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Were they right?

Also, haha Butte Hold!

>>94729720
Yes, or they were a comstar asset dependending on what consiuracy theory you subsribe to.

>>94729750
>Dragon, Dragon, Dragon, Dragon

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HONOR THE DRAGON!!

>>94729720
Yes, but they didn't have the industrial base to support themselves. Plus, basing their alliance with the Taurians off a false flag operation would've doomed them in the long run, even without Kamea's & the player's interference.

I know there's yet more legal fuckery going on with HBS or whoever has the rights to their games now but I'm still kinda disappointed how that game didn't have much long term influence on Battletech as a whole compared to what a huge splash DoW and the Blood Ravens made in 40k. The got a print on demand sourcebook, a short tie in story in Shrapnel and then just sort of came and went.

>>94729812
Reposting my reply here since new bread was made while I was typing. Oh, and a follow-up question. What about the Cyclops. Just how common is that for an Assault mech?

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>>94729794
nope

>>94729810
>Game
There's the problem. Dawn of War 1 wasn't a one-off, it was a series of pretty good games that all iterated on each other and had more stories to tell/gameplay to mess around with. Then, DoW 2 comes around and does the same thing but with different mechanics.
Warhammer does have the advantage of being more visible/easier to market for a game but Relic didn't get the shaft due to rights issues/legal problems, they were able to pump out Warhammer games at their leisure.

>>94729810
There were great plans of making it the first even canon video game, But Stuff happened, paradox happened and apparently even some people in HBS did not want to do more battletech. So the writing got worse and worse to the point it became fanfiction-tier and ties got severed.

>>94729825
Cyclops's are pretty rare, ones with working computers even more so. The caps have the most of them in 3025.

>>94729845
Okay. Noted. Thank you.

>>94729839
>even some people in HBS did not want to do more battletech.
Correct. They wanted to push their political agenda and got upset when the Battletech players cared more about the mechs than having a They pronoun. They also seemed to get really upset that the players didn't like any of the characters they made. Yang seems to be the most popular character from the game and even he's really just adequate, but he's adequate in a crowd of shit.

I've been getting one of the guys at club into combined arms and he took a Di Schmitt (TC) with a 3 gunner in our last game, which got stunned into uselessness. The game before that he took a DI Morgan, which got engine critted into uselessness.

Thinking about that, who plays with the TacOps vehicle survivability rules? What's that maximum you'd pay for a vic under TW, and then whilst using the TacOps survivability improvements? Using TW 1250ish seem the most that is sensible.

>>94729929
>who plays with the TacOps vehicle survivability rules?
No one who cares about balance. Vehicles are SUPPOSED to be fragile and easily KOd, and their BV reflects this. The Vehicle Survivability Rules massively upgrade their durability, but don't change their BV to compensate for that, which makes those rules brutally unbalanced in favor of vehicles.

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>>94729922
Clearly them half-arseing the dating sim mechanics, completely dropping the Directoriate campaign, fucking up mission design and the limited number of maps were not something anybody took issues with.

>>94729825
Pixie is a nickname for the Phoenix Hawk.

>>94730024
Don't forget dropping weather, forest fires, infantry, combined arms, air units, artillery, airstrikes and anti-air, firing arcs, torso twist, co-op and changing argo from a jumpship to a dropship and reducing the game in scale from company to one lance because the re-dressed golem acrana engine could not handle it.

>>94730012
As it should be. Vehicles should be better than Mechs anyway since they don't have vulnerable legs and joints, and can carry more weapons. The TacOps vehicle survivability rules are just CGL admitting that their basic vehicle rules are dumb and bad and that tanks deserve a free buff.

>>94730074
Oh, is that what we're going to do today? We're going to have this fight again?

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>>94729810

>what a huge splash DoW and the Blood Ravens made in 40k.

I'm surprised they never did a female farseer for that reason. Macha and Taldeer were huge memes here back in the late 00's.

>>94729922

Millennial writing 101. Outright saying "you like this character" instead of actually building them up to make the audience like them. Whedon-esque quips as a substitute for genuine wit. Not having the abstract thinking skils to make characters who aren't self-inserts.

>>94730125
can we please not do that today?

>>94730125
Yes, until CGL fixes vehicles. Mechs are dumb and it's vehicles that should be the focus. Combined arms wins wars. Mechs can be propaganda pieces and the occasional gun platform, but it's stupid to nerf vehicles for no good reason. TacOps vehicle survivability rules should be the default standard, and I'm not going to stop bitching about it until CGL does it my way.

>>94730199
Go play bolt action.

>>94730212
No. I stopped playing that when the local players got taken over by leftists and complained about me playing Germans and painting them accurately to represent my family history.

>>94730236
Sorry to hear that.

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>>94729810
Don't listen to the culture warriors, they're still bent someone put a "they" option in a gender list and have been successfully trolled now for 6 years- especially the guy claiming dating sim mechanics, tell us how you never played the game ect. ect...

But total agree; HBS battletech is literally the gunshot that started this new wave for battletech today, where the OF even has charts showing their increase in traction post-release (and subsequent boosts with MW5 and new minis and such) consistently. Thing is tho, battletech IP is a fucking mess; Weismann in the 90s thought the age of the tabletop game was rapidly dying thanks to the Pokemon TCG slaughtering everything, so he sold rights "in perpetuity" to anyone interested which is part of why we even still have the game- Paradox making HBS Battletech had to get an okay from Microsoft who owns the name "Mechwarrior" and behind the scenes, needed the success of Battletech to look serious and competent to get the demons of Microsoft on board with using more of the IP for Mechwarrior 5.

Part of that issue is also that Paradox was a small indie dev and didn't have a lot of experience in writing, which for games is becoming something of a lost art because that fucker needs to have both a lot of control and steady vision, but also be hand-in-hand with the rest of the design process. But it's also a busy and difficult job with a lot of labor, but the more writers you add to lighten the load the more the tone might change...

>>94729929
I've played a few, but only for hovercraft and WiGE. Those things sometimes might as well just not have any armor with how the motive hit system works I swear; but otherwise, because the BV system wasn't made with them in mind, >>94730012 I feel is totally right.
It also thematically makes sense that the vehicles would take damage and loose speed, but it's more from easily-replaced parts breaking than something actually catastrophic for the sake of easy maintenance and repair.

>>94730236
Maybe hold back on regaling the leftists with your family's proud role in Hitler's generalplan ost when they ask about the uniform

>>94730045
Oh. I didn't know that.

>>94730371
It's either that or Penis Hawk.

>>94730069
All stuff they could have fixed and added in a sequel, but again, they never actually cared about any of that. They never cared about Battletech at all.
>>94730074
If you want vehicles to be tougher for the sake of "Lore" than all mechs need to be more mobile to even that out. You want to use rules that make your vehicles tougher? Fine, but all my mechs just had their movement ratings doubled. Oh, and you're now tracking heat for your vehicles because it's a retarded idea that firing 3 PPCs on an Awesome generates a lot of heat but somehow firing them on a Shreck PPC carrier generates none. All your vehicles will be operating on a standard 10 single heat sinks as well.
Alright, so who's ready to play?

>>94730386
Penis Hawk it is.

>>94730341
The "They"s have been rejected. The "They"s will never be accepted. It's about time you come to terms with that and get over it.

>>94730397
>you're now tracking heat for your vehicles because it's a retarded idea that firing 3 PPCs on an Awesome generates a lot of heat but somehow firing them on a Shreck PPC carrier generates none. All your vehicles will be operating on a standard 10 single heat sinks as well.
That's actually a buff to most vehicles since they already need to have enough heat sinks to fully sink all heat from energy weapons, and external heat generally becomes straight damage. The Shreck has 30 SHS already. Allowing it to use the heat scale means it can ride the heat scale, use less heat sinks, and not burn when hit by inferno missiles.

>>94730386
Hmh. What would be the best way for troopers to refer to the Phawk LAM if it got in serious production.
Pixie or Penis Hawk....
I wonder...

>>94730386
>Penis Hawk.
Much better.

>>94730434
No. Your shreck will be getting 10 single heat sinks. That's it.

>>94730480
So it gained 20 tons of free weight and crits that I can use for anything I want?

>>94730487
Sorry, 30 tons of weight actually, since it's currently paying for every single heat sink, but under mech style rules those are included in the engine. So 30 tons and 20 slots.

>>94730236
seems legit. BTW my dad works for nintendo.

>>94730397
Vehicles already track heat for energy weapons, in theory. They ignore the heat from missiles and ballistics, but every vehicle with energy weapon must allocate enough tonnage to heat sinks to completely neutralize the heat from an alpha-strike. So the Shreck actually has 30 SHS, and so on.

>>94730417
Yeah, even trannies hate them. It's inherently insulting to people with real gender dysphoria.

