Welcome to TODD!This thread is for OPEN discussion of TSR-era Dungeons & Dragons (OD&D, Basic, and Advanced, including AD&D 2e) and related games, such as retroclones, OSR and OSR-adjacent games (OSE, BFRPG, S&W, LotFP, DCC, C&C, Shadowdark, X without Numbers, Knave, ...).Free discussion of house rules and modifications is encouraged!previous thread: >>94061240TQ:>What's a recently published book or adventure for a /todd/ system that you've enjoyed?>What kickstarters and upcoming books are you looking forward to?
/todd/ is not even good for the games it shills. Smaugchan just accept defeat plz
>>94230384>published adventure Really digging Gradient Descent, Dead Planet and Pound of Flesh for Mothership. Main issue is I am not really digging Mothership, seemingly too fiddly and the modules don't really line up with the arcs described in the gamebook itself which is sus. Not really digging Death in Space, being too lose but setting specific at the same time. I've been considering running it with SwN but was wondering if anyone had tried any other nusr or indi scifi games that worked well, almost like an ItO of scifi.
>kickstarters ehhhhhh largely pass at this point there's been enough jank even from authors I like that waiting to pirate and then buy real copies is the only way to go. Likely to pick up a copy of Valley of Flowers for the November game budget. That one about an underground pipe complex fantasy fallout vault ripoff is borderline. Might just print that one out, the makers seem like medium conjobs.
>>94231390Fiddly? I would have thought the complaint would be that the system is too light. It doesn't even tell you when/if you should roll combat for an enemy, for example. I get what it's going for, and it's worked fine in practice for me, but the main appeal is definitely in the modules, as you said. The system is mostly just there to have a baseline for modules to riff off in terms of hp and prices and then get out of the way. The panic stuff is nice when it kicks in, though. As long as the system you pick has PCs vulnerable enough to want to avoid violence, it should work.
Opinions on the very generically named "Low fantasy gaming"?
>>94231510against
>>94231685Why?
>>94230384If it's not mörk börg then I don't care!
Can someone give me a quick rundown on dungeon turns really quick? I get that every room is a 10 minute chunk, and enemies do their own things in that chunk, everyone can move 120 feet. Do I have my party roll initiative at the start of the dungeon, and that's the order I ask them what they do in the dungeon then? Or does that only come into play when they meet a patrol?
>>94233280>enemies do their own things in that chunkIt can come up, but it's pretty rare. In the vast majority of cases monsters are abstracted out, and you only keep track of them when the characters run into a fixed encounter or a wandering monster appears.>everyone can move 120 feetNo, that depends on encumbrance.>Do I have my party roll initiative at the start of the dungeon, and that's the order I ask them what they do in the dungeon then?No.>Or does that only come into play when they meet a patrol?Not 100% sure what you mean by "patrol". Initiative is used whenever there's a combat.Anything other questions?
>>94233426I guess I was under the impression that alongside having discrete increments for players doing things, and tracking resources, dungeon turns were what allowed groups of wandering monsters to roam through a dungeon, "patrolling" as it were, to bump into the party.
>>94233444I'm not really sure what you mean by that, procedurally. It sounds like you might be approaching this with preconceptions from some other game rather than just reading the rulebook.The procedure for wandering monsters is that every set interval (usually 2 or 3 turns) you make a wandering monster check (usually 1-in-6), and if indicated by the die, wandering monsters *appear* at a certain distance from the party. You are not tracking where they are unless and until they appear.If any wandering monsters survive the encounter, whether because of negotiation, avoidance, escape, or whatever, you don't keep tracking them, they just disappear.
>>94233888Oh wow that's actually way more elegant. I'm gonna plead the fifth on why I'm asking for these rules tho.
>>94231510Against because it isn't mörk börg, the true TODD experience.
>>94230384>Welcome to TODD!Really, nigger? You're going to try this again?This "general" is DEAD, give up, Smugchud.
