Dead links edition>>IF YOU ARE ASKING A QUESTION, PLEASE SPECIFY WHICH GAME YOU'RE PLAYING<<<Previous thread: >>94298861/pfg/ (pathfinder 1e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/RSt0rF0T/p2g/ (pathfinder 2e) link repository: https://pastebin.com/1zySxwm3/sfg/ (starfinder) link repository: https://pastebin.com/5yp9s2U3/s2g/ (starfinder 2e) link repository: https://paizo.com/store/pathfinder/rulebooks/core/3eg/ (D&D 3.X) link repository: https://pastebin.com/VMRsxB2m/pacgg/ (pathfinder adventure card game) link repository:https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_games_considered_the_bestThe T̶r̶o̶v̶e̶ Vault (seed, please!): bit<dot>ly/2Y1w4Md>>CHECK THE SHARE THREAD FOR MISSING MATERIALS<<TQ: What fundamental changes should a theoretical/eventual third edition have?
>>94336380TQ wishes: crafting, kingdom building, more balanced spell math. I could also see an eventual 3e having vtt and digital access cooked in from the start, with additional considerations for what you could do while digitally assisted rather than emulating faster what you do at the table already
>>94334683The Palatine detective archetype's methodology grants Occultism or Religion training, Quick Identification as a skill feat, a divine cantrip, an occult cantrip, and Intelligence as a casting attribute. That is it. This methodology is absolutely nothing compared to alchemical sciences, empiricism, or forensic medicine.The mandatory Palatine Detective Dedication feat at 2nd is better. +1 status bonus to saving throws against mental effects, and:>Mystic Aegis [reaction] (concentrate, magical) Trigger A creature you have successfully Recalled Knowledge about would damage you; Requirements You have a free hand; Effect You brandish your charm, channeling and shaping the forces within it to protect you from harm. You gain resistance to all damage equal to 2 + half your level rounded up against the triggering effect.The reaction is nice, but the methodology leaves much to be desired.Esoteric Spellcasting at 4th is a 1st-level divine or occult innate spell once per day; at 6th, you get a 2nd-rank, and at 8th, you receive a second rank, all from the same tradition as your initial pick. You can take Esoteric Spellcasting a second time to choose the tradition you did not select the first time.Palatine Enchantment at 6th improves your Devise a Stratagem against any creature eligible for Occultism or Religion Recall Knowledge. The strike benefiting from Devise a Stratagem gains the benefit of a Ghost Touch or Vitalizing rune.Palatine Strike at 8th improves your precision damage with strategic strike by 2d6 against a creature you have successfully Recalled Knowledge about using Occultism or Religion.Challenge Insight at 8th is a once-per-day reaction counterspell against a divine or occult spell, using Occultism versus an occult spell or Religion versus a divine spell. If you succeed, the caster is also stupefied 1.Greater Esoteric Casting at 12th is the 4th/5th/6th-rank version.
Battle Harbinger is so fucking ass, bros, why did I ever believe?>>94336412Yea it's extremely middling at best, kind of pointless at worst. Very baffling compared to the rivethun stuff.
>>94336469gigabrain is to play a godling first and establish yourself as non-shitty diety gameplaywise and suddenly its ok
>PF2eDoes Ruffian Rogue sneak attack work with the Pick trait Fatal? If not, how does it make sense that i can sneak attack with a normal hit but not with a critical hit? Seems like a major oversight
>>94336487Run the numbers and stop caring that you're missing 1d6 on top of your oodles of damage you tiny greedlord.
>>94336380>What fundamental changes should a theoretical/eventual third edition have?More crunch, more edge, more pimps and more pushers. The strive to turn Golarion and the Pathfinder system into Diet Faerun has been disastrous for the system and setting.
>>94336475That doesn't fix harbinger itself just being completely ass
>>94336412Oh, and I suppose there is also the thaumaturge's Thaumaturgic Ritualist at 6th.
>>94335506Alright I'm awake again. What god group do you guys want first?As usual, I'll take bribes in the form of cute girls. Demons, angels, dragons, and I'm feeling nuns today too.
pf2e, how do i make sure my bbeg doesn't get one shot before he can act without being lame?
>Abomination vault getting a videogame>it's an arpg like diabloWHY
>>94336600On what level range, on higher end I just did Elite PL+1/2 but doubled the HP because solos are just not really that engaging on high levels and explode
>>94336615Diablo (the very first one at least) is a good game.
>>94336631I like diablo, i was just hoping for an owlcat style crpg instead
>>9433662910-12
>>94335410So I guess they just forgot to give these access to any of the mystery locked level 10 cursebound feats. How very typical of them to forget about some minor detail in the feats when making new subclasses that makes them essentially incomplete. It certainly isn't the first time.
>>94336615Better that than a 1-to-1 copy of 5-feet corridors and 20-by-20 squares with zero roleplay.
>>94336663if owlcat can turn the piece of shit that is wrath of the righteous into a great crpg so can anyone to abomination vaults
>>94336469>Battle Harbinger is so fucking ass, bros, why did I ever believe?It's martial proficiency scaling with more spell slots than a magus, what more do you want?
>>94336639Make it PL+2, give it two brutish mooks that are there to be more a nuisance with Grabs, repositions and shoves, give him terrain advantage, at this level a caster mook could have that one primal spell that puts up 2 bursts of very difficult terrain so create chokepoints. And just remember that your job is still to lose, but lose in style while having them feel that they can still die. If they use proper tactics instead of sudden charge+strike into strike x3 you should be ok with this
>>94336726>It's martial proficiency scalingIt lacks real, proper proper weapon specialization scaling, is Wisdom KAS still, and the aura spells are honestly less interesting or useful than just being a real martial who... Well, takes Marshal. Having 4-6 casts of bless/bane and benediction/malediction isn't exactly a huge flex compared to that many heal spells. The ability to increase the numbers of those auras is maybe a huge deal, but that only matters at kennel 12+ and is highly unreliable. It's a bizarrely composed archetype that feels half formed.
>>94336565Deities?
>>94336789there's more than a hundred of the fuckers, anon. I'm asking what groups you want covered.
>>94336565I have no strong opinions on what you do first, I guess I'm most interested in if there's any brand new entries? But take it from the top, leakanon, you're doing the gods' work.
>>94336496No, the Pick is a martial d6 weapon and is balanced as such, therefore it should fully work with the Ruffian sneak attack. I'm sure the designers didn't intend this interaction, and were actually refering to things like the Two-Hand trait
>>94336789>>94336805Alright, I'll start with the DIVINE SHIPPING CHARTand then I'll go from the top.
>>94336833>Calistria>Allies: Abadar, Desna, Erastil>Enemies: EveryoneWho was in charge of designing this map?
>>94336833this retarded bird could just do a red underline saying everyone and people would get the memo instead of this messCoatl Tribunal next
>>94336833Lamashtu just needs a hug
>>94336833why is perfectly bald monk enemies with Jesus D'arc?
>>94336944because jesus darc, mystery nigga and drunk nigga cheated according to him due to starstone when he became a god from just being HIM
>>94336944Irori always had a big issue with those that use the Starstone to get to godhood. Remember, he just perfected his way to godhood.
>>94336833holy fuck this thing is worthlessly formatted for anyone who isn't already 100% familiar with the entire core 20 rosteranyway going back to peep the ToC, I guess I lied, I'm pretty interested in Divine Accords, but that feels like it needs other stuff first. I'll second Coatl Tribunal, and nominate Goblin Gods next.>>94336939She can get a hug, alright, the kind that snaps her neck and back
>>94336833Man, Pathfinder deities are so soulless...compare any of those with Pholtus of the Blinding Light, Saint Cuthbert of the Cudgel, Trithereon the Summoner, etc.
>>94336912You're reading it wrong. You only count the lines that actually connect to their portrait and follow them straight. Calistria has 3 lines touching her so she only has 3 connections, which are>Lover: Cayden>Ally: Desna>Enemy: Rovagug
>>94336969>>94336912Looking back, they still fucked up that simple rule in multiple other places though. Yeah it's fucked. I got baited by your example and didn't even look at the rest of the image. I regret defending this garbage.
>>94336966are you serious? i love pathfinder deities
>>94336929You got it anon, exactly 3 snakes coming up.>>94336965Gorblins next.
>>94336965>>94337008Groblons. Open to next suggestions?
More like 3.5 snakes.>>94337090Empyreal Lords?
>>94337008>>94337090huh that's neat, and lmao only one holy-sanctified goblin deity, and they use a longswordI'll second Empyreal Lords, and add Gods of a Feather, Archdevils and Queens of the Night, and Azlanti Gods as interesting options next. Feel like we gotta get everything out of the way before we move on to Accords.
>>94336615Honestly without adding in extra content from the beginners box and troubles in otari, or writing homebrew about Rajani, the mayoral election, or various backstory related shenanigans + maybe a midgame trip to absalom I couldn't see much more to the game beyond a diablo clone. Don't you think another AP would be better suited?
>>94337139Gods of a Feather is just the opening text of that chapter, sadly. I'll do empyreal lords next but it's a bit thick, so I'll hop in the shower and get some food first.
>1eI have questions about the Swarm Mongler.Please help me with the Swarm Mongler.>If the Familiar has a strength bonus such as from the Mauler archetype, does the Swarm damage deal a damage bonus?>In general, is there any way to improve the damage of Swarm damage, either with extra die or bonus damage?>Is a Wild Shape build feasible, or is it better to stay as a pure caster?>Since the Swarm Shape keeps your equipment and you can still cast spells with Natural Spell, can you cast self stuff like Magic Fang or Cape of Wasps for more bang for your buck?>Raven, spider, or wasp if you worship Calistrea?I hate Druids so fucking much, it's either this one or the Treesinger I give a shit worth trying What do you mean I have to wait fifteen minutes for the captcha.
>>94337178>If the Familiar has a strength bonus such as from the Mauler archetype, does the Swarm damage deal a damage bonus?No. Swarm deal automatically damage based on their HD, nothing else. >In general, is there any way to improve the damage of Swarm damage, either with extra die or bonus damage?"dealing 1d6 points of damage at 1st level and using the swarm monger’s druid level as the swarm’s Hit Dice to determine damage increases as per the swarm subtype">Is a Wild Shape build feasible, or is it better to stay as a pure caster?Wild Shape builds in general can be some of the most powerful builds in the game. Requires knowhow and sometimes liberal interpretion of rules though. Not sure if Swarm Mongler Swarm Shape is worth it though. Pure caster is easier to build for power however.>Since the Swarm Shape keeps your equipment and you can still cast spells with Natural Spell, can you cast self stuff like Magic Fang or Cape of Wasps for more bang for your buck? Because Swarm Shape works like Swarm Skin -spell, you can't cast while in it even with Natural Spell "While in this form, you cannot use any of your own abilities or take any actions other than controlling the swarms."
>>94336769I can definitely agree with it being incomplete and half-finished, but I do think the battle aura concept holds more water than just it being an overglorified Marshal. Especially as luckshitting a Bane/Malediction proc is more effective than hoping your allies crit while Dread Marshal Stance is up or trying to work with the 10ft/20ft size of Inspiring. And the Legendary Class DC scaling is interesting, especially when you are crit-fishing.It's a weird concept that needs more cleaning and feats to really work out. More ways for the allies to use your battle auras, more auras in general (why not slap some elemental damage based on your deity's domain?), Creed Magic can be cast with the Battle Font, their own version of Channel Smite/a spellstrike. The pieces are here, but they aren't filling out the gaps (and in the case of Level 7, completely forgot to give something). This may have been too big a concept to be given to the Lost Omens teams (surprise surprise, they drop the ball on things that require two pages because THEY DON'T READ)>>943366562 of these Mysteries aren't even brand new ones...LO team continue to depress me in new and confounding ways.
>>94336487I've seen this brought up on the reddit a few times. Yes, it's retarded and poorly-thought-through. Talk to your GM.Personally, I think they should've made it work with any weapon wielded in 1 hand. That seems to be a better proxy for the nebulous balance point they're trying to approximate with the d6 rule. Is a d8 longsword really that bad when a thief can grab stumbling stance through monk, or any human rogue can take the aldori dueling sword? There's also dueling spear, elven curve blade, or spiked chain if 2h is on the table.>>94336726>more spell slots than a magusOnly if you're counting the fucking Bless slots lmao.
>>94337423Any martial weapon wielded in 1 hand, to be clear. I have no issues with the simple weapon implementation.
We need a new male deity. One that fucks, and isn’t cringe. Cayden doesn’t count because he’s a Reddit male that’s currently buttfucking Torag’s son. I can’t even say Erastil counts because he was utterly gelded during the Resistance Years.
