it really depends on the game/setting

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>>94391496
Solution B happens all the time though.

This is like when people complain about the unfair beauty standards in movies and then are like, "Yes, yes, Hugh Jackman as Wolverine was just a very reasonable man who goes to the gym three times a week".

It's fantasy, go wild.

This is a question of aesthetics, which are more than just "This is the right way to do things."

Shit, even sexy armor is more complicated than just design. Like there's a big difference between a woman in what amounts to a bikini or BDSM gear versus a design that's both sexy while not being objectifying.

I like to think of it as the cosplay sort of deal: is the design something a lot of people would want to cosplay? It's not a perfect test, but it's often a good read on if the outfit is actually interesting of if it's just softcore porn.

>>94391496
I mean, the idea of women fighting in combat is already a fantasy. Let them wear appealing outfits, we're already in the fantasy realm.
Look at stories like Red Sonja, or panty fighters like Queen's Blade. The girls rarely get hit in a way that does anything other than clothing damage, because there's NOWHERE you can hit a woman that doesn't leave a mark.

It entirely comes down to context and aesthetics of the setting.
But anti-sexy armor people are invariably obnoxious. Either
>online identity feminist trying to campaign and pretend she isn't a vocal minority and her parrots
Or
>guys, I'm [scoff] pretty weird but [scoff] isn't it funny that I find [snort] CLOTHED women sexier than naked women? I know it's pretty strange but it's true. I'm just an outlier like that. Out the box. Off the wall. You know? My sexuality is just... cerebral I guess? I'm pretty strange

>>94391546
Realistically it's all fantasy, because there's no way even a man in armor is surviving a direct hit from dragons as big as they are usually depicted. Yet there's typically no reason given why the men still wear bulky armor without falling into nonsense like just saying females are actually stronger than men in implication.

B, always, because I'm a horny bifag

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>>94391496
False premise that there's a problem.
All 3 are fine.

>>94391645
To be fair, they did say alleged.

>>94391516
Solution B would be going back to D&D's pulp fantasy roots.
Remember, Robert E. Howard was way more of an influence on Gygax than J. R. R. Tolkien was.

>>94391496
I'm not sure if I've ever seen the alleged problem at all, outside of MMOs and literal parody.
Usually it's either a more realistic setting where everyone is assumed to wear practical armor, or it's a less realistic setting and everyone just wears whatever they think looks good.

So your answer is probably just however autistic you're feeling about realism.

>>94391496
I'm on the "alleged problem" side. "Muh equality/objectification" screechers are welcome to find another group.

>>94391496
b is stupid because it's a false solution
in reality (if it was meant to appeal to women) the guy would just be topless or have a billowy open shirt like fabio novels have

>>94391610
Women did do fighting time to time so it's realistic to have lady warriors and the like. But even if you ignore that there is little point trying to reason with that anon he puts little to no thought into what he is saying.

I've never liked chain/steel or w/e bikini designs because they genuinely don't look comfortable. Even if you were to wear something like that it stands to reason it would go on top of some form of leather or other base.

>>94391563
Impeccable citations.

>>94391496
I'm on the side of shut up. This doesn't actually happen. Nobody fucking cares except retards who don't game.

>>94391762
>not gay
>removed the women in bikinis
[x]

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>>94391496
>SolutionC
There was never a problem to begin with
Make multiple settings with different aesthetics and let the free market decide without meddling faggots forcing their opinions on things

>>94391714
You dumb nigger. House cats did do fighting from time to time so it;s realistic for House cat Warriors to be a thing. It's a power fantasy and if she chick wants to play a caked up sword mami good for her, but if she wants to control how other people enjoy their power fantasy, their conan fantasy their summons a succubus fantasy, my magical forest fantasy, she can fuck right off.
>That's sexist
Yeah you're in a region best know as being in the dark fucking ages. You might have the power to swing a sword but most women are housewives and best seen not heard.
>That's not very creative
But it is a lot of fun.

>>94391770
>having women in your gaming group
no john, you are the faggot

>>94391496
put both in the same game. Let me choose between slutwear or practical, I never really understood why this has to be a choice, it's not like only one group of people in your game is going to make armor.

>>94391496
Artists is a friend of Niklas and his friends.

>>94391496
The alleged "problem" is only present on coombait jap games

>>94391496
I'll cast my vote on "Alleged Problem"

Nice thread
I thought I was on /v/ for a moment

>>94391789
Have sex.

Absolutely terrible. If you get to wear any piece of armour, wear a helmet.

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>>94391553
>guys, I'm [scoff] pretty weird but [scoff] isn't it funny that I find [snort] CLOTHED women sexier than naked women? I know it's pretty strange but it's true. I'm just an outlier like that. Out the box. Off the wall. You know? My sexuality is just... cerebral I guess? I'm pretty strange
It's the whole safe horny thing in a nutshell.
It's why it's empowering to say that you find old, makeup-heavy dominant brothel madam Lady D hot (Since she's 'still got it' despite being a middle-aged woman) and it's not okay to find Kasumi hot.
Mostly because feminists like to think they'll age gracefully instead of becoming hags.

>>94391496
The best defense is nudity, because nudity is the most offensive option, and the best defense is a good offense.

>>94392219
Might as well be.

I want to have SEX with Larisa

>>94391546
So, that means B.

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The superior warframe.

>>94391546
>I mean, the idea of women fighting in combat is already a fantasy. Let them wear appealing outfits, we're already in the fantasy realm.
lol, sure, and all the goblins should have clown noses and bells on their feet, and all the hobbits should serve tea and cookies during combat. In fact the only serious combatants are dragons so any humanoid might as well be a joke character. We're already in the fantasy realm, right?

>>94392477
I don't know why you're so pissed off, but I'm glad it happened.

>>94392482
Typical posture.

>>94392482
He heard the word "shield-maiden" once and is now a historical expert on women in battles. Ignoring the fact that they're typically a home guard and not career fighters.

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>>94391496

Both go into the dumpster. Wear a helmet, fags.

>>94391762
I mean ... we're playing space marines in Deathwatch, so that's basically it. Either you're a space marine in full armour or you aren't in the game.

>>94391496
There's plenty of examples of fashion in armour through history, muscle cuirasses, coloured brigandine, fancy codpie.