>>94730487
Sorry anon. I know you think you're being clever, but you're not. You want to super power your vehicles for the gameboard, well then they're going to be hit with my custom rules. You sink 10 heat a turn. Period. You may not make custom loadouts or changes to vehicles. You will also be generating movement heat.
You wanted lore accurate vehicles, well these are some of the changes that will have to be made because in the lore, the vehicles got absolutely destroyed by the mechs 999 out of 1,000 times. You know why people speak so fondly of the tale of the Savannah Master defeating the Locust that 1 time? Because it was the 1 time. Every single other time it was the Locust crushing the Savannah Master. So yes, we'll be doubling mech movement, tracking heat for all your vehicles, and come to think of it, I think we'll be cutting your armor values for vehicles in half too. All the better to represent how fragile they were compared to the mechs.
You wanted your custom game? Well there it is. Don't like it? Too bad, so sad, don't care. Battletech is a game about mechs first and foremost. Everything else exists purely in service of making the mech the focal point.

Question for lore-anons: I've seen Wolf's Dragoons Alpha Regiment represented as red/black, but also orange/black. Which is more accurate?

And if Jaime Wolf is represented as commanding a lance or star of Alphas on the field, is he still in his blue/gold color scheme, or does he also adopt the Alpha scheme then?

>>94730788
Then you've made illegal designs, since that vehicle has 30 SHS.

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>>94730795
>Question for lore-anons
Alpha should be Red and Black, the orange you saw was likely just a painting issue trying to keep the red in that happy medium between not too bright versus to dim against the black paint. As for Jaime, he's always represented as the Blue/Gold and I don't think he was ever shown as using anything else.

>>94730441
>Hmh. What would be the best way for troopers to refer to the Phawk LAM if it got in serious production.
My vote is Penis Hawk since the damn thing would be (appearing) so expensive and exclusive.

>>94730417
And yet they live in your head rent-free. Have your (you) and stop replying to yourself with the other tranny reply, its getting sad.

Personally, I think the best way to balance mechs and vehicles with the survivability rules is to have more of a focus on mechwarriors' SPAs. Mechs should take full advantage of being linked to the pilot's nervous system, being a means for a warrior to fight on the scale of tanks with all their skills and fighting instinct, not just a funny looking tank with limbs that maybe let it climb over big rocks but are otherwise objectively inferior to normal vehicles.

>>94730906
Illegal? LOL! You're talking about wanting to make custom rules that spit in the face of lore and benefit you for your precious vehicle play and you want to talk about legality? El oh el.
Nobody is playing any games with you.

>>94730971
>We put trannies in everywhere and talk about them all the time making it impossible for you to ignore and avoid them!
> Did you just complain about them? They must be living rent free in your head!
Again, you will never be accepted.

>>94731035
Come on man, at least keep your trolling straight. You brought up custom rules and don't like the implications that come with them. If you made vehicles use the heat scale, then they get the normal heat scale rules.

>>94730341
I think the guy claiming dating sim mechanics is botching about content that got cut, not that he thinks the actual game as released included them. But he may just be retarded idk.

>>94731046
>You brought up custom rules
Gaslighting liar.
They were brought up here >>94729929
>TacOps vehicle survivability rules
Those are custom rules. I didn't bring it up.
You can go fuck yourself now. I'm not dealing with you moronic lying anymore.

What happens when a 55t mech DFAs a 3 level CF40 building?

>>94731078
Optional rules aren't custom rules. You're falling apart at the seams here.

Said it before and I'll say it again: no motive roll on a 5 or 9, and no auto-crit on a side hit of 8. That's all CVs really need: to not get fucked so hard by their tables

>>94731078
They're advanced rules, not custom rules

>>94730130
>Not having the abstract thinking skils to make characters who aren't self-inserts.
Tbqh, your picrelated is cow. They are basically modern America who never become Super-Power

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>>94731001
The advanced control kinda shit is largely reserved for very skilled pilots
.
The way the mech is balanced out in BT is both historical/cultural - the Mackie came in at a point in history where it could use a lot of new tech that vehicles didn't quite have yet and left an impression - and operational - mechs are generally more multi-role than most vehicles and are better suited and equipped for being shipped around to whatever which combat theater they need to fight in now. Vehicles are usually better as a defensive measure.

Purely game-wise they're on similar footing and in a good spot in my opinion. Though I'd take a full mech-like system for vehicles, VTOLs and Aerospace stuff compared to what we got as is.

At least that's my take on it and I don't think it needs much of a change. I think it's funny to bring some tanks along or pretend that your mechwarrior brought a levy from his backwater with him that's just a couple of infantry dudes and some Scorpions or something.

>>94730074
Play Centurion then.

>>94730795
IIRC it's supposed to be kind of rusty red, instead of the bright red of something like the Sword of Light. The orange is probably just an attempt to do that but going a bit too bright. Camospecs isn't always entirely consistent with the description in the lore, for example there's one Hell's Horses galaxy that's described as painting their mechs dark grey and red, but the guy who painted most examples of camospecs used a rather light shade of grey.

>>94730971
>>94731974
Makes sense, paint is a fickle bitch. I heard they were releasing a new official camo guide, but I guess that got forgotten somewhere along the way.

>>94729825
Pixie is a Phoenix Hawk.
Battlemasters are kind of an oddball, their unseen but they are not overly common, and depending on where you are might be all but impossible to find. Iirc, the Lyrian Commonwealth has the body of surviving Beamers by the 3rd SW, with the Federated Sun's being close behind them. The Dracs just straight up don't have any until Rosebud.
Post Invasion they are a lot more common though, and turn up all over.
Cyclops are, as the anon said, extremely rare. The Cappies and Dracs have most survivors. You might be better off with a Banshee (everywhere) Awesome (the FWL exports them) or Victor (produced in large numbers by the Fedsunsand frequent salvage or sale items) if your going Succession Wars/pre Clan Invasion

>>94730971
Cope, everything woke turns to shit

What's a good VTOL I can use the Visigoth model to proxy?

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>>94731056
He's a pol tourist, we all know he doesn't play the game lol

>>94732065
>Makes sense, paint is a fickle bitch.
It is; BottomAnon talks about it here and you can find others online doing the same, but reds are hard for an entire line to pull off "good" especially if you're having to use not-wargaming sources or JoAnn paints for what you're doing; old bright enamel reds used to use cadmium or lithium to get that color and we don't have that shit in it for a REASON, so we're kind of left with making the second best work.
If you're on a strict budget I've heard and seen that Liquitex reds off hand are good and so are the Decoart blues and greens, but it really is something you have to try and fuck constantly to find what you like- like how I still have to paint up my DCMS to compare GW's mechrite red to liquitex's cadmium deep red. I have NOT honored the Dragon, BTG.

>I heard they were releasing a new official camo guide, but I guess that got forgotten somewhere along the way.
I think that's just coming this year.

>>94731135
Also I think that the quadvees and protomechs show an alteration in the "waste" from the decanting process for clan mechwarriors- Ultraheavy protos can use aerospace pilots, mechwarrior and even some elemental phenotypes while quadvees are directly fluffed as pulling from elemental, mech and vehicle stock. I partly see them as the IS Clans just getting smarter about their resource use.

>>94730788
Nah, we're playing vanilla. But if you want vees to track heat then you have to account foe them all having enough heatsinks to fire all guns every turn, and their engines not generating heat owing to not using myomer. And if you cut them to 10 heatsinks, you have to allow for the free space to be used and for them to install doubles. And your buffing survivability too as infernos now do not automatically cause crits. If your halving armour then you now give them all a +2 Hull down modifier to enemy gunnery when in any terrain. And they only spend 1mp to change elevation.

>>94729832
Where is this image from?

>>94732298
Blaine says otherwise

>>94731056
Never was

>>94731096
Please respond. Haven't been able to find anything explicit in TW.

>>94732435
How about you fuck off and do research

Just checks Cranston's horde and I couldn't find the new novel Trial of Birthright. Does anyone have it by chance?

>>94732498
Nope, go away

>>94732298
what? are we talking about red?

the basic approach I use is lay in a light red / pink, florescent orange highlight, then more darker red to bring it back down.

I am about to paint a red thing but it isn't BT related. Could post step by step if you want.

>>94732330
Tamar Rising pdf page 74, hinterlands map 3152, Butte is back under the Oberon flag. as it should be

>>94732541
Do it yourself, bud

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>>94732612
actually I guess that isn't where that particular zoomed in pic is from but the map I referenced reflects the same borders.

>>94732495
>>94732534
>>94732623
Lmao this cunt

>>94732495
You need to be over 18 to post in this thread

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>>94729712
When you guys go with a two-tone paint scheme, what do you do with the penis part? Make it follow the leg color, or the body color?

