YOU CHUD!! THIS IS /tg/ - Worldbuilding, video games, porn etc. This board does NOT discuss games and NEVER has!

>>94374319
That's 3.0, retard.

Why miss? It's right there. You can play it, use it.

>>94374359
Everyone plays 5e at best and watches 5e at worst

I miss 4e for the cool classes, like Warlord

>>94374363
My group plays 3.5e

>>94374319
I live the aesthetics and some of the mechanics but 3.5 had just as much wrong with it as it got right. Still leagues better than 5e

Face it though, the days of complex nerdity being the accepted baseline are gone.

>>94374967
>Face it though, the days of complex nerdity being the accepted baseline are gone.
I hate this shit because it feels like the only options are rules-lite NUSR shit for fake grogs, or rules-lite PBTA/FITD shit for theater kids. We're at a point where rules are so streamlined and abstracted for tabletop RPGs that in many cases they're even more simplified than actual tabletop wargames where you're controlling an entire army instead of one fucking guy

>>94374319
Nothing's stopping you from continuing to play it. I do.

Even if there's no new material coming out (though I bet there's lots of third parties still making stuff), there's so much crap there's no way you've encountered all of it, if novelty is what you're after.

>>94374349
So different!

>>94375288
Nothing is going to cover all of the bases.
Power creep in most rpgs ends up bogging the game down with rules lawyers.
Notice as things have gotten streamlined we ended up with LESS THAT GUY stories or even better rules lawyer gripe threads.

>>94374319
3.5 is my favorite edition if you play it at low-levels(1-10). Shit is completely broken at high-levels.

>>94374967
>Still leagues better than 5e
What makes it so much better? I'm not into 5e

>>94374319
We have ongoing general threads for 3.X in specific and intermittent ones for d20 at large.

>>94375740
>though I bet there's lots of third parties still making stuff
They pretty completely moved over to PF1e, so you'll have to backport.

>>94374319
You can still play it

>>94374967
>Face it though, the days of complex nerdity being the accepted baseline are gone.
PF2e is like 80% of what 3.5 was in terms of complexity. I still like 3.5 over it, though. It's my favourite system.

>>94376265
I don't know anything about PF2, but most of 3.5's complexity was in niche stuff. The basic rules were pretty simple. The complexity only came when you were doing grappling, or high-level spells, or weird third party feat chains.

>>94376477
To me the complexity comes from the character building, which is the same with PF2e. 3.5 offers many distinct options like alternate class features, prestige classes, templates, feats, skill tricks and the likes while pf2e has complex feat trees, archetypes and class-specific stuff that are functionally secondary feat categories.

>>94374401
This 4e had some really cool classes. Some autist on 5eg keeps wanting a dedicated gish class. In 3.5 it was duskblade and in 4e it was swordmage. I think duskblade was cooler.

>>94375288
The sentence you are looking for is "Magic Tea Party"

>>94376979
4e swordmage is a meatshield who teleports around to take hits, right? I thought that was pretty cool. But a better game would let you build whatever you wanted by multiclassing.

>>94375740
>Nothing's stopping you from continuing to play it. I do.
I hate answers like this. Yes there is.

I can't play it in real life because I don't know anyone playing it in real life. and can't find anyone willing to play it in real life.

Yes someone can go online, yeah there are enough groups there. That's no how I play this hobby.
And even randos online is a bit of a shit show.

>>94377012
I've found randos online to be a complete retard parade. Especially people from /tg/.

I'm trying to get my group to try 3.5 but many of them have only played 5e and struggled to comprehend 5.5e. One of them can barely make a character if it's not assisted by D&D beyond and we've been playing for 3 years.

>>94376979
>In 3.5 it was duskblade
Hexblade was more Prominent, duskblade was 2nd place.

Both took a back seat to Glaive-Warlocks and Psi-warriors true Melee combat, and even the DMG had Eldritch Knight PrC, which all things considered was "ok."
and then there was abjura- oh me oh my there were OPTIONS for how you specifically wanted to lean or tweek it. There were so many you even had bad things like the Spell-sword PrC.