>>94337421Yea to be clear my biggest issue is that it's like, ROUGHLY 80% of the way there to being "pretty cool actually"? I don't hate it and think it's irredeemable trash, I'm mad at it for being SO CLOSE and then stumbling over its own feet because the LO team didn't proofread it. Where's the alternate sustain effects? Why make me buy access to the other half of the auras when the font is already objectively worse than the default Font? Why is Live The Creed level 20, when that (or Tandem Onslought) should be the dedication benefit? I know I'm a broken record but the KAS and weapon spec thing genuinely bewilders me.It doesn't help that I've been staring at alchemist for a couple weeks now and feeling a similar level of befuddlement at it. That's a much harder thing to really figure out a solution for, at least. I'm not even confident in what I proposed last thread >>94301155 here, I'm just throwing shit at the wall.
>>94337521What, you don't like Depressed Man?
>>94337423I wouldn't count out Bless slots, the spell is pretty damn good. Being able to throw that out 4 times in one day from Level 1 makes you a really reliant buffbot while still being a frontliner. Sure, Warpriest will be tankier, but Heal by its very nature is incredibly reactive and takes off tempo (unless you are fighting undead). And the other spells can help synergize with other supports that may take up the +1 bonus like Bard.The concept isn't bad, it just doesn't do MORE than that. The Battle Aura are all just incredibly simple, so it is weird to build a whole concept around them and not bother fleshing them out.>>94337523>It doesn't help that I've been staring at alchemist for a couple weeks now and feeling a similar level of befuddlement at it.It's not really that difficult to fix, it is just a matter of if you think a Quick Item Use wouldn't be that meta-changing. Which with the debut of Exemplar, guess not!
>>94337527I like gods you can chew on. Gods with grit. Lamashtu is a very chewable god, it’s why she’s one of my favorites. Shelyn is a chewable god, her association with love and beauty without descending into the usual hedonism/sex trap is refreshing - though being part of that “tee hee goddess threesomes oh my goddess <3” situation is so eye-rolling.None of the male gods have any grit. Erastil kinda did in the day, but he lost even that shred of dynamism. Abadar is Racism Man and Cayden drinks White Claws. Torag is Dwarf and Nethys is… Ugh, you see the issue here? Where’s the male god with an aesthetic worth relishing if you’re playing something more complicated than a Funny Snark Guy?
>>94337562>Lamashtu has grit>Asmodeus, Norgorber, Zon-Kuthon don'tMake it make sense
>>94337536>It's not really that difficult to fixFolding item activation into quick alchemy/drawing the item for sure solves the largest frustration point I've run into with building/playing one at least ("everything but bombs has dogshit action economy compared to what it actually does"), and just going "fuck it you can bean your pal upside the head with it automatically in a small range" makes it miles more intuitive. It's mostly anything after that where I start scratching my head, because it's a lot more up for debate whether proficiencies, advanced alchemy scaling, double brew, etc etc etc is necessary to change.Admittedly I have also been massively overthinking it. This (and my playgroup) isn't reddit, where the tiniest mention I think something might need a change for playability will get me put on a cross.
>>94337576Norg exists purely so rogues have an easy god to worship, and Asmodeus is just Satan. There’s nothing there besides Satan. Zon-Kuthon has chops due to his association with Shelyn, and the Drukhari angle in Starfinder is kinda cool? But in Golarion he comes across as this silly Cenobite edgelord that exists as a relic from the days Pathfinder had a pair.
>>94337562Don't forget, at first it was implied Shelyn was neutral in love due to all the deities loving her, which was unique, but like Kurgess' parentage and Oathos, the Consort of Sarenrae, this has been forgotten.Hell, I thought Cayden hated the idea that he had a connection to Calistria in the 1st Edition, with the whole rumor about the Starstone test and him.
>>94337536>the spell is pretty damn goodIt's two actions for a +1 in a fairly tight AoE unless you commit additional actions. It's not that good. Bard mogs it pretty hard.Cleric has Zealous Rush now at least, but OTOH that's also when bard archetype can give you Courageous Anthem.
>>94337576>>Lamashtu has girth*fixed
>>94336833This chart makes NO FUCKING SENSE.Look at Iomedae, Irori and Lamashtu, look at the red lines above them and connecting them. The clear implication here is that somehow, this combined connection marks Irori as an enemy of at least one of them.The formatting then infers from Irori that just having a combined junction with the red lines marks them as an enemy. This logic then makes ANY intersection with a red line mark marks them as enemies.
>>94337536>>94337668>And the other spells can help synergize with other supports that may take up the +1 bonus like Bard.Forgot to address this - Malediction and Bane require saves, so they're not going to work half the time. And Benediction overlaps with Rallying Anthem; that's not to say you couldn't have a bard cast Courageous Anthem while you cast Benediction, or the bard cast Rallying Anthem while you cast Bless of course, but it does undercut the utility.On top of that, all of these are 1st-rank spells that do not heighten. Any divine caster could be shitting these out with wands, staves, and/or scrolls by the mid-levels. Hell, a war priest could fill its 1st- and 2nd-rank slots with these and still have more slots than harbinger ever will. Tandem Onslaught is the only real upside here aside from the weapon proficiency.
>>94337576despite not being core-20 how you'd rate ragathiel when it comes to grit (and if player data for religiously inclined classes was to be canonized he'd likely start making his way to said core 20)
>>94337738It gets worse the more you look at it. The singular thin red line got a chuckle out of me.
>>94337811They’d only let Ragathiel become a Core 20 if he started fucking Kurgess.
>>94337139>>94337122Sorry for delay, I'm about half done with the empyreal lords. It's very dense but also getting lunch was a bit of a nightmare.
>>94337562>Ugh, you see the issue here?Nope. Not at all. >Where’s the male god with an aesthetic worth relishingAbadar, Irori, Aroden (rip), Achaekek, Rovagug, Zon-Kuthon, Razmir, half of the Tian Xia dudes, the Osirion dudes and a lot of demigods.
>>94337888>OsirionAll dead, killed along with any deities associated with Hags in a big magical black hole event.
>>94337888the entire osirion pantheon got ate by a magical wormhole in War of Immortals.
>>94337911>>94337909Thats metal.>hagsIsnt there only one hag deity?
Gyronna, Mestama, and Alazhra
>>94337955There were three, actually. Gyronna, Mestama, Alazhra. The latter two weren't statted in 2e yet.
>>94337801As other people pointed out, sustaining them forces another save if they defended against them the first time. Pretty much the only real point of why it is so sustain heavy. You gonna hit your targets with a debuff eventually, especially if your Bard can't run both Anthem and Dirge of Doom together.You do bring up a valid point about Warpriest and why the Expert Spellcasting cap irks me. In practical play, they aren't paying that much (its hilariously ironic how they went from being pointless to being a little overstuffed compared to Cloistered) and still get Master/Master Weapon/Spell scaling, while Harbinger's Legendary Class DC scaling doesn't really promote itself well (if they got something like Double Slice, you might actually see a lot of genuine crit-fishing with them, to leverage Crit Weapon Specs). And maybe running a bunch of Wands of Bless is more reliable, if not budget-conscious. But I do think the Battle Auras all are good options if you don't have the optimal Bard in the party, which is entirely reasonable to expect.>>943379553 actually and none are Baba Yaga, who is more of an eldritch entity than a deity.Though I guess that number is zero, now.
>>94337976It didn't help that all Alazhra was tied to Night Hags and the three may be a reference to the Three Sisters origin story for Hags, which all were DND based.
>>94337976Oh god they're just going to make Baba Yaga become the new Hag God aren't they? She's spent SO LONG basically being on the CUSP of divinity, intentionally not doing so because it would actually limit her too much in what she can do, and they're going to take that part of her most interesting character traits and strip it away from her.
>>94337122>>94337139Okay Empyreal Lords done. I HOPE this is the thickest chapter of deities. For point of note for my process on this project, this is *50* layers of screenshots in clip studio paint.
Keltheald is now nonbinary, interesting
Maybe they simply realised that anything you can do with a cult of hag gods is more interesting if there's just a regular hag or coven at the top of it instead.
>>94338039>Falayna>Suddenly reminded they made the Lord of Womanhood a Muscle MommyUgh, where's the Empyreal Lord of Manhood?
>>94337999>intentionally not doing so because it would actually limit her too much in what she can doMaybe she wants to suck up to the veiled masters instead.>>94337976>>94337996Yeah, I only knew of Alazhra.
>>94338039Any mention of the old Hand of Iomedae who got replaced by Galfrey?>>94338071And apparently Pulura is just a woman now.
>>94335257>Shield the Faithful>+1 item bonus to AC>Doesn't stack with actual armorBut why?
>>94338039I think I recognize some of this art as being reused from 1e
>>94338039My man Jaidz didn't make it in. Oh well. I don't need more info on him even if it would have been nice.
>>94338161I swear that was Arshea
>>94338039>no arquerossad.
>>94338191Pulura's image? It doesnt matter, he always had that depiction as a woman. It's just that it was clear that sometimes it showed itself as a man and sometimes as a woman.SURELY you're not implying that the Hand became the gayest empyreal lord of them all, right?
>>94338211That’s exactly what I’m implying because Paizo would 100% do that. They turned Cayden gay.
>>94338218He used to be the herald of Ragathiel and Iomedae and lead the crusader's forces against the abyss. What the FUCK does that have to do with freedom and abandon? And didnt Arshea exist before?>they turned cayden gayHe was always a faggot.
>>94338235It’s current year, anon. Most of the big buff warriors are women or homosexuals. Don’t get invested in the lore of a shitty game.
>>94337872>>94338039hella, thanks leakanon
>>94338590what do you want next? nobody's pointing me at anything so I took a nap until just now.
Speaking of gods, any mention of the dragon gods? We had the names Garhaazh and Otilaz are some of the names dropped. Any others or nothing?
>>94338656there's no draconic god collection, but I can search for names in Apsu and Dahak.
Appreciated. Thanks for doing these searches. It seems that the authors for WoI and this book didn't communicate. Not surprising.
>>94338747>It seems that the authors for WoI and this book didn't communicateIs paizo working with comissions a la 3.5 instead of internal teams for lorebooks? I know they used to do that for APs, but...
>>94338617Anything on the Eldest in there?Ng Specifically?
>>94338780Ng's in there. I'll hit the eldest next for you anon.If you got any soft ladies while we're waiting though...>>94338776Lost Omens seems to be a different team compared to normal pf2 content.>>94338747no problem! I'm just doing my civic duty as someone sick of waiting to get these damn books out there in the wild.
>>94338039>>94338171Yeah, I was wondering that. I know Korada was definitely in one of the Bestiary books.
>>94338039Looks like they messed up Neshen. His edicts got put in both the edict and anathema boxes.
>>94338817Not Many, but I'll see what I can dig from my folders
>>94338986>>94338780Eldest. Sorry for delay, life stuff was happening.Any suggestions and bribes for what's next?
somehow fooled myself into thinking Divine Mysteries was going to have more spells. It sure is nice to have all the domains remastered now, but I was super disappointed to only see TWO new divine spells.
>>94339687It's an orc, but I hope she's soft enough. Got anything on the Demon Lords?
>>94340594>>94339687forgot to attach
anyone has space for a new player?
The Bulk of weapons in Starfinder 2e does not make much sense, and this actually matters for carrying capacity, Swallow Whole (e.g. void sharks), and the like.After having fought some void sharks, which make weapon Bulk matter a fair bit, I have to say that weapon Bulk does not make much sense right now. The only Bulk L ranged weapon is the semi-auto pistol. An arc, laser, needler, pulsecaster, or zero pistol is Bulk 1: same as a doshko, a painglaive, or an arc emitter. And while an archaic gauntlet is Bulk L, a high-tech battleglove is Bulk 1. Remember that Bulk 1 weapons are unusable inside Swallow Whole.There is no listed Bulk for a solarian's solar weapon, either, so it is unknown as to whether or not it can be used inside Swallow Whole.
>>94340595>It's another, "big stinky Orc that's actually super girly" image.
Seconding Demon Lords if they weren't in previous thread
>>94339687>>94341581thirding demon lords, I conked out pretty early yesterday so I didn't do my due diligence of posting any offerings
Need some opinions for a pf2e Spinner (Fates) Witch on a dedication. We are running free archetype but that free archetype slot can only ever be one specific archetype (cant swap around with that slot, but can take extra dedications from normal class feats).Mostly looking at the following:familiar master - utility, can deliver spells from another zip code, flavorwizard - more spells on a different list which is great but frankly doesnt come online for a decent bit since dedication gets the spell slots 3ish levels late, also kinda boring since its just "wow you are just yourself but more caster"rogue - utility god, would shore up some weaknesses in comp and just general skills and whatnot (could do my own bon mot instead of relying on a party member, for example) and less so:ritualist - good flavor, but in a way rogue is just as good or better for rituals if your party/secondary casters can hit their rollsloremaster - I am become recall knowledge, destroyer of worldspsychic - mostly for the dedication itself with amp guidance since it doubles down on my gimmick of giving +1s out with Nudge Fate, some more occult spells as well
Wait, what happened to Lymneris? I didn't see him in the Empyreal Lords.
