used, no matter if they were good cards or bad. If you disagree with the fact that having 5 more cards to use in your deck better than 5 less, you are being a disingenuous liar and I don't know why anyone should debate you at this point. Yes, there are plenty of ways of returning or playing those cards in the graveyard but most decks aren't geared to it or have many cards to enable it and to argue otherwise is again, disingenuous.>Discard 5 cardsThose where cards I already drew and made plans for. And now they are gone. There are even LESS decks build around you just dropping cards from your hand straight into the trash and less people add cards to negate that sort of play. It also completely disrupts how the whole table plays, because rather than use any sensible strategy, most people just dump as much as they can, as fast as they can, so they don't have to discard shit. Discard turns players into panicking cows and that fucks with ME, so eat shit.
>>94181724>If you disagree with the fact that having 5 more cards to use in your deck better than 5 less, you are being a disingenuous liar and I don't know why anyone should debate you at this point./edhg/ never fails to amazeTell me, anon, in competitive magic, where your deck size has a minimum limit but not a maximum, how many cards are in most competitive decks?
>>94181724This is terrific bait desu
>>94181749This is retarded and doesn't even address what the guys saying. Whether your deck is 60 cards or 250 cards having cards taken away is objectively bad.
>>94181720>durr the fact you can't cast them right this moment means it should cost me less to throw them in the trash!!!!Yeah no. They're all cards I have access to. I can't necessarily cast a card in my hand either. Should you get to pay less to make me discard a card that I wouldn't have been able to cast? No. It just doesn't make good game design sense that cards I could only use in future should cost you almost nothing to throw in the trash, especially when I will have to pay more than that cost to get even one of them back if I needed it
>>94181662You think milling is a bargain? Have you looked at the unbalanced shit that's the eldrazi titans. I Spend 5 mana to mill half your deck and suddenly just for the the cost of existing, you gain 50 cards out of nowhere. That's infinitely more powerful. Do the math.
>>94181724>NTAProve it. I don't believe you
>>94181779Cool remind me to never play anything but Eldrazi in case you bring a mill deck. That's a solution right?
How do y'all feel about akkido/pillow fort decks?
>>94181804Don't hit me.
>>94181779Do the math and tell me how many deck run the titans. Does every one of yours, just in case you run into a mill deck? Why is /edhg/ so disingenuous?
>>94181818Do the math yourself and tell me how many decks you run into are mill decks. Why are you so disingenuous?
>>94181804I have one that I play a bunch and the more I play the less I think I want pillowfort stuff like Ghostly Prison and more I just want efficient Deathtouch blockers. Make it annoying enough to swing in to you with small stuff without saying "Nah nah you can't hit me" Then hopefully have your Deflecting Palm or whatever for when they swing something big at you.
>>94181818It's millfags. They can't just say that the mechanic is unbalanced, they have to deflect by saying it's your problem if you're not prepared for their very specific strategy or that other strategies are also bad.>>94181830Right so by your own logic, it's actually even more unreasonable to expect people to be prepared for your mill then?
>>94181789Whether or not it's the same anon doesn't matter lol. Seems you've been thoroughly refuted
>>94181767>doesn't even address what the guys sayingIt's a direct quote that's a self contained sentence.>Whether your deck is 60 cards or 250 cards having cards taken away is objectively bad.A 55 card deck is better than a 60 card deck is better than a 245 card deck is better than a 250 card deckYou have brain damage
>>94180431>Extremely telegraphed and predictable>draws an irrational amount of hate towards you that is unproportional to the amount of power Fynn provides you.
>>94181861>They can't just say that the mechanic is unbalancedWhen was the last time mill was a competitive strategy? If mill is so good, why aren't you running mill? What the fuck am I reading?
>>94181867>A 55 card deck is better than a 60 card deck is better than a 245 card deck is better than a 250 card deck>I'm actually helping you by giving you less cards to work with!Again with the fucking lies. Why do you have to tell yourself this bullshit? If you thought milling was giving your opponents an advantage you wouldn't be playing it.
>>94181804It's a bad control archetype. It's fine at lower power levels, but at 7-10 you may as well not exist.
>>94181861No man. I play against mill pretty much every night. Why else would I play every eldrazi titan in multiples decks? It's not like people can distinguish well made proxies over spelltable
>>94181867No? You're literally just saying things right now. A deck is built around certain ratios and numbers of certain cards. Whether it's a 30, 60, 100 or 1000 card deck if you are good at building there is a pattern and play lines within it. A 30 card one is t necessarily better than a 60 or 100 card one that's an absurd claim. And no matter the deck size, losing cards TAKES AWAY RESOURCES AND MESSES WITH YOUR DECKS CONSTRUCTED PLAN.Unbelievably fucking stupid, two posts and you haven't said anything just jerked yourself off because you mistakenly think you're smart.
>>94181876>When was the last time mill was a competitive strategy? If mill is so good, why aren't you running mill?Fuck sake, do we have to keep going in circles? Here: >>94180887>It's not about losing, it's about you throwing chunks of my deck in the trash for significantly less than it would have cost you to counter or destroy the exact same cards, and less than it will cost me to get even a fraction of them back.>It is a bullshit mechanic. You know it is a bullshit mechanic. That's why you never try to justify it in any way other than saying it's the other players problem for being affected by it.
>>94181899The ratios don't change when you half the deck. Thoroughly refuted. I'll claim this win.
>>94181911Why are you defending that mill is good then?
>>94181915Well first off its a glld thing 99% of mill cards don't do half. And second off that doesn't add up, because a random half is being milled, not 50% of each part of the ratio. Again, you are very stupid, stop trying. Mill is annoying! It was intended to be annoying by the designers
>>94181923THE TQ AND THE DISCUSSIONS IS WHY DOES MILL BOTHER PEOPLE IT IS NOT ABOUT HOW VIABLE OR EASY TO PLAY AGAINST IT IS YOU FUCKING NIGGERBRAINED RETARD
>>94181925The random half is average on average. Bam. Galaxy brain. You can quote me on that
>>94181899>tonight on /edhg/ antimillfags claim they can build a better 1000 card deck than any possible 30 card deckyou can't make this shit up lol>>94181911>It's not about losingIt is about losing though.