>>94377000
Like everything in 4e it sounds cool but in practice it's a long drawn out combat that feels more like a board game than a ttrpg. I thought arcane channelling was a good way to mix spells and combat. Dimension hop is a particular favorite of mine especially if your DM has interesting terrain to teleport the enemies into.

>>94377029
3.5 is literally not only the only RPG I know of, but generally the only game, or Thing I know of where it's downcried for have too many options- Which most people call bloat.

Mean while both 4e and 5e individually have surpassed it in options and classes. 5e nearly doubles the amount of races and subraces, and way more books and - well I wouldn't say 5e is praised for the amount of books it has, but it's basically a non-point that no one really cares about.

>>94377029
>Eldritch Knight PrC, which all things considered was "ok."
It was an ok GISH. Power wise, a non retarded build would wipe the other ones off the map.

Shout out to the PF1e Magus.

>>94374401
I am a 3tard but I kinda grew a bit of respect for 4e. I disagree with its fundamental design concepts but I appreciated several ideas and I also think it shares with 3.X games 2 important things
1) high level means High Level
2) players should not be catered as they are utter retards. The design has respect for its audience

>>94377051
>5e nearly doubles the amount of races and subraces, and way more books

Are you sure? 5e only has about 15 books while 3.X had about 66. Over the course of 8 years 3.X was putting out one book of 1st party content every 2 months and this isn't even counting 2nd party stuff like Dragon and Dungeon. In comparison, 5e releases 1,5 books a year.

>>94377051
>5e nearly doubles the amount of races
Looks like somebody didn't check Level Adjustment. Oh sure, it's usually awful, but if you want to be an Illithid you can take the statblock and follow up with the PRC.

>>94377117
>5e only has about 15 books
This list I'm look at has 40+ hardcover books for 5e and it's missing some of the ones I physically own. I don't know if it surpasses 3.x or 4, but it's certainly got more than 15.

>>94377189
Most are adventures and settings. Nothing like the Complete Series or Tome of Battle that add lots of new options and/or classes.

>>94377189
Are you including 2nd and 3rd party books published through the DM's Guild? 3.X publish 66 1st party books and their was tons more published under the d20 license which would further increase the D&D 3.X total even higher without even getting into the 3.PF stuff. Your 40 item list is likely a combined list of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party stuff not just the stuff WotC directly published.

>>94374319
see
>>94374359
It still exists. The only thing stopping you from playing it is the fact you have no friends, no games, and are here whining instead of finding new friends and new games.

>>94374347
>implying it isn't the chuds who want /tg/ to be retarded bait threads and culture war garbage
You can't false-flag someone who's been on this site longer than you've known it existed.

>>94374347
This board should be fucking deleted it's a disgrace.

>>94377012
>I need an answer to my problem
>Here's the answer to your problem
>NO NOT LIKE THAT
Then shut the fuck up and get the fuck out.

>>94377298
No, there should be a global rule that /pol/ posting - any type, normal or lefty - should result in an immediate range ban.

But there won't be, because aznmoot likes the adbux from facebook boomers and xitter retards who don't know what an adblocker is.

>>94377029
I always thought hexblades were terrible compared to duskblades. They're in tier 5 instead of 3. Maybe if you use a very specific build they can be better than an unoptimized duskblade but that's true for fighters too.

>Psi warriors
That's not an arcane gish lmao

Yes there were many options but with duskblade you didn't need to fuck around with prestige classes. It wasn't a very powerful class but few things are compared to Druid/Cleric/Wizard

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>>94375771
>LESS THAT GUY stories or even better rules lawyer gripe threads

And the hobby is worse for it. As much as they might have been hated, That Guy was indicative of a strong hobby that stirred real passions in its fanbase. Nowadays ttrpg are gay cafe simulators where everyone is a quirk chungus that's allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't create "feels bad" in the group, which is mostly just a dogwhistle for "No Chud Behavior Allowed".