>>94335145Rivethun Emissary looks like it's actually a pretty banger archetype for Alchemists. Decent dedication even if the skills it grants aren't super good for alchemist, and it gives you the familiar feats you might otherwise be missing + two bonus familiar abilities, pairs nicely with alchemical familiar if you want to familiarmaxx. Then for bombers (or anyone taking quick bombs I guess), that mandatory familiar ability seems kind of nuts actually? Sure, it needs an action, but swapping any bomb's damage type to Spirit is a pretty neat trick to have on-hand. I don't think persistent damage counts as a duration, so acid flasks could go apeshit.>>94342513IMO Rogue archetype is probably your best bet for a single-bang archetype, loremaster's value feels like it depends on how your GM rules untrained improvisation (since iirc general lore DCs are -2, specific lores are -5?). Psychic will be naturally GOATed, of course, hard to go wrong with it.
>>94342644>IMO Rogue archetype is probably your best bet for a single-bang archetype, loremaster's value feels like it depends on how your GM rules untrained improvisation (since iirc general lore DCs are -2, specific lores are -5?). Psychic will be naturally GOATed, of course, hard to go wrong with it.That was what I was thinking too, especially since for Psychic I could just take the dedication outright @ 2 or something and get amped guidance for just the cost of a basic lesson. Rogue also frees up a general feat since it gives armor so I could take innate spells from the racial feats.
>>94342513Unfortunately that restriction makes it so you almost only want multiclass archetypes, because a lot of them won't have feats all the way to level 20.I like the idea of Thaumaturge if you can swing it; you don't get esoteric lore, but you get lots of occult flavor feats and some useful stuff.>scroll thaumaturgy/esoterica>paired link>one more activation>thaumaturgic ritualist>turn away misfortune>one thaum implement (Tome, wand, mirror, lantern, chalice don't require you to glimpse vulnerability first)
>>94341164Also, a Starfinder 2e container does not increase Bulk limits, unlike a Pathfinder 2e backpack. This is a significant oversight that can make it hard to carry equipment.
>>94340595>>94341581>>94342475Alright. I'll hit them shortly.>>94341333be nice, someone will enjoy big orc girls.
So they expect the Harbinger to be using vicious swing as it's main damage attack?
>>94342975I don't think they actually expect it to do jack shit for damage, just be a kind of bad version of bard or marshal shit
Are there actually any class archetypes that are better than the vanilla option or at least worth the cost? Seneschal witch is so-so since it doesn't fuck up anything, but that's about it.
>>94343065avenger seems decent enough, and you could maybe make a case for flexible wizard?
>the one archetype I wanted to be good is actually meh>the others I didn't care about look way betterI don't even know what the fuck to do with the harbinger.It feels like they just tried to make a holy magus and gave up halfway through.
>>94342943After Demon Lords can we get the section with the "Nature of the Divine" section?Of course, here is my offering
>>94343113I feel you, it's not even particularly hard to like, fix some of the stupid parts? I'm already making notes even>Can take KAS Str or Dex>Benediction and Malediction are automatically added to the Battle Font, if not at level 1, then at 3rd or 5th levels>Dedication does not lock you out of other archetypes, and adds the effect of Live the Creed (once per 10 minutes, cast an aura spell as a single action)>Live the Creed is removed from the feat pool [why in the everloving fuck is that a 20th level feat?]>Weapon Specialization and Expert Class DC both moved to be the 7th level Creed abilities>Greater Weapon Specialization added at level 15>Tandem Offense also grants an alternative sustain effect of “increase the bonus or penalty of the sustained aura by 1 until the end of your next turn”, which can be done instead of increasing aura size. (This doesn’t force enemies to reroll their save, nor does it let Empowered Onslaught go above a 4 total.)
>>94343127I can give it a look. Any god lists you want if it's just flavor?>>94342475>>94341581>>94340594Demon lords for youuu
>>94343187Desu I would also make creed magic a basic class feature. They overvalued the fuck out of this battle font.I'm also really struggling to even think of a few normal cleric feats to pick. I might just pick a wizard/witch archetype with arcane and spam the fuck out of sure strikes.
>>94343315paizo is really propping up vulot huh
>>94343315>Sithhud killed Kostchtchie>Paizo doesn't even have the balls to mention him by nameHOLY SHIT.
>>94343522Didn't we kill SIthhud in WotR?
>>94342713>a lot of them won't have feats all the way to level 20To be fair it is just an adventure path where at absolute most we will hit 13, but yeah you do have limited options with some of the others.
For Pathfinder 1e what are some good feats for a primarily 'tank' fighter that uses a sword and board?
>>94343759
>>94343790Combat Reflexes good, though without reach weapon it does not get full benefits. You can use Combat Patrol -feat to mitigate that a bit though. If you want to actually use shield for something then many of your feats are going to get eaten by shield bash feats and two-weapon fighting.Weapon Trick(Weapon and Shield) feat is fun to have.And then if you want to captain america around with the shield there is some feats for that.
>>94343522Maybe Paizo just plans on doing Giantslayer 2 Electric Boogaloo with all the former Kostchtchie followers going crazy over the fact that their patron just got erased from memory. Really though he was too similar to the WotC version so they had to excise him.
>>94344256>Maybe Paizo just plans on doing Giantslayer 2 Electric BoogalooThese companies have no liver. You're going to get some milquetoast story about *fighting for what's right* while all the gay shit happens in the books Paizo knows most players are never going to read. Remember when Paizo actually put their money where their mouth is, and made War for the Crown? The one with Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton (Lily)? They probably got raked over the coals for that one, which is why we're never going to see it's ilk again.
>>94344552Holy shit, I just looked it up too. War for the Crown came out in 2018, smack-dab in the middle of America's corporate-sponsored "Resistance" era. Of course it all makes sense. The only chance you've got to see some thinly-veiled "heh, these angry white misogynists are at it again" story is if Paizo got their brains scrambled from Trump getting his second term. Which could happen, but I doubt it.>>94344256
>>94343790>Friendly SwitchExtremely useful feat. It's at its best if you get enlarged. By displacing squishy allies away from enemies you can actually 'tank' by preventing full-attacks and forcing AoOs if enemies want to chase them.>Shield Focus -> Shield Brace/Unhindering ShieldIf you kept Armor Training you can skip the Shield Focus prerequisite. You 'tank' by keeping the enemy's focus on you, which only happens if you are an actual threat. With this combo you can wield a two-handed reach weapon and benefit from a shield bonus. >Iron will ->Familiar Bond -> Improved Familiar BondChoose the Protector archetype for your familiar and your effective HP increases by +50% at lv 5 and +100% at lv 11. In addition to boosting your weak saving throws.If you are gonna be playing at mid/high levels, you could aim for Heroic Interposition combined with the Abundant Tactics AWT (advanced weapon training) and Barroom Brawler. This is a very potent combo which will make you a very mobile defender.
>>94344256They didn’t even mention Kotachschie’s name. It’s 100% because of WotC.
>>94344569>war for the crown: adventure where you work as deep state agents helping the dems rig the electionIt was a good AP.
>>94344622It's so fucking bad. Pythareus by rights should have been Emperor - hell, by rights it should have been Carrius II.But of course, it was HER TURN so I guess we've got 40+ years of Eutropia until Carrius II can take it, assuming Eutropia doesn't have kids. Considering Paizo wants her to be an Elizabeth figure that ushers Taldor back into global prominence, I guess it's inevitable.
Can someone give me the tl;dr of how the Veskarium lost control of Pulonis, and does it make any sense whatsoever, or did Paizo just go "oh shit we accidentally made an empire of militaristic dinosaur TradChads, and they're popular as fuck... better make 'em incompetent!"
>>94344636The last-second heel-turn that Carrius II was salvageable and is now some sort of Hantei-type super-heir with a fast-dial to the greatest Emperors in Taldor's history was such a strange heel-turn in a story that was, up until that moment, all about how men need to step aside and let women take center-stage, because men are icky. Maybe it was Paizo realizing they got too lost in the sauce? Book 2 was entirely about evicting a man from his lands because the bastard wanted to rule, Book 3 was the false flag one, I think? The one with the misogynist Abadarite priest. And then you got into the whole situation with Pythareus and how he was a rancid misogynist. The throughline was clear - men are stodgy, women represent progress.So why the fuck did Carrius II get to live? Why did they have to give Eutropia an heir? Commit to the bit, Paizo, tell us Taldor becomes some gay-ass democracy or something. We know that's what you want.
So what exactly is The Newborn's deal? If alignment were still a thing, would it be TN or CN?
>>94344636The global culture is going to be different by the time Paizo is wrapping up this edition. Don’t worry about that.
>>94344667>So why the fuck did Carrius II get to live?Because he's now "the most eligible bachelor in the Inner Sea," anon. Paizo got to have their cake and eat it, too. They got their quirky sweetheart as the ruler of Taldor, and they still have a bonafide handsome, thoughtful and gentle-hearted turbo-chad in the wings for all those female PCs to woo. At least, that's what I'm reading off the wiki.
>>94344664I always figured that a plucky group of 4-5 adventurers of different classes banded together to attain Pulonian independance shortly after reaching level 20, several weeks after meeting eachother at level 1 where they were hired to kill space rats in a space basement.And a group of 4-5 plucky adventurers meeting up to kill rats in a basement can do basically anything within a few in-game weeks. Achieve political dependents, slay gods - though it's mostly just a lot of Sealing Away the Recently Awakened Ancient Evil.>>94344680It feels like it kind of doesn't really *have* a deal. Like they took the "planet that is implied to be the egg for a spooky eldritch god" and put 0 spin on it, just played it as straight as you possibly could without introducing any new information. The planet egg hatches, and a spooky eldritch god pops out - the eldritch god of being spooky and eldritch and hatching out of planets. Like they were afraid to actually make a decision on it so instead it's just exactly what you guessed it'd be and nothing more.
>>94344695>The global culture is going to be different by the time Paizo is wrapping up this edition.It will, but Paizo will still be staffed by the same aging milk-blooded dweebs that somehow spooked themselves into being two-bit PG-13 puritans. What was the turning point? Where did it happen? Hell's Rebels is an obvious choice but I think it started later, with Ironfang Invasion. That's when Trump Derangement Syndrome really started to take hold, and it's when they started really pushing how they've got THE FIRST OFFICIALLY GAY NPC or whatever.
Reflect harm on an imperial sorc is insanely cracked against enemy casters. Doesn't come up often enough to be something you're building your whole guy around but when it happens and you hit, it's incredible. >Enemy starts casting spell>Use arcane countermeasure as a reaction>If the spell is heightened, it gets pulled down a rank. Whatever it is, everyone it targets gets a +2 to their save or AC against the spell>Also triggers blood magic for reflect harm>If the spell does any damage, you get to make a spell attack back at them with no reaction cost. A hit means they take whatever you took. A crit means they take double what you took, potentially 4x what they rolled if you crit failed a save and then crit the reflection
>>94344889Brother, they had a 2 page writeup about how transgender Anevia is back in wrath of the righteous.
>>94344908But that was also the AP where you go to the Sex Dimension and get courted by Shit Demons, it's the AP where you can fuck the Whore Demon of Sex and one of the most prominent NPCs is quite literally the Redeemed Succubus GF that everyone meme'd back in the 2010s. I don't ascribe to describing that kind of "chocolate box" approach to representation as "lefty" because of it, otherwise you'd call Guilty Gear "woke" when it's still got voluptuous sex babes alongside stocking stuffer Transwomen.I guess I'm saying my criteria for "Turning Point" is where the AP has "woke" but none of the old Paizo standards of dangerously based sex stuff and government-mandated waifus. Where you know the pronouns of an NPC but nobody seems remotely fuckable. War for the Crown is a good example of that because, apart from the Black Swan in Book 2, it's mostly just, "I'm upset Trump won the election." Same way Ironfang Invasion had a weird obsession with limb amputation and there wasn't a single cute, redheaded huntress with a braid that's In Your Area.
>>94344961>otherwise you'd call Guilty Gear "woke" when it's still got voluptuous sex babes alongside stocking stuffer Transwomen.Dude, they desexualized all the sex babes from May to Dizzy and made Bridget, a character about finding his masculinity, trans because of the west. Daisuke Iwashatari admits that.Guilty Gear is a prime example of going woke. The only girls that stayed the same or lost clothes with their redesigns was Baiken and Elphet (and Jack-O if only because no mask). Like Strive all you want, man, just don't lie to your own face that GG is the same as it ever was.
>>94344981>and made Bridget, a character about finding his masculinity, trans because of the west. Daisuke Iwashatari admits that.Nah, that was a decision the devs made. The pressure was to shit or get off the pot.
