Stylistic trumps realistic.There is this trend to aim for "realism" in the fantasy genre that is an absolute cancer on the hobby. Specifically, it is most noticeable in two areas: magic and fantasy races.People don't want magic, they want reliable science powers. There is no mystery to magic anymore because people love binding magic to how well someone can study. It's predictable, you cast the same spell and the same thing happens every time, because you Scientific Method'ed your magic so well. It's not magic anymore, it's literally just the Force but Science. It doesn't matter if your "magic system" involves some obnoxious hand movements or reagents - if it's reliably producing the same effect every time, that means it's been solved. No longer magic.As for fantasy races, people are so obsessed now with speculative evolution and making a "realistic" fantasy race that they end up creating some hideous abomination that nobody would ever play. Oh, my dwarves? They're ugly little bug people who fold up to sleep. My orcs? They're hideous gorilla-folk. My elves? They're disgusting, anorexic plant people. Look how REALISTIC my unique take on this fantasy race is! Neat, but in your pursuit of realism you sacrificed coolness, beauty, likability, etc. and now nobody wants to actually play your weird little bug dwarves or whatever.Stylistic beats realistic. This is fantasy, if you want realistic little aliens, just rebrand your game to a scifi setting.
Are you mistaking the stylistic choice of presenting a settle as realistic as being a focus on realism in and of itself?And what is this trend? How common is it? Do you have any evidence beyond the fact that you seem to dislike realism simply for being a concept?Are you basically just airing your grudges on /t/g and trying to present it as an attempt to "fix" the wider RPG community?
>>94721884>because people love binding magic to how well someone can studyEntirely according to tradition, yes.Also in a game magic either has rules you can understand and use, or it's all just the GM's whims. The former is far preferable.
>>94721919>Are you mistaking the stylistic choice of presenting a settle as realistic as being a focus on realism in and of itself?Nope.And what is this trend? How common is it? Do you have any evidence beyond the fact that you seem to dislike realism simply for being a concept?I'm sorry you live in a bubble and don't see what the latest trends in the greater fantasy communities are. I'm not going to spoonfeed you tons of posts from various social media sources and the fact that you seriously ask that question expecting me to do that shows you aren't a serious person. SOURCE???? SOURCE??????? Fuck off.>Are you basically just airing your grudges on /t/g and trying to present it as an attempt to "fix" the wider RPG community?No, I'm addressing a trend that has been growing for well over a decade now. You sound like you're totally ignorant to anything that might happen outside /tg/.
>>94721884>It doesn't matter if your "magic system" involves some obnoxious hand movements or reagents - if it's reliably producing the same effect every time, that means it's been solved. No longer magic.How do you propose implementing magic into a tabletop ruleset where, at a minimum, the GM is required to understand how and when a demon or other NPC monster is capable of using magic, and what effect it will have on the players?
>>94721938>I'm sorry you live in a bubble and don't see what the latest trends in the greater fantasy communities are. I'm not going to spoonfeed you tons of posts from various social media sources and the fact that you seriously ask that question expecting me to do that shows you aren't a serious person. SOURCE???? SOURCE??????? Fuck off.The fact that you won't provide sources is pretty damning. Like, let's point to the way a huge majority of people interact with RPGs: watching actors or people play RPGs in a steamed format, or through edited video.How many of those style of RPG games are focused on the realistic?>No, I'm addressing a trend that has been growing for well over a decade now. You sound like you're totally ignorant to anything that might happen outside /tg/.This sounds exactly like you're airing a grudge and now you're incredibly mad at being called out for it.
>>94721938>posts from various social media sourcesSo it's fucking nothing?
>>94721950No, playing the SOURCE game with testy queens on 4chan is a game with no winners because no source is ever good enough, especially not for something as large as greater trends in the genre. I'd have to drop hundreds of posts from various social media sites, so fuck off.>blahblahblah you're mad at being called out!I don't really consider anything you did to be of significance, nor do I feel like you "exposed" some hidden agenda of mine.Also, it's been a minute since I last posted on 4chan and the new captchas are so bad that it's actually making it nearly impossible to post, much less respond to every reply to my original post. Holy shit.