I'd rather play a math/rules heavy system with 300 pages of rules arguing with a dude constantly about how even though RAW he can climb up someone's asshole because he his Escape Artist skill is high enough to let him squeeze through a half inch opening that RAI it's ridiculous to let a 9 ft tall 500 pound orc nonmagically reverse vore themselves into a hafling than any of the wannabe Critical Reddit "games" (gay friends simulator) most groups get up to with shitty modern systems.

There's a reason why NOTHING cool or memorable has come out of the hobby since 2014, whereas in 3.e days everyone had a Sir Bearington/100% Of The Soldiers Are Beating Their Wives tier story from their group.

>>94375774
>What makes it so much better?

Literally everything.

>>94374319
I only wish 3.5 was still popular enough to support the secondary games that came from it, so we could finally get fucking Spellbound for Fantasy Craft...

>>94374967
Good. None of the complexity of 3.5 did anything useful or desirable.

>>94375288
Yeah, design theory has improved over the years.

>>94376477
>only came when you actually tried to play the game

>>94377393
better for it, you mean.

>>94377393
there's no such thing as rules as intended.

>>94374967
what's the point of all that complexity when the only classes that matter are single class specialist wizards that ban evocation?

I played tabletop with my friend for days. Often for hours at a time

>>94374363
>Everyone plays 5e

And you simply have to do what "everyone" is doing, hmm?

>>94380078
Yes, retard.

>>94377399
So, for example, the fact that you can turn invisible simply by owning a tower shield?

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>>94374319
I've been playing it since 2022 and it's so fucking fun holy shit.
The party has an average level of 12 or 13, and shit gets whacky.
My character has so many things it can do and needs to take keep track of between skills, class features, feats, magic items, etc, that I use a google sheet that I've been slowly automating to account for everything. That's the exact kind of autism that speaks to me on a fundamental level.
Our DM loves the fact that creatures use the same exact rules as the PCs, so a PC has a class or a feat or ability, a creature can have that without needing to handwave. It's a very lego-like kind of system without achieving the level of extreme granularity of something like GURPS.
I think the fact that I began playing when the game was already old is such a boom, there are so many compiled resources and digital tools to help players and GMs alike, I imagine playing it in it's heyday was a wholly different experience.
Also, the fact that there's a whole ass 3.5e general (>>94271809) that resurrected since I started playing is pretty nice.
Coming from 5e, I'm having so much more fun with the system itself.
The funny part is, I think that, since al the fiddly bits actually get me more engaged with the game, I've been improving as a roleplayer since I began playing. I feel like I'm having a more complete TTRPG experience.

>>94374319
14 years and still playing
new editions come and go
but 3.5 stays

D&D should have a tree based skill system and points instead of level.

>>94374363
I am playing 3.5/pf1
>>94374967
>Face it though, the days of complex nerdity being the accepted baseline are gone.
i think quite the opposite.
The simplification was meant to speed up gameplay. However going forward, more and more tables will have an ai assistant at the table that can be fed complex rulesets and take over as much bookkeeping and crunching as DM and players wish to plug in to their games.
Like players want to suddenly chase down a carriage? previously DM would have to come up with rules for that on the spot, but we now have the capability of an AI going
>there are 7 different third party materials that contain rules for chase and pursuit in your trove back up across the 4 selected system, which one would you like to adopt for this instance?
I am waiting for these LLMs to become a bit more user friendly and easier to setup locally and without any silly censorships before I spend time to include them, but I foresee a glorious age of crunch heavy gaming. its only a matter of time

>>94380835
I'm so jelly of people who began playing a long time ago.
Alas, it is what it is, I'm still having fun.

>>94380893
Classes are kind of like skill trees given how multiclass works, if you think about it.
Sure, the trees are a mess, but they exist, sort of.
That said, look at what the cosmere rpg is doing. I think the basics of that system are pretty god damn cool, and eventually the company that developed it will release a setting agnostic version too, supposedly.