While these were pretty much all male because fighting was largely considered a mens vocation, if you're in a world where women are fighters as well that changes. It's reasonable to expect they'd have armour that accentuates the female form the same as the armour that accentuates the male. Essentially, of course women will be interested in fashion in their armour, why would they not be?

And in a world where you have Conan able to run around in his undies and be fine it doesn't make any less sense for Red Sonja to do the same and also be fine.

TLDR: I just wanna look at bikini armour

>>94391496
Solution B. Bruh.

>>94392637
>we saved our sugar and used it for our hair

Huh?

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>>94392637

>>94392680
sugaring / sugar waxing

>>94392688
...Not the hair I was expecting.

Also ow.

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>>94391496

>>94392680
>Sugaring uses a simple mixture of sugar, water, and lemon juice to remove the hair at the roots. The ingredients are mixed into a gooey, room-temperature paste and applied to the skin against the direction of hair growth. When rolled back, it uproots the unwanted hair.
Probably.

>>94392592
Conan wears armor any time he can get it. If he's in his undies it's because he sold his armor for booze and whores. Most people would prefer not to go into battle with an exposed midriff or cleavage, and the exceptions (wacko berserkers, arcane spellcasters, spooky priests) lose their charm if they become the norm.
Also, Red Sonja is a Marvel bimbo, but she has a contrived explanation for her skimpy outfits and that's really all I can ask for, I just hate it when I think that people are mixing up Red Sonja (Marvel bimbo) with Red Sonya of Rogatino (actual REH historical fiction character, basically like a lady-conan but even more alcoholic).

>>94392706
>If he's in his undies it's because he sold his armor for booze and whores
I think there's also just a disconnect between the actual books and Frank Frazetta.

>Red Sonya of Rogatino (actual REH historical fiction character, basically like a lady-conan but even more alcoholic).

>tfw no redhead slav partisan gf

>>94392706
>Conan wears armor any time he can get it.

His opponents do too, for all the good it does them: Conan splits peoples' heads open even when they're wearing helmets.

>If he's in his undies it's because he sold his armor for booze and whores

I haven't read him doing it for that reason - the ones I can recall were because he was wearing an armour of a specific style that was unsuited to where he was going (e.g. he's in armour distinctly from Kingdom A and is going to Kingdom B who is enemies with Kingdom A) or he's trying to blend in with the locals (as in the Hour of the Dragon when he infiltrates Stygia, despite them being black and him being at best very tanned). I find it honestly a little trite.

>>94391496
women wearing armour and fighting in battles in already a total fiction so they may as well be eye candy, men in armour grounds a setting and frankly chicks don't much care to see half naked guys, they care more about the face and attitude.

>>94391496
All 3 variants (and more) can make sense depending on the setting.
Fuck off with the preachy egalitarian bullshit and take a look at actual history and various cultures around the world. Some are completely bizarre from the western perspective and it's perfectly fine.

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>>94391770

There has been a couple of historical examples of women individuals fighting, but usually they are the exemption. Exemptions don't make armies. Women warriors should be rare and a sign that the woman is a fool or very badass.

>>94392755
What about hobbits fighting in battle? Or goblins fighting in battle? What about humans fighting in battle against dragons, is that somehow more "grounded" than human women fighting human men?

>>94392778
PCs are typically extraordinary and unusual people. In a world where magic is rare and wizards hoard secrets like gemstones, a party will have two wizards and a hexblade. In a world where elves have retreated to their forest fastnesses, the party will have an elf and a half-elf.

So if women usually don't go to war, a party can still have some women.

>>94392203
We've had armor autism threads like these for years before the culture war even was a thing.

>>94392812
>before the culture war even was a thing.
And now those days are over. The culture war is here. If a pro-male pro-straight or pro-white position exists then there will be straight-white-male-justice-warriors pushing that position with the shallowest arguments imaginable. They don't play games or care about games, but that doesn't matter, because retards like you and me are willing to reply to them.

>>94391496
There is no problem, this is fantasy. If we want to be realistic, the man would be wearing heavy tunic gear (no, full combat armor was not as common as you're lead to believe) and the woman wouldn't even be there, she'd be a maid hiding in a dark corner of the castle being sieged and either killed from falling debris or kept as the platoon's congratulatory rape pig.

>>94391546

But women make better witches.

Bikini top looks weirdo on dudes, just go full Conan shirtless.

A is good if female night wears cute clothes when not in armour and doesn't get captured and impregnated by ni- I mean orcs.

>>94392843
You guys always act like we're all talking about wargames, but your arguments don't hold up at all to a wargame, a wargame is a game where 15 ratmen can dogpile a wyvern and kill it. There's no point at which a combatant is too weak to matter, rather it's a spectrum between weaker combatants and more-powerful combatants. Most wargames have some human combatants who are worth 5-10 times as much as other human combatants, and you accept that readily, and yet you can't accept the idea of a female character who is relevant in any nonsexual way.

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>wearing armor
Everyone bares their chest to show the trained body of a warrior!
>but I'm a woma-
Tits out.

>>94392871
I don't play wargames and have no idea what you're yapping about.

>>94392882
Shooting a bow bare-cgested with breasts is pretty dangerous. She should at least be wearing a binder or something, just for that. She can take it off when she picks up her sword.

>>94392889
So, what, you're talking about a dungeoncrawler where a 1st level hobbit thief is explicitly just as relevant (nonsexually) as a human warrior or an elf spellcaster?
Or are you talking about card games, where the most powerful cards represent physically-weak creatures who give value over time?
Or are you talking about board games which do not attempt to simulate warfare except on the most abstract macroeconomic level?

A - Plate armour is my fetish

>>94392895
Or go full Amazon and hack one off.

>>94392440
Pic unrelated? As a huge latex fan, skintight full-body coverings go hand in hand with a bunch of fetishes that I would hesitate to call empowering (as in they're all bottoms, masochists, and sluts).

I'll give you masks/full face coverings though. A lot of times it's unsaid, but I'm pretty sure the key driver for them is "your face is not sexy."

>>94391496
Girls in full plate are way sexier than half-naked ones.
"A" all the way.

