>yeah bro feel mythic 3 times a day!>added mythic resilience that completely invalidates spellcasters >create demiplane and a bunch of other rituals are now mythic (we don't want the evil wizard to destroy our campaign) >mythic spells are shit>level 20 mythic = immortalyeah, what a shitty subsystem
>>94202631How dare a monster meant to be fought by a party at the level cap be overwhelmingly powerful. How dare it.
>>94202648>overwhelmingly powerful.The proper word is UNPLAYABLE. Wasting pages and ink as filler as they cannot think of something that can actually used in the game.
>>94202631>added mythic resilience that completely invalidates spellcastersThat's fairly good compared to regaining a 6th-level spell, unless mythic resilience is something different.>>94202648>a party at the level capI wold think "Creature 12" implies that it's meant to be fought by a level 12 party. Its saves imply that it's actually level 17 before bonuses.
>>94202631>can be killed by a level 17 demigod gangster black girl boss and her level 12 goons
>>94203004Creature 12 means he has 12 levels worth of monster feats. While Pathfinder's monster creation system looks the same as the PC one and spits out nearly identical stat blocks it is not the same system.>>94202666It's clear you don't actually play the games you bitch about, but at least try to not waste trips over it.
>>94204116>Creature 12 means he has 12 levels worth of monster feats. While Pathfinder's monster creation system looks the same as the PC one and spits out nearly identical stat blocks it is not the same system.My bad. Haven't touched PF2e in a while, so I thought it was closer to the D&D CR system. He still looks like a challenge for mid-level parties more than high-level ones, since a level 20 martial would have at least +30 to hit and thus crit more than half the time.
>>94204399in Pathfinder 2e you add your level to absolutely everything. Attacks, AC, saves, perception, everything. a level 12 fighter has +12 base to hit, +6 Master proficiency, +5 strength, +2 weapon/item bonus, and maybe +1 to +2 from in combat buffs like having a bard or heroism. So hitting 31 AC is pretty trivial. There's no CR in PF2E, you judge encounter difficulty based on whether enemies are the same, higher, or lower level than you. Fighting a couple enemies the same level as you are is a pretty easy fight. Fighting a single enemy +3 levels higher than you is miserable and something +4 levels higher than you is borderline suicide, since you add your level to absolutely everything it just becomes nearly impossible to succeed against over leveled foes, the only exception is at the very highest levels you can layer enough high level system-bending buffs to overcome the brute force numbers gap. This is also why casters suck so much and Fighter is the best class in the game. Casters are given massively delayed proficiency increases, can never benefit from item bonuses, and are just arbitrarily screwed with worse perception, initiative, armor class, saves, and health they can never ever make up for, all spells do is inflict the exact same handful of conditions (clumsy, flat footed, grabbed, prone, enfeebled, slowed, etc) that a Fighter can inflict by hitting enemies with a sword as well. It's like how in JRPGs bringing a debuff mage is sometimes just worse than just having a warrior or rogue who can inflict debuffs on hit while also doing damage. PF2E is a ttrpg that really desperately wishes it was a 4-niggas-in-a-row videogame. The reason Fighter is better than everyone else in the game is because they get to attack as if they were multiple levels higher than the rest of the party, nobody can ever ever EVER match them in attack accuracy
>>94204399>He still looks like a challenge for mid-level parties more than high-level onesHe is, for mythic parties. Later in the book you have creatures like Vulot the All or None, a nascent demon lord of identity theft who is level 23, the Oliphant of Jandelay who is 25, or Agyra the Forever Storm, a kaiju who is level 23.Theres also a level 6 fey creature called a Sublime Breath, for low level mythic campaigns. Theres even a former god turned Spawn of Rovagug, the once orc god Verex now Verex-That-Was at level 24.The lich is merely an example of using the Mythic monster templates, Ambusher (they use a gogiteth), Brute (an ogre), Caster (the aforementioned lich), and Striker (a griffin).The mythic power system is meant to be used alongside levels, growing in power as you level. So a mid level enemy like a lich becomes mythic and super dangerous to a nonmythic party, but merely a standard enemy to a mythic party. Its like playing a party of chosen ones, all destined for demigodhood.The mythic system works by replacing Hero Points with Mythic Points, a new proficiency level above legendary, and a Calling, mythic feats that you gain at every even level. At 12th level you pick a Mythic Destiny, your path to immortality. You can become an archfiend, a celestial, a god, an eternal legend, or several other ones.>>94204591Its a goddamn +2. And yeah, casters were nerfed from the bullshit of previous editions, now they sit at a place where they cant overshadow other classes with their spells. A wizard isnt meant to be a frontline combatant, why the fuck would they have the same health as a fighter? the same armor? or healthy saves like a fighter? Your complaint is seriously retarded in that youre upset the wizard doesn't have the same frontline stats as a goddamn fighter, when the wizard has never had those in any fucking edition.As for Item bonuses, the wizard is not prevented from them and does benefit from several, just not weapon ones obviously.