>>94230384TQI’ve got Dolmenwood and ACKSII in the queue. I’m going to run Dolmenwood btb with the thematic adjustments of Dolmenwood uncensored. That may not sound like much but it’s a pretty big deal for me to not hack and houserule something based in BX.I don’t think ACKSII is going to get any play at my table unfortunately. I’ve only got one player that would be able to fully embrace the autism. I’ll be able to mine it for rules here and there so it’s not a totally pointless purchase but it is was a bit extravagant on my part.I’ve got TMNT&OS coming too but that’s not for this general
>>94231218>>94236053yeah, you're no arnie
Bumpy
>>94230384What would happen, the how let us ignore, if D&D became fully public domain?
>>94243854Not really much would change. Most people make their own stuff and there no way for anyone to control what other people do in their games,
>>94243854>What would happen, the how let us ignore, if D&D became fully public domain?With the release of the CC-BY version of the 5e SRD, it basically already is.
>>94244599Unfortunately it doesn't go for previous editions, right?
>>94244753It can be used to reproduce plenty. Certainly all of B/X and OD&D..
>>94246746Cool if true, needs more AD&D of course.
>>94244753WotC did announce that once all of the core 5.5 books are released they plan on releasing the older editions into the CC-BY as well.
>>94246866Awww yeah that's good news
>>94246866Where is this announcement? And why should we believe it?
>>94247274Last year when they stepped in their own dick over the OGL they released the 5e srd under CC they said they would be doing the same with older editions. Well over a year ago and coming up on two years.There is nothing to motivate them to do this now. They only released 5e as a distraction away from their monumental fuck up. There isn’t enough collective bargaining power, ie mass dragging on social media, in the communities that care about older editions.Don’t believe the hype. Not that it matters anyway because there is nothing of value gained by being attached to Dungeons & Dragons as a brand.
>>94247484Yeah I assumed he must have been referring to some another announcement. Nobody with more than three neurons took that one seriously even at the time.
>>94231483>As long as the system you pick has PCs vulnerable enough to want to avoid violence, it should work.This is sort of the problem with space horror I'm encountering. There's an internal disconnect between >competent to hyper competent space worker fantasy put forward by basically most scifi and generally with the idea that being in space requires you to be good at shit because otherwise space will kill you, and >horror genre so everyone is medium to strongly retarded so the monsters and bad things can be scary Like, I can make it work with SwN or fucking 3:16 Carnage or something but its not going to be horror. Its going to be grity scifi with weird shit.
What are your favourite POD at cost books? Is there other places to get them other than Amazon or Lulu?
>>94251328I just print them myself (without artwork)professionally printed/binded books with colorful artwork might look cool and all (often don't, so many books have crap art), but imho they're not practical and end up feeling more like collectibles
>>94251328Obvious answer is BFRPG.
>>94251328>What are your favourite POD at cost books?Delving Deeper from Lulu, but if you have access to a printer and a booklet stapler then it's a million times better to print out the free PDFs yourself and turn them into 3 little booklets
>>94230384OSR adventures are built around 6-8 player characters. Worlds Without Number is not quite an OSR game and has more powerful PCs than OSR. How many WWN PCs would be ideal for a given OSR adventure?
>>94258580About 3.50.
>>94231390lmao I get itI don't mind Mothership but Pound of Flesh is so good it felt like I was playing Mothership in order to experience the adventure rather than the other way around.
>>94233280Holy fucking retard. Can't learn the basics of a game for 8 year old?Or have you just failed entirely to read the actual book?>>94233923No. Explain yourself
>>94256293Shit game
>>94265159It could use a few tweaks, but I don't see why it's so bad.
Can someone post a link to an old school book repo?I lost my old school monster manual and ADnD player book pdfs.
>>94265236You're pathetic. You can't even use google? You find the books thread here? Jesus christ
>>94230384best and fastest version for new players?it helps to have as little need to cross-reference stuff as possible, since we are forced to play online and cant just peek at each others character sheets
>>94265369Literally just play BX. Any other inane questions?