First time painting mechs and I'd thought I'd poll the fine minds herre for what they think.

>>94732887
The pelvis matching the body would give it that superhero underwear look

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>>94732623
I'm gonna take that as you wanting me to talk about red.

I like red. These are my favourite red paints. I use them left to right.

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>>94733006
then, starting with a black base I lay in the salmon pink, the fluorescent orange, then cover it all with speed paint and use a wet brush to wipe off the excess.

>>94732887
go for pants, personally

>>94732987
Very good point. Thanks.

>>94731128
>taurine are American

They aren't, stop saying this, I don't know where it comes from.

>>94732887
I usually make a hard line at the waist.

>>94733187
Memes

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I wonder if this actually saved it in a better format

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>>94733200
derp...

>>94733275
Sexy vehicles

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How did they fuck this up and why didn't they fix it yet?

>>94733376
what am i looking at here

>>94733376
Don't know why it's like that, but it was never changed because it doesn't affect anything outside of campaign play.

>>94732298
>picrel

I mean, it would probably work.

>>94733424
You're looking at a record sheet showing that the writer of the mech accidentially put the CASE on the torso with the LB-10-X cannon instead of the one with three tons of ammunition.
>>94733376
Why use opera?

>>94733424
I'm not sure if he's complaining about the way the actual autocannon crits have "cluster" on them as if they were ammo or the CASE being in the torso with the AC and not the ammo. But since this looks to be the MAD II 5A the latter is something done on purpose and is something pointed out by the fluff.

>>94733376
So if case restricts ammo explosions, will an autocannon put in case stop working or will fire only once?

>>94729810
HBS and Tex basically jumpstarted interest in Battletech for non-grogs

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>>94730795
>Alpha Regiment paints its units solid rust-red trimmed in black
Should be red like picrel.
>>94730971
>was likely just a painting issue trying to keep the red in that happy medium between not too bright versus to dim against the black paint
It's just people not understanding the instructions. "Rust red" is paint made with iron (III) oxide pigment. The orange versions come from people thinking it looks like rust, which often has orange shades. It would be like someone reading something is "titanium white" and then painting it silver.

/btgl, do you ever use a non-canon paint scheme from Unit Color Compendium for a canon unit, or do you just come up with your own?

>>94733728
Yeah, all the fuckin time. It's not like any of the "canon" paint schemes are hard and fast. Most are a vague, single sentence descriptions with a lot of latitude on interpretation. Also, when in doubt, just do camo. There's only a handful of units that don't use camo when on campaign.

>>94733728
I'm boring as fuck. All my dudes are just green.

>>94729712
Who is this semen demon

>>94733780
I don't see any in the OP.

What's your favorite OpFor mook mech?

>>94733856
Commando

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTktRDRQzIY
is he /ourguy/?

>>94733856
flea's, scorpions, urbies.

When a mech loses all armor and structure from its limb (or even lt/rt), does that limb literally fall off from the body or still there but not fuctioning anymore?

>>94733947
Christ, no.
He's too fucking stupid to play any part of the game if it isn't handled entirely by Flechs Sheets or MegaMek.

>>94733947
Holy based

Just opened up my mercenaries plastic models and started priming them and the primer is pooling. I'm not having this problem on anything else with the primer I use, anyone know if they came in some sort of release agent?

>>94734093
It's highly likely. You should always wash your minis before you start painting. Skill issue.

>>94733995
Up to however you wish to write it.
Either way, it will always be so damaged that it's effectively the same as not existing anymore

>>94733856
Dragons.

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>>94733947
>reccomends supporting your clan TC+LPL assault with a clan TC+LPL heavy
God himself has no love for this stupid, worthless fuck up. He should be hung in a public place by his ankles and beaten mercilessly until dead. The last he he feels should be the ash-wood barrel of a baseball bat smashing his skull open. That would be the only ethical and just thing to do to him.

>>94733995
If a limb loses all structure it's gone, if the corresponding side torso is destroyed the arm (or front leg for quads) falls off but is otherwise intact. Limb blown off crits is the only way legs/rear legs become detached.

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>>94734169
real question - what SHOULD you be using to support your giant clan pulseboat?

Should religions (other than WoB) take more prominent role in BT?

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>>94732541
>I am about to paint a red thing but it isn't BT related. Could post step by step if you want.
I'd love to see it, yes!

>>94734196
Personally I'm happier with them being left out of the spotlight. Every time something like BT tries to inject religious themes it always goes to hell. I say this as someone who is religious. I do not want it in BT. My dudes can be as religious as I want.

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>>94734196
>Should religions (other than WoB) take more prominent role in BT?
Fuck yeah, I wanna see some Knights of Saint's Cameron or the Far Reacher cults getting into some shit.

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>>94734196
They already are, in the holy places.

>>94733780
A retard who deserved to die when she got coup d'etated.

>>94734193
You shouldn't be playing giant clan pulseboats unless your opponent is also playing giant clan pulseboats, in which case you are both committed to making sure the other person does not have fun.

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Hey I've heard that the Draconis Combine would have infantry in exosuits carrying man-portable PPCs. Is that true? If it is, are there stats or a Sarna page for it?

>>94734220
The Cult of the Saints Cameron are actually supposed to be on the warpath in Ilclan, although it's not clear yet exactly how. They may side with the Ilclan if it presents its new star league appropriately.

>>94734196
I think it should be forms of government as #1, unique culture as 2nd and religion as maybe a distant 3rd.
A schism in the Unfinished Book Movement would be cool though.

>>94734218
This, religion can work in small stories where it's set on a single world or whatever, but religion shouldn't come into player on a wider scale, let alone seriously effect IS wide politics.
We got it with the WoB and its Jihad, it's over, it's done. No need to rehash it with a new coat of paint.

>>94734441
The Exituri on Shiloh were so pissed about Clan Wolf trying to caste them up that the death toll from their subsequent riots put compromise on the table. They're not going to be going anywhere though, at least not until the Silver Hawks make their way home.

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I may have gotten stoned and bought a 3d resin print. Pic rel. Those should take normal lacquer primers, right?

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>>94734414
Yes, multiple.
One of them is the kanazuchi.

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>>94734534
That's cool but I'm aware of BA PPCs, I'm talking about old school Exosuits. Like the stuff they armor up to make PA(L) Nighthawks.
I was told by someone else that in the earlier SW era the Dracs would use unarmored exosuits to carry around man-portable PPCs faster because Dracs are crazy people.
I just wanted to know if that was true.

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On Monday, I was challenged to a formal batchall by another player in my local group. Naginata Battalion answered the call, with the following mechs

>Catapult K3: Rebecca Utako(4/5)
>Marauder 5S: Raine Selene (4/5, Lance commander)
>No-Dachi 2KO, Casey Uzuka (4/5)
>Highlander 732b, Crystal Mazurkiewicz (4/5)

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>>94734626
My opposition brought the following

>Hunchback 4P (2/3)
>Marauder 5M (2/4)
>Bushwacker X1(2/4)
>Spider 7M(2/4)
I may have some of the pilot skills wrong, but the mercenaries were definitely elites.

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>>94734635
The battlefield was the decaying ruins of a defensive line left over from the succession wars.

>>94734193
They don't need support, spend the points on buys more/better flankers.
But, truthfully, what >>94734321 said.

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>>94734640
I didn't take photos for the first few turns, but they basically consisted of footsies as both sides jockeyed for position. The mercs sent their Spider around my flank, hoping to draw one of my mechs out of position, but in an incredible shot, Rebecca fired both her catapult's particle cannons in her rear arc, hitting with both of them on 10+, blowing open the Spider's rear torso and also critting its hip. That essentially mission-killed the Spider.

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>>94734649
With one mech down, I decided to abandon defensive play and move my mechs in to engage the mercenaries. My No-Dachi drew their fire, allowing the rest of my lance to concentrate on the Hunchback, which had its armor shredded and took two leg crits along with losing one of its lasers. My No-Dachi fell over, but took only armor damage.

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>>94734657
Meanwhile, Benny Hill music was playing as the Spider got up, ran, fell over because running with a hip crit, and tore off its already damaged right torso.

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>>94734665
The Hunchback and my No-Dachi both got up, and the Hunchback put seven lasers into my Highlander, hitting with all of them. My Highlander and No-Dachi, though, double teamed the Hunchback, putting it on the ground. Highlander stomped on it, but the No-Dachi chose to use an accurate sword strike. -2 for Sword and -2 for prone adjacent target canceled out the +4 for an accurate strike, and I hit, then got the 6 on the punch table I was fishing for as a TSM-enhanced space katana decapitated the Hunchback.