Anything that invalidates spellcasters is good
>>94204971The fighter can deal damage and apply conditions at the same time.The caster can apply the same conditions as the fighter while not dealing damage.The caster is strictly worse than the fighter in all ways and there is no reason to ever bring one.
rewrite what you don't like
>>94202648This is mythic resilience
>>94209140Oh sorry meant to reply to >>94203004
>>94202631>entire statblock is a list of references to other booksHow is this allowed
>>94209195It's a supplement book, you troglodyte. The book it references over and over is for the normal Lich statblock or the Ability Glossary in the monster book.
>>94209285Imagine being too damn cheap to print a legible statblock. Cross-referencing 3 or 4 goddamn books with color-coded rainbow pieces of flair and autistic keywords. You have to be a special kind of glue eater to defend this nonsense.
>>94209195>monster statblock has you reference monster abilities in the book about monstersThe horror.
>>94207535Right, but the wizard gets to apply those at a distance and sometimes to multiple creatures at the same time. And he has access to a wider selection, as far as I know you can't apply things like fascinated or restrained or sickened or whatever else with a sword, not without investment in magic items and feats. >>94209433That'd just be 4e.
>>94209839Retard.
>>94209587Yes, retard. All information you need to run the monster should be printed in the statblock.
>>94204971>Its a goddamn +2This is reductionist in the same way saying a knight vs pawn in chess is "just an L"; in a game that is on strict rails such that it's completely impossible by design for you to punch above your level in terms of bonuses, the one people who DO get to break the rules and fight as if they were several levels higher are unsurprisingly the best. >"It's just a +2!"okay, I guess if we were playing 40k or some other wargame and everyone in the game was mandated to have BS4+, while casters got BS6+ for all their powers as revenge for the previous edition, but there was one faction whose units cost exactly as many points as everyone else's but had BS2+ and WS2+ because "their identity is about being the best at fighting!" would you have the same retarded "uhhh, it's just a plus two!" attitude?this is the same cocksucking retarded fanbase constantly screeching about how MUH EVERY PLUS ONE MATTERS btw, as if they don't see the irony. If you were playing a JRPG and one party member was treated as multiple levels higher than the entire rest of the party from the very beginning of the game to even at level cap endgame dungeons, you'd think that was a pretty good ability too
>>94204971>Your complaint is seriously retarded in that youre upset the wizard doesn't have the same frontline stats as a goddamn fighter, when the wizard has never had those in any fucking editionnice straw man, too bad it's not "wizard" but "every single spellcaster in the entire game"a level 1 Fighter has the same Perception proficiency as a level 20 Druid. Wanna go look at 1E or AD&D Clerics and pretend they're made of fucking glass and literally never allowed to be decent with weapons, even compared to a Thief? Don't look at old-school saving throw tables or you'll have a heart attack