>>94392902
Anon, the topic is bikini armor. It's a fantasy. Whatever implications you come to are yours and yours alone and I will continue to view women clad in such armor in a fantasy setting as "pretty cool", ala Red Sonja. If you have a problem with that, you are breaking my immersion, otherwise if you're upset because real world women (as in, real, living breathing women, not tabletop games) wouldn't wear bikini armor, you're right, they wouldn't because they wouldn't even be on the battlefield. Either everything's a fantasy or nothing is and yes, I do fully support male bikini armor, I think it looks pretty cool too.

>>94391496
I unironically like playing as half naked, burly men. It's more feral. Primal. It's fun.

>>94392477
Triggered femoid detected.

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A all the way.

>>94391496
Real talk - Solution B as they want it was always just a thinly veiled attempt at spiting men by making the male characters look gay, rather than woman wanting it because they are into it. The best example for that is, as is always pointed out, that they don't want the classic barbarian style character who is barely clothed idealized man, but to just put a dude in woman's clothes.
Which doesn't even make sense, because men and women aren't the same, they don't have the same aesthetics and proportions, so you can't just slap the outfit from one on the other and pretend it looks equally appealing. Even full armor when put on a woman is adjusted. What ironically the artist in this case also does, but then conveniently doesn't for the bikini armor to fit the guy (the opposite even, he gets his crotch put on display), bringing us back to my point above - He isn't supposed to look good for them, but to look like a clown to annoy other men.
What's more if their "solution" genuinely always is to put men in women's clothes and make them more feminine, at some point you gotta wonder if they are actually into men. Stuff like bikini armor exists to make female characters more feminine, not less.

In conclusion - Don't fall for their bullshit rhetoric, because they are just doing this against what you like under the guise of misplaced morality and fairness. The entire discourse already falls apart before going into details, because obviously they are free to put dudes into female outfits as much as they want, create their own fiction, in the east there are already entire genres for that. But for some strange reason this needs to be only "fixed" in fiction mainly for men. You don't see men trying to get into fiction for woman going
>How is Fabio supposed to do his royal duties when all he wears is a flowing open shirt?
>Solution A - Put him in a real uniform
>Solution B - The princess also wears an open shirt with her tits out the entire time

>>94392988
Hissy fit or no, I'm ok with crapping on modern D&Disms of living above the cafe you run with your party in a fantasy kingdom.

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>>94391496
All of the above depending on genre.

>>94392527

>Bad news for the guy who want's to play a Scout marine.

>>94391770
>Implying that beign a faggot has anything to do with being gay.
Yeah, I've spotted the faggot.

>>94392440
I'm all for a sexy nun, but I'm honestly not a fan of the BDSM costume versions. Same with nurses or maids. I guess part of what makes it hot is a degree of costume authenticity.

>>94392706
Red Sonya, Dark Agnes, and Valeria all showed that REH really has a type. Belit has that 'assertive, violent woman' energy too, but an amusing twist is Conan really DOES prefer 'em mostly naked, and so of course she was the love of his life, lol.

>>94392744
Stygians are mongrelized heavily (or multi ethnic, if you prefer). Negroid Stygians tend to be on the lowest social rungs, whereas the originals (not from the region, originally) were not just white but exceptionally pale. Conan could pass a glance test for a local with his copper skin and dark square-cut hair.

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>>94391762

>>94393046
>pretending scout armour doesn't count as full armour
The Space Yiff who wants to play a Sad Wolf has a place at the table, too.

>>94391496
>Solution B
Your terms are acceptable.

>>94391645
>>94391652
This.
epbp & npbp.
/thread
‘nuff said.
We’re done here.

>>94391516
Wolverine is a male fantasy. If you want to see the ideal male for a woman look at fiction targeted towards women like Twilight.

>>94391496
This only truly matters for videogames, but in those it's easy to just use A and give ways for coomers to acquire B style outfits.
For ttrpgs, the game's designers and artists should just use whatever they prefer, since the art isn't forced into people's individual games anyway
I hate B male outfits. Yeah, I know Conan and Elric illustrations had lots of bdsm gay male whores, still not the style I want in my games.
B female outfit is good for any game, but isn't really the distaff counterpart to the fully armored guy, but more likely some "sword dancer" coombait class

>>94392440
>Lady D
>Kasumi
who are these?

>>94393237
>implying all of the shirtless scenes in old TV shows an in modern marvel slop aren't made for women and fags

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>>94392882

>>94392755
>only males can have power fantasies involving fighting dragons, giant monsters and gods
human men having any chance against the stuff they fight in fiction is also retarded
hell, irl battles are way shorter and prone to random stupid shit than they are in most game, because people know truly realistic battles would be boring and anticlimatic

>>94393237
Wolverine is for women with a daddy kink.

>>94393250
Resident Evil Village and PokemonDead or Alive.

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>>94393259

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>>94393237
>Wolverine
>Muscular, feral man beast who wants to fuck a redhead in a relationship with someone else
>Jacob Black
>Muscular, feral man beast who wants to fuck fuck his classmate's unborn child after she hooked up with a sparkling, geriatric centennial.
Look I'm not saying either are great, but one is definitively way worse than the other. The only conclusion I can reach is that the female power fantasy is gross, and pretty rapey.

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>>94391496
armor should be for fashion, not protection.

>>94393329
>rapey
female fantasies often are, but really the point is always that "you're so hot that this hot, rich, powerful dude who could have everyone is desperate for you and only you".

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>>94391496
>using armor

>>94392882
>those back muscles
Anon please I have work in half an hour.

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>>94392882
when done well that can be insanely badass

>>94392680
>>94392688
>>94392698
Sorry guys, it wasn't for depilating their legs or armpits, it was for head hair. If you make sugar syrup you'll get crunchy and maybe sticky hair but around two teaspoons per cup gives you two-thirds of a cup, after evaporation, of a useful volumiser or texturiser that can help curls stay in place. Like a lot of hair products it can sell today for huge markups. I've seen spray bottles holding less than two-thirds of a cup sold for 50 bucks (US) when the only extra ingredients have been artificial scents. 10 dollars is closer to the typical price though.

>>94393469
Do you think soldiers can depilate, even on the battlefield?

>>94393531
Love can groom.

>>94391496
When I get home I'll make a version where the woman is wearing a dress and holding a pie.

>>94391496
The default for every setting I use is that everybody is half-naked and oiled like they just stepped out the frame of a Frazetta painting. Everybody should be hot. Even fat old evil bastards should look more like an image of bacchanalian revelry with a half open toga and chiseled jawline or something instead of gilded age fatcat.

