Years keep incrementing but the Oldhammer stays Oldhammer editionPrevious thread:>>94626373Check out here for useful links and a catalogue of relevant miniatures retailers:>/GROG/ Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/nnNqqFLnThread Question that's actually just canvassing for information: the pastebin could use updating at some point, which companies are dead, who is new and notable?
are there any modern rules that offer a similar experience to 2nd edition 40K?
>>94722270Yes that what I decided on too. My definition for locked in combat is the same as 4th ed, if you have a model within engagement range the unit is locked in combat. My problems started when I wanted to define 'engaged' as 'in base to base contact' (for dealing with pile ins and such), while also wanting to define an engagement range which is notably not base to base contact. I ended up working myself in circles for a while. Anyways, here is the boiled down engagement range definition. I ended up settling on having two versions, rather than a variable engagement range. I think it keeps things simpler and easier to understand and remember.>>94728368You got the tldr for the changes from 3rd ed to 4th ed? I remember reading through one of the chapter approved books experimental rules and thinking "this is just like 4th ed".>>94731875You asking about the battle bible?
>>94732011>tldr for the changes from 3rd ed to 4th ed
>>94728368Geez man it's total grog talks to me. What's a leafblower or lawnmower list and the firefight range concept?
>>94732221Not lingo used in my play group or lfgs at the time but not hard to figure out. >leaf blower Removes things at distance with ease. >lawn mower Removes/destroys things via blades with ease. >firefight range Common military slang for short range shooting in a hectic and dangerous way.
>>94732221I apologize for the level of deep, cynical tourneyfagging I am about to expose you to. >What's a leafblower A list that uses huge numbers of high-AP 5" template weapons to delete the opponent's army from the map in the first turn or two. Particularly infamous with tank-heavy Imperial Guard lists and the Iron Warriors. The changes to Ordnance/Guess range weapons and the changes to tanks firing on the move going into 4e are a big part of what enabled leafblowers.>lawnmower list A back-coining for a list that uses a couple of large, powerful melee units to repeatedly chain Sweeping Advances to kill multiple enemy units per turn, usually also had several "tarpit" units that were impossible for most troops to beat quickly enough in close combat to be able to take a Shooting phase. Ideally the assault army would use large transport vehicles, fast walkers, or (in the post-Armageddon codex IG) big blobs of Conscripts or Hive gangers to get involved in huge assaults and position an unengaged models to block off the center of the table. To explain exactly how abusive this was, the changes to picking the order of wounds in combat, not allowing infantry to block LoS, requiring all models to enter B2B if they could, adding Morale to Walkers along with the ability to hit them with grenades and taking damage when Outnumbered, the complete overhaul of Sweeping Advances and what happens when a unit Sweeps into combat with another one, and limiting characters' ability to fight when not in base-to-base were *all* meant to counter this style of list. >the firefight range concept?Instead of seeing the table as just "shooting" or "assault", taking advantage of 6"-12" range weapons as an alternative to assaults. Again, this was a thing that Sisters and Necron players had already been doing for a while; the tweaks to Rapid-Fire weapons made Marine players start considering it as well. Also why Fleshborers stopped being bolters.
>>94731294Emperor's Teeth, those are some sharp-looking Blood Angels! My ladz are (mostly) Third Company.
>>94731875I read people comparing it a lot to "Shadow War: Armageddon" but someone else would need to confirm how much.
>>94732667Having played both, 2nd when I started and SWA when that was out it's pretty similar. The basic mechanics are the same but obviously things like coherency aren't in there. SWA is basically 1st Edition Necromunda with 2nd Edition 40K units brought in. If you haven't given it a go I'd highly recommend it. It's great fun. The only bit that begins to feel odd is pinning chaos marines with some random genestealer firing an autogun but we just house ruled things like that.
>>94732788Can confirm, SWA is great fun but there are some absolute ass desing desicions like including harlequins, tyranid warriors and fucking grey knights.
>>94732667>>94732788Hmm, sounds cool. Do you have a link to the rules/army lists? Does the game require anything other than the rules and minis, like cards?