>>94343315any chance of a lookup on Groetus? not sure if i missed it. hit level 20 in my campaign last session, would be nice to give to the dm in prep for next session
>>94344981Doesn't this still fall in with what anon was talking about? They desexualized some of the women and turned Bridget trans, but they *still* had babes like Baiken and Elphet. There are still women you can point at and go, "I want to have sex with her!" Just like how WotR had Queen Galfrey and Arueshalae, even if it had Irabeth and Anevia too. Or how Reign of Winter had the single mother redhead *and* Greta as well as the transwoman elf in the Caves of Femininity.Going by that criteria, I'd still disagree with anon and say it started with Hell's Rebels. The pozz is off the charts with that one - even if the villain was so comically insane as to be almost charming - because it's got tons of cringe lefty bullshit like "Le Comfy Coffeeshop ran by lesbian Halfling" and nothing to balance it out. No babes like Curse of the Crimson Throne had, nothing. It's just, "save San Francisco, bigot."
>>94344889>What was the turning point?Jade Regent. Also, the same people who do the weak wristed shit today headed the creative direction even back in the glory days of 3.5. People change. And they can change once again.>>94345113No, it was Jade Regent 100%. It doesnt have any woke elements per se (unless you consider woman=woke) but it had the same narrative structure. >wotrEveryone hated wotr back in the day.
>>94344981GG didn't go woke, it was always woke. Daisuke is just out of touch with the westerners that he so admires.The strive retcon made bridget not trans, anyway. He's now an AFAB female in the retcon timeline.
>>94345187>The strive retcon made bridget not trans, anyway. He's now an AFAB female in the retcon timeline.Do you mean AMAB? This is big if true.
>Reading the Lost Omens Legends>mfw saw that the Revolutionary Leader of Galt is not just a woman, but black
So is there a single person in existence outside myself that wants to play challenging combats in PF (either edition)?Every single person I've played with is a retarded cunt who says every combat being difficult is too stressful. If you're playing a buildfaggot game like pathfinder and you're not looking for a challenge, you should be executed in real life.
>>94345332theres a fine balance between a hard encounter (challenging+) and spending 3 hours micromanaging hordes of enemies. sometimes u just wanna rp and kill some baddies with the homies
>>94345323Galt is in a very weird position in general. Night of the Grey Death kinda finished its story arc by pinning all the revolutions in some weird interdimensional worm and that the nobles dindu nuffin (?). So now we have Drannoch leading a post-revolution country with dubious legitimacy that thematically is just going to be Little Andoran.
>>94345332>Every single person I've played with is a retarded cunt who says every combat being difficult is too stressful.Fags. They would never make it in my games.
>>94345414I don't think they really know what they want to do with Galt. War of Immortals basically reset it back to anarchy. Godsrain hit them hard.
PF2edoes Invoke the Crimson Oath interact at all with exemplar weapon ikons?i.e. if i Invoke the Crimson Oath while I have my divine spark inside of my Mortal Harvest, would all the targets of Invoke take the persistent spirit damage?
>>94345332what kind of difficult, because just siccing Lesser Death in PL+2-4 range is difficult but most would also consider it rather cheap
were covenants posted already?
>>94343825is this from the new dlc? i've never seen it
>>94345876It's from Lord of Nothing, the sequel to the Through the Ashes DLC
>>94345881ah i haven't played that yet, not even the first one
>>94345353> and spending 3 hours micromanaging hordes of enemiesthis is the issueHard combats are nice in theory but holy FUCK do I not want 90% of a session to be just some big combat unless its a major setpiece
Are there Lithanies in Divine Mysteries or did only Oaths get an update?
>>94343315no news on Shamira rising to a full fledged demon lord yet?
Can we see Lamashtu and/or Zyphus? The former seems to have been retconned in PC1 to be a little greyer, so it’d be interesting to see how far they’ve decided to go there here. And the latter is just a fun meme of a god.
>>94345507Galt was hit harder than most so Paizo can eventually do some sort of lame Alexandre Dumas-type "The Three Heroes of the Count of Les Miserables" French pastiche. Normally that kind of thing would be very cool, but we're dealing with Paizo here. You really think we'll get gorgeous blonde Frenchwomen with their tits bulging out of their corsets, their honor defended by handsome musketeers with dashing mustaches? Never.Or they're going to do nothing with it, and we'll get another - hold on, why haven't they done more with the Mwangi Expanse? Didn't Paizo obsess over how they wanted 2nd Edition to be the edition they move away from "eurocentric" stories? They released a campaign setting book about the Mwangi Expanse and then did Strength of Thousands, and since then we've had 12 APs, 9 of which are in Avistan, 1 in Tian Xia and 2 in the "white" part of the Mwangi Expanse (Blood Lords and Outlaws of Alkenstar.)Pic semi-related, found it while counting up the APs.
So, speaking constructively - what would you do to make golarion more interesting? What changes would you make when running a game?
>>94345353Hard combats don’t need to be long. Just increase the lethality. Going over enemies is scuffed.
>>94346752Develop regions like northern casmarron rather than driving the story forwards this fast.
>>94346752Stop this pathetic attempt at Marvelizing your setting and get back to making edgy cringe. Pathfinder was always at its most sincere when it had you fighting rapist cannibal hillbillies, or dealing with horny winter wolf guardswomen - or hell, look at the first antagonist released! The dog fucking Aasimar who got teen pregnant! There’s no bite to the setting anymore, nothing to feel anything towards but a bland admiration. It’s like they shaved every edge away so you don’t feel it when they shove the campaign up your ass.And that’s the worst part. Paizo still has good campaign structure. Consider the 2e APs; Curtain Call? Frozen Flame? Strength of Thousands? Those have the bones of something amazing, each AP does something a little different and dynamic, you rarely get a conventional Goblins to Dragons type situation.But they’re written so safe. So clean and child-friendly. It’s so tiresome. Give me the edge again, Paizuri. I want to feel.
I don't understand exemplarCan multiple weapon ikons be applied to the same weapon? With twin stars, which creates duplicate weapons, can I imbue the second weapon with another weapon ikon?
>>94347838I should add, I know that only effects are applied when that ikon has your spark, I just want to know if you can have multiple ikons in the same weapon and just shift spark to a different ikon within that weapon or if it HAS to be a different physical weapon
>>94345654>>94345353Why would anyone do either of those? Nobody with a fucking brain is going to be making non-final encounters that take 3 hours, or spamming annoying enemies.Pathfinder is two different strategic gridded battle systems. The entire fucking point of playing these games over anything else is to have FUN strategic battles. Fun means there's an appropriate level of difficulty where playing out the battle actually matters. If there's no chance a moderate-severe combat is going to down (not kill) anyone, why aren't we just skipping the combat, narrating that shit, and rolling to see if anybody used up resources?Seriously, if you play these games for anything except combat, you need to play other games and realize you're an ignorant faggot or kill yourself.
>>94347838>>94347844So it seems like that *no*, a weapon is turned into an Ikon and different Base Ikons can't overlap with each other (not that there are a lot of Weapon Ikons that can overlap properly). Twin Stars doesn't give you another weapon, just a fake duplicate of one, so you don't add Ikon abilities on that. It has to be a different physical weapon.They really could add some further clarification on that, so don't feel too much like a brainlet.
>>94347962So I just realized the trick in language they are doing to split the Ikons and Ikon feats: you IMBUE more powers into Ikons, but Ikons use the standard Usage text, so they follow the standard Usage rules. It is treating all weapons like they were additional body parts, same way you can't wear two pairs of boots at once cause you only have one pair of feet. This is why you can't apply multiple weapon ikons to one weapon, but you IMBUE Ikon feats.
You know depite all the besmirching done in this edition to Razmir to make him even worse impotent wimp I gotta say his priest's archetype is kinda cool. Free extra HP to everyone, can make cleric MC occult-type if you want, some innate spell like abilities and deception support with items as well. Just now what class would use it best, a sorc or a thaumaturge
>>94348109I don't know about best, but I was thinking of using it with rogue or swash.
>>94336380Are all the links for the 1e pdfs dead?
>>94348222Been that way for a while, we keep them there to remember the good times. If you want active links, join the Share thread.
>>94348240Ah, I see, oh well.
>>94348068>>94347838>>94347844actually, you canmultiple ikons can be imbued in the same weapon, they just can only have one active at once, and you have to keep track of witch ikon you embedded specific feats intoit should be noted as well that the body ikons don't have any overlaps either. The only one that has a specific body part is gaze sharp as steel, and the others being skin or just body in generalIf an ikon is eligible for multiple weapon ikons, it can be imbued with them, just only the one with your spark in it can be active. Weapon swap/golfbag builds are mainly for the insane people that want to specifically use multiple different weapons, ie a fisherman exemplar with a noble branch fighting oar and a mortal harvest combat fishing rod
>infinite blades celestial arrow can only be used with a ranged weapon, thrown weapons can't be used this is so retarded I want to kill myself
why are falcatas not eligible for unconventional weaponry?
>>94348319not a racial or regional/cultural weapongnome flickmace is a racial weapon so a-okkatana is a weapon from a different region/culture (at least from the Inner Sea viewpoint)Falcatas are just an advanced weapon, they're just hard to use, not even rareif you wanna use them you can do so with tengu weaponry feats since they can choose any sword pretty much. If you don't wanna play a bird then just get adopted ancestry and make up an old tengu sensei for your backstory you filthy munchkin
>>94348433Oh I didnt know tengu had that feat actually that is kind of insane I was just dabbling around with a build and thought I'd have to end up playing an ancient elf instead purely for the extra archetype feat to get fighter advanced maneuver > advanced training at level 12 to get falcatas
>>94346663All those kinda-neat quotes, most from good movies or other media. Even if most of them don't actually have anything to do with their AP. And then Strength of Thousands lol. You think they had that shit pre-written and were just waiting to drop it?
>>94347757I agree with this but I just use the AP structure and add the edge myself. It's like a restaurant could put hot sauce on wings but instead you need to add your own now. It's a side effect of needing to sell more but by the end of the day I'll put up with the chore.
>>94348576Having played through most of SoT, it's not even about black lives mattering. In fact, race isn't even a major theme of the AP. Shave off the fact that it's set in the magaambya and everyone has funny names and accents, and it's a pretty bog-standard magic school campaign.Kind of ironic how performative it is.
In pf2e, would you go out of your way to try to get Bon Mot on a witch or another non CHA based spellcaster? CHA mod probably wouldn't go much higher than +1, but with rogue dedication I could take Diplomacy higher than just trained if need be. I'm just not sure if the scaling would be worthwhile. Someone else in the party does have the feat, but they don't use it terribly often (once or twice from level 1 to 4).
>>94348976I'd say 'no', but I'd be a liar because I did that in actual play on intimidate with a character who never uses it.
>>94348976Yeah if you have a few points in CHA and use a lot of will save spells.Another thing to add to the situational nature of the feat is that it's linguistic.So in a campaign against enemies that primarily don't know common it could be a dead feat.
>>94348976>>94349030One of my players took Bon Mot as a Scoundrel Rogue, so good to see some convo about it.
>>94349030Occult spell list so its predominantly will saves on the leveled spells. Another thing to note is that a good bit of the enemies are getting upleveled just because our party is pretty strong. That is the main reason I was considering it just to make the saves a bit more reliable to get failures/crit failures on. Naturally that would impact Bon Mot's success chance on a +1 or at best +2 CHA and trained/expert.
How much combat healing is needed for a party to be SAFE? I don't mean the "barely enough to get by" battle medicine repeated in every reddit thread that will fold to the slightest bit of bad luck. I mean actual long-term TPK avoidance healing.
>>94345070Hi anon. Sorry for late reply, not having a very good few days Power line got hit so I'm in the dark currentlyI'll try to get you Groetus on phone but no promises on pic quality.
>>94349506>I mean actual long-term TPK avoidance healing.Entirely depends on the encounters, most AP's you can get through without any in-combat healing except for maybe battle medicine and potions, some are brutal even with a dedicated Cleric as a heal bot. Homebrew stuff is the same, healing needed is super dependent on your groups tactics and the encounter design.
>>94349506I'd say the thing about combat healing isn't how much of it you need (not a lot), but that it's useful to have two people with the ability to do it. That can be a lifesaver in the event that one of them goes down at a bad time. Just about any party that, between them, has two different ways to heal damage is solid. Any combination of divine/occult/primal spellcasters, alchemist, champion, Blessed One, Medic, whatever. I don't really think this is the kind of game where you need a dedicated healer. Most party resources should be allocated to murder.Also, sorry to say it Anon, but Reddit's right. Somebody who builds for Battle Medicine puts out a fuckton of healing, both as spike healing and over the course of the adventuring day. The Medic archetype is cracked.
