They hated guns in Portal Second Age but somehow fallout, a modern zombie TV show, an anime celebrity, and SPONGEBOG SQUAREPANTS are fine??? Fuck WoTC they are raping MtG and trying to suck out every last drop of money they can.
>>94368894Maro can't say shit to shareholders who only see dollar signs. Not that he's free from guilt, but if he spoke up he'd be out of a job.
>>94368894MTG. Money The Grabbening.
MTG is long dead and only exists now to sponge more money from the leftover whales in the most shameless ways possible
>>94368976Even as early as 2016 it was just becoming a cash-milker with little real competitive elements. MaRo still quoted for purposefully making bad cards in eat set.
>>94368947hahaha
>>94368894I have never touched a Magic cardI'm just here because I hate Hasbro.
>>94368894
>>94368943But anon. By crossplattforming they supercharge your play.
>>94368943Maro has always had shit taste and you can tell by what he thinks is and isn't acceptable. The investors want to see money made, yes, but they're not sitting there voting on what cards get created. All the shitty art choices and writing and FIRE design are in house problems that have nothing to do with shareholders. They are all the result of Maro and the other retards actually designing cards in game. "Muh shareholders" is just a smokescreen to take blame off WOTC itself for being major retards.
>>94373730>The investors want to see money made, yes, but they're not sitting there voting on what cards get created. All the shitty art choices and writing and FIRE design are in house problems that have nothing to do with shareholders.Not directly but they do.If shareholders demand that you start producing products with, for arguments sake, "swords", Then you will absolutely see a lot of swords in the products.Shareholders are internal stakeholders, they hold arguably largest amount of sway on decision making.
>>94374026The shareholders that matter are institutional investors, senpai. They send a guy who just asks: "what are your plans to make the line go up?" Alternatively they are >>94371471 those fellas who have grand plans to make all of their brand property spill oodles of Joseph's Technicolour Dream Spaghetti all over the graphs they generated from the revenue reported in their virtual revenue centers.
>>94368894>MtG Hate ThreadAlways a good opportunity to post this
>>94375984Fucking hell, WoTC are such fucking con artists>>94374026Maro probably hates all the cross over bullshit but there's nothing he can do about it. The suits are just as retarded as investors and demand the cross overs to make a quick buck. If they have a good year they have to have an ever better year the next one. Endless growth at any cost even the long term reputation of the brand.
>>94375984lol, It's still funny.
>>94368894To be completely fair, Portal 2nd Age came out in 1998. Twenty-six years is plenty of time to change opinions.The setting of P2A is one of my favorites, incidentally. Almost purely because of nostalgia - it was the set that got me into Magic - but the simplicity of the setting just appeals to me. Plus I really dug that it had guns.
>>94368894Yeah and sets with Pirate or fucking COWBOYS in there didn't have guns?Honestly I might have even liked thunder Junction more if it was a little more on theme. More guns, less hats.And I'm not even a burgerlander saying this.
>>94377098Thunder Junction just needed more time in the oven, it's full of ideas that you could build a cool fantasy setting out of, but the fantasy setting isn't built yet. It's just loony-toons-Arizona with road runners and coyotes. It would be cool if they had followed through on the ambiguous intelligence of cactuspeople, make it so that they're never portrayed using tools or language or sophisticated magic, but also imply that they might bury you up to your neck and feed you to ants. Instead we get a cactus druid and a cactus playing the piano. No follow-through.A lot of their writing is like that, Valgavoth is a cool idea, but nothing is developed properly because all the important shit is being done on an absolute-minimum budget.
>>94377133Drop the set focus on planes, change the set focus to stories. If the story take the Viewer-perspective to a different world? Great. If it stays on the same world for 4+ sets? That's also fine. Could even dare one dream... change worlds mid set. gasp. Different sets could have mechanics based on the story, and events that are making up the story.Lose the giant ensemble of "Main characters" pick 3 characters (yes not even enough for a full color spread) and follow them.
>>94377160I think that could work great, but fundamentally I don't mind theme park planes, I just wish they'd spend more time and more money on writing and visual design before they start designing cards. At the current rate the story is always going to suck no matter what kind of story it is.
>>94377062It's not just changing an opinion but doing a complete back flip the other way. Maro is a hypocrite and a faggot. I suppose magic has changed over the years though, less fantasy and now just another fortnight rip off happy to whore itself out to any IP that pays. It's very sad.P2A was my start with magic too. I remember playing it with my brother at my grandfather's place. I completely misunderstood the rules but I got the general idea. I was never put off by the guns because as far as I knew they'd always been in magic. This card and Angel of Mercy I always thought had really cool artwork.
Why not move on? Find a new game?This kind of seems like stalking your ex after they decided to break up and start dating someone else.
>>94377291Honestly it's kind of like that, yea, I haven't played in 10 years. It's kind of like a spectator sport, except that I don't actually watch or read about actual games of Magic, I just watch what Hasbro does and how fans react because I think it's interesting.
>>94377291I haven't played in a while except for replaying Duel of the Planeswalkers a little while ago. I still own two cubes though but I just can't be bothered organising an event to play them. My friends have just all lost interest in it and that's because WoTC are such goddamn retards and woke cunts. I want to like Magic, I want to see them do better and return to their glory days.
>>94377306Magic is kind of baby-tier in terms of being completely utterly soulless and depraved though. Compare Wizards to something like Blizzard, or really anything Activision has ever touched. And that's just games, hardly comparable to the evil you can find in the film industry, and moving down the scale of evil we can look towards Casinos while still staying just in the Entertainment sphere of evil corporations. What Magic does is kind of just tone deaf greedy misplays thanks to incompetent business school graduates having learned how to get jobs but not how to do them.
>>94377333>I want to like MagicBut Magic doesn't want to like you. Magic was a gold digger, bro; the second she saw someone she thought had more money than you, she was gonna jump dick and never look back.
>>94377389lol yea, I used to follow the video game industry in the same way, but it got to a point where every big-budget game felt like the same linear GTA clone with the same shallow RPG elements and the same minigames, and then it just wasn't interesting. People would get hyped for something and then they'd get an unfinished game with a bunch of day-1 DLC and they'd get mad and then it would happen again. Hasbro is more interesting imo but that's just my opinion, also I still enjoy elements of their stories, even when I'm complaining about their stories being unfinished.
>>94377408Unlike a woman old MtG cards are just as fun now as they were 20 years ago. I can still enjoy old magic while mocking the new stuff.
>>94377133>Thunder Junction just needed more time in the ovenEVERY new plane needs more time in the oven these days. I frickin' hate the current paradigm of only spending a single set on a plane, there's not enough time to develop cohesive mechanics or story or anything.I mess the 1 Big Set/2 Little Set paradigm that existed from Ice Age through to Tarkir.
>>94377470>Unlike a woman old MtG cards are just as fun now as they were 20 years agoYour friends don't seem to think so. They've moved on.You know yourself best though. If you're happy hating, that's just the kind of person you are, but it's a question if that's really a great sort of person to be.