>>94721972Someone's too stupid to solve a captcha.I provided you with an example of an incredibly popular trend in TTRPGs, shit like Critical Role, Dimension 20, and countless over examples. These are the ways most people get into RPGs nowadays, and have been for years.How many of these are focused on realism? Really push it?Face it, man, you've just been on reddit, seen a couple posts about realism in RPGs because some people enjoy that kind of thing, screamed and shit yourself, then decided to come over to 4chan to cry about it.
>>94721884Cool thesis. How do you oh wise one, reccomend that i, a game designer, write concise and clearly interperetable rules for magic that are not reduceable to a set of rules?More pedantically, you've never defined stylistic. It seems more like you mean a sense of versimilitude rather than stylized designs in general
>>94721884>People don't want magic, they want reliable science powers. There is no mystery to magic anymore because people love binding magic to how well someone can study.This is interesting to me because I like the idea of parts of a fantasy setting to be, in some ways, shrouded in mystery. I think letting every continent and every race being "solved" so to speak, is a waste of potential. I think the power and mystery of the unknown is a much more intriguing idea. Yet it's difficult to imagine adding magic to a setting and not having defined rules as to how it would work. Doesn't the unpredictability of magic, in itself, not become a rule after all?>As for fantasy races, people are so obsessed now with speculative evolution and making a "realistic" fantasy race that they end up creating some hideous abomination that nobody would ever play. In this though, I am in disagreement. I think more unique races are to be strongly encouraged. It's tiring how long fantasy has drawn from the well of Tolkien races. I like the classic fantasy races like elves, orcs, dwarves etc. but it's so boring that they boil down to being essentially humans with a couple changes that could be done with makeup or prostethics every time. I WANT dwarves to be bug people or elves to be plantlike beings. If you're making a character and you want something relatable and pretty in the way a human is, why not pick human and be done with it? Let us weirdos play as the bugmen.>who the fuck would want to play as thisLiterally me.
>>94721884How did this impact your last gaming session?
>>94721884>"Oh, my dwarves? They're ugly little bug people who fold up to sleep."monstergarden is cool and i was listening to you til you said this. you're a loser.
This thread sucks
>>94722496>I think the power and mystery of the unknownIf it remains unknown it is irrelevant. If it does not remain unknown it's either an extra product for you to buy, or something you made up yourself.
>>94721884You fucked up. Realistic style has been a thing for ages. The realism is painted on where it suits the style of the maker and ignored when it doesn't.
>>94721884>There is no mystery to magic anymore because people love binding magic to how well someone can study. It's predictable, you cast the same spell and the same thing happens every time>AnymoreThat's been how magic has worked in rpgs since D&D was published in 1974. And if you're talking about the broader fantasy genre, I don't recall Gandalf seeming unsure about what was about to happen when he broke the bridge at Khazad-dûm or Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser blathering about the unknowable nature of magic when they tied earthing wires to themselves to protect themselves from sorcerers hurling lightning. >As for fantasy races, people are so obsessed now with speculative evolution and making a "realistic" fantasy race Literally who? I've never come across this supposed trend in any rpg publication, fantasy book or gaming group. The only example I can think of is the Artemis Fowl books (published over 20 years ago by the way) I read as a child and they're neither fantasy literature nor anything to do with rpgs. >My elves? They're disgusting, anorexic plant people. Like the elves in Glorantha? A setting published in 1978 and which was literally created as exercise in exploring mythology rather than any sort of attempt at realism?>who the fuck would want to play as thisNo one, and rightly so. They're fucking orcs. Orcs are for killing.
>>94721884>if it's reliably producing the same effect every time, that means it's been solved. No longer magic.The history of real-world beliefs about magic was that performing the same ritual would reliably produce the same effect each time. That was how rituals were developed and why they were performed. From religious practices to dabblers in the occult, it was always the case that magic was the realm of knowledge of how to properly produce repeatable results.