>>94380896
>there are 7 different third party materials that contain rules for chase and pursuit in your trove back up across the 4 selected system, which one would you like to adopt for this instance?
You can already kinda do this with foundry and that module that makes custom skill checks. Just have each model as a different macro that you can look up on the compendium search bar.

>>94374363
Everyone plays 5e here too, and yet whenever I gather a group for a path 1e / dnd 3.5e it gets filled in minutes. Initiative, nigger.

>>94381108
yeah but right now you have to actually do your searching through all the pdfs, parse those models into macros and set all that up yourself. for a relatively rare scenario its still easier for me to just do that manually.

I expect within a few more years there will be personal, locally hosted assistants that can do that for me on the stop and than not only does that mean crunch is back in business but it also means all the systems printed in the past can now be quickly fed to the ai assistants and cherrypicked right at the table.

>>94377393
>And the hobby is worse for it.
t. That Guy
>As much as they might have been hated, That Guy was indicative of a strong hobby that stirred real passions in its fanbase.
No, That Guy was an obnoxious cunt who wanted to ruin the fun for everyone else. Always has been, always will be, and the best thing to do with those sorts of players is isolate them from the hobby so they have to suffer each other or go find some other hobby to get bullied out of.
>Nowadays ttrpg are gay cafe simulators where everyone is a quirk chungus that's allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't create "feels bad" in the group
You wouldn't know, of course, because you don't play games and parrot shit you read by other people who do not play games.
>I'd rather be a homosexual autist who can only think of climbing into men's assholes
You are 100000000000% more homosexual than anything you claim reddit does.
>There's a reason why NOTHING cool or memorable has come out of the hobby since 2014
THat's got to do more with the internet going to shit because of /pol/ garbage, particularly 4chan. Like 1% of the posters on this board play games these days, the other 99% are nogames tourists. Also, there's stuff that still crops up; things like "orcs are black people", "WOTC hates racemixing", "23 rules every GM should have at their table", that sort of thing.

I have plenty of stories and in-jokes with my groups, but I don't share them here because all this board will do is call them fake and gay and then some faggot will go on a 3 page rant about how I'm an SJW because I'm not a fucking neo-nazi.

>>94379871
This is objectively false, as someone who has made his own tabletop games it's very easy to think to yourself that something is obvious, but someone else might not see it that way.

>>94380893
That's basically what 5e did with Subclasses.

>>94377297
> culture war garbage
It is like when mods delete conversations that humble troons and commies? So much for culture and war.

>>94374347
fpbp

>>94377393
> No Chud Behavior Allowed
Sometimes I imagine America like some kind of wonderland where 90% of people are gay and troon weirdos and that is why you can't find and run games to your liking. But the I read...
> arguing with a dude constantly about how even though RAW he can climb up someone's asshole
...and you sound like literally a typical that guy who stretch table-top and video game logic onto TTRPGs.

>>94380893
No, too many game dynamics lean on the class+level guide rails for that to function well as something remotely recognizable as "D&D". You'd have to drastically reshape all sorts of things, probably even more than 4e did, and if it takes being rid of even more sacred cows than that...

Mind, you could have such in addition to a much simpler class system serving as the locked-in "core function" of your character adhering to that structural class+level demand, but there's a reason why most character generation devolution attempts are build-a-class rather than point-by-point progression.

>>94381222
>222
Exactly. Sometimes it's an issue with the wording, sometimes it's an issue with the idea itself that had a hole you didn't foresee, etc.
Every rule written has an intention behind it that might be mistranslated when going from the brain to the page, or just be incomplete from the get go.

>>94377012
Are you really surrounded by people who will play 5e and only 5e?

>>94381222
Good job missing the point.

The only way you can discover a person's intent is by reading what they wrote.

If the words in the book make you think the author intends X, then you think the rules say X. That's what meaning is.

