Im making the "magic" part of my game and I'm torn between making spells more specific "wall of fire + fireball + burning hands + resist fire, etc" or making one "FIRE" spell that can be manipulated towards all those options and others I cannot fathom right now. What should I do? I want to have many possibilities open, but at the same time I hate negotiating with players about their powers.
We would require a lot more information about the setting, what your system is trying to accomplish, how fleshed out you want the magic to be, and so on.
Lets see what you've got so far
>>94390262Spheres of Power would be my suggestion for something to look into. It has the advantage of flexibility by letting the player mix together the portions of a spell towards a specific effect, but is still codified enough where you don't have to argue about exactly what they can do or not.
>>94390262What system?
>>94390328Spheres of Power, in my experience, is fun an exciting at the beginning. But becomes cumbersome and unwieldly as you and your players gain mastery and start bending (or outright breaking) the rules to gain a greater advantage, though that might be part and parcel with it being tied to Pathfinder
>>94390347>What system?If you'd actually read, it would be obvious it's an under-construction self-made one:>>94390262>Im making the "magic" part of my game
>>94390262I personally go for something like the disciplines from VTM/WoD where skills have dots that determine how much of something you get and then you can have certain synergies from having x number of dots in certain skills/discipline.For example, there is an ability called Burning Wrath where a vampire can swing their fist so fast and hard it literally catches fire and burns the opponent. You need certain amount of dots in Potence (the measure of your super human strength) and Celerity (their superhuman speed) to be able to do it.
>>94390262Read through mutants & masterminds and how powers are constructed to gain an understanding of how discrete effects play out in a game. It's even d20 based so it's comparable to how d&d does it. Read nigga read.
>>94390262If you're dead set on possibility without negotiating you're going to have to make a huge spell list. If you can manage it, get a decent set of prime elements like >FIRE>WATERetcAnd a list of modifiers like >Wall>Touch>Protect And sort out how a magic user will have access to both the primary and modifiers and maybe set out some guiding principals for how magic works everyone knows, like a 10 commandments sort of thing you can use as boundaries to make negotiating easier. >Only works while concentrating >Requires esoteric materialsEtc.
>>94390397>If you'd actually read, it would be obvious it's an under-construction self-made one:Please post what you have so we can provide feedback.
>>94390353Yeah, I've heard it's a mixed bag. Though if it's functional enough at early levels, then that might be sufficient for what OP requires.
>>94390442Not the OP, and simply pointing out for everyone else you're either trolling or a retard as your question is obviously invalid with the most basic of reading comprehension.
>>94390692I want to see the homebrew system OP has so I can provide feedback for it. How is that trolling?
>>94390315This, show us what you've got.You must have done some writing for it, right? Let us see it.
>>94390708You didn't ask for more details like >>94390315 or >>94390317, you asked "what system?" to an OP clearly specifying an under-construction self-made one.
>>94390768If it's a homebrew system, he must have some notes, right? I want to see them too, so we can see what we're working with. How is that a problem? Any GM would love to show off their system in progress.
>>94390781I don't care how you try to weasel out of it by moving the goalpost, >>94390347 is not that and is not an applicable question to >>94390262.
>>94390861WHAT SYSTEM, FAGGOT?TELL MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>94390262Why not both?Magic is standardized in an rpg setting by the God of law but if someone wants to make their own spell they can, however if they fuck up the creation they have to wait x months depending on the spell level before than can try again.A successful try doesn’t mean they got the results they wanted, only that it didn’t fail.
>>94390861What system
>>94390262Do the tyranny system. Each spell is [core] + [shape].So, [fire]+[projectile] = fireball[force] + [wall] = wall of force
>>94390262What are the parts you've already designed about your system? Is it vancian casting, do you use Mana points, is it cooldown based, do PCs learn spells from a mentor, loot, or on level up?
>>94390262Make the mechanics specific, but leave the flavor open.
Can't tell if anon is the magic system anime spammer or someone inmittating them to make some sort of metapoint. Either way anon will never engage with anything we write.