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now hear me out, what if

>>94393598
oooh so edgy
there are already women in dresses holding pies in all the scenarios anyway likely, there are also men wearing dresses (mages, priests) and men holding pies (cooks)

>>94393824
how do they reproduce?

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>>94391496
Women being capable warriors able to stand up to combatants is already fantastical so putting "realistic" armor on her is trying to fix a problem that is fundamentally flawed to begin with. A female character like Xena is far more believable as a character than Brienne of Tarth is because Xena inhabits a world that understands it's fantasy, instead of one trying to larp as realistic fiction.

If a setting/story puts women in "appropriate" armor and still has her running around kicking just as much ass a 6'3 24 year old man can it's an extremely stupid setting.

>>94391496
Women as fighters/warriors, etc. is already unbelievable, fake, and retarded, so they might as well give them unrealistic but attractive armor.

>>94393884
This. I've been submission wrestling for a decade and it's made me realize that even if a woman is bigger than you, more technical/knowledgeable/skilled than you, she simply cannot generate the same raw explosive force and aggression as a male

>>94393884
>putting "realistic" armor on her is trying to fix a problem
An aesthetic one.

>>94392697
Never thought the day would come where I agree with Mugabe. What a weird timeline we live in.

>>94392928
That was spartan.
Amazonian women weren’t discovered until much later.

>>94394008
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/amazon-women-there-any-truth-behind-myth-180950188/

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>>94391496
You can combine feminine allure with seemingly functional armour. I'd choose that. Bikini armour looks silly. Boob plates and corsets do not.

>>94394088
40k has all three different methods (cadians, sisters, deldar), and i think that's the best way to do it

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>>94393884
only fucking retards believe that women fighters can be as strong as male fighters, women's bodies are optimized for reproduction, which is way more taxing than some seem to believe.
that said, "appropriate" armor can be more about the visuals than about aiming for realism.

Like, pic attached is a useless character who was created explicitly to be "the girl" and "something for Guts to lose", with her rape and near rape scenes being blatant coombait and all the supposed "useful" things she did were just shittier versions of what male characters did better with a lot less effort. But had she always been dressed in stripper armor, her plots wouldn't really have landed.

>>94394041
>Fantasy games including fantasy elements? no way!

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>>94393875
Parthogenesis. Pic related.

>>94394167
Anon. The conversation you aren't having isn't happening outside your head.

>>94391496
Nobody cares
LITERALLY nobody cares
You don't even care
You only want to discuss this because you have no games

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>>94393262
>stabbing through armor with a stick
Yes, and?

You don't need much force to actually kill someone with a sword. It is a sharp object that favours dexterity, not strength.

>>94393824
>>94393875
>>94394239
Yurifags in bodybags.

>>94391496
Remove the woman entirely. The man can wear whatever.

>>94393875
after they retire from adventuring, they settle with their (male) husbands and take mundane jobs/give birth to a bunch of babies.

>>94394388
>>94391762
>>94393121
literal homosexuals

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>>94391496
I support sexy armour, but only for Elves!

>>94393906
>high school wrestling team gf wants to wrestle in bed
>gets mad when I casually pin her without effort or training

The difference is so large I wonder how sheltered people have to be to ignore or downplay it.

>>94391496
A and B.

>>94391496
That there isn't a problem.

>>94391496
option A unless its a really goofy ahh tongue and cheek setting.

>>94393848
>reality is edgy

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All. All is Good

>>94392477
>Hobbit battle butlers and clown goblins
Probably the 2nd most retarded part of your post is thinking these wouldn't be awesome.

>>94391787
>House cats did do fighting from time to time so it;s realistic for House cat Warriors to be a thing.
When did housecats fight battles in war?

>>94391496
I'm on the side of *no* armor.

>>94393237

Hot chick
> Male sex fantasy, she's obviously just eye candy, any man enjoying this is a sexist, all fiction must be changed
Hot dude
> Male power fantasy, obviously just there for self-insert, any man enjoying this is obviously a sexist, all fiction must be changed
Amazing how feminist critical theory always finds a way to absolve women of any responsibility and to blame men for everything

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That's why prefer girls filling the rogue/ninja role.

>>94393329
As someone who writes female erotica, yes. Fiction targeted towards women generally has pretty rapey vibes if not in outright force than in subtle control.
>This guy is a billionaire who inexplicably falls in love with an average looking woman and showers her with gifts... at a price
>This guy is a handsome vampire prince who falls in love with an average looking woman offering her immortality... whether or not she wants it
>This guy is a werewolf who can mark an unborn woman as his future mate... and she will want it

Women tend like the idea of having a powerful man either physically or in terms of status but their ideal in appearance tends to be closer to a metrosexual dudebro than a wild man with a beard, hulking muscles, and tons of body hair.

>>94391496
Would girls even want B?

>>94395019
yes, you're a retard, we get it.

>>94395042
>filling the rogue/ninja role
you mean aesthetics
Misao was useless, same with Kaoru.
Megumi was the only female character who didn't feel useless, and it's unsurprising since unlike the others, she had a role that couldn't be done better by a 9 years old boy.

>>94393329
>>94395090
To talk about this in a bit more detail, women are generally discouraged from being open and forward about their sexual urges, so their fantasities tend to involve them being "forced" into a relationship so they avoid openly expressing their desires while still getting exactly what they want.

It's sort of the same way that male power fantasies involving sex are often transactional: the men are "rewarded" sex for their actions, allowing them to sidestep traditional courtship and such. It lets guys avoid having to thinking about engaging emotionally with a partner.

>>94395100
yes

>>94395324
>It's sort of the same way that male power fantasies involving sex are often transactional: the men are "rewarded" sex for their actions, allowing them to sidestep traditional courtship and such. It lets guys avoid having to thinking about engaging emotionally with a partner.
This also allows to pretty much get the woman by doing something cool and badass they wanted to do anyway.

>>94395123
This. He's right, though.

>>94395090
One of the most popular genres of amateur fiction for women is bully reverse harems, where multiple different flavors of bully compete over who can abuse and monopolize the self-insert feMC the most. Think Diabolik Lovers but worse.