>>94732377Wow. This explains so much. Reading through 4th as a modern gamer I found the "who can fight in an assault", consolidation and pile-in really cumbersome. Especially when the game couldn't bother itself with allowing your troops or enemy ones to block line of sight.Truly you can't embrace a historical text if you don't have the proper context.So assuming my friend and I would only play 40k in 40 Minutes (also known as Combat Patrol if I'm not mixing stuff up) most of these changes from 3rd to 4th could easily be dismissed as they'll be no way for us to abuse the system anyway? I don't intend to remove much but having troops block line of sight makes for more interesting movement decisions.
>>94733700If I recall correctly in 4th (and 5th) you cannot shoot through allied units, and shooting through enemy units grants a cover save to those behind.
Cleaning out my hard drive, so I'll be dumping some albums. These are kind of unorganized, I might clean them up as I go. First one is a bunch of /grog/ art, 40k, Mutant Chronicles, some other stuff probably mixed in. Full link in the attached pic because 4chan spam filter is finnicky.a/grog-art-XOit2cB
>>94733725Allied and enemy vehicles, monsters and artillery block line of sight in 3rd and 4th.Allied infantry do not block line of sight in 3rd and 4th.Enemy infantry block line of sight in 3rd but not in 4th.
>>94731294That’s a really well executed paint job on those minis. I’d be proud if I were you.
>>94733807Links to scans of various old stuff. Some of them I did myself, including Vor Maelstrom scans. a/PYP00dy
>>94733807>>94733867I have this fever dream of a Titan or Knight climbing a giant ladder, but I’ve never been able to source the image. 99% sure it was a small b&w ink drawing probably only appeared once or twice. Any ideas?
>>94731294Damn those are some amazing bangles. I wish I had a RT Land Raider.
>>94734607here
Converted a modern ork vehicle into a buggy for my 3rd ed speed freeks
>>94733700>So assuming my friend and I would only play 40k in 40 Minutes (also known as Combat Patrol if I'm not mixing stuff up) most of these changes from 3rd to 4th could easily be dismissed as they'll be no way for us to abuse the system anyway? I don't intend to remove much but having troops block line of sight makes for more interesting movement decisions.It does, and that was the general theory going into 3e. With the basic rules it doesn't seem to be an issue. The problem came when a certain kind of person got handed the ability to make 20 and 40-man units and started locking off 3/4 of the table.>40k/40m and Combat PatrolThe first was the original fan term, the second one was the one GW started using when they finally put stuff in White Dwarf. I also highly recommend looking at the OG Kill Team rules in the 4e rulebook and White Dwarf, they're basically an entire Specialist Game hidden in the back and they're quite a lot of fun to model for.
>>94735297>4th Edition is mostly a balance patch because try harder were abusing the game.There's so many online talks recommanding 4th Edition, but no ones explains how you can still opt-in 3rd if you intend to keep it small, friendly and simple. A shame as I find the 3rd Edition rulebook easier to read and better illustrated.>OG Kill Team is fun.Yeah man, I discovered it at my mate's house few years ago while browsing his pile of oldies. We gave it a try and had a blast, way funnier than Kill Team 2017 as there's a real Commando vibe to it instead of "okay you sent a kill team but guess what so did the enemy so now it's a mirror match".There was always one or two kids running around so we took the habits to stop one of them and ask him where the mooks would go instead of throwing a scatter dice. Good family fun.I came back home with a copy of the 4th Ed. rulebook but quickly discovered the Kill Team rules inside are differents than the White Dwarf version. Still have to give this one a go.
>>94733539https://tinyurl DOT com SLASH edmz2zh7That's a link to my personal Google drive. If you request access I'll get an email, mention where you are from and I'll grant you access so you can have a browse. Big rulebook is in there, rosters, extra WD kill teams etc. Knock yourself out.If I remember rightly you only need a roster sheet & dice. No cards or anything like that. Some tokens like pinned, run, overwatch etc would be fun to give it that Oldhammer vibe though.