>>94181935Why we bringing up something unrelated like the TQ right now. We've been discussing the viability of mill
>>94181935I never once referred to the thread question, you replied to my (NTA) post which referred to one isolated statement. That statement had nothing to do with the TQ.Try to keep up.If you were able to follow a conversation you'd probably be able to understand why mill isn't that good either
>>94181937Ah it's a discord zoomie. My apologies for wasting my time
>>94181963You are just upset because you lost the argument which is why you can only respond with insults
>>94181923>Why are you defending that mill is good then????????????????Where have I said that.I'm saying mill is hated. Whether it is a good or bad strategy is fucking irrelevant, it's about how it feels to play against. It feels bad because it is undercosted for the impact it has and interferes with players' ability to play the game. If you need a refresher my key points are here:>>94180738>>94180589>>94181941>It is about losing though.No, it's about how it feels to play against.If you played a card that let you whip your micropeen out and rub it in a players face every time you deal them damage, you're not anymore likely to win games, but be amazed at how no one wants to play against that card anymore.
>>94181956>>94181954The entire discussion started with someone responding to the TQ about why mill is annoying. That's the discussion, never once did he even approach it's viability.
>>94181979Nothing in that post was an insult and you fundamentally don't understand numbers lol
>>94181981You been blasting this entire thread about how op mill is. Now you're moving goalposts
>>94181982>The entire discussion started withThe entire discussion started with someone saying>It's millfags. They can't just say that the mechanic is unbalancedDefend your statement or fuck off.
>>94181994Whatever makes you feel better anon. I can agree to pretend we both won
How is Krenko not banned with how insane the ability is if no one top decks removal?>Turn 1 play goblin>Turn 2 play goblin>Turn 3 play goblin>Turn 4 Krenko, have 8 goblins>Turn 5 Krenko, 16 goblins+>Turn 6 Krenko, 32 goblins+>Turn 7 Krenko, 64 goblins+>Turn 8 Krenko, 128 goblins+And that is the bare minimum.
>>94182004>>Turn 4 Krenko, have 8 goblinssir, your summoning sickness?
>>94181996The person you are replying to is right here anon>>94181981It's quite clear by the first sentence in the first post he's talking about why people hate mill lmao
>>94182004Damn. Chieftain demoted to just a goblin
>>94181994>You been blasting this entire thread about how op mill is. Now you're moving goalpostsYou fucking wish. I have literally linked you the first 2 fucking posts I made on this subject. Look, here they are again in case you're literally fucking blind:>>94180589>>94180738If you can find a single instance of me saying it's overpowered or a competitively successful strategy, let me know. Because I'm pretty sure the question was "why do players hate it" and my answer was "it fucks with people's ability to play the game and is much cheaper to do to someone than it is for that person to undo it"
>>94182009
>>94182004Funny post, anon. Too bad it will be buried by the retarded mill discussion.
>>94182018Aint reading that one. Not until you read>>94181086It's the way you behave, it implies an aura of thinking mill is op. If it acts like a dog, if it barks like a dog, it is a dog. You're a mill-is-op'er
>>94182018>If you can find a single instance of me saying it's overpowered>It's millfags. They can't just say that the mechanic is unbalancedDefend your statement or fuck off
>>94181990Cool. I think you have below average intelligence. That's also not an insult. Just fact.
Mill isn't op. Combo players just get butthurt when you Mill their exodia pieces.
>>94182004>player who comes online gets to win when three separate people can’t find a single removal spellmany such cases. What’s the issue? Simply play better
I tried but I literally can't stop thinking about edhI fucking hate this
>>94182034>"you're moving the goalposts!!!!">no I'm not, here's the exact posts I made at the beginning of this discussion>"I'm not reading that"Classic.>>94182042Why do you think "unbalanced" means good or powerful? It means fucking unbalanced. As in, the cost you pay to mill me is significantly less than it should be when we compare it to destroying or discarding and the cost for me to recover it.As I fucking said from post 1: >>94180589>Mill in particular is absurdly cheap for what it does. The logic is that because you don't know how good the cards on top of someone's deck are, it should cost less to dumpster multiple cards than it would cost to counter them or destroy them on the field. This is also fucking annoying.And I'll hit you with another repeat: >>94181981>>It is about losing though.>No, it's about how it feels to play against.>If you played a card that let you whip your micropeen out and rub it in a players face every time you deal them damage, you're not anymore likely to win games, but be amazed at how no one wants to play against that card anymore.That effect should cost a billion fucking mana and require you to chop off a finger. Is it a powerful strategy? No. Is it undercosted at 2 or 3 mana? Yes.
>>94180517This is correct.>>94180589Mill doesn't stop you from playing at all, if anything if makes it easier to play. Decks with pure mill strategies are playing a losing race againat life, but there are lots or reanimate decks that also mill and have a purpise for doing so. The last game I play I was using my Master Transcendant deck, and just barely won because I milled someone for a Grey Merchant.
>>94182086Unbalanced = powerful. We've already established that. Keep up with definitions. don't you have a dictionary?
>>94180589>here to play the game>NO NOT LIKE THAT>YOU CAN ONLY INTERACT WITH ME IN THE MOST PREDICTABLE WAY POSSIBLE
>>94182086A card in the library is less valuable than a card in the hand or on the battlefield/stack . That's why it costs less to remove.
>>94182102>Mill doesn't stop you from playing at all, if anything if makes it easier to play.Round and round in circles we go. >>94181882>>A 55 card deck is better than a 60 card deck is better than a 245 card deck is better than a 250 card deck>>I'm actually helping you by giving you less cards to work with!>Again with the fucking lies. Why do you have to tell yourself this bullshit? If you thought milling was giving your opponents an advantage you wouldn't be playing it.>>94182105>Unbalanced = powerful. We've already established thatKek you mean you're fucking asserting it now because you realize that you misunderstood despite all my posts laying out exactly what I was saying.I'll say once a-fucking-gain:>>If you played a card that let you whip your micropeen out and rub it in a players face every time you deal them damage, you're not anymore likely to win games, but be amazed at how no one wants to play against that card anymore.>That effect should cost a billion fucking mana and require you to chop off a finger. Is it a powerful strategy? No. Is it undercosted at 2 or 3 mana? Yes.
>>94182122You means you misunderstood your own posts. If something is so undercosted, you'd have to be retarded to think it's not overpowered.
>>94182122God I wish I played against you with my surgical extraction deck. You sound like such a bitch.
>>94182080All things pass in time.
>>94182004>>Turn 2 play goblinhow about TWO goblins?