>>94349723Using Battle Medicine reliably with Assurance or just a lower DC for safety (because failing the check when you need healing is deadly) is, in general, less healing than Lay on Hands, which itself heals about half of a heightened Heal spell. That's not bad, but I feel it would still need another source of healing (second healer?), since I can't rely on being able to repeat Battle Medicine on the same target in that combat encounter.
What are the major differences between Pathfinder 1e and 2e? What does 2e do better or worse?For context I don't want to start a war, it's just that my current group will probably switch from 1e to 2e. I love 1e with its 3.5e ruleset and would prefer to stick with it as my chosen fantasy system. I'm just trying to find reasons other than having a consistent group (which to be fair is a very good reason).Also, I kind of have a negative bias towards modern systems like 5e and Pathfinder 2e since they seem to prefer streamlining at the cost of complexity, and their focus on creating a "balanced" system usually leads to restricting player freedom and power which in turn creates unremarkable and samey characters that can't truly specialize or shine. Other minor gripes include lame lore and reduced grittiness in general.
>>94349788I agree on the second source of healing, I guess my point was just that Medic is totally qualified to be one of those two. I'm a big fan of grabbing it on free-hand or unarmed builds primarily to boost your own survivability while being able to put out competitive healing if you need to. The basic pitch is:>Medic's circumstance bonus to healing means that the Assurance DC actually outheals an on-level single action Heal for most of the game.>The ability to ignore Battle Medicine's immunity once per hour, combined with Robust Health or Godless Healing, means that you effectively have access to a two-action Heal on yourself once per hour by using Battle Medicine twice in a row. How often you can use this on allies depends on whether they've got the relevant feat or not, but you've at least got one single-action heal locked and loaded for each of them at the beginning of the adventuring day and a rolling one-hour cooldown on top of that (which you can double up in the same way for a two-action heal).>Doctor's Visitation allows you to heal yourself while striding towards an opponent (or ally), effectively removing the heal's action cost.>Additionally, these heals operate on their own cooldowns, which means they don't cut into your focus points or spell slots.I played an Animal Instinct barbarian with Medic and that guy was impossible to kill. It's good enough that I think it's worth seriously considering for basically every build with a free hand.
>>943498951e and 2e are ultimately entirely different systems with entirely different design ideas. If you are deadset on keeping with the 3.5e ideas and mentality and have no love for the modern ideas of streamlining, balance, and more approachable systems, there's not going to be a point in learning 2e. You would genuinely do better just finding a new group then trying to exhaust yourself learning a game that has NOTHING for you.t. 2efag.Still, a QRD on major changes include>Harder focus on feats while attempting to make less feat taxes for basic concepts (mileage may vary on how successful this has been...)>Reworked d20 check system, focusing on beating things by 10 or more to improve the degree of success.>Tighter range of bonuses and penalties, rare you would see anything +/- 4 points. A +1 or +2 are far more potent thanks to the above d20 success rules.>Harder role and niche protection between classes. Classes aren't made with expectations around spellcasting or easy damage nearly as often. Spellcasters can't really be martials and martials can't really be spellcasters, not without heavy workarounds or taking a hit in their longterm progression (see: Magus/Summoner/Warpriest).>More open Archetype system that lets more classes access more specialized ideas and opportunities. You can be a Bard that is a Hellknight or an Animal Companion-Hosting Investigator, for example.>Weaker, more specialized spellcasting all around. Everyone can scale magic up to 9th/10th-level slots, but the power, potency, and conflict resolution mechanics of magic are all less dominant and more focused on crowd control and support. There aren't many easy ways of maximizing spells damage and power output.>Stronger GM support with easier monster, encounter, item, and wealth creation and progression tools.>Heavy focus on teamwork and tactics. If a character isn't "shining", it is likely that they are meant to be more part of a cohesive whole and you aren't playing that well.
>>94350024Couple more differences include>Reworked racial rules, they don't frontload their major features as often, turning many of them into feats you gain throughout your career. You can now mix-and-match any 2 races' lists, and there are special subraces you can combine with any race (tieflings, aasimar, planetouched elementals, beastkin/lycans, all that jazz). Flying and Large races do take a hit in effectiveness thanks to this, though, don't expect to be doing drive-by shooting flights at Level 1.>The 3 Action System is the biggest one, every ability in the game is broken down to 3 generic actions, free actions, and a reaction. Many abilities have set costs in actions, with others have varying effects depending on how much you want to invest in actions. This includes moving, letting you double or triple your move speed in one turn, but also means it is an opportunity cost that takes away potential options.>BAB is inverted, everyone can use their 3 actions to swing mutiple times at the start but they take a stacking -5 penalty, up to -10. Decreasing or working around the Multiple Attack Penalty is a core aspect of martial combat.>Attacks of Opportunity/Reactive Strikes are rarer between PCs and NPCs. This lets more mobility in combat, but also makes it tougher to hold a line.>OGL/D&D references have been removed big time. Many old spells been renamed, alignment is no more, the Pathfinder brand is in the forefront.>More gamey, simpler rules for niche situations. Mounted combat, minion customization and command, summoning, grappling, many different high-investment builds have been made more balanced and easier, at the expense of simulationism.Again, 2e is a very different game with different expectations and a different audience. If ANYTHING sounds appealing, I do say give it a shot. But if nothing sounds worth it or goes against your principles, don't worry your head. There's still plenty of 1e games going about and you aren't alone in feeling left out.
>>94349895I was going to have my own response but I largely agree with >>94350024 's list and what he's saying.I will say that Paizo does prefer balanced mechanics over simulation, leading to some double-standards that don't make sense (player undead not being immune to poison/disease while npc undead are, as an example).The system isn't entirely perfect, but I don't think any system is.
>>94349895PF2e absolutely slams the brakes on player power limits. You cannot break out of the expected difficulty curve alone. For a single character, enemies that are supposed to be dangerous WILL be dangerous (unless you counter them in some specific way, of course). If you think you've found a way to build a character that escapes the intended power curve, there's a 99.999% chance you are misunderstanding the rules.You cannot build a character to focus on a single thing and succeed at that thing vastly more than a similar type of character who didn't build for that single thing. The numbers each class has are fairly set in stone, and there's not very much you can do to change that.The feats you choose when making a character are about deciding where you want to focus your breadth of action to deal with different situations. The fun of building a character in 2e is about choosing to focus on a few different situations that you can perform well in; switching up your tactics usage mid-combat.The entire game has shifted away from character power being in planning and executing a build, and into planning and executing your actions in combat. It's definitely streamlined, but I don't think it's more simplistic. The game just has a much higher focus on choosing the right actions in combat.A lot of this has to do with the 3 action economy, the +10/-10 crit system, and the way that bonuses and penalties have almost entirely been sorted into 3 categories that do not stack with themselves.Instead of having different types of actions with their own unique uses, and a difficulty of trading one for the other, the system of having 3 equal actions means that every action you take has the opportunity cost of every other action you could have taken. Action efficiency becomes key.However, it's absolutely possible to break out of the intended power-curve when you are taking an entire party into account. Teamwork is massively important.
>>94350139>player undead not being immune to poison/disease while npc undead are, as an exampleThat does come with a funny caveat in that the game does suggest a variant rule where you give PCs the full Undead package. Immunity to poison and disease and all that jazz, but also becoming instantly destroyed with no chance of recovery at 0 HP.It's a level of cattiness I can't help but respect.
>>94349959Here is an example context.For Abomination Vaults, as a backup character for when my first one dies, I am considering a free archetype plant summoner with a focus on a grab+trip eidolon who wants to tank. The plan is to dump charisma, take Medic and maybe Robust / Godless Healing, then branch into the wood kineticist archetype for Timber Sentinel. Melee range healing works out okay for this because, between the eidolon and summoner, I can heal one to heal the other.Assuming I have Heal for one of my primary spells known, is this sufficient to be a main healer on top of tanking? Or would this be better as a "secondary" healer, while someone else takes over the primary healing duty?
>>94350156I guess Archives of Nethys made that bit really hard to find, lol.Having read it, it's nice that they explained the logic behind that decision and how to reverse it.Now if only they'd done that for the Construct races...
>>94350193Just to explain my reasoning here, I was the guy talking about how I don't really see a need for a "primary" and "secondary" healer, and instead prefer just a smattering of combat healing on at least two people. This is just based on my experience but, even if I have access to healing, I'm generally not actually using it most fights, and this isn't the kind of game where topping someone off in combat is a priority. If I'm healing someone it's because they're in the red and the fight's still not decided yet, otherwise I'm prioritizing killing bad guys. So, with that in mind, I think you're pretty loaded. I'd be tempted to call it overkill. Just having access to on-level Heal spells is pretty baller already, since Heal's the king of combat healing (and by far the best way to deal with the "oh shit the party just ate an APL+4 fireball and everyone's on fire" situation). Medic on top of that is just gravy. I'm imagining you using Battle Medicine as your "go-to" heals and keeping Heal in your back pocket as a panic button, which sounds like plenty of healing to me. Medic as a way to healing-battery your eidolon from range is pretty cute too.As much as I shy away from the "primary" healer title, you'll have a lot of it, that's for sure. As long as the party has some way to get you back on your feet if you eat shit (that's the importance of the second guy I mentioned in that last post) I think you're totally fine.
>>94350103>mounted combat>more balanced
Two things for you today /pgg/ies! I have been on a multi-year hiatus from Pathfinder and I have decided to come back and look at it again for laughs!>Pathfinder 1e>But you can't play any core classes at all>That includes the Unchained versions of core classes>Everything else is good to go.I am revisiting this idea on a lark because I think it would be funny. Like what would actually break if you did this? Probably nothing but even then what cool and interesting party combinations thus arise from these restrictions?Second thing!What are the actually, unequivocally GOOD ideas in PF2e? The ones that were executed best? I think I like the notion of having four or so spell lists for casters to be sorted into. More maintainable and helps identify what a caster can do mo' betta'. Especially when it's possible for casters to choose their spell list, like Witch and Sorcerer. Only thing that annoys me about it is that I still, for some reason, can't play an Int-focused Wizard type who uses divine spells because he's a smart member of the clergy. >Inb4 "muh smart irreligious people."
>>94350495>Only thing that annoys me about it is that I still, for some reason, can't play an Int-focused Wizard type who uses divine spells because he's a smart member of the clergy.You're looking for a Faith's Flamekeeper Witch.
>>94350672Yeah I meant to say it annoyed me the option didn't exist in many 3.x style games, and f it did it was totally cracked.I wish there was a 3.x style game with the flexibility in building casters and casting styles that Spheres of Power had though. There's a lot of oddball casters I'd enjoy playing if only they had actual support to play.
>>94337389So it doesn't still work like Wild Shape then?That fucking sucks, thanks man.What is with the captcha right now, I had to wait four hours to get this in.
>>94350495>How broken is this going to be?Unless you allow VMC, a single Campaign Trait or take the odd archetype, I think you're kind of fucked for reliable trapbreaking.
>>94350156Can't you take Die Hard to loophole the Destroyed thing if you're undead?
>>94350845But anon, that would be extremely funny if nobody knew how to handle traps! I might just disallowed all of those things and then never spring a single trap on my players just to keep them on their toes!
>>94350845Can't slayers take a single talent to get Trapfinding?
>>94350854No cause Diehard only works with the Dying rules. It doesn't work if you would just skip it. The same applies if you were to drop from a Death effect, you just get evaporated.
>>94350889They can and Investigators straight-up get Trapfinding.
>>94350495see>>94350024>>94350103
>>94350495>1eLosing 4 full caster, with 3 of them being prepared casters, will definitely have an effect. You'll end up with the Shaman, Witch, Psychic, Oracle, and Arcanist. Interestingly they all have separate spell lists so you'd get more distiction between full casters. All the people wanting the batman wizard playstyle would probably gravitate towards Shaman since it has the highest versatility, and Arcanists would see a big rise in popularity for them being the only access to the Wiz/Sorc spell list. The fighter players would likely end up as Slayers or Warpriests to get their bonus feats. And the CHA cheese stackers would do a 180 on their alignment to qualify for Antipaladin.
>>94349895>ChargenA big change is all of your feats and features being siloed into separate groups - every odd level you get a "general feat" (usually minor stat boosts, like getting a weapon proficiency or something like Iron Will or Lightning Reflexes or Toughness or Fleet) or an "ancestry feat" (something mid-tier you get from your race, making races less... front-loaded), and every even level you get a Class Feat (something strong and useful in combat) and a Skill Feat (something niche and usually non-combat related), and these are generally separate, so you don't generally get to build towards skills or towards combat, everyone gets skills and everyone gets combat. Also the feats have pretty granular level requirements - every even level gives you access to a new set of more powerful class feats that you couldn't access before. I find this makes the higher levels fun because in 1e I found past level ~13 I've kind of gotten all of the *good* feats already so I'll just be picking up the feats that weren't good enough for me to take before.So there's a certain streamlining to the chargen process where it's all neatly organised into different boxes like how the archetype system is kind of very clean, without snipping out specific bits of a class, but I wouldn't consider it streamlined in the way that 5e since there are so many damn feats you're getting.>CombatWaaaaaay better, IMO. The action system just opens it up massively. The +/- 10 crit system adds another big layer. It feels like you have a lot more decision-making to do during the game itself; I always felt like in pf1e you decided what you would do in combat months earlier in chargen or your last level-up and just did that every combat with how heavily specialised things like manuevers were, how much full attacks discouraged mobility, and with how so many combat feats simply added riders on top of your full attack instead of giving you choices to make during battle.