>>94733539nta, but here's a link with the rulebook and all the PDFs published by GW: > Shadow War - Armageddonhttps://gofile.io/d/fPLnjq
Does anyone feel a bit sad sometimes when they grog out? I don't know. But reading old White Dwarfs and army books, painting old minis, looking at old art, playing games of old Warhammer editions, etc. A part of me just feels a bit sad sometimes when I do it, as if I'm talking to ghosts. Or standing in the ruins of a cathedral, it's a reminder of a once glorious past, but also a reminder that it's gone. I will forever love the incredibly rich and detailed worlds that Warhammer 40k and Fantasy gave us, but I do hate what it has become, I really do. It just makes me a bit wistful knowing that all the original visionaries who created these amazing settings moved on due to a disillusionment with the way things have gone. On top of that, Games Workshop skyrocketing in success by piggybacking off the love and labour that those original writers put into those worlds just feels like a bit of a mockery. Games Workshop today have basically nothing to do with the masterfully crafted worlds of Warhammer, but they champion it as if it's their own creation when in reality it's that of Priestley and friends. Any nu-lore that comes out is just IP protection and brand promotion slop.Anyways, I'm not going to stop loving Warhammer and I know it's up to us to live in our own grog bubbles and keep that old school spirit alive. I guess when something explodes in popularity, commercialisation like this is probably inevitable, but still, it just hurts sometimes man.
>>94736374ikwym but that is exactly the reason we're all here. It is that sting that sparks us to participate in this and hold on to it. Same goes for all cultures, like you said standing in ruins of old cathedral. It is not enough to emulate it if it lacks the SOVL
>>94736374None of the interviews I've seen have suggested anyone involved is bitter about the direction GW has gone in. They knew they were making things for a company and they wouldn't keep creative control. Priestly in particular is pretty clear that 40k was already very different from the way he imagined it by the mid 90s, never mind that 40k wasn't the "Rogue Trader" he joined GW to make in the first place.Besides, one of the great things about old Warhammer was that it was an unapologetic hot mess of pop culture cliches far more than a coherent artistic vision.
>>94736440>the SOVLI keep being struck by the irony of people describing that special extra thing... using little but pre-canned "me too" phrases.
>>94736483I wouldn't say bitter either, but from the interviews I've read I do get the impression that there's a sense of disappointment. Take for example this excerpt>By that time I think the GW management team had changed a great deal and the business was run by people very disconnected from the hobby. The company had settled down into a very limited product range and a single-minded business model - so there was increasingly little for me to do. There were some aspects of the business that I felt were not being handled well and at that time 'other voices' were in the ascendant.I don't get the impression that he stopped working for GW full of delight with what had become of Warhammer. Of course these dudes are professionals and they understand how things go, but there's no way they don't regret a little bit how slop it became. I imagine they've all moved on and largely don't care about Warhammer anymore but still.Anyways, regardless of what the OG writers feel about what Warhammer has become, doesn't change the fact that what Warhammer has become is GAY. I hate the Tau hentai gooners, I hate the kids creaming themselves over Marvel Primarch superhero drama, I hate tacticool rocks, I hate Age of Sigmar, I hate nu-White Dwarf, it's all just so fucking cringe.
>>94736554>so there was increasingly little for me to doSeems to be the relevant part of that quote. Priestly has said he doesn't even know what has happened with Warhammer after he left. Whereas he thinks it's a shame Warmaster never got a box release: he couldn't get his own project released the way he wanted.I don't have any issue with you hating modern GW, but I don't think it's fair to drag the creators in and claim they feel the same way.
>>94736643I've never said they hate it though. I just imagine that there's a similar sense of disconnect with what it is now, wouldn't you say so too? This is from the same interview>...even if the 'GW hobby' is not necessarily something I recognize or which I'd enjoyIt's clear what it was to what it is now is not something that resonates with him, and I guess that's fine. It's beyond the point, anyways, the point being that the original creators of these universes have long moved on and are no longer interested in Warhammer at all, and that just adds to that regretful feeling I get when I grog out.
>>94728368>4e also started pushing the concept of "firefight range" which had mostly been a term the fans were using themselves up to that pointThat's a beautiful design choice from the 3rd edition. Basically all light shooting is restricted to 12 inches, kinda like firefights in Epic Armageddon. Rapid fire was restricted to 12 inches if you moved, pistols were restricted to 12 inches, most assault weapons were restricted to 12 inches. And if you were within 12 inches of the enemy, it meant that the enemy was close enough to assault you the next turn. Design choices like this make the 3rd edition the best edition to play.
