Knight Edition >Banshttps://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/august-26-2024-banned-and-restricted-announcement>NewsThe 2025 MagicCon and Pro Tour Schedule:https://www.magic.gg/news/the-2025-magiccon-and-pro-tour-scheduleMetagame Mentor: The Scariest Standard Strategies in Duskmourn:https://www.magic.gg/news/metagame-mentor-the-scariest-standard-strategies-in-duskmourn>Spoilershttp://www.magicspoiler.com/https://mythicspoiler.com/CONSTRUCTED RESOURCES>Current meta, complete with deck listshttps://www.mtgtop8.com/https://www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/>Build and share casual deckshttps://deckstats.net/https://tappedout.net/CUBE RESOURCES>Build and share Cubeshttps://cubecobra.com/landingCARD RESOURCES>Search engineshttps://scryfall.com/https://mtg.wtf/>Proxy a deck or a cube for cheaphttps://www.makeplayingcards.com/https://pastebin.com/9Xj1xLdM>Play online for freehttps://untap.in/https://dr4ft.info/>What is EDH?https://vocaroo.com/1ihc21gJLBh1>Previously:>>94383138>TQWhat creature type you wish we saw more of?
tqpest
I have been an anti-doomer against you doomer faggots for nearly two decades nowBut I am not gonna lie, I need them to back off this UB shit as soon as possible. I am hopeful of it happening in 2028 or so
Are there any creature decks aside goblins left? In pioneer or modern.
TQ: Astartes, Doctor, Cyberman, Dalek, Detective, Doctor, Time Lord ,Necron, Alien, Balloon, Clown, Employee, Guest, and Performer,
>>94388853Cats got a new lease of life thanks to the Squire Arahbo. How competitive are they? No idea.Zombies got new lord, maybe some brew rise up.I also play Slivers. Slivers are fun.
>>94388868HahahaYou are being facetious :)
>The Sire of Seven Deaths is the last card in my draft deckI have never felt worse in my entire life.
>>94388853>ModernMerfolk still technically exists but is like a tier 3 by now.And Eldrazi are a thing people have been tinkering with>PioneerUW Spirits are to Pioneer as Merfolk were to old modern, a tier 2 tempo deck that can put up a fight, but there is no reason to play it over Izzet Phoenix.There was also a GW angels list that was coming up, but then a much more efficient WG Generalist Collected Company deck showed up and sucked all the air out of the room.
Got a collectors booster for my birthday and just ignited an urge to gamble...what collector boosters are most worth it?
>>94388760TQ: Mouse...or any the very least I wish mouse and rat were synonymous
>TQ: KavuFTK will return at some point.
>>94388868Agree with Clown.
>>94388760>TQMyrOne of the biggest shames in magic is that the Myr are intrinsically tied to Mirrodin.They fulfill both a mechanical and IP friendly niche. Those being a tribe of colorless mana dorks and artifact support that synergize with their own iconic cycle of 3 drop 1/1 mana dorks for each color that can also serve a generic mana fixing for draft enviroments. And that they fulfill the same niche as Universes Within Gnomes (Small artifact creatures) but without the baggage out outside of IP considerations and that UB Gnomes already have broken that flavor rule.And they are self replicating robots, all you need to say is that a Planeswalker saw the shit going down, grabbed a few of them to save something, and that because they are robots could endure a trip through the blind eternities.
>>94389051*2 not 3 drop
How trash is this decklist for a sultai commander player looking to get into Standard on Arena(maybe into physical?):https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6562952#paper
>>94389081But have you watched his video?
>>94389097I'm probably walking into something, but whose video?
>>94389110https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP7X756te34the author of this deck
>>94389110Having clicked the link, the deck is made by SaffronOlive, meaning the deck likely has a video by SaffronOlive on youtube where you can see it in action.
>>94388790Magic is going to die and is worse than ever before since day 2, let's make a meme format like premodern, pre war of the spark that's more niche than grand archive.
>>94388588That was last year this year MTG dropped to 7th.
>>94389119>>94389121Oh I didnt realize it was a youtuber, thought it was just some random joes deck (hence why I ran here to get the seal of approval). I'll take a look through his videos, thanks.
>>94388650>>94388756How do you not know how big Pokemon is? Are you some out of touch boomer or something?
>>94389156I know Pokemon is massive. I just never got convinced that people actually play the card game and the whole TCG is composed more of collectors than actual players.
>>94389175People like the cards, no one plays it. That doesn't mean the market doesn't exist. It's a TCG, when I first got into Magic I didn't even play it for the longest time, I just liked the cards and collected them. I never played pokemon either as a child.Why does that seem strange to you?
>>94389149we lost him lads..
>>94388790>They back off UB in 2028>Every format is still plagued by the last 10+ UB setsIt's over buddy, either you accept that you'll lways have to deal with UB, or you move on with your life and go find a better hobby
>>94388209this reminded me about the video aids did 5 years agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ognbdQoKpDsI think we can make something work today, probably a golgari food deck instead of scaled though>>94388272>Why isn't Modern Affinity/Hardened Scales viable anymore?scales is definitely still viable if you're a specialisthttps://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6736228#paperhttps://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6748634#paperhttps://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6746750#paperall of these challenge top8s are from this monthaffinity is a harder sell because of how linear it is, you often stomp or get stomped, there's not much you can do about it>What does it need to escape Tier 3/4 hell?I don't consider tier 3/4 to be hell, it's easier to dodge hate when you're there, it's the same reason dredge will randomly spike a challenge every now and then because people simply forget about bringing hard graveyard hatebut if you want to hear it, they probably need mox opal to be unbanned
>>94389015Kirkostaculis plane would be kino as fuck.
>>94389193Pokemon definitely does have its players, but its market share is WAY bigger for collectors than, say, YGO or MTG.
>>94389408Well who would every want to collect those ugly ygo drawings.
>Really like the look of Phyrexians>From last year>About to go out of Standard rotationWell that blows, Eldrazi look cool but it'd for Modern and Modern is apparently completely bullshit atm.
>>94388760>What creature type you wish we saw more of?They need to put the Epic ability on a Kindred spell so we can have an Epic Gamer.
>>94389425up until very recently yugioh had consistently better art than magic (no classic mtg art doesn't count they haven't made that in decades)
>>94388760>tqI want a>monogreen angel
>>94389504Best you can get is a BG one
>>94389523>>94389504Make your own.
>>94389539Interesting card!
>>94389474lollmaoEven if that were true it still wouldn't make it worthy of being collected.
>>94389572being "worthy" of being collected is very subjectivesome dude I know collects every depiction of bolas even though half of them look like hot asssome people like to collect foils even though they are an almost objective downgrade to non-foils
>>94389504i gots you
>>94389474>yugioh had consistently better art than magicWeebshit is the lowest form of art
>>94389615begone, prajeet
>>94389618>doesn't know the difference between art style and subject matterTypical low IQ weeb
be the quality of art as it may but the gameplay is terrible. I really don't get the appeal of ygo. it's like every deck is a tribal deck with a combo finish. very restrictive and boring design
>>94389636it's both, the art style of that card is slop cgi
>>94389618really dislike this art, it's like they photoshopped some random dude from a 21st century university campus onto some high fantasy clothes in a lab
>>94389652yugioh's focus on tribal is one of the things I like about itbut literally every deck is a combo deck yea
>>94389583Correct but the value of art is not subjective and ygo's was never good.
>>94389659It's not "both" anything is better that weebshit
>>94389652Pokemon's gameplay also seemed terrible.Every deck just felt like fat creatures + basic land + 10 Wheel of Fortune effects.
>>94389725lol
>>94389722>Correct but the value of art is not subjective
>>94389729>t.
>>94389734>bro Michelangelo is not objectively better than ygo cards
tranime is pretty gay nglat least magic art still looks like real art even with all the dei stuff
>>94389778A correct statement in greentext. You retards think that "objectively" is a prayer of truthfulness, it's not, it's a specific word with a specific meaning.
>>94389778lol
>>94389796You can easily measure the value of art, uneducated swine.
>>94389806>You can easily measure the value of artyou, objecively, cannot
>>94389794black angels are annoyingbut with UB I expect the color matching of cards to get even more retarded(yeah anime is gay btw)
>>94389408I think Pokemon has way more players than people realize especially with how wide a reach their leagues are at all age brackets. Especially with consistant numbers at regionals and especially worlds in the competitive scene, its just the collector whales that make the most noise. T.played comp for a few years before my LGS shut down due to rent spikes
>>94389814>technique>harmony>composition>color theory>golden ratioUneducated swine.
>>94389837you have measured the effort put into the art's compositionyou have not measured the value of the art
>>94389806You can objectively measure the amount of any given sale once the sale has happened, that's an objective measurement, because it's just a number and not a subjective value. If you're trying to measure the actual value of the piece then your measurement is subjective by definition, because that's what subjective means, it doesn't mean "wrong" or "baseless" it just means "dealing with worth or value". Money doesn't have objective value, nothing has objective value, value is subjective.