>>94377517I guess you're right, maybe it is time to get my friends together for magic again. Nobody else is going to organise it for me and I'd love to play my Cube of Shame again. Thanks anon.
>>94368943fpbp
>>94368894>anime celebrity???
>>94377565These are official cards...
>>94374026>If shareholders demand that you start producing products with, for arguments sake, "swords", Then you will absolutely see a lot of swords in the products.That would be true if shareholders cared about that, but they literally don't. I don't think most of their investors has ever held a magic card in their hands, let alone know how to play the game.
>>94377573miku is not an anime character, newfag.
>>94377636She doesn't come from an anime but she's still an anime character(/celebrity).
>>94377636You haven't watched Doki Doki Miku Panic?
>>94377758She would be an anime character even if she didn't have an anime, like how every character in Guilty Gear is an anime character, because it's a videogame in the anime genre. Miku is music in the anime genre.
>>94377599You don't have to care to hold sway.You know how your mom thinks video games are "nintendo's" but she still gets to choose what games you get to play, how often and how long? Shareholders are a bit like that. It's like that in most organizations.>I don't think most of their investors has ever held a magic card in their hands, let alone know how to play the game.Yes, and?
>>94368894MtG is dead, Rosewater is a hack that is there only for money. His mask did not just slipped, it fell off his face, crashes on the floor abd exploded into tiny pieces.
>>94377780You're tomatoing wrong here, ie. you're mixing up definitions.A tomato is a fruit according to the botanical definition (seed-bearing structure in flowering plants), but it is also a vegetable according to the culinary definition (a plant typically eaten as part of a main course, as opposed to fruits which are usually eaten as part of dessert). If you're working with a chef, there's going to be some confusion if you sort the tomatoes with the fruits rather than with the vegetables, even though botanically it is technically a fruit.Similarly, Anime has several definitions.In the west, it generally refers to Japanese animated shows and films. By this strict, incredibly pedantic definition, Miku would not be an "anime" character.But, "Anime" is also used to refer to the visual style of Japanese animation, and Miku is very much an "Anime-style" character. It's not "technically" correct to call her an Anime character, but you'd have to be quite the pissant to feel the need to correct someone on "She's not an ANIME character, she's an ANIME-STYLE character."As for Guilty Gear, fighting games actually use "Anime" with a different definition, referring to a specific subgenre of fast-paced games that typically have air-dashing, with an evolution chart largely stemming from GG. There are actually some games that have an Anime-style (Like early entries of Street Fighter) that are not actually "Anime" fighting games, which makes things nice and confusing.And, to add one more layer of nonsense, in Japan, "Anime" is just the catch-all term for any animation whatsoever, including western cartoons and even CG, so it's especially strange to try and pretend that anyone should be some kind of narrow purist with what the word means when it's incredibly loose in its original form.>>94377636Understand?
>>94377970Thank you for schooling retards.
>>94377890>MtG is deadIt doesn’t have to be. I sincerely hope one day it goes back to its roots and removes the woke mind virus. Unfortunately I can’t see that happening any time soon.
today i discovered spongebob is coming to mtg. i'm not buying anything from wotc ever again. not even from the secondary markets
>>94377230This art causes me physical pain just because of how poorly rendered the SENMM is
>>94378960It is from the late 90s not sure if that makes a difference.
Old MTG lore was so cozy. It was just generic kitchen sink high fantasy and that was awesome.
>>94377803Your mom wants you to do more productive things, this is why she does that.Shareholders literally don't care if you are eating shit and playing vidya 24/7 as long as the bottom line goes up.They will never tell them to "make a set around swords because that's cool", all they will ask is how this affects the bottom line. I have been to a couple of shareholder's meeting (granted, not at any associated with hasbro or wotc), and they don't give a fuck about anything else, and a lot of those shareholders are not there for themselves, they usually represent and entire group or institution, so yeah, they really don't care about what the company is about.If we are doing a mother analogy, it would be a mother that literally don't care if you do drugs and shoot up schools as long as your grades are good. She is never present in your life except for the brief moments when you get to show your grades, if they are good, you need to do better next semester, if they are bad, stuff starts disappearing from your house until you are homeless.
>>94368894>solos Yawgmoth and Urza
>>94377389Blizzard gets a lot of people shitting on them, but they are really pretty standard game devs.
>>94380044No, they've gone firmly down the route of microtransactions. Can't wholely blame them, after the whole "A single $15 WoW horse made more money than the entirety of Starcraft 2" business.
>>94380225>No, they've gone firmly down the route of microtransactions.That's what he said>but they are really pretty standard game devs.>>94379730If swords are making boatloads of money for competitors and you're not doing swords then shareholders will absolutely start steering the ship in that direction. You are applying a strange sort of MTG specific pedantism to my point.AGMs and shareholder meetings do have a purpose and you're right, a lot of it is just jerking off and appeasement, but it's still a two way street and shareholders can and will affect decision making.
>>94379865This is hard to read. Just complete and utter wank. Of course it's a strong black womyn too.
>>94382115Compared to Urza wank it's hardly that poignant.
>>94379865>Can't even solo Vagavoth, aka budget Yawgmoth
>>94382130Urza wasn't an 8 year old girl with magic butterflies. Fuckwit.
>>94382130Urza was a wizard and artificer that dominated literal millenia of conflict and war in Dominaria and throughout the Planes. You could write a ten book series just on his escapades, but you wouldn't have to because it's already fucking written.Aminatou is a tired 'child of prophecy/destiny' trope that is of such pandering non-consequence, she dodged out on being a part of the set literally most thematically matched to her. Like why did they even tap her for any of it if godlike moth child isn't going to do anything even vaguely related with moth satan? Just like 'bye have a good time other characters' 'oops Kaito forgot his jacket, here you go, bye have a good time'.The only mercy is that the art on her newer card is less muddy and her cards aren't mechanically boring.. By the year 2030 we may have an Aminatou that actually looks nice.
>>94384361You could spin either character either way.Urza is one of the lamest kinds of power fantasies imaginable, the tired "Old man wizard" trope, and making devices already falls under that hat and doesn't need you to slap "artificer" on his business card. The only value he has is how powerful he is, and lo and behold that's enough to get nerds to worship him in the same way people treat Superman like a great character when he's so lame he wears his underwear on the outside.Aminatou isn't exactly a great character either, but it's not like Magic really has any characters that could stand on their own if they weren't attached to a game that largely exists just as a way for children to start gambling early with physical proto-lootboxes. It's why every media venture focused around Magic characters has never gone anywhere, because for all the worlds they create and stories they generate, at the end of the day we're largely just talking about the theming of a slot machine.It's kind of a shame, because there are plenty of amazing ideas scattered around Magic, with huge amounts of talent in terms of artists who've contributed to the game. But, it's also inevitable that every single good idea will be ruined eventually, and they're even decided to try their hand at ruining other properties.
>>94385078Urza's cool but I sure as hell wouldn't ever want to be him, the guy's life seriously sucked.Honestly I don't get the comparison to Superman, at least he has people who care about him and he's a nice guy. But Urza just ended up becoming an asshole due to how tragic and shitty his life was.