>>94736496>people communicate using words
>>94736709Without recalling the exact context, that sounds far more like an issue with the way the game is managed than a complaint about the modern direction of the fluff. Stuff like needing to use only official models and aggressive copyright enforcement as opposed to publishing silly things from fans in Citadel Journal and letting New Epic exist.
>>94737459There are roughly 470,000 words in use in modern English. Meanwhile, on 4chan, you will be bullied for being literate, and praised for using meme arrows and stock phrases. Part of it is a global userbase and language barriers, part of it is subliterate children, and part is just a symptom of changes in culture that the older userbase feels disdain for. This is a grog thread after all.
>>94736496I knew using that was a mistake, was just trying to be funny. Dont know which one of us is more autistic tho.
Thanks to the feedback from a kind anon in the previous thread I've made changes to the formatting and the like of my 2nd edition backport project and gotten started on Chaos backports. It's not a whole lot but I hope I've gone in the right direction in writing this and hopefully you guys enjoy what's done so far.
Is there a collection of homebrew codices for later factions? I glanced at the megas in the OP, but I didn't find any.
>>94741440bro look above your post
>>94741597I was more asking for a collection of them. I want to play 3rd edition but if I found a folder where someone else had already collected every single edition, I'd happily take it. Me and my friends are planning to mess around with every edition after 3rd, so 2nd and Rogue Trader isn't really on the table.
>>94736066You can use 3rd ed codicies but use the base 4th ed rulebook. In fact, you could use the 3rd ed rulebook but with the tiny changes listed in >>94732175 because that's all they changed rules-wise.
>>94741614I have some, but they are for my own 4th/5th/6th homebrew ruleset.
Alright I've been working on the 10th update to my 999.m41 homebrew ruleset for a while now and wanted to share it.Im curious to know what era people here prefer to play, how many gravitate to the left side of 3rd ed vs the right side systems (so 3rd to 7th)?
Hello /Grog/Looking for an ID on a mini, a High elf in metal, arms crosse din front, sword in the back. I check online, tried the Fantasy general, no dice.I was told to try here.
>>94742624The Back.
AAAAAH! Help me grogs!I picked up a nice color scheme for my GSC but it turns out purple/blue/green isn't really smart when your bases and table are going to be green too!On one hand, it's not a big deal. They all are infiltrators, it's still a lovely choice plus I'm super lazy. On the other hand... fuck me man.Any vivid and matching color I could repaint the green suits with? If I ever bother.
>>94744243Paint the base rims black and highlight greens with slightly more yellowish green?
>>94744243Maybe just flock the ground?It's easy enough to create a flexible sheet if that's what you need. Plenty of tutorials for it around.Reminded me of these either way.
Is Rogue Trader worth having a go with? I see a fair number of grognard youtubers who are into 40K 2nd edition, but I don't know of anyone who lives off RT nostalgia.
>>94747086Worth a go? Yeah.Now a worthwhile question to ask following that to explain the why of what you see: Is it as good as 2nd? Eh it can be. With work. It's certainly not as accessible. With 2nd you know where you are because it's a 'complete' system, you get your main rules, your expansion, your codex or two (and your sheet of fixes or even just your Battle Bible) and you're good. RT though... RT shifts and changes and isn't easy to interface with like that. No codex books to get. Army lists spread across lots of different stuff. Works in odd ways. Many rules updates and options spread across things. You gotta pick and choose which RT you're playing.
>>94731142Was turning Veterans from fancier Tactical Marines to Sternguards/Vanguards a good idea in the long run?
>>94744514>>94746286Well fellas we're talking quite the mini miniatures here.
>>94749265No, but only because it involved splitting the unit into two units for no reason. Veteran squads are supposed to be flexibility incarnate, the embodiment of the Space Marine way of war, the notion that they'd all troop along to the armour and say>Righto lads, we're gonna fight this one as Assault Marines, get the jump packs down off the rack there Brother Jimmy and no whinging from you Brother Brutus, you can play with your bolter on the firing range at Gunprayer tomorrowis dumb. They should all have a basic bolter, BP, chainsword, 'nades loadout and any individual Veteran should be able to swap out to whatever weapons they fancy.
>>94752530*to the armoury
Answer me this grog, was it just a fever dream or did Games Workshops EVER sell pre-painted space marines in the stores decades ago?