>>94734665
>the smug Catapult just sauntering away from the carnage it made out of an Elite Spider

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>>94734682
Surprisingly, the merc player wanted to play it out. A few turns later, the merc Marauder had jumped up into position for a punch-table kick on my Marauder, while my No-Dachi was chasing down the Bushwacker. It managed to get behind my No-Dachi because it won initiative, so Casey introduced the Bushwacker to the wonders of rear facing medium lasers and then a torso twist sword attack. The Marauder's kick went into my Marauder's only undamaged torso, failing to even knock her over, though my Highlander wiffed on her shots,

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>>94734702
In the end, it turned into a scrum, my whole lance against the Merc bushwacker and Marauder. The Marauder didn't manage to confirm a kill on Raine, and the Bushwacker, while trying to help, fell over. Casey was in position and went for another coup de grace - this one struck the left arm, chopping it entirely off and then following through to destroy the left torso as well, shutting down the XL engine.

At this point the Mercs were down to a battered but unbroken Marauder and a very battered Spider, while I still had my full lance, with only my Marauder even being crippled. We called it.

Was a pretty crushing victory overall. My belief that upgrading pilots leaves you at a disadvantage held through.

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>>94734712
My Marauder was the worst damaged, with two engine crits and blowthroughs in several locations. Next was the Catapult, which had taken fire several times and lost armor on both sides of her left torso. The highlander had taken a couple scratches to the structure and lost a single jump jet, and despite being in the thick of things the whole time the No-Dachi had only taken armor damage.

Dragon status: HONORED

>>94734563
Powered exoskeletons are common, if not standard, among the great houses' infantry, they all do stuff like that.

>>94734753
But those are distinct from PA(L) [until the Jihad/late Clan Invasion]

>>94734903
Yes.

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>>94734211
he has red pants.

... Post mechs?

>>94734753
Um, what?

>>94733780
It literally says her name in the OP.

>>94734903
It's mostly semantics between an exoskeleton made for civil use and one made for paramilitary use. Functionally the only real difference is all PA(L) inherently include life support and are enclosed while exos have to specifically do so. But also for man portable PPCs there's special gyroscopic harnesses for it allowing use without exos or PA(L)s.

>>94734534
Is that even a battlearmor, or does it just qualify as a light protomech?

>>94734966
Battle armor. The tonnage overlaps, but the distinction is technological. A 2t suit of battle armor runs on battery power and is controlled by a mix of walking and piloting type controls. A 2t protomech runs on a small fusion reactor and is controlled with enhanced imaging.

>>94734966
A lot of Inner Sphere designs have users piloting them in a cockpit instead of wearing it like a suit. Some artist interpretations of the Inner Sphere Standard has it twice as tall as an infantryman, but others have them just taller than the average person.

>>94734983
>A lot of Inner Sphere designs have users piloting them in a cockpit instead of wearing it like a suit.
Ah, thanks. I thought that a distinguishing characteristic of battlearmor was that it was worn, rather than piloted.

>>94735009
Eh, the main difference between BA, Protos, and Mechs at its core is tonnage. There's some overlap, the heaviest Assault BAs with the lightest Protos and the heaviest Ultraheavy Protos with Ultralight Mechs, but otherwise they're categorized by tonnage fairly neatly.

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The PA/BA discussion got me interested in looking at Protos a bit more and I found this
>Uses the WiGE system with no explanation
>Clan Wolf initially thinks it's some kind of ultralight LAM
What the fuck?

>>94735070
it's society tech I ain't gotta explain shit

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>>94734682
>enemy mech is knocked down and getting stomped by another mech almost twice its size
Weak. You dishonor the dragon.

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>>94735070
>Uses the WiGE system with no explanation
WiGE mech sounds pretty genius to me

>>94735126
Duels are the province of proper warriors, not mercenaries.

>>94735132
WiGE mode is was got LAMs junked. The initial rules made them hyper-mobile anime protagonists. Even the updated rules trying to nerf them still had them as too mobile.

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>>94735132
The problem isn't even that it's using WiGE, the problem is that it just does with no actual explanation how, despite apparently being part of the Hell's Horses touman for for half a century at this point.
That said, an established WiGE system for Protos would be pretty cool.

>>94735140
Ah, I see the Naginata Battalion describes itself as honorless brigands. Coordinator Takashi was right about you types.

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>>94735168
None of those have wings big enough, or low enough to get any ground effect. It also makes no sense to get that effect over the ground.

>>94735143
I'm not a fan of the WiGE, but I'd have been fine just reducing the speed to x1.5 flanking x2 cruising, and adjust the TMM/AMM to not so blatantly penalize the LAM while still making hitting anything back really hard at their high tier speeds. Yeah they'd still be really fast, but not nearly as crazy, and they'd still be undergunned in the ilClan+ moving forward.
At least ease up on the tech restrictions a bit, not being able to use FF is ridiculous.

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>>94735175
Nothing honors the Dragon more than victory.

Also Naginata are pragmatists and wouldn't waste unnecessary damage to their mechs dueling mercenaries.

>>94735216
Tell that to CGL, they shoehorned it in. It's not like people were begging for WiGE to be a thing.

>>94734936
All the great house militaries make use of powered exoskeletons.

>>94735240
Well, people who liked Shadowrun thought that they were super cool.

>>94735244
In the field? Standard?

Also, where's just say that?

>>94735009
Originally, yes. But it pretty quickly got to piloting. Almost immediately, if you count the Sloth - though at least there the pilot lies down and occupies the whole suit instead of being in a small discrete cockpit.

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>>94735217
Just leaving them out of the game is best, honestly. Everything that was, and still is, wrong with LAMs comes from the air-mech mode, which was the stupidest and most cartoony mode. If LAMs came back as just mech and aerospace modes, that would solve literally everything mechanically and lore-wise with them.

>>94735240
There's only a handful of ground effect vehicles, so it's not like they're really present in the setting. CGL has specced out more submarines than WiGE aircraft. When was the last time you heard about anyone talking about naval(ocean) cruisers?

>>94735387
>Just leaving them out of the game is best, honestly. Everything that was, and still is, wrong with LAMs comes from the air-mech mode, which was the stupidest and most cartoony mode. If LAMs came back as just mech and aerospace modes, that would solve literally everything mechanically and lore-wise with them.
The problem is though no matter how hard you need the Airmech mode, the ASF and Battlemech mode are so objectively bad that you couldn't ever justify using them.
If you got rid of Airmech mode, then you need to balance it out by improving on the other two modes.
Reduce the tonnage cost of the LAM Conversion Gear slightly, remove the advanced tech restrictions, and treat the Battlemech mode like it has Partial Wings. That way you can get rid of Airmech mode entirely and still make the LAM usable without it being outright broken in either direction.
>There's only a handful of ground effect vehicles, so it's not like they're really present in the setting. CGL has specced out more submarines than WiGE aircraft. When was the last time you heard about anyone talking about naval(ocean) cruisers?
That doesn't really detract from my point though? If anything it just further proves it was an unnecessary addition, even more so by being shoehorned onto LAMs

>>94735421
>how hard you need the Airmech mode
How hard you *nerf the Airmech mode

>>94735342
>people who liked Shadowrun
We call those people faggots

>>94735070
Looking at it's description, it looks like it could probably contend with AC1 armored cores.

>>94735421
>then you need to balance it out by improving on the other two modes
Why? Just have them be the niche machines they are. They make sense in strategic operations as reconnaissance units and not really anywhere else. It would just be another rare machine that nobody takes aside from narrative campaign reasons.

Something that tries to be a plane and a mech at the same time should be pretty compromised at being both.

How much would a 55-ton mech will weight after losing its LL, LA, LT, and half its CT? Making up /mydudes/ fluff and got curious how much cargo will this broken trophy will take

>>94735348
In the field, not standard, most great house infantry is unaugmented foot infantry.
I couldn't give you a picture of a paragraph, but exoskeletons are basic tech that everyone has.

>>94735467
The rules on Frankenmechs cover how much of the mass each body part weighs. I believe they're in Campaign Ops, but might be in Strat Ops depending on which book you have.

>>94735480
>source: trust me bro

>>94735467
>how much will a 55 ton mech missing almost exactly half of itself weigh?

Just call it 30 tons.

>>94735458
It really does seem like if the Society had won, the setting would have seen the rise of basically Armored Cores, omnipods are basically the plug and play limbs the ACs have after all.
Obviously the Devs would never have gone in that direction, but it could be a neat what-if. Like California Nebula without the blatant silliness to it.

>>94735524
I think the Society should've won just because the Homeworld clans having a big war that doesn't meaningfully change the status quo feels pointless

>>94735463
Anon just say you want the concept gone entirely, why even bother pretending mechanic changes like removing Airmech mode matter if you clearly wouldn't accept the idea of LAMs regardless of what's done with them. I'm not saying you have to like LAMs or acknowledge them in your games, but It's just arguing in bad faith to pretend you want any kind of change surrounding LAMs that isn't just an excuse to trash the mech type entirely.