>>94394447
I can't really blame them if they're just tomboyish kids/teens who want to project themselves into a cool female character doing awesome things.
Just like some sort of fantasy setting where only women can do cool shit (not necessarily fighting) but men are would not be very attractive for non tranny boys.
But yeah, women who are already adults and still believe "women can be as physically strong as men!" are retards, and can only convince themselves by using irl freaks (such as people with odd genetic conditions) as non trans examples.

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>>94392497
Well?

>>94395423
>nice with devoted following = ALL WOMEN ARE INTO THIS!
japanese women seem to be huge into masochism, western otome fans are often complaining about how doormat otome protagonists are.

>>94395447
>can't even spell
lol

>>94393848
You've listed men and holding pies as two separate groups but are there men in dresses holding pies at the same time? Except for eating purposes Before anyone takes it over the edge I mean the pies are for eating, not the men

>>94391496
This is a bait thread, but to get more detailed, this fantasy doesn't just exist in a sort of abstract vacuum. That's why people draw ire with the first example. It's more than just some sense of internal consistency to the fiction, which apparently anons will defend with the tired "either it's all okay or none of it's okay", since the setting is fantasy, so it's all fantastical, so whatever kind of inconsistency is fine. I find that sort of uninspiring and cynical, but whatever, the entire line of argument kind of misses the point.
The idea is more that we should probably question why we enjoy this certain kind of inconsistency, rather than just taking it at face value and "liking what we like" and decrying anyone else as "shitting on the fun", or being a buzzkill, or not understanding the hobby.
The common cultural criticism, as brought up in this thread, is that the alleged problem appeals more to the male gaze than to the female gaze, which has been discussed.
If you wanted something that appealed to the female gaze more (which isn't actually a real solution), then probably solution B would look less skimpy overall, have a less conventionally attractive male character, that's probably more twinkish, well dressed, and well groomed.
More than that, though, I would sort of question the injection of things that are basically explicit sexual fantasies injected into otherwise flatline escapist media. I would also question the tendency to turn all media into some explicitly escapist outlet from the real world. All media interfaces with, takes from, regurgitates, ideas thrown around in the real world. Trying to divorce fantasy media from that on the basis that it is fantastical is kind of a fool's errand. People walk into this media, intentionally, with moral value sets, both aesthetic and explicit, they seek out "escapist" media which lines up with those moral value sets, media that reaffirms their already held beliefs, confirms their biases.

>>94396021
I would question that totally mindless approach to media. It doesn't do anything with the media, it doesn't question which values are good, for the individual and society, and it doesn't seek to do anything with media in order to make people question those values or take a firm stance as to what values are even good. It just mindlessly replicates and regurgitates, more slop for the machine.
You shouldn't really be arguing about which example is more or less "realistic", you should be arguing about which value set, that each piece of media propagates, has value to be pushing in society.
Obviously then the conversation gets pushed to, a lot of anons justifying women being dressed in skimpy outfits, "conforming to the male gaze" or whatever, because it's sort of, their ontologically or evolutionarily, ordained position in society, to be male eye candy, and for men to, I suppose in this instance, work in the arts?
I don't think I should have to tell anyone that this is sort of an antisocial perspective to have, given that women entail half of the human population. Should only have to look five posts up to see the fruits of it.

>>94391496
Can you name 5 traditional games made within the last 15 years where the alleged problem exists?

>>94396134
D&D 5e does, and it absolutely controls the hobby

>>94396138
What are you smoking where you think 5e presents hot chicks in bikini armor as the default?

>>94393098
Conan openly states he prefers women with a "fire" to them. There are even instances where the heroine of the week doesn't even register to him until she does something spirited or cool.

>>94396134
Most people who complain about this "problem" are the same people who complain about things being "generic." They have no idea what they're on about outside of standing stereotypes from decades past. If you see anyone complain about anything there almost certainly hasn't been a real example in years because people have been trying to subvert, challenge or parody shit for so long it's more novel when you see something that would get called "generic."

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>>94391496
I advocate for B specifically because women don't actually like it.

>>94396930
False

>>94396932
True. They greatly prefer stripper characters.

>>94395631
The women in dresses could easily just hold the pies to eat them.
Or the priest could have a cooling hobby

>>94391546
The vast majority of popular fantasy systems function on supernatural tiers far beyond a point where human sexual dimorphism remains a salient excuse for women not fighting. We're different, but not so different it makes any difference at a scale you're fighting giants and dragons.

>>94396939
Yeah, and B is the stripper solution.

>>94396940
Cooking

>>94395447
Niche

Then again "haha you made a typo XD" is proof anons have nothing better to say. >>94395491

>>94396962
Pies are too hot to eat straight out of the oven so why can't priests have a cooling hobby?

>>94392440
The Lady D vs Kasumi thing is mostly argued in the sense of portrayal.

Lady D being hot is "empowering" because she's hot in the way women perceive hotness cultivated for one's own self-esteem and she clearly revels in her own hotness.
Kasumi meanwhile is... dressed as a whore despite not doing any seduction and being consistently shown to be embarrassed by her outfit. Her outfits aren't consistent with her personality, and so for women her hotness only works in terms of being contextless eyecandy.

>>94396952
"I like to look at chainmail bikini" is a perfectly valid answer, it's fantasy. And "Humans shouldn't fight dragons it's fake and gay" is also a valid answer, you can prefer realism in your fantasy, though I don't know what game you'd actually play if that's what you were looking for. But it's such a weird contortion to say "women are weaker than men IRL and realism matters and that's why they should wear silly unrealistic costumes". It's not a realistic argument, because the real world doesn't have game balance, people just do what they have to and most fights are unfair. But it's also against the spirit of fantasy because it rejects the idea of the heroic underdog.

>>94391496
A is the default for the most generic starting territory, B is the default for the desert terrain area.
Alternatively, they're just strength fighters and dexterity fighters

>>94396962
You seem upset.

>>94397129
yeah because I keep typing like shit accidentally lol

>>94391496
porque no los dos?

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>>94396993

Realistically, humans wouldn't fight something big like a dragon with five dudes attempting to kill it with a sword. They would use siege weapons, traps, harpoons, and warmachines. It would be a brawns vs brain kinda thing and strength in numbers.

>>94391496
Both can be bad but option a is best
Good armor will look good and badass(maybe even sexy) option B is thurst based unless you are in THE dungeon then you will need anything.

>>94395441

Perfection.

>>94391496
i vote for the first one, "alleged problem".