>>94749265Nah, as much as I like using Sternguards, they shouldve just been normal Veterans.If you really wanted the special rule Sternguards and Vanguards have, you couldve just made it a squad upgrade or something. Besides, half the reason to take them is their equipment and that can be accomplished if you just gave the Veterans unit access to that equipment.
>>94749265Awesome minis but no they ultimately helped fuck up Chapter flavor. Not as badly as Primaris but still noticeable. Here's how it probably should have gone after 4th>Let Vets (and variants like Sword Brethren) take Combi guns & Storm Bolters like Sternguard>Give the VanVet options to Blood Angels Assault Vets
You don't have to tell me who but does anyone know if there are recasts of the metal 2nd ed assault marines and bikers?
>>94753976Fever dream.>>94756356The go-to metal guy I know doesn't have either. There might be a scan of them somewhere but who knows?
>>94749265They are fine, if anything they offer more options than the actual vets had access too. Veterans from 3rd and 4th were just not veteran enough feeling. And I always thought it was lame that you couldn't take vets on bikes, or veteran devastators. Though my preferred solution is to have veterans as a generic upgrade you can tack onto any of the standard infantry choices.
>>94739270Alright please understand I know nothing about 2nd ed. But I looked through your faction special rules, and here are my thoughts.>NecronsThe fact that lords only get one chance to reanimate, but everything else gets to try over and over feels weird. Call the ancient machines rule Phase Out cause it's cool.>The C'tan are enigmatic gods long since shattered by the forces of the NecrontyrNu lore is gay.No Scorpeks or Reanimators or Doom stalkers? Those are some of the coolest minis!>Immune to Psychology>Necrons don’t suffer panic or fear in the same way as other races, but they can become lost in a protocolic state loop, stuck in a erroneous pragmatic function improperly interpreting sensory data bla bla bla>immune to poison>Necrons are largely mechanical bla bla normal poisons bla bla in practice, bla bla adjustments to counter the Necrons’ defensesPersonally I wouldnt change this from 3rd ed.>Dark EldarSo do the poisoned weapons offer no to wound benefit against normal targets? Only those poisoned from the last round?>If it is lower than the model's toughnessDid you mean higher than?>Roll a d6 for each poisoned wound sustained at the start of the next turn bla bla until the end of the turn>Against poisoned models, weapons with agonizing poison will automatically wound on a 3+I think you have a conflict, as the poison has been stated to have ended before you (the dark eldar player) will have gotten to your following shooting phase. I think you mean until the end of the following turn.>combat drugs missing?I couldnt find them.>TyranidsNo synapse stuff? I am confused
>>94749265Yes it was good idea.Vet squad were just +1Ld tactical squad that could pay for +1ABoth 5+ed vest are +1Ld+1A with sternguard having option to get combi guns alongside 2 special/heavy weapons, while vanguard have jump packs and all melee weapons they want. They feel like elite unit, instead of better Ld tacticals. Vanguards should get option for bikes to represent something like White Scars first company.
>>94758132>NecronsYeah, I've been back and forth on the Necrons whether to use nu-lore or old lore specifically because there are certain nulore models I think work better.Skorkepkhs are basline destroyer cultists. I have consolidated all three types into one unit because I think it might be neat that they are war gear. Same thing happened with Pariahs and Triarch Praetorians being war gear for Lychguard.As for Immune to Psychology, I just used the USR they have for it anyway.>Dark EldarYeah, the poison is only active from the next turn onwards (Unless you have the agonizer then it is on effect on hit) because I didn't want to encroach on the utility of the imperium poison weapons and thought a poison that persists inbetween battle rounds that weakens targets more and more over time could be neat and fluffy.No, you read correctly, lower than, specifically for the reason stated that Dark Eldar love to bring the high and mighty down more than your weaker models like grots to feed into their sadistic nature.Thanks for catching that mistake.Combat drugs is a standard war gear that can be taken by character models in 2nd edition, which is why the Hekatrix in the Wyches squad has a rule to share it with the others.>TyranidsSynapse was Hive Mind back in 2nd edition and was huge.
>>94758132>>94758270Oh and Reanimators and Doomstalkers are there, page 32 and 33.