>>94182142
>>94182118>here to play the game>too bad if you wanted to play tonight, I figured I'd just have you cut your deck in half and throw it in the trash for far less than it would cost me to actually have to react to what you have>>94182119Circles. >>94181770>>durr the fact you can't cast them right this moment means it should cost me less to throw them in the trash!!!!>Yeah no. They're all cards I have access to. I can't necessarily cast a card in my hand either. Should you get to pay less to make me discard a card that I wouldn't have been able to cast? No.>It just doesn't make good game design sense that cards I could only use in future should cost you almost nothing to throw in the trash, especially when I will have to pay more than that cost to get even one of them back if I needed it>>94182136I'm just going to keep giving you this example until you actually come up with an argument.Undercosted and unbalanced do not mean something is powerful, it means it costs less than it should and undoing it costs more comparatively>>If you played a card that let you whip your micropeen out and rub it in a players face every time you deal them damage, you're not anymore likely to win games, but be amazed at how no one wants to play against that card anymore.>That effect should cost a billion fucking mana and require you to chop off a finger. Is it a powerful strategy? No. Is it undercosted at 2 or 3 mana? Yes.
>>94182086Kinda weird fetish to be talking about. Is there something you want to say about that?
>>94181661He is in my 5c party-deck along with Zagras and archetype of imagination
>>94182163oh wait this is the guy who gets off on being humiliated again isnt itMr. tapping isnt a costMr. Atraxa is a cedh powerhouseI guess now it's also Mr, Mill bad
>>94182163
>>94180419>TQDecks that win by decking you out are annoying, but decks that gain value from milling instead of winning through mill like The Wise Mothman are fine and players that whine about their cards being milled aren't thinking rationally.I think of milled cards as either potential resources or as cards that might as well have been on the bottom of my deck never to be drawn for all I care.
>>94182166>>94182179I'd love it if you could respond to a single point against you instead of deflecting every single time.>it's a skill issue!>you're a schizo!>it's not even a good strategy anyway!>I'm actually helping you by giving you less cards!>it's a fetish!Imagine losing so fucking badly that you start wheeling this shit out
>>94182163It costs 2 mana to mill 10 cards. Swords to plowshare is the best removal in the game and it removes 1 card. Glimpse the unthinkable is 10 StP's. And even better, it doesn't remove just creatures. How are you so retarded that you don't see that?
>>94182163Maybe you would having more fun just goldfishing by yourself if working against other player's cards is going to give you an aneurism.
>>94182119A card in the library is less valuable than a card in the GY but it's easier to remove the later, that's an incidentally correlated metric.>>94182163>Undercosted and unbalanced do not mean something is powerful(you)
>>94182187so it's 100% the humiliation thing, got it.
>>94180419>Why do so many players get so salty whenever you mill a few cards from their deck?Because they’re retarded and they can’t comprehend the concept of randomness
>>94180498this or elminster
>>94182189>>94182189>It costs 2 mana to mill 10 cards. Swords to plowshare is the best removal in the game and it removes 1 card.What point do you think you're making right now?>>94182196Maybe you would have more fun in an argument you could win. Or even just one where you had any points to make in the first place.>>94182207>>Undercosted and unbalanced do not mean something is powerfulYeah, I've even explained to you why they're not synonymous. Look, here it is again:>>>If you played a card that let you whip your micropeen out and rub it in a players face every time you deal them damage, you're not anymore likely to win games, but be amazed at how no one wants to play against that card anymore.>>That effect should cost a billion fucking mana and require you to chop off a finger. Is it a powerful strategy? No. Is it undercosted at 2 or 3 mana? Yes.
>>94180419>TQI think it's because they have to watch those cards hit the grave. Even if most of the time the majority of cards in a deck won't see play so outside of reanimation or other graveyard play decks it doesn't often make much a difference whether they are millled or just stay in the deck, they still feel like they lost out by having a card milled.
>>94182160Once cast this on a dude's walker deck and removed almost all of them. He was not happy and I ended up losing, but it just had to be done. lol
>>94182230Too stupid to even understand a counterargument. How about you first refute me, before claiming that mill is OP
>>94182246>before claiming that mill is OPKeep fishing for (You)s, I'll even give them to you because I enjoy reminding you I've already debunked your bullshit. Oh look, there it is:>>94182086>Why do you think "unbalanced" means good or powerful? It means fucking unbalanced. As in, the cost you pay to mill me is significantly less than it should be when we compare it to destroying or discarding and the cost for me to recover it.>As I fucking said from post 1: >>94180589 (You)>>Mill in particular is absurdly cheap for what it does. The logic is that because you don't know how good the cards on top of someone's deck are, it should cost less to dumpster multiple cards than it would cost to counter them or destroy them on the field. This is also fucking annoying.
>>94182246this is a man who intentionally shits up threads to feed his humiliation fetish, please stop interacting with him.
>>94180589Lmao get a load of this retard. The cat is alive and dead until you look at it.
>>94182243Lobotomizing someones deck is satisfying
Mill isn’t removal anon. Cards on top of the library aren’t accessible to the opponent until they draw them. Until then they may as well not exist. Next time learn what card advantage is before you go and make a fool of yourself
>>94181804Completely fine unless you're actually just playing superfriends which is cringe and boring to play against (you need as many counterspells as they have wraths and walkers with loyalty ability that kills creatures).
>>94182058My IQ is 143 so very doubtful anon
>>94182264A card on the top of my deck is the next card I will draw until something removes it. When you mill me, you remove that card.Schroedingers cat was an example of why quantum uncertainty does not extrapolate beyond the quantum. There has never been an observation of quantum uncertainty affecting macro-scale objects in the way proposed.The whole uncertainty principle was a compromise in the first place, there was randomness in the mathematics and physicists at the time took the radical view that all of classical physics should be thrown out and the mathematical uncertainty be accepted as reality and not just a feature of the math. There is good reason to reject this as we know Einstein's equations mathematically allow for whiteholes even though none have ever been observed while millions of blackholes have beende Broglie-Bohm pilot wave theory also provides for a classical explanation of particle physics that doesn't include uncertainty, so you shouldn't take the Copenhagen Interpretation to be fact, it is merely what has been popularized.
>>94182309are you sure it isnt 14.3?
>>94181804Aikido players are cringe because the only commander that exists to them is Marchesa, who is arguably a mediocre commander for the archetype
>>94182324Quite :D
>>94182326>Aikido The only other person I have ever heard use that term is the guy from Top and Gohttps://youtu.be/IAPNU_0STJ8?si=Ds6a46TdmFymAcbHDamn I love this era of edh.
>>94182311Genuine question: would you be upset if I blindly used pic related on you?>inb4 yes because I have small hands and it’s a hassle
My dad works for hasbro and he said they're going to unban mana crypt and they're going to reprint it again in q4 2025 screen shot this
>>94182349Tell your dad to call his boss a faggot for me
>>94182345No because you still have a top card of unknown quality available to you. Mill is annoying because it is taken away from you.
