you do have your NPC enemies run from combat or surrender if they're losing the fight or the fight was already lost from the start, right? unless they have 0 free will.also your players aren't retarded to fight to the bitter end for some reason?)also if you do morale damage do you do it with a system or just wing it?
>>94379158
I guess morale systems make sense in wargames where you want to have hard rules and various actions and abilities affecting it.In ttrpg's, the GM may as well decide that the enemies are fleeing based on how many they have lost and based on the players actions.
>>94379158Depends on the enemy. I don't envision demons surrendering to anything, or fanatical cultists, honorbound warriors, etc. Most players are power-gamers so they mentally don't comprehend loss until it happens and usually will quit the game if they encounter defeat or an encounter that is too difficult. Players won't retreat because they're conditioned by modern games into believing they are special and unkillable and can beat everything. Most RPG players today will walk away from a game where a fight is challenging and risks death.
>>94379325Players don't retreat because nobody wants to be the first one to look cowardly or "abandon" the party.
>>94379261I don't see why this should be random
>>94379158In my group, once more then half of the enemies in an encounter are bloodied, our DM will roll to see if they attempt to flee. I don't know if they're rolling against something, or if it's an odds or evens thing, I've never asked. It's also generally only for chaff encounters, boss types are generally more motivated, dogged or blind to retreating.
>>94379158I generally wing it. Make whatever the equivalent of a Will check is when things are dire but they are not totally donefore. Depending on how merciful the players appear NPCs may surrender.And sufficiently intelligent NPCs can just choose to retreat from a combat without moral if things look like they are about to go ass-up and they don't want to die.
>>94379559To simulate there being many underlying factors that the GM shouldn't need to adjudicate every single time
>>94379158Players are generally too retarded to retreat and regroup, I even had some guy shoot at fleeing npc allies, soviet commissar style.For normally intelligent creatures, like bandits and such, I'll have them flee or try to if that's what make more sense (and possibly try again later), not sure any roll is needed.
>>94379559Because making a judgement call for every singe monster in every single encounter is a waste of time and in the end if effectively random from the player's perspective anyway.
>>94379158Yes, my NPCs will flee whenever they feel like it and you won't get XP or loot if you let them get away.
>>94379158I like having some intelligent enemies who fight to the death but I try to have a reason. In the weakest case, it's because it's an obscure monstrous humanoid with a brutal dehumanizing culture, and you'll never actually see that culture but trust me its bad. In ne of these threads someone noted that animals fighting to the death was a major sign that SOMETHING WAS WRONG and I think they're totally right. It would be fun to hit them with ye olde suicidal wolves first and describe their unconditional aggression, then run normal (shy, opportunistic, more likely to stalk the party for 3 days than attack outright) animals later and just see if they notice the difference.
>>94379158I'm often wondering what would make sense, actually.When would... say... your average group of bandits starts fleeing? After the first casualty? As soon as they see that the group isn't just showing flashy weapons but actually know how to use them well?What about wolves? Would they flee after first blood? I mean hunting isn't very sustainable if your prey has a big chance to kill you.Pic unrelated
>>94379158honestly, D&D 4e/5e are the only TTRPG systems I've played where it's not... rocket tag that's done in like 2 full trips around the table (and the ones that aren't usually are coupled with a system that gives you stacking penalties as you get more damaged), so the enemies never really have the opportunity to even consider runningand the ability to run away in those two games are more of a binary can they/can't they, ex either the enemy has better move speed/enhanced move like a teleport and can get away, or they have the same/less mobility than the players and thus it's just suicide by another name in most cases so the entire discussion just kind of becomes moot for my games
>>94379158I just follow the guidelines in the 5e DMG, but make it a contest of Intimidation vs. WIS save, instead of just a flat DC 10 save. A single enemy makes its save vs. the Intimidation of the nearest PC, while a group of enemies makes its save vs. the best Intimidation in the party.
>>94382698>taking longer to make a judgement than it takes for the dice to stopngmi
>>94379158>you do have your NPC enemies run from combat or surrender if they're losing the fight or the fight was already lost from the start, right? unless they have 0 free will.yes, it's part of the system
>>94385850If you're going to choose to think that little about it, you're effectively doing it at random anyway.