>>94721884>imageare your really complaining that some people want the female of a race to like the male, if so you are a flaming faggot and should burn in 7th circle of hell for all eternity.
>>94721884Yes, and?
>>94721884I'd slam that lady orc, I can see it now, me, my Beautiful (compared to the average rural American woman) wife, maybe we'd have a nice orchard, I can process our fruits and she can pick them with her long ass arms. maybe make some half orc runts to help out and to send to town. sure she would probably yell like a Latina woman and swing a wooden spoon with a real wallop, but at least we know our kids will be well behaved if they have to worry about getting beat with a slipper that can break bones.oh sorry anon, what were you talking about? I got distracted.
>>94721884Haven't games been getting less realistic and more stylised over time? 5e, sword lesbians, most pbta stuff, star finder, new Cyberpunk (not that it was ever very realistic), etc?
Reminder that all magic was always attempting to codify how to reliably create certain results. That's all rituals ever were: Creating certain caused with certain effects.The cry for "unknowable" magic is a midwit take that betrays a complete lack of understanding of mystical practice.
>>94723916You are confueing realistic with simulationist.There was a push in the late 80s and throughout the 90s to write more rules for more things. DnD was originally very lightweight and abstract, because it was a small add-on to a wargaming ruleset.A game can be very abstract but still confine you to realistic outcomes.
>>>/lit/I could agree that more and more "fantasy" "writers" write entire "magic systems" and then feel autistically obligated to pontificate them to the reader in the worst possible examples of "tell, don't show", killing any and all spark that there is to magic in the fantasy contextas for games, magic cannot be too unpredictable/flaky/non-binary or it becomes too cumbersome or straight up unusableas for the races, it doesn't matter if they're ugly or beautiful, as long as they're cool
>>94721884For fantasy races it's not really because of the pursuit of realism, people just try to make original stuff and think that ugly and weird = original.
>>94724376Depends what you mean by uglyness but the opposite of weird, quite literally is normal AKA a human. Which is the least original thing you can do. I don't see how you could design an interesting fantasy race without making it at least a bit bizzarre.
>>94724592Just make the ears slightly pointed, say it lives for ten times as long as humans and is both inherently superior to them and also doesn’t mechanically exceed them to any meaningful extent, and bam. Iconic fantasy race, right there.
>>94721884Buddy you're a fucking moron. I can't believe you wrote all this nonsense. This is the problem with you dipshits who sit on 4chan for 12 hours a day, you're ignorant as fuck but think you know everything about everything.You're describing two different genres. There's no trend, there's always been high fantasy and low fantasy. Faggot. I genuinely hope something awful happens to your ability to access the Internet and your stupid little ass is forced to go outside and learn about the world for once
>le magic is mysteryultimate midwit take
>>94721884Some people like realism. Shocking.>People don't want magicPeople use the same word to mean different things. You aren't the arbiter of what is and isn't "magic".>There is no mystery to magic anymore becauseWho cares. It's not your setting. >Oh, my dwarves? >My orcs?>My elves?Who cares. They're not yours>in your pursuit of realism you sacrificed coolness, beauty, likability, etc.thank you OP for sharing with us your objective perspective on coolness, beauty, and likability. >filenameme>>94722556this>>94722633this
>>94724029>>94726279Reminder that initiation into the rituals and practices, or their obfuscation from mundanes, was the mystery and that sense of awe is important to magic as part of the game world unless you want to go full magical industrialization.
>>94726314The only way to pull that off in a tabletop game is if you handle it like Paranoia, where the players knowing the rules is against the rules.