>>94389342Dominions? In my mtg thread? NO WAY
>>94389837Retard.>>94389845>you have measured the effort put into the art's compositionlol, no, not really.Also you can measure subjective things all you want, they just won't be objective measurements.
>>94389794I won't say it's all gay but it's definitely cringe.
FDN set constructed is fun bros...
>>94389993So's the Limited. It's a perfect set. It truly is.
>>94389973anime was a mistake
>>94389863I wasn't talking about the monetary value... I can't believe I have to explain this, I thought it was self explanatory that I meant artistic value.>>94389845Embarrassing post.>>94389871>you can measure subjective thingsYou want to convince people that this painting has the same artistic value as ygo cards?Why not study ygo cards in art school then?Hilarious.
>>94390018Artistic value is subjective, retard. It is not objective and cannot be objectively measured. You can count dollars and cents and write down the number, that's an objective measurement, but you can't objectively measure the value of a dollar. And dollar values are always changing because value is subjective.
>>94390018>I can't believe I have to explain this, I thought it was self explanatory that I meant artistic value.congrats, then you've gone from something that has some hypothetical objective rooting to something that has absolutely zero objective rootingabstract modern art IS actually taught in art school
>>94389993>>94390001it is by far the best coreset experience I've ever had, even if I missed out on most of them (my first coreset was M19)
>>94390067Core sets were always the butt of the joke, there's a reason they removed them like three times.Having a core set but permanent which was literally the original intention of Unlimited fixes most of the problems of them, but Foundations being an actually good set certainly helps as well.
>up until very recently yugioh had consistently better art than magic>a-actually art has no objective value
>>94390102congrats anon you cracked the case!art is an inherently subjective medium!though I see you dropped any pretense of academia when you seemingly realized how retarded you were beingnow that is an embarrassing post
>>94390102it's ok to say something is subjectively betterstill not what objective meansreading the dictionary explains the word
>>94390107I'm not the guy you're debating with weeb just laughing at your backpedaling
>>94390041You keep saying this and yet you cannot provide me with a single good reason to study ygo cards over Leonardo in art school.>>94390054Institutions have been subverted. That is why they teach people that the value of art is subjective now. Because it's not according to liberal and progressive values to admit that some art is superior to other and by reflex that some cultures are superior to others.But if you want to learn actual technique you will not study ygo cards, you will study Leonardo.
>>94390113>backpedalingmaybe the other anon is right, i'd suggest you look at a dictionary but you don't even seem to be able to comprehend english
>>94390102I don't actually care about ygo art. I care about magic art a little bit but not enough to argue about it. But I will jump on anyone who misuses the word "objectively".
>>94390118>That is why they teach people that the value of art is subjective now.>nowlollmao
>>94390118Art has been subjective (and has been taught to be subjective) since before your grandparents were alive pablo.
>>94390119>the damage controlHow can you say something is consistently better if there's no objective standard to evaluate it?
>>94390131because art is a subjective, personal tasteanon here seems to love cgi slop with prajeetsi like beautiful usage of colors and characters, so yugioh has, for most of its existence at least, had consistently better art than mtghope this helps!
>>94390118>You keep saying this and yet you cannot provide me with a single good reason to study ygo cards over Leonardo in art school.I actually can (it's because YGO makes money), I just chose not to because it's a stupid smokescreen and it has nothing to do with your abuse of the word "literally". Retard.>Institutions have been subverted. That is why they teach people that the value of art is subjective now. lol>liberal and progressive valueslmao
>>94390137>CONSISTENTLY BETTER>i-it's personal tastePathetic
>>94390142it's ok anon, they still make some cgi slop for you!don't forget your FAT, BADASS, and BLACK """women"""
>>94390143It's like you weebs enjoying embarrassing yourselves
>>94390131>How can you say something is consistently better if there's no objective standard to evaluate it?How can you eat apples while having black hair? This is a nonsense question. "Objective standards" have nothing to do with what's better or worse."Drinking bleach will kill you', this is objectively true. "Drinking bleach is worse than drinking water", this is a subjective statement, because any use of "better" or "worse" makes it a subjective statement.Retard.
>>94390147Drinking bleach is worse for your health than drinking water, this is an objective statement. You're not even trying to sound honest.
>>94390142Enjoy your ontological crisis. For what it's worth, it never lasts forever, subjective things are the things that actually matter and eventually you're going to make your peace with that.
>>94390157>for your healththat wasn't part of the statement, anon!i know english is a hard language to grasp, but I believe you can do it!
>>94390158I'm not the one sperging out because someone made fun of my shit taste online
>>94390157Health is subjective. Something can be subjective even if we all agree on it, that's what I was trying to teach you by using the bleach example. Agreeing isn't what makes something objective.
>>94390164Because anon is dishonest and thought omitting context made it a valid argument weeb
>>94390171>Health is subjective I know this is a fa/tg/uys thread but still
>>94390165I know, it's got to be more than a bit shameful to say you like this art.
>>94390180I don't
>>94390175Health is based on what we want out of our bodies and out of our lives, and objective statements can't be based on wants or plans or desires, the fact that we all basically agree on what makes someone more or less healthy doesn't make it objective.
>>94390180kinnan genuinely looks like the kind of person who would try to relativize aesthetics and health on 4chan
>>94390175it is yesif you want to attempt to be a retard and nitpick over definitions you will get definitions, not what you "feel" like words mean
>>94390186Tell me that when you're dying of heart disease by age 30
>>94390193Post physique
>>94390180I actually do like that art and I always did. I don't like the mechanics, his flavor says "Fat kid with unlimited pokemon friends" but his mechanics say "this guy leads a circle of druids and they herd moxen". Honestly I don't think there are a lot of people who dislike the art style or the execution, I think people hate him for being fat and happy with a gay haircut.
>>94390195for some people that is desirable!is it desirable to most people? no, but it is not an objective statementobjectivity is a very specific thing, and can only apply to very specific situationsSix is a larger number than five>>94390199I'm 6'1" and 185 pounds, you'll have to go to one of the gay porn boards if you want anything else.
>>94390195>health is subjective because it's based on what we want>YEA WELL YOU WANT TO BE HEALTHYYes, retard, most of us want to be healthy.
>>94390210You're a fat Mexican manlet until you post physique sorry>>94390212>people want to be healthy because it's subjectively better to be healthy lol
>>94390219I'm from louisiana so you aren't too far off, but sorry, guess geography isn't your speed either.
>>94390224Just giving you a heads up fatbro
>>94390219Everything that matters is subjective, eventually you'll make your peace with that.
>>94390242I don't disagree that subjective values matter
>>94390122>>94390126>>94390138Do you also fuck fat chicks because beauty is subjective?Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.Some art is good, some art is bad.
>>94390278Being good is always subjective. Being bad is always subjective. You don't have to like it.
>>94390278>Do you also fuck fat chicks because beauty is subjective?no I fuck guys because I can't stand to be near womenbut some people do have a fat fetish, and some people do think that fat chicks are """beautiful""", even though most would disagree
>>94390283This, so much this. Like raping children. It's subjective, you can't say it's objectively good or bad.
>>94390310Morality is indeed a social construct, many groups and cultures in the past have seen it as an honorable or noble thing!Thanks for finally understanding, anon.
>>94390294>>94390325>obese gay pedo tranime freaks outing themselves in a magic the gathering threadlol not even surprised
>>94390294>>94390294I think there's a kind of collective intelligence that tells us that fat is undesirable (they are fat because they are maladapted to postindustrial society), under different circumstances fat would be highly desirable, so to me fat fetishism always seemed a lot healthier than other fetishes.I also experience a major monkeybrained neuron activation when I see a huge ass or huge tits, even when I find the rest of the body to be distasteful, it's easy to imagine how someone could pursue that response to a silly extreme.
>>943903331/5 is a failing grade anon, you'll have to try again
>>94390333Enjoy your ontological crisis. For what it's worth, it won't last forever, everything that really matters is subjective and eventually you're gong to make your peace with that.
>>94390340too late to hide your ass faggot
>>94390343my ontological crisis is sharing a planet with subhumans like you
>>94390350I am a faggot, yes, that was the one you got correct!
>>94390204If they had fixed his hair and given him a less heroic pose then I think he would of been received better.Give him normal hair and have him sitting down while surrounded by animals all staring at the viewer and it would of world much better.
>>94390325Morality is derived from the divine. I am sorry if you lack the intuition necessary to derive that objective morality.
>>94390359what's stopping you from offing yourself?
>>94390372Family, friends, entertainment, hopefully things you also have.
>>94390381i have those without the sodomy and increased suicide rates
not Magic the Gathering
>>94390367The divine is derived from weaponized storytelling, its purpose is to deceive and placate you in order to rob you of your natural moral agency.