>>94735531
It would have been interesting to see the Kerensky Cluster Clans split between the Society, the Uber traditionalists, and a Star Adder led coalition, but that would have required the writers actually giving a shit about them.

>>94735531
It would not have been pointless if the dickless wonders had done it with a bigger plan than just trimming setting fat and subsequently pissing off 45% of the player base than fielded Clans that were not the Big Four.

>>94735558
>45% of the player base than fielded Clans that were not the Big Four
There were only seven players back then??

>>94735563
We were a very dedicated seven!

>>94735524
>. Like California Nebula without the blatant silliness to it.

The entire point of the Cali Nebula was the silliness.

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Honestly I'm kinda bummed by the fact I ended up reading up and liking clans like Blood Spirit and Fire Mandrill way after they were killed off.
Feels like the homeworld clans that are left are really boring in comparison to the clans that were either killed off or left for the IS.
I mean, are Star Adder or Coyote anybody's favorite clan unironically?

At least Ice Hellion survived as a Galaxy in the Scorpion Empire, I find the little speed freaks endearing.

>>94735524
That's why Hell Horse is my favorite of the clans because they realize they're in a mech game and act accordingly like the society did. Sticking with protos and making cool new mech tech like the quadvees.
My heart'll break when they're destroyed because no fun allowed.

>>94735619
I know at least one hardcore Star Adder player. He and the local Burrock player aren't on speaking terms anymore. Never met anyone admitting to liking Coyote best.

>>94735619
>Coyote anybody's favorite clan unironically?
I think the concept of "Scientist caste lead to clan" could be cool, but it only leads to the Society, so who cares?

>>94735608
>The entire point of the Cali Nebula was the silliness
I know, and my point wasn't to knock it. I'm saying doing more non-canon/alternate timeline sourcebooks where they can take the the tech in wildly different directions from the main timeline would be a cool idea. A sourcebook where the Society won and developed their hyper advanced tech to the point where they built what are practically Armored Cores/Mobile Suits, and the ramifications of it, would be a cool idea imo.

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>>94735538
I'm the anon who said
>Just leaving them out of the game is best, honestly
Nothing said has been in bad faith. This whole conversation is about in what way LAMs could be brought back if they had to be. You're arguing for them to be balanced and viable, and I'm arguing that they should be niche and gimped. It makes no sense that a machine that acts as a walking tank and airplane wouldn't be compromised at both roles. You want them to have all three modes and for them to be good with one of them. The one broke mode on them is the one that makes the least sense. Just get rid of that mode outright and you have a mech that makes sense both mechanically and thematically.
>but then it won't be good and nobody would play it
The MUL is littered with mechs that are bad in a tabletop fight and nobody plays. Many of them are bad due to designs that only make sense thematically. They still have a perfectly valid place in the game.

This is just idle conversation about a "what if", and idk why you're getting defensive over it.

>>94735624
Same, I appreciate that they're the faction that uses basically anything mech related they can get their hands on and make it work for them. At this point I'm half expecting Hell's Horses to develop a Superheavy Quad and a semi-functioning Quad LAM.

>>94735655
Nothing in the rules against superheavy quads, but a superheavy tripod is better.

>>94735657
Oh I agree don't get me wrong, but would that stop the HHs from making one?

>>94735652
I'm not getting defensive, I just don't see the point of further gimping a unit that's already been heavily nerfed into the ground and retconned into being a boondoggle. Sure airmechs move really fast on the TT, but what does that matter if they can't really utilize that speed in any meaningful way? They can't hit anything worth a damn, and all you need is one hit to completely fuck them. Despite how much people harp on Airmechs being overpowered, that hasn't been the case in a decade at this point.
Either get rid of the Airmech mode or keep the tech restrictions. Doing both, on top of making them extinct in universe, is just outright malicious at that point. Especially when ilClan is basically the sandbox era.

>>94735619
Star Adder is my brothers favorite. He has something like three blood asps.

>>94735619
>Blood Spirit and Fire Mandril
What did you read that made you like them? They were always background states that never really took part in or did anything of note in any of the storylines. Kind of like reading Dune and coming away with your favorite characters being Paul's grandfather. They're just background filler, aren't they?

>>94735678
You keep saying they should improve them, but you never justify why. They were a boondoggle. Let them be a boondoggle.
>malicious
What? You're ascribing some sort of emotionally charged intent that just doesn't exist. They never really made a lot of sense from either a game design or backstory perspective. They were just a hold over from the models being unmodified copies from Macross.

>>94735495
Just research it if that isn't good enough for you.

Is there a system to convert vehicles into BSP cards? I'm not opposed to simplified non-mechs, but there's a pretty limited selection in the mercs box and the idea of 20 BV = 1 BSP doesn't seem to line up with the costs given on the cards.

>>94735757
If there's a formula process, it hasn't been published.

The costs on the cards are different from a simple 1:20 ratio because the BSP costs are determined from their card stats, not from their TW stats. So units that suffer or lose capability in the conversion are relatively cheaper.

>>94735708
>Blood Spirits
With Blood Spirits, I like their history and culture, how they initially went from trying to be the peace keepers and most open clan, even having a diplomacy corps to keep the comradery between the Clans alive, to being burned and becoming bitter and isolationist for it.
They still fostered a strong comradery between castes within their own clans, bonding via training their entire clan together in military basics regardless of caste or subcaste. It's interesting to see how they evolved such a dichotomy over time, giving off a bitter, hostile vibe to almost every other clan and viewing them as outsiders who perverted the original ideals the Clans were founded on, while simultaneously being the most open and inviting society between their fellow clanners. There was still some bias to Trueborn over Freeborn in the Warrior Caste, but a Freeborn was given the opportunity to prove themselves fairly, and if they did then they'd be treated as well as any other warrior.
They're a very close knit society, to the point that their labor caste outright rejected being taken by other clans, going up in arms to fight in behalf of Blood Spirit at its lowest point.
You're right that they're in the background, but that's because they're a super isolationist society that almost completely seperates itself from the rest of the Kerensky Cluster. It's basically a separate Clanner society entirely

>Fire Mandrills
There's an anon who has brought up the Fire Mandrills being their favorite a couple times here, so I looked into them out of curiosity.
They're basically a dozen clans in a trenchcoat, the Balkans of the Clans. Someone called them the Clanner Saiyan's and I don't disagree desu.
They're split by cliques that eventually became known as Kindraa, mini clans within the "clan". They have wildly different views and ideals and so are semi-isolated from the rest of the Clans, constantly focused on each other via internal warfare and politics. It's cool.

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>>94735815
I had to cut this short a bit because I ended up hitting the character limit, but basically they're really interesting in their own ways.
Also Fire Mandrill has a bunch of color schemes that really pop out and I like that.

>>94735637
Yeah, Coyote was a really cool idea, and i also liked the Wolf connection, but in the end nothing interesting was done with them. They didn't even get to lead the Society.

Plus the Society was wasted.

>>94735815
I know who those clans are, I was asking what you actually read to like them. They never had anything meaningful written involving them, so I'm wondering where the affection comes from. As far as I know, they amount to a collection of expository blurbs from various sourcebooks. If that's enough to get you excited for them, then more power to you.

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How bad/debilitating is having gauss on a torso without CASE?

>>94735941
It's not the worst, but getting CASE on there if you can is highly recommended, unless you both only play pickup games and have an XL engine

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>>94735735
>You keep saying they should improve them, but you never justify why.
Because the fluff actually makes them decent battlefield units. Not fucking boondoggles. They're high maintenance hangar queens, but you've got guys like Jeremiah Youngblood who's able to fight off a full lance of heavy introtech Mechs in a single Phoenix Hawk LAM. When they're working, they're actually good combat units that can use their speed and agility to fight off heavier opposition. They aren't useless mistakes, they're actually good combat units that people go out of their way to supply and maintain because they're actually GOOD. They're just weight limited and can't function to reasonably take ground, or hold it against heavy opposition, and they require an extremely expensive and dedicated support system to function.

The game should represent the fluff. The fucking OG fluff for LAMs says they're viable combat units. The rules don't make them viable combat units, and your solutions make them WORSE, not better. That's why they should fucking be improved. To represent the utility of what LAMs were supposed to be; a hyper expensive technological breakthrough the required the Star League to actually make work, but was ultimately worth all of the costs and maintenance for as long as those costs and maintenance could be made to work.

The current rules state and massively retconned fluff about "LAMs being useless boondoggles" is the singular result of a dev who had a personal, intense grudge against both the unit type and everyone who played them. There's an emotionally charged state about them because Herb Beas made his decisions about them from an emotionally charged state. Did you forget about the current rules and fluff being a deliberate attempt, with malice, to get players to never use the units?
>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/93411361/#93416339

Herb's long gone, good riddance, and his hateboner for them is no reason to require them to be shit units forever.