>>94265398>Any other inane questions?my players probably wouldnt like the elf being its own class, instead of being an elf wizard
>>94265148I can't find the rules.
>>94265449Wow. Impressively feckless. >>94265437Equally impressive to come begging for advice, then to deny it without even attempting to broach the subject let alone oven actually trying the game.
>>94265512>Equally impressive to come begging for adviceasking a question about which TSR game is good for beginnerschecked the B/X character creation and i am pretty sure they would not particularly like demihumans having no classes availableso what would be the most beginner friendly after BX?>, then to deny itadvice was considered, but there will be issues with the player group in character creation
>>94265558Yes, and the literal tsr game made for beginners? BX. Demihumans *are* the classes. But if you want to make that poor decision for them, then just use race and class from advanced OSE. But really, we both know that you're going to end up picking shadowdark, and then back to 5e before they hit level three.
>>94265512Oh so it's 120' per minute for a human, as the movement takes one of your "rounds" in your "turn", and the game operates on the ten minute turn scale. Is there a page I should be looking at in the DMG as well?
>>94265601And then this is where I got ten minutes for an action as in searching for a door.My problem is I fucking googled "dungeon turn" and read the first few results and just got even more hopelessly confused.Also my refusal to explain myself was, through an unintentional pun, my explanation. I'll leave it at that.
>>94265623Shit.Maybe I don't know what I want but I'm reading about what other people have enjoyed, and I think I want that without knowing what it actually is.
>>94265627Googling for generic terms gives poor information. Input = output.120' aka twelve 10' squares can be moved by a lightly armored unencumbered party. A turn can also be used it's it's entirety to:Search ListenDisarmMove EtcDifferent characters may do different things within the turn. Someone might search for secret doors while someone else disarms a trap while others listen at doors to keep guard.Characters may also perform minor ancillary actions during the turn. What book are you reading??Please read the Moldvay Basic D&D pdf, and use the ose srd website for referencing.
>>94265669I'm looking at ADnD2E stuff.
>>94265678Dont. It doesnt actually support dungeon crawling. Start with BX d&d and learn from there.
>>94265623>My problem is I fucking googled "dungeon turn" and read the first few results and just got even more hopelessly confused.Never Google rules like that. They differ from edition to edition. Pick an edition and read the rulebook. If something isn't clear, read the fucking rulebook again.
>tfw /Todd/ turns into bx general with raw purity spiral lmao
>>94268127>Tfw the introductory beginners game is the best way to introduce beginners
>>94268821I'm not sure it is. Beginners with b/x when it came out are about 2 generations removed or more if you're teaching actual kids. It's different enough they're not going to be well suited for the task, might even have different goals. If it's some millenials trying to escape the wotc ghetho it might work. But realistically an updated learning set rather than an updated reference document makes sense.
>>94268880Cool, that's a lot of cope for saying that you agree.You think they should fucking play morkborg or some shit instead?Or maybe just *maybe* start with the fundamentals and move on from there?
>>94268880>Beginners with b/x when it came out are about 2 generations removed or more if you're teaching actual kids. It's different enough they're not going to be well suited for the task, might even have different goals.Inane nonsense
>>94268921How long is decade again? Tre entire grog basis of osr and trad is >Things now are different in a way I don't like So the kids are different too. You obviously don't like it but it's already happened, otherwise there wouldn't be osr at all.
>>94268949>the kids are different tooAnd you're telling me that kids are incapable of learning to play the basic introductory from of BX?Maybe you're just a shitty teacher. I've taught six year olds to play BX within the last few years. Besides that, the person above clearly isn't a child, and is trying to learn dungeon crawling from the fucking 2e phb, instead of the basic fundamentals, which has led him to being confused.Start with the basic fundamentals, then grow from there.
>>94268991Yes. You wouldn't be flooded with constant questions and misunderstanding otherwise. B/X is okay because nothing else better has been made. That's it.