>>94350495>What are the actually, unequivocally GOOD ideas in PF2e?3 actionsdegrees of successseparated non-fungible general/class/skill featsGranular level-requirements on featsSeparating property/potency enchantments on weapons rather than having +1's and flamings compete for resourcesArchetypes swapping out class feats.They're all hampered a bit in execution just due to paizo balance being so overbearing. But the bones are impeccable.
>>94350193>>94350396Have you considered chirugeon alchemist? They can throw versatile vials at other party members to heal them, though the range is limited to 20 feet.
>>94349895Assuming familiarity with both systems, personally I findPF1e>More entertaining chargen and attractive magic items>PCs can be good alone, and utterly insane when actually working together>novelty of its absurdity can be fun if you can trust your group to not be assholes>way more flexibility to homebrew and houserule (because the core is fucked and you're not likely to break anything more than a crb Wizard or Paladin already can)>Oracle and Alchemist are cool and flexible>>94350495PF2e>any thought remotely put into keeping its math or class balance even semi consistent means less stressing about someone falling super behind or becoming game warping (even if this results in tons of shit being giga lame)>by that token, GMing is just much easier because encounter calculators and other tools actually fucking work at all>way higher emphasis on team play interactions>fundamentally interesting action economy, even if individual actions are often scuffed>actively being supported and SF2e compatibility, so new content and errata still to come>kineticist is actually good now
>>94353881paladin can break PF1e?
>>94353881My god, her boobies are so big, I love it.>Kineticist is good nowI'm sold. PF2e is now peak. I am the one fan of Kineticist, Shaman and Medium and I am finally being served.
>>94353966>paladin can break PF1e?While Wizard breaks the narrative and has an infinite theoretical power ceiling, practically speaking every time there's a straight fight against a standard AP boss, Paladin will just walk up and press two buttons to eviscerate it. I'm sure you can build things more broken, but Paladin is brainlessly easy to make incredible if you're playing a "standard" campaign of good guys fighting evil.
>>94354107You mean there's something besides Smite Evil? Or is it just Smite Evil + Full Attack?
>>94354121Smite Evil + Full Attack is the ticket, sprinkle on any buffs the Paladin casts beforehand
>>94354121That plus the fact they're just kind of a brick of huge saves+self healing. The only particular weakness Paladin really has as a martial is if they wear armor they might be slow, dogshit skills (two things usually bandaided by common houserules, or tables that don't put much emphasis on it) and people being assholes about the code (which just means you don't play a Paladin if the table is determined to be shitheads about it)
>>94353881>way more flexibility to homebrew and houserule (because the core is fucked and you're not likely to break anything more than a crb Wizard or Paladin already can)Honestly I feel like pf2e's baseline of balance makes it more forgiving of you having slightly scuffed or janky homebrew. It's a sturdy foundation - feels like redditors act like the game being balanced makes it like a fragile jenga tower where a single brick out of place causes the whole delicate thing to come tumbling down, but I think it's not delicate at all, it's like a big heavy pyramid. It's bottom-heavy. You can push it more one way or the other without it tipping over.
>>94354257Yea, in hindsight that point is at best half true now that the system has been out half a decade. The PF2e group I'm in has been pretty liberal with optional and house rules, and often discuss things we're thinking of changing, and it's massively improved all our enjoyment of the game. It's mostly just that trying to discuss and get outside opinions on those houserules (just for sake of checking our work) has historically been absolutely fucking miserable.
If I wanted to play Harry Dresden from the Dresden Files in Pathfinder 2e, what permutation of class and multiclass archetype between Thaumaturge, Investigator, Witch and Wizard would I look at for each of the following three categories?>Most optimal>Most thematic>Most funI figure you can make the case he fits into all four of those classes at various points in his career. He's a magician and an investigator who uses magical items and ends up patronized by multiple important magical beings.
LMAO lances suck in PF2e. You can use them one-handed while on horseback, but then the damage die is reduced to d6 FOR NO FUCKING REASON. Also, the Reach trait is useless since all weapons have a minimum of 10ft reach on horseback.
>>94355935>all weapons have 10 ft reach on horsebacksauce?
>>94355935it's deadly d8 and you gain a circumstance bonus as long as you moved at least 10 feetthe circumstance bonus is equivalent to increasing the die size on average.If you're gonna be mounted a lot, it's a good weapon especially since you can use a shield, also jousting's trait description says if you dismount you can grasp with 2 hands as part of dismounting
>>94355935>all weapons have 10 ft reach on horseback LMAOnot anymore with the remaster buddy
>>94355565Neat, a Stjepan Sejic book.
>>94356147>On a Large or Huge mount, you can attack any square adjacent to the mount if you have 5- or 10-foot reach, or any square within 10 feet of the mount (including diagonally) if you have 15-foot reach. Use the adjusted reach for determining flanking and other rules that depend on reach
>>94356147>>94356356There it is, having reach is USELESS on horseback
>>94356365Unless you are a small creature on a medium mount.>On a Medium or smaller mount, use the normal reach of an attackThen you actually have better range.https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2434
>>94356374Yes, which makes it even worse.
>2eHow does a non-cleric prepared spellcaster deal with condition removal spells?>counteract rules demand spells be heightened to the highest rank>need to prepare enough removal for the entire party; remastered versions are still single target when heightened>on a failure, spontaneous casters can just try again with a new slot, but prepared casters can'tWhat's the correct play? I see the Blessed One archetype and its Mercy feat line can help, but they cost a ton of feats, use Charisma for the counteract check, and the Blessed Spell still uses your own high rank spell slot.
>>94356428Simple, buy scrolls.The Greater Staff of Healing can also help you out here, depending on your level.
>>94356452>buy at-level scrollsAnd this doesn't become prohibitively expensive?>staffThese can't be heightened, right?
>>94355565I actually think I've settled on either Thaumaturge/Sorcerer or Investigator/Wizard for a PF2E Harry Dresden.
>>94356461>And this doesn't become prohibitively expensive?It can be but just buy them little at a time or do some longterm crafting to make it cheaper. It also good to remember you only need to be one level below the effect to counteract it, it doesn't have to match (3 if you wanna luck-shit a crit). You can also try your hand at making Sinew-Shock, Vaccines, and Antiplague Elixirs with Herbalist or Alchemist MC.
>>94356514I was hoping for some sort of spell preparation strategy to overcome this problem, but now my impression is that prepared spellcasting is just bad at this. I understand prepared spellcasting reactively is necessarily weaker, but isn't condition removal too critical to fall under that balancing umbrella?Medicine and the Medic archetype covers the weaker effects, but the really dangerous stuff is only removed by spells and similar effects.
>>94356428Prepare them and cast them as soon as possible.Something worth noting is that conditions and afflictions are intended as another layer of attrition.You are not meant to continue exploring while affected by drained 3, stupefied 1, because they will cause TPKs.I've seen it happen.
>>94356662Prepared spellcasting is another of those things they should have gotten rid of, especially of the kind that the Int classes use. The actual solution is to wait until the next day, not scrolls or any other items because of the nature of counteract checks. Break Curse, for example, is a 7th level feat and lets you just make a counteract check after 8 hours. So, it takes a whole adventuring day, same as if you needed to prepare some spell you didn't have prepared. Spontaneous casting just has an outsized benefit they either didn't account for or just ignored in these cases.
I have been playing and GMing Starfinder 2e battles lately.Some were 3rd-level. An operative's Hair Trigger is just a weak ping, solarians lack Reactive Strike, and we did not bother with melee soldiers (poor mobility, poor flight options, no Shot on the Run).Some were with the 5th-level iconics, which are not that optimized.Then there are the 8th-level parties. These parties are midway into 8th, which means they have 8th-level items, including modules and loudeners. An operative's Hair Trigger has high accuracy and high damage, and feats like Always Ready and Switch Target make it more likely to trigger. A soldier's Overwatch is nowhere as accurate as Hair Trigger, but it can be a significant sanction regardless, and a bombard soldier can easily apply suppressed. A reach solarian with a Photon Crystal is not exactly a fighter or barbarian in terms of attack efficacy, but their Reactive Strike is still nothing to scoff at. In a "ranged meta," I have seen these reactions trigger a lot. Hypernerves help, but are not necessary.For example, I played through two workdays with an 8th-level party: envoy, rhythm/healing mystic, rifle operative, radiant reach solarian. We had no Hero Points, and the only pre-buffs were hours-long. The first workday's XP budgets were 140, 160, 160, 160. The second workday's XP budgets were 135, 120, 160, 160. Environments favored the enemies. We cleared these battles without much trouble (except for four void sharks in zero-g), and with minimal resource expenditure. I owe these victories primarily to the operative and their Hair Trigger, and, secondarily, to the solarian's reach Reactive Strike. Of course, I would much rather have a fighter or barbarian's Reactive Strike, but the solarian's is still decent.Also, I find it a little weird that Area Fire just does not provoke at all. Pull the trigger on a machine gun once, eat reactions. Hold down the trigger, no reactions. Wind up one's arm and lob a grenade, no reactions.
>>94357249Fuck off, Edna.
(pf2e) tell me about the alchemist archetype, how do you optimally use its features as a thief rogue? Poison is out cause you dont get poisoner scaling dc, bomb splash dont trigger sneak attack and elixirs are a bit lame. So do i focus on mutagen or...?
>>94357463You do get scaling with a 12th level archetype feat Alchemical Power, on all DCs.So everything is on the table.Just because you don't apply sneak attack to splash doesn't mean you don't apply sneak attack on a strike with a bomb.The optimal way is probably using your quick vials for exploration benefits like darkvision and movement from elixirs, or for emergency healing.You could use mutagens to improve your lower saves against enemies that check them constantly like wights and drain life.
>>94356149The issue is reach is a part of the budget and is useless on Medium-ancestry mounted builds. Katana is deadly d8, and gets to be d10 2h/d6 1h, and gets versatile P on top. Lance, completely unintuitively, is only better than katana in such a case when DISmounted.>>94356155It wasn't true pre-remaster either. The rule has always been that the reach trait is nullified on Large+ mounts, not that all weapons are uplifted to have reach. Legacy AoN shows this, and there are threads on it going back a few years.>>94356365Well, sure, but you (or the topic OP, if you're not him) still had it completely backwards in the first post.More generally, I'd like to remind everyone that Michael Sayre, current lead rules wonk, is on the record defending this mechanic, because if you could get reach on a Large chassis it would be "encounter-breaking" in those all-too-common climbing- and flight-based encounters where enemies are exactly 15ft off the ground.https://paizo . com/threads/rzs43kp0?Sad-Lance-Noises#29Completely unrelated, Large ancestries now exist and work completely normally with reach weapons. I do not know if Sayre has weighed in since then, much like I do not know if he's weighed in on his stance against community-suggested changes to Disarm that ultimately ended up in the remaster.
>>94357533You do not hate Paizo devs enough.
>>94350024I will push back on the niche protection comment. Paizo seems to love allowing certain martial classes (Fighter & Rogue) being able to steal other classes niche and somewhat performing them better or martial classes in general getting far more from archetyping into a caster than the other way round. Lastly the only niche that intelligence based characters have (Recall Knowledge) are done better by charisma classes.
>>94357533Honestly, the best thing Sayre could do at this point is shut up or maybe just the designers in general as Mark Seifter has also dropped some retarded reasons for design decisions. It sometimes feels like the designers of 2e stumbled over the core engine of the system by mistake and just slapped their bad ideas on top of it.
>>94357921Niche classes in a game about constructing a broadly capable synergistic team is a dichotomy unfortunately.You actually don't want niche protection at all. It is a bad concept.It is an anti-fun sacred cow.
>>94357984Im not commenting for or against. Im shitting on Paizo for having hypocritical game design. They will watch content like a hawk to make sure the Fighters feeling aren't getting hurt while at the same type allowing a single caster dedication access to scrolls, wands & staves.
>>94358113Yeah well, Paizo had the opportunity to slaughter every last dnd cow left over from 3.5 when going to 2nd edition, and declined to kill most of them for what I can only assume are marketing reasons.The business model has always been to siphon off of the dragon game, so your product necessarily needs to resemble it or you jeopardize the bottom line.So there's this odd pushpull going on where some features and classes are protected and then other subsystems are allowed to do as they please.Though I think the ogl fiasco and resultantly, the mass slaughter of cows in remaster vis spell schools, alignment, ability scores, reflects a change of attitude.Another factor is its designed by committee and people like Mark Seifter have been on record saying Paizo collectively are slow and hesitant when it comes to this stuff.He originally pitched that swash should get the free skill advancement but it was declined. Then player core 2 gets printed and low and behold there it is.