>>94385078You are retarded.Urza lost everything he valued and allowed himself to be completely consumed by revenge. He undergoes significant character development and actively fails in most of his ventures."Old man wizard" is a tired archetype, but that is why the writers gave him genuine development and did not write him as an infallible, do-anything piece of pandering.
>>94385249>but that is why the writers gave him genuine developmentNo, they just bought power with pity currency. No different from every edgy Chuunibyo's tragic backstory.I really don't have much of a beef with Urza, but if you want to pretend he's not a huge sack of power wank because he's also a bit of an idiot that's generally how must of these sort of power fantasies go.
>>94385275>Everybody wants to be an insane old man who gets reduced to a headSure thing buddy.
>>94373730Maro has been an eager stooge in their shortsighted mission to ruin magic. Anyone who defends him has been conned into playing the devil's advocate by propaganda. He's never kept his word, basically if he says something you know that he's planning to go back on it in 4 years. Corporate Hasbro couldn't find a better yesman if they tried.
>>94377291I like magic. I like the mechanics. But yeah I haven't bought anything from them since eldraine. I only play with my brother and we proxy everything on printer paper.
>Buy pack>Pull a holo mythic rare>"HOLY SHIT BIG BUCKS!!">Search it up>It's a fucking $1.50 card>Check out my other ones>From the same booster I got a common that's worth $5.5This has got to be the dumbest price scaling I've ever seen in a TCG, this makes no sense whatsoever.
>>94382130Urza has experienced heartache and bitter failure. He evolved as a character from student to artificer and made plenty of mistakes along the way. He is a well storied character. You just want a powerwank black girl.
>>94386819>Urza has experienced heartache and bitter failure.Batman's parents are dead. Superman's planet is dead.Still wank.
>>94368894Do the cards from the gimmick collector's sets actually legal for tournaments etc or are they just the cardboard equivalent of Funkos? t. hasn't played MtG since 2008.
>>94368894>They hated guns in Portal Second AgeBuddy buddy buddy, if you read their articles regarding Univeres Beyond, they hate having guns in their setting, period. Its one of the few things WotC is strict about. Even with fallout and Jurassic park prominently featuring guns, they shoehorn around it. WotC unironically hates guns more than they love money
>>94387054Yes but they might not be legal in every format.
>>94387106Meanwhile, I live in a reality with the 40k set.
>>94386746The value of a magic card isn't really derived from the printed rarity or the treatment.The value of a magic card is derived from two main points.The vast majority of cards have their value derived from playability. Does it have a home in a deck? Is it in the meta? Value goes up. Is it a piece of draft chaff? Worth very little, even in foils. Though the foils can sometimes turn it from literally worthless to might be valuable.The other is notability. Is there something special about this card? Alpha and Beta cards are notable because they're from Alpha and Beta. Smothering Tithe is a card going for about $25, but the Confettifoil version with the Daisuke Tatsuma art is ~$400, because the art on it is funny and confettifoiling was unique to that printing. Serialized cards, much as I hate them, do sometimes command a higher cost than non-serialized because it being part of that series means something to some people. And something like the Yoshitaka Amano Liliana take a $15 card takes it to a card that commands a cost in the thousands for a foil due to a combination of its rarity (rare card, with a rare art treatment, in foil, from Japanese booster specifically) and its prominence -Yoshitaka Amano is an artist that's beloved by a certain subset of nerds. The other Japanese WAR Planeswalkers don't all have the same level of value commanded by them, because a lot of the other artists aren't as renown. A few of them command price points in the hundreds, but that's because those are bling pieces for people already running those cards. A lot of people want Amano Liliana just to have it, even if it never sees play. This sometimes works in the opposite way as well. Corpse Knight from m20 had a misprint, which NORMALLY command a high price point. However, there are so many corpse knight misprints out there that it's only worth about 50 cents - there's nothing notable about it.
>>94387106>WotC unironically hates guns more than they love moneyNo they don't.The multiple secret lairs and universes beyond products that feature guns tell me that when the choice comes down to artistic direction and money, WoTC will ALWAYS choose money.Bit of a shame too, because I've always loved this card from portal 2 specifically. Yeah, it's unplayably bad but the flavor of this card rules.
>>94386971Everything is wank. Weak characters are underdogs, which is wank.Strong characters are all superman since I read nothing but the slopiest of capeshit, and that's wank as well.Giving your characters any modicum of success even if they're massive failure and are miserable is wank.The only way to not wank a character is to have them be utterly insignificant, be made fun of, and then die in humiliating fasion.
Sorry, guys. There's a Magic tournament this weekend and all the tables are full of sweaty ogres.
>>94387180Should have been an instant.
>>94377483They tried mini sets again with aftermath and made it cost a shit ton with horrid EV then concluded no one liked mini sets
>>94377573>>94377636Someone at my shop bought all these lairs and said “I’m transgender of course I LOVE Hatsune Miku,” and I said, “can you name a song using her or a vocaloid producer?” and they drew a blank.
>>94387615Unfortunately, Vengeance debuted in Portal (the first one) - a set with no instants, only sorceries. It's also 4 mana, which is way too much.Eventually, they power crept it with "Take Vengeance" 1W for the same effect.Which then got powercrept a few different ways, but the "best" one is probably swift response. Which is 1W for an instant vengeance effect.
>>94387615No. That defeats the flavor of the card.The intended play pattern here is that your opponent attacks you with a creature, then on the next turn you take vengeance on it by destroying it. Making it an instant allows you to destroy an attacking creature before it has actually done anything to you which does not go along with the flavor. It should cost W and be a sorcery to be a shitty version of Swords To Plowshares.I would also really like a card like pic related to exist but WotC has always hated mentioning summoning sickness and making the game even more simplified and retard proof just lowers the odds of that happening even more.
>>94385275>No different from every edgy chuunibyo's tragic backstoryYou continue to be retarded.Urza's tragedy didn't happen in his backstory. His backstory more or less does not exist since everything that shapes him into who he is happens actively throughout multiple sets. His 'backstory' is 'he's an artificer'. Him becoming a planeswalker, him losing Mishra, him making the legacy weapon, him destroying all his friendships due to his obsession, all of this happens after he has been introduced as a character during Antiquities. Having Sasuke have some tragic backstory where his whole family was slaughtered is very different than having him start out as an ordinary dude and then having his entire family slaughtered and seeing how it changes him as a character AFTER establishing his pre-tragic character.
>>94387786Dude. You're pretty fucking stupid.Urza's history is still no different from the kind of pity currency you find in every edgy chuunbyo's tragic backstpry, no matter how upset you get about that fact.
>>94387820First you lambast Urza for being an "Old man wizard," then you call hims superman and batman, now you're calling him a "chuunbyo"Can you actually extrapolate the problems you have with Urza in detail, so far you've complained about him being strong and flawed.But I don't see how being strong and flawed are wank.