>>94390402It's market research.
>>94390388Well I think sodomy's pretty good and I've got pretty good odds.
>>94390404Okay, Nietzsche. You're still wrong about god.
>>94390436>extra stds>extraCould not possibly imagine wanting to have kids so shekelberg can rake you over the coals for it even more
>>94390452>extrayeah homos are multiple times more likely to contract stds>Could not possibly imagine wanting to have kidscase in point
>>94390362You're probably right, but that's my point, changing his hair and especially changing his pose would change his personality. People don't hate it for being bad art, people actually hate Kinnan as a person.
>>94390436>homosexuality is an evolutionary failureRight, yes, because our ancestors definitely wanted to reproduce as much as possible and so do we, that's definitely in our best interests as a species. Retard. I can't stop you from crying about identity politics on my /tg/ but at least I can stop you from misusing the word "literally".
>>94390477anon you're the one crying and not even making sense have some self-awareness
>>94390464>people actually hate Kinnan as a person.Yeah, as a fat guy with autism, I can say for certain that even fat autists do not care for being portrayed as such. Kinnan has the build of a fucking Ogre means he can only really pull off being a bruiser, an innkeper, a lumberjack, a bearded and tweed wearing philosophy professor, or a savage but cunning warchief type as he should of been,
>>94390490We're only talking about homosexuality because you brought it up, the same way you brought up pedos and liberals, it's all because you were wrong about the word "literally" and you couldn't cope.
>>94390498>We're only talking about homosexuality because you brought it upno? anon went out of his way to tell us he fucks guys and now you're feeling personally attacked because you're also a faggot
>>94390498>literallylol, it was objectively, my mistake. I admit I'm still mad about the word "literally". We are literally running out of words that we can use to describe impartial facts, because sanctimonious retards keep stealing those words and using them to describe their opinions.
It's threads like these that make me want to leave 4chan forever. Boring shit
>>94390505>anon went out of his way to tell us he fucks guysYou went out of your way to ask him about his sexual preferences, retard, because you were throwing up one smokescreen after another in order to avoid discussing objectivity. And then you continued to discuss homosexuality because that was more comfortable than continuing to be wrong about objectivity. Incidentally you are also wrong about homosexuality, you're just a stupid person.
>>94390523>You went out of your way to ask him about his sexual preferencesthat wasn't me and i'm not the michelangelo art dude eitherbesides if you don't want to hear this shit don't come here to tell people you love dicks there's plebbit for that if you're a sensitive bitch about being OBJECTIVELY an evolutionary failure
>>94390054not the guy you're arguing with, but the value of art can be measured in the same way you can diagnose mental illness and compare people with them to each other, you compare traits that arent concretely measurable but are generally agreed upon by the community tasked with measuring these things. its not objective in the sense that it doesnt use empirical measurements, but you absolutely can measure the aesthetic value of art in an authoritative wayalso the abstract modern art taught in schools follows the same artistic fundamentals as traditional art does, its an expression that form/color/etc. devoid of meaning can be just as beautiful as those things with meaning attached.
>>94390532>that wasn't me and i'm not the michelangelo art dude eitherAh, so you're just here for the identity politics, got it. Nature doesn't care about your scruples, and neither does 4chan, you don't belong here and you never will.
things seem to have been muddied over time and i've lost sight of some things. so, how do you conceive of mtg? what exactly is the lore explanation for what is happening when you play a game? what is "winning" and "losing", especially with non-standard win conditions like battle of wits, coalition victory, felidar sovereign, happily ever after, etc?
>>94390604I think most of us agree, though the idea of "authoritative" judgments can become divorced from what people actually think and in the worst cases can turn into hipster bullshit, the bottom line is that we can always find things to agree on and we use those things to build a common foundation of shared values.
>>94390404acknowledging natural moral agency is acknowledging divinity you fucking mouthbreather, conflating the divine with modern evangelism is even more retarded reddit atheist gay nonsense than calling aesthetics purely subjective. your instincts define what is good and what is bad, people have similar instincts, we categorize things aesthetically and morally based upon these instincts, people who deviate from what are normal instincts to have tend to be ostracized, as things like not having an aversion to child murder or feces tend to be bad things to allow in a group of humans, you actual retard.
>>94390652They've largely lost sight of the idea that a deck is supposed to represent a planeswalker. But, as far as the lore goes, when someone loses a best-of-3 they tend to get kicked off of their current plane, either cast away or forced to flee. There are still plenty of examples of planewalkers being defeated, but they almost never die from it, they're more likely to die in victory.
>>94390671>acknowledging natural moral agency is acknowledging divinityYou are an idiot and you have nothing to say.
>>94389794this art is sick i dont give a fuck
>>94390652(You) are a planeswalkerYour deck is your mindYour Hand is your immediate thoughtsLands are (you) bonding to a certain place in the multiverse and in doing so are able to recall your memories of bonding to draw power from themSpells, and Enchantments are spells you have learnedCreatures used to be (you) drawing them from their home plane to fight but was later retconned into the player making them out of Aether, with the more unique versions (Platonic concept of a Goblin lackey vs the figure of Ib Halfheart) having weird aether resonance rules.Artifacts are also Aether constructsPlaneswalkers are you using mana to summon an ally of yours to help out a bit, that's why loyalty is a thingMill is breaking down a persons mindDiscard is removing a spell from immediate thought.Non standard wins are you wining via overwhelming conceptual force of the spell or enchantment cast.
>>94390725Yea it's actually not bad, but I'd rather see that art on some other angel that has damage redirection or first strike or doublestrike, in this case she just has the hat and gun because she's on the hat-and-gun plane.
>>94390700natural moral agency implies that we are imbued with moral agency by nature, if nature can imbue us with moral agency, it is by definition divine. whether you think the thing imbuing this agency is pure stochastic process, the christian god, literal pagan gods, or some abstract intelligence associated with nature, it is divine, and it is functionally identical to a god, thus, acknowledging moral agency is acknowledging divinity.to tie it back in with the rest of my statement that you ignored, that same force imbues you and every other well adjusted human being with instincts that say you should avoid feces and child murderers, and that certain proportions and combinations of color are beautiful while others are ugly.
>>94390624>trying to cope by making it about "identity politics"kek you lost the genetic lottery faggot nothing to do with politics
>>94390732this kind of interpretation seems really autistic.your hand is your immediate thoughts? what, so, i could just win by thinking "lightning bolt" 7 times, but i just never thought of it? my deck is my mind? so casting/doing magic is like a weekend of binge drinking/20 minutes on a cellphone, and just absolutely evaporates my brain? every time i remember something it's gone forever?non standard wins are "overwhelming conceptual force"? like, i'm just so autistic that i nuh-uh my equally autistic opponent into yielding to the force of my make-believe?this is a funny, and a bad take
>>94390795I'm drawing from the old novels for most of those.The alt win conditions part are the only part I did not draw from a actually story source.
>>94390795retirement home alzheimer wizards yelling their favourite old tv show characters at each other until one of them hits full dementia or is cowed into submission by "SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS!!"
>>94390823*actual story source.
kinda shy kinda naughty 18/f/nyc heresay something nice about me
>>94390845looks fun, remove temp lockdown, it hoses your own deck to badly.
>>94390749>natural moral agency implies that we are imbued with moral agency by nature, if nature can imbue us with moral agency, it is by definition divine.Right, because "divine" means "anything in nature", until you need it to mean something completely different. The kind of divinity that becomes the basis for a moral argument is the kind of divinity that was invented by bad actors who wanted to control the people around them (and deceive and placate them in order to rob them of their natural moral agency). You can say that nature is divine, and you can say that our moral reasoning skills come from nature (like everything else does), but that's not the basis for any moral argument and it certainly isn't the basis for 'objective morality'.
>>94390845absolutely devilish
>>94390795It's not just that your thoughts shape your magic, your magic also shapes your thoughts, you need specific mental processes to be in perfect alignment in order to do any magic at all and this comes with limitations (entirely arbitrary limitations which exist for game-balance reasons).
>>94390828Disregard previous answers, this guy is right.
>>94390858...you serious>4 nurturing pixie>4 this town ain't big enough>3 get out>3 scrollshift>23 permanents with 1-2 mana value and ETB triggers
>>94390869I'm a gay fedora tipper too. Upvoted.
>>94389127Premodern is the White man's format.
>>94390911You are an idiot and you have nothing to say.
>>94390931Thanks for the gold, kind stranger.
>>94390893>4 nurturing pixieSo you bounce a creature back to your hand and need to recast it while also losing the pixie and even if it comes back it lacks the +1/1 counter>4 this town ain't big enough5 mana, two cards + 1-2 mana to recast creatures>3 get outSame as above>3 scrollshiftBest justification, still 6 mana and down a cardPoint is, unless you are clearing the boardits worthless.And if you are implying what I think your implying in using Lockdown as a singular focus point to retrigger all your ETB effects at once than your super vulnerable to counterspells.