>>94358160The killing of spell schools without any sort of trait replacement was one of the most retarded design decisions I've seen in a long time. Now magic is just a fucking soup with the only way to sort through them being tradition lists or what small amount of traits Paizo gave them.>Mark Seifter have been on record saying Paizo collectively are slow and hesitant when it comes to this stuff. He originally pitched that swash should get the free skill advancement but it was declined.Again this just makes me feel that the designers just fucking stumbled the core engine of the system and built upon it was bad ideas. Mark Seifter seemed to be the best designer of the bunch and even he had some really bad math based decisions on the game.
>>94358268Spells schools are a cow.Magic is a soup.The traits are adequate.I really don't want to go back to calling slow a transmutation spell when it's also arguably enchantment, evocation, and hypothetically abjuration since you could use it to counteract haste with clever counterspell.None of that please.No one misses any of it in any fashion they can describe. It's just a cow shaped hole.
>>94358304Brainlet take.Having a more thorough trait system for spells would make it easier to design round them. Instead of the wizard having a limited list of school spells, they could of given them access to all spells with a certain trait.Give spells like Slow and Haste the "Time" trait and now you can easily make a time wizard school without taking up page space with a shit list. You could expand this out to the design of other spellcasters and deity domains. i dont care that you dont like spell schools anon, i care that they didn't replace it with anything and just made spellcasting QoL worse because the designers are lazy fucks.
>>94358375>wizardOh you're one of those guys who can't handle being forced to prepare rank 1 force barrage.No who fucking cares about yet another cow class. I don't.It's the most pedantic myopic shit I can imagine except dice envy.Though it seems to fill the minds of players without limit.The book literally says if these schools don't fellate you you're allowed to concoct your own with shithot evergreens so you don't feel bad about being unable to leverage a quarter of your rank 1 slots, which by the way will never be utilized anyway due to the hideous action economy.The whole bitter heap is myopic nonsense brought about by resource anxiety over the the very least, the very bottom of your resources. It is a magical penny glued to the floor.Anyway in summation who fucking cares. Glad it's gone.
>>94358404>Says how a more thorough trait system would help sort spells and allow for easier design with spellcasting classes as a whole but using wizard as a prominent example.>Anon starts sperging out about Wizards & Cows.Im going to stop engaging with your retarded ramblings now.
>>94358427I stopped reading your post once I read the word wizard too so that's fair.
>>94358432Oh shit, am i talking to The Fighterfag? The fact that your sperging out with the mere mention of the wizard class is the giveaway. Would it of triggered you less if i approached it from an Oracle standpoint? Instead of giving you 3 random spells from a god, you get access to a trait connected to your mystery ala Time for the Time mystery.
>>94358452You don't do this with traits you do this with the mystery entry itself.Which is what player core 2 did.Go read it, its on AON as of today.And I am almost sorry but wizard and oracle crying is peak reddit and I fucking hate those stupid niggers.I am not fighterfag, because fighterfag isn't a single poster.And I think people have accused fighterfag of being female and I am assuredly not.
>>94357533>Well, sure, but you (or the topic OP, if you're not him) still had it completely backwards in the first post.No, what i meant by "all weapons get 10ft reach" is that they get 10ft reach relative to the center of the horse, which is correct. Having 5ft reach beyond the horse's token is equivalent to having 10ft reach from its center.>Michael Sayre, current lead rules wonk, is on the record defending this mechanic, because if you could get reach on a Large chassis it would be "encounter-breaking"And that's the main problem with PF2e. The designers were so worried about creating a balanced game that they forgot to create rules that MAKE SENSE. Yes, fighting on horseback should give me a MASSIVE advantage over unmounted components, because that's how it works in real life. Also, it's not actually unbalanced since warhorses aren't for free, need a lot of grain and water (which must be carried around), may bolt in fear after hearing a sudden noise, etc. But of course, none of those rules are implemented in PF2e, because they weren't worried about simulating a medieval fantasy world, they were worried about creating a balanced game. AD&D 2e is a good example of a game that perfectly implements mounted combat
>>94358682unmounted opponents*
First time playing PF2E.I'm going to play a croc (awakaned animal) who believes he is a certain high society detective but doesn't remember much else (level 4 investiGator).what am I in for?
>>94358705I actually pathbuildered this as a joke.Same thing with a mastermind rogue awakened penguin with a gun.It should be fun. Instruction to GMs for awakened animals is to just have NPCs roll their eyes and say>A talking aligator? Now I've seen everythingand then treat you like any other human.
>>94358713Yay! Lizardfolk are not uncommon in the area so my guy might be mistaken for that.I should mention I named my character Detective Raphaël Ambrosius Costeau
>>94358452you are 100% and that anon is a faggot, spells need a better trait system. illusions for some reason get a trait, but nothing else does? a spell that summons a zombie and one that conjures a spectral apparition have nothing in common? and curriculums suck ass, wizards should instead pick a trait out of a list and gain a flat always-on bonus to those spells so they truly are the fighter of casters like redditors say they are>>94358480if you rage so much at anyone slightly disagreeing with paizo taking the soul out of the product you should go back
>>94359789Traits are for rules interactions, they're not there so you can play fucking uno.
>>94358682>because they weren't worried about simulating a medieval fantasy world, they were worried about creating a balanced gameThis is no secret. In the triangle of simulationism, narrative, and gaminess, they fell on the side of gaminess. They aren't trying to completely ignore it, but they understand the market and what has to be sacrificed for the sake of it. When you can easily get a mount and the training to keep it from bolting from Level 2, it's difficult to argue you should have a massive advantage against most foes. And that's just the balance perspective, how many people want to deal with things like Lance Breaking rules?It's arguable that Paizo was ever into simulationism, so much as the fact that 3.X is a simulationist system. Did they really added MORE complicated rules on that system, added onto the simulationist nature? Or were most of their addition mostly gamey.>>94359789I do kind of understand that tags shouldn't JUST be used as descriptions and categories, they should have an actual use case. Spell Schools always did have a problem of...not meaning anything, and just renaming them doesn't resolve that. Conjuration can probably mean something, but Evocation? Abjuration? It's why the Illusion trait stayed, that actually does mean a lot and it hosts the entire mechanic in its description.Sttilllll...it doesn't defend how FUCKED the Curriculum system is. They really needed a way for non-GMs to add spells onto the lists; if not just scrap the entire thing, put more emphasis on the Arcane Thesis as your subclass, and just make them 4-slot casters.
>>94359831>I do kind of understand that tags shouldn't JUST be used as descriptions and categories, they should have an actual use case.no, since elemental traits exist (and a few non elemental ones like plant [???], emotion, spirit etc, basically defining the kind of stuff that is manipulated by the spell) this argument makes no sense. adding traits like "time" and "space" fits perfectly in the system. saying that they have no mechanical purpose is meaningless because they WOULD have a mechanical purpose if they existed, just like there are several things that interact with the ones that do exist.
>>94358480That's not how the oracle works at all. You get 3 spells..... big fucking whoop. You know what would be better? Access to all current and future spells that have the time trait and again your not spending valuable page space writing up lists for every class that gets thematic bonus spells.I'm not crying about wizard or oracle, I'm calling Paizo lazy fucks for removing a way to sort spells and not replacing it thus making the whole game worse. Learn to read you dumb cunt.
Well fuck you, I'M bitching about Wizards.Wizards can still only pull off one flavor, which is why they bore me.I'm probably still going to play one at some point. But fuck, man, what if I want wizard mechanics without being a scholar?
>>94360036it's fighterfag, a redditor who's here only because he doesn't get to call wizard players niggers back there
>>94359831>I do kind of understand that tags shouldn't JUST be used as descriptions and categories.The game already does this? Im asking for an expansion of it so every spell can be easily sorted into at least 1 trait category. Several other games do this and it works really well. Paizo's design staff are apparently a bunch of apes who cant fathom game concepts outside of their bubble.
>>94360064>what if I want wizard mechanics without being a scholar?anon most casters have basically identical mechanics (because their main one is "i can cast from this generic list").........
>>94360091>anon i am a retard who is incapable of comprehending nuanceunderstood.
>>94359831I will stay say Paizo will try to pull off ridiculously gamey rules shit that would make me go "who the fuck wrote this" even if i was playing a Final Fantasy game on my PSX.
>>94360080are you implying that a spell that summons a zombie and one that conjures a ghostly apparition should have something in common? ok chud munckin 5e player casterfag
>>94360064Look at inventors before complaining about how restricted is the flavour of a class
>>94360134It's the same restriction.
>>94360119I never said that at all?
>>94360142At least you can roleplay a wizard in a variety of ways, inventors are all le crazy explosive unreliable goblin machine xd
>>94360146you said that you want spells to have more traits, this is the same as wanting spell schools back exactly as they were which is haram because John Paizo (pbuh) decided otherwise
>>94360134Inventor has alot more wrong with it than that anon. It is without hyperbole the worst constructed class in the game by a large margin.
>>94360015All these traits not only have physical/metaphysical meanings, they all have additional uses then just being a descriptor that more than one system use. Counterspelling/counteracting, immunities and weaknesses, interactions, tangible reasons players can use. It's why a Time and Space trait isn't in, what do you interact with? Maybe you can argue Time, but space is literally the LACK of something, and not in the funky "Cold is just the lack of heat" way. (Plant is a trait because there are literal beings made out of the green stuff, mind you).It isn't that there aren't traits that JUST describe itself, it is more that it is redundant to have a trait that says what the spell's job is. If you have Fireball, and all it does is big damage, do you really need the "Big Damage" tag to exist?>>94360080Most spells already have a trait that can be looked up quickly. There are very few spells that are just Concentrate/Manipulate and that's all.It's not that I personally mind redundancy in trait descriptors. I just know that the spell schools weren't great at doing such (what IS an Abjuration? How is Wall of Stone Conjuration and not Abjuration?). Maybe there can be one more trait, but there are very few I would argue wouldn't JUST be for Wizards; peace of mind.>>94360119This stupid false equivalence genuinely made me forgot that there is already a Summon trait still in the game. So...there you go.
>>94360152>you can roleplay a wizard in a variety of waysNo, you fucking can't, that's my whole complaint.No matter what feat/subclass choices you make you cannot escape "I am le redditor smart guy who reads lots of books."None of the subclasses or schools really change this, not even Unified Theory. All your feats use Big Smart Guy words or refer to how smart you are. Anything you pick just makes you Ezren.Compare that to another class; while Sorcerer's power always comes from within, there's nuance to how much they like or dislike their power, how naturally it comes to them or if they struggle with it- there's interesting (if not particularly novel on their own) stories to tell just from that, while wizard constantly bombards you with flavor of "You aren't just *a* wizard, you are *the* wizard."
>>94360219I would like to play a perverted and unethical wizard who uses his spells for profit and to stroke his ego. Also new and interesting methods of wizard sex. Can I do that in PF2e?
>>94360171>Counterspelling/counteracting, immunities and weaknesses, interactions, tangible reasons players can useit's useless for you to waste digital ink on this drivel because i already tackled this argument in the post you are replying to>but space is literally the LACK of something, and not in the funky "Cold is just the lack of heat" way.1. what the fuck does this even mean. you interact with space in the same way you interact with cold or emotions, it's literally magic2. the word i wrote just now for a quick example not being the best candidate for a trait doesn't have any value as an argument in this discussion. try using some more abstracted thinking c'mon.
>>94360245no.
>>94360171>Most spells already have a trait that can be looked up quickly.But a sizeable amount only have C&M which puts them in a theme less limbo. Im not arguing for spell schools back but i want subsets of spells with the same theming to have a trait that connects them because it allows an expansion in design space that can be used for feats and features.
>>94360219Some classes are purposely designed around being in a set theme. Especially with Paizo, they love to make class fantasies first and then build a class around it. See Occultist/Thaumaturge. Or even Slayer.Of course the Wizard is going to be the Book Smart Caster. What part of it wasn't going to be such? The biggest example of a non-bookish Wizard would be Gandalf and even then he's more some archsage deal that has everything. You have to do something really outside the grain like 5e's Bladesinger Wizard, and even then Paizo feels like it is better suited to be its own class than some archetype of such.Some ideals will just be dedicated to their own classes.>>94360257>what the fuck does this even mean. you interact with space in the same way you interact with cold or emotions, it's literally magicSpace is literally the absence of anything. You can't be hit with "Space Damage", you can't be hurt by the absence of a concept. It's why the "Space Magic" spells like Moonbeam and Interstellar Void don't hit you with Void damage, void is a real concept of negativity while Space is the absence of anything. It's why the only damaging Domain spell in the Void/Nothingness Domain makes a black hole but still hurts you with slashing damage.>>94360286They do have pretty blatant theming in the name and description a lot of the time. See: Freeze Time.Again, I understand the desire for more categorization tools. Stuff like Fey Eidolon's Fey Gift Spells can't work nearly as well without broad categories to reference to. However, a lot of "searching mechanics" can usually be done in other ways that don't require nearly as much "FIND THE SPELL, MOTHERFUCKER" book work. Hence why I'm not too keen on reverting the Wizard changes and simply renaming spell schools.>>94360245Kind of! Runelord and its Lust Domain did exist and there are remastering that. There's also Love Cathartic Mage.