>>94387899Because he's not engaging in good faith anon, he made that abundantly clear with the first response.
>>94388030You shut the fuck up.>>94387899Don't deliberately miss the point and then beg me to repeat myself. The major point is that as much as you can whine about how Urza is 2Deep4u and totally not a bundle of tired cliches in a lame and unappealing package, the same can be done for Aminatou, and vice versa.Anyone could wax poetic about how imaginative and deep that character is, and how she has to suffer through all the pains off prescience while only equipped with the mind and body of a child, and how all her power makes every bad thing that occurs largely partially her responsibility and bla bla bla, but all they'd be doing is the same thing you're doing with Urza: Spinning.
>>94388072>The major point is that as much as you can whine about how Urza is 2Deep4u and totally not a bundle of tired cliches in a lame and unappealing package, the same can be done for Aminatou, and vice versa.I for one don't really care about Aminatou either way, and I'm not saying Urza is "2Deep4u" I like him and I'm asking you what you don't like about him.>Anyone could wax poetic about how imaginative and deep that character is, and how she has to suffer through all the pains off prescience while only equipped with the mind and body of a child, and how all her power makes every bad thing that occurs largely partially her responsibility and bla bla bla, but all they'd be doing is the same thing you're doing with Urza: Spinning.WhenI say Urza makes his own problems, it's not because he's strong and is thus responsible for them in some nebulous way as I think you're implying here, it's because he makes his own problem. Dude starts shit, suffers for it, and ends up regretting it his entire life. Even at the end of his life he gave into temptation and betraying everyone else, which forces him into the situation he was trying to avoid in the first place. Having to sacrifice his life to use the Legacy Weapon against Yawgmoth.
>>94388438I didn't invite you to spin some more and wax even harder.>I'm asking you what you don't like about him.He's a bundle of cliches in an unattractive package? He's a mediocre character even at his best.I don't even have any strong dislike for him; I don't have many strong feelings about him either way. But, crying about Aminatou but giving Urza a free pass is some weird hypocrisy. Neither are particularly good examples of characters.If you really want to get mad at a character for being black/female AND for being irredeemable shit, Kaya should be your go-to.
>>94375984Sorry, but I will never buy the narrative that WotC are bigger kikes than KonamiIt's just not true
>>94380044pretty standard in the sense of big corporate AAA devs who ruin their own product with woke influence and indian outsourcing
>>94388679>He's a bundle of cliches in an unattractive package? He's a mediocre character even at his best.Honestly I don't highly value originality, I think judging character by how familiar you are with them. But I have no idea how you look at Urza and get Superman, I guess I could kind of understand Batman since they've both failed a lot and there are some pretty tragic batmen. But calling a character bad because they're elderly and a wizard is something I don't get at all, and honestly I don't see the resemblance between the living failure that is Urza and somebody like Gandalf who's literally the archtype which the modern day old man wizard spawns from.>I don't even have any strong dislike for him; I don't have many strong feelings about him either way. But, crying about Aminatou but giving Urza a free pass is some weird hypocrisy. Neither are particularly good examples of characters.>If you really want to get mad at a character for being black/female AND for being irredeemable shit, Kaya should be your go-to.I don't care about those two, I know another Anon brought them up but besides recognizing them as characters which exist, I don't have an opinion on Aminatou, but I think Kaya is dumb.
>>94388072Sorry are you upset that I caught on you don't actually believe a goddamn word your saying? Cry harder because I don't care.
>>94388877>But I have no idea how you look at Urza and get SupermanThey're both primarily characters that people only really care about because of how powerful they are. If either was just a mid-tier superhero or nu-planeswalker-tier-planeswalker, they'd be laughed at for how lame and boring they are.>I don't see the resemblance between the living failure that is Urza and somebody like Gandalf Because Gandalf isn't the only old man wizard. There's literally hundreds. You really need to stop being intentionally dumb about this stuff. But, even Gandalf holds the position of "Guy way beyond just about everyone else's power level." The difference is that people like Gandalf because he has personality and wisdom, and him being able to 1-v-1 a Balrog actually is something of a mark against his character, rather than the crutch he depends upon.Easiest comparison is Elminster, and there's many other who fit that niche, complete with tragic histories that are supposed to be able to excuse just how much wank they are.>but I think Kaya is dumb.She's a pitch perfect example of how to ruin something. The Obzedat were probably one of the most interesting ideas to come out of the original Ravnica, possibly all of magic. Really, a fantastic guild, through and through, and then all of it destroyed by the lamest Mary Sue.
>>94389293>They're both primarily characters that people only really care about because of how powerful they are. If either was just a mid-tier superhero or nu-planeswalker-tier-planeswalker, they'd be laughed at for how lame and boring they are.I get it, I have a friend like this in real life as well. Any fictional character she deems as too strong she immediately discounts as wank and won't even give the time of day.I can't say I agree at all with were you're coming from, but it's not unfamiliar to me. >She's a pitch perfect example of how to ruin something. The Obzedat were probably one of the most interesting ideas to come out of the original Ravnica, possibly all of magic. Really, a fantastic guild, through and through, and then all of it destroyed by the lamest Mary Sue.Kaya really is the worst, actually thinking about it there nothing I like story wise in WaR. But Kaya and Dovin Baan are probably what I dislike about it the most.
>>94389521I don't think you do get it.It's not a question if a character is "too strong", it's a question of what's left over if you remove that strength.Take away Gandalf's strength, and he's a wise man with both a sense of humor and duty and improves just about every scene he's in. He delivers timeless lines, serves as the moral pillar of the fellowship, and does it all with a careful mix of humility and pride that's always in the proper proportions. Take away his ability to solo a Balrog, and he's still a great character.Take away Urza's strength? He's kind of an idiot, and he seems to follow the same weakness most of Magic's characters have, with their motivations and decisions being more shaped by the larger plot and for the sake of WHOA DRAMA then anything that might feel natural or even logical. He's essentially a soap opera character, hailing from Magic's most clear and deliberate Soap Opera period.His role is generally either to kill someone or to fuck things up, often both. He's almost like an inverse Gandalf, in that the more we see of Gandalf, the happier everyone is, while the more we see of Urza the more miserable everyone is.
>>94390136Honestly I don't mind characters who are shitty as people and I don't watch melodramas so they aren't that familiar to me.But honestly I was never a fan of "If you take away a character powers" arguments since characters exist within the context of their powers, it's like saying what if batman but n trauma, Batman is pretty defined by his trauma. Although superman fails this test since regardless of his powers or personal trauma he's just sorta a nice guy with a good upbringing, so I don't know why you brought him up.