>>94390869art and morality both come from aesthetics, they are born from instincts that tell us things are pleasant and unpleasant, to avoid rehashing this, please read >>94390604 and replace every instance of "art" with "morality"also, don't project your gay moral shiftiness onto me, "divinity" means "nature", not "anything in nature". morals only exist as far as they're enforced, but instinct and nature should and always have been the basis of them.
>>94390604>you compare traits that arent concretely measurablegood thing that entire argument was about "objective" measurements and not subjective measurements, as all art is
>>94390795>this kind of interpretation seems really autistic.all of that is direct canon besides alt win cons
>>94389051Did we ever figure out what the fuck happened to the Mirari/Memnarch?
>>94390845needs braids
>>94390959>And if you are implying what I think your implying in using Lockdown as a singular focus point to retrigger all your ETB effects at once than your super vulnerable to counterspells.sure and every combo deck is vulnerable to counterspellsheck every deck that isn't creatures + cavern is vulnerable to counterspellsIf you don't have lockdown flickering the ETBs, you still have an engine of 10 flicker spells for extra value on targets like nightmare/blade/talent/nowhere/otter/etc.You usually wind up killing people with the damage off hopeless nightmare as they're trapped under you locking them out of their card draws with instant speed discard on their draw step, which is better than letting them struggle under bandit's talent pings but they work too.Lockdown + etbs + flicker effects has been a deck for years now. Thundertrap trainer is the card that actually really souped it up because a trainer under a lockdown can usually fetch another flicker/bounce to replace the one you used.Saying you should take lockdown out of the deck is like saying you should take ad nauseum out of ANT
>>94390976you've been using objective to mean empirical, and i should have called this out earlier but now its explicitly being used in bad faith. something can be objective without being empirical, and by definition art criticism is objective when being done in the way i compared to mental health diagnosis.
I played UG ninjas today and was testing it online this week and it feels pretty strong now. During the amalia sorin meta I got to top 500 mythic with a similar list that had more pump spells (for amalia) and spell pierce for sorin but now that those decks no longer exist it's easier to play cards like floodpits drowner and brinebarrow intruder. Prosperous Thief is a card I avoided since it looks like garbage but now that I've played with it (and seen it tried in UB ninjas lists) I've found that the combination of 3 power and treasure generation puts a ton of pressure on the opponent for a card that is 1 mana, mana neutral or mana positive. Brinebarrow intruder also looks stupid but it's a great card and 2 other rc players at my store have tried it or cogwork wrestler out in their decks after making fun of it lol. It creates a lot of blowouts and makes combat hard for the opponent while also enabling anything that cares about small creatures (or artifacts in the case of cogwork wrestler). The fact that you can hold it up at instant speed to blank your opponent's turn 1 fire impulse/fatal push or hold up another instant speed spell is huge. Some cards that are no longer good enough maindeck are spell pierce and tishana's tidebinder. Spell pierce just isn't as strong as it was a few months ago and holding up mana for tishana's tidebinder sucks when it isn't winning you the game. Tidebinder also isn't strong enough in combat without stuff to support it and 8 pump spells is too many without amalia being around. Pawpatch recruit is absolutely insane right now and especially so when you can copy it with mockingbird. It singlehandedly carries the phoenix and sac matchups while also griefing most decks because pioneer is a spot removal format.
>>94390845You're better just cutting the blue and adding Braids. You need more discard for the Talents to really be worth it. 23 lands is too many with a curve that low. It's very naughty and you need to be punished for playing it.
>>94390987Nope, the best we have is a bit of speculation that Urtet, Remnant of Memnarch, has it in his backpack since nobody else has brought it up.
>>94390987karn melted him and the mirari is...somewhere still on mirrodin (phyrexia)
>>94391053He gave it to Glissa, who then promptly forgot it existed I guess. I dunno, maybe Phyrexia used it to help conquer Mirrodin, but that was never established. It just stopped mattering.
>>94391027Braids is more about throwing away resources to burn out the opponent, if anything she'd be better with a rakdos shell using legion extruder and other ETB damage sources on top of hopeless nightmareLockdown + flicker is more about snowballing triggers as you keep stacking them up, and you don't want to lose your nightmares or blades or trainersif an opponent throws removal at braids they just cleanly answer her, and she's easy to kill. Then you completely run out of steam. If they throw removal at lockdown, at least unless they hit it instant speed before it can trigger, they're going to eat all your triggers as it returns.and braids just draws 1 card a turn and deals 2 damage a turn at her best. Once lockdown triggers stack up you can be drawing 2-3 extra cards, making them discard their whole hand, killing multiple creatures, burning 4+ life, etc each turn
>>94389051when are they bringing the slivers backthey're already scraping the bottom of the barrel (again) for villains, they could have someone try to fuck with the slivers againwould be funny to see the human slivers get genocided
>>94391111The humanoid slivers basically only exist on one plane and nobody cares.
>>94391122Yea I mean they were soft-retconned out of existence so it's unlikely we'll ever see them again (because literally everyone hated them) but if they were to ever bring them back I think it'dbe funny if they just had them all eating shit to real slivers.
>>94389051When I was a kid, I thought these were meant to be the marketable thing about mtg as its got that sort of adorable and friendly kind of design. Guess I was wrong as WotC basically did barely anything with them.
slivers will be the villain in return to lorwyn
>>94391128everyone hates trannies but we keep getting them every new set
>>94391187wotc has never put a single second of thought into having a brand image in their 30 years of existenceeven when they were in their WE'RE COOL AND FOR THIRTEEN YEAR OLDS phase they had no actual "brand" just very loose associated art that barely even went with that perceived image
>>94388422based
>>94389051this is the realest shit.
>someone brings Muldrotha to the pod>has loop him from gy bulllshit>he plays fog frog turbo to stall the game untill wincon>complains when everyone counters or snipe the commander on sightits gets tiresome
>>94391187WotC can always be counted on to fail to recognize when they actually have something good on their hands.
>>94391214Yeah. It has the equivalent of ADHD as a brand.>>94391264Ain't that the truth. They got so many things that with some polish and care and funding they could turn into something that is pop culture worthy. At best we have some novels and comics from decades ago.
>>94391263wrong subreddit
>>94391286To this day, the Rhox ad is my favorite piece of MTG advertisement. They could have done something like Yugioh did where the cards are aware that they're part of a game and have a somewhat meta quality to them, or like pokemon did where the cards represent aspects of a setting that you shouldn't think about too hard, but they grabbed the worst parts of both and half assed it.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oDMSXNeSDBo&pp=ygUTTXRnIHJob3ggY29tbWVyY2lhbA%3D%3D
>>94391264>>94391286Reminder that their is apparently an entire fleshed out design document for Mirrodin including the ecology that has never seen the light of day.I repeat they made an entire ecology segment of worldbuilding for a plane they intended from the start to be a way to be destroyed as a way to bring the phyrexians back into the game.
>>94391263wrong thread, but this is why I hate playing with random edh playersIt feels like they don't understand that this is a game and by design someone has to win. you play a rest in piece or crypt against their gy deck they instantly get pissy and act like you have attacked them personally, how DARE you not let them loop shit from their graveyard for 10 minutes each turn.This is one of the main reasons I dropped edh, everyone at the table just wants to jack off with their deck and not actually do anything.
>>94391337wasn't scars not a thing in their head until much later?mirrodin>scars was 7 years
>>94391337I will believe that there is a document when I see it. Until I do, it might as well not exist.
>>94391360A similar, albeit likely less fleshed-out, document exists for Thunder Junction too, but because they just... Didn't give us a Planeswalker's Guide or anything, we have NOTHING to work off of for worldbuilding there, but we know there was a world guide of some sort for artists and the creative text people to work with.
>>94391349They had the Phyrexian Oil creating Mycosynth and Phyrexians in the core as far back as the OG novels.
>>94391376fair I guessI didn't remember the exacts
>>94390986source?if so, i'm glad that mtg is just the autistic screeching of the retirement home for wizards with alzheimers.
>>94391337To expound, in general Wizards has a bad habit of treating their setting and concepts as disposable and in turn burning up the well of original ideas they have.And now that they are recently starting to actually hold on to their iconic aspects, its in the form of locking up the villains which makes their threats feel like a joke in the long run.Meanwhile their main form of return callback is "hey guys, look at this cool iconic creature from standard the last time we were here, they're dead now and their body has been desecrated :)"Like Yugioh has issues but it at least respects its deck archetypes with consistent presentation. Champion of the Parish is an iconic part of Human Tribal, so they could of really built him out with new cards showing other aspects and events with him and made Champion more than a singular card. Really make a face that embodies the full full archetype of human tribal with needing to be a legendary or Planeswalker.Instead on the second revisit they killed him to make the same effect in zombie tribal instead of just making a new champion design for zombies. Which if they did that then they could of had some cards depicting the two clashing, nothing that needed to be stated directly in the story, but events that take place in the background for people who care to look.