>>94726314>Reminder that initiation into the rituals and practices, or their obfuscation from mundanes, was the mystery True to an extent, but once initiated awe is no longer a thing to be expected of a person knowledgeable of the mystery.>and that sense of awe is important to magicAbsolutely not. The peasants who performed their yearly rituals for better crops and petitioning the gods for protection didn't experience awe when doing it. The wizard isnt going to feel awe about casting a low power spell for the thousandth time. This idea that awe is some major component of magic is deeply ahistorical and goes against how magic has been experienced in thousands of cultures worldwide.In fact, I think its a very shallow notion born of a certain stereotype of christian peasants in some idiotic mudcore fantasy. Or your own idiocy about wanting to feel something wondrous and awe inducing and then offloading that onto magical power and spell casting in ttrpgs instead of developing a child-like wonder for facts and knowledge about the natural world like many scientists and autistics have.
>>94726331They're literally called spell levels anon. Go look into how older dnd used to handle apprenticeships. >>94726490>this fag doesn't experience awe during seasonal rituals you're doing it wrong faithless monster.
>>94726603>spell levelsIs it printed in the PHB with concrete rules about range, duration, effect, etc.? Then it's not going to be mysterious to anyone playing the game.Otherwise OP wouldn't be here bitching about magic being treated as a rote science if Wizards having 5th level spells that lower level Wizards couldn't use was all it took to induce a sense of awe.
>>94726490Hell if we're bringing peasants into things the ones that did folk magic, even in very puritanically Christian regions, still had a laundry list of fairly mundane and practical little spells and charms under their disposal.
Is "magic should be a mysterious and unknowable force" being backed by an extremely persistent anon or is this some sort of grog larp talking point for people who want to be nerd cool? I keep seeing this talking point over the last year espoused by anons who talk identically to OP and never seem do move beyond mild ranting.
>>94726754Its a few very dedicated idiots and possible /x/ posters. Theres also the "magic is entirely psychological" poster who is very convinced that all magic in all settings is impossible and not magic. He never seems to give a good word or term to use to refer to rituals and incantations that actually do things. Or strange physics unlike Earths. But he will be very persistent in calling you an idiot for referring to spells, supernatural powers, and physics defying abilities as magic.I swear they must be some kind of weird attempt to push people into certain historical genres or disrupt talk about magic and games that feature it.
>>94726649>Then it's not going to be mysterious to anyone playing the gameSkill issue. Get good at roleplay.
>>94726829I feel like these people are too fucked in the brain to truly have a plan behind their actions and are simply victims of contrarianism taking to extreme levels.
I just got back from watching Nosferatu and suddenly everything the OP said just made a ton of sense to me. Like it just clicked. I'm imagining if I saw a Nosferatu for modern audiences and he would've either been a sexy elf or a super realistic bat-human hybrid whose existence boiled down to a science experiment gone wrong instead of an inhuman, spiritual evil. He would've been defeated by science instead of magic and he would've had at least one quality that humanized and redeemed him.
>>94721884What >>94726862 saidGet good OP
>>94726923>I saw a newly released movie and got really mad at a strawman I made up in my headMotherfucker, it's a critically praised movie with great box office sales. The modern audience likes it.
>>94726950The modern audience doesn't exist, so of course it's a success.
>>94721884>some hideous abomination that nobody would ever playI enjoy playing hideous abominations.
>>94727779What systems work best for that then?
>>94721884>if it's reliably producing the same effect every time, that means it's been solved. No longer magic.Unfortunately this is /tg/ not /lit/. In traditional games, reliability is important. If something is unreliable, it is bad, and thus there is zero reason to take it because 99% of the time it's going to do nothing and/or blow up in your face, and at that point why have magic at all? Also, why wouldn't people study and refine magic through the ages? Why wouldn't they make it into a science? It's just not OUR science, because it can break realistic laws of physics by creating/destroying matter and so forth.>Oh, my dwarves? They're ugly little bug people who fold up to sleep. My orcs? They're hideous gorilla-folk. My elves? They're disgusting, anorexic plant people.That's not realistic that's just more interesting than "human but short and drunk", "Human but green and rapey" and "Human but gay like OP". Normal Dwarves, elves, and orcs aren't cool, beautiful, or likable. They're shit. Make something fucking cool that can't exist like a raec of shadow people or some sort of monsterfolk with fuckoff huge claws.
