Could the Clans have taken the Inner Sphere with their numbers if they didn't insist on tribal/warrior society retardation? >no batchall>"dishonorable" tactics permitted>every crusader clan gets an invasion corridor if they want to join
>>94392116They're still outnumber a thousand to one.
>>94392116No, but it would have been a thousand times bloodier and probably featured even more clan infighting. Even if you remove the clanner stupidity, they still despise one another.
>>94392116Even with full batchall and honourable treatment of everybody, they could have gotten all the way to Terra first time around had they not stopped at the halfway point and decided to fight each other for a century.
>>94392116>Could the Clans have taken the Inner Sphere with their numbers if they didn't insist on tribal/warrior society retardation?Probably, but they still took Inner Sphere, so strong sides of clan culture prevailed above the drawbacks
>>94392186>theyWho is they? This is actually Kathy's last and greatest prank on the Inner Sphere.
>>94392210>Who is they?Clan WolfClan Jade FalconClan Sea FoxClan Smoke JaguarClan Ghost BearClan Snow RavenClan Hell's Horse By 33th century Third Star league, based on clan society rules over Inner Sphere unopposed
>>94392228>Clan Jade FalconStill coping over the ilClan trial, huh?
>>94392247>Still coping over the ilClan trial, huh?Wut?My point is that even after all casualties CJF took on Terra they and other clans still conquered IS
>>94392116Oh God, this is why I can't take the Clans seriously. Sure, many societies had honor codes, but they used it as an excuse for brutality. Across sci-fi, the Clans are perhaps the only faction that acts like other people should know and respect their rules of engagement.They basically turn up to actual deathmatchs wielding nerf swords.
>>94392116They fact they took anything at all when they're so extremely outnumbered is inherently retarded. Blitz through defenses and smash shit apart planet to planet? Sure that's at least somewhat believable with their tech advantage and warship. Actually conquer and hold more than a handful of low population worlds for longer than a couple years? Absolutely not.Remember they're entire civilization is centered around five worlds. They should have no idea how to manage the amount of worlds they have in their occupation zones. Sure Comstar did a lot of that for them at the start, but that relationship fell through pretty early so it still makes no sense.
>>94392210>filenameI kek’d
>>94392273>but they used it as an excuse for brutalityYeah but in case of Clans it's used to negate collateral damage and mediate the said brutality.Quite interesting
>>94392275>Remember they're entire civilization is centered around five worlds.Lorelet?>They should have no idea how to manage the amount of worlds they have in their occupation zones.Europeans had no problem with figuring out how to manage huge landmasses of their colonies
>>94392293>Lorelet?Most worlds in the Kerensky Cluster are somehow even less habitable than the Pentagon Worlds. IIRC York was the only one ever described as self-sufficient.>Europeans had no problem with figuring out how to manage huge landmasses of their coloniesEuropean countries weren't caste-based shitholes dominated by their warrior-class.
>>94392273>Across sci-fi, the Clans are perhaps the only faction that acts like other people should know and respect their rules of engagement.This actually happened fairly often in history.The difference is that historically people dropped it the moment they saw that their opponents weren't.>>94392293>Europeans had no problem with figuring out how to manage huge landmasses of their coloniesEuropeans largely left thing alone and simply collected huge taxes. For example, in India or Indonesia, the British and Dutch (respectively) relied on local nobles to do most of the oppression for them. Same for everyone in most of Africa; only in Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, South Africa, Mozambique, and Angola did European powers actually try to "impose order". Even then it was limited to the cities.Whereas while we see this a bit, we also see the Clans imposing their system in the IS. By the Dark Age, the Ghost Bears have completely Clan'd their holdings; IRL, no colony saw this level of assimilation after a hundred years.
>>94392311>European countries weren't caste-based shitholesQuite false.>>94392337>Indonesia>huge landmasses>Same for everyone in most of Africa; only in Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, South Africa, Mozambique, and Angola did European powers actually try to "impose order". Even then it was limited to the cities.And Australia, and North America and South America>Whereas while we see this a bit, we also see the Clans imposing their system in the IS.Because turned out it wasn't very different from soace feudalism in the Successor States
>>94392311>European countries weren't caste-based shitholes>Iberian Colonial Empires had shitton of laws applying to 50 shades of mestizos, each of which was given different rights >French created caste of creoles>Anglo colonies built caste system based on the English feudal hierarchyAnd please tell me how exactly, Kennedy, Clinton and Bush aren't bloodhouses?