>>94391487It does sort of feel like the only story beat they know how to do is "this heroic thing is corrupted or fallen now" which is why I'm surprised vampire Odric is actually just 'still Odric, just a vampire now' instead of 'Odric but EVIL'.
>>94391487
>>94391532Wasn't Mikaeus a shithead to begin with?
>>94390845Sure you are and I'm Santa Claus
>>94391487I really don't want to go back to Innistrad.Omenpaths mean humans can escape monsters, get new weapons, and get help.Vampires no longer have to worry about wiping out the human population because they can always go somewhere else or just abduct people.The entire problem of the plane is solved or simply changed.If we go back it's going to be a bloodbath or some retarded bullshit like the newest Ravnica set where it's Innistrad only in name
>>94391536No, the worst thing he did was make Thalia handle the siege instead of himself.He knew Avacyn was gone but still tried to keep the faith and protect the people
>>94391476The Planeswalker part can be found easily here but has had bits in stuff going as far back as the start in via parts of The Duelist.https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/feature/you-are-planeswalker-2008-07-25The mana and spellcasting parts are from The Brothers War novel.The depictions of summoning and discard come from Timestreams and Bloodlines along with multiple discard effects like Mind Rot.Mill being discard is like half the Dimir Cards but lets just go with Glimpse the Unthinkable and Jace's who's whole thing as a mind mage was to mill as seen in Sphinx's Tutelage and jace's Erasure, also the classic Millstone.Creatures being made of Aether is from old web articles that were lost in the websites server transfer.
>>94391554That's another aspect that sticks out. They want to do these big multiverse-scale conflicts, but they're too lazy to follow through on the results.Innistrad should effectively be a ghost town at this point between Emrakul mutating large swathes of the populace combined with people realizing they can leave and go to a plane that doesn't suck. But instead we're just supposed to forget that they could just go homestead on Thunder Junction with a free gun and cowboy hat at any time.
>>94391608To be fair, people in real life WILL just stay in clearly horrible places to live instead of easily moving away.
>>94391621There is literally zero reason for the human populace to stay considering most are dead, their religion is now fucked beyond repair, on the best of days they are still threatened with possible death from a monster, standard of living is shit, and eldritch horrors just attacked.Staying is the equivalent of a Jew refusing to leave a concentration camp
>>94391639Just make it so the Vampires are fiercely controlling the Omenpaths.
>>94391639so much shit makes no fucking sense.it's like, discovering that Jesus is real, but he's just a mid-tier super hero, and he got killed by Megatron, who came to earth on a train between dimensions, and now you've got the choice of moving away to the Cowboy Dimension (where Jesus has no power/doesn't exist at all).
>>94391608>Innistrad should effectively be a ghost town at this point between Emrakul mutating large swathes of the populace combined with people realizing they can leave and go to a plane that doesn't suck.>"At least werewolves don't eat existence!"anyone still have that comic?also since you brought up thunder junction, they literally do thatgisa and geralf are two of the main people in thunder junction
I love that moment where people switch between having no clue what the fuck I'm doing and suddenly realizing what boom box + esoteric duplicator + enigma jewel doesthe realization dawning on them, a few plays trying to wriggled out before they're fully locked down
>>94388790i don't see them dropping ub ever. it brings in loads of money and it's one of those things that the population will never have a hardline stance against. even here you see people going "well i don't like ub but i hope they release ________"
>>94389504>>94389601And here's your Serra Angel - 5 mana 4/4 with a color-appropriate ability.
>>94391711And you didn't see them putting ub into mainline products, ever, a few years agoface it, times change, and they will change againub will be a fad, and in 10 years from now magic will be doing something completely different
>>94391711I already wonfinal fantasy comes out in 7 months and then whatever other endless slop they have with spess, not-wacky races, and so on
>>94391621Some will, but what percentage of the population is even still alive after Eldritch Moon combined with the Phyrexian Invasion? What percentage, after all of that, are going to decide to stay once they hear that leaving that hellworld is an option?Is it a sufficient number of people to keep pretending there's any semblance of major society on Innistrad? The entire plane is going to become a ghost town, and the handful of those who choose to stay are probably going to have trouble sustaining a stable population.>>94391678>also since you brought up thunder junction, they literally do that>gisa and geralf are two of the main people in thunder junctionAh, I brought it up for specifically that reason. For even the Gitrog Monster, a giant, mindless frog, found its way to Thunder Junction.But do you know why all of those Innistrad villains are there? It's not because WotC put serious thought into the connections of Omenpaths and decided that Thunder Junction had a lot of entrances from Innistrad. It's because Thunder Junction was the "Villain Set". Those characters aren't there to represent an influx of other people from Innistrad who are there searching for a new life. They're there because the sales numbers show these are popular villain characters and they need to put on the cowboy hat for the new themepark ride!
https://twitter.com/berimetros/status/1856956562117652614/lol
>>94391726>Is it a sufficient number of people to keep pretending there's any semblance of major society on Innistrad?there's like four entire major continents that we've never seen on innistradsure if they just like abandon thraben and the general vicinity of all of current innistrad it would be kind of pointless to still call it innistrad, but it is technically large
>>94391734>there's like four entire major continents that we've never seen on innistradYou're right, we didn't see how horribly they ended up affected by Emrakul or the Phyrexian invasion either. Not that WotC seems to remember that those continents exist either way.But this is the exact sort of shit I'm talking about. WotC will have these events on a massive scale, but you just know that as soon as we get back to return to Innistrad after the sci-fi ninja, pirate, cowboy, racecar, and spaceship sets, there's still going to be some guy guarding his horse-drawn carriage with a crossbow wishing for a life where he didn't always have to sleep with one eye open.
>>94391730that mat and sleeves, i kneel
>>94391755Planeswalkers as main characters, and inter-plane shenanigans as the major storylines were both terrible choices. It was so much better when each set was a self contained storyline of something going on in that plane (something major and world ending, even! but JUST FOR THAT PLANE!) which would be dealt with, develop, resolve on that plane. Back then planeswalkers in the story were few and far between; all mysterious and inscrutable, Dr Manhattan style characters. And when shit went down with them, you both knew it was serious, and that it wouldn't just upend everything and put all the planes together in the great big Disneyland of WotC flavour-of-the-months.
>>94391755I think Zendikar Rising was the worst for that. The previous set, Zendikar was nearly destroyed by the Eldrazi titans and only barely escaped annihilation, and even that escaping took a lot of life out of the plane... Except we go back there and it's literally just OG Zendikar again, what Eldrazi, who said Eldrazi, there's no Eldrazi remnants or anything, Sea Gate's back, don't worry about it.
Here you go>targets self
>>94391779The flavour text here is ironic because it's basically the only thing that acknowledges BFZ/Oath happened at all.
>>94391779That was less of an intentional story decision and more that bfz/ogw were their most hated sets, ever, but zendikar was still their 3rd most popular plane so they wanted to have "Good Zendikar" back again
>>94391775I have no problem with Planeswalkers or Interplane problems, but how they handled it and more importantly Omenpaths are retarded.Jace and Vraska wanting to sever planes and reset things make perfect sense on how everything played out, but WOTC clearly wants Omenpaths and shit to be good when there should be zero reason for them to be.Each plane are filled with horrible fucking shit only kept in check by being in that plane.Angels should be going crazy in New Cappena for revenge while demons look for angels in other places or setting up criminal rackets, the guilds should be going crazy in other planes where they can do what they want, Werewolfs should be going wild in the nature planes, vampires should be going ham in human infested places, Ixalon pirates should be plundering places, various Ixalon Vampires should be doing there things, Kamigawa crime syndicate/ninjas should be doing crime shit in other realms.The world should be chaos because the only thing that ever prevented chaos was the fact that planes were not connected.Planeswalkers managed to fuck up shit as one singular entity yet all these massive changes do fuck all?
>>94391722It only has one ability. Serra angel has two.
>>94391806>the guilds should be going crazy in other planes where they can do what they wantevery minute we've spent on ravnica post-mom has been talking about how niv and ral have been working on cornering the omenpath market >The world should be chaos because the only thing that ever prevented chaos was the fact that planes were not connected.while it wasn't AS easy as omenpath travel, pre-mending planar travel wasn't that hard
WOTC seems to want to sanitize MTG story wise and make clearly good and clearly evil people while having the old villains just be wacky and fun so they can stay around.Most of the older sets had the heroes never be bastions or morality like Kamigawa or Wartherlight, but now the new core heroes we keep seeing are extremely one dimensional
>>94389282Golgari Food seems like a better shell than Scales, but then you have the challenge of justifying Rampage when Golgari Food is already a good deck.