>>94390791>Batman is pretty defined by his trauma.Not really. There was a good, long, long stretch of the comics where Batman's past was rarely mentioned and he was borderline chipper. He was essentially acting as a perfect role model and guardian for Robin, and the 60's television series and even the Batman Manga really emphasized that the definitive aspect of Batman wasn't his dark, brooding nature, but his role as well-meaning independent detective with vast resources and a fondness for flying rodents.More importantly, Batman's Power Level can be taken away from him and he'd still essentially be Batman. He doesn't have to be the "Guy who could defeat all the Super Friends by himself", and he really wasn't until his popularity made the writers decide he had to be. If Batman was just a very good detective with a lot of money, he wouldn't be able to command that artificial awe that happens any time he makes an appearance. Same thing with Supes, in that if he was just one of the many Flying Bricks that DC has, he'd be even more forgettable than Flying Bricks+a Gimmick characters like Thundermind or Icon.When a character is dependent on his Power Level, they generally turn to shit. Supes has always been a fairly lame design. Batman is always better off solving the crimes of Batman-tier enemies instead of being the strongest member of the Justice League.
>>94390974>Supes has always been a fairly lame design.Nah, I think he's cool. I'm not the biggest fan of him but I'm also fond of how uncorruptible and nice he is.Even if he didn't have his superpowers or wasn't as powerful, I'd like him. Although I think it's important to not have him be perfect and always right, but he'll always be incorruptible and good-hearted, even if what he's doing is wrong.>Batman is always better off solving the crimes of Batman-tier enemies instead of being the strongest member of the Justice League.This I really agree with, I really hate the incessant need publishers have to crossover all of their series, and I think Batman works best with a smaller scale and stakes.At least relative to the high ends, but I do admittedly like the Dark Knight returns, but that also has smaller scale heroes in general.
>>94388804It’s such a shame they let it corrupt and destroy traditional games too. But people keep buying the cards and D&D remains popular so we really can’t do much about it.
>>94387167Reminds me of YGO in a way. Sure, there's special super rare foils worth a bunch but there's even somewhat regular cards that have been reprinted dozens of times still worth over $10 (Ash Blossom) because of their borderline necessity in competitive play.
>>94389293You are actually too stupid to voice your opinions on things.People who are fans of Superman like him because he represents an ideal of virtuousness and goodness. Some of the best remembered stories are the ones where he doesn't do anything that requires powers. It's actually the retards who hate on Superman who always spout power level nonsense. What's especially silly is that you have to go out of your way to deny Urza having a character outside of 'super strong guy' but fail to provide any examples and pass over the literally dozens of examples that prove you wrong.I gave you the benefit of the doubt earlier because I assumed you were just unfamiliar with (1) character writing (2) Urza and (3) not being a retarded homosexual arguing in bad faith; but now I see that I was wrong to do so.
>>94390791>>94390974>>94391182If Clark Kent didn't need to be Superman's cover then I'm inclined to think he would be journalist jesus. But, yea, it's hard to say. How much of Superman's moral foundation actually comes from having superpowers and having to rationalize them? I personally kind of like Justice League Batman because I like to see Batman outsmarting or outmaneuvering superpowered opponents. It's disappointing when he just uses fighter jets or when he can inexplicably kick like a superhero. Ideally, when the Justice League deploys, Batman shouldn't be there. None of the badguys should know where Batman is. And that should worry them.
>>94392258>BatmanHe's the stealthy rogue with an Int-build
>>94392857Okay but what does that have to do with Toph?
>>94392205You're a retard and a piece of shit; never open your mouth again.No one likes Superman solely because of his virtue. He'd be a very mediocre Jesus by that standard, a very mediocre American Jesus even. Take away his strength, even just put him in the same tier as other heroes, and even the rest of the Justice League would treat him like a joke. To make things worse, his "virtues" often just match whatever his current writer believes in, and that often makes him have lukewarm morals or even be outright immoral.Also, the best remembered stories? Many involve evil Superman. Or morally-compromised Superman. Hell, there's even a whole subgenre now of "What if Superman... BUT EBIL?!">It's actually the retards who hate on Superman who always spout power level nonsense.It's very easy to dislike Superman. There's no shortage of incredibly poorly written stories with him, including several films. I actually like plenty of incarnations of Superman, but I'm not going to ignore how poorly designed the character is or how most of his fans are primarily concerned with how powerful he is.>you have to go out of your way to deny Urza having a characterHe has a mediocre character. "Obsessive retard" handles 90% of it. Take away his power, and he's just an old man who made a lot of stupid mistakes. A lot of poorly written mistakes.Like marrying someone just to get a book. That's flat-out awful writing, Take away Urza's power, and we wouldn't be talking about him, because he would have been forgotten. It's only him being lauded as one of the most powerful figures in Magic and given cards intended to reflect that power that we are even giving him the time of day. Take away that power, and we've got a pretty dumb nerd, who acts like his sole purpose is to propel a Soap Opera Drama forward.
>>94394367>No one likes Superman solely because of his virtue. He'd be a very mediocre Jesus by that standard, a very mediocre American Jesus even. Take away his strength, even just put him in the same tier as other heroes, and even the rest of the Justice League would treat him like a joke. To make things worse, his "virtues" often just match whatever his current writer believes in, and that often makes him have lukewarm morals or even be outright immoral.Not only that but Black Canary, Green Arrow, and Cyborg have all been highly respected leaders of the Justice League at one point, and one of them just shoots arrows. Being a leader and respected often correlates with strength but in universe people care about Superman and respect him because of how he acts. Not to mention while not perfect, I don't think any of the leaders of the League would outright dismiss someone for not being as strong as they are, the League has hundreds of members, lots of which are highly respected despite not being in the top tier of fighters.Honestly I just think you've spent to much time around versus battlers.>Like marrying someone just to get a book. That's flat-out awful writing,No? Urza wants something(a thran tome to advance his research) and he sees in the dowry of a woman he doesn't hate so he passes her father's test to marry her, and as a plus he becomes the prince consort allowing him access to the funds he needs to also expand his research. By this time he doesn't even have any superpowers by his settings own standard, he's just a gifted and obsessive artificer, which is part of his character that informs how he acts.I can understand not liking that, but I wouldn't call it "flat-out awful writing"
>>94394754>Not only that but Black Canary, Green Arrow, and Cyborg have all been highly respected leaders of the Justice LeagueIn universe? According to certain writers, but you could have everyone in-universe respect anyone for any reason. >I don't think any of the leaders of the League would outright dismiss someone for not being as strong as they areWith other writers, even with his strength people still ridicule Supes for his often-times simplistic morality, with Batman especially not just ridiculing him, but even punching him out over it on multiple occasions. The reason I even brought up the other members of the Justice League ridiculing a less-powerful Supes is to showcase the range of how many people would stop taking him seriously or treating his word as gospel or even seeing him as any sort of pillar of morality. Without his strength, Superman doesn't even measure up well against Mr. Rogers.Out-of-universe, people are not picking up Superman comics to receive his preaching. Anyone who does should probably rethink their entire life.>I can understand not liking that, but I wouldn't call it "flat-out awful writing"It's awful writing, because it's pretty obvious writing in reverse; ie. they know where they want the character to end up, and they're not worried about how convoluted the explanation needs to be in order for it to happen.Urza could have gotten access to the book and financing with ease without the marriage (and civil responsibilities) he was expressly disinterested in. The contest is the exact opposite of a convenient opportunity, because it included long-term commitments and baggage that would work against Urza's goals, slowing down his research with distractions and responsibilities.>By this time he doesn't even have any superpowers by his settings own standardHe's a super-genius more gifted than everyone else in his already gifted country, able to win a contest largely on a whim and without any real exertion. Tony Stark.