>>94392408There is an extreme distinction between treating your conquered colonial peoples and their mixed race descendants as varying degrees of second class citizen and willingly dividing your entire society into structured castes as a feature.Comparing Clan castes to how colonial powers divided things up like it’s a remotely fair comparison seems insane.especially since Clanners arguably treated their spheroid subjects better than they treat their own clan
>>94392382>And Australia, and North America and South AmericaNo...they completely displaced and replaced folks in Oz and NA. South America was more complicated, but the Spanish completely replaced the uppermost levels of society and brought the other upper layers in, forcing assimilation. In India, Africa, and most of Indonesia, they just wholesale left the ruling castes in place and skimmed the money off (with some exceptions, but not many).
>>94392408The Clans' ruling caste is identical to the feudal ruling classes of the IS, but only the Capellans have a formal caste system below that level, and it's much less rigid than the Clans'. And definitely no other nation tries to tell people who they have to marry at a governmental level (this is a major grievance in the Dark Age).
>>94392408None of those places have the extremely rigid caste system of the clans where there is essentially no upward mobility aside from making it into the warrior-caste. Especially if you're born an Elemental. Even in the IS where feudalism is the way of life you have ways to escape your station and change your life. Clanners are almost always just stuck where they're born, unless they happen to be born in a caste you can fail down in.>And please tell me how exactly, Kennedy, Clinton and Bush aren't bloodhouses?We call those families in the Inner Sphere. Sometimes rich people have them too.
>>94392504>There is an extreme distinction between treating your conquered colonial peoples and their mixed race descendants as varying degrees of second class citizen and willingly dividing your entire society into structured castes as a feature.There is difference, but on fucntional level it's not as drastic as you trying to present.>>94392512>No...they completely displaced and replaced folks in Oz and NA.Yep even despite the fact they had no idea how to rule such vaste territory before Colonial Empire were formed.That's my point. People learn quickly. Even Jade Falcon pretty quickly dropped the idea of moving spheroids from large cities into enclave-like sttlements
It's sorta funny how some anons are trying to use European colonies as a way to justify how the Clan Occupation Zones have lasted so long and just brush over the fact that the vast majority of those colonies are independent now, and a significant chunk of the world celebrated some form of independence day from European rule.
>>94392542To add to it, you can't move up but you can most certainly move down, a clanner born in the warrior caste can wash out and be placed into a lower caste if they don't cut it, assuming the even survive to do that, which just adds even further resentment of the system when you have those warrior caste trueborn, who were told how important they were all their lives, being thrown out of the ruling caste. Hell the a significant chunk of the science caste resented being under the warriors so much that they planned out a massive coup over the course of decades.
>>94392116If they brought their entire WarShip fleet and threatened to repeat the Turtle Bay incident on any planet that didn't surrender, maybe.Inner Sphere at the time had no WarShips (well, ComStar had a couple of light WarShips hidden in the Sol system and knew the location of mothballed SLDF ships, but they probably wouldn't have been able to return the latter to service at the time), and aerospace fighters were even rarer than battlemechs (and also while on the tabletop ASF squadrons rape WarShips in the lore that isn't the case) so they'd have next to no way to stop the Clans from parking a ship in low orbit and threatening to glass the planetary capital unless the population immediately surrendered.
>>94392626Thats only because America intentionally bankrupted the British Empire between 1914 and ‘45 and the British artistocratic youth was annihilated. The Clans kept their balls. Don’t know if some of you guys have ever played Battletech. Clan mechs are OP in every way and absolutely decimate IS. Its the most unbalanced faction disparity I’ve encountered in any game.
>>94392337>By the Dark Age, the Ghost Bears have completely Clan'd their holdings; IRL, no colony saw this level of assimilation after a hundred years.IIRC the Bears stopped trying to actually impose their culture on the natives quite quickly, until after the Wolves took Terra and they tried to suck up to Alaric by forcibly Clannifying their population and triggering a civil war in the process. Before that the biggest thing they did was to roll up the native military units into the Clan touman and institute warrior caste trials to new recruits. Mostly the Clanners stuck to their own fortified enclaves and barely interacted with the natives.In fact, from Jihad to ilClan era they had a steady trend of granting the native Rasalhagians more say in the government. The whole reason they change the name from Ghost Bear Dominion to Rasalhague Dominion was because they made the Rasalhagian parliament the official governing body, with the elected prince as the head of state, with the Clan khans officially just being the leaders of the state's military. In practice the khan was still in charge since controlling the military gives you a lot if leverage, but the fact that they even had to pretend to give the natives control of the state shows they were aware that their position was reliant on maintaining the goodwill of the natives.