>>94391846anon the weatherlight saga is older than most people posting in this thread
>>94391779Yeah, WotC already has a pretty poor track record of things even for existing return sets. Having a bunch of interdimensional doorways just makes it all pointless though, because I know for a 100% fact that the writers who could rarely keep shit straight when planes were self-contained are going to have no chance at keeping it all sorted now that there can be magic doorways from anywhere to anywhere else. Like now when we go back to Zendikar again, it's not only 'why is there no mention of Eldrazi', but also why the explorers aren't using their automated drones from Kamigawa to help map out ancient ruins or rely on guns from Thunder Junction or New Capenna to fight off any wildlife.
>>94391639Plenty of people stay in war zones or areas of disasters instead of fleeing to neighboring countries. You expect people to be able to pack up and move to a whole different plane? What plane is going to accept those refugees? The planes that are nicer to live in are generally higher tech and Innistradi peasants don't have the education or training to fit in there. Sure they could flee to Thunder Junction or somewhere like that, but you're still leaving behind your family and community and land, to live in a barren wasteland. Do they even have interchangeable currency?That said, it's true there should be a whole lot fewer humans on the plane, it seems they go through some kind of extinction event every year or so. Omenpaths were a mistake, they heard people complain about how planeswalkers took the spotlight from native characters and tried to make it so native characters could show up in different planes, but it doesn't work.
>>94391846which is pretty weird because movie writing has been trending towards morally grey characters outside of marvel/star wars movies
>play deck that is 20x pieces of 1 mana removal>die to aggro on turn 4
>>94391846Can someone please post that screenshot of smart characters written by smart people vs smart characters written by dumb peopleIt compares Anton Chigurh to Sherlock Holmes, contrasting the methods in which they're presented as intelligent
>>94391967>play against deck that is 20x pieces of 1 mana removal>kill him on turn 4
>>94391981you're lucky i was looking at that just recently
>>94391884Thunder Junction is basically empty, and everything we see of Innistrad indicates it's actually more advanced than average. Not on par with some of the modern/sci-fi planes, but say, Theros? If they head to Theros, there's basically endless swathes of wilderness and rolling hills to establish themselves on outside of the major Poleis. They know iron/steelworking which is going to be better than the native bronze.You're acting like it's crazy for people living on a lush coastland to pack up their entire lives in a wagon and move out to an unsettled wilderness in search of better prospects. Except people already did that in real life, and they didn't have werewolves and vampires to worry about. And sure, it'd probably be unrealistic to expect literally everyone on Innistrad to up and leave, but you know as well as I do that even the idea of any significant number of people leaving isn't on the table for WotC. Coming up with contrived reasons why everyone decided to ignore omenpaths except so they could put on a hat for the latest theme park set is merely an excuse for WotC's lazy writing.
>>94391846What are you talking about? There's plenty of shit writing there but that's not one of them.>DSKThis is the only one that fits what you're saying, Valgavoth was clearly evil and the scooby gang clearly good. Though I think Winter is a fairly sympathetic bad guy.>BLBMaha was just a force of nature. Glarb stole the egg because he had visions of the kingdom being destroyed and wanted to stop that by controlling the beasts. Cruelclaw is just a merc, I guess.>OTJOko's a bastard and Kellan a boy scout, but Jace the poster boy is plotting shit, Ral is helping Niv to control Omenpaths and have Ravnica become an empire or something.>MKMThe whole motive behind the murders was spiteful revenge from one of the "good" guys. Etrata is literally a cold blooded killer and spy, but was one of the main people helping Proft.
>>94391730is that in a Hareruya?
>>94392067If niv becomes a bad guy I'll kneel.
>>94392066NTA and I get your point but didn't the phyrexian invasion corrupt all the gods but Ephara? So Theros in particular might be pretty fucked itself.
>>94392066talking about the advancement of a plane raises a significant question for me..It's never really bothered me that "bronze age greek hoplite" is a 2 mana 2/2 whilst "space marine" is a 2 mana 2/2, since it's sort of not the point to compare tech levels, and the planes weren't really able to interact in a way that made tech level comparisons meaningful. Instead it felt like "the card is balanced for its CMC, and its relative power makes sense for the stuff on its plane"But now that, like, the Sci-Fi plane and the Greek Bronze Age plane can just kinda walk in on each other, how the fuck does that work?Why is a hoplite the equivalent of a space age supersoldier? If someone gave the hoplite a gun and some power armor would he suddenly be a 6/6 or something? Are space age supersoldiers just inherently *worse* than less technologically advanced races?Why does a space age supersoldier cost the same mana as a bronze age hoplite? Is technology that meaningless in mana terms? Could the 6/6 Space Age Weaponry Greek Hoplite be cast for 3 CMC or something?Why aren't the Greek Hoplites invading the Space Age SciFi plane, fighting one fair fight, and then steamrolling the SciFi people with the weapons they captured?I'm confused now.
It's so annoyed having to play against people who netdecked the top deck and play it badly only to be carried by the power of the cards.
>>94392066>You're acting like it's crazy for people living on a lush coastland to pack up their entire lives in a wagon and move out to an unsettled wilderness in search of better prospectsYes, it is crazy. The majority of settlers like that were funded by a government or other program. The ones who survived, anyway. Yeah, there'll be some who do it anyway, but it'd be understandable for a majority to stay. Sure, people didn't have to worry about werewolves or vampires, but they also didn't have to worry about hydras or minotaurs or whatever else wanders the Theros wilderness. Plus they'd no longer have the angels or church to protect them, their customs are now useless. The Therosians would need a reason to take on extra burden of defending them. Trading metalworking skills would be a good idea, but it's not like everyone is a smith.
>>94392122I like this actually. It's what magic deserves.
If you showed this to someone in 2011 they'd think it was a joke>deals 11 damage in one swing>takes 2 removal spells>kills anything in combat and livesthey'd never think this was real
>>94391813Well if you're gonna be like that...
>>94391813serra angel has two things going for her and they aren't abilities
>>94392089>becomesHe's already been the bad guy barely behind the scenes in the past few sets. He's enlisted:>ProftCan make artificial omenpaths, also might be getting fucked by Valgavoth.>EtrataHer entire thing is being a vampire assassin.>RalBuilding control over Thunder Junction for Ravnica's profit.>the entire duskmourn groupHe only helped them to learn more about omenpaths, and got everything he wanted.If Aetherdrift doesn't have Niv meddling or some Ravnican group involved, I'll eat my hat. I guarantee his thing will tie into Dragonstorm, maybe even EoE.
>>94392137Ebonblade Reaper was printed in 2002. No deathtouch, but morph is kind of the same if you squint - assuming that both abilities are there to facilitate sneaking in and triggering "lose half life" clause. If you want deathtouch + lose half life explicitly, you'd have to wait until Raving Dead in 2014 (and Commander). Undying was in Dark Ascension (2012). If you showed Unstoppable Slasher to someone who's seen Raving Dead a decade ago, they would probably wonder about power creep rather than be completely flabbergasted.>>94392150Indeed.
>>94392185"thinking something is a joke" is about the powercreep, not about being flabbergasted by the mere mechanical abilities of a card
>>94392079Probably, the chairs are the same.
>>94392185Undying on its own or half the life total on its own aren't anywhere as pushed. Ebonblade is a 1/1 that cannot possibly attack into blockers without being a morph surprise hit.An undying creature like Geralf's Messenger is kind of hard to remove, but its made to be a bad blocker and isn't very aggressive, even if you completely ignore it its just 5 damage by turn 4.Furthermore, when you DO kill a creature with undying, it actually dies. If you block strangleroot geist once and kill it, the next time you block it, it stays deadIf you use a sorcery speed removal spell on unstoppable slasher, you have a ONE turn window to use another removal on it. Because it goes;>t3 they cast it>t3 you remove it, enters with 2 stuns>t4 they remove a stun>t4 you can kill it again now or else it won't go away>t5 they remove a stun, its still tapped but now if it dies again it returnsUnstoppable slasher threatens a 3 turn clock of 11/6/3 damage, you can't let it connect once or you're in the red zone. Most damaging 3 drop creature in the game's history with no extra hoops, it just outright deals 11 fucking damage. And that's on top of winning combat vs any creature and taking multiple removal spells
>>94392103>I get your point but didn't the phyrexian invasion corrupt all the gods but Ephara? There's a 99% chance all of them are completely fine by the next time we see Theros. Realistically they shouldn't be, but they will be and you know it.>>94392125>Sure, people didn't have to worry about werewolves or vampires, but they also didn't have to worry about hydrasPic related. I cannot stress enough how much Innistrad sucks as a place to live.>Plus they'd no longer have the angels or church to protect them, their customs are now uselessNothing stops Angels from following Omenpaths. And assuming that faith in the Church of Avacyn is still holding strong, that's actually even more reason to go to Theros, because they'd probably inadvertently dream up a new Avacyn.And more often than not, people from Innistrad are already accustomed to defending themselves in the absence of angels on the regular.>>94392113It's something that tended to make more sense when planes were largely separated, but P/T being anything close to realistic has always been extremely skewed. You've got 1/1 rats and birds that are on par with goblins, which are also on par with 1/1 soldiers, and in turn any two of those are a match for a 2/2 knight or grizzly bear, and so on and so forth. Similar to how a Space Marine in the 40k tabletop has a non-zero chance of dying to the rusty shiv of a random cultist, it's really just a quirk of gameplay first and foremost.