>>94382835>When would your average group of bandits starts fleeing?>What about wolves?+1 for that questionShouldn't bandits start fleeing basically immediately, as soon as the PCs draws their swords?
>>94379626If it's 4th ed (And it sounds like it is if you're using bloodied mechanics) it depends on the monster. I tend to just use a saving throw once they hit whatever their trigger is, repeated if the situation changes such as an ally retreats.Additionally, even for fearless foes if the fight is clearly over I wrap it up. That one skeleton isn't gonna do damage or use up any resources so why not? "You dispatch the remaining foes in short order" can save a lot of time and you do it for other encounter types anyway.Some systems have morale for players built in with stuff like stress and sanity, but for dnd I just let them do whatever. You wanna run headlong down a dragons gob more power to you.
>>94385962That could be kind of cool if you can think of a way to do a "Chase down these arrow slinging scumbags who keep starbursting into the woods" kind of encounter. Like chavs chucking rocks at coppers then legging it, but in D&D.
>>94379325>most RPG playersI get the feeling you don't play with any RPG players, let alone "most" of them. Stop taking 4chan ragebait to be reality.
>>94379158Yes, I use morale checks. Yep: my players ran away from a fight the week before last night's session. I find it utterly ridiculous that badguys wouldn't run away. But more than anything? It's a way to quickly end a fight that's too easy.>>94379294>In ttrpg's, the GM may as well decide that the enemies are fleeing based on how many they have lost and based on the players actions.Sure. The GM may also decide whether the enemies hit. How much damage they do. If the players hit them. How much damage they take. But rolls are the "game" part of RPG.
kill yourself OP
>>94382835>>94385962Bandits should immediatelly disperse, try to stay out of melee range, flee (individually) when injured, and rout (as a group) when number of casualties taken outweights casualties inflicted.Wolves should not engage if party sticks together, gank on isolated party member when opportunity arises, rout on death of pack leader or when under 75% strength.
>>94379158This freak has no neck
>>94392383Sloping shoulders as well
>>94382835In general GM should focus more on coherrent modelling than game balance. No one sane is going to attack if they aren't reasonably certain they are going to win and when facing unknown target they also should have a some sort of plan to disengage if things go sideways. Animals are even less keen on getting hurt and should almost never engage the party on their own initiative in normal conditions.
>>94386741Based. And have to agree with you. Way too much has been on the RP and not on the G part of the hobby. If I wanted to sit around and do a circlejerk I'd do that.I use morale when appropriate. Certain intelligent enemies, like Demons, that can't die unless killed in their iwn world, don't care. Obviously depends in the Demon type. Those masochistic war types will just rush in and die and be sent up eventually. The smarter infiltratiors don't and will flee at first sight. I've made a simple subsystem, if for my own use only. I've seen objectively better ones out there, but what I made is the one I prefer.
>>94379158>I am trying to re-invent the wheel, guys!Morale of NPCs are a thing since mid-90s.
What's the best morale system you've seen?
>>94385943No, I can think quite a lot in a few seconds. Maybe you should try using your brain.
>>94386741How do you decide which aspects of reality require rolling?
>>94379158I don't do explicit morale damage per say, but I do have a psychological damage system for my system, but its more for supernatural effects and general attempts at directly convincing than mental attrition due to combat. That said, my enemies do retreat, presuming they seem to be losing, and similarly presuming they are in a position/mental state to retreat.
>>94379158>also your players aren't retarded to fight to the bitter end for some reason?)A big part of the problem here is that in most RPGs, your speed is set and moving costs no resources, so there's no point in running away.
>>94386741Normally, the GM does choose what actions the NPCs take.
>>94398427How do you decide which aspects of reality require rolling?
>>94401351Warhammer, unironically. No reason it doesn't port over easily to anything ttrpg related.
>>94379158Depends on the situation. Something protecting it's home will fight harder than say something looking to make a quick score.You could make a table for it, like half it's hit points and it starts looking to run, have things make saves versus this and that while factoring in the other.Easiest to just use common sense. Sadly, beating it into people has went out of the cultural norms.