>>94390781>>94390708>>94390442>>94390317https://alchemistnocturne.blogspot.com/2024/05/trow-fortress-00-prelude-or-why.htmlOkk anons you asked for It. Just ignore the spells and mágic entry as obviously im nota happy with itIm reading and pondering anons. Not sure of the direction yet but i lean more towards a spell list than a "make your own spells". The thing is how specific to make the spells, and maybe make spells that have synergy with others. For example, having many ice based spells can be good because if you prepare one, you prepare all the others un the same rest. But having different types can make you more versátile, etc.The problem begins when i try to make five meaningfully different ice spells. Or even three. Ice blast (paralyzing chance) and ice wall, both of which can freeze a pond using common sense. Then a spell to resist fire or ice, depending on if cryomancy can allow you to adapt to cold or to chill the nearby heat. Maybe the resistance could be an implied part of the others. Maybe there can be a divination spell with cold thematics. But though the idea is appealing, im not sure if it worth yo even separate ice blast and ice wall for so little spread.Idk anons. What sounds the most fun inside the "spells from a list" approach?
>>94393726How does a wall freeze a pond?
>>94394351 By being made of ice, thnx 4 tha bump
>>94390262qt emberneth
>>94390426I came here to post basically this. There was a DnD alternative system that worked this way, but I can't find it now.
>>94390262Well, one suggestion I would have is giving each element kinds of spells beyond just directly manipulating the elemental force itself, especially using thematic or semantic associations. Like wind magic that lets you hear whispers from distant locations, or an ultra-powerful ice spell that lets you slow down time, AKA trying to “freeze” it, that kind of thing. Water getting healing isn’t an uncommon idea either. Thanks for the link >>94393726 by the way.
>>94395891this is very good. Im not limiting myself to elements, though, Anything can work if it can give 4-5 spells (something stupid like cat magic, for example). Youre welcome. Ive been actually trying to make a good magic system for a decade and tested about a half of my ideas, but never managed to settle for something i liked.
>>94393726>The problem begins when i try to make five meaningfully different ice spells. Or even three. You might find it easier to look at each element and determine which effects/behaviors/utilities you want to give them, then make spells within that design space. You can take a page out of Magic the Gathering's book with allied/enemy elements, where each element shares some abilities or synergy with others or directly counters other elements. Try and determine what role you want each element (and players who take them) will fulfill, mechanically. Will Lightning mages be the assassin/rogue type? It's ok to have some overlap and fudge a little bit if it makes a more interesting game to play.For example, you could give all Ice spells the bonus that enemies that are dealt Ice damage have their speed reduced by 1 for a turn, and Fire spells have a chance to Ignite the enemy, dealing 1 damage per round and causing any action that requires concentration to become more difficult. So now you have a theme that Ice spells are good at impeding an enemy's movements, and Fire is especially useful against other spellcasters. Ice Shackles lets you completely stop an enemy's movements. Hazy Mirage creates an illusion that disrupts magical targeting. Snowball makes a ball that rolls in a straight line and scoops up anyone it hits. Firewall creates a barrier that burns up any magical energies that pass through, but mundane things are unaffected.>Ice blast (paralyzing chance) and ice wall, both of which can freeze a pond using common senseIt's common sense, but now you need to specifically outline all the non-combat capabilities of these spells, which can be tiresome. You might be better served trying to go for a more narrative approach.
>>94390262Well, one thing to consider is just how much magic a person can learn, is it more like Avatar, where a person can only learn one element, or can any mage theoretically learn any spell as long as they have the talent and study?
>>94393726This is great!
>>94396768Glad I could help! Any thoughts on what traits you might give each element? As for more ideas, how about a fire spell that lets you eat flammable material and spit it up as napalm, or just outright breath fire?