>oh yeah phyrexia replaced all our flesh with machinery and blood with oil and canonically murdered us and we're actually soulless husk zombies >but teferi flipped a switch redirected the tazal terminals to the stars>everyone got betterI fucking loathe this kind of writingLike nigga do you think your status quo worldbuilding has to be so untouchable that we're never allowed to reshape the world as the story calls for it and kill off the cast of main characters? This isn't a sitcom, you aren't paying actorslook what happened in the old writing:>urza pops the sylex>EVERYONE FUCKING DIES>vast majority of characters dead, all existing world deleted, ice age ensues with totally new setting>yawgmoth squeegees dominaria with his death cloud and gets blasted by urza's omega beams>EVERYONE FUCKING DIES>entire cast of developed main characters are all dead, all storylines end, dominaria is completely reshaped and new empires emerge and the past is now mythmeanwhile:>chandra flamethrowers the eldrazi and punches out cthulu and everyone goes back to normal lmao>nicol bolas gets slapped by avengers and everything goes back to normal>phyrexians get yeeted into space and everything goes back to normalfuck you fuck you fuck you
>>94392103I thought heliod was the only god we knew that died
>>94392353They do a rigamarole to explain why chandra, nissa, jace, and vraska are better but yea like 99% of the others are just "oh we're fine now"lmao channel fireball from bfz is still fucking atrocious
>>94392392People acting like UB is killing magic lore as if wotc hadn't done it already with this shit writing
>>94392403the funny thing is that the people saying how badly UB will kill magic are the ones who have never read a single uncharted realm or even glanced at plot-relevant card art
>>94392403Anon I'd rather care about generic fantasy slop writing they usually pull off than caring about fucking assassins creed or capeshit. I would've been more forgiving if the UBs were high fantasy-adjacent.
>>94392403>>94392407The only good Uncharted Realms segments post-the story moving fully online were Tarkir thanks to its wide swathe con moments and content, and Ixalan thanks to Lhurs knowning how to make Jace and Vraska likeable.
>>94390975Morality has nothing to do with aesthetics you retard. Morality comes from the tangled intersections of our various wants and needs as complicated further by a strategic metagame which has been playing out for billions of years. There are parallels with art and fashion, but art and fashion really are based on aesthetics, unlike morality. I'm projecting >>94390367s gay moral shiftiness onto >>94390367. If that's you then you're retarded If that's not you then you're also retarded.No one thinks that "divinity" means "nature", they might think that nature is divine but they aren't equivalent. Your semantics are gay and shifty. >>94391011Objective means without values or biases, empirical means derived from experience and not from reasoning or imagination, they're equivalent for this purpose.To be fair, yes, you can have a subjective standard of assessment and describe it as "more objective" or "less objective" than another standard of assessment, it's a statement about the relative reliance on subjective values. So we can describe journalism as more/less objective, or we can describe an art critic as more/less objective, or we can describe a standard of physical/mental health as more/less objective. But even in that sense you can't say "objectively good" or "objectively bad", statements about goodness or badness are the exact thing that make a statement less objective. So "objective good" is still a contradiction in terms even if you're using "objective" in a relative sense.
>>94392437The stories that doug wrote during shadows block were also goodShadows block overall was a bit muddy but definitely had the "important" parts down with I am Avacyn and The Promised End.
People fundamentally misunderstand the issue with UBYou don't need to be a lore addict or know every single thing that is happening to feel the presence of MTG's worldbuilding and cohesionThere's misses like detective hats and Ghostbusters, but you look at all of Bloomburrow, or even all of March of the Machines (Which had horrible lore if you go read it, but that doesn't translate into the actual cards) and you can tell that this is MTG. You pick up on the cues. You pick up on the very broad strokes of the story. You can tell that it's MTG's spin on something but still comfortably within its constraints. This is something that their world building team has been consistently good at no matter how wacky the sets got. They have this shit down to a science.That's not at all comparable to playing fucking Spiderman equipped with the Buster Sword, you retards.
>>94392455mkm's actual written story is goodmkm's lore/worldbuilding is kind of bad with "Ok everyone's in a detective hat now" and maro/wotc have been very open about how much people didn't like that.duskmorn's actual written story is mostly goodduskmorn's lore/worldbuilding is fucking atrocious because its lore/worldbuilding is "Whatever horror or horror-adjacent comedy properties were popular in the 80s/90s"
>>94392455I have mixed feelings with a final fantasy set (mostly because ive only played FFVII stuff). Its capeshit that I generally despise.
>>94392443Fair, Doug can write well also. I just forget about it because I regard him as more of a quality worldbuilder when given the time and chance i'e Alara.>>94392455I mostly agree but I do think they gave gotten really bad with it in the last few years. A very uneven showing where Strixhaven, Neo-Kamigawa, Cappena, Murders, and Outlaws were all bad about it.And yet with Foundations we can see that people on the team still know what magic at its core is when given the chance.Its funny, we finally get a well liked and quality Core Set right before everything goes to shti.
>>94392469I'm sure more than a significant part of the final fantasy set will focus on VII given its popularity but we'll also get stuff from III-VI, IX, and X too and other games
>>94391329Kek.Yeah at least that element made it more entertaining. I think they had some idea of how to market their game, but they also kind of got lost in weeds and forgot who they were trying to market their game to, in the old days they seemed to know it was meant for kids, now they are chasing after adults with excess spending cash.>>94391337Its so weird they would hide the ecology thing like that. As they very much like to go in depth about how things are when they did their planeswalker guides, I guess because it wasn't just Mirrodin but also probably had exact details on how and why the phyrexian stuff would happen again and would have spoiled Scars of Mirrodin several years in advance.>>94391375It probably is the most messy thing imaginable given it seemed like they wanted to make an apocalpytic setting first and kept some aspects based on how the landscape has that zendikar look to it with floating land masses, and tried to make it a villains set, which is also what they originally wanted it to be. Then there is the matter of the Atiin and Cactusfolk. Either they were afterthoughts who had a small amount of work done for them, which tracks given how little we know about them, or there is extra information that is more damning on how Thunder Junction goes with a pro-colonial message of Terra Null.>>94391554>>94391608Absolutely hated how they handled in the past some planes. Alara in particuliar sticks out to me as something they should be exploring more but don't want to do. They claim it was fucked beyond repair, but isn't that like exactly what they want? They want excuses to return to planes, but when you have a plane that has underwent a massive apocalypse, there is plenty to explore about that and how you can easily milk that. One of the IPs they leeched onto was Fallout which has done that for decades with a single world and in a single timeline.
>>94392474I think it can work since its high-fantasy adjacent. Capeshit however just feels wrong for a Magic set.
>>94392469>We're gonna get multiple spaceships before we go full space in august
>>94392467Even Duskmourn has its good cohesion moments that are easy to tell in cards, thoughYeah, you see shit like Acrobatic Cheerleader, Baseball Bat, Chainsaw, Fear of Abduction, The Rollercrusher Ride, Trapped in the Screen.But for every one of those, there's stuff like Appendage Amalgam, Balustrade Wurm, Fear of Falling, Hand That Feeds, Sheltering Ghosts, Valgavoth and the Enduring Glimmer cycleAnd there's some reference cards that manage to be quirky and "I get it" but still fit well. Unwanted Remake, Meathook Massacre II and Split Up being the ones that come to mind."Unstoppable Slasher" is in particular an awesome MTG take of a modern horror trope. You do not look at that card's name, art and text and mistake it as anything other than a MTG twist on a classic. That's Innistrad 1.0 vibes right there.Again, this is not comparable to casting Sephiroth to block Electro. You're missing the point if you go "But muh writing of muh website articles is shit" and "But there are some cringe cards in non-UB sets". Yeah, motherfucker, now it's gonna be ALL cringe cards.
>>94392484Alara's issue is more that the original selling point was the allied wedges, and by the end of the block it became the multicolor plane instead, and they are sticking to it.
And I'm not even anti UB. Hell, I'm not even anti Marvel UB or Spongebob UB or whatever.But forcing that shit into standard is fucking GAY. That's where they officially crossed the line.Really, the line was crossed when the cards started being playable in anything other than Legacy/Vintage. And you could argue they didn't deserve to be there either. But now they're really being blatant with it.