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>>94395441
>consider this

>>94391496
Neither
There's no boob plate

>>94395459
Don't really care, I adore it
Any lady who could even try to be a knight, 10/10 lass.

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>>94395441
I approve.

>>94398035
>now post the second pic

>>94391496
Solution C: Get rid of female fighters entirely
Kills two historically inaccurate birds with one stone

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>>94397846
But dragons are not big animals with fleshy hides, they are mythical creatures that can only be killed by brave/cunning/destined characters or ultra intelligent magical lizards, fantasy dragons have both the brain and the brawn. Also mammoths can't fly and don't eat people or have skin that's immune to most primitive weapons. At best its cavemen trying to kill a theropod dinosaur that smarter than they are.

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I like the Barsoom approach where wearing medium/heavy armor is considered dishonorable.

>>94398415
>historical accuracy
>/tg/
lmao

>>94391496

I reject the notion that there is a problem to begin with. Let people dress their fake ass characters however the fuck they want.

>>94397997
>no boobplate

Well, that's clearly excellent armor. I see no objections here.

I like the heart-shaped breathing holes.

>>94391496
The side of traditional games

>>94396980
OK, but what women think doesn't matter, Kasumi isn't for them.

>>94396980
>Lady D being hot is "empowering" because she's hot in the way women perceive hotness cultivated for one's own self-esteem and she clearly revels in her own hotness.
It's "empowering" because femdom is safe-horny.

>>94394239

We've been through this. "RIFTS did it" is not a valid excuse for anything, including breathing.

>>94395128

Yes, but in Japan, all 9 year old boys are hyper-intelligent polymath hyperkinetic Tony Starks without the drinking problem.

Hence why they considered it normal for Chris Redfield to be a former Airforce Major at 23, Jill to be Ex-Delta Force (originally, before they made her a DEI hire with a B&E rapsheet) and Barry presumably was a formerly retired Colonel in... I dunno the fucking Green Berets?

>>94398591

Wearing clothes AT ALL is considered weird on Barsoom. Everyone is naked apart from some strategically placed jewellry.

>>94391496
My only issues Is I wouldn't call B armor.

>>94399064
It's more about how Misao and Kaoru were supposed "action girls" but in reality were just useless, when even the kid can mog them.

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>>94393237

>>94392778
Exception, you mean. Illiterate retard.

>>94392835
It's the correct position. You can fuck off if you don't like it.

>>94393262
How do you manage to write a comic that's 90% sex jokes week after week without ever stumbling into figuring out how to draw attractive people

>>94395123
Concession accepted.

>>94396021
Men and women are different, serve different functions, are attractive in different ways, and should not be treated as if they're interchangeable.

>>94396111
They don't propagate any value set. No one wants to look at men.

>>94396980
Why do women assume their mental states matter to anyone?

>>94399351
>wtf people showing skin in porn?
dude you're replying to said Twilight, which also does contain muscular shirtless scenes.
anyway it's dumb to argue that wolverine wasn't presented as fanservice for women/gays.
And even Conan and 80s fantasy stuff often had a gay bdsm aesthetic.

>>94399426
>are attractive in different ways
sure, but what's attractive still depends on what the audience likes, not just what 1 specific straight dude likes

>>94398415
Why would a world that isn't earth have earth's history?

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You guys need to check out the Barbarians of Lemuria French Edition thread >>94389769

>>94391496
Remove the woman entirely. She shouldn't be in combat

>>94399450
Why are there male power fantasies in media that's exclusively for women? You aren't going to dodge the question a second time, surely?

>>94399457
No. Attractiveness is not subjective.

>>94391714
There have probably been more child soldiers than woman ones

>>94391714
>so it's realistic to have lady warriors and the like
lmao no it's not. Have your lil fetish femfighters power fantasy all you want but don't try to sell it as realism, lil bro.

>>94399458
historical as in the universe's history dumb dumb, where do you think all fiction comes from?
women are intrinsically weaker across all worlds, it is known

>>94399472
>Remove the woman entirely.
This. It's fantasy, so it makes sense that men procreate through butt pregnancies.

>>94391496
All of the above. Have your armor be functional. Have slutty fanservice for boys or girls if you like. Or go full retard and put giant pauldrons and armor so thick it looks like it's carved from stone.

It's your table, not a video game. It's about you and your friends, not society. Do whatever the fuck you want.

>>94399478
You're too retarded as I'm obviously not the same anon (I clearly disagreed about wolverine).
So just keep arguing with your imaginary enemies, concession, whatever.

>>94392697
The very rare Comrade Bob W.

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>>94397846
>They would use siege weapons, traps, harpoons, and warmachines.
That's stupid, they should use a mech instead

>>94392790
>What about hobbits fighting in battle? Or goblins fighting in battle?
But if they *need* to fight then Hobbits and Goblins don't have any alternative or options do they lmao.
Unless you're talking about some kind of multiracial army in which case yes it would be pretty fucking stupid to position your Hobbits on the frontline instead of your adult human men.

>>94392928
>routinely hack off entire tits by choice in the days before antiseptics and antibiotics
That never happened.

>>94393906
>he needed a decade of first-hand experience in sports to realise this
God young people are so mindfucked by propaganda now.

What was once as obvious and widely known as 'the sky is blue' is now some secret hidden lore you can only discover through first-hand experience because the enforced cultural narrative around it is just a colossal lie.
Like most zoomers actually, genuinely believe that 'a bit of training' will let an average chick btfo an average man.
Fucking retards.

>>94400176
nobody said that, retard
they're obviously fantasy figures

>>94396952
>We're different, but not so different it makes any difference at a scale you're fighting giants and dragons.
I think you're incredibly ignorant and delusional as to just how different they are.
Think 'adult man' and '12 year-old child' different. And not just physically.

>>94400176
Know what else didn't happen? The amazons.

>>94399572
No.

>>94399627
No, you will answer me.

>>94399434
Don't be a retarded male misandrist.

>>94400330
>fantasy women
>look like ducks
>walk like ducks
>talk like ducks
>but they're ackshually equal to men in physical prowess
Nah. If you wanna do that shit then fill your world with roided up muscle women.

>>94400458
>like ducks
>Hating on glorantha
Lame

>>94400458
You're genuinely stupid. The reason why things are the way they are is because most people want their cake and to eat it too by having women who aren't useless background characters while also still being physically appealing to men.