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>>94735959
>The fucking OG fluff for LAMs says they're viable combat units
Then the fluff is wrong. LAMs are an in universe mistake and should be gimped however possible to keep them as a permanent dead end in unit design.

>>94735959
You need to let go. It's done. It's over. You aren't going to get your way. LAMs are shit, always have been shit, always will be shit, don't belong in this setting, don't belong in this game, and are never ever going to, ever. No one of consequence gives a shit and has moved on, and everyone not of consequence has accepted reality and moved on. Now the only thing "emotionally charged" here is you, and it's bordering on hysteria.

>>94735953
>unless you have an XL engine
how so?

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>>94735984
>>94735990

>>94735990
>>94735984
Genuine LAM hate is indistinguishable from bait.
It's like schrodinger's bait.

>>94735959
Give me the option of putting Stealth armour on a LAM and I'll be happy.

>>94735995
If you have an IS XL engine, the destruction of a side torso destroys the mech because three engine crits, but it's salvageable. A 20 point Gauss rifle explosion will almost always destroy the side torso. CASE prevents ammo explosion damage from spilling out of the section it starts in, but it still wrecks the starting section and destroys the mech.

But if you're playing in a campaign, that mech can be salvaged and returned to service fairly easily. Can be a big deal.

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>>94735959
>>94735735
To add on to the other anon's point, It's very clear that there's a disconnect between modern LAM lore and older LAM lore. Modern lore insists that the LAM was a crazy boondoggle that no one would ever use in any capacity whatsoever, even something like a custom civilian market isn't even considered, even though plenty of people would find the idea of a personally owned flying mech to be cool.

Meanwhile in the older lore you had a Star League era experimental tech being constantly produced and utilized by every major state for over a century straight. They were seen as a niche but highly versatile mech in universe, and were used by basically everyone who could get their hands on some.
The SLDF had standardized LAM companies as standard in ever single Striker Regiment they had, the Successor States all used them in their scouting forces to various but consistent degrees across their nations.
Hell the FWL had the biggest amount after Star League. They loved the damn things so god damn much they formed entire battalions of only LAMs because they were such effective fast strikers and rapid responders.
The only reason they fell out of favor is because they were Lostech from the constant destruction of factories during the first couple Succession Wars. The Successor States didn't give them up by choice, they lost the ability to produce them outside of one factory in the Draconis Combine.
When the Nova Cats captured that last factory, the Dracs were genuinely terrified of the idea that they were going to supe up the Stinger LAMs with Clan tech and have to contend with super fast backstabbers. They were genuinely shocked to find out the Nova Cats completely wiped out the factory.
Hell the Clanners only hate LAMs because they don't fit in their strict caste system, not because they're bad. The Nova Cats saw the LANs as some heretical melding of ASF pilot and MechWarrior roles that was completely against what they stood for, because they're nuts.

>>94736002
That'd be fun so it's not allowed

>>94736021
tl;dr lol

>>94736001
You can always tell when they're full of shit. They'll act like they're being reasonable and act like you're being emotional for having an opinion, but the moment they can't argue with you they show they're just assholes, every time.

>>94735619
Apparently Coyotes were some writer's favorite, since that's how they managed to avoid getting completely wiped out in WoR.

>>94736024
Good thing CGL can't control what I do

>>94736048
They lost all credibility when they removed no torso twist quirk.

They would turn all battletech into bland oversimplified slop one step removed from checkers but you buy the chps individually for 6$ a piece.

Oh wait, that is Alpha Strike.

>>94736035
tl;dr lol

>>94736073
Cranky because you tried and failed to flank a King Crab aren't you?

I wouldn't mind LAMs being highly effective but at a BV price that accurately reflects their capabilities, like a 3067 tech medium LAM is as much of a fucking problem as a clan assault, but it is also clan assault expensive

>94736094
>3067 tech
grog detected

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>>94736094
How does a 5x multiplier on top of whatever the LAMs calculated BV is sound to you?

I'd always heard that LAMs were basically deliberately crushed because the guy in charge at the time just didn't like that stuff so he rewrote them to suck dick and no one likes them and they didn't work anyhow and no one ever ever tried to make them again so stop asking!
>>94735652
>It makes no sense that a machine that acts as a walking tank and airplane wouldn't be compromised at both roles
tbf it also makes sense than a machine that acts as a walking tank should also be massively compromised. It's just where you draw the line at what you're willing to excuse.

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>Catalyst being one of the game sponsors
Should this taken as a joke, or CGL actually survived to the 31st century like General Motors, Nissan and the others did?

>>94736130
I think of it in the same vein as I do Taco Bell being the only fast food joint to survive in Demolition Man.

>>94736128
>I'd always heard that LAMs were basically deliberately crushed because the guy in charge at the time just didn't like that stuff so he rewrote them to suck dick and no one likes them and they didn't work anyhow and no one ever ever tried to make them again so stop asking!
We have direct evidence on paper of this, in addition to eyewitness testimony, yes.

>>94736130
Probably a joke, plus maybe the artist running out of logos they could use without making anything new.

People nag on LAMs being unbalanced, but now we have assault mechs with partial wing that that regerate the same problem and everyone is fine with it now.

>>94734712
>My belief that upgrading pilots leaves you at a disadvantage held through.
I would not say it does, more it changes your investment type. You have to treat your upgraded asset with more care and use it wisely.
Thankyou for the batrep anyway, the other guy got thoroughly beaten. He made some pretty critical errors in my opinion; sending his spider forward too early and without support, and failing to support his other units or concentrate fire effectively. Guess he can't say your relying on a combined arms crutch any more aye?

>>94736094
I mean, the PH LAM is generally anywhere between 1500 to over 2000 depending on the canon variant, and none of them are particularly crazy. One has a a C3 and a Snub Nose I guess? You can't seriously tell me that's a bigger threat than something like a Warhawk though.
>>94736118
Oh god the arguments about this. I remember when there were some people genuinely defending it. To the point where some people insisted it didn't go far enough. The arguing got so bad on the forum that the mods outright closed it.

>>94736150
I suppose not. He can say it was luck, but really I spent the first few turns using the walls to control LOS specifically so that I could fish for lucky hits until one happened, and the Spider was it.

I do, however, need more broken end sections. If I do a wall map like this again I want more freestanding sections rather than continuous walls with a gap or two.

>>94736143
A 100t Clan assault has to invest 25 tons of mass and 16 criticals in order to move 3/5/6 by mixing Partial Wing and IJJ. That is not at all the same problem as LAMs.

I really wish c3 was worth it, but it just doesn't seem to be possiblecto make it work well enough to justify the cost.

>>94734635
>>94736150
I think upgrading Piloting is worth it, but Gunnery isn't. 4/4 is the sweet spot IMO

>>94735941
Same as any other 20-damage hit on your side torso.

>>94735652
>I do not like this thing
>Therefore you should not be allowed to use it
>As a compromise you can use it, but with these massively nerfed stats and rules
Oh hi Herb, I did not know that you posted here.
>It makes no sense that a machine that acts as a walking tank
"Walking tank" is very much a vidyaism, mechs in Battletech are extremely agile and capable of acrobatics with a skilled enough pilot.

>>94736128
Old LAM's moved using jump mp in Airmech mode, so you had a mech with 21+ jump movement, basically ensuring that they where always in your rear arc and where hard to catch. The downside was the heavily reduced firepower they carried and the campaign related issues (Battletech has always been a campaign game first and foremost).
Herb hates all things anime or fun though, and whilst he could not remove them entirely (he tried) he could make LAM's unplayable, to whit he rewrote the rules to make them move as a wige, not get any TMM unless they gave up shooting, autocrash if they took any damage, be destroyed if they entered any terrain hex, have huge AMM penalties in Airmech mode, have stupid campaign requirements, and some other stuff. The testers, including NEA, revolted and called him on his shit. In the end we got the compromise, LAM's are pretty awful now, but not completely unplayable.
Then Herb went and violated the treaty line with the Novacats, retconnoning in an anti-LAM autism crusade in which they flew all the way over to LAM Island on Luthien and raided it, destroyed the factory and filmed themselves breaking every single mould, machine component, and circuit board. By hand. And apparently the defenders just sat by and let them, instead of taking a golden opportunity to cripple a hated foe.
Herb is a salty, pathetic, person, and should be removed from anything Battletech related. And his retcons and lore rulings retconned out.

>>94736209
The company decided to nerf lams. The company is always right. No one who is a real Battletech fan should be complaining. If you're a fan you support what the company decides, period.