>>94268949Stop trolling to keep your dead thread alive
>>94269008>You wouldn't be flooded with constant questions and misunderstanding otherwise.That's literally what happens when you teach someone something. They ask question and gain understanding. >nothing else better has been made.Is the tearful coping way of saying "it's the best because it hasn't been surpassed in decades"Why are you so afraid of new players learning to play using the literal basic introductory game? Do YOU have any actual suggestions, or just bitching?
>>94269041Lmao the amount of cope here is too much. Have fun with your /Todd/ bx zone.
>>94269021I was hoping it would be nusr but is funny to me it's just a meme of a meme of a meme of /osrg/. Use your mod powers to merge the threads.
>>94269050Keep crying that you can't teach kids how to play BX. >>94269058>If I keep trolling, maybe my dying thread will flourish! See ya next week buckeroo
>>94269050Okay, so not suggestions, just bitching
>>94268880Look, there's a guy being generally a dick over there, but it's a fact the best version for beginneers.I started with 2e and played even more 3e, but if you're gonna introduce someone to the game, you probably don't want to push them into learning clerical spheres or choosing feats and alocating skills. You have them pick "Elf", "Fighter", "Dwarf" etc. Otherwise you may just find a fastplay with pre-made characters and jump straight into the dungeon with a bunch of d6.
>>94270292*it's a fact the best version for beginneers is OD&D
>>94270365BX *is* ODD. Are you meaning LBB?Regardless, BX is indeed the best system for beginners.
>>94270468I was just correcting a part of the first sentence I left out. Don't keep track of all the OD&D variations and acronyms, though. Not sure what other edition the other guy could possibly think is better, though.
>>94273393word homie
Someone asked me to post about how my houserules for C&C worked.>Finesse Weapons if you have dexterity as a primaryWorked well, made the thief not completely useless but he was still worse than the Warblade and Crusader.>3.5 space threatening rulesAlso worked pretty well, it let the warriors protect the other players more easily.>Crusader and Warblade??My custom classes worked fine. They were dominant in combat but so is a 1st level fighter and paladin. The thief still got a chance to shine with traps etc and the wizard cast a few helpful spells like sleep.>Advantage for flankingVery strong, made flanking extremely important for the party and enemies. I had one skeleton take an attack of opportunity just to get advantage and that was a great move that nearly downed the Crusader.
>>94270468>BX *is* ODD.Not sure if stupid or trolling, but just in case: They are different games/editions with quite different rules. LBB/OD&D are from 1974-1976, B/X is from 1981.
>>94251291A hyper-competent blue collar worker is still going to freak if he has to deal with a murderer or something, even if he can patch up a hull breach or recite the engine's manual without breaking a sweat. I realize that you're more commenting on what typical sci-fi systems give you, though.I'd say limit hit dice, or just do the gritty sci-fi action thing. MoSh monsters tend to be so overtuned that it's hard to trivialize them with sheer force, and the game doesn't break if you ignore panic and stress, either; that stuff is mostly a roleplay prompt. No need to pretend to be a retarded horror movie protag if it doesn't bring you joy.
>>94274435I was ThatAnon. Appreciate the update. I'm not surprised those houserules worked - they all seemed sensible.Hope you feel free to post any other remarks about your C&C game, esp. rules-related like this. I am stuck in 5e as a player for the foreseeable future.
>>94281976We’re playing through Tomb of the Serpent Kings at the moment. Modified to fit my setting. It’s a points of light setting based on Nentir Vale. The party gets to do a hexcrawl across the map looking for a cure to the mysterious plague. They spent most of the first session trying to find a priest who was meant to help them, but unfortunately he was killed by the goblins from the tomb.Might take a little while to go through the tomb. Afterwards they’ll get a clue pointing them in the direction of the Forge of Fury to the North East and a dungeon I made filled with oozes to the South East. Or I’ve told them they’re welcome to go explore the map however they wish with a few points of interest and other leads to pursue.