A friendly regular at the LGS is celebrating his birthday soon. He's been an oldhammer fan for a long time and played the oldhammer games in their prime too. He's also a good friendHow are Warcolours' Nostalgia paints quality and accuracy wise?And what are the "must haves" from that paint line? I did some reading and flesh wash is apparently really liked behind Goblin green.
>>94737954don't pull the oldfag card you po-faced fraud, 4chan and /tg/ used to be far more joyously stupidthe person engaging with this culture has nothing to prove, you on the other hand...if people bully you, and it seems to me like they don't, even though they should, it's because you stick out like a sore thumb because you write like a dim wannabe teachers pet trying too hard to impress their english teacheryou're clearly autistic, and not a fun one, but an annoying pretentious retard with a superiority complex
>>94759882If I were getting colours from the old paint range it'd be things that I think were particularly of their... feel. Get purple, blues, greens, the metallics and the washes. Those washes and metallics I think are what really characterise those old paints. I'm still dipping into some vintage '96-'97 pots of paint now and again for use (damn things still work after all) but to get that classic look you'll want to follow method more than specific colours; that is working in the white undercoat, layering, a little bit of drybrushing, and using those classic washes. Definitely dig out the old painting guides and refamiliarize yourself with the methods and why they were used if you're trying to be accurate. They'll get you further than paint formulas by far.
>>94759882Have you considered the Coat D'arms range? They used to manufacture all the 90s era paints for GW and a lot of them just haven't changed from that era. https://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/collections/coat-darms-paints
>>94736374Everything good gets ruined in the end. Be happy it happened.
Tiny blue boys
>>94762848>Get purple, blues, greens, the metallics and the washesThank you.>>94765522I've heard of Coat D'arms. I am unsure about the quality of the paints from research and given that Blackhat has retired and sold the paints to battlezoneSource: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=579999But I am considering Coat D'arms because they will break my wallet less than ordering WarColours Nostalgia 94 paints though so I am happy there. But really are the Coat D'arms paints high quality coverage wise? Anybody able to confirm this with pics of their paints and maybe some minis painted with them, please?
>>94766086Gorgeous ladI've got a random pile myself that I picked up for pennies. Annoyingly noy many heavy weapons as they're mostly 1st ed Epic Space Marine-era plastics. Might have to get some printed.
Hi GrogsJust curious on old tabletop WHF units. What was Arbaal like historically on the tabletop in terms of his role, effectiveness etc?Particularly 5th (Champions of Chaos) and 6th I am curious about. I know in 5th he could not be a general but wondering if anyone used him here.
>>94767411For reference his 5th ed rules.
Based big brother:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqyhDjd5i_o
>>94752530Are you retarded? The basic veteran kit should be able to take jump packs to showcase that flexibility and mastery. You're describing them as being inherently inflexible by limiting what wargear they would use and have access to
>>94754736Holy fuck what a horrible take.
Honestly? A big chunk of creating Sternguard in the first place seems to have been GW looking for a way to replace the mechanics of Deathwatch honors while doing the usual entry inflation for a new codex. Fits with the ongoing mission to take away conversion opportunities at the time. Also with them trying to push MuH rOle ProTecTiOn by splitting single entries for flexible units you can create from a basic squad with, into several less-flexible distinct squads that all mysteriously have their own box.
>>94771183>Also with them trying to push MuH rOle ProTecTiOn by splitting single entries for flexible units you can create from a basic squad with, into several less-flexible distinct squads that all mysteriously have their own box.But anon, Sternguards are way more flexible than old vets and have way more options. Vanguards are 100% new unit because you just cousln't take jump packs on your vets. Only thing sternguards got from Deathwatch was special ammo.
>>94731142Do you think there's a market for expertly cleaned rescue minis? Even if there are a lot of people who are wizards with dettol, there's probably just as many who are intimidated with old lots of minis with globbed-on paint jobs, right?I wish everyone who consoomed oldhammer had the skills to restore minis but I doubt that's the case.
>>94771348How would you price such service? I cant imagine anyone wanting to pay taxes and postages twice on top off some service fee.
>>94770259Where did I say they shouldn't be allowed jump packs, Captain Retardo? I said they should have a flexible basic loadout and then be able to take other options as upgrades, rather than being divided into two strictly divided monopurpose squads.