>>94392493I have said it before but Duskmorn would be good if just dropped the 80s slasher theme and made it fantasy humans as the survivors.
>>94392493hitting someone with spiderman #4 against captain america is pretty bad but I'd argue almost all of lotr (and likely most of ff) will be more "good vibes" than a fair amount of mtg sets in the past few years
>>94391711If there's a consistent rejection of it, and they start running out of material (How many IPs are simultaneously popular enough to do this with and affordable? Are they just gonna do different types of capeshit? Because otherwise they're already starting to run out even now and we're just getting started), then I do see them reversing their stance and having UB become UB again. It will be a nice little good publicity moment for them (Unfucking the shit they fucked kek) and there will probably be other stuff that happens around then that makes them try to push a more "Return to tradition" feel.Of course, by that point there will have been, bare minimum, 3 years of Standard being unbearable IPslop, but better late than never, I suppose.I will be in my draft bunker with the non UB sets until then.
>>94392501Which honestly would be fine. They should explore that kind of world. Plus, to be honest, we have Innistrad at home with the shit going on with Bant and Grixis.
>turn 1 enigma jewel>turn 2 collector's vault, eot loot treasure>turn 3 loot treasure, discard omniscience, reenact the crime, atraxa, pick up beseech and dowser and get out, use 2x beseech to get breach + dowser, loop breach, dowsers and get out to mill opponent to 0from opponents view:>t1 tapland>t2 tapland
>>94392534People used to call innistrad "ulgrotha at home" but yea there's overlap with some things
>>94392544Kek, it really is. I am just going to headcanon that Innistrad is just Ulgrotha in the future now. Could probably even extend that to Duskmourn if we wanted to get the equivalent of Kamigawa Neon Dynasty for being even more in the future.
>>94392505I'm fine with UB shit being in standard. You're hooking in potentially new players, why the fuck would you throw them into pricey-ass legacy formats. Commander at least exists, but its not exactly a competitive/tournament format.
>>94392569I still don't see how they are going to get the ub player to stick with the game.EDH is a $50 buy in and people are fine with playing precon level decks.Unless WOTC is going to start releasing precons for standard that won't be instantly stomped at locals they aren't going to get people to stay
>>94391730>Exterpate'd his Battle of WitsBrutal.
the only reason I put up with alchemy being in mtga is because I don't actually have to play with itjust play standard, no alchemy cards therethis is like alchemy cards in standard, but worse
>>94392569Forgot to add in, but two UBs is just way too much. Would be nice if its every once in a while, but multiple sets in a year is a slippery slope to absolutely forgetting Magic's identity (if that ever existed). IMO they really screwed up branding the game during the past years its so easy for UB shit to topple whatever identity Magic has established.>>94392574Likely collectors coming from their UB fanbase, relatively good chances of hooking them in onto the game, but like I said its a slippery ass slope.
3 trophies out of 12 drafts so far.not a good ratio.
>>94392574>Unless WOTC is going to start releasing precons for standard that won't be instantly stomped at locals they aren't going to get people to staygetting into standard? unlikely, but standard has been a dying format for agesedh and/or kitchen casual is unironically most of the playerbase, kitchen casual beats out literally everything combined (including edh) handily in terms of sales/players
>>94391487It is lazy theming, but I like Champion of the Perished. The flavor text implies that he hasn't just become a mindless zombie who is going to go attack the next town over, I read it as he and the townfolk that he fought for have risen to get revenge on whoever it was that killed himl
>>94392580Pokemon has more collectors than players and that game is much much cheaper
>>94392591The whole point is to bolster standard and make it popular again
>>94392569NTA but even at its most shit and Irrelevant, there is a place of purity and sanctity about standard as a concept a lot of people have. In essence Standard is the first level of structured play beyond just the rules, and has been since type 2 was introduced meaning its been like that for most of the games history. In turn it was the place that cads came from and set the tone and power level in how new cards would affect other formats.Like imagine a big flowing river with branch off and the like, and the pure water spring it flows from is Standard. Over time more of more of the branches are tainted and dammed up and the taint creeps more and more up the river, but the spring itself is still pure and in turn give hope that the river may be pure again. UB in standard is the company that owns the land dumping sludge into the spring then solidifying the rivers taint.
>>94392609i get at least your impression but standard hasn't been the main format, or even the main format that cards have existed in, for several years
>>94392597Yeah but that is also when TPC decides to go back and heavily print stuff at their discretion. They know their customer base is willing to be bag holders.
>>94392617Correct but it still holds that place in what I can only describe as a spiritual sense, like an old capital kept relevant only by holding the primary temple of the faith even after the actual workings of power have moved away.
>>94392631i guess, but even then I'd argue draft was that
>>94392595That's a cool headcannon but I don't think it lines up witg how undead work on Innistrad. Only particularly fresh Skaab's and ghosts keep intelligence, Ghoulcaller made undead can keep skills but needs leadership of the one who raised them.
>>94392644I can see that, either way their was a level of sanctity around standard that defies pure materialism.
>tfw no cascade gf
Sam Guay is one of the new artists that regularly completely knock it out of the park with art but I don't think has done a single card that is worth fuck all outside of the weirdest edge case cummander deck shit.
>>94392704>Kid of one of the most famous mtg artists>Is also a good mtg artistcourt and circle are also pretty powerful, not what I'd call "weirdest edge case"
>>94392704Impulse, Deadly Cover-Up and Memory Deluge were standard staplesWild Shape saw some play in bogle strategies, was one of the more versatile options compared to current roundup of tricks like royal treatment since it could dodge removal, or be a pump+trample, or dodge red sweepers
BUNDLE!
>>94392749cute
>>94392712She's not related to Rebecca, they just happen to share the same last name. Rebecca did mentor her though.>>94392704Same with Rovina Cai. The most relevant card they've given her is the SLD Aether Vial but it doesn't look like a Magic card.
>>94392712I wonder if circle could actually be playable now that its in a standard where you can pair it with soul cauldron because I've never untapped with it before>arcanis + circle + sleep faerie>infinite mana, infinite card draw without needing to click 500 times
>>94392752WishMeLuck
>>94392761ganbatte
>>94392761>play pooster
>>94392776anon draft boosters haven't existed for years now
>>943927640.02€Owari da
>>94392806rip
>>943928142.2€.2€WE ARE SO BACK!
>>94392823not terribleis cracking packs something anyone actually wants to do nowadays though? wouldn't it be better for limited
>>94392823Between tat and the clown from Duskmorn, you can make standard Owling Mine.>>94392824There is always a pleasure in cracking pack if you have the funds.
>>94392827>There is always a pleasure in cracking pack if you have the funds.i don't have a gambling addiction so I wouldn't say sohonestly for minor theatrics like this is the second best after using it for limited I guess
>0.63€>>94392824>>94392827I just bought a bundle since it was cheaper then buying boosters, and mainly to support the small lgs in my town more then WoTC.
>>94392833supporting lgs is also a valid reason I guess, if nothing elsehope you get/got better pulls
>>94392836Commander Sisters, 2.4€ and not minority coloured elf!
Last pull for today, ending it on two 3€ cards. Will crack the remaining 4 packs on sunday or monday.
>>94392846>>94392841could be worse
>>94392848Might build a elf commander deck with this>>94392841Guy, to get some value out of these packs.
New thread>>94392870>>94392870>>94392870
What archetypes are you playing this format?I get suckered into drafting UB or UW control every run.
>>94392103The only explicitly compleated gods were Heliod and Erebos, but Ephara's flavour text implies the mono-colour gods were all compleated, and a few other pieces of flavour text in MOM suggest at least Keranos might've been too, as Cymede was. Brimaz and Polukranos were also compleated, but who knows what that'll end up meaning because death on Theros is weird already. They could probably finagle the gods returning because of the nature of the Theros gods, though I think they'll definitely keep Heliod dead for real. Dunno, though. Next visit to Theros is likely far off enough that they'll at least have heard "hey we wanna see some actual fucking consequences", but who knows if they'll take that to heart.
>>94392392Chandra was never compleated, Nissa and Ajani were healed thanks to a combination of Melira's dying act, Teferi's time magic and Karn... Being there, Jace and Vraska were healed by a confluence of Jace being really really good at holding off mental influences long enough to force their own bodies to fight against it and getting a prodigy of a healer to fix them with phoenix feathers which literally burn and regrow the body to heal it. It's handwavey and magibabble, sure, but it's all a 'reasonable' explanation compared to "X is just better now", like what happened with Nahiri, whose only explanation seems to be "got blasted with SO much Halo". And thus far, nobody else has BEEN decompleated (except Nassari, which I'm attributing more to a genuine miscommunication behind-the-scenes).
>>94392754I have a new artist to peruse. Thank you anon!