>>94360171>This stupid false equivalence genuinely made me forgot that there is already a Summon trait still in the game. So...there you go.no you retard. i'm obviously not talking about the summon trait. i'm talking about spells that interact with the dead. kill yourself.
>>94360377>Hence why I'm not too keen on reverting the Wizard changes and simply renaming spell schools.are you going to, like, stop writing walls of text arguing against the voices in your head and engage with what others are saying (here, in this thread, not in some subreddit)?
>>94360219a wizard got the power by studying, if the problem is the flavour you can reflavour the feats too. "oh no i reflavoured my wizard as receiving his powers from a patron but the feats still make references to study, how could this be happening to me??" if the problem is not the flavour but the roleplay based on that flavour... you can still roleplay them in different ways, just with different themes than the sorcerer because the classes gain power in diametrically opposite ways the equivalence you make is dumb because a wizard can have different ways he sees his magic, maybe he sees casting spells as a shitty stressful job he has to do because it's the only thing he knows how to do, or he's an artists seeing the world as his canvas and his spells as his colors etc.
>>94360377>he's still going on about spaceanon i don't care, it was a random example word, it's not important to me
>>94360426I bring it up because it is simply the easiest way of resolving Wizard's remaster issues. It was, if not a top-tier, an incredibly great class solely thanks to how open its 4th spell slot was. And you really can just shave the serial numbers off and easily rename stuff like Evocation to Annihilation or Necromancy to Re-Dead. The thing about category traits is that because they don't do anything or have tangible, they can be anything. That is why Abjuration vs. Conjuration arguments never happened, they didn't mean anything. I'm pretty sure the only reason they didn't just make it a 4-slot caster was because it would make Flexible Spellcaster even more a bad trade-off than it already is. It has to have some degree of restriction to not be penalized.It's so dead simple an answer, I can only really justify them not doing it by way of "it's too easy and doesn't really resolve any power issues with Wizard". There has to be better solutions than that.
>>94360501why are you saying this shit we already know all this. that's literally why we are talking about it.since you seem a bit slow i'll summarize for you our thoughts: we mant more traits, not to divide all spells into seven schools but rather to give each one at least one flavour tag that can be mechanically referenced. right now spells traits vary from "mental, fear, emotion, illusion, visual" to nothing. we obviously agree that spells don't need to be split up the same ay they were with scools, there doesn't need to be any connection between healing and summoning a skeleton.no big restructuring is needed, just adding more traits. the foundations for the system already exist.
Need some help, playing an untamed druid and need some decent long-duration buff/utility spells to populate my spell list with, so far I got ant haul, tailwind, and the ever reliable hastealso would it be worth it to grab barbarian dedication for rage? Rage works while in untamed form but idk if it's worth the -1 to AC
>PF2eI have a question reguarding Step. If I have a 10-foot Step from Tiger Stance, can that Step change direction (like in a L shape)? Or does it need to be all in a straight line? I know the rules don't say you can't, but from the name, a "step" wouldn't make much sense in changing directions
>>94360614Same as striding.You could leave and reenter the same square if you really wanted to.
>>94360588Making a tag whose sole purpose is to be mechanically referenced...is exactly what the spell schools were. That's just filing off the numbers and making seventy of the damn things. It's just bloat and recreating the same problems.
>>94360647>the same problemsWhat were these problems?
>>94360647>Making a tag whose sole purpose is to be mechanically referenced...is exactly what--every trait already is. there are no problems at all.
>>94360647Isn't the major issue the other anon brings up that spell schools are really kind of broad and not descriptive of what exactly they contain? For example, Necromancy containing healing spells, or a lot of direct damage/AoE spells being split between Evocation and Conjuration.Assigning more traits to spells isn't a bad thing if it enables sorting through them more easily. Literally, if all the trait entails is a description of what kind of spell it is and you have class features and feats keying off of those, say, wizards that add all spells with a certain trait to their spell list, what exactly is the problem?
>>94360756The problem is that you are bloating the traits in order to save a single class that doesn't need saving.If you want to do it in a home game about idk planes hopping and say acktually time spells don't work on these planes because time doesn't pass or some gay shit then do it.It doesn't need to be part of the core rules.
>>94360724I think its clear we have 2 different understanding of 'mechanically referenced' here.When I say it, I mean only for the purposes of categorization and searching mechanics. Think how in Yu-Gi-Oh a card's archetype isn't a mechanical concept compared to its traits like Earth, Winged Beast, Link, or Effect. Cards are not made to counter specific archetypes, you wouldn't see "Destroy All Orcust" or "No Blue-Eyes monster can do anything" on a trap card, its just too specific and unfun for everyone. Compared to how they counter traits like Light, Dragon, Normal or Effect.Archetypes in the card's name are what usually searched for with cards. An archetype in modern YGO probably isn't even a real thing without a dedicated searcher for it, to be blunt. The archetype in the card's name like Elemental HERO or Vampire doesn't have mechanical meaning in terms of back-and-forth interactions, but in terms of searching and other stacking effects, i.e. "E-Emergency Call". But to compensate, so many cards are just made for the archetype. Again, an archetype doesn't really exist without a searcher for it, so there's just a lot of searchers for specific archetypes.Spell Schools are basically just that. They don't have back-and-forth interactions, they are solely for searching; for one whole class, one eidolon, and like 4 archetypes tops. Nothing was weak to or strong against Necromancy or Evocation. Making a bunch flavor tags wouldn't mean much without physical/metaphysical meanings, and most of such are already covered. This is why I was so autistic on the space and time tags, cause while Space and Time spells clearly exist, there isn't a way to have real interplay with them in same way Fire spells could. And for archival purposes, the name, tradition, and description kind of already do that.
>>94360841Have you ever been to a booru?
>>94360841>Making a bunch flavor tags wouldn't mean much without physical/metaphysical meaningsno one said the opposite. looks like your post is wrong. condense future responses down to two or three sentences.
>>94360756Also you gotta remember that traits take up page space in both the spell block and the glossary. Bloat is physically costly for developers. So it has to have a lot more meaning than just for the sake of Wizards and Archives of Nethys.Hell, I don't really have a problem with them being broad and non-descript. If every spell was randomly categorized with a number between 1-8 just so Wizard can have its 4-slot fun, I still really wouldn't have a problem. But I am also not a developer. I think there are better ways to handle Wizard than just tag bloat. Not the Curriculum System for sure, but something that keeps the schoolboy flavor of Wizard without sacrificing sane development principles. >>94360870You are trying to say traits have mechanical meanings by themselves, by the fact they are a trait. But again, if that is just the case, you can just assign a random name to any spell and that would do its job in own right. Any name or category can work as flavor. That what the spell schools amounted to. At least they had a cap.Making traits for traits' sake is the definition of bloat.
>>94360811My guy were already in the fucking bloat phase of pf2e. You are just putting out a phantom arguments and hoping it sticks. Having more traits that can be referenced by class options does nothing to bloat the rule system more than it already is.
>>94360949there is nothing insane about this. traits already exist and their functions aren't exclusive to the wizard. in fact, the wizard makes NO use of them besides the illusion trait. looks like you wrote another inaccurate post.
>>94360949You are talking out of your ass. The traits arent going to add anything to page space because that line will already be filled with the basic concentrate and manipulate traits that you can slap any other trait right next to.A couple more lines in a glossary is less space than every spellcaster class and subclass needing bespoke thematic spell lists and features that have to call out specific spells instead of a single trait.I dont know why you are dying on a hill with such awful arguments.
>>94360953You're in your bloat phase you fat retard.
>>94361040Im not the retard arguing against a more comprehensive way to deal with the shitshow that is the spell list with a concept that the game already uses.
>>94358705If I had a nickel for every Investi-Gator I've seen in PF2e I'd probably have a dollar by now
>>94337523And obvious alchemist fix is for items/vials to be based on class/level, not on intelligence.
>>94361371I'll be 100% honest, the two Efficient Alchemy feats should be built into Alchemist's scaling, sure. Having an Int based component to that part doesn't really bother me terribly though.
I'm gonna try running Triumph of the Tusk in the coming weeks, what's a good measure of involvement for NPC allies since a lot of the act 1 encounters have other friendlies.
>>94361417It's not a bother. It's just that it's incorrect. The system no longer has "uses based on ability modifier" anywhere else. Not spell slots, not focus points, not healing font, not rage duration, not a thing.
>>94361716True and it's easy enough to change it to just be scaling the way cleric fontis, but if anything was going to have it still, Alchemist and its fucked up weird unique resource pool feels like exactly the one to do so.
>>94361716I think it is like that because Alchemist would genuinely have no reason to use INT otherwise. That is something of a different issue in its own right, but I agree it sticks out like a sore thumb with how it is now.
>>94362154It wants it for class DC (rarely), and for a few subclass features (barely), but even then it could really stand to have more things keying off Int. That kinda feels like a recurring problem with mental-stat "martials" that aren't named Thaumaturge, though. Like, you'd think Alchemist would actually want crafting for anything? Hell you know what's even weirder is that they never gave it a better class DC, you'd think it'd be the one class in the two Player Cores that had Legendary class DC or something.
>>94362812>Hell you know what's even weirder is that they never gave it a better class DC, you'd think it'd be the one class in the two Player Cores that had Legendary class DC or something.I think that's just a genuine tradeoff to make sure it gets to be the "encounter-based not-caster". It either had to keep really strong item effects or making sure they always had Alchemical gear ready, and I think the big desire for Master Weapons push them towards long term sustain. Something had to give and Legendary Class DC seem to be the one that did.
>>94362986I could accept alchemical items being weaker than spells if the action economy for alchemist didn't blow complete ass for anything but bombs, and its cantrip-likes weren't also still kind of ass.
>>94363026The actual effects are pretty on par or near-par with spells, especially with them having longer durations and Versatile Vials making them all encounter-based. The Bottled Monstrosities are underrated AS FUCK.It really is the action economy that is unfortunately in the way. It's ALMOST an acceptable trade but it isn't quite there, especially with things like poisons (why did they got nerfed??) or mutagens, things more balanced around being used by yourself and not others.Collar of the Shifting Spider is only a good bandage for this, hence why I'm not against a Quick Item Use power for them. Or bring back Mutagenic Flashback and make an equivalent for everyone, since that was a cheap way of re-upping a mutagen.
>>94363071Alchemical items are weird, some seem like insane value, and others I really question. I really can't complain too much about having a steady supply of the good ones at least. Soothing Tonic trivializes short-rest healing, and I'm not even the healing subclass. The action economy and quick vial effects though, man, what the fuck were they cooking, given how much every alchemist subclass kinda wants to dip into other item types at least a little, quick alchemy should really just be a universal "make it and use it as part of the same action", and I might even go as far as to say far lobber should just let me bean my friend upside the head with a numbing tonic mid-fight because if one more person tells me to fuck around with a familiar I'm going to pour an acid flask on them.
>>94357954>It sometimes feels like the designers of 2e stumbled over the core engine of the system by mistake and just slapped their bad ideas on top of it.I mean, that's basically what they did with 1e too.
>alchemical sciences methodology gives you quick alchemy>but no feat for daily prep alchemical items>need to take alchemist archetype (redundant) and then advanced alchemyim so mad holy shit
>>94364333That's what it did in apg.
>>94364386and it sucks!honestly i shouldn't be bothered too much, im on a no FA game so this methodology is the best option considering that
>>94361077the gm was chuffed about it.I wanted to play a skill monkey and a lizardfolk so he suggested it.
>>94364333Really wish there were ways to skip redundant archetype feats.
So I finished up the updated to make version 2, version 3. it contains 12 new archetypes and finishes off the cavalier orders. Just got to reread it, format it and fuse it into the version 2. Let me know if you have any questions. Here is version 2 for the time being.
>>94364333It's not redundant since you can only make elixirs and alchemical tools with the methodology.
>>94363071>why did they got nerfed??I assume it was viewed as a 'trade off' for Toxicologist being able to turn poison damage into acid damage depending on target resistances... but most normal poisons were already bad so I don't even know why you'd bother. Fort is usually a huge pain in the ass to target in the first place because it's rarely ever low.