It's all dumb. Draw what you fucking want and ignore the hand wringing from morons that can't engage their imagination.

>>94393237
this was always the wierdest argument for me. "I'm not personally into this bodytype so therefore no woman is."
No, not every woman is only into the bishi otter mode bodytype. Believe it or not, different people have different preferences!

>>94400759
even in Twilight it'd seem that the vampire was skinnier and shown shirtless less often than the more muscular werewolf

>>94398591
Don't they use fucking nuke bullets? What's armor gonna do? Let you cook more evenly?

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I kept this in reserve for this thread.

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>>94391645
This.

Just accept the challenge and justify the craziest armors.
Aim above "it's magic lulz!"

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>>94395441
Finally someone who get it!

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He would fit very well on 4chan.

>>94391496
women in armour is inherently unrealistic. There is no fix for said alleged problem.

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>>94396021
>This is a bait thread, but
>>94396111
The 2 faces of anon.

Not to insult the effort you put in this but you can summarize.
- yes it's catering to sexual fantasies, and the public is usually male.
- yes people STILL appreciate self-consistency.
- yes we will fight over the dumbest things as some see everything as a "culture war" instead of being happy there's variety for everyone.

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I do like immodest women.

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I don't care as long as it is tasteful and fit in the setting
Standard are meant to be raised, not lowered.

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>>94399462
That guy get it

>>94401282
>w*men fighting
>tasteful
LOL

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>>94397846
>Realistically
To be fair, the same logic that allow dragons to exist make some human more dangerous than an army with siege weapons.
I do prefer a more balanced setting where dragon exist and are feared because it is near impossible to kill one, and they won't even let themselves be baited in a trap like a castle door falling on them.

>armor
Jokes on you, the last character I played was an oiled up monk from a nude combat cult who would simply FLEX to deflect blows.

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I don't see the problem.

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Just have more girls in armor,
As simple as that.

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This will trigger 40k fag

>>94391496
Reminder that people who brought us combat wheelchairs were the same ones who claimed bikini armor is "unrealistic".

>>94401458
I'm pretty sure 40Kfags are used to shitty armor and ugly bitches by now.

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>>94391496
is the raccoon a girl and does she have a fat ass?

My further course of action depends on the answer

>>94392706
>Conan wears armor any time he can get it
Actually false. He's shirtless way more than armored. He only wears armor a handful of times in the stories. Most of the time he relies on his "Panther reflexes" or sheer will to avoid or tank damage.
The only story where he actually says that armor does him any good is Beyond The Black River and in there he's already starting to get old.

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>>94401379
It's the shield

>>94401444
Extremely based

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>>94401459
but armor looks cool

>>94392895
>Shooting a bow bare-cgested with breasts is pretty dangerous.
Only for an amateur. Proper form makes it a nonissue. Just another myth

>>94401459
The angry dude looks and acts exactly like the last character I played as in d&d 5e

>>94401529
>Actually false. He's shirtless way more than armored.
More like he strips as the action gets hotter.

He also generally only wears his undies whenever he's performing break-ins.

>>94401617
Surprisingly, even when stripped naked and put in a dungeon Conan always wears sandals.

>>94393237
Retard

>>94395324
>women are generally discouraged from being open and forward about their sexual urges
Be other women. Men absolutely love it when woman are upon and forward, but good luck getting a woman to listen to a man about anything.

>>94401823
>Be other
By other
>Upon and forward
Open and forward
Fuck this phone's retarded autocorrect

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>>94393237
>>94395324
Please just kill yourself

>>94397846
That works about as well as trying to kill a tiger with a magnifying glass in many settings.

>>94401758
Shoe fetishism >>>> foot fetishism

>>94401823
>Be other women. Men absolutely love it when woman are upon and forward,
Nah, it just means it's an easy lay

>>94400458
This logic reeks of some retard-tier insecurity. You're of the mindset that women are worse than men IRL and that disdain means all fantasy settings *must* conform to what makes you disdainful towards women, otherwise it's somehow an attack on your masculinity.

Me? If IRL women aren't "good enough" then I'd rather fantasy portray them as better than in reality. Far as I'm considered, beauty and competence combined is a lot hotter than purely ego-driven devotion to historical accuracy.

>>94401823
>Men absolutely love it when woman are upon and forward
That's what men like to tell themselves. Same way people tell themselves they hate liars, or respect honesty, or appreciate moral codes. All those things are only true until they become the mildest inconvenience.

Sure, some do. Plenty probably do. But history in so many cultures wouldn't be as it is if men broadly appreciated women being forward and direct about their desires.

>>94401259
>yes we will fight over the dumbest things as some see everything as a "culture war" instead of being happy there's variety for everyone.
This is a insane interpretation of >>94396021 because its a incredibly pro-culture war post

How do you see someone say stuff like
>The idea is more that we should probably question why we enjoy this certain kind of inconsistency...
>More than that, though, I would sort of question the injection of things that are basically explicit sexual fantasies injected into otherwise flatline escapist media
And summarize it as being against culture war stuff? It implies there might be something wrong because you enjoyed a book or movie with a sexy woman and that might be wrong for reasons the post avoids directly stating.

>>94402052
>>The idea is more that we should probably question why we enjoy this certain kind of inconsistency...
>>More than that, though, I would sort of question the injection of things that are basically explicit sexual fantasies injected into otherwise flatline escapist media
nta but questioning it doesn't mean necessarily discarding or censoring it. It can just be acknowledging it (whether as creators' preferences or "artistic integrity" or as player's preferences or "following the money") rather than taking it as baseline.
"it" being the slut armor obviously.

>>94391496
Solution B.

>>94402046
Absolute hard cope on revisionist history.
The norse, greeks, romans, german, celts and french all had large period of celebrating women being up-front. Not every culture is meiji japan retard.

>>94402046
I think you're confusing being upfront with being bossy or slutty anon. Plenty of culture actively encouraged woman actually being honest rather than the weird double-meaning and read-my-mind games of the modern era(that largely have their roots in victorian england's backwards version of christianity)

>>94401259
The first example appeals to no one.
The purpose of an entertainment product is to be appealing to sell copies.

>>94400458
No.

>>94399627
Well?