>>94721884>this said by the same board that pitches fits at female combatants and non-white people in the setting
>>94721884>People don't want magic, they want reliable science powers.But science is magic :)
>"Realistic" as in "like the real world"bad>"Realistic" as in "things are explained by in-universe logic and feel believable even if they are ostensibly fantastical" (some people call this "verisimilitude")good
If a fantasy were truly realistic humans probably wouldn't even survive to be around and proliferate.
>>94721884Fantasy realism is a spook when applied to worldbuilding. Good worldbuilding is interwoven as flavor from whatever sources your characters are interacting with and nothing more.Actual fantasy realism is character-driven, it's people reacting realistically to absurd fantasy logic.
>>94721884You know the Eagles in the Lord of the Rings were a race like the Istar and Elves right? Was tolkien too focused on realism he created a race nobody would want to play?
>>94721884... traditional games?>inb4 world building is traditional gamesThis thread is so abstract, it might as well be posted on /lit/ or /tv/ and it would fit without changing a word
>>94723916All of those examples are extremely unrealistic with retarded gameworlds driven by the tastes of the authors/audience.
>>94721884>People don't want magic, they want reliable science powers. There is no >>94722496>This is interesting to me because I like the idea of parts of a fantasy setting to be, in some ways, shrouded in mystery. I think letting every continent and every race being "solved" so to speak, is a waste of potential. I think the power and mystery of the unknown is a much more intriguing idea. Yet it's difficult to imagine adding magic to a setting and not having defined rules as to how it would work. Doesn't the unpredictability of magic, in itself, not become a rule after all?mystery to magic anymore because people love binding magic to how well someone can study. It's predictable, you cast the same spell and the same thing happens every time, because you Scientific Method'ed your magic so well. It's not magic anymore, it's literally just the Force but Science. It doesn't matter if your "magic system" involves some obnoxious hand movements or reagents - if it's reliably producing the same effect every time, that means it's been solved. No longer magic.>>94729646There is a thread going on about a homebrew ssystem with weird and not reliable magic right now, might be worth checking out.
>>94721884This guy's orc redesigns are dope as hell though, fuck outta here OP
>>94739891I like the more gorilla-like ones.
It’s basically a continuum with Mario at one end and Zelda at the other. In both cases, there’s a focal kingdom and a main princess who frequently has to be rescued. Both have economies that break down on any level of analysis whatsoever, neither has practical castle architecture, but one focuses much more on maintaining a specific style and aesthetic, while the other puts a bit more into a degree of logic underlying the world. Peach is a princess because we know she’s a princess, and you rescue her because that’s what you do with princesses. Zelda is a princess who actually expresses any degree of thought about the dispensation of her kingdom, and you rescue her to prevent a specific and known bad thing from happening.
>>94740170That's super cool but a different artist actually, the guy that drew the one in OP goes by Ahmonza12 on Twitter. He made a whole video about the designs he came up with.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWKexfaRlTo
There was a thread on /v/ with the same image in the OP a week or two ago. I suspect that’s where this thread came from.
Crazy to me that OP is obviously kinda right, but anons are too hung-up on being contrarians and say he wrong and attempt to shut down the entire discourse just for the sake of it. As much as you may hate it and play anything else as hard as possible, D&D is a good example how there is a now wider community who went full circle from whining over fantasy races being some bad representation of real ones, that they made them now just that (e.g. mexican orcs). Same with OPs example of over-world-building and fantasy races turning into weird bug and plant people or how the whole thing of>female of fantasy race shouldn't just look like human femaleturned into>female of fantasy race should exactly like the ugly male, just with 10% extra decrepit hagIt isn't anything against realism, but that it appears like there are a lot of people who mistake realism for things just looking like shit to a unrealistic degree (And that overcorrection happens often out of misplaced sense of morality, but that is beside the point).