>>94231510Just play Pendragon.
>>94246789This. I want to make new campaign worlds for 2nd Edition.
>>94251328Yeah, Officeworks.They don't ask why I'm printing out so many pages the workers have to refill the paper cartridges. AD&D is perfect for this approach because most pages were black and white, with the occasional colour plate. $0.1 a B&W page, $0.6 a colour page, A4 document holders and some slips... and boom, a standard module or booklet reproduced in A4 for less than $20 in this economy.144 pages is about the limit my method can sustain, though, and the sheer amount of colour artwork from the WotC era means I could never reproduce, say, the reprint of the Player's Handbook at a competitive price vs. DriveThruRPG, but given the second hand prices for, say, a boxed set vs. what it costs me to recreate it, I've saved my gaming group hundreds and hundreds of Australian Dinarii.
>>94265236Here's a pro tip - nearly the entire TSR run is freely available on the Internet Archive if you go looking.
>>94265369Rules Cyclopaedia - all you need in one book, easy to learn, years of fun. I learnt it when I was 7, despite my thing what done with brain, so you'll do fine.>>94265437If that's the problem, you want AD&D 2nd Ed, but there's more of a learning curve. Still a great game, but you'll need to either do some worldbuilding or read up on an existing setting. Have fun!! Gee, I wish I could read this stuff for the first time again... I hope it inspires you.>>94265512The samurai were polite even to their enemies, because they thought rudeness was weakness. You might like to meditate on that.
>>94265795>It doesnt actually support dungeon crawlingLMAO wutSkill issue, son
>>94268949>Tre entire grog basis of osr and trad is>>Things now are different in a way I don't likeI introduce newbies to older games and show them a fun time in joy and fellowship.Others in this thread are bitter, resentful old geezers that hate the world and hate the publishers and hate everything modern, living in misery, bitterness and bile.We are not the same.
>>94270292>but if you're gonna introduce someone to the game, you probably don't want to push them into learning clerical spheres or choosing feats and alocating skills.But it's 2nd Edition, bro. All that shit is *optional*, you get it? You don't need to have any of the complicated shit. You can skip encumberance and have a house rule about keeping it sensible. You can ignore clerical spheres and just let clerics cast whatever. You can ditch initiative and go clockwise around the table.>B...but that's... the book... the rules...Look, I have no idea what you THINK you know about AD&D but back in the day we houseruled and homebrewed every fucking table. Joining a new group meant learning local rules. Hell, the "Nat 20 = double damage before adding bonuses" thing was a common houserule for 20 years before it made it to the books. Also, the 2e book literally says every goddamn rule is optional, and that an optimal session has almost no dice rolling, beating the narrative games genre to the punch by 3 decades.We didn't dickride Gary Gygax like he was Jesus Buddha Ghandi Muhammad Bruce Lee, either. He was just an old man that wrote shit we thought was boring when we were kids, with uninspiring layout and poor taste in artwork.
>>94283277>I an le epic old school gamerSure sure
>>94233888I know there's a wandering monster system that uses dungeon rosters instead of rolls. For example, monster patrol #3 (two goblins riding an ogre) has the patrol pattern 1-2-3-8-9-1. Every dungeon turn they move to the next room in their sequence, so every fifth dungeon turn their in room number 9, dungeon turns ending in X1 or X6 their in room 1, etc.
>>94283611That sounds like a cool system. I just use a dice clock.
>>94265219Don't feed the trolls
>>94283236Every overwrought culture caught up on ceremony is overturned by people who don't give a fuck about that and have shit to do. I don't care if you meditate or not.
>>94283277>an optimal session has almost no dice rollingWhat a horrifying, sad thought. That alone tells how fun your take on 2e must be.