>>94402718
Men love it when a woman is SEXUALLY forward towards THEM. A woman being sexually forward towards someone else was trash. A woman being self-possessed or ideologically forward was worse than trash. Our modern western concept of unigender personhood makes us an extreme outlier in the grand scheme of history.

>>94402876
>The first example appeals to no one.
lol
You people are just so dim.

>>94402735
>I think you're confusing being upfront with being bossy or slutty anon.

Part of the problem is that a lot of men confuse being upfront with being bossy and/or slutty. That's why they say they like it in practice, but don't in actuality.

>>94403632
No, I'm correct.

>>94402046
In what way do you believe history would be different, specifically?

I find it kinda uplifting that the OP was clearly meant to trigger grogs, and yet here in the heart of grog misogyny everyone supports B.

>>94404041
It kinda helps that even the comic is shitting on the idea twice over.

>>94403566
You have no idea what you're talking about at all and you need to take your horseshit back to /pol/. This board is about robot minifigs and elf pretend games.

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>>94401458
Why did the artist make a female space marine?

>>94404041
>grog misogyny everyone supports B
Read the thread again. The whole comic was easily debunked in three points that can be summarized.

1. Women fighting is inherently unrealistic, so having unrealistic armor is not a problem.
2. Fantasy needs to be appealing, and option A is appealing to Fantasy fans. Option B is not appealing and is only pushed by activists pushing an agenda.
3. Men and women are different and in all cultures they always wore different clothes. They never wore the same thing.

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>>94391496
Default and B, I just want less on girls.

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>>94402052
My turn to wonder how you could misread my post that hard?
I shouldn't have to explain this.
Who do you think I targeted when I said some believe everything is culture war? Or what I meant with the two faces of anon?
Everything said by that post (yours?) come with a double standard caused by the very bias/irrational values mentioned because their personal interests are not aligned, and so they will always find something dumb to argue about.

Why? Because surprise! Human are hardwired to seek consistency, it's a survival mechanism. That's what anon do seeking something that match his taste and belief.

This thread is barely a jest on people who treat OP conundrum as incompatible when all that matter is execution.
Here, have another "solution".
I'm tempted to make one, mixing upper and lower armor.

>>94404352
>modern mortal kombat

>>94392440
Both of these are disgusting animu garbage and you should probably just kill yourself if you find it sexy in any way. There is something very wrong with your brain

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I my games, beast races wear the skimpiest armor because they already are protected from the elements

>>94404095
Its not about being a corporate bootlicker either so why should we tolerate you pushing your sick authoritarian ideology here?

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A humble contribution in the spirit of free and open debate.

>>94404376
Armor isn't for protecting you from the fucking weather...

>>94393237
silence, beta

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>>94391496
>Which side are you on?
Every side, especially mine.

>>94404376
Based as fuck

>>94401444
It's why MonHun is best, it has every flavour you could want

>>94401122
if I'm doing "magic lol" I'd make sure the armor has a bodystocking because I inherently don't trust invisible forcefield enchantments

>>94404376
Anon, armor is generally dogshit for bad weather. Anything meant to protect you from the elements is worn underneath.

>>94401122
I mean if magic enchantments are equivalent to good armor then why have skimpy armor in the first place instead of just stylish enchanted clothes?

>>94404453
The bottom right pic is the best in my opinion

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>>94391496

I find it amusing that the female armour from the solution A is more realistic than male one in ALL versions.

>>94404395

Well by the same spirit. I will not read or participate in your settings because I heavily dislike your trash aesthetics.

>>94391496

This is why fantasy is inherently lowbrow literature and that's being generous.

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>>94391496

Solution C.

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>>94391496
>mfw I find A and B hot

>>94391496
I will go with proposed solution C:
Men use realistic armor
Women arent fighters and so dont wear armor

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>>94404638
Because more magic rules of the highest sophistication (plus suspected divine joke) require them to be skimpy to work.
And who said they were equivalent?

You sir, couldn't minmax to save your life.

>>94405663
>and then they all died to anti-magic and basic arrows.
Skimpy armor is fine for fashion statements by retarded nobles, just like how cod-pieces are IRL, but there are very basic rules of combat that become immuntable once you get into the cocaine-addled-korean difficulty level of the fantasy leaderboard of power-levels.
The only settings with a counterargument to this are weaboo-fightan-magic settings where research and development are so backwards that manufacturing armor that scales with your totally-not-a-leveling-system cultivation is next too impossible and effective anti-magic is too rare to be a factor. Those guys unfortunately wear the same robes 24/7 though even when they could all be rocking the conan look easily.

>>94404638
Simple, the less material, the greater the enchantment density.

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>>94391496

>>94405790
>muh safehorny
Nah

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>>94404376

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>>94405717
>basic arrows
We call it magic armor implying it does the job of armor.
If you remove that, why the fuck is magic in your setting? Just a light show to impress peasants?

>anti-magic arrows
Sure... if it's an easily available and cheap resources.
Forcing enemies to prepare such arrows is already a pressure, and maybe it will be for naught because... you have a non-magical shield that you can carry easily thanks to your strength enhancing loincloth, which somehow gain a +10 for being extra sexy.
Everything has a counter, one of those happen to be magic armor that something need to be skimpy.

Thread will likely die before we can get deep into those arguments.
Good magic setting have rules that lead to the desired balance, filling gaps with artistic license.
Skimpy armor can be justified in many ways, all naysayers can say is "lol I don't care!", dragging quality down, believing they are the smartass.

>>94406598
Doesn't need to be justified, and shouldn't be. You're the one dragging quality down.

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>>94394433
Even the male elves?

>>94391516
The issue is that most instances of what appear like solution B, like your picture, arent really solution B. Solution B is to sexualize men just as much as women are sexualized, the pictured barbarian is more a strength male fantasy than an actual sex fantasy. He needs more sugestive clothing rather than less but overall functional clothing.

>>94391787
>But it is a lot of fun.
Why do you find it more fun than the alternative equality informed setting?

>>94404395
Pictured anon will then go on unhinged and lengthy rants about how Rey is a gigantic mary sue or how some other inane fiction is totally unrealistic because it doesnt fit his personal politics or kinks.

>>94408482
You really don't need a long rant to explain that Rey is a gigantic mary sue, you're just the tard that gets mad about it and doesn't listen to reason.

>>94391496
Dont care. Play games.

>>94409412
I do though