>>94721884>It's predictable, you cast the same spell and the same thing happens every time, because you Scientific Method'ed your magic so well.When has "magic" ever not functioned predictably in cause and effect despite the general shroud of mystery? Sure the actual methodology, specific effects, and the interacting mechanisms regularly swept under the rug in myth and folklore, but this notion of all magic being Wild Magic is just bullshit that /tg/ autists invented. >As for fantasy races, people are so obsessed now with speculative evolution and making a "realistic" fantasy race that they end up creating some hideous abomination that nobody would ever play.The vast majority of people still play basic-ass Tolkien-inspired races, what the fuck are you on about? It's not a fucking "trend" it's just a few niche artists/communities having ideas pitching alternative races and frankly that's cool and has infinitely more creative value than you shitting yourself in public over them having fun.
>>94724376IIRC the bug dwarves ideas was trying to pull from ancient myth that could be interpreted as dwarves being weird grub people. Folk regularly argue about whether that's a mistranslation or not, but point is the guy was explicitly trying to pull from existing inspiration rather than being "original".
>>94721884>people love binding magic to how well someone can studythere's that niche rpg few people heard about, where magic is unpredictable. It's called warhammer you unconventionally placed troglodite.
>>94743015yep, pretty much with you on this. OP worded his point pretty badly but if he changed his presentation slightly, im sure 90% of his detractors ITT would be in agreement with him. unfortunately he came off way too strong and disorganized and did more harm to his position as a result. it's a shame cus i think he's right (in spirit) on the race angle.cant say i agree on the magic bit, tho. at least not from a gamist standpoint. from a literary perspective, sure.
Do you have any evidence and data to support the existence of this trend beyond anecdotes?
>>94721884>Stylistic trumps realistic.true>As for fantasy races, people are so obsessed now with speculative evolution and making a "realistic" fantasy race that they end up creating some hideous abomination that nobody would ever play. Oh, my dwarves? They're ugly little bug people who fold up to sleep. My orcs? They're hideous gorilla-folk. My elves? They're disgusting, anorexic plant people. Look how REALISTIC my unique take on this fantasy race is! Neat, but in your pursuit of realism you sacrificed coolness, beauty, likability, etc. and now nobody wants to actually play your weird little bug dwarves or whatever.you're confused therepeople who make these unique takes aren't doing it out of realism, it's just a different way of stylization.
>>94721884The fuck are you on about? "Stylistic" has been the default in fantasy since at least 2004 thanks to world of redditcraft and other gayass vidya and anime taking over the aesthetics and being the only fantasy most millennials/zoomies were exposed to. You're confusing shitty muh grey and gray story tropes with style. Game of Thrones/ASOIF is still unrealistic overblown fantasy even if fathack claims it's "realistic" because characters piss and shit.I'd fucking kill for actual grounded realistic fantasy to become the standard again. Fuck capeshitters in ornate platemail or black leather catsuits jumping around with 9 foot swords fighting dragons the size of blue whales in skyscraper cities. Bring back more linen shirts, tights, and cape wearing dudes with pornstaches fighting some wizard who is a dude in a robe that struggles to fling a basic fireball and whose fortress of doom is a simple 4 story castle that wouldn't look out of place in the English countryside, where the most exotic race in the setting is some big tiddy bitch with feathered hair and elf ears wearing 6 square inches of worth of silk in a dress that barely covers her ass and titties.
>>94743631Nobody in ASOIF can shoot a fireball.
>>94721884>People don't want magic, they want reliable science powers. There is no mystery to magic anymore because people love binding magic to how well someone can study. It's predictable, you cast the same spell and the same thing happens every time, because you Scientific Method'ed your magic so well. It's not magic anymore, it's literally just the Force but Science. It doesn't matter if your "magic system" involves some obnoxious hand movements or reagents - if it's reliably producing the same effect every time, that means it's been solved. No longer magic.That's literally how magic has worked for the entirety of the history of the RPG hobby.