>>94283236The samurai were fucking jokes, just nobleman with illegal weaponry. They would regularly get their shit rocked by Portuguese sailors so often that samurai were not allowed to duel foreigners. You might like to meditate on that, fucking weeb
>>94283241You're a fucking dipshit then. 2e is a story fag snowflake game and it does not support actual dungeon crawling procedure. Stop acting like a retard.>>94283277Cool, maybe you and your group should actually try playing the basic game first and learning the fundamentals before you start crying about how you can theorycraft your perfect game out of a shitty game
>>94283611Totally useless nonsense.
>>94269050I was just scrolling through the thread and I'm not part of the original discussion, but your posts immediately caught my attention because of their faggy retard energy. I just wanted to tell you to kill yourself.
I’m beginning to think the split of /osrg/ and /todd/ was meaningless given both generals seem to be infected with the same fuming shitheads.
>>94287850/Todd/ was initially a specific troll that hates osr, they posted as much. Currently osr and any sort of actual gameplay, is being trolled /tg/ wide.
>>94287850The reason for /todd/ is that there are many games that are off-topic on /osrg/ but some people want to discuss.You can't avoid shitheads and trolls just by creating a new general, so don't expect that.
>>94288232>there are many games that are off-topic on /osrg/ but some people want to discuss.Okay. What are those games? Where are those people? It was six days between OP and the Murraypost this time and 37 replies if I've counted right. Probably one-third of those are open shitposts.
>>94287926It's a discord dedicated to trying to destroy anything D&D related. At first it was just WoTC 5e because they're so woke but now they seem to just hate anything that vaguely resembles D&D. On a low population general like this it causes issues while on 5eg it gets more drowned out.>>94288801>What are those games?I was told Castles and Crusades isn't for the OSR general because while it started the OSR movement it's a black sheep. I'm sure there are other systems that belong here instead.
>>94288974>On a low population general like this it causes issues while on 5eg it gets more drowned out.To be fair, shit-talking 5e is like saying the beach is wet.
>>94289137>To be fair, shit-talking 5e is like saying the beach is wet.After 5 years I'm just bored of it. That's why I'm running a different game. I had a group that played different indie games every month or so. We did GURPS, Skeletons, Mothership, and WoD. It's a shame they invited a tranny who was an insufferable cunt or else I would still be part of that group.
>>94288974>I was told Castles and Crusades isn't for the OSR general because while it started the OSR movement it's a black sheep. I'm sure there are other systems that belong here instead.I think you're missing my point here. Are there really people, plural, more than one, who want to *discuss* Castles and Crusades? If so, where are they? Same goes for every other game. If there are actually people interested in Pirate Borg, Cairn, Knave, Into the Odd or what the fuck ever, how come this general is a ghost town with no fucking posts talking about those?Here, let me make this super simple for you with pedagogical examples: /awg/ is a general for people who like the more obscure wargames. In this thread, people actually discuss those wargames, and so the general has existed for probably over a decade at this point. There are consistently people, in the thread, talking about various games that they play, or want to play.Right now, on the board, there's a thread up about Mutant Chronicles, a fucking 30-year-old RPG and wargame, which is maybe the third or fourth in a row of those threads. I lurked in those threads for a bit, and I would estimate that there are 3-6 posters making 90%+ of the posts. Yet still, they've kept their threads going for a good couple weeks, simply because there are at least three of them who all genuinely want to talk about the game, and so they keep hitting bump limit.You see anything like those behaviors in here? Anything like that shit?
>>94288974None of the borgs or Crawford's games are OSR but they get talked about here
>>94289755I see 108 replies which is enough to justify the general's existence on a slow dying board like /tg/. Instead of being toxic and trolling a general that clearly doesn't interest you start your own thread about a particular interest you have.
>>94289755Right now, on this board, there's >10 bumpfag thread of "what are elves like in your setting" type. Why don't you use your janny power to delete them? You can't? Then maybe shut your whore mouth.
>>94288801Why are you posting here, Anon? You're obviously not interested in the topic, so surely there must be a better use of your time than coming here to complain.