>>94182357I'm so fucking sick of kraft dinner though we all really need this job
>>94182349>screenshot thisWe are still all owed $100 each and a video on Anon KYSing himself because Razaketh, the Foulblooded never ended up being bannedI'm not falling for this bullshit again
>>94182358>you still have a top card of unknown quality available to youThe same is true after I mill you
>>94182345Reordering cards is not the same as impeding my ability to play them. I know you understand this.The point isn't that there is a specific card on the top of my deck that I want/need, it's that my deck is full of cards I put there to play. When you mill you impede my ability to play them, when you shuffle them, you don't.You also understand that mill is never just 1 card. If you milled one fucking card all game, no one would care. The point is you're actively out to dumpster as much of my deck as you can with the intention that it will disrupt me.I know you understand.>>94182358This is not me.
Please stop replying to the humiliation fetishist, you are only making it worse.
>>94182382Not part of your argument, but I've been in these generals for months now and you always fucking say this when you lose. If I went to the archives right now how many times do you think we'd see the exact same posts?
I like to start every edh night with this chad and see who cries like a faggot and who pulls out Slimefoot and Squee
>>94182069>mill an exodia piece>i revive it for (almost) free>even if you exile it, i still have 5 exodia's left arm in my deckhehe, thanks for the second hand (gy) anon-kun
>>94182368>take a card away from me>no anon I just replaced itWhat a retarded post.
What is everyone's main deck?Do you specialize in one deck, or do you play many decks?We have a couple of local kids that have huge budgets and just buy over priced netdecks but never seem to understand what to do with them.
>>94182370>When you mill you impede my ability to play them, when you shuffle them, you don't.In most games you don’t see more than half of your library. This means the bottom 50 cards are “unavailable to you” in the same way that milling random cards are. If I force you to shuffle, I’m forcing you to put 50 random cards on the bottom of your library that you won’t have access to this game. How is that different?
>>94182413This is literally true. I couldn’t have made the argument better myself.
>>94182432But it's not true. The card is in my graveyard, I don't have access to it naturally and it objectively would have been the next card in my hand. You have taken a resource away from me. The argument is against you and anyone with half a brain can see that anon
>>94182426>In most games you don’t see more than half of your library. This means the bottom 50 cards are “unavailable to you” in the same way that milling random cards are.And those are not the cards you're milling. You're milling the ones that would be my next draws.>If I force you to shuffle, I’m forcing you to put 50 random cards on the bottom of your library that you won’t have access to this game. How is that different?If I have a bag of skittles, and exactly 1 skittle will be the next one I pull from the bag, you taking the bag and mixing it up has not deprived me of any of my skittles. If you take a handful and dump them in the trash, you have deprived me of my skittles.Again, and I know you do understand this but find some weird pleasure in being obtuse, it is not that the specific card is of some unique value to me, it is that all of my cards are of value to me as I chose to put them in the deck. When you mill them you are removing them and impeding my ability to play the game as I had intended when I built the deck. When you shuffle them you are not.
I get it now, this guy relys on Visions-era 1cmc tutors and can't cope that he got meta'd
>>94181863You know there's more then just 1 anon that realized thru actual experience,and with good reason that mill is a boogey man that in reality isn't a big issue at all, right? Most of us that are in this discussion think mill isn't worth worrying about. As other anon said - litmus test. I couldn't care less if I get milled. Why? Because I still have 50+ cards in my deck that work fine without the milled cards. I know this because I have actually played against mill decks
>>94182488I get it now, this guy sits on the sidelines of arguments and creates bizarre fantasies about the people involved to fish for (You)s because he really is that desperate
>>94182500>dude doesn't get a (you) this time>projects
>>94182420At some point my GW Craterhoof hatebears deck went from >whoa hey I didn't expect selvala to be that spicy to>YOU CANNOT PLAY THAT DECK AT THIS TABLE despite the fact that the deck is way less powerful relative to the new decks in the format. I've been searching for something to replace it and been tinkering with some mono red decks but nothing has really stuck.
>>94182394oh so you admit that it IS you who is purposefully shitting up these threads on a regular basisI am vindicated.
>>94182453I think you you are a bitch that crys about losing.
>>94182497Again, the topic is why is silly annoying/salty. Not is it good, or viable or whatever. Mill is annoying because it deprives you of resources.
>>94182528To be fair, his posting style is very distinct
>>94182546Well yeah, I mean it's not hard to spot a humiliation fetishist. Literally nobody else would get such a kick out of being so wrong so often
>>94182528>"not part of your argument">SO YOU ADMIT YOU'RE PURPOSEFULLY SHITTING UP THESE THREADS!?!?Do you have some kind of brain problem?
>>94182544Counterpoint. The library is not a resource. Hence mill deprives you of nothing
>>94182566Cards are absolutely a resource anon you're not even worth discussing this game with.
>>94182535I think you've conceded.
>>94182453>If I have a bag of skittles, and exactly 1 skittle will be the next one I pull from the bag, you taking the bag and mixing it up has not deprived me of any of my skittles.If you take a handful and dump them in the trash, you have deprived me of my skittles.This only matters if you intend to eat every single skittle in the bag. Again, in most games you only use about half your deck. Thus you can only 15 of the 30 skittles so dumping 5 in the bin doesn’t actually matter. You still eat 15 skittles.Obviously this is different if someone is playing a dedicated mill strategy and they intend to dump your entire bag, but the TQ and what I’m talking about are random incidental mill
today i learned the chuds cannot handle the millchads
>>94182566Counter Counter Pointcards are a resource
>>94182569Cards are absolutely not a resource. Why are you even talking to me. Get on my level
Manabase
>>94182564You have tried to match wits and lost, now be quiet
>>94182437>But it's not trueIt’s literally demonstrably true. You mill a random card and now that card has been replaced with another random card on top of your library.
>>94182582>yavimaya are you running acid rain?
>>94182576Many such cases. Honestly this discussion has ran it's course. Anons- how did you do at your last EDH meetup?
>>94182593I don't know how this is confusing for you>have 60 cards in library>now have 59You have objectively had something taken away from you. There is no counterpoint to that I'm saying as it is just fundamentally true. And that's why mill is annoying, even if it's a shit archetype.
After precons, tried to do my own deck. How tio fix this?
>Ulamog>Kozilek>Commit//Memory>Struggle//Survive>Echo of Eons>Gaea's BlessingCan also cast Memory's Journey, Mystic Retrieval, or Krosan Reclamation to get back one of the many cards that don't work in the grave. This discussion has been cancer, but at least we will get a new thread soon.