>>94393726I think for the fact that you're aiming at mages having five spells per day, having the spells be more modular could help, but if there's such a small number of spells a mage is expected to use, then you probably don't need an extremely long list of ice spells.The fact you're going for stricter spell memorization would also lend itself to spells themselves being more particular, rather than some sort of more generic 'control ice' spell.>The problem begins when i try to make five meaningfully different ice spells. Or even three.Just at a baseline, I could see having>AoE chilly fog spell; deals gradual damage and obscures vision>icy ray/blast; can freeze foes or make the ground slick (maybe let the mage fire off multiple blasts with one spell>ice armor; offers fire/ice resistance along with some minor boost to defense>ice wall; self explanatory>AoE blizzard; deals a single burst of damage in an area and pushes targets with strong windAnd that's five reasonably distinct spellsIf you wanted the spells to be more flexible, it would be possible to set them up like Pyrotechnics and basically give them two modes. Like you could have it so the Ice Wall can also instantly be shattered by the caster into a cone of ice shards, or make it so that instead of a blizzard and fog spell, you either do a one-time blizzard cone, or a gradual obscuring snowstorm. An ice armor spell could also double as a spell to create an icy weapon. And even just beyond that, it's possible to take other spells, give them an elemental bent, and then give them a variation. If a flight spell involves conjuring up a whirlwind to carry you, then that same spell could have a second function to conjure the whirlwind under an enemy to toss them around.
>>94395079So total bulshit style magic. If the ambient temperature is above freezing, the water will melt the ice.
>>94395576You're thinking of Savage Worlds' version of Pathfinder
>>94397156>>94397384I'd be interested to know what you think before I answer that.
>>94390262>one "FIRE" spell that can be manipulated towards all those options and others I cannot fathom right nowThis is always the objectively superior option. Less rules bloat, more flexible, more intuitive, more versatility. You can represent a hundred thousand times more character concepts by creating generic magic options that can be nigh-endlessly combined and modified, than "specific spell" systems in the same number of pages.Once I went from D&D's hyper-rigid spellcasting to systems that allow more flexibility, like Ars Magica, Mage, GURPS Sorcery, etc., I've never looked back.
>>94390262>I am actually doing nothing, just shitpostingSeek help>>94390315>implying OP has anything to share or say
>>94399497Interesting, but wouldn't you agree that series with more rigid and therefore recognisable magic systems are more popular than those without them? Everyone knows Magic Missile and Shield, whether it's through playing D&D or through other media inspired by it.
>>94390262Sorted.
>>94403022What is the sauce here?
>>94406814Prowlers and Paragons.
>>94390262wall of fire : blast, area, independent, stationaryfireball : blast, areaburning hands : strikeresist fire : armor, limited - only fire damage
>>94393726what does this have to do with the op topic?You just wanted to post your blog, you jackass.
>>94393726What are you talking about? Nobody here asked you for anything.
>>94393726This is based, thanks.
>>94403002>wouldn't you agree that series with more rigid and therefore recognisable magic systems are more popular than those without them?I'll admit that's true. I suppose it's because I more often already have an idea for a magic system or setting I want to emulate, sometimes borrowed from other fiction or from a synthesis of ideas I've collected over time. It's far easier to start with something generic and add my own specifications to it, than retool something that's already custom-tailored to a setting I don't plan to play in. I also love it when my players exercise their creativity with the versatile magic tools available to create their own unique spells and signature majicks. So while it might not be as recognizable or popular to other play groups, we have something that is special to us.
>>94411683What game lets you work on your art?
>>94411896Ars Magica? What a weird question.
>>94412076Good, I hope all the spamming faggots leave.
>>94413918They'll be the only ones left. Digital cockroaches roaming the wasteland that was /tg/.
Can't happen fast enough.
>>94413918Banning the woyafag would be awesome. Probably would solve half the board's problems in one move.
>>94390262>>94393726Technically what you (think you) want is a M&M-like format, or at least that's the solution to y'all's stated problem. Whether or not you'd like what comes with it, that's something else entire. TL;DR?: You're base system is an awkward fit with modern increments suited to custom powers.All sub-categories (eg Range) are borad-incremented; when mixed with uncapped leveling this looks retarded. When mixed purely with (moderate) leveling, the conceit merely tends towards retardation. Yes. Merely. Part of it is the need to archetype-bundle a pile of miscellaneous shit into coherence -- that's a flaw OSRniggas accept, but mostly due to the limited effect templates. What good is a [Cone] template when [Undodgable AoE] and [Permanently On] are among the templates available to PCs? Ya gonna hit a genre/structure hitch applying this to OSR, man. Just in case ya didn't know.Basically this opens into a drastically larger 'make ur own archetype space' cemented under the major progression point of the game -- the level. So now you know what comes next...AC, BAB etc Have fun with it, I guess.
>>94406842Thanks, do they have any other sections particularly relevant to this thread?
>>94418611No.