Whatever you think rules as written is, is what you think the author intended. If the words in the book make you receive a meaning from the author, then that is what you think the words mean.

>>94374319
I don't miss it...

Because I run a game in it every week.

You know you can do that, right? Just... play a game? Nobody will stop you. It's not like the 5.5 chuds will come arrest you or something.

>he doesn't know

>>94374319
Yeah, I should've played it more when it was current but that was when I was trying and ultimately failing to be a normie.
>>94388765
You need other people for that though, and playing online always turns into a burden once the novelty wears off since you don't have the fun atmosphere of being around people in person.

>>94385147
What someone intended isn't always what they wrote. Falling back on death of the author is a bitch move.

>>94389122
Im not referring to death of the author. I said that the only way to communicate intent is by using language, which is correct. You don't have any more information about the author's intent tha does anyone else who has read the same words as you.

>>94377393
>even though RAW
I would allow it. Rediculous RAW is the best.
You act like Physics and Society are coherent and logical in comparison.

>>94384881
Is that really all that surprising?

>>94390023
there's no E in ridiculous.

>>94374319
How much of this missing is just nostalgia tinted glasses over actual game mechanics that are good?

>>94374319
solved game lol
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Wish_and_the_Word_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)

>>94374319
...like a screaming case of herpes.

>>94375288
I hate the OSR so much, it’s the most creatively bankrupt community. They are literally that Buzz Lightyear meme personified and the less said about rules-lite “games” the better. Where are the late 3.5 retro clones already?

>>94375771
>Notice as things have gotten streamlined we ended up with LESS THAT GUY stories or even better rules lawyer gripe threads.
I argue the quality of players as gotten worse, there are so many 5etards that still dont know the fucking rules.

>>94400322
Rules lite is superior.

>>94403026
If you’re a theater kid that doesn’t playing games then yes.

>>94403026
Obviously. But, by the very nature of their ethos, the less said about them, the better.

>>94403044
>>94403047
Swing and a miss.

>>94403026
No.

>>94403156
Yes.

>>94403156
Yes

bump :)

>>94374319
i've been wrangled into playing 3.x games multiple times. always hated it.

>>94374347
Do you do anything besides complain? You always talk about "nogames" but all you do is bitch all of the time, if you really want to make difference, wouldn't it make more sense to talk about games instead of complaining? You're probably going to call me a newfag nogames tourist or whatever but wouldn't what I mentioned make more sense?

>>94414668
What did you hate about it? When was the last time you played?

>>94374319
I was born in a poor eastern european country. And we have hever heard about tRPGs, like DnD. But me and friends loved all kinds of CRPGS and similar games. We were fans of KotOR, Diablo II, Icewind Dale (we didn't understand it was a DnD setting). We've read a lot of fantasy and shared books between us.

There was a local gaming magazine called "Shpil!". It issued a special about history and current state of Roleplaying Games.

There we learned what "rolepleaying" means and what DnD is. We've been completely captured by the idea that we need to find rules somehow and play it. We've been taking about it all the time.

It took moths for us to find a DnD 3.5 core book finally. It was so amazing time.

And today, ±18 years later cover design of 3.5 books sends shivers down my spine. So sweet memories, so... intimate? Personal? Anyway, i love it and will take it with me to the grave.

>>94414668
I’d happily swap. Jackass motherfucker.

I only DM in 3.5/3 because my party is going through a grueling marathon where death is a real possibility any second. You play 5e because you want to jerk each other's OC's off.

>>94377021
My best group ever was online. We were together for almost a decade, played over 30 systems together. That group also got ruined by the inclusion of a woman. Go figure.
My current IRL group plays online becaue we don't have the time to drive. We'd rather spend the hour it'd take for everyone to gather, then another to go back. to just hop online and actually play.

>>94419307
>My best group ever was online. We were together for almost a decade
Were they randoms at first?