>>94182574>This only matters if you intend to eat every single skittle in the bag.No it doesn't. Can you articulate a single reason why? I can articulate my point of view.I brought my bag of skittles to eat and be enjoyed. I don't need to eat an entire bag of skittles to enjoy them. When you dumpster my skittles, I am struck with the knowledge that I now cannot eat those skittles. It is no comfort to tell me "well you weren't going to eat a whole bag anyway!" the point is they're my skittles and I don't appreciate you dumpstering them
>>94182619You left your decklist in mmg
>>94182619
>>94182628post link to the decklist please, I'm getting old and can't remember ever card in existence
>>94182596It fixes Cabal Coffers and Maze of Ith if I don't draw Urborg and gives pic related a 4th pip.
>>94182574It would be more analogous to say you are taking the skittle he just grabbed from the bag out of his hand. And when the analogy is made fairly we can see quite clearly why it's annoying
>>94182636https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9DDMSbdpXUSI9rXY-tZEfA
>>94182609> 60 cardsGo back to playing standard.
FOOD ANALOGIES
>>94182607Played 2 games in four hours, won one which felt pretty good. The guy playing mono blue stax (two different flavors) lost both games first, get fucked mono blue.
>>94182641looks surprisingly sane for a first deck list good job
>>94182582price of progress approved
>>94182622>>94182609How are you not running graveyard synergies in 2024 you stupid faggots
>>94182672Entirely irrelevant.
>>94182647Thought you'd love that, fat boy
>>94182622Your skittles metaphor falls apart as soon as you imply that you have access to every skittle in the bag. In any given game of magic there are going to be cards in your deck that you don’t have access to because you haven’t drawn them. If you want the metaphor to work you have to concede that roughly 15 of the 30 skittles aren’t even yours. After the game they are. But during the game, the cards you don’t draw or otherwise have access to effectively don’t exist. Maybe the metaphor should be that according to the rules of the game, you’re only allowed to eat 15/30 skittles during the game. So if I put 5/30 skittles in a different container for you to eat after the game, that effectively has no consequence
>>94182749>If you want the metaphor to work you have to concede that roughly 15 of the 30 skittles aren’t even yours.Kek are you some kind of fucking mongoloid?If I buy a bag of skittles every skittle in there is mine no matter how many or how few I eat.Same with the deck of cards.If the game is over on turn 4 and I didn't get to play most of my deck, I haven't somehow lost possession of my cards. Every single one is one that I could have drawn just like every single skittle is one that I could have eaten.When you mill my cards you are shrinking the pool of cards I could play with and that is why people hate mill. If you grab fistfuls of my candy and throw it in the trash, it is no comfort to say I probably wouldn't have eaten those specific pieces. The point is they're mine and I don't enjoy you taking them from me.I don't know how fucking high on utilitarianism you have to talk yourself into the argument you've cobbled together, but I think maybe you don't believe it at all
>still replying to the humiliation fetishist
>>94182796You never answered that question, if we go to the archives how many hundreds of times have you fished for (You)s with posts exactly like this?
everyone who disagrees with the majority is just doing a humiliation ritual
>>94182672It gets boring recurring and casting the same spells over and over again. Instead of OP card + regrowth I have more fun just playing two good cards.
>>94182655anything obvious that would need to be added/cut from the list
>>94182843Without knowing the powerlevel you are going for, I would say no. There are no glaringly bad cards and it looks like you have quite a few ramp and draw spells. I'd throw skullclamp in, if you wanted an easy combo Chain of Smog goes inf with Sedgemoor Witch other than that I would suggest playing a lot of games with it and adjusting it a little over time.
>>94182784I’m not ripping up your cards. I’m putting them in a different game zone for this game. Unless you can concede that during any given game, you don’t have access to all the skittles in your bag, then your metaphor is an inaccurate strawman and you may as well be talking out your ass
>>94182888There is no winning an argument with someone who gets sexual pleasure from being wrong checked btw
I like decks that buff a single big beater into a lethal striker. I'm thinking of pairing Bruse with a green partner and go Naya with him. I played with the thought of bringing a Golgari Partner and go for Jund Fling tactics, but that doesn't synergize too well with double strike. Thoughts and suggestions?
>>94182888>I’m not ripping up your cards. I’m putting them in a different game zone for this gameYes, a zone in which it is more costly for me to retrieve them to play than it was for you to put them there.That is an annoyance.>Unless you can concede that during any given game, you don’t have access to all the skittles in your bag, then your metaphor is an inaccurate strawman and you may as well be talking out your assYou're being obtuse on purpose for replies. I don't mind replying so much, I mind that you won't come up with something better.The fact that I will not eat a whole bag of skittles does not mean that you reducing the number of skittles I could eat is somehow more palatable to me.You know this is true, you just don't want to concede your defense of mill. I don't understand what is difficult about saying "yeah I get how mill feels like shit but I think it's an acceptable aspect of the game"Literally that easy.
>>94182907You pretty much have anara, gorm, and kamahl in monog. All would work pretty fine but kamahl is way too expensive imo.
>>94182582>creature taplandsdisgusting
>>94182907https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/double-strike-double-tokens-sub-100/
>>94182326The Queen is great because Mardu colors are perfect for the theme and she shits out death touch. Who else would you pick for the command zone?
>Player casts a boardwipe>Say that I want to sac all of my creatures with Greater Good>"No you can't do that. You can only respond by putting 1 thing going on the stack. If no-one wants to do anything after, the whole stack resolves">All other players but me agree that I can't sacrifice more than one creature to Greater Good before the boardwipe resolves>Tired, so say whatever>Go and google around a bit if it is in fact me that is wrong and out of touch, not the group>Every single source says I am right>MTG wiki and the fandom wiki both say I am correct>"I asked an official discord and they said that you can only respond with mana abilities after saccing one creature with Greater Good">"If it worked like you say it does it'd mean you can throw a whole hand of instants ontop of the stack before it resolves, which would be insane!">"I had a time where I had infinite mana and like 30 food, if it worked like you say it does I'd be able to sac 30 food and gain 90 life, which would be broken!"Is this what being gaslit feels like? Or have I truly misunderstood what the wikis and official rules say? Am I going insane?In the case I am in fact understanding the game and priority correctly, how the hell do I not just explain but also convince my group the rules actually work like I presume they do? What the fuck.
>>94182985this isnt being gaslit this is just being bad at the game
>>94181846Got a list?
>>94182921>I don't understand what is difficult about saying "yeah I get how mill feels like shitYou can feel however you want. I’m just saying your feelings aren’t based on logic.
>>94182985I'm a retard but as far as I know, while you have priority you can throw as much shit on the stack as you want.
>>94180431Placement of gems on the beard implies possible AI art.
>>94181038Because they"ve been trying to force it into a "equipment matters" niche, but not giving boros any properly protected equipment carriers.
>>94183007>I’m just saying your feelings aren’t based on logic.Yeah you're saying that because you adamant about not conceding your defense of mill. You know it's untrue but what can you do?
>>94183013>"everyone who disagrees with me is a fetishist!" anon and "every artwork with non-whites is AI!" anon are both on at the same time.What an interesting...coincidence...
>>94183028(you)
>>94183037Yes, (You) "both" shit up every thread asserting things that are untrue in hopes of misleading people into agreeing with you implicitly.Looks like a pattern of behavior.
>>94182945>gormI don't think he partners with commanders. I was thinking about just bringing Gilanra, Caller of Wirewood for the access to green, because he sounds like he would support the tall beater theme.>>94182974god damn Fatal Frenzy is a sexy card. I really like the wide aspect with Tana. now I have some stuff to work with, thank you very much.
>>94182985Some people just won't understand. I still can't get over one guy who was absolutely convinced double strike effected fight cards. He was just so damn sure. Even after everyone else at the table told him he was wrong he just passively went along with a tone and mood that clearly said he thought we were wrong.
>>94183066no problemdouble strike double tokens is one of my favorite decks, honestly I should put it back together its very fun very explosive and very vulnerable all of which imo make for fun games
>>94182985Playing a few matches on MTGO will solve any issues you have with the basics of mtg forever, backing down was your only mistake.
>>94182985I usually respond with "it works on Arena" and they go quiet
>>94183083>its very fun very explosive and very vulnerable all of which imo make for fun gamesagreed. I just came from a game night were we had angry omnath, oreo and ziatora on the table. one game barely took longer than half an hour, and I don't think I ever played so many commander games in a single evening. had a great time.
>>94182985Not only are they wrong about putting multiple things on the stack by holding priority, there's a whole new round of priority that goes around every time something resolves. What they're describing is more like Yugioh's Chain rules than Magic's Stack.
>>94182985It's not gaslighting if they're just stupid anon. Any ability that does not explicitly state it must be activated as a sorcery can be activated at instant speed and you can activate abilities in response to your own abilities (after priority has passed to each of your opponents in turn).>>94183140Unironically this is your best bet. Either show it working somewhere "automatically" or have a friend who is a judge or trusted and experienced player back you up on the function of the rules. >>94183079To be fair, double strike isn't a complicated ability but it's easy to intuitively get it wrong coming from other games. It can be very tempting to look at it and go "oh my creature deals damage twice" and not realize how that is and why it won't do anything outside of swinging in combat.
r8 my aurochs rule 0 deck:https://www.moxfield.com/decks/N7iSn1a1uEeMdFkxLAJUSganything I'm missing?
>>94182985you were right. my condolences, anon. I really hate it when retards try to lecture someone who is less convincing than them and then get their way. you didn't deserve this.
>>94182639Damn, this is a pretty decent stax piece, adding to buy pile
>>94183156cant hold priority on someone else's turn
>>94183172I've always wanted to put Wild Pair in a deck and this looks like a good candidate.
>>94183225that's perfect! Thanks
>>94183213you are not wearing your 4chan pass retard-kun
>>94180589There's way too many players in this format who want to play Standard/Modern but refuse to take their sweaty ass and fuck off to the non-fun formats.
>>94183249Holding Priority MeetingIn Magic: The Gathering, holding priority refers to a player’s decision to maintain control over the game state by not passing priority to their opponent. This allows them to take additional actions, cast spells, or activate abilities before their opponent can respond.Key Points:Only on your turn: You can only hold priority on your own turn, not during your opponent’s turn.Announce your intention: To hold priority, explicitly state your intention to do so, such as “I’ll hold priority” or “I’ll keep priority.”Take additional actions: While holding priority, you can cast additional spells, activate abilities, or take other actions before passing priority to your opponent.No special advantage: Holding priority does not grant a player any special advantage or immunity from opponent responses. Your opponent can still respond to your actions, but you’ll have a chance to take additional actions before they do.MTG Arena note: In Magic: The Gathering Arena, holding priority is similar to “Full Control” mode, where you can take additional actions before passing priority.That's what I get for trusting AI. I mean even if you couldnt hold priority you still get priority back but yeah my bad
>>94183287why on god's green flat earth would you ask an outdated machine anything for facts
>>94183321it comes free on my browser :^)
>>94183161>(after priority has passed to each of your opponents in turn)You don't have to pass priority unless you want to let each of your abilities resolve before doing the next one
>>94183007>feelings not based on logicNo shit that's why they are called feelings anon! Social retards (you) should not talk.
>>94183324do you also take the free candy strangers offer?
>>94183338I gotta be honest, I have never encountered such a scenario
>>94183354I'm not hearing a no
Is he based or cringe?
>>94183369thats because im not saying no>>94183372super cringe if only because elder dragon but not real
>>94182985Your “friends” are retarded and I’m guessing were malding that you were trying to “dodge” the board wipe instead of getting BTFO like the rest of them. I caught similar heat when a player dropped a Blasphemous Act only for me to Eerie Interlude my entire board to safety.
>>94183372>is playing an elder dragon in elder dragon highlander cringeI know wotc WILL find a way to fuck them up eventually so I'm not gonna be all captain obvious on your ass and say they are not cringeyet
>>9418337299 permanents deck is an easy way to abuse him
>>94183066>gormwhoops forgot he has a set partner
>>94183398>I know wotc WILL find a way to fuck them up eventually
What is the name of the deck archetype that cheats out big bodies to win via combat damage?Looking for more commanders like this.
>>94183017>equipment matters nicheI play Boros Angels and I hate that forced niche. The only equipment I use is Swiftfoot Boots and Blackblade Reforged, I use instants and sorceries for buffs instead.
>>94183495list?
TQ: cuz people be salty. Also fuck yeah my favorite commander in the OP it's a good day
>>94183491no idea, I just call them creature cheat, or if you just win by combat damage with big creatures, timmy decks
>>94181206>>94181282holy fuuuuuck lmao
>>94183491Purphorus, Bronze Blooded does it amazingly. I guess you can call it a sneak attack deck? I just call it cheat out Fatty's to smash face
>>94183491There are others but this one is badLike it was bad in 2013 and I can't imagine playing it a decade later
>>94183172If you ran Moritte of the Frost and a bunch of changelings you could run it without it being rule 0'd. You'd just be searching herd and then casting Moritte as herd to search out another Shapeshifter or Aurochs. Probably wouldn't be as fun though; but I'm not an expert on these colors.>>94183326I may be mixing up terminology. I meant to say you need to give everyone a chance to respond before playing anything additional, which I understood as passing priority to each other player, then activating in response to your own activation, at which point priority again loops around the table. You're not forced to resolve anything until you let the stack resolve.
>>94182985Wow. Imagine the level. Reading shit like this is depressing, especially when you have put the effort to understand the rules and deep dive into the comprehensive scenarios.
>>94183568Something about this art... does something to me>look at the alara foil>50 buckeroonislmao I must not be the only one
>>94183460I feel like I'm missing something when I read this card, what the hell are you suppose to actually do with it?
>>94183591combos with skullclamp
>>94183591Iunno, voltron? It's the only thing that makes sense. Pump the power, give double strike, one-shot people?
>>94183591it just can't be interacted with because you can give it hexproof at instant speed
>>94183386>>94183181>>94183161>>94183079>>94183010>>94182994Glad to know I'm not somehow misunderstanding rules, wikis, explanations and videos about it.>>94183156Funny you mention Yugioh, since one of the players played a lot of Yugioh>>94183118>>94183140When I brought it up later (tonight), one player actually brought up "that's how it works in Arena", when saying you could only put 1 thing on the stack and if the other player doesn't do anything you don't get to put any more triggers on the stack and it resolves.I have barely played any arena so I couldn't confidently say I know how it's handled there (though I'm naturally assuming the online game has the same game rules as the paper game)>>94183572Everyone sans one guy (who apparently was wrong about this for 10 years) has been playing for a year, so we're still learning things every session.They all have generally come to at least respect my thoughts on how rules function because I make a point to understand how my own decks work and common interactions with others I can expect. I think I've come through to the most vocal guy, so here's to remaining stead.Thanks anons. I appreciate it
>>94183568I still have this together, I like it but it's dated. 6 mana to wiff is bad.
>>94180707This guy is cool.
>>94183503It's a casual deck. It's supposed to buff Gisela with +1 power and double strike and hope the opponent has no blockers/bounces. My friends know my tricks by now and LGS guys see the obvious problem with Gisela's effects.https://www.moxfield.com/decks/zk8wjShFlkeeg7dwLi6RtQ
>>94183649fuck that art is excellent
>>94183649>and hope the opponent has no blockersWhy wouldn't you include equipment that gives unblockable, or other means like this land?
I am going to attempt to turn my commander into a full art, all by myself.
>>94183623So has your group accepted that you were correct or are you going to have to fight them about it next time as well?
>>94183687based thats how we used to do it
>>94183676I feel no need or want to and my friends don't tend to play flying/reach, especially not as chump blockers.
>>94183591Free discard at instant speed that lets it dodge spot removal and becomes unblockable
>>94183591>flash>can't be countered>pseudo hexproofIt's a control wincon.
>overheard some players calling mother/giver of runes bad designwould she even fall into tier 4, aka "design failures that will never be printed like this again"?
>>94183950its a card in white that actually does something, its no wonder they're mad about it
>>94183974Thats why i like white. The white cards that do stuff cause the most seethe
>>94183950No, they're just gay little faggots who can't handle interaction and don't understand the stack
>>94183950>design failures that will never be printed like this again>giver printed in 2019>both still legal in multiple formatsThey're tier 2 or at best tier 3.
>>94183694Good question. I sure hope so. Fairly sure I managed to seal the deal with one guy by pointing out the existence of Split Second.Yugioh guy isn't quite convinced just yet, but is also autistic and gets stuck when the exact right wording of "priority" and "pass" isn't used. They're going to ask a judge friend they know, so I better hope that judge understands how it works.I've already corrected the guy with the most "seniority" (10 years when we've been playing for 1 at most) about how trample interacts with indestructible and protection and he's accepting enough of when you link to an actual rule proper, so with the support of the loudest guy, whom I've already convinced, I think that's all good.The newer players will not relent if the guys with the most rules knowledge state it as factual rules. As to be expected, this is probably all a mix of communication going awry and a lack of understanding. So here's to hoping I'll navigate this social web to a good conclusion and we manage to all communicate like proper adults over a cardboard game's rules.I've got full (hopefully not misplaced) Faith that it'll work out.
I think nobody cares about the bans anymore. Until the next WotC announcement nobody's going to give a shit and afterwards there will be a period of endless shitpost until shit dissipates and nobody's going to give a shit about the bans again. That's the beauty of EDH. <3
>>94184085Nobody cares about the bans because WotC erased them. We're in limbo until they drop a steaming pile of brackets on us.
>>94184022absolutely>watch pod in which 3 out 4 decks run mana dork ramp>white guy drops Keeper of Silence>everyone groans, but also nobody wants to waste a removal on her to give the other 2 advantagevery enjoyable
>>94184085This>>94184100 we're fucking waiting and if you bitch you get accused of promoting violence to the (former)rc by the tcc guy
>>94183574Pretty sure I've seen a pic of someone who got that art as a full back tattoo. So, someone sure likes it.
>>94184085What are you talking about? No one cares anymore if I walk up with a bunch of banned cards in my deck?
>>94183687just get an alter sleeve
>>94183950I like how tier 4 is whatever you want it to be
>>94184286maybe the real tier 4 was the friends we made along the way
>>94184308Anon is a failed design in life and thus tier 4
>>94182122>I'm actually helping you by giving you fewer cards to work withYes, correct. With fewer cards, you have more information about the cards you're likely to draw.>If you thought mill was giving your opponents an advantage you wouldn't play itIt's not a huge advantage, just a really tiny one, and in exchange I get a large advantage by doing whatever my deck does, be it accessing cards in your graveyard, or even just trying to mill you out. Both provide you a small benefit in the form of information, but provide me a larger one.Regardless, though, you didn't adress my main point, that they milling cards isn't stopping you from playing. It doesn't cost you cards in hand or mana in the same way removal/discard effects do, you just don't draw those specific cards. The only decks that should care about it are combo dexks or decks that really need a couple specific cards to win, but in both cases if you don't have ways to get those cards out of your graveyard, your deck is pretty crap.
>>94183801Why would you ever cast this for it's cleave cost? For some trigger?
>>94184333to indicate
>>94184083>flashback to gp Indianapolis>I tap out to time stretch>Opponent casts dualcaster and I allow it to resolve>I explain how I will take my extra turns first because extra turns follow the LIFO method>Judge is called, he sides with the retard>I don't contest, figure I will win anyway>dude topdecks kozilek and annihilates me for 8 with greaves>I kill him on my extra turns but lose to the last playerMan, fuck magic judges. Good luck.
>>94184352That is a really unintuitive rule in fairness
>>94184352always contest a retarded judge, but also when you're at a tournament you should carry around some laminated cards of rules section edge cases your deck might run into.>>94184414its the judge's role to know all of the rules. this is just going to get worse with the end of judge promos, too.
>>94184333King of the Oathbreakers secret tech
>>94184352I am glad to hear multiple stories lately of bad judge calls causing a player to go on a rampage.
>>94184426They’re getting rid of judge promos? lol, lmao even
>>94184352Thanks anon.Your situation sounds miserable, ouch!I haven't a clue how you become a judge, but I'm on a damn strong assumption knowing how the stack works and when players can cast spells and activate abilities are things someone needs to understand to become a judge.Worst case, I call a few shops and ask if they know a judge I can contact
>>94184469Judges will instead receive collector boosters apparently? Its decroded as fuck.
>>94184469>The year is 2027>someone screams that I am using a tier 4 card in tier 3>they threaten to call a judge>laugh and tell them there are no judges anymore
>>94184489>a judge comes over>tell him "do you really get paid enough to care?">he walks away
>judges are basically MTG JanniesThey do it for free
>build deck online>goldfish it a few times>it's super dull>repeatman
>play vs enchantress deck>they play an enchantment>7000 triggers happen 5000 times
>>94184519Very few decks I have built have actually been spicy. Just make it chill and try to enjoy.
>>94183623>When I brought it up later (tonight), one player actually brought up "that's how it works in Arena", when saying you could only put 1 thing on the stack and if the other player doesn't do anything you don't get to put any more triggers on the stack and it resolves.Tell them you have to have full control on to hold priority.
>>94183950This is in Standard right now.
>>94184372>>94184387significantly less comical than what you're hoping for
Is Thar any good? Thinking of building a deck around him.
>>94184100>because WotC erased themThey explicitly said the bans were staying in place
>>94184560Will do if it comes up again. Thanks!
>>94184640They explicitly said that there is going to be a brand new tier system that replaces the ban list.
>>94184698why would you so confidently put forward something so easily proven wrong without at least double checking first
>>94184698what do you gain from shitposting man
>>94184519Man I don't even get that far>wow this commander looks fun as hell>start building>get halfway through and realize "this is just another boring combat deck that uses the same 20 support cards as all my other combat decks">delete it
>>94184532Guilty as fucking charged I feel so bad sometimes lol>whenever you play an enchantment a ton of shit happens>numerous saga triggers>final saga trigger on Narci several times each turn>whenever you sacrifice an enchantment a ton of shit happensI'M SORRY I just think she's so neat
>>94184776>Jungle fever.Many such cases.
>>94184791Like I said homie guilty as FUCKIN charged
>>94184797I forgive you anon. Sometimes we fall in love with card board and add ten thousand triggers to the stack.
>>94184629The problem with Ruric Thar is that you're just smashing control decks while letting combo run rampant. It's fine if you're playing in a community that shuns infinite combos, but be prepared for every control player to hate your guts.
>>94184715>>94184733If you stab someone and they stagger around before collapsing, they're still dead. It's the same with the current ban list.
>>94184975>but be prepared for every control player to hate your guts.Good, fuck 'em.
>>94184532Wait, hold up, I have Sanctum of All in play don't I? 14,000 triggers, 10,000 times.
This is probably my favorite black card ever. Pop it on an unblocked 9+ power creature and it's a one hit KO. Are there any other tricks like this in other colors?
>>94185175god I've wanted to built a shrine deck for YEARS but I don't wanna be that guy that has 30+ triggers hitting every fucking turn. Yes hold on let's take the next 20 minutes to respond to/resolve all of my fucking shrines okay done? Yeah now it's the end step okay let's do it all over again
>>94184975But what if I smash the combo players in the face with my big boys?
>>94185181Green has Triumph of the Hordes to give their board infect, but that is sorcery.Hatred is probably more what you're thinking of, but that is also black.
>>94184828NTA but I stopped playing my simic landfall decks for exactly this reason>play first land for turn>draw 1 for tatyova>draw 1 for aesi>create a scute swarm token>place counter because of roaring earth>place counter because of retreat to kazandu>scry 1 because of retreat to coralhelm>increment boseiju's power>manifest dread for zimone>draw a card off of they came from the pipes>tutor a basic off of threats around every corner>draw 1 for tatyova>draw 1 for aesi>turn creature up for zimone>create a scute swarm token>place counter because of roaring earth>place counter because of retreat to kazandu>scry 1 because of retreat to coralhelm>increment boseiju's power>play second land for turn
>>94185198I'm waiting on the last of my cards for it actually. The one thing I promised myself is not to durdle with triggers. I've been goldfishing hard to make sure I know what all my little bastards do and if I miss one the table's gotta play, you know?That being said, I have 20 shrine token proxies and I'm wondering if I should have ordered more.
>>94185205Yeah I knew about Hatred but you gotta pay life for it, which would put you wiiiiide fuckin open to the other players. It's definitely a great "game ender" though when it's down to 1v1
>>94185201Combo players usually win before you cast your big boys. You can stop them with some instants, but Ruric Thar doesn't really like playing those. :p
>>94185212>The one thing I promised myself is not to durdle with triggersSmart. I've been trying to get good with my Guff Superfriends deck and man it's taking way longer than I want>I have 20 shrine token proxies and I'm wondering if I should have ordered more.I wanna say that's overkill but I've never played shrines so I can't be certain. I have 10 myr tokens for my Urtet deck but games finish wayyy sooner than I can use all 10 at once
>>94185205this card fucks hard in fling decks
magic is fun
>>94185181You havent lived till you used it as a fog
>>94185264I'm intrigued but also confused
>>94184776>>94185208that's why I started to resent trigger happy decks>opponents don't have fun because you just fondle your deck for several minutes on end every turn before anything interesting happens>you don't have fun either doing this shit for the Xth timeI returned to unga bunga and never looked back
>>94185275If the creature has 9 or less power you can use it to take poison counters instead of damage. Usually people don't run a lot of poison so it's mostly safe but you could get proliferated out
>>94185181>>94185264>>94185317I have actually used it to kill someone with another player's creature when they thought they were safe.
>>94185300I just wanted to branch out cuz you can only build so many unga bunga decks until it gets boring as *fuck* cuz they all do the same thing with the same cards
>>94184600You fucking faggot, I thought this was a new thread then got confused ENDing to the bottom when I was the post total. I looped like four times before I figured out what was going on.
>>94185384Yeah its got a lot of uses
>>94185300Yeah after playing it once IRL after a while playing it digitally and having to shuffle 70+ cards multiple times per turn I kinda gave up on itIf I wanted a massive stack consisting entirely of my own shit I'd play Storm. After like turn 6 a good Simic landfall deck feels like I should be writing a script to handle all my triggers
NEW>>94185748>>94185748>>94185748
>>94183013>copyright 2021you're goofy
Is Izzet even playable without it devolving into Solitaire?