>>94726490>In fact, I think its a very shallow notion born of a certain stereotype of christian peasants in some idiotic mudcore fantasy.It's from Fate/Stay Night.Fuck Fate. Garbage VN, garbage setting, garbage characters, garbage magic system, it's just pure unadulterated trash that infects and infests everything because people incomprehensibly think it's good in any way.
>>94737681>>"Realistic" as in "like the real world">badRealistic as in "like the real world" is really good because the real world has tons of cool shit in it. The Catholic Church is more interesting than literally every fantasy religion put together.Unfortunately some people think "realistic" means "everybody wears brown and lives in mud and eats shit."
>>94743539>90% of his detractors ITT would be in agreement with himno they wouldn't. this board is full of redditors.
>>94743631The wheel of time is ass. Most overrated book series I've ever read.
>>94721884Dude is like, you expect me to fuck this thing?
>>94744971elaborate
Science worship ruined millenials.
>>94721884Fantasy is inherently pretty stylistic, I would think. Your example looks pretty stylized to me.>There is no mystery to magic anymore because people love binding magic to how well someone can study.There's still plenty of room for mystery with this kind of approach if spellbooks and scrolls are hard to come by. You could make entire adventures out of seeking out magical teachers and learning new spells from them. You could ratchet up the fantasy even further by making the teachers gods, demons or other cool creatures instead of plain old hominids.I do agree, however, that spells are cooler when they can be cast with varying degrees of success beyond just rolling for damage or duration. People who are untrained with magic should run the risk of hurting themselves when trying to read from scrolls or books, and situational disadvantages should throw even trained professionals off their game.>My orcs? They're hideous gorilla-folk.>>94740170I like this shit. I like chimp-like goblins, too.
>>94742909>owcsShame about his childish speech impediment.
>>94745582I take it as spells become widespread because they are reliable, and a chunk of magic research is figuring out words that do fit together, but the magical language is one of those where there are nine variants to everything and only one of them produces a positive result.So I've thought about giving players scrolls for spells that are still in development and thus have swingy results and outcomes, but over time letting the player finalize the specifics of the spell as their mage solves it.
>>94721884>l. It's not magic anymore, it's literally just the Force but Science. It doesn't matter if your "magic system" involves some obnoxious hand movements or reagents - if it's reliably producing the same effect every time, that means it's been solved. No longer magic.I fucking hate this pseud take. It literally screams nogames, because there's no care put into how this can be usable/playable in a game, its just worthless vibes based posturing.
>>94745465>traditional cultural touchstones cast down as 'backwards' by previous generation>'science' ginned up as driving force behind all the good things in life in media and education>computers introduced to the classroom as primary education resource over books>laws passed requiring schools to pander to lowest common denominator to secure funding>social media developed>mobile devices take offthey were supposed to be a cadre of people eager and equipped to be scientists, but instead turned out an entire generation of vapid clout chasers which largely glommed onto the 'it' thing and made it not only their personality, but the centerpiece of their puddle-shallow worldview. but none of them got a proper education because their schools kept lowering their standards to keep passing the dumbest among them, so they're all fucking retarded. How much can you really blame people who were educated stupid?
>>94744971>It's from Fate/Stay Night.Fuck are you on about? Fate magic does work on the principle of Mystery (magic becomes weaker the more people understand both it and the natural world), but mages still understand their own magic just fucking fine and treat it as effectively a science.They're just motivated to keep their own numbers low and muggles ignorant.
>>94743435Warhammer magic is still studied, and spell effects are still predictable, having to roll a dice to get the spell off doesn't change that.It's not like D&D doesn't have long tradition of wild magic and random bulshit happening on casting a spell.
>>94750215Part of that is because if too many mages try to tap a source of Mystery, it gets too weak to do much, like how everyone in a building taking a shower at once tanks the water pressure, right?
>>94743566What he said. Show us your sources please.
>Getting all up your own ass about spellsHere's some spells I use on the regular:if you spin in a circle and kick a tree behind you, the squirrel will fall out.If you dunk your pole in the water before you fish, you'll have a better catch.If you sacrifice every day, but not more or less than that, your luck will improve.