>>94395000>In universe? According to certain writers, but you could have everyone in-universe respect anyone for any reason.>With other writers, even with his strength people still ridicule Supes for his often-times simplistic morality, with Batman especially not just ridiculing him, but even punching him out over it on multiple occasions.Batman and Superman have tension, but they don't hate each other(most of the time and when they do there are extenuating circumstances). In fact, the biggest problem Batman has with Superman is his strength and the fact it's hard to check him. A weaker Superman would be someone Batman would probably be more comfortable with, so I don't get the point your making.>The reason I even brought up the other members of the Justice League ridiculing a less-powerful Supes is to showcase the range of how many people would stop taking him seriously or treating his word as gospel or even seeing him as any sort of pillar of morality. Without his strength, Superman doesn't even measure up well against Mr. Rogers.I don't care to argue about relative degrees of "goodness" between fictional characters and Mr. Rogers, I don't get the point you're trying to make here. Nobody except Mr. Rogers can be Mr. Rogers and I have no idea why you brought him up, neither Batman or Gandalf or Mr. Rogers either.>Urza could have gotten access to the book and financing with ease without the marriage (and civil responsibilities) he was expressly disinterested in. The contest is the exact opposite of a convenient opportunity, because it included long-term commitments and baggage that would work against Urza's goals, slowing down his research with distractions and responsibilities.Because the writers wanted to inject tension into the story and just giving a character what they want and need is boring? Besides with being the Prince-consort of Troog he has access to a lot more money to use in his research. Urza wants something but doing that causes complications.
>>94395000>>94395227 (cont.)>He's a super-genius more gifted than everyone else in his already gifted country, able to win a contest largely on a whim and without any real exertion. Tony Stark.I brought up him being an genius artificer as not being superpowers, because I thought you were mocking superpowers as something that exists separately from the character they're attached to. But Urza being an artificer informs his characters, characters also have capabilities and those influence how they act, how they're viewed by the people around them, and what they can and cannot acomplish.Urza being a skilled artificer is something that impacts the entirety of his character and informs his decisions, same thing for Gandalf being a Maia, or Batman being a detective.
>>94395227>I don't get the point you're trying to makeWhat I don't get is why you're having such a hard time keeping up.Superman minus his strength is... what? A boy scout? Is anyone out there reading comics about boy scouts?>>94392205 wanted to say that fans of Superman like him as "an ideal of virtuousness and goodness." That's ultimately a horrible lie, even as far back as his very first appearance. He's lifting a car, not helping an old lady cross the street.Fans of Superman like him because of how strong he is, something reinforced over and over again by positioning him as a superhero in a league of his own, even despite many characters being cited as being equal in speed/strength/etc. His plot armor and meta-importance puts him at the forefront of DC, and that's what attracts people to him.People are not reading his comics because of his morality.>Because the writers wanted to inject tension into the story Soap Opera writing.Instead of building a good character, seeing events through his eyes, and having him act accordingly, we get a convoluted "How do we get this Nerd to become a Prince?" nonsense that's almost laughable in how blunt it is. Urza doing anything for money is laughable, because he accidentally makes priceless artifacts whenever he trips in his workshop. Urza being an obsessive nerd who doesn't care about people is part of his character? Oh well, make him want... a book or some shit. >Urza being a skilled artificer is something that impacts the entirety of his character and informs his decisionsExcept it doesn't. He is controlled by the plot. A person with his abilities and intelligence has so many options available to him, but he has a strange habit of making terrible decisions whenever the plot needs him to make them, even if these decisions are obviously inefficient, unnecessarily risky, or outright idiotic.
>>94395542>Superman minus his strength is... what? A boy scout? Is anyone out there reading comics about boy scouts?This is a dumb argument, a dumb one I've before. So I'm not going to respond to you after this, but I've never agreed with that sort of silly argument, stories are written about extraordinary people so of course they're going to have extraordinary abilities, that's part of the premise and why you would read the book in the first place.Also Captain America exists and he's basically just a boy scout as a Superhero, so yes people would read that. And again characters exist within the context of their capabilities, and I'd still like Superman even if he was a normie, because he's likable and nice.I still have no idea why you insisted the Justice league would hate Superman if he was a normie though, that's a really strange argument to make. >Soap Opera writing.Stories need tension, and not all of that can be provided by things external to a character?Not everything a character has to do needs to be perfect, sometimes characters have internal problems of make their own problems, I don't watch soap operas so it's not as cliche to me since I'm less familiar with it, but I get it, you prefer external conflict.
>>94395650At this point, I'm sorry, but I'm thoroughly convinced you're a waste of time. I've explained things to you, but you don't have the requisite intelligence to understand even basic ideas.>stories are written about extraordinary people so of course they're going to have extraordinary abilities, that's part of the premise and why you would read the book in the first place.So you agree with me that the primary reason people read about Supes/Captain America isn't because of their boy scout morality, but because of their power, whether we're talking in-universe or meta. It's almost like you're just trying to avoid agreeing with me for some reason, all the way to trying to create this bizarre idea that we're not allowed to examine specific components of a character because you don't want to look at what gets revealed when we do.>I'd still like Superman even if he was a normie, because he's likable and nice.But you wouldn't care enough about him to read his stories about himself. Hell, you probably wouldn't even read his articles in the DP. More importantly, we're not talking about My Buddy Superman, we're talking about Superman's design, which is atrocious. Thousands of writers and artists have spent the better part of a century trying to fix him, and he's still a guy running around in blue tights with 9/10 times wearing his red underwear on the outside.No matter how nice he was, no one would give two fucks about him. >I still have no idea why you insisted the Justice league would hate Superman if he was a normie thoughTry reading what I actually wrote. >Stories need tensionAnyone can invent tension for a story. But if you do it poorly, it's called bad writing. Understand?Christ, its' like kindergarten here.
>>94388030I'm sorry for doubting you.
>>94395843Run away, retard.
Mtg audience is a victim of their own creation. Especially and i mean ESPECIALLY the redditors who kept going "but its not THAT bad!". Walking Dead should have been the big glaring warning sign of what was to come but pushback against critics let them freely crank shit up with no repercussions. This isnt just a boiled frog it is charred and burnt while the frog still asks for more
>>94395888I just hope the game dies fast, I don't want to see the corpse of something I loved dragged out for too long.
>>94395888Mtg's fanbase is like a centrifuge where people with a brain just leave and only the bootlicker funko pop retards remain. If you ever checked out the commander general this brain drain is super obvious and now its just 40 year old redditors basedpogging over their ironman deck
>>94395907Sorry but the consumers wont allow it and the shareholders will make it a slow death
>>94395888>pushback against critics let them freely crank shit up with no repercussions.Weird cope mate. Hasbro doesn't care who wins internet arguments, Hasbro cares about sales. It sold well because people liked it, and people "pushed back" against "critics" for the same reason, it was because they liked it. When are you people going to stop pretending like reddit invented capitalism?
>>94397017Mardu who prove themselves in battle get to choose their name. Simple as. I love it. I'd love to see more speculative gender norms in MtG, but the truth is that this one just barely skirted the "no homophobia in the multiverse" line, and we aren't likely to see anything similar. To be honest you guys kinda dropped the ball on this one, they printed a male-to-female transsexual character and she's LITERALLY smiling at death, you should have memed it to the moon and back.
>>94368894>They hated gunsThey sure do. In Outlaws of Thunder Junction, their wild west set, they gave everyone the equivalent of like halo energy blades. These "rifles" as they call it in-universe, shoot an energy that looks like lightning but its actually called thunder. Pic related was a meme about how stupid that sounded.
>>94368894this is nu mtgforget about anything, they just only care about money now
>>94397195It can't even be called a proper western setting without any native americans or guns, if Wizards really lacked the balls to put those in then they shouldn't have tried to do a western setting at all.
>>94397766>native americansIt has those, the Atiin, but they are not native, they are like colonizers of a different sort. Wizards specifically hired some native american consultants when making them. The Atiin come from some other world we know nothing about. The only thing you learn otherwise about them is they have an english name and also of an Atiin name. I do agree they shouldn't have attempted it as they proven how inept they are.
>>94397195>>94397766Wow, sounds even worse than I thought. What does the wild west even have to do with fantasy? Sounds incredibly retarded
>>94398712You can make interesting things with the wild west and either fantasy or science fiction, what is colloquially known as weird west. Like the Red Dead Redemption games, it is mostly grounded, but it does like to flirt with weird west for its easter eggs and some dlc like Undead Nightmare.Obviously wizards of the coast fucked that up somehow.
Pic related exists and I hate it
>>94399573>school cheerleaderWell you see shes actually a deeper character than Urza and no I wont spend time explaining to wastrels like you how that works
>>94395888Huge chunks of the MtG audience are Extremely Online leftists who curate a list of people who are "gamergate-adjacent." Someone out there is cheering whenever a character is revealed to be gay, queer, non-binary, or trans.In most ways the mirror image of tiresome brain-killed rightoids.
>>94385078>>94385190>>94385249Urza is if anything closer to Rick Sanchez. He doesn't have the hedonism, but he does make grand plans and build a ton of shit he never shares with anyone, like a private minecraft server, all to further a personal grudge.He's not a power-fantasy character. His most humanizing feature is that at core, he's a man who hides among his machines because he finds machines easier to understand than people.
>>94388679Urza as a human is a pretty good character; he's got that Oppenheimer thing where he was so obsessed with building machines he never stopped to think what someone else might use them for. Then he found himself trapped in the grinding war machine he had created until he sees how much has been lost and does a big final sacrifice, then Dr-Manhattans himself.After that point he becomes a wanky inconsistent plot device.
>>94399573>inner city teen cheerleader>just as strong as two bears
>>94399903People don't care about that, stop pretending otherwise, all they care about is that Urza is strong.
>>94377062He bitched about it back then too
>>94378960Rendered? It's a painting
>>94377291Why not work on your art?
>>94385078You literally know nothing about Urza if you call him "tired old wizard trope".
>>94401884>>94401884You literally know nothing about Aminatou if you call her "tired child of prophecy/destiny trope".
>>94401968>Saying this to an Anon who didn't even bring up AminatouGreat deflection.
>>94400084No one really cared that Urza was strong. Sure him being strong was great to show how much stronger Yawgmoth was to Urza. >>94401968I didn't, I said Urza wasn't a Tired Old Wizard. You know who fell under that character trope, Barrin. In the Urza saga, Barrin is the tired old wizard, not Urza. If anything, Urza is the ascended being or the mastermind. You can even say he's the chosen one. Just to sum up how important in lore Urza and Mishra are to the world, the primary dating system on Dominaria is the Argivian Reckoning (A.R.) with year 0 being the estimated birth of Urza and Mishra. As for Superman, people don't like him because he's strong. People like Batman because he's strong. Superman is entirely different. Superman enjoyers find him being nearly unstoppable to be his worst aspect, which is something that has only grown with the character after his death and resurrection. No Superman fans like Superman because he is the embodiment of humility and civic duty. He could easily take over the world, without much problem. He could be rich, powerful, anything imaginable. He doesn't, he's a mild mannered reporter (the virtue of the profession has been lost, but there was a time when journalism was dangerous and journalists were respected) who, when the duty calls, goes through get bounds of strength and violence, only to settle back down as a humble man when its over. Superman, more so than any other comic character in the history of the medium, represents the American ideal, and its tied to his entire identity. Hell his very first issue is him beating up and outing a corrupt politician. He's not saving a guy from a car on the cover of Action Comics #1, he threatening to crush him with it. I'll get to Urza and why you're wrong about him in a second.
>>94402160That anon is replying to a post explaining that both characters could be spun. Give Aminatou a novel series, and you'll have losers explaining how deep and tragic her character is.
>>94402185>he's a mild mannered reporterYou mean he has a gigantic fortress all his own, completely stocked with priceless treasures and even his own personal exotic menagerie."Clark" is really just a fucked up bit of pretend; an act he maintains out of a pure condescending attitude towards humanity, a species so inferior to him that he doesn't even put any real effort in a disguise. It's like a rich man deciding to take a shift at McDonald's as a lark; he's not actually connecting with the workers who need the job in order to survive, he's just doing it to amuse himself and to try and bang a human lady.
>>94399512>Red Dead RedemptionI didn't mind Undead Nightmare but it didn't feel like a fantasy game. If they put Read Dead Redemption into magic I'd still be annoyed.
>>94402188>If you develop a character, people like them.Shocking, absolutely astounding.
>>94402185>As for Superman, people don't like him because he's strong.That's fundamentally wrong.Even when they reduce his in-universe power, they just compensate with meta-power, the thing that forms the majority of Batman's power. Batman is really nothing more than "What if we gave a human all the plot-armor and scripted conveniences in the world?"When Superman fans lament him being able to just win everything via brute strength, what they're actually saying is "Why can't he have more meta-power like Batman?"
>>94402231Right, superman just pretended his entire childhood and has no connection to humanity, at all, it's not like he was raised by human parents who he cares deeply about. Sure thing crazy.Although Superman being a reporter can be an underused aspect of his character.
>Be Urza>Brother hates you, and you hate him>your hatred kills your adopted mother>fight world ending war with WW3 tech using previously bronze age civilizations>use magical nuke out of desperation with the realization magic is real, destroy a continent, nearly end the world, kill your brother>feel extremely guilty about it>find out your brothers tech came from a hellish plane called Phyrexia>check on your descendants>your only grandson looks like the spitting image of Mishra, realize you have no descendants>in secret, and with the help of your new powers of being a Planeswalker (with two sparks) build mechanical army and invade Phyrexia>outclassed>so outclassed it's hard to describe>befriend a phyrexian dessenter, Xantcha>decide to take on the God of this plane>his mere presence is enough to overwhelm you>gtfo to the next random plane, Serra's Realm>forgot to use the welcome mat, because of this Serra moves (no that's literally what happened)>Xantcha dies>Go back to Dominaria>open a school for children to raise an army>at school start the Bloodline project and create a species of asexual genetic warriors>create a planeswalking ship, scatter the parts throughout the world out of justified paranoia>create and artificial moon that is just a white mana battery>fast forward a thousand years>Gerrard, the apex of your bloodline project, is born, and as you planned, will be the hero to save the world>realize he isn't enough, and make 9 mech suits to be piloted by Planeswalkers, each one with a killswitch incase any planeswalker decides to betray you>figure a nuke worked last time, create a nuke to destroy Phyrexia, and recruit nine walkers, secretly hate them all>go to Phyrexia, all of them leave you, you betray, or betray you>find yourself alone walking in the wastes of Phyrexia>see your brother, he's being tortured, and begs for help>leave him there>arrive at the center, realize Yawgmoth has won, and pledge loyalty to him
>>94402231You must be talking about modern Superman, no one reads that trite. Though his fortress of solitude is admittedly pretty old, first appearing in 49, right before the silver age of comics. However it being full of priceless treasures is a rather modern thing. It use to be just sort a menagerie where he would go to ponder located deep in the arctic far away from civilization. Can you source a time when Superman, hell, any Superman comic before 2010, where Superman shows contempt for humanity? I'd like you to go on /co/ and say that
>>94402362>Yawgmoth says to prove loyalty you must kill your prized creation>fight a lose to Gerrard>Gerrard wounds Yawgmoth, kills the Evincar>Yawgmoth goes to Dominaria, with him, releases a giant mustard gas cloud>Gerrard carries your head, you're still alive, but reduced to a head>tell gerrard what he needs to do, Gerrard does a kamikaze run with a the weatherlight and a mana Death Star, kills Yawgmoth>all gets absorbed by Karn, who I forgot to even mention before>Gerrard is remembered as a great hero>Your entire legacy, for a world you saved out of spite, is being a sociopathic psycho who lost to hubris>Your staff becomes not one but two world ending threats in its own right>Yawgmoth (in a more abstract form) and Phyrexia continue to march on
>>94402307Him having nostalgia for his past and keeping a dummy account around doesn't really change that he's a guy who has his own castle, his own laboratory, his own zoo, his own treasury, is his own personal army, and is also so far beyond monetary concerns that the richest man on the planet is jealous of him. Saying he's just a mild mannered reporter when that's just a costume he puts on when he isn't in his private personal kingdom is a weird joke. Calling him an emblem of humility is bizarre, considering he works for a paper where he spends most of his time making sure his alter ego looks good. Even his very first article for the Daily Planet was about Superman. Of course, later writers have tried to change this, because it sounds as bad as it is, but he still ends up marrying a woman who basically dedicated her entire life to writing about how amazing Superman is.
>>94402424The fact you think Lex Luthor is jealous of him, and not legitimately concerned with the fact that there is a Super Powered entity that could easily take over the world shows how little you know of both Superman, and the source material he is from. Granted he did start life as an egotistical genius who wanted to provoke wars for profit.
>>94402362>>94402413Doesn't seem like a mary sue to me but I'm not the kind of dickhead who would argue with someone over the course of several days.
>>94402424That's the irony. She was enamored by Superman, and he was right in front of her.
>>94402468Oh yeah, totally a dickhead. Arguably even a sociopath. Basically Karn (who was immortal, being a Golem) was starting to feel nostalgia and pinned over people he outlived. So to cure this, Urza set it up so Karn would forget things after 15 years. When Barrin (his most trusted cohorts) daughter died to a Phyrexian, Urza basically did nothing after telling him Hanna had died.
>>94402457>and not legitimately concernedLex?Mr. "I hate superman because he blew off my hair with his super-breath" Luthor?Mr. "I hate superman because he keeps fucking up my dastardly crimes like stealing 40 cakes" Luthor?Mr. "The best way to deal with a potentially world-destroying alien I'm so concerned about is to constantly provoke him" Luthor?That guy?He hates Superman for many reasons, but one of the biggest ones is that Luthor is obsessed with power, and Superman has a power that money can't buy. He has a tremendous inferiority complex, emboldened by how Superman is essentially the only person who he isn't superior to.He's so jealous of Superman that he's tried to steal Superman's powers for himself dozens of times, with several times actually succeeding.
>>94402424>Him having nostalgia for his past and keeping a dummy account around doesn't really change that he's a guy who has his own castle, his own laboratory, his own zoo, his own treasury, is his own personal army, and is also so far beyond monetary concernsYou forgot the dog, he owns a dog as well.
>>94402519The loser has his own private jet.With fists.People were nearly ready to crucify Taylor Swift for traveling so much by private jet, and she can't even naturally fly.
>>94402512Oh hes a complicated character for sure.
>>94402533Golden Age Superman couldn't fly though
>>94402539That comic is from 1978. He could fly as early as the 1940's cartoons.
>>94402468But would you read Urza's treatise on artifice?
>>94402385>Can you source a time when Superman, hell, any Superman comic before 2010, where Superman shows contempt for humanity?Yeah, perfectly normal people who love humanity all the time build themselves literal Fortresses of Solitude.
>>94402575>Wanting to have some alone time in private to jack off means you hate humanitySure thing buddy.
>>94402575This guy never owned a hunting lodge in the woods and it shows
>>94402579There's a scale of difference between "I want some me-time" and "I built myself a literal impenetrable fortress as far away from every human as I could possibly be."
>>94402559Man I forget how bad the silver age was
>>94402589It's almost like there's a megalomaniacal mad scientist out for him or something?
>>94402468>>94402493I kind of how the modern MTG community are such pussies they treat him as this extremely evil monster despite him being the reason the world was saved.You don't have to have perfect good guys be heroes or protagonists
>>94377970acktually...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giTqmQ3crZE
>>94400031>muh p/t is literally how hard you can punch/how hard you can get decked in the face.P/T represents a lot of different defensive and offensive capabilities a character has. For example, the cheerleader has the ability to cause several businesses to leave an area while the bears, if they maul the cheerleader, would get charged with a hate crime and arrested.
>>94371471I love images like this. Absolute Gigachads, their frontal lobes melted from decades of cocaine and hooker acquired veneral diseases, spewing the most insane business goobledegook, all while making ungodly amounts of money from retards. This is what the Founders intended for this great land.
>>94388735WotC puts fags and troons on their cards. That automatically makes them the top Jewish game company.
>>9440259378 was late into the Bronze Age
>>94405342Thanks anon. That is very supercharged of you
>>94405869meh
>>94405342They're so uncanny, honestly I have a hard time believing they're even human, ever thing they do and talk about sounds like some twisted parody of humanity.I guess he really is the American Psycho.