>>94736209
>"Walking tank" is very much a vidyaism, mechs in Battletech are extremely agile and capable of acrobatics with a skilled enough pilot.
This, it's a stupid idea pushed by secondaries. Honestly I don't know how anyone can take the walking tank thing seriously when jumpjets and the entirety of the light mech tonnage class exists.
You can't seriously tell me you'll look at a Wasp, Stinger, Locust, Jenner, etc and think "yes that's a tank alright"

>>94736158
>100t Clan assault has to invest 25 tons of mass and 16 criticals in order to move 3/5/6 by mixing Partial Wing and IJJ. That is not at all the same problem as LAMs.
Yeah, that's extreme. Let me introduce you to the Jade Phoenix with a UAC20, several lasers, and a partial wing that jumps 7 thanks to IJJ's. Or even better, the 55-70 ton monsters that can go even further, have a +4 or better TMM, and run completely cool. LAM's are not a problem and have not been since they stopped using Jump mp in Airmech mode
>dictated the engagement using terrain
As I said, your opponent was outskilled in the gameplay department. You beat him because he was simply nowhere near as good as you are, he let you engage in a manner of your choosing.
Terrainwise, I prefer to set up terrain that "makes sense". Long continuous walls with a gate or two make more sense and look better imo, over a scattering of wall sections with no rhyme or reason for being there. Terrain should never be "balanced" or set up for game purposes - that's how you get gw mirror match boards of nonsensical L shaped ruins.

>>94736202
Gunnery helps a lot in the long range or high mobility fights. And it makes lore sense when your running Clanners. 2/3 sucks to pay for, but it is correct for lore accuracy for a frontline unit (3/4 is an inexperienced Trueborn)

>>94736202
The value of piloting can vary based on terrain, if there's lots of pavement or water and other PSR inflicting hexes it can make a bigger difference than when dealing with mostly ordinary ground. And some of the rules in TacOps really let skilled pilots flex more.

>>94736237
>Long continuous walls with a gate or two make more sense and look better imo, over a scattering of wall sections with no rhyme or reason for being there
I'm picturing 4-7 sections of wall, each about 2-5 hexes long, in two sets and all facing the same direction, implying that it's the remnants of an old, old double wall that's decayed and been scavenged for gravel over the centuries since it was last relevant.

I love the whole "fighting in ruins of centuries old wars" element of Battletech and like to emphasize it.

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>>94736266
>I love the whole "fighting in ruins of centuries old wars" element of Battletech and like to emphasize it.
Based

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>>94736266
>I love the whole "fighting in ruins of centuries old wars" element of Battletech and like to emphasize it.

>>94735641
I remember reading a what-if fic, Fighting Uphill, about if the IS hadn't regressed tech wise and actually grew a widespread cottage industry style tech development where how advanced the is was was different from planet to planet. It's written in the perspective of the Wolf's Dragoons when they first come to the IS.
The Successor States in particular had some insanely fancy tech, the Cappies with Urbanmechs using Stealth Armor and Plasma Rifles, Lyrans with a Superheavy mech battalion. Waco's son piloted a Hatchet wielding Charger in Hardened armor instead of a stock locust like in canon, etc etc.

Anyway my point is a what-if source/plot book set in an IS that never regressed during the Succession Wars, but instead kept improving their tech base in a wildly different direction than the Clanners would be a cool idea imo. I'd play that.

Maybe another what-if source book where Katherine didn't cause the fall of FedCom and Victor stepped up to become it's leader.

>>94736395
That was a good fic. Ended at an unfortunate place. Would have been nice to see where it went from there. Also the wedding was funny as fuck "it's what I would have done" lmfao.

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>94736282 #
>>94736342 #
Picrel. This base may have been abandoned for three hundred years, but Cobalt Company's tech teams are still able to use the remnants of the facilities to patch up their mechs enough to face a lance from Naginata Battalion

>>94735959
You're missing the point entirely. LAMs aren't a dead end tech because they suck, LAMs are a dead end tech becuase they're too good. They fundamentally break the game IRL, so they remain dead in universe.

Thank god for that decision.

>>94736448
No I think they're a dead end because they make nerds cry since they're too cool and move too fast.

Might as well say the canon needs to be changed so the universe explodes if you field too many savannah masters, if the tabletop is rewriting the lore for balance purposes.

>>94736448
>>94736581
The only thing they break is the 2D6 system

>>94736581
Being too OP in real life is literally the reason why LAMs still aren't a thing anymore, despite it not making any sense in lore. Word of God.
They did the same thing with Monitors, but even harder.

You may not like it, but it's still true.

>>94736605
Yes, see above.

>>94736209
>LAM's are pretty awful now, but not completely unplayable.
Good. Herb's cringe lore aside what he did was totally justified

Is it known what size hexes the gundam game is going to use? If theyre the same size I'm thinking it would be fun to make boards and terrain thats compatible with both games.

>>94736682
They'll be totally different in sizes, because doubling up for compatibility is anti-capitalist.

>>94736682
If I recall they're slightly to somewhat bigger, so rebasing might be in order. Since they're full models with apparently footpegs it should be hard to, or to even make them convertible. Otherwise I'm sure there's lots of people that seem interested in using them for other games. I'm very interested to see what the communities come up with for them.

>>94736663
The problem isn't even nerfing them, pretty much everyone agreed they needed to be nerfed. The problem was Herb tried to ruin them in an effort to make them entirely unplayable. Nothing he did was justified, he was just an autist who unironically pushed to make me hs play more like tanks.
The fact LAMs are still usable if objectively awful are in spite of Herb, not because of Herb.

>>94736682
I didn't know know there was a Gundam TT game coming out, seems like a weird time to release one desu.

>>94736751
>>94736723
>>94736682
Just use heroclix hexes.

>>94736659
I'm just gonna say battletech has a proud history of grogs saying "they ruined it so I'm gonna ignore anything after this point" and I'll gladly continue that tradition if it suits me.

>>94736202
I dunno, even increasing your gunnery from 4 to 3 can massively increase your odds to hit. That's why it's so expensive most of the time.

>>94736659
>They did the same thing with Monitors, but even harder.
What did they do to Monitors? They're just warships without jumpdrives, what's there to nerf?

>>94736760
Witch From Mercury was a big success and this is probably a follow on from that.

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LAMs are cool and while they should be kind of rare or specialised in my opinion they should be around still. It's unfortunate that someone had such a hissy fit about them existing in a setting so heavily inspired by mecha anime including Macross.

>>94736448
So many things break the game, old LAMs are but one example of how you can mess with it, but far from the only one.
If you think the game was ever meant to be balanced by anything other than your own restraint in what kind of units you bring or build then you're mistaken.

>>94736798
They're not legal. There is no warship without a jumpdrive and the only naval weapons you can put on droppers are missiles.

>>94736798
Jumpdrives take up 47% of a warships allocated tonnage.

If you can't figure out how freeing up nearly half of a ships allocated weight to fit more murder into it isn't broken then I don't know what to tell you. Point is that the devs made it impossible to transport anything bigger than a dropship so that monitors would be a dead end concept.

>>94736800
>Witch From Mercury was a big success
???

>>94736817
>So many things break the game, old LAMs are but one example of how you can mess with it, but far from the only one.
>If you think the game was ever meant to be balanced by anything other than your own restraint in what kind of units you bring or build then you're mistaken.

Tell that to Catalyst, not me.

>>94736818
>Jumpdrives take up 47% of a warships allocated tonnage.
>If you can't figure out how freeing up nearly half of a ships allocated weight to fit more murder into it isn't broken then I don't know what to tell you. Point is that the devs made it impossible to transport anything bigger than a dropship so that monitors would be a dead end concept.
NTA but so what? Obviously Monitors are fucking busted, just like Warships were already fucking busted. That's why they're so limited to begin with, Warships are canonically the ultimate beat stick in the setting. Neither a Warship nor a Monitor is ever going to be used in a serious game for anything more than a plot device, so why the hell would you bother making them illegal when you've already had good reasons for both why they aren't everywhere and the few that exist aren't being actively used?
This a ban that accomplished nothing but add another plot hole to the setting.

>>94736929
Kinda relevant to Aerospace games.
Arguably less of an issue to not have Monitors just because most canon warships have so much tonnage wasted on cargo space that you can make perfectly fine custom death machines that have too many guns to roll for in a reasonable amount of time without the need to remove the KF-drive for even more free tonnage.

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>>94736800
mechs

>>94736974
>Aerospace games.
I'm sure all three people who play aerospace games will care.

>>94737000
Never been a gundam enjoyer and I don't think this game will change that.

>>94737011
>all three
No bully.

>>94733275
>>94733266
>>94733250
>>94733235
May your move be uneventful and easy, bottom

>>94736395
>>94736422
Pretty decent fic.