>>94392626The ones where Europeans moved in and established themselves as the ruling class still have them on place. Even in Central and South America, the rich and powerful are almost all fairly pure whites.
>>94392626Fortunately, Battletech is not static. As mixed as the reception to the Clan Invasion, FedCom Civil War, Jihad, and Dark Ages were, they all ended. The ilClan Era will presumably at some point end and we’ll see whatever the consequences are of Kathrine Steiner-Davion’s last attempt to piss on her brother ending.Hopefully it ends with Clan Smoke Jaguar going extinct a second time.
>>94392719>IIRC the Bears stopped trying to actually impose their culture on the natives quite quickly, until after the Wolves took Terra and they tried to suck up to Alaric by forcibly Clannifying their population and triggering a civil war in the process.You recall wrong. Trial by Chaos shows that the Clan system is pretty strongly in place, and Doninions Divided (I think) mentions how happy everyone qas when the Eugenics Program was stopped for civilians, which means it was in place before.The Bears had a light touch in 3060. That changed over time, even as they let the Rasalhagues have pretend representation
>>94392726>the rich and powerful are almost all fairly pure whites.Not falling for this, Pablo.
>>94392736>Kathrine Steiner-Davion’s last attempt to piss on her brotherI don't think that's the direction she was hoping for the liss to flow.
>>94392743Just because it didn’t turn out how she intended doesn’t absolve her of responsibility.
>>94392311>European countries weren't caste-based shitholes dominated by their warrior-class.Explain Germany then.
>>94392746I meant she wanted Victor to pee on her, in a literal and sexual manner. She clearly had daddy issues which she then projected onto her brother. If Victor had just spanked her then fucked her, the entire Civil War could have been avoided. The fact that he fucked all the other princesses probably hurt, too.
>>94392275In a genre where authors are generally awful with numbers and scale, Battletech is even worse than most. There have been many battles in real world history with a 6 or 7 digit number of combatants. Clanners being expected to take planets with cluster (battalion) level forces is beyond silly.
>>94392726>Even in Central and South America, the rich and powerful are almost all fairly pure whites.The levels of cope is unreal
>>94392702Yes we all know clan tech is bs, you're not special for wiki diving Sarna you pretentious prick. Clan mechs can be as fucking fancy as they want, it doesn't change the fact that trying to occupy an entire planet with a couple hundred mechs at most is fucking retarded. If they at least stuck to undeveloped hick worlds with a couple settlements on it, I could accept that, but you can't seriously expect me to believe a couple clusters of mechs can somehow keep order across regional capital planets with a population bigger than the entirety of the Kerensky Cluster.
>>94392116That's what Star Adders suggested bidding their entire military hoping everyone else would follow suit. Their more pragmatic views are why every other clan is now exiled or subordinate to them.
>>94392626>how the Clan Occupation Zones have lasted so longClan OZs so far laster merely a century. Spanish control over South America laster at least 3 centuries. British control over original 13 colonies lasted more than 1 century
>>94392702>America started WW1 and 2Kek
>>94393205>it doesn't change the fact that trying to occupy an entire planet with a couple hundred mechs at most is fucking retarded.Orly?Also, sci-fi in general usually very bad with numbers. It wasn't more retarded than few hundreds marines conquering/reclaiming worlds across milky way or squadron of X-wings.
>>94393395Well who else was funding German economy with money and technologies
>>94393205>If they at least stuck to undeveloped hick worlds with a couple settlements on itThat describes a fair few planets in the IS
>>94392408>>European countries weren't caste-based shitholesThey weren't. This is what the "Serfs were akchually slaves!" retard crowd misses. Merovech was the son of a God and a slave woman. Once of Frankia's earliest and most beloved Queen was a former slave. Having to do a stint as a slave or serf, or being born one, was not a stigma in most of Europe at most of times, it was an accident of fate.
>>94393891It describes Trell I to a tee.
>>94392275The setting itself is retarded and just an excuse to have knights in mechs duel in space, don't think too hard about it.