>>94389087
nigga just read the fucking guide that raggi made about how to find a group irl. sperg

>>94377043
Every bit of board game mechanics that exists in 4e was present in 3.x. 4e just streamlined the game term "five foot square" down to "square". Attacks of Opportunity? Standardized in 3.x. Tactical movement and flanking? A 3.x thing. You can pretend to play in theater of the mind but the game started off being very particular about filling in graph paper to make maps and it hasn't ever really lost that part completely.

>>94376979
>This 4e had some really cool classes. Some autist on 5eg keeps wanting a dedicated gish class. In 3.5 it was duskblade and in 4e it was swordmage. I think duskblade was cooler.

>>94377029
Duskblade was hit things hard with a spell channelled through your sword, Hexblade was a sword guy who could also debuff people.
And then there was Mystic Ranger with the Sword of the Arcane Order feat, which for the first half of its levels is basically a wizard with full BAB and some minor ranger abilities

>>94374319
Sometimes I also get the hankerin' for it, but then I remember the bloated skills and back out. I wish there was a retroclone or something that fixes it, but everyone just releases their B/X houserules and calls it a game.

>>94424250
If you don't want to multiclass, then a Sorcerer who takes both the Battle Sorcerer (Unearthed Arcana) + Stalwart Sorcerer (Complete Mage) ACFs has average BAB, proficiency in two martial weapons, Weapon Focus as a bonus feat, casting in light armor, and effectively a d14 Hit Die.
With Wings of Cover being one of the best tanking abilities in the game.

And then there was Arcane Swordsage, which was half-written and no DM ever allowed because treating spells as maneuvers is nuts.

>>94424276
If the skills are the biggest detractor, it's not hard to do some combining. Listen and Spot into Perception, Tumble and Use Rope into Acrobatics, etc.

3.5 has never been much of a skill based game anyways. Most of the feats and option that enhance skill use just make them combat viable

>>94377051
>Mean while both 4e and 5e individually have surpassed it in options and classes. 5e nearly doubles the amount of races and subraces, and way more books
>5e
>The game with a single digit number of books and like <20 races, <50 if you count setting specifics
>more books than 3e (literally hundreds of books)
>more races than 3e (literally hundreds of 1HD LA0 races thousands and thousands of playable races not even getting into templates)

>>94380531
>The funny part is, I think that, since al the fiddly bits actually get me more engaged with the game, I've been improving as a roleplayer since I began playing
Obviously. It's the only(?) game with any sense of versimilitude because there actually are rules for how things work instead of having your friend try to spitball about real world physics in a game that obviously pays no heed to real world physics like you did in AD&D.

>>94377393
You can climb into people's assholes (and it's RAI, you can grapple people 2 size categories smaller then you, why would someone who is squeezing into a tight space for a diminuitive creature not be able to be carred along?) but the bullshit about using enlarge person to burst through them with a strength check wouldn't do anything. First of all, even if we pretend it worked, bursting through creatures digestive systems violently in D&D is well, well, well established in the rules. It doesn't do any additional damage besides what is inflicted by the attack. Secondly, people aren't leather. RAW, you can't really destroy corpses (specifics notwithstanding ofc) because they don't actually stop following creature rules so they can go to -NAN hitpoints and still not ever be 'destroyed'.

>>94397920
Wish and the word isn't really a solution since
A) the technology has improved so much since then it isn't funny that's like putting a 1980 chess supercomputer against a modern machine
B) It's assuming a level 20 character with full WBL, whereas modern solutions kick in much, much, much earlier. The whole point of the omniscifier was to come online at an earlier level than the (at-the-time) current punpun build, and that's been bashed down to level 1 in the default setting thanks to pazuzu.

You're clearly a faggot because 3.5 being a solved game is what brings so much joy to playing it. There's never the whole "oh I should play optimally or I'm throwing" vs. "oh I shouldn't disrupt the group's powerlevel" problem in 3.5 because the gentleman's agreement prohibits the former.

>>94417274
Are you illiterate?