>>94736751
I didnt think abour using BT size bases instead of the bandai size ones, so maybe it will be nice if both games can benefit from terrain since bother mechs are roughly the same scale.

Personally I think the gunpla game looks like shit but we'll see as they reveal more.

>>94737000
I feel like a fool hoping Bandai wouldve made something that actually had scale etc

>>94737000
seeing the little ball guys included gives me hope that it wont be purely heroic level skirmishes. I wonder if this will compete for shelf space with BT at bookstores since gundam is the far more recognizable and accessible IP.

>>94737000
The problem i see is they're fighting in space, which is accurate to a lot of Gundam if my secondhand impression is right, but also leads to boring ass games because no terrain.

>>94737207
There's Minovsky Particles, which deny you the use of your fleet assets and electronic recon, but I don't think the game's going to be complex enough to allow for Double Blind.

There also are space colonies and asteroid bases, but those are large enough to contain fleet assets and be terrain on their own right.

>>94730130
how would you have written that line?

>>94737238
Yeah I more mean "the board will always be boring because it's just a hex grid on a space pattern, maybe with debris or asteroids"

Take the hex grid away and it's half the reason I stopped playing X-Wing.

>>94735619
it's a shame the scorpions are boring as fuck

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>>94735619
>I mean, are Star Adder or Coyote anybody's favorite clan unironically?
i play Coyote because it seemed easy to paint. all my sway (patch, shirt, coin, dice, etc) are Cloud Cobra.

>>94737259
Sounds like someone got their ancient mechs stolen.

>>94737259
True. They just stole traits from the Wolves and Nova Cats.

I don't get why they survived, but like the Coyotes they must have a writer that likes them.

My group has had fun and genuine success using "simplified" LAMs in our version of MCAs hex campaign rules: use them as normal mechs in battle, but if you have a lance of them you can 'fly' anywhere on the map in campaign movement. Making them more of a raiding/striking force. With a special campaign ability that you pay for in bv of your force.

So far it hasn't been broken at least, but ymmv

>>94737295
Do you just not let them transform?

>>94737289
i think it was over when snord wasn't make a scorpion

>>94737300
Yeah basically. They're stuck in mech mode for the games. Their ability to transform it fluffed to be used for the campaign movement, with airmech mode being the reason they don't need runways, and plane mode being the reason they can move anywhere on the campaign map.

What happens when a 55 ton mech attempts to DFA a 3 level CF40 building?
Are you allowed to DFA structures? I assume yes because the only units you explicitly aren't allowed to DFA are aerospace and submerged naval units.
I assume that when a 55 ton mech DFAs a structure, the attacker needs to make a PSR to hit, but structures don't have a piloting value, like infantry. I will assume that instead the roll is made at a -4 for an immobile target? This means that in almost all cases it's an automatic hit.
The structure takes 17pts of damage, reducing the CF to 23 and the attacker takes 11pts of damage from the DFA.
The target structure can't be displaced, but a mech can stack in that hex.
The Attacker also has to make a PSR to avoid a fall at +4.
Mechs can't use jumping MP to enter a building, so the Attacker would be landing on the roof, and thus be at level 3. Assuming you have to take the DFA PSR immediately, and fails, the mech makes a 0 level fall onto the roof of a level 3 structure which is then resolved for 6 damage, followed by the building collapsing and the mech suffering a 3 level fall and taking 24 damage plus 4pts from the CF40 building? If the attacker passes the DFA PSR to not fall, they are on their feet when the building collapses and automatically fall 4 four levels taking 24 damage from the fall and 4pts from the cf40 building collapsing?

>>94737314
Check whether the DFA rules specify you have to target a unit or not. If they say unit, you can't DFA an inanimate object.

if a mech falls over, does it fall in the exact same hex it's currently in, or does it move?

>>94737338
It mostly seems to say "target hex"

>>94737356
AFAIK a mech will always fall in the hex that it is in when it makes the PSR to avoid falling. There are edge cases where a mech will be displaced from its current hex, fail a PSR, and fall, and cases where a mech can fall, and then be displaced after having fallen by another unit in the same turn.

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>>94735619
Yeah the Blood Spirits were actually pretty unique among the Clans.
It's a shame they bit it instead of some of the superfluous Clans (Coyotes, Scorpions, Cobras, etc).

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>>94737207
In AeroTech, the terrain is usually a planet's gravity well where putting your fighter in those arrow squares moves your ship in that direction. Was an interesting system, could orbit a planet if going slow enough. The main consideration for movement was also how much fuel/reaction mass your fighter still had. Also important is that weapons have much longer ranges in space.

Wish I could play that game one more time.

>>94736395
>"All right." she said slowly. "I want a preliminary design proposal and cost-benefit analysis for this flying superheavy on my desk by the end of the month."

Kek. Lyran Pride, Spherewide.

>>94737356
>>94737373
Imagine you have a CF 35 Level 7 building in Hex A. Surrounding it are 6 hexes. Hex side B is a level 1 building, Hex C is a level 2 building, Hex D is a level 3 building, Hex E is a level 4 building, Hex F is a level 5 building, and Hex G is a level 6 building. 7 wasps enter the building on different levels, doing 14 damage to the structure and reducing it to CF 21. Since the wasps are 20t each, the building remains standing. A Spider then jumps onto the top of the building, causing it to collapse. All mechs then suffer a fall in Hex A. Wasp 1 is displaced into a new hex by Wasp 2, Wasp 2 is displaced by Wasp 3, Wasp 3 is displaced by Wasp 4, wasp 4 is displaced by wasp 5, wasp 5 is displaced by wasp 6, and wasp 6 is displaced by wasp 7. Spider 1 then displaces wasp 7 into one of the six hexes, which results in wasp 7 have to displace one of the previous wasps.

>>94737207
Space terrain is actually a pretty big deal in a lot of Gundam. In the original setting, there are only so many places in space you even can practically go to and there were already a loooot of fights along the way to most of them, leaving large fields of destroyed space ships. The best fight a Ball ever had was a 1v1 in a debris field where sneaking around in cover and using the debris itself as a weapon featured. Of course, the Ball was piloted by a protagonist, so it had literal plot armor (as in it got shot and didn't die immediately like they normally do) but still, terrain was the defining feature of that fight.

>>94737441
...the aristocrats!

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>>94737410
Haha yes

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Circa 3025, which Great House capital world would be the comfiest to live on?

>>94737469
Tharkad

>>94737489
Tharkad's too damn cold

>>94737469
Luthien is right out, its got so much industry that its environment is described as "decayed".
Tharkad is very cold.
Sian is warm and apparently has strict environmental protections, so it might be nice if you aren't a servitor.
New Avalon is almost earthlike, although its gravity may be very slightly higher depending on source. And hey, it actually has infrastructure because a Davion sees it with their own eyes.
Atreus also seems earthlike, although its equator seems to be much hotter and wetter. Details are sparser though.

>>94737469
Objectively?

Atreus.

Luthien is an industrial hellhole.
New Avalon is like Space New York, with some nice areas but mostly slums with out-of-date tech.
Sian is starving.
Tharkad is so freezing it's mostly inhospitable, and it's riddled with state terrorists.

Atreus is modern, democratic and egalitarian, and is the only pristine capital left untouched by the Succession Wars.
You literally can't find anything negative about it in the 3025 Marik housebook.

>>94737539
>and it's riddled with state terrorists.
...which won't touch you if you just shun the company of people who clearly aren't patriotic enough.

>>94737314
You weigh 55 tons, more than the buildings 40CF. It collapses and you fall through to the ground and have to make a basement check to see if you fall further. Your mech may not survive and is probably buried but hey. You do you.

>>94737575
Unless you end up on the ass end of an indiscriminate terror bombing or truck of peace or happen to be in the same hotel as their target when they raid it and take everyone hostage.

>>94737613
That just means that you associated with people who hate the Lyran Commonwealth.

>>94737539
>can't find anything negative about it

Mariks live there

>>94737684
Are you a cyborg or.... a heavy gravity worlder?

>>94737469
Taurus
Canopus IV

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>>94737684
Being an expert of normal human's looks, I'm pretty certain that this poster is a heavy gravity worlder cyborg.

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Are tactical spats a part of regulation mechwarrior suit in the Davion military?

>>94737380
>superfluous Clans
>Coyotes
Needed for the plot to show Clan runned by Scientist caste
>Scorpions
Some clans had to be less retarded than others. Besides, it's payed out Hanseatic Crusade was pretty cool
>Cobras
Snake Alliance was kind of essnetial
But yeah, killing Blood Spirits off completely was a mistake

>>94737703
Only when deployed to shithole jungle worlds like Sarna

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>>94737703
My descendant.

>>94737773
do the davions also get wiped out by space-mugabe?