How do deal with huge libraries in cities, from a GMing standpoint?Whenever my players go to them, it's always this awkward thing of them asking to look into something that shouldn't be easy to find about, or saying "I just spend as much time as possible" to learn everything they can about things that would normally require checks, or even trying to read about skills they shouldn't be able to mechanically acquire "Can I get a manual on survival?", etc.Anyone else has this problem?
>>94186612Well, why don't you just let them? Unless you are railroading the story, let them use the resources at their disposal. Why put a library in the city if you don't want them to use it?
>>94186612>or even trying to read about skills they shouldn't be able to mechanically acquire "Can I get a manual on survival?>roll arcana to see if you can deduce the impenetrable sorting system they use for the books>you failed (actual roll result doesnt matter, but they will feel like they tried), roll 2d6 months to track the book down
>>94186664>actual roll result doesnt matter, but they will feel like they triedStop being a dice-fudging, railroading little cunt.
>>94186670A gamemaster's job is to lie and deceive.
>>94186657Unless you're DMing a sandbox you should road the players without railroading them. Give them choices but keep them on a road, otherwise everything feels like a disjointed meaningless sequence of events.
>>94186612Which system?
>>94186612Main point: Don't have public libraries that are open to all and linked to all the world's knowledge, like we have today. Books are expensive and fragile. Have most the libraries as small individual private collections by Local Lords, jealous mages, 'protective' religious institutes, etc, in which they either have to be REALLY good friends of the owner to get a look in, have to be a trusted guild/order member or have to pay massive fees to gain entry. Even then, there are private or closed off sections that no access is granted to anyone.Have libraries spread out across the world, so if they want to search all known knowledge on a subject they will have to travel across continents. Also, some libraries will be incomplete or full of unrelated subjects "Yep, in Pigville, we have the worlds biggest collection of books on pigfarming! What's that? You want a book about the childhood of Vecna? Did he raise pigs?"Treat info like treasure - you leave breadcrumbs here and there to guide the plot and improve the characters abilities, but there is only what you say there is in a locations, nothing more. How would you act if a player says, "I want a +5 Holy Avenger Sword. I am going to search this cellar for as long as it takes until I find one." If they insist, jump forward a year or two and tell them they have searched everything but found nothing while the world has progressed without them, or tell them to roll up another character for the adventure while their old one spends their life in a lifetime of study.They only find what you as DM want them to find, nothing more.
>>94186612Books are very rare in settings that don't have printing presses or photocopiers.
>>94186748Good post.
My character loves libraries
>>94186612Well depending on the general time period of the setting, getting into the library in the first place might be an issue, as it could be something reserved for the upper class, or even a subgroup of the upper class. Public libraries are a relatively new thing. Once there, you actually have to find books about what you want to research, and that’s far from a guarantee. Let us assume your hypothetical “learn about survival” scenario. What kind of survival? Do you mean you want treatises on what kind of plants grow in the place you’re going to, what’s safe to eat and what’s deadly, what can be used for field medicine? Maybe what beasts live out there, how to set snares or pitch a tent? Well first, those are all going to be different books written by radically different people ranging from alchemists and healers to nobles on what’s basically a safari trip, and then you’re going to require a roll to find such a thing in the almost certainly complicated and idiosyncratic filing system they’re using, after you secretly roll a percentile dice to see if the library even has anything on the topic followed by a second to determine the quality and accuracy of the information. Remember that before mass printing was a thing, books were much rarer and knowledge was not so easily accessible. It is entirely valid to say flat out “this library has no tomes on necromancy in any detail beyond how evil it is and how binding the dead is a practice of heathen savages”.As for players wanting essentially to live in the library, eventually the librarians will get tired of such nonsense and kick them out if they spend too long inside, and the guards at the entrances will be instructed to turn them away. Again, exclusivity. Just because a thing exists doesn’t mean you have unfettered or any access to it.
The game I’m GMing has cellphones and internet so I just let ‘em look up whatever they’d want. The second you get into a time period where you can search linkedins and every news article going back decades it becomes difficult telling your players “no” when it comes to investigating certain topics
>>94186761>players all roll to find the book they want>all of them get the equivalent of brochures intended for children>"survival in the wilderness is so easy, anyone can do it...."
>>94186772well, lets say you are fighting ghosts in the 21st centurybut if you google ghosts and busting, then you will just be directed to the imbd page for busting ghostsso your players are going to have to find the methods the ol fashioned way, like looking up crackpots who claimed to have discovered ghosts but since they are seen as kooks their wikipedia page is a stub and you need to go on an adventure
>>94186786What if I say "I ask on 4chan"
>>94186797>characters go to /x/>roll on computer use>everyone accuses you of being a skinwalker and offers no actual useable advice
>>94186797>you learn how to make crystals that will help with the ghosts
>>94186772You can still insist on a roll to find good sources with accurate information. For example, there are tons of poorly labeled or entirely unmarked satire news websites that host old school looking newspaper articles about all kinds of bullshit, theories presented as facts and ignorant assholes insisting they’re right about a topic they in fact know nothing about. The internet is a quagmire of lies and misinformation, and that’s before we get into a discussion about how search engines muddy the waters with their varying results.
>>94186797Go, right now, to /k/ and ask for the best deer hunting loadout or the best firearm for home defense. Go to /fit/ and ask them what the best gym routine/diet plan is. Ask any board any question about their topic of discussion and see how much helpful information you get compared to how much shitflinging it devolves into.
>>94186612>something that shouldn't be easy to find"You can't find anything useful">manual on survival+2 circumstance bonus to next survival check if done within 24 hours of consulting the manual. Assuming the one you find has good information (protip: Rangers very rarely write books)
>>94186830Yeah, if you ask overly broad questions you're not going to get much good out of it, but if you ask /g/ for advice on building a computer or /k/ for a handgun and specify budget, use-case, etc. you're usually going to get some pretty good advice (once you filter out obvious shitposters).
>>94186612>the grand library isnt open for foreigners and outsiders unless they make a donation>this only grants you access to the public areas with generic knowledge>most plot relevant information will be in restricted and/ or secret areas of the library>to gain access to these the party must either sneak, stealth, bride or force themself in, or work for the library staff by doing a quest or two>the information they find is incomplete and wont give them 100% they need for their grand task, but leads them to the next adventure locationThere you go
>>94186748>You want a book about the childhood of Vecna? Did he raise pigs?New headcanon accepted.
>>94186797>I ask 4chan how to defeat ghosts.>Okay. You get called several racial slurs (some of which you've never even heard of before), are accused of being a fed, and get told ghosts are a Jewish psyop designed to distract people from how Big Cemetary is secretly running the world.>The only actionable piece of advice you get is to fuck the ghosts into submission, but given how they've demonstrated themselves to be incorporeal, you doubt that'll work.
>>94187126>but given how they've demonstrated themselves to be incorporeal, you doubt that'll workNot with that attitude.
>>94186683>DnD DMs actually believe this.Please never leave the DnD kiddie-pool.
>>94187298The entire premise of roleplay is lies. You are selling the lie that the world people are playing is real. Deception is a core skill for any gamemaster who wants their players to believe in the world they are playing in and actually care.
>>94187364Do improv theater then.DMs who fudge dice rolls should not be playing a roleplaying GAME.
>>94187412Maybe you should try these things called videogames instead.
>>94187452That doesn't even make sense, so I'm going to assume this is projection and/or mental gymnastics.Don't play roleplaying GAMES if you can't cope with the fact that GAMES have RULES. Do improv theater, go write a book, but don't be a railroading faggot.
>>94187473The GM is above the rules. This is the most basic shit possible and the first page on any GMing book worth anything. The rules are more like guidelines, you are and should lie, fudge, deceive and do anything in your power to sell the world to the players.
>>94186670It's not fudging to roll without telling the players what the number is a success. And it's reasonable to make success impossible when the players are trying to do something completely out of their wheelhouse.
>>94187473>writing like THIS instead like a NORMAL personGo back to twitter faggot
>>94186612>Why yes, sir, we do have the tome you requested... in theory. In reality, it's been overdue for well over a year. Normally, our security would've collected it by force, but it's held by a powerful wizard who lives out of town, and we're apprehensive to disturb him. If you manage to collect the book, we will even pay you a fee, how about that!>Why yes, sir, we do have the tome you requested... but it's not available. Lord Inquisitor who moved into the town a year ago imposed strict censorship on our library. All the literature he declared subversive was locked in a special vault protected by magic traps. However, if the book mysteriously disappears from the vault, we aren't going to be very upset. >Why yes, sir, we do have the tome you requested... but we can't find it. You see, a week ago all of our records were vandalised by a vengeful former librarian. We're currently in the process of restoring them, which is scheduled to take several months. Until then, I'm afraid we can't tell you where your book is! You can see yourself how big the library is. If you need it urgently, I suggest asking the town magician for magical means of locating it.>Why yes, sir, we do have the tome you requested... but it's stolen. Shameful, I know, but the thief who sneaked into the library was a real professional. Nevertheless, our security has found a number of clues that may help a competent detective to identify the culprit. Are you a competent detective? Well, you can't possible be worse than our head of security. You can meet him in a watchman lodge down the hallway.>Why yes, sir, we do have the tome you requested... but it's inaccessible. One of the interns mishandled a dangerous grimoire stored in this library, resulting in a massive spillover of magic. A lot of characters walked out of their books and into the aisles, some of them quite belligerent. I'm sorry, but I refuse to risk my life to retrieve the book for you. If you need it so much, get it yourself!
>>94187473I don't know what I hate more, the message of this post or the way it's been communicated.
The amount of failed authors in this thread is hilarious and sad.
>>94186754You missed the AI slop thread. Probably intentionally. Holy fuck you faggots are annoying